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thanos all the way no challenge

Thanos

just knowing who thanos is will automatically make gladiators confidence spiral downwards....thanos will crush him...

They were in the same prison, with the Fallen One, but surprisingly there was no scuffle between the two of them.

k thnx. i needed to clear that battle up. I kept on wondering and wondering but i never thought of who would actually win

Thanos wins , he is near skyfather

Ya. I had thought that Gladiator was bigger but i think he deferrers to Thanos. Hell even Galactus interacts with Thanos.

Thanos easily

It should have been Gladiator & Superman vs Thanos

would you have high confidence fighting with a mofo like superman?

Thanos. But not THAT easily. Thanos wins, sure, but a well written Gladiator can and will hold his own for a while.

After that, he'll bite the dust.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Thanos. But not THAT easily. Thanos wins, sure, but a well written Gladiator can and will hold his own for a while.

After that, he'll bite the dust. how??? Gladiator is already afraid of him

Thanos wins. fast and easily.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Thanos. But not THAT easily. Thanos wins, sure, but a well written Gladiator can and will hold his own for a while.

After that, he'll bite the dust.

i actually agree with this. he'd put up a fight for a bit before he went down.

Originally posted by leonidas
i actually agree with this. he'd put up a fight for a bit before he went down. how when hes already scared?

Originally posted by King KAM
how when hes already scared? What makes you think he's scared? I've never heard of him being scared of Thanos.

And he won't simply lose all confidence at the mention of Thanos' name. Gladiator has NEVER lost confidence when facing an opponent as strong or stronger than himself.

Anyway, Thanos wins. Kallark could put up a decent fight though.

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
What makes you think he's scared? I've never heard of him being scared of Thanos.

And he won't simply lose all confidence at the mention of Thanos' name. Gladiator has NEVER lost confidence when facing an opponent as strong or stronger than himself.

Anyway, Thanos wins. Kallark could put up a decent fight though. he knows that Thanos is far his superior, who is confident when fighting someone they know can kick their ass?????


nobody.

Originally posted by King KAM
he knows that Thanos is far his superior, who is confident when fighting someone they know can kick their ass?????


nobody. He also knew the same thing about Tyrant. DIdn't lose confidence in the least then.

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
What makes you think he's scared? I've never heard of him being scared of Thanos.

And he won't simply lose all confidence at the mention of Thanos' name. Gladiator has NEVER lost confidence when facing an opponent as strong or stronger than himself.

Gladiator got pretty scared when he fought Gambit.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/avalonofthewind/gambit5.jpg

Originally posted by StyleTime
Gladiator got pretty scared when he fought Gambit.

Not really...

And he was being mind-controlled..

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
Not really...

And he was being mind-controlled..
I was joking. (notice the smiley)

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
He also knew the same thing about Tyrant. DIdn't lose confidence in the least then. either way glads goes down hard aquaboy

Originally posted by StyleTime
I was joking. (notice the smiley) Oh god no. I've become a fanboy who reacts to everything anyone sais. =0

Somone kill me now!

Originally posted by King KAM
either way glads goes down hard aquaboy Agreed, uhh... Thanosboy...

*shrugs*

Glads would get scared at the mere sight of Thanos and fly off. He should be put against guys more on his level, like Cyclops.

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
Agreed, uhh... Thanosboy...

*shrugs* dont make me show u the comics bible again

Originally posted by King KAM
dont make me show u the comics bible again Oh, but it just keeps getting funnier everytime. How can i resist.

Gladiator is over-rated.....Thanos would stomp him.

Originally posted by Ex11B
Gladiator is over-rated.....Thanos would stomp him. HALLEJLUYA!!!!

Originally posted by King KAM
HALLEJLUYA!!!!

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
Oh god no. I've become a fanboy who reacts to everything anyone sais. =0

Somone kill me now!




Originally posted by The Ion
Glads would get scared at the mere sight of Thanos and fly off. He should be put against guys more on his level, like Cyclops.


If Gladiator read the disses on this thread, I think WE could have a shot at taking him.

Gladiator was punked by tyrant and got captured
Thanos put up a fight though really downhill. He escaped and manage to piss T. off

Going with Thanos 8-9/10.

Thanos 6/10

If Gladiator fights like he did against Supreme, he'll be able to win some.

It all depends
If gladiator has full confidence like when he claims he flys through stars and all that stuff then he has a good chance

if thanos has prep time then he will prolly take it though

Originally posted by dvampire
Thanos 6/10

If Gladiator fights like he did against Supreme, he'll be able to win some. nah, Thanos will take them both 10/10Originally posted by Fieldy69
It all depends
If gladiator has full confidence like when he claims he flys through stars and all that stuff then he has a good chance

if thanos has prep time then he will prolly take it though shuddup

Originally posted by King KAM
nah, Thanos will take them both 10/10 shuddup

Thanos 6/10

If Gladiator fights like he did against Supreme, he'll be able to win some.

Thanos would punk his ass.

Couldn't Gladiator hit Thanos at FTL speeds a million times before Thanos had a chance to react since Thanos cant speedblitz but Gladiator can?

Nah Thanos would smack him out of the sky. Hes reacted to Surfer traveling at lightspeed and has god-like reflexes.

Originally posted by Wally West
Nah Thanos would smack him out of the sky. Hes reacted to Surfer traveling at lightspeed and has god-like reflexes.

When did he react to Surfer traveling at lightspeed? Don't tell me when Surfer tried to grab the IG, because it never said he went at lightspeed.

Originally posted by demigawd
When did he react to Surfer traveling at lightspeed? Don't tell me when Surfer tried to grab the IG, because it never said he went at lightspeed.

To be fair if Surfer was going to grab the IG in an attempt to prevent Thanos from unleashing universal destruction, its safe to assme that he'd be going as fast as he could. But yeah nothings conclusively stated with regards to the speed.

I don't have my copy of IG with me so perhaps someone else can confirm what it says but earlier it mentions Surfer and Warlock are something like a standard lightyear away from where Thanos is, and Surfer manages to travel that distance before Thanos has time to finish throwing a punch...

I'm not sure how far away they say Warlock and Surfer are, but either way Surfer is really moving when he goes for the gauntlet, regardless of if its lightspeed or not, and Thanos reacts, he isn't getting speedblitzed.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
To be fair if Surfer was going to grab the IG in an attempt to prevent Thanos from unleashing universal destruction, its safe to assme that he'd be going as fast as he could. But yeah nothings conclusively stated with regards to the speed.

True, but given Surfer's close proximity and the fact that he needs to accelerate and factor in a bit of PIS AND factor in the fact that it was more Surfer missing than anything and....that's about as conclusive proof of Thanos' superspeed as saying Batman has superspeed because he dodged Superman's heat vision.

I know this is a bit late but I checked IG last night and Warlock states he and Surfer are "a little more than a lightyear away from Thanos' current position". Surfer travels that distance in the time it takes Thanos to throw a punch, so 3 seconds tops, so I'm sure an estimate can be made about his speed in that scene...

Originally posted by demigawd
Couldn't Gladiator hit Thanos at FTL speeds a million times before Thanos had a chance to react since Thanos cant speedblitz but Gladiator can?

He should, Mar-vell was able to biltz him.

Originally posted by Wally West
I know this is a bit late but I checked IG last night and Warlock states he and Surfer are "a little more than a lightyear away from Thanos' current position". Surfer travels that distance in the time it takes Thanos to throw a punch, so 3 seconds tops, so I'm sure an estimate can be made about his speed in that scene...

Good call. But if that's the case, it's actually an even worse case against Thanos. If a speedblitzing opponent can travel a LIGHTYEAR in the time it takes for Thanos to throw a punch, then Thanos, realistically speaking, should have no chance.

All things considered, Thanos should lose to just about any FTL opponent with enough strength to injure Thanos. And most CL100+ characters have the strength to at least cause Thanos pain. Multiply that by thousands and thousands of attacks per second, and it makes a difficult case for Thanos.

Unless, of course, you're willing to throw speedblitzing out the window as a viable strategy.

Are you?

Originally posted by demigawd
Good call. But if that's the case, it's actually an even worse case against Thanos. If a speedblitzing opponent can travel a LIGHTYEAR in the time it takes for Thanos to throw a punch, then Thanos, realistically speaking, should have no chance.

All things considered, Thanos should lose to just about any FTL opponent with enough strength to injure Thanos. And most CL100+ characters have the strength to at least cause Thanos pain. Multiply that by thousands and thousands of attacks per second, and it makes a difficult case for Thanos.

Unless, of course, you're willing to throw speedblitzing out the window as a viable strategy.

Are you?

Yeah but the punch wasnt thrown at Silver Surfer he was engaged in battle with someone else so you cant read too much into that.

Plus Thanos engages FTL characters all the time and his reflexes have proved sufficient. He is after all an Eternal.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Yeah but the punch wasnt thrown at Silver Surfer he was engaged in battle with someone else so you cant read too much into that.

Plus Thanos engages FTL characters all the time and his reflexes have proved sufficient. He is after all an Eternal.

Why would he punch someone at less than full speed? And he's never shown any abilities to punch or react unusually fast. People are using that "feat" to support FTL reflexes, but if you give somebody a lightyear handicap, that's not much of a feat, is it?

Thanos engages FTL characters, but do they use FTL attacks against him? Nope. PIS.

Originally posted by demigawd
Why would he punch someone at less than full speed? And he's never shown any abilities to punch or react unusually fast. People are using that "feat" to support FTL reflexes, but if you give somebody a lightyear handicap, that's not much of a feat, is it?

Thanos engages FTL characters, but do they use FTL attacks against him? Nope. PIS.

How can you dismiss all the FTL characters multitude of combat showings against Thanos as PIS yet try and discredit Thanos based on one punch? It doesnt work out that way Demi.

He's fought many heralds and other FTL characters he has proven his ability to hold his own against such characters time and time again. This really isnt good enough.

Gots ta go. We'll continue this tomorrow. Make good use of your prep time son.

Originally posted by demigawd
Why would he punch someone at less than full speed? And he's never shown any abilities to punch or react unusually fast. People are using that "feat" to support FTL reflexes, but if you give somebody a lightyear handicap, that's not much of a feat, is it?

Thanos engages FTL characters, but do they use FTL attacks against him? Nope. PIS.

1. I'm sure you go all out when you're smashing ants, right? Full speed punches left and right. Full force smashes with your foot.

Cap is less than an ant relative to thanos, even WITHOUT the infinity gauntlet... why WOULD he go full speed? You use the force that's necessary. You don't shoot an ICBM to fight a squirrel. That doesn't mean you can't shoot an icbm. That means it would be stupid and overkill to do so.

2. When someone travels a light year in an instant, it is impossible to react to unless you have FTL reflexes. A lightyear is not a handicap when you're traveling at speeds that surfer travels. That's like saying one boxer has a "handicap" when dodging because the other boxer threw a punch from a foot away. (except the surfer travels a lightyear faster than the boxer extends his hand a foot)

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
How can you dismiss all the FTL characters multitude of combat showings against Thanos as PIS yet try and discredit Thanos based on one punch? It doesnt work out that way Demi.


You got it backwards, GS. I'm not TRYING to discredit Thanos based on one punch. Rather, someone used that "feat" as an example of Thanos having FTL reflexes, and I just pointed out the dubiousness of it. It's not a particularly good showing of character A's speed when character B is able to move a lightyear in the span of time it takes character A to throw a punch. Just the opposite.



Wrong. When Thanos has a single showing of reacting against FTL attacks, then I'll accept that he has the ability to do it. As it stands, Thanos got speedblitzed by Captain Marvel (see scan on previous page), and punched so slowly that Surfer was able to travel a lightyear in less time.

Doesn't look good for Thanos against Superman.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
How can you dismiss all the FTL characters multitude of combat showings against Thanos as PIS yet try and discredit Thanos based on one punch? It doesnt work out that way Demi.

He's fought many heralds and other FTL characters he has proven his ability to hold his own against such characters time and time again. This really isnt good enough.

you BOTH are right. he HAS fought many ftl characters and been successful. based on that, the only conclusion you can come to is that he is capable of handling charater's with that level of speed.

but demi's point is well taken. an example is his battle with runner who completely owned thanos to the point where thanos couldn't even hit him. BUT runner did have the gem, so that's a special case i suppose.

we could square it away by allowing for heightened senses on thanos's part, a type of cosmic awareness that enables him to see and deal with ftl opponents. i see no other way to explain away the fact that he has successfully battled all these characters, and because there have been so many, i'm not willing to attribute PIS to all of them.

Originally posted by slade10
1. I'm sure you go all out when you're smashing ants, right? Full speed punches left and right. Full force smashes with your foot.

Cap is less than an ant relative to thanos, even WITHOUT the infinity gauntlet... why WOULD he go full speed? You use the force that's necessary. You don't shoot an ICBM to fight a squirrel. That doesn't mean you can't shoot an icbm. That means it would be stupid and overkill to do so.

2. When someone travels a light year in an instant, it is impossible to react to unless you have FTL reflexes. A lightyear is not a handicap when you're traveling at speeds that surfer travels. That's like saying one boxer has a "handicap" when dodging because the other boxer threw a punch from a foot away. (except the surfer travels a lightyear faster than the boxer extends his hand a foot)

Granted, but when dealing with limited showings against FTL and lightspeed, you take the evidence at hand. what little evidence exists pretty squarely supports Thanos having no ability to react to FTL, or lightspeed attacks. Like I said to GS before he fled, I'm not using that example as proof that Thanos doesn't have lightspeed reflexes....I'm simply showing that it's NOT an example that he does, as people have stated by bringing this example up in the first place.

Originally posted by leonidas


but demi's point is well taken. an example is his battle with runner who completely owned thanos to the point where thanos couldn't even hit him. BUT runner did have the gem, so that's a special case i suppose.



I don't recall him TRYING to hit runner. He just turned him into a baby and teleported away.

Runner did say that he was too fast for thanos. But runner says that to everyone...

According to MARVEL thanos is JUST as fast as gladiator.....

Originally posted by demigawd
You got it backwards, GS. I'm not TRYING to discredit Thanos based on one punch. Rather, someone used that "feat" as an example of Thanos having FTL reflexes, and I just pointed out the dubiousness of it. It's not a particularly good showing of character A's speed when character B is able to move a lightyear in the span of time it takes character A to throw a punch. Just the opposite.



Wrong. When Thanos has a single showing of reacting against FTL attacks, then I'll accept that he has the ability to do it. As it stands, Thanos got speedblitzed by Captain Marvel (see scan on previous page), and punched so slowly that Surfer was able to travel a lightyear in less time.

Doesn't look good for Thanos against Superman. Your a known thanos hater, and an even more known IDIOT, anything you say can be discredited considering you agreed with a man who said that Silver Surfer was more powerful than galactus.

no, thanos tried eyeblasting him and couldn't even come close. runner was literally toying with thanos. again, he had the gem so that may be a special case.

i agree with the underlying premise demi is establishing. i just believe thanos MUST be able to react ftl based on who he has defeated. to say ss could beat him by moving ftl implies that every one of their fights was pis. it happened too many times for me to say that. the only logical alternative is to say thanos CAN react at ftl and handle ftl opponents.

Originally posted by leonidas
you BOTH are right. he HAS fought many ftl characters and been successful. based on that, the only conclusion you can come to is that he is capable of handling charater's with that level of speed.


Not if the characters have never used any FTL attacks, or even lightspeed attacks. If they don't use it, then you can't say he can react to it.

Batman has dodged heat vision before. He's punched Superman before, who has lightspeed reactions. Can we conclude, then, that Batman has lightspeed reactions? Of course not. The only thing we can conclude is that Superman CHOSE not to make use of his speed.

Ditto with Surfer. When we see Surfer dodging left and right and showing fists and blasts flying from all directions against Thanos and Thanos doing a highspeed punch at precisely where Surfer is, THEN we can conclude that he can deal with FTL attacks. Otherwise, the only conclusion we can accurately make is that those characters didn't attack Thanos at highspeed, for whatever strategic reasons.



But then there's also Captain Marvel, who speedblitzed Thanos and Thanos was unable to react. Hell, even Spider-Man dodged Thanos! SPIDER-MAN.

Whenever speed has been used against Thanos (and there aren't many times), Thanos has been found wanting.



It doesn't have to be PIS. It's just as easily CIS, or strategic decisions that backfire, or simple pride. Surfer is a pacifist, he's not a warrior. And he's shown lesser inclination to use his speed than Superman, who IS a warrior and HAS shown speed feat almost every issue.

Originally posted by slade10
I don't recall him TRYING to hit runner. He just turned him into a baby and teleported away.

Runner did say that he was too fast for thanos. But runner says that to everyone...

Because it's true.

Originally posted by King KAM
According to MARVEL thanos is JUST as fast as gladiator.....

Flight speed. Not combat speed, and not agility. Only the latter two mean a damn thing in a fight.

Originally posted by King KAM
Your a known thanos hater, and an even more known IDIOT, anything you say can be discredited considering you agreed with a man who said that Silver Surfer was more powerful than galactus.



hmm, insult one JLAKMC member, insult us all!

Originally posted by King KAM
Your a known thanos hater, and an even more known IDIOT, anything you say can be discredited considering you agreed with a man who said that Silver Surfer was more powerful than galactus.

I'm a known Thanos hater? That's news to me. Prior to today, I don't think I've ever argued AGAINST Thanos. And I have a very specific reason for doing so that anybody who knows anything about me (meaning not you) already knows.

And when have I EVER said that Surfer is more powerful than Galactus?????? Even as Keeper, he could barely defeat a weakened Galactus. WTF are you talking about?

I think you should just sit this one out and let the adults talk, sonny.

Originally posted by demigawd
Not if the characters have never used any FTL attacks, or even lightspeed attacks. If they don't use it, then you can't say he can react to it.

Batman has dodged heat vision before. He's punched Superman before, who has lightspeed reactions. Can we conclude, then, that Batman has lightspeed reactions? Of course not. The only thing we can conclude is that Superman CHOSE not to make use of his speed.

Ditto with Surfer. When we see Surfer dodging left and right and showing fists and blasts flying from all directions against Thanos and Thanos doing a highspeed punch at precisely where Surfer is, THEN we can conclude that he can deal with FTL attacks. Otherwise, the only conclusion we can accurately make is that those characters didn't attack Thanos at highspeed, for whatever strategic reasons.



But then there's also Captain Marvel, who speedblitzed Thanos and Thanos was unable to react. Hell, even Spider-Man dodged Thanos! SPIDER-MAN.

Whenever speed has been used against Thanos (and there aren't many times), Thanos has been found wanting.



It doesn't have to be PIS. It's just as easily CIS, or strategic decisions that backfire, or simple pride. Surfer is a pacifist, he's not a warrior. And he's shown lesser inclination to use his speed than Superman, who IS a warrior and HAS shown speed feat almost every issue.

the batman example is a bad one -- if supes used ftl speed against bats he would kill him instantly. he'd NEVER use it. ss has has such worries against thanos.

the cm attack and spidey attack happened before his upgrade, no? even the ig stuff could be explained away (if poorly) as saying thanos wasn't really going all out cuz he wanted a 'challenge'.

the problem i have with what you're saying is that it can be extended beyond all reason. so odin is incapable of dealing with ftl attacks? no one has been shown to use them on him. galactus too? inbetweener? phoenix? eternity? wielder of the hotu? just because it HASN'T happened, doens't make it true.

to use one of your own -- i've never seen thanos bake a pie either, so that means he can't?

we can deduce from who he is and his power level as well as what he's done that ftl atacks can be dealt with by thanos. again, to say they can't calls into question too many feats, and i'll not attribute pis/cis to all of them. i agree with you that there HAVE been some inconsistencies, but his consistent feats outweigh them.

Originally posted by leonidas
no, thanos tried eyeblasting him and couldn't even come close. runner was literally toying with thanos. again, he had the gem so that may be a special case.


You're right. I just checked it. He does try to eye blast him.

But thanos is REACTING to runner while he's showing off his speed with the gem. He should not even be able to SEE him, unless he has sensory perception faster than light.

And you need to distinguish two things: 1. missing; and 2. being incapable of hitting. Scorpion and every one of spiderman's enemies misses him frequently. That does not mean they cannot hit him, or that they are in a qualitatively different speed league. That just means spiderman has a speed advantage. (and EVERYONE has a speed disadvantage to a space gem wielder)

PS I can't see the marvell example, but IIRC he wasn't speed blitzed as much as he was surprised. I may get hit in the back of the head without reacting to it. That doesn't mean I don't have the speed/reactions to avoid it; it just means I was surprised.

There has never been a fight, afaik, where thanos has trouble detecting someone moving at high speeds. The closest is the runner fight, but thanos clearly perceives runner while he's moving, which is a feat in itself.

Originally posted by demigawd
I'm a known Thanos hater? That's news to me. Prior to today, I don't think I've ever argued AGAINST Thanos. And I have a very specific reason for doing so that anybody who knows anything about me (meaning not you) already knows.

And when have I EVER said that Surfer is more powerful than Galactus?????? Even as Keeper, he could barely defeat a weakened Galactus. WTF are you talking about?

I think you should just sit this one out and let the adults talk, sonny. You agreed with Leonheart on the Franklin Richards versus galactus thread, where HE stated Surfer was even more powerful than galactus


How bout you sit this one out, Daughter

Originally posted by demigawd
Flight speed. Not combat speed, and not agility. Only the latter two mean a damn thing in a fight. Thanos cant fly....

Originally posted by leonidas


hmm, insult one JLAKMC member, insult us all! F'uck the JlaKm....wutever the eff its called, sounds like some effing girl scout troop to me.

Originally posted by slade10
There has never been a fight, afaik, where thanos has trouble detecting someone moving at high speeds. The closest is the runner fight, but thanos clearly perceives runner while he's moving, which is a feat in itself.

Even if he could see Runner (Runner was playing around btw), it doesn't mean he's fast enough to do anything about. He was shown not be able to keep up with Cap, Mar-Vell, and Spiderman, Thanos has no Superspeed.

Originally posted by King KAM
Thanos cant fly....

Which puts him at a even bigger disadvantage.

Originally posted by King KAM
You agreed with Leonheart on the Franklin Richards versus galactus thread, where HE stated Surfer was even more powerful than galactus


How bout you sit this one out, Daughter

Surfer isn't close to being more powerful than the person that gave him his powers.

Originally posted by leonidas
the batman example is a bad one -- if supes used ftl speed against bats he would kill him instantly. he'd NEVER use it. ss has has such worries against thanos.


But that's my point - Superman CHOSE not to use FTL against Batman. Likewise, Surfer CHOSE not to use FTL attacks against Thanos? Why? Perhaps because it's taxing? Because it's imprecise? Because it's more difficult for Surfer to do? Because he's a dirty commie?

In truth, Surfer has very limited combat feats at FTL. It just doesn't seem to come as naturally to him as it does to Superman.

In battle situations, Surfer uses his speed as an advantage maybe 3/10 times. Superman does it 7/10 times.

That's a marked difference. Wouldn't you agree?



Where was it stated that Thanos' speed increased? We've SEEN increases in strength, durability, and energy projection. We've seen nothing in the speed department.



But here's the problem. If a character is known for strength, and has hundreds of strength feats, then when calculating averages, you have license to dismiss both unusually high showings and unusually low showings. You don't have license to dismiss low speed showings when there are only a handful in the first place. Every one of them has to count, otherwise you have nothing to go on.

And of the limited speed situations Thanos was in, in every one of them, he's shown an inability to deal with it.




But logically speaking, in order to assume the presence of something, you have to show evidence of its presence. You can't just give a character the benefit of the doubt because you're impressed.

Let's take Odin as an example. Does Odin have an inability to deal with FTL? By default...YES. But his power level is so high that he would be unaffected by ANYBODY known for their speed long enough to simply destroy them any number of ways that just negate their speed.

Additionally, it's well known that his powers are magical in nature, and it gives him the ability to alter his form or use his powers in ways that are without limit.

None of that applies to Thanos.

G was a bad example - Surfer has actually gotten his licks on Galactus by outmaneuvering him. G's durability was just so insanely high that it didn't matter. Again, against Thanos, that doesn't apply. Superman (wait, this isn't even the Superman thread)...Gladiator is close enough in raw strength to Thanos that it doesn't apply.



Very clever, but it backfires. Baking a pie simply requires basic movement and motor abilities and a basic level of intelligence that we know Thanos has. Superspeed is a very specific ability.

Are we going to start assuming that Thanos has the ability to time travel because he's never shown the ability to not time travel? How about the ability to create life? It opens up a huge can of worms if we start granting powers to people.



Except for one glaring problem....he HAS no feats showing the ability to deal with FTL attacks. None. 100% of his encounters with FTL attacks have shown that he needs other methods to deal with them.

You simply can't ignore that kind of ignoble record.

Originally posted by King KAM
You agreed with Leonheart on the Franklin Richards versus galactus thread, where HE stated Surfer was even more powerful than galactus


How bout you sit this one out, Daughter


i NEVER said that surfer was more powerful than galactus, i said some stupid PIS can be INTERPRETED that way just like YOU were interpreting ur argument THAT way, n i was tryin to prove the point that if we go by UR logic, surfer can be shown to be more powerful than galactus, which is a RIDICULOUS idea.

btw, if any1 hasnt notcied, on the official site, in bios, thanos has max speed on the power scale, equal to genis, n thas warp speed, same with thor.

Originally posted by King KAM
You agreed with Leonheart on the Franklin Richards versus galactus thread, where HE stated Surfer was even more powerful than galactus


How bout you sit this one out, Daughter

No I didn't. Coming from someone who said that Thanos beat Oblivion, an abstract of the universe and who pulled a weight for Thanos ship out of your ass, you have 0 credibility to recount something accurately.

I agreed with him that Franklin Richards could beat Galactus. Don't extrapolate...that's what usually gets you in trouble in debates.

Now shoo.

Originally posted by King KAM
Thanos cant fly....

hahaha....that's even worse, isn't it? He uses his chair for flight, similar to Surfer's board.

I think you'd be better suited for a Wolverine thread. This is clearly out of your league. Begone.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
btw, if any1 hasnt notcied, on the official site, in bios, thanos has max speed on the power scale, equal to genis, n thas warp speed, same with thor.

But speed on the Marvel stats refer to travel speed, not necessarily combat speed. It's a limitation of their power gradings.

Unless you're saying that Thor has warp speed combat abilities??? Despite being dodged all over the place by Spider-Man

Originally posted by leonheartmm
btw, if any1 hasnt notcied, on the official site, in bios, thanos has max speed on the power scale, equal to genis, n thas warp speed, same with thor.

People have pointed this out repeatedly. The bio also states that he has "near godlike" reflexes and agility.

But for whatever reason, some people on these boards insist on saying that he doesn't have these capabilities. APparently because he missed runner with an eyeblast.

I repeat: there have been exactly zero instances, AFAIK, where thanos has had trouble detecting someone moving at FTL speed. The best case for critics is the runner fight, in which thanos detects runner moving with the space gem, and misses him with a few eyeblasts.

If missing someone means that a character does not have requisite speed to fight him, then spider-man is too slow for rhino.

The Marvel bio doesn't hold a lot of weight to me. It lists all kinds of inconsistent entries. Feats and feats alone count. And in every case, where Thanos has been encountered with FTL speeds, or any kind of abnormally high speeds, he's performed unimpressively.

And even if he could perceive FTL speeds...he'd have to be able to MOVE that fast to defend himself. So all that means is that Thanos can perceive Gladiator punching him a thousand times before his punch hits empty air.

Originally posted by demigawd
But that's my point - Superman CHOSE not to use FTL against Batman. Likewise, Surfer CHOSE not to use FTL attacks against Thanos? Why? Perhaps because it's taxing? Because it's imprecise? Because it's more difficult for Surfer to do? Because he's a dirty commie?

difference being if supes did he'd KILL bats -- something he'd never do so there is a reason he doesn't. fighting mongul was another matter entirely. ss using his speed won't 'kill' thanos. that's the difference.



i won't even be able to begin debating this with you. ss has shown often enough that he can attack and fight at those speeds.



not enough to say that is then makes sense for him to NOT use it when an opponent has beat him down repeatedly. that requires pis/cis labels that i'll not grant.



again, you're asking for too much to be verified. we can both play that game and extend it beyond reason. you're saying thanos beats ss by pis or because ss is a moron. he must also have beaten the fallen one for the same reason then. and the other heralds. it leads to too much. are all these instances pis/cis? again, he consistently beats them -- badly. how can something that happens consistently be cis/pis? why not label cm's attack or the others as pis/cis on thanos's part? to me that stands more to reason.



accept that he beats all these cosmics.
but they didn't use their speed!
why?
pis/cis.
everytime?!
then they were morons!
everytime!?

the argument doesn't do it for me, demi.



g was a good example -- as keeper ss tried liek hell to run away from an ANGRY g -- he wasn't fast ENOUGH! when g finally gets po'd, he tags ss whenever he wants to. speed is irrelevent.



how very clever of you to tell me that it was clever to use your own words!!



no feats accept other than consistent wins over speedsters.



and nor can you ignore his even more consistent wins.

Originally posted by leonidas
difference being if supes did he'd KILL bats -- something he'd never do so there is a reason he doesn't. fighting mongul was another matter entirely. ss using his speed won't 'kill' thanos. that's the difference.


Superman was mind-controlled by Poison Ivy. He shot heat vision at Batman. If it hit Batman, Batman would have died. So he obviously didn't have a problem with trying to kill Batman.



Far less than half of his fights have Surfer showing combat speed feats (not to be confused with flying speed feats). In fact, I can only name one time specifically that I saw Surfer actually speedblitzing an opponent. I can think of several dozen on Superman's part.

Like I said in my post - Surfer uses combat speed maybe 3/10 fights. Superman 7/10. Do you dispute that? If so, on what grounds?



But we've seen these fights in its entirety. We KNOW whether or not superspeed is being used. They've never been used against Thanos. I'm not assuming superspeed wasn't used...I'm looking at it and SEEING that superspeed isn't being used. It wasn't shown using the usual superspeed graphics, it wasn't mentioned by either the characters or the captions, there was absolutely nothing to suggest superspeed was a remote thought. Why apply an attribute to a battle when we clearly know it's not there?

Surfer's track record is to not use speed in fights, even when it would behoove him. Name Surfer's last 10 fights and tell me in how many he's attempted to use agility/FTL speed attacks to his advantage? Name Superman's last 10 fights. The difference between Surfer and Superman is that Superman is inclined to use it to his advantage.

Another example. Gladiator (since this is whom the tread is about) has fought at 100x the speed of light. In order to keep up, Thor needed the Fantastic Four to build him a device. But at the same time, we know that Thor and Gladiator have fought without Thor needing a device. Are we to assume, then, that Thor has the ability to deal with 100x FTL attacks on his own?

No - the correct assumption is that Gladiator didn't use 100x FTL attacks on Thor. Why didn't he? Ask Gladiator.



Who said the fallen one had FTL reflexes? Or any of the other heralds? All we know is that SS has it, but he RARELY uses it. Out of hundreds of battles he's been in, I doubt you can name more than five in which he's ever shown any kind of superspeed attacks.

Can you?



Well, it's not a given that any of those characters you named have any kind of FTL attacks at all. Looking at their track records, I've never seen any of them ever speedblitz anybody.

The same can't be said of Superman.

Though I'll grant you that the waters are a bit murkier when it comes to Gladiator. But Marvel doesn't really place the same premium on speed that DC does. And that's to Thanos' disadvantage.



And when Thanos does the same thing against a fleeing or speeding Surfer, I'll be likewise impressed. He hasn't.



Who don't use speed attacks. Again, I'm not *assuming* that they're not using speed attacks...I'm going by the actual battles. We know when we're seeing speed feats and when we're not. We've never seen them in battles against Thanos. More importantly when we do (and we know when we do), we've seen Thanos unable to deal with it effectively

I'm not sure if this is a real debate or just trolling, given what you've posted in other threads, but anyways....

When have we seen thanos unable to deal with speed?

When he is surprised by mar-vell? When he misses runner?

If being surprised or missing something is an indication of inferior speed, then I am slower than a punching bag. I have missed a punching bag when I wasn't patying attention, and I have been surprised periodically by the way the bag moves.

If that is all the evidence you can cite in your support, then by similar logic:

inanimate objects > me

in speed. So I might as well give up trying to move, because I obviously won't get anywhere, if inanimate objects are faster than me. I have missed them, and I have been surprised by their movement. (And apparently superman and virtually every other speedster also do not have superspeed, since they have missed, and have been surprised, by slower beings. Marvel and DC have been wrong all along about their powers!)

The vast weight of evidence, and an authoritative statement by marvel itself, support the proposition that thanos has the requiste reflexes to fight FTL enemies. He has detected AND reacted in multilple instnaces to FTL speed movement, and he has never shown incapability to deal with speed, as such.

If you want to invent some other character, name him thanos, and publish your own series of comics, then fine. Until then, I go with marvel's statement over yours.

Originally posted by slade10
When have we seen thanos unable to deal with speed?


That Captain Marvel scan showed an inability to react to it. So did his fight with Runner. Even the fact that Surfer was able to fly a lightyear in the span of time it took Thanos to throw a punch doesn't shine a positive light on him.

Compare that to Wonder Woman sneak attacking Superman and Superman instantaneously reacting and catching her hand in their battle. THAT is reacting to superspeed.



And if you continue to miss the punching bag even when you are paying attention, it's because the punching bag is faster than you are.



More accurately:

punching bag's movement > your movement.

And if you're unable to hit a punching bag after multiple tries, then it is indeed an accurate statement.



The vast weight of evidence has shown no such thing. When has he successfully fought off a FTL attack? When has he successfully reacted to a FTL attack?

Slade has the ability to perceive lightspeed movements, and even the ability to react to them. But that doesn't mean he can keep up with Superman or Flash, just that he's able to perceive some of their movements.

Being able to see FTL motion and being able to fight against it or two very different things. Thanos has shown the former, but his track record against the latter is poor.



If I did invent a character named Thanos, I'd give him FTL speed movements so he wouldn't get owned by people like Superman...

The better question is....is Demigawd trolling?

<<Superman was mind-controlled by Poison Ivy. He shot heat vision at Batman. If it hit Batman, Batman would have died. So he obviously didn't have a problem with trying to kill Batman.>>

does heat vision move at ftl? for that matter, is batman 'faster' than the bullets he dodges all the time? again, not everything needs tobe or CAN be explained rationally. these ARE still comics and things can be shown for effect. pis? i don't think so.

<<Far less than half of his fights have Surfer showing combat speed feats (not to be confused with flying speed feats). In fact, I can only name one time specifically that I saw Surfer actually speedblitzing an opponent. I can think of several dozen on Superman's part.

Like I said in my post - Surfer uses combat speed maybe 3/10 fights. Superman 7/10. Do you dispute that? If so, on what grounds?>>

i don't dispute it at all. but the fact that he CAN attack at ftl and does at times if enough for me. means he could attack thanos and doesn't because:

a) he's a moron
b) pis/cis
c) he HAS attacked him at speeds and seen no good effect
d) knows that even if he did attack at ftl, thanos would deal with it

i like c and d, rather than attributing the reasons to a and c.

as far as the rest: you keep saying we haven't 'seen' them (ss/thanos) fighting at superspeed. couldn't i as easily claim they are both fighting at high speeds? it doesn't say they were fighting at 'regular speed' anywhere, so perhaps relative to each other it only appeared they weren't fighting at superspeed (as in the thor/glads fight you mentioned which also 'showed' no effects of either fighting at speed on reed's ship -- and it ws a SHIP they were on, not a device and glads was ON the ship as well -- how the whole device thing started i don't know.) i mean both ARE cosmially powered. why would they bother fighting at simple human speeds when neither is even human and FAR above??

once again -- i am not willing to say ss is a moron, or that it is all pis/cis. imo thanos can deal with ftl.

<<The better question is....is Demigawd trolling?>>

no, he just likes mixing it up with leo and gs.

a) he's a moron
b) pis/cis
c) he HAS attacked him at speeds and seen no good effect
d) knows that even if he did attack at ftl, thanos would deal with it

I disagree with C and D. Surfer has never biltzed Thanos. And why whould he not speedbiltz when he clearly has the speed advantage?

Originally posted by King KAM
F'uck the JlaKm....wutever the eff its called, sounds like some effing girl scout troop to me.

that's what anyone who's NOT part of the jlakmc says . . .

Originally posted by dvampire
a) he's a moron
b) pis/cis
c) he HAS attacked him at speeds and seen no good effect
d) knows that even if he did attack at ftl, thanos would deal with it

I disagree with C and D. Surfer has never biltzed Thanos. And why whould he not speedbiltz when he clearly has the speed advantage?

so you're saying all their fights are pis/cis OR ss's a moron. that's fine. demi's saying the same thing.

i disagree.

Originally posted by leonidas
<<Superman was mind-controlled by Poison Ivy. He shot heat vision at Batman. If it hit Batman, Batman would have died. So he obviously didn't have a problem with trying to kill Batman.>>

does heat vision move at ftl?


It was keeping up with Flash for awhile.



Aren't things not being explained rationally a form of PIS? Isn't Batman dodging machine gun fire, or Gambit deflecting bullets with his staff PIS for that very reason?

If so, you see it all the time. And that means PIS, in that sense, is widespread.

Likewise, if you know that a character is capable of doing something to make his life easier and he doesn't do it, is it better to assume that the art and the captions are all wrong, or that it just wasn't written into the plot?



But WHY is it enough for you? You're essentially taking a MINORITY of showings and applying them to a MAJORITY of circumstances. Why is that right or fair? Why is that a better option than simply saying that it doesn't come as naturally to certain characters as it does others?



But then you're attributing feats that weren't seen to a battle that was seen. You're essentially saying that we didn't see something that we did see. We saw this battles...we know that there weren't speed feats. Hell, in the fights between Surfer and Thanos, there weren't even any mid-battle cut scenes where you could even creatively insert some FTL action. We've seen the battles in its entirety. Surfer blasts Thanos ONCE. Thanos shakes it off and proceeds to beat Surfer to unconsciousness. There's nowhere there to add even creative license to account for superspeed. Surfer blasted Thanos one time, then panicked when he saw there was no effect.

So you have to make a choice, Leonidas. Either the artists and the captions and the dialogue all must be ignored, or you have to go with Surfer choosing not to use FTL attacks.



Because we've seen how Thanos reacts to the actual application of superspeed. And we've seen Surfer actually USE superspeed attacks on cosmics and we've seen the difference. And like I said above, looking at their battles, there really isn't anyplace to even creatively add superspeed license to it. And saying that all cosmic battles are superspeed is an even bigger stretch than saying that Surfer just chooses not to fight in superspeed at times. Especially when we know that Surfer's natural inclination is to not use superspeed in fights.



You make it sound like Surfer has fought Thanos dozens of times. They've only fought a few times...more than enough for CIS/PIS to cover it, especially when you examine Surfer's actual FTL attacking track record with any kind of scrutiny.

Originally posted by demigawd
It was keeping up with Flash for awhile.



Aren't things not being explained rationally a form of PIS? Isn't Batman dodging machine gun fire, or Gambit deflecting bullets with his staff PIS for that very reason?

If so, you see it all the time. And that means PIS, in that sense, is widespread.

Likewise, if you know that a character is capable of doing something to make his life easier and he doesn't do it, is it better to assume that the art and the captions are all wrong, or that it just wasn't written into the plot?

if you're willing to go to that extent than OF COURSE it is widespread. it is a comicbook after all. it's why this level of scrutiny always fails and we need to resort to cis/pis. but i prefer to save pis/cis labels for something . . . 'special'. bats always dodges bullets, so to see him do so is nothing special. he's dodged lasers, so dodging supes heat vision is not even all that special. flash was NOT moving at c when the vision nearly caught up to him, btw.



it's enough because the fact that he DOES at times use his speed tells me there must be a reason he's NOT using it, even if that reason needs to be inferred. i hate bios as well, but godlike reflexes can cover a lot of ground.



so again, we're left with WHY he's not using his speed. you say pis/cis or he's an idiot, i say uh-uh to both, becasue thanos has been too consistent in his dealings with cosmics for me to say that a simple ftl attack is something he couldn't deal with. whether they have been 'shown' attacking at the speed doesn't matter as much as the question WHY they aren't shown attacking at those speeds. i say it's because they know thanos could deal with it -- unless one of them as the space gem.



or c i can logically infer based on what i know of thanos and what i've seen him capable of and ASSUME he's capable of dealing with that speed. i could use the marvel bio for support, but i wouldn't. my own experience with thanos tells me all i need to know.



why a stretch? both ARE cosmic. both ARE non-human. both HAVE ftl reflexes. or maybe as i said they are fighting at normal speed cuz ss knows his speed wouldn't help him.



they've fought often enough and thanos has fought other heralds/cosmics often enough for me to feel safe in my assumption that ftl speed wouldn't make a difference against thanos.

Originally posted by leonidas
if you're willing to go to that extent than OF COURSE it is widespread. it is a comicbook after all. it's why this level of scrutiny always fails and we need to resort to cis/pis. but i prefer to save pis/cis labels for something . . . 'special'. bats always dodges bullets, so to see him do so is nothing special. he's dodged lasers, so dodging supes heat vision is not even all that special. flash was NOT moving at c when the vision nearly caught up to him, btw.


CIS/PIS should be saved for something "special" now? What are you, a chick talking about sex?

PIS is standard to be found at least once in every issue of every comic- you can't just dismiss it being a likely explanation just because it's not "special" enough for you, lol.



It covers too much ground, and that's the problem. All you're doing is speculating as to why he's not using his speed. I'm speculating too, and they're both worth crap. All that matters is that he's NOT using speed against Thanos. And as such, we don't know Thanos' ability to deal with it and as such we can't just assume that he can against an opponent where speed is an innate part of his battle strategy in EVERY issue.



You're basing your belief on the fact that Thanos had fought too many cosmics for him not to have FTL combat experience. But in Marvel...what combat speed feats have any of these cosmics shown? Where are the combat speed feats of Terrax, or Air Walker, or Thor, or Fallen One or anybody else? In truth, there's no evidence to support that ANYBODY Thanos has fought except Runner, Cap Marvel Silver Surfer has combat speed feats. And only two have specifically used combat speed feats against him.

And in BOTH of those cases, Thanos has been flummoxed by those speed feats. That has to count for something, Leo.

Remember, speed is only commonplace in DC. You rarely find it in Marvel, even among the cosmics.



That can't be right, because the "why" is subject to 100% speculation, until Surfer actually gives a reason.



Essentially, you're assuming Thanos fought a battle that was never shown or spoken of where everybody witnessed Thanos fighting someone who used a speed attack that failed miserably and from there, word got out that "Don't try any speed attacks...they don't work".

And from there, Surfer decided that since speed is useless against Thanos, he'd better just skip it altogether, and use an energy attack instead.

Which failed.

Again.

Did I about get that right?



Your own experience would tell you that Thanos has faced speed twice and been frustrated both times. He's been energy blasted dozens of times and been completely unphased by it.

Which is less effective?



And his energy blast worked really well.

This goes back to the fact that Surfer really isn't a warrior at heart. Surfer lost to Thor. Thor stalemated the Hulk. Hulk has trouble touching Spider-Man in fights. Logically speaking, speed would work beautifully against Thor, but Surfer never used it. Is that also because Surfer knows how ineffective it would be against Thor? Where is the line drawn with assumptions, especially when you're pitting them against the actual fights that we've seen ourselves?



That assumption would be safer if ANY Marvel cosmics have shown combat speed feats. Firelord has been out-maneuvered by the likes of Spider-Man.

<<CIS/PIS should be saved for something "special" now? What are you, a chick talking about sex?

PIS is standard to be found at least once in every issue of every comic- you can't just dismiss it being a likely explanation just because it's not "special" enough for you, lol.>>

cis occurs when characters act OUT OF CHARACTER. how do we determine what is IN character? by their consistent actions. bats dodging bullets is consistent if not rationally/real world feasible. it's not cis just because it couldn't happen in the REAL world. that's ridiculous.

<<That can't be right, because the "why" is subject to 100% speculation, until Surfer actually gives a reason.>>

but it's the reason we're questioning. you have your reasons why you say he doesn't use speed, i have mine. yours rely on trying to fit real world logic into a comic and because it dosn't fit calling it pis/cis. i'm not about to do that. ss does have cosmic awareness, as does cm. they would know full well thanos could answer their speed.

<<Essentially, you're assuming Thanos fought a battle that was never shown or spoken of where everybody witnessed Thanos fighting someone who used a speed attack that failed miserably and from there, word got out that "Don't try any speed attacks...they don't work".

And from there, Surfer decided that since speed is useless against Thanos, he'd better just skip it altogether, and use an energy attack instead.

Which failed.

Again.

Did I about get that right?>>

and you think that every cosmic just hasn't bothered attacking him with speed because . . . pis/cis? stupidity?

<<This goes back to the fact that Surfer really isn't a warrior at heart. Surfer lost to Thor. Thor stalemated the Hulk. Hulk has trouble touching Spider-Man in fights. Logically speaking, speed would work beautifully against Thor, but Surfer never used it. Is that also because Surfer knows how ineffective it would be against Thor? Where is the line drawn with assumptions, especially when you're pitting them against the actual fights that we've seen ourselves?>>

and if we don't assume/infer, we are forced to call everything pis/cis.

<<That assumption would be safer if ANY Marvel cosmics have shown combat speed feats. Firelord has been out-maneuvered by the likes of Spider-Man.>>

and we've come full circle. cuz they don't show it they don't have it. i don't believe that.

gotta roll. always fun.

Originally posted by leonidas
<<CIS/PIS should be saved for something "special" now? What are you, a chick talking about sex?

PIS is standard to be found at least once in every issue of every comic- you can't just dismiss it being a likely explanation just because it's not "special" enough for you, lol.>>

cis occurs when characters act OUT OF CHARACTER. how do we determine what is IN character? by their consistent actions. bats dodging bullets is consistent if not rationally/real world feasible. it's not cis just because it couldn't happen in the REAL world. that's ridiculous.


Batman dodging bullets has nothing to do with his character and everything to do with plot. When Batman is in a 10 x 12 room and an army of thugs with machine guys are shooting at him and he's dodging them all...it's PIS. Commonplace PIS, yes...but still PIS.



You don't get a free pass. It wasn't the reasoning we were questioning before - before you were trying to say that Thanos HAS dealt with lighspeed attacks, we just haven't see it. Then it was Surfer really WAS fighting Thanos with lightspeed attacks, but they're both so fast that it looked like normal speed.

NOW you're saying that Surfer wasn't, in fact, using lightspeed attacks against Thanos and we have to question why.

You're saying that his cosmic awareness told him that lightspeed attacks would fail so he didn't use it. If that's true, doesn't it stand to reason that his cosmic awareness would have also told Surfer that his energy attack would have been worthless against Thanos? Didn't stop him from trying, did it?

Your logic of, "Surfer didn't use FTL attacks because Surfer knew that it wouldn't work" falls apart in the face of the other things Surfer tried and failed to do to Thanos. If he really listened to his cosmic awareness, he never would have fought Thanos in the first place, lol.

No, a far more logical conclusion is that Surfer's pacifist nature prevents him from doing everything necessary to defeat an opponent. It's in character, and it jives well with the actual showings. It's the best answer to the question "why".



Except Thanos couldn't answer CM's speed. Or Runner's. Why do you ignore these cases?

Mine doesn't try to fit real world logic...mine uses what's on the damn paper I'm looking at showing the lack of combat speed techniques against Thanos, lol.



No, because they can't do it. I keep saying (and you keep ignoring) that Marvel cosmics don't have FTL combat speed as a given. Just because they're "cosmic" doesn't mean that FTL punching, kicking and blasting are innate. They're not. Not in Marvel.

You keep ignoring that.



No, if we don't assume/infer, we're forced to call it as it is. Which is what we should be doing.



These characters have been around twice as long as any of us.

A dozen or more of them.

Hundreds and hundreds of appearances and fights apiece.

They don't have a single combat speed feat to their credit.

C'mon, Leo.

I expect to see better when you come back!

Originally posted by dvampire
Which puts him at a even bigger disadvantage. No that just disapproves whatever the guy before my reply had said.Originally posted by demigawd
No I didn't. Coming from someone who said that Thanos beat Oblivion, an abstract of the universe and who pulled a weight for Thanos ship out of your ass, you have 0 credibility to recount something accurately.

I agreed with him that Franklin Richards could beat Galactus. Don't extrapolate...that's what usually gets you in trouble in debates.

Now shoo.



hahaha....that's even worse, isn't it? He uses his chair for flight, similar to Surfer's board.

I think you'd be better suited for a Wolverine thread. This is clearly out of your league. Begone. How about you just stop posting period, im suprised you can even type accuratley. AND Thanos ship's weight should be around how much i said it was, physics take care of that,


Bottom Line is, Gladiator had thanos fight someone he KNEW he couldnt take, and thanos took Her extremley easy, even after taking a powerful blast Glads ran from, If Gladiator has to fight Thanos his confidence goes down, WHO???? Is confident against fighting opponents they KNOW are stronger???no-one that goes against psychology.

Originally posted by demigawd
Batman dodging bullets has nothing to do with his character and everything to do with plot. When Batman is in a 10 x 12 room and an army of thugs with machine guys are shooting at him and he's dodging them all...it's PIS. Commonplace PIS, yes...but still PIS.

is it out of character for him to do that? no. so why on earth would it be pis/cis? i still say you throw that term around too liberally.



free pass. heheh. thing is the reason he doesn't use speed IS at the heart of the debate. i don't believe i've said anywhere that he HAS dealt with ftl attacks, (though its possible, i'v enot read all the thanos series or all his appearances) but rather that by his nature he should be more than capable of doing so. big difference. and you ended on a point i was going to raise myself: why BOTHER having ss fight thanos at all? clearly he can't beat him, so what's the point? point is we like to see a hero struggle against overwhelming odds. if all it took was a speedblitz to beat thanos, he wouldn't last very long i'm afraid. his whole existence would then be attributable to pis. glads blitzes and kills him. ss blitzes and kills him. firelord (who has blitzed thor and herc in the past) does the same. in fact any herald can move ftl and do loads of damage. thor can also travel ftl, so he would kill him. beta ray bill. maybe cap marvel. certainly quasar. i've never seen inbetweener move ftl either, so they kill him while thy're at it. and the stranger. and the plethora of other cosmics who've not shown the ability to move at ftl.

if he has godlike reflexes (as stated by marvel) why WOULDN' he be able to react to ftl attacks? you're only ONLY reason is because you haven't seen anyone try, and because spidey dodged his blast and cm hit/surprised him. i still fail to see why THOSE shouldn't be viewed as pis. how about if he simply teleports out of the way of the attack, reappears behind and attacks? he can react, that's not the same as your famous 'combat speed' . . . why not?



hahah. that's YOUR best answer. trouble is, that means there has been so much pis/cis in his appearances that his whole character is a lie. the univserse need not fear thanos. HE should fear anyone with ftl capabilities!



runner had the gem, cm's was apparently a surprise attack -- i may have that issue but i'm not sure which battle he's talking about. i could ask who, besides runner, he has ever missed with an attack? unless of course ss and all the others just WANT to be hit by his blasts. you see, that's what you're implying by saying pis/cis.



you ARE trying to use real world logic. if YOU had ftl you'd attack thanos with it. ss has it so you thinl he should use it and you say cuz he doesn't it's pis. beyond that, you're questioning ANY cosmic who hasn't shown such feats on paper of being capable of DEALING with such attacks.

by your logic, a gl will annihilate a guardian cuz to the best of my knowledge no guardian has shown ftl ability and speed of thought<<<<then speed of light so their mental powers won't save them from a ftl blitz! ludicrous!



why in heaven's name not? cuz it's 'not shown'. you are right, there are almost no examples (beyond the galactus one i referenced earlier) that i can think of off the top of my head. i do know that the dreaming celestial (before g devoured it) chased reed's ultimately fast ship (where glads and thor fought) by just REACHING OUT FOR IT! his hand was GAINING on the ship even as it travelled through different eras of time! clearly g and the celestials (at least THAT one) are capable -- if they choose -- of moving at ftl. so that's 2. so just those 2 are capable of it? c'mon, demi, you must be kidding . . .



no. what we should be doing is using our own knowledge of characters, and be willing to accept that not everything needs to be shown to you.



maybe twice as long as YOU have . . ..

thor has been shown capable of throwing his hammer ftl. i mentioned g and the celestial. and really, it won't get any better, i'm afraid. you are clamoring for evidence that is unlikely to be revealed. personally, i need no evidence. not everything needs to be 'proven on paper' to me. i'll trust my own knowledge of characters (and recognize the illogic of callling all these things cis/pis) to help me decide this issue.

common sense is my shield!

Update: Over on the Surfer vs. Superman thread, a similar discussion is taking place, and it turns out that Surfer doesn't have ANY combat speed feats. Or at least no scans of it.

That makes the case for Thanos being able to react to FTL combat grows even more dubious.

All of your examples make use of flight/travel speed. None of them make use of combat speed.

So what does that mean? It means your assumption that Thanos has dealt with FTL attacks by virtue of fighting cosmic beings has 0 grounding, because NONE of Thanos' opponents short of Runner and CM have shown any sort of FTL combat ability....at all.

In other words...there's no longer any point in arguing why, when the 'if' is now in question.

So to summarize: Your assumption was that Thanos can deal with FTL combat speed because he fights cosmics. You then further assume that cosmics are able to fight at FTL combat speeds. But now, it seems that the cosmics he fights don't actually fight at FTL combat speeds themselves, which throws out your very assumption that Thanos can deal with FTL combat speed. As it stands, he's rarely even encountered it, and when he has, he's shown no ability to deal with it.

Additionally - the scans were posted. Thanos didn't react to Surfer trying to grab the gauntlet at FTL speed. Sufer missed.

Originally posted by demigawd
Update: Over on the Surfer vs. Superman thread, a similar discussion is taking place, and it turns out that Surfer doesn't have ANY combat speed feats. Or at least no scans of it.

That makes the case for Thanos being able to react to FTL combat grows even more dubious.

All of your examples make use of flight/travel speed. None of them make use of combat speed.

So what does that mean? It means your assumption that Thanos has dealt with FTL attacks by virtue of fighting cosmic beings has 0 grounding, because NONE of Thanos' opponents short of Runner and CM have shown any sort of FTL combat ability....at all.

In other words...there's no longer any point in arguing why, when the 'if' is now in question.

So to summarize: Your assumption was that Thanos can deal with FTL combat speed because he fights cosmics. You then further assume that cosmics are able to fight at FTL combat speeds. But now, it seems that the cosmics he fights don't actually fight at FTL combat speeds themselves, which throws out your very assumption that Thanos can deal with FTL combat speed. As it stands, he's rarely even encountered it, and when he has, he's shown no ability to deal with it.

Additionally - the scans were posted. Thanos didn't react to Surfer trying to grab the gauntlet at FTL speed. Sufer missed. He defeated God-Like Cable.....

Originally posted by King KAM
He defeated God-Like Cable.....

So?

Originally posted by leonidas
is it out of character for him to do that? no. so why on earth would it be pis/cis? i still say you throw that term around too liberally.



free pass. heheh. thing is the reason he doesn't use speed IS at the heart of the debate. i don't believe i've said anywhere that he HAS dealt with ftl attacks, (though its possible, i'v enot read all the thanos series or all his appearances) but rather that by his nature he should be more than capable of doing so. big difference. and you ended on a point i was going to raise myself: why BOTHER having ss fight thanos at all? clearly he can't beat him, so what's the point? point is we like to see a hero struggle against overwhelming odds. if all it took was a speedblitz to beat thanos, he wouldn't last very long i'm afraid. his whole existence would then be attributable to pis. glads blitzes and kills him. ss blitzes and kills him. firelord (who has blitzed thor and herc in the past) does the same. in fact any herald can move ftl and do loads of damage. thor can also travel ftl, so he would kill him. beta ray bill. maybe cap marvel. certainly quasar. i've never seen inbetweener move ftl either, so they kill him while thy're at it. and the stranger. and the plethora of other cosmics who've not shown the ability to move at ftl.

if he has godlike reflexes (as stated by marvel) why WOULDN' he be able to react to ftl attacks? you're only ONLY reason is because you haven't seen anyone try, and because spidey dodged his blast and cm hit/surprised him. i still fail to see why THOSE shouldn't be viewed as pis. how about if he simply teleports out of the way of the attack, reappears behind and attacks? he can react, that's not the same as your famous 'combat speed' . . . why not?



hahah. that's YOUR best answer. trouble is, that means there has been so much pis/cis in his appearances that his whole character is a lie. the univserse need not fear thanos. HE should fear anyone with ftl capabilities!



runner had the gem, cm's was apparently a surprise attack -- i may have that issue but i'm not sure which battle he's talking about. i could ask who, besides runner, he has ever missed with an attack? unless of course ss and all the others just WANT to be hit by his blasts. you see, that's what you're implying by saying pis/cis.



you ARE trying to use real world logic. if YOU had ftl you'd attack thanos with it. ss has it so you thinl he should use it and you say cuz he doesn't it's pis. beyond that, you're questioning ANY cosmic who hasn't shown such feats on paper of being capable of DEALING with such attacks.

by your logic, a gl will annihilate a guardian cuz to the best of my knowledge no guardian has shown ftl ability and speed of thought<<<<then speed of light so their mental powers won't save them from a ftl blitz! ludicrous!



why in heaven's name not? cuz it's 'not shown'. you are right, there are almost no examples (beyond the galactus one i referenced earlier) that i can think of off the top of my head. i do know that the dreaming celestial (before g devoured it) chased reed's ultimately fast ship (where glads and thor fought) by just REACHING OUT FOR IT! his hand was GAINING on the ship even as it travelled through different eras of time! clearly g and the celestials (at least THAT one) are capable -- if they choose -- of moving at ftl. so that's 2. so just those 2 are capable of it? c'mon, demi, you must be kidding . . .



no. what we should be doing is using our own knowledge of characters, and be willing to accept that not everything needs to be shown to you.



maybe twice as long as YOU have . . ..

thor has been shown capable of throwing his hammer ftl. i mentioned g and the celestial. and really, it won't get any better, i'm afraid. you are clamoring for evidence that is unlikely to be revealed. personally, i need no evidence. not everything needs to be 'proven on paper' to me. i'll trust my own knowledge of characters (and recognize the illogic of callling all these things cis/pis) to help me decide this issue.

common sense is my shield!

WHOA!! This sh*t was good. I cant say it any better than this Leo. Youre on fire!!!

This is ridiculous. Demis just hurting because its been highlighted how Magneto can get taken down by FTL attacks so now he's just trying to soften the blow by including Thanos in that category.

Surely you've noticed his recent strong support for Superman and the like?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
WHOA!! This sh*t was good. I cant say it any better than this Leo. Youre on fire!!!

chair

^demi ^leo

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
This is ridiculous. Demis just hurting because its been highlighted how Magneto can get taken down by FTL attacks so now he's just trying to soften the blow by including Thanos in that category.

Surely you've noticed his recent strong support for Superman and the like?

yep. and somehow i'm thinking his unwavering support of supes is a not quite as . . . sincere as it perhaps should be . . .

Originally posted by demigawd
Update: Over on the Surfer vs. Superman thread, a similar discussion is taking place, and it turns out that Surfer doesn't have ANY combat speed feats. Or at least no scans of it.

That makes the case for Thanos being able to react to FTL combat grows even more dubious.

All of your examples make use of flight/travel speed. None of them make use of combat speed.

So what does that mean? It means your assumption that Thanos has dealt with FTL attacks by virtue of fighting cosmic beings has 0 grounding, because NONE of Thanos' opponents short of Runner and CM have shown any sort of FTL combat ability....at all.

In other words...there's no longer any point in arguing why, when the 'if' is now in question.

So to summarize: Your assumption was that Thanos can deal with FTL combat speed because he fights cosmics. You then further assume that cosmics are able to fight at FTL combat speeds. But now, it seems that the cosmics he fights don't actually fight at FTL combat speeds themselves, which throws out your very assumption that Thanos can deal with FTL combat speed. As it stands, he's rarely even encountered it, and when he has, he's shown no ability to deal with it.

Additionally - the scans were posted. Thanos didn't react to Surfer trying to grab the gauntlet at FTL speed. Sufer missed.

Nice post!

this is a joke. Thanos is almost pure god level
No way Glad is taking him down

Originally posted by demigawd
Additionally - the scans were posted. Thanos didn't react to Surfer trying to grab the gauntlet at FTL speed. Sufer missed.
If Thanos didn't react, what was that shocked look on his face for while looking towards Surfer? If Thanos was incapable of reacting to a FTL opponent, he wouldn't have even known Surfer had been there or tried to take the Gauntlet, it would have all happened to quickly for it to even register...the fact Thanos realises Surfer is even there at the speed he is going suggests his reaction times are very good indeed.

Originally posted by Wally West
If Thanos didn't react, what was that shocked look on his face for while looking towards Surfer? If Thanos was incapable of reacting to a FTL opponent, he wouldn't have even known Surfer had been there or tried to take the Gauntlet, it would have all happened to quickly for it to even register...the fact Thanos realises Surfer is even there at the speed he is going suggests his reaction times are very good indeed. Yet, Surfer moved from one planet to another in the space of one of his punches. And once Surfer missed, he turned the Gauntles back up to full power to fight him.

But my point is the fact Thanos even knew Surfer had tried to take the Gauntlet shows he can react to those kind of attacks, if he couldn't react to the kind of attack he wouldn't have even seen Surfer or knew he had been there, and Surfer could have kept trying the same tactic over and over because Thanos would not be able to even see him. The fact Adam Warlock holds Surfer back, waiting for that one particular moment to try that strategy suggests they know he might be able to react in time, otherwise he could have just sent Surfer the moment Thanos reduced himself to just the Power Gem.

And theres nothing to suggest he was throwing that punch as fast as possible at Cap, the whole fight was to try and impress Death by fighting all the heroes at once, he wasn't taking it to seriously. He only gets serious when Surfer nearly grabs the gauntlet.

And I dunno if you're trying to suggest Thanos needed the gauntlet to beat Surfer, because obviously he doesn't.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
WHOA!! This sh*t was good. I cant say it any better than this Leo. Youre on fire!!!

Actually, his whole post was rendered moot by the discovery that SS has no combat speed feats to his credit. And neither do any other Marvel cosmics, hahahaha.

But good try guys. The B-league almost came through.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
This is ridiculous. Demis just hurting because its been highlighted how Magneto can get taken down by FTL attacks so now he's just trying to soften the blow by including Thanos in that category.

Surely you've noticed his recent strong support for Superman and the like?

I'm just saying...ANYBODY can use the FTL debate and get cheap wins against ANYBODY...even Thanos! Look at this...nobody can beat me, and I'm using GLADIATOR

against THANOS.

HAHAHAHAHA....it's too easy! THIS is the way to live, my friends! Embrace the speedblitz!

Originally posted by Wally West
If Thanos didn't react, what was that shocked look on his face for while looking towards Surfer? If Thanos was incapable of reacting to a FTL opponent, he wouldn't have even known Surfer had been there or tried to take the Gauntlet, it would have all happened to quickly for it to even register...the fact Thanos realises Surfer is even there at the speed he is going suggests his reaction times are very good indeed.

Thanos didn't turn around until Surfer had already passed him. If it were a genuine example of Thanos have FTL reactions, the author/artist would have made it more obvious. At best, it's dubious, at worst, it's a showing AGAINST Thanos' ability to deal with FTL.

Thanos in Thanos Quest seemed to be scared of battling the Hulk. Said something about hoping to never having to meet him in battle.
As we know, Gladiator as a Super-clone is far superior to this in nearly every manner, speed, versatility, strength over Hulk.
Thanos should fearrrr.
I mean, he's 39048093284902380 times light speed, right?

Originally posted by Wally West
But my point is the fact Thanos even knew Surfer had tried to take the Gauntlet shows he can react to those kind of attacks, if he couldn't react to the kind of attack he wouldn't have even seen Surfer or knew he had been there, and Surfer could have kept trying the same tactic over and over because Thanos would not be able to even see him. The fact Adam Warlock holds Surfer back, waiting for that one particular moment to try that strategy suggests they know he might be able to react in time, otherwise he could have just sent Surfer the moment Thanos reduced himself to just the Power Gem.

And theres nothing to suggest he was throwing that punch as fast as possible at Cap, the whole fight was to try and impress Death by fighting all the heroes at once, he wasn't taking it to seriously. He only gets serious when Surfer nearly grabs the gauntlet.

And I dunno if you're trying to suggest Thanos needed the gauntlet to beat Surfer, because obviously he doesn't.

If Warlock and Surfer knew that Thanos could react to light speed, they wouldn't have bothered with the "fly down there in the space of time it takes for him to throw a punch" strategy in the first place, because they would have known it wouldn't work. Rather, it was pretty clear that Surfer MISSED his mark, and Thanos didn't react until Surfer has passed him. Afterwards, Thanos freaked out over what nearly happened. If Thanos saw it coming and MADE Surfer miss, he would have been smug about it. He wouldn't have reacted the way he did.

Originally posted by Juntai
Thanos in Thanos Quest seemed to be scared of battling the Hulk. Said something about hoping to never having to meet him in battle.
As we know, Gladiator as a Super-clone is far superior to this in nearly every manner, speed, versatility, strength over Hulk.
Thanos should fearrrr.
I mean, he's 39048093284902380 times light speed, right?

Right!

Originally posted by demigawd
If Warlock and Surfer knew that Thanos could react to light speed, they wouldn't have bothered with the "fly down there in the space of time it takes for him to throw a punch" strategy in the first place, because they would have known it wouldn't work. Rather, it was pretty clear that Surfer MISSED his mark, and Thanos didn't react until Surfer has passed him. Afterwards, Thanos freaked out over what nearly happened. If Thanos saw it coming and MADE Surfer miss, he would have been smug about it. He wouldn't have reacted the way he did. That sure is truth.

Well can someone explain to me why Adam Warlock waited until Thanos had killed every hero but Cap before sending Surfer in on the attack? Why not sent him the second he powers down to just the power gem and has dozens of the heroes to worry about? Why doesn't Surfer try more than once? I mean if Thanos is so incapable of reacting to lightspeed characters, SUrfer could have tried to take the Gauntlet from his hand 100 times before the first attempt had even registered with Thanos...

And Adam Warlock basically says he knew it wouldn't work as soon as Surfer misses, he knew Thanos could avoid it and Surfer only had the 1 chance to try it

Originally posted by Wally West
Well can someone explain to me why Adam Warlock waited until Thanos had killed every hero but Cap before sending Surfer in on the attack? Why not sent him the second he powers down to just the power gem and has dozens of the heroes to worry about? Why doesn't Surfer try more than once? I mean if Thanos is so incapable of reacting to lightspeed characters, SUrfer could have tried to take the Gauntlet from his hand 100 times before the first attempt had even registered with Thanos...

And Adam Warlock basically says he knew it wouldn't work as soon as Surfer misses, he knew Thanos could avoid it and Surfer only had the 1 chance to try it Obviously he's fast, but clearly not as fast as surfer was moving, and once Surfer missed and went by, and Thanos noticed it, he turned the IG back to full power. The opportunity was missed. He only had one chance because of that in itself, he would will the Gauntlet back to full power. Then his OWN reaction time doesn't make a bit of difference.

Originally posted by demigawd
Actually, his whole post was rendered moot by the discovery that SS has no combat speed feats to his credit. And neither do any other Marvel cosmics, hahahaha.

except the aforementioned cosmics (dreaming celestial and galactus) of course . . .

and in both cases, the movements (g blasting keeper who was fleeing from him and the dc trying to reach for and crush the ship) were part of a battle/combat as opposed to simply flying through space ftl.

Originally posted by leonidas
except the aforementioned cosmics (dreaming celestial and galactus) of course . . .

and in both cases, the movements (g blasting keeper who was fleeing from him and the dc trying to reach for and crush the ship) were part of a battle/combat as opposed to simply flying through space ftl.

Two things in response:

1. When I say cosmics, I mean people Thanos actually fights, like heralds, and skyfather types. This is, after all, a vs. Gladiator/Superman thread. You KNOW I'm not talking about Celestials. Don't be glib! lol

2. Even in your example, that's not an example of real combat speed feats. It's, again, an example of high travel speeds. See the scans I've posted of Superman speedblitzing opponents as an example of what I'm talking about, or Gladiator grabbing a metal girder and wrapping Cannonball up in it before he knew what was happening.

THAT is speedblitzing.

THAT is something Thanos has a 0 positive track record in.

So there!

glib? moi?

Originally posted by leonidas
glib? moi?

Glibber than Matt Lauer! Now give up!

Originally posted by leonidas
glib? moi? so gladiator loses to blackbolt,loses to Thor,loses to Hulk,and gets check by cannon ball, has used thanos before to do a job he couldnt do himself(because he wasnt strong enough) and KNOWS that Thanos is stronger than he is, which would dramatically effect this battle seing as it would severley hurt his confidence, YET we are the ones that are "glib"

someones been watching their vh1.

Originally posted by King KAM
so gladiator loses to blackbolt,loses to Thor,loses to Hulk,and gets check by cannon ball, has used thanos before to do a job he couldnt do himself(because he wasnt strong enough) and KNOWS that Thanos is stronger than he is, which would dramatically effect this battle seing as it would severley hurt his confidence, YET we are the ones that are "glib"

someones been watching their vh1.

PIS - all of it! Ph3ar the speedblitz!!!

Originally posted by Juntai
That sure is truth.

Wrong. Take a look:

http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/InfinityGauntlet4p37.jpg

Thanos has his hand down and head turned the instant surfer arrives. On the other hand, Cap is oblivious, and in fact by the time Cap finishes throwing his punch (which thanos obviously does not even feel), surfer is a galaxy away.

There is no explanation for this other than to say, AS MARVEL ITSELF SAYS IN HIS PROFILE, (not just in the numerical speed power ratings) that Thanos has godlike reflexes.

Let's turn the table: when has gladiator OR superman shown the ability to react to something moving at millions of times the speed of light?Thanos reacts that fast with a cosmic blast or punch and both of them go down before they even MOVE.

These debates are ridiculous. They remind me of a time a friend in high school told me I couldn't prove he'd lose a 1on1 game to michael jordan because they'd never played against each other, and mj had never defended his hook.

PS THe friend, while a pretty good player, was about 6'2".

Oh, and it's worth emphasizing, this is how fast thanos reacted WHEN SURPRISED. In a 1on1 fight, when you can see your enemy coming, it's a whole different story. Reaction speed when prepared is many times faster than reaction speed when surprised.

The real question is why thanos doesn't speed blitz everyone he fights, not vice versa. YOu have to be FAR FAR faster than someone to dodge their blow when you're not prepared for it. Anyone who's done any sort of martial arts/boxing would know this.

It sure looks like Thanos reacted slow to me. Faster than Cap, yes. But I'd expect that. Like I said before, Thanos might be able to perceive FTL speeds (like Deathstroke), but it doesn't mean he can fight it. He'd just perceive his tail getting kicked in by speedblitzes.

Don't know about Gladiator aside from him FIGHTING at 100x FTL speeds, but I know Superman has lots of high speed reaction feats with FTL characters. Just look at his battles against people like Flash and Wonder Woman. He's more than able to keep up.

Thanos? Not so much.

No Thanos doesn't care about people who would never be a threat or interest to him. Thanos goes after higher battles Gladiator went up against Thor & Silver Surfer people who are below Thanos. Thanos fights Skyfathers and Higher beings like Elders,Inbetweener,Galactus,and Tyrant. Thanos fighting Gladiator is like Thanos fighting a kid.

Originally posted by demigawd
It sure looks like Thanos reacted slow to me. Faster than Cap, yes. But I'd expect that. Like I said before, Thanos might be able to perceive FTL speeds (like Deathstroke), but it doesn't mean he can fight it. He'd just perceive his tail getting kicked in by speedblitzes.

Don't know about Gladiator aside from him FIGHTING at 100x FTL speeds, but I know Superman has lots of high speed reaction feats with FTL characters. Just look at his battles against people like Flash and Wonder Woman. He's more than able to keep up.

Thanos? Not so much.

Slow? Say surfer just missed, which is wrong. (how often do heralds miss picking up stationary objects?) But say that's what happened for the sake of argument.

Surfer was a few feet away after missing, and thanos had his hand lowered and his head turned. That means he can turn his head and move his hand in the same time surfer (traveling at something like 30 million times the speed of light) moved a few feet.

If he can move his hand that fast, that would imply that he could throw trillions of punches (actually, more than trillions, but you get the point) in one second.

When has gladiator, superman, or even flash shown that ability?

Superman has exactly zero high speed feats reacting to someone moving at millions of times the speed of light. AFAIK, Flash has no COMBAT or REACTION feats against someone going at that speed, only travel. Wonder woman's speed feats are laughable in comparison.

If this is your best example of thanos "moving slow", then thanos is the fastest being in the marvel universe. Even when he's surprised.

I'm not committed to this position because I look at fight outcomes rather than trying to scientifically analyze specific powers as if comics were the real world. But it's not an implausible position, if one is using this evidence alone to judge speed/reactions.

Originally posted by golem370
No Thanos doesn't care about people who would never be a threat or interest to him. Thanos goes after higher battles Gladiator went up against Thor & Silver Surfer people who are below Thanos. Thanos fights Skyfathers and Higher beings like Elders,Inbetweener,Galactus,and Tyrant. Thanos fighting Gladiator is like Thanos fighting a kid.

Not so much a kid as a bug. A kid might actually hurt an adult, and beat him a few times if he wasn't looking.

Edit: actually, i think you meant gladiator might as well be a normal kid. In that case, I agree.

Originally posted by slade10
Surfer was a few feet away after missing, and thanos had his hand lowered and his head turned. That means he can turn his head and move his hand in the same time surfer (traveling at something like 30 million times the speed of light) moved a few feet.


You'll notice that Cap was already in the middle of forming his fist and readying an attack at the same time. In the page before, which I've posted for your viewing pleasure, he wasn't in that position. So are you going to say that Cap can react at millions of times the speed of light too?

And yet, we have both Thanos AND Cap in totally different positions in the same frame.

What they (and we're) actually seeing is an afterimage. Either that or Cap has "godlike" reflexes too, lol.

As such, I can safely disregard the rest of your extrapolations in your post.

Our conclusion? We know that Thanos is at least a bit faster than Cap. But not all that much.

What are you talking about? that shows nothing but cap's head. You have no idea what his posture is, or at what point those images are supposed to represent relative to surfer's blitz. And if cap could change his posture that quickly, why would they show surfer a galaxy away by the time he throws his punch? Did cap suddenly slow his punch down mid swing?

The other image has clear indisputable proof. This one is a picture of a guy's head. This is your best argument?

In any event, if it did show cap changing postures in the time it took for surfer to move a few feet, then yes, by your logic that would count as a speed feat. And apparently cap would be able to throw trillions of punches in a second as well. (though it would still be puzzling as to why he would slow his punch down to 1/trillionth speed mid punch)

Which means cap > marvel earth and probably cap > dc earth.

Thankfully, it shows nothing of the sort.

I don't know what the big deal is. Surfer was too late and missed, end of story. Does that make Thanos superfast ? Absolutely not. Spider-Man dodges lasers all of the times, and they are waaaay faster than Spider-Man.

I've never seen Thanos "speedblizting" somebody. And his battles with Surfer don't mean a thing, because everybody seems to be able to hit Surfer.

Originally posted by who?-kid
I don't know what the big deal is. Surfer was too late and missed, end of story. Does that make Thanos superfast ? Absolutely not. Spider-Man dodges lasers all of the times, and they are waaaay faster than Spider-Man.

I've never seen Thanos "speedblizting" somebody. And his battles with Surfer don't mean a thing, because everybody seems to be able to hit Surfer.

I agree. Spider-man or wolverine or batman dodging lasers does not show they are faster than lasers. What it DOES show is that spider-man can dodge lasers, however nonsensical that seems in the real world with his described powers.

And this scan shows that thanos can dodge something moving at millions of times the speed of life, however nonsensical that seems in the real world with his described powers.

And who else has reacted to surfer (or anyone else) moving at milions of times the speed of light? In either marvel or dc?

<<Don't know about Gladiator aside from him FIGHTING at 100x FTL speeds, but I know Superman has lots of high speed reaction feats with FTL characters. Just look at his battles against people like Flash and Wonder Woman. He's more than able to keep up.>>

glads has NEVER fought at "100x lightspeed"! i love the way you are defending your position to death -- a position i doubt you even really believe. i feel like i am being devoured by the irony even as i watch you gamely defend the whole "ftl can beat and be an answer to anything"!

superman beats all the cosmics! i always knew it was true!!

Originally posted by slade10
What are you talking about? that shows nothing but cap's head. You have no idea what his posture is, or at what point those images are supposed to represent relative to surfer's blitz.


Exactly, so as proof...it's impossible to conclude that Thanos reacted to Surfer's attempt to grab the gauntlet.

Here's the scan before that...Cap in a completely different posture. By the time the blitz ended, both Cap and Thanos were in completely different positions. Thanos turned his head and saw Surfer as he was passing. Cap was focused on attempting to punch Thanos. In both cases they began and ended with different postures, discrediting the notion that Thanos in fact foiled the attempt.

All it shows is that Thanos was able to see FTL movement - which I don't doubt. But being able to see it being able to fight it are entirely different things. Entirely.

Either way, for one of the only showings of Thanos "reacting" to FTL actions, it's dubious indeed. Too much so.



No, but you'll note that from the time Surfer started his run to the time he ended it, Cap was able to go from a neutral position to a combat position preparing for a punch. That's more than enough time for several thoughts. I'd expect Thanos to sense the approach if he has several thoughts worth of time. But he still didn't react to it until after it was over. That's why he looked back at Surfer instead of forward at him.

To me, that's slow.

Originally posted by leonidas
<<Don't know about Gladiator aside from him FIGHTING at 100x FTL speeds, but I know Superman has lots of high speed reaction feats with FTL characters. Just look at his battles against people like Flash and Wonder Woman. He's more than able to keep up.>>

glads has NEVER fought at "100x lightspeed"! i love the way you are defending your position to death -- a position i doubt you even really believe. i feel like i am being devoured by the irony even as i watch you gamely defend the whole "ftl can beat and be an answer to anything"!

superman beats all the cosmics! i always knew it was true!!

Tell that to kgkg! He'll tell you that Gladiator was fighting at 100x FTL!

Arguing speedblitzes is fun and easy! Everybody should do it! I told you, I've been living wrong all these years....

I forgot the scan...

Originally posted by demigawd
Exactly, so as proof...it's impossible to conclude that Thanos reacted to Surfer's attempt to grab the gauntlet.

Here's the scan before that...Cap in a completely different posture. By the time the blitz ended, both Cap and Thanos were in completely different positions. Thanos turned his head and saw Surfer as he was passing. Cap was focused on attempting to punch Thanos. In both cases they began and ended with different postures, discrediting the notion that Thanos in fact foiled the attempt.

All it shows is that Thanos was able to see FTL movement - which I don't doubt. But being able to see it being able to fight it are entirely different things. Entirely.

Either way, for one of the only showings of Thanos "reacting" to FTL actions, it's dubious indeed. Too much so.



No, but you'll note that from the time Surfer started his run to the time he ended it, Cap was able to go from a neutral position to a combat position preparing for a punch. That's more than enough time for several thoughts. I'd expect Thanos to sense the approach if he has several thoughts worth of time. But he still didn't react to it until after it was over. That's why he looked back at Surfer instead of forward at him.

To me, that's slow.

Originally posted by leonidas
<<Don't know about Gladiator aside from him FIGHTING at 100x FTL speeds, but I know Superman has lots of high speed reaction feats with FTL characters. Just look at his battles against people like Flash and Wonder Woman. He's more than able to keep up.>>

glads has NEVER fought at "100x lightspeed"! i love the way you are defending your position to death -- a position i doubt you even really believe. i feel like i am being devoured by the irony even as i watch you gamely defend the whole "ftl can beat and be an answer to anything"!

superman beats all the cosmics! i always knew it was true!! *shakes his head* we just cant win this one Leo....they just wont listen....

ah, demi'll come to his senses soon as he gets sick of this ftl thing. he's just doing it to piss everyone off anyway. give it time, give it time . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
ah, demi'll come to his senses soon as he gets sick of this ftl thing. he's just doing it to piss everyone off anyway. give it time, give it time . . . he hates thanos......and likes batman....im not too sure...

Originally posted by King KAM
he hates thanos......and likes batman....im not too sure...

lol...now I'm a Thanos hater and Batman fanboy, too!

I wish I could go back in time and say to Demigawd 1/19/2006, "Did you know that next week you're going to be accused of being a Superman and Batman fanboy and Thanos hater?". Just to see the reaction on his/my face.

Originally posted by demigawd
lol...now I'm a Thanos hater and Batman fanboy, too!

I wish I could go back in time and say to Demigawd 1/19/2006, "Did you know that next week you're going to be accused of being a Superman and Batman fanboy and Thanos hater?". Just to see the reaction on his/my face. and a sicko....perv

Originally posted by King KAM
and a sicko....perv

Sure...why not?

Originally posted by demigawd
Sure...why not? who knows? works for the catholic church......(waits for the backlash)

Originally posted by demigawd
Exactly, so as proof...it's impossible to conclude that Thanos reacted to Surfer's attempt to grab the gauntlet.

Here's the scan before that...Cap in a completely different posture. By the time the blitz ended, both Cap and Thanos were in completely different positions. Thanos turned his head and saw Surfer as he was passing. Cap was focused on attempting to punch Thanos. In both cases they began and ended with different postures, discrediting the notion that Thanos in fact foiled the attempt.

All it shows is that Thanos was able to see FTL movement - which I don't doubt. But being able to see it being able to fight it are entirely different things. Entirely.

Either way, for one of the only showings of Thanos "reacting" to FTL actions, it's dubious indeed. Too much so.



No, but you'll note that from the time Surfer started his run to the time he ended it, Cap was able to go from a neutral position to a combat position preparing for a punch. That's more than enough time for several thoughts. I'd expect Thanos to sense the approach if he has several thoughts worth of time. But he still didn't react to it until after it was over. That's why he looked back at Surfer instead of forward at him.

To me, that's slow.

Your post makes no sense. Are you trying to prove that cap can move? That's all the previous scan shows. You see him in one posture before surfer dashes, and a different one when surfer dashes. You have no idea how much time passes between frames.

The fact of the matter is that thanos has his hand raised and his eyes toward cap until surfer dashes. Unless you are saying thanos suddenly decided to dance a little jig mid-slap, and THEN surfer dashed, the only explanation is FTL reflexes and movement. Even the jig theory requires some explanation for the gleam in thanos' eye prior to surfer passing by. Is that supposed to be a sign of cosmic dance fever? Or a sign that he is reacting to surfer? (It's certainly not a light reflection, for obvious reasons.)

There is a simple answer here, and a convoluted one. Heard of ockham's razor?

Originally posted by slade10
Your post makes no sense. Are you trying to prove that cap can move? That's all the previous scan shows. You see him in one posture before surfer dashes, and a different one when surfer dashes. You have no idea how much time passes between frames.

The fact of the matter is that thanos has his hand raised and his eyes toward cap until surfer dashes. Unless you are saying thanos suddenly decided to dance a little jig mid-slap, and THEN surfer dashed, the only explanation is FTL reflexes and movement. Even the jig theory requires some explanation for the gleam in thanos' eye prior to surfer passing by. Is that supposed to be a sign of cosmic dance fever? Or a sign that he is reacting to surfer? (It's certainly not a light reflection, for obvious reasons.)

There is a simple answer here, and a convoluted one. Heard of ockham's razor?

Let's give the scan the benefit of the doubt, just for argument's sake. Let's say Thanos did, in fact, react. Surfer started so far away from Thanos and Cap that both Thanos and Cap were capable of multiple movements in the time it took for Surfer to fly. That's actually a span of a few seconds. If Thanos were truly capable of keeping up with the Surfer, he would have had plenty of time to react more deliberately - every second would have been a minute. But he couldn't react fast enough. He saw Surfer coming from millions of miles away and was barely able to stop himself. Having three seconds to process a thought and interrupt yourself isn't all that impressive.

It's not an good feat for Thanos and not evidence of FTL reaction times no matter how you interpret it.

And given that it's Thanos only even semi-showing dealing with FTL, it's far too dubious to give him any benefit of the doubt, especially when weighed against his inability to hit the likes of the Runner, or his speedblitz at the hands of Captain Marvel.

Originally posted by demigawd
Let's give the scan the benefit of the doubt, just for argument's sake. Let's say Thanos did, in fact, react. Surfer started so far away from Thanos and Cap that both Thanos and Cap were capable of multiple movements in the time it took for Surfer to fly. That's actually a span of a few seconds. If Thanos were truly capable of keeping up with the Surfer, he would have had plenty of time to react more deliberately - every second would have been a minute. But he couldn't react fast enough. He saw Surfer coming from millions of miles away and was barely able to stop himself. Having three seconds to process a thought and interrupt yourself isn't all that impressive.

It's not an good feat for Thanos and not evidence of FTL reaction times no matter how you interpret it.

And given that it's Thanos only even semi-showing dealing with FTL, it's far too dubious to give him any benefit of the doubt, especially when weighed against his inability to hit the likes of the Runner, or his speedblitz at the hands of Captain Marvel.

1. Where are the multiple movements? All we see is thanos jerking away and cap completely oblivious. Are you still on this cap changing postures stuff? It's a different frame for heaven's sake.

2. How do you know he saw surfer from millions of miles away? And if he can detect creatures in the universe across galaxies, that's even better than FTL reaction. That's cosmic-level universal awareness. Then the puzzle would be why he didn't detect warlock and surfer before they even moved. Or are you saying he has cosmic awareness, BUT only to the range of "millions of miles"?

3. Let's suppose thanos doesn't have universal cosmic awareness, which seems plausible since he is sometimes surprised by people even within normal human eyesight range. Then the inevitable conclusion is FTL reflexes. He's not reacting from the point where surfer starts; he's reacting from the point that he detects him.

Assuming thanos does not have universal cosmic awareness, that is probably a few miles. Even if you're right, and he detects him from millions of miles away (which is arbitrary and inconsistent with thanos' demonstrated abilities), that is still a RIDICULOUSLY impressive speed feat. Instead of tens of trillions of punches a second, he can only throw millions.

You seem unable to grasp the idea that distances are condensed when you're moving at millions of times the speed of light. Trillions and trillions of miles can be covered in less than a second, at that speed. Unless you're saying that thanos detected surfer even before he started moving (which, again, is question-begging), or from trillions and trillions of miles away (which is arbitrary and inconsistent with thanos' known abilities), this is an impressive speed feat. As impressive as any reflex feat I've ever seen, if you want to be strictly scientific about it. I've never seen any other character dodge someone moving at millions of times the speed of light. (mainly because you rarely see any character reach that speed)

Originally posted by demigawd
Let's give the scan the benefit of the doubt, just for argument's sake. Let's say Thanos did, in fact, react. Surfer started so far away from Thanos and Cap that both Thanos and Cap were capable of multiple movements in the time it took for Surfer to fly. That's actually a span of a few seconds. If Thanos were truly capable of keeping up with the Surfer, he would have had plenty of time to react more deliberately - every second would have been a minute. But he couldn't react fast enough. He saw Surfer coming from millions of miles away and was barely able to stop himself. Having three seconds to process a thought and interrupt yourself isn't all that impressive.

It's not an good feat for Thanos and not evidence of FTL reaction times no matter how you interpret it.

And given that it's Thanos only even semi-showing dealing with FTL, it's far too dubious to give him any benefit of the doubt, especially when weighed against his inability to hit the likes of the Runner, or his speedblitz at the hands of Captain Marvel.

wallbash

get 'im slade!

Originally posted by slade10
1. Where are the multiple movements? All we see is thanos jerking away and cap completely oblivious. Are you still on this cap changing postures stuff? It's a different frame for heaven's sake.

2. How do you know he saw surfer from millions of miles away? And if he can detect creatures in the universe across galaxies, that's even better than FTL reaction. That's cosmic-level universal awareness. Then the puzzle would be why he didn't detect warlock and surfer before they even moved. Or are you saying he has cosmic awareness, BUT only to the range of "millions of miles"?

3. Let's suppose thanos doesn't have universal cosmic awareness, which seems plausible since he is sometimes surprised by people even within normal human eyesight range. Then the inevitable conclusion is FTL reflexes. He's not reacting from the point where surfer starts; he's reacting from the point that he detects him.

Assuming thanos does not have universal cosmic awareness, that is probably a few miles. Even if you're right, and he detects him from millions of miles away (which is arbitrary and inconsistent with thanos' demonstrated abilities), that is still a RIDICULOUSLY impressive speed feat. Instead of tens of trillions of punches a second, he can only throw millions.

You seem unable to grasp the idea that distances are condensed when you're moving at millions of times the speed of light. Trillions and trillions of miles can be covered in less than a second, at that speed. Unless you're saying that thanos detected surfer even before he started moving (which, again, is question-begging), or from trillions and trillions of miles away (which is arbitrary and inconsistent with thanos' known abilities), this is an impressive speed feat. As impressive as any reflex feat I've ever seen, if you want to be strictly scientific about it. I've never seen any other character dodge someone moving at millions of times the speed of light. (mainly because you rarely see any character reach that speed)

It's in a different frame starting from the moment Surfer started moving. From the time Surfer started his travel to the time he finished it, both Thanos AND Cap changed positions and expressions significantly, and equally. Your "evidence" hinges on the fact that Thanos was looking behind him at Surfer flying off while Cap is not. Why would Cap care? He's got a mission to fulfill. The silver streak is clearly there even after Cap completes his punch. Cap is FOCUSED on Thanos. It's a huge leap in logic and judgment to say that Cap is frozen in frame while Thanos is reacting. There's simply not enough of a case to make that kind of conclusion.

Compare the three pages we've posted frame by frame. Thanos is preparing his punch, Cap is standing there, about to take it. The punch moves closer and closer to Cap's face, which just alters slightly. Then we see a light in Thanos' eye - it's the Surfer coming (advanced warning). It's a good case that Thanos can detect FTL movement, putting him in such elite company as Deathstroke.

Then Surfer flies in, misses, and continues to fly off. By then, both the positions of Thanos AND Cap have changed significantly. Thanos looks BEHIND him with a clearly panicked look on his face (but his fist is in the same general position!!!), while Cap is about to punch him. The silver streak in space is still there even as Cap punches Thanos.

As far as movements go, Thanos was shown to be no faster than Cap, as the number and complexity of movements in the space of time it took Surfer to reach them are nearly identical. The only difference is that Thanos was able to see Surfer. It had nothing to do with reaction, and it certainly isn't viable evidence that he can deal with a rapid fire series of attacks at FTL speeds.

At best, it's OK evidence of Thanos being able to perceive FTL motion (but not react to it and certainly not fight at that speed). At worst, it's evidence that even with a one light year and 2-3 second headstart, Thanos is leagues slower than Surfer. And on average, it signifies nothing.

I know that you're committed to making this one bit of evidence work, and I commend you for that. If there were a mountain of evidence in support of Thanos being able to fight and react to FTL speeds, I might give this the benefit of the doubt. But as the ONLY comic evidence EVER presented in support of Thanos' "godlike" reflexes, it's incredibly poor.

Originally posted by demigawd
It's in a different frame starting from the moment Surfer started moving. From the time Surfer started his travel to the time he finished it, both Thanos AND Cap changed positions and expressions significantly, and equally. Your "evidence" hinges on the fact that Thanos was looking behind him at Surfer flying off while Cap is not. Why would Cap care? He's got a mission to fulfill. The silver streak is clearly there even after Cap completes his punch. Cap is FOCUSED on Thanos. It's a huge leap in logic and judgment to say that Cap is frozen in frame while Thanos is reacting. There's simply not enough of a case to make that kind of conclusion.

Compare the three pages we've posted frame by frame. Thanos is preparing his punch, Cap is standing there, about to take it. The punch moves closer and closer to Cap's face, which just alters slightly. Then we see a light in Thanos' eye - it's the Surfer coming (advanced warning). It's a good case that Thanos can detect FTL movement, putting him in such elite company as Deathstroke.

Then Surfer flies in, misses, and continues to fly off. By then, both the positions of Thanos AND Cap have changed significantly. Thanos looks BEHIND him with a clearly panicked look on his face (but his fist is in the same general position!!!), while Cap is about to punch him. The silver streak in space is still there even as Cap punches Thanos.

As far as movements go, Thanos was shown to be no faster than Cap, as the number and complexity of movements in the space of time it took Surfer to reach them are nearly identical. The only difference is that Thanos was able to see Surfer. It had nothing to do with reaction, and it certainly isn't viable evidence that he can deal with a rapid fire series of attacks at FTL speeds.

At best, it's OK evidence of Thanos being able to perceive FTL motion (but not react to it and certainly not fight at that speed). At worst, it's evidence that even with a one light year and 2-3 second headstart, Thanos is leagues slower than Surfer. And on average, it signifies nothing.

I know that you're committed to making this one bit of evidence work, and I commend you for that. If there were a mountain of evidence in support of Thanos being able to fight and react to FTL speeds, I might give this the benefit of the doubt. But as the ONLY comic evidence EVER presented in support of Thanos' "godlike" reflexes, it's incredibly poor.

You're still not making any sense.

If cap changes postures subsequent to surfer being detected (by him or thanos), then yes he has FTL speed. You have no evidence to support this proposition, and neither do I. All we see is a couple frames of cap's head, THEN IN A LATER FRAME a gleam in thanos' eye. And finally cap in a different posture than he was TWO PAGES AGO, BEFORE surefer had even started moving, AND BEFORE the gleam (can't be a light, since surfer is moving FTL) in thanos' eye.

This proves that cap has the capability to move and change postures, but nothing more. I don't think cap's ability to move is that controversial.

In any case, this stuff is irrelevant.

Thanos' hand is lowered and head turned when surfer is at most a few feet away. Unless you are saying

1. thanos was in this position before he detected surfer (the "dance a jig in the middle of a slap" theory), or

2. thanos can detect surfer from hundreds of trillions of miles away (the "universal cosmic awareness theory", which would beg the question as to why thanos didn't know where surfer/warlock were BEFORE the dash)

then he has godlike reflexes. Which of 1 or 2 are you saying? IT seems like you're saying some version of 1, but making an exception for thanos' head? (which apparently had a "panicked look".....? how can you tell with a mug like that, lol) So thanos' neck moves at FTL but his hand does not? That makes no sense.

When someone is moving at 30 million times the speed of light, there is no such thing as a "head start." By the time you actually detect him (which should not be possible through normal vision, obviously), he will arrive in 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds. Actually less than that, but you get the point. If you think an 0.0000(etc)1 head start means thanos is a slow showing, when he is still able to react DESPITE BEING SURPRISED, then thanos must be the fastest being in comics. Because I've never seen anyone react to a blitz like that. Show me a scan of anyone from any comic doing so.

I'm not committed to any evidence or position. I'm committed to logic and common sense.

I should have said "trillions of miles" not hundreds of trillions.

"which would beg the question as to why thanos didn't know where surfer/warlock were BEFORE the dash"

Playing devil's advocate he may have actually known they were there. Warlock asks Surfer what he sees from his position, and he says, "Thanos, hes looking this way", which always implied to me he was watching them. However he has the gauntlet at full power at that point so of course he would be able to see them, I doubt he retained that ability when he powered down to just the power gem.