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Out of all the star wars characters the only one who exhibited real Japanese sword skills was Darth Sidious. This was pretty amazing since Gillard said that all the Jedi and Sith characters exhibited Japanese sword skills.

ok.

Originally posted by jpsmith5
Out of all the star wars characters the only one who exhibited real Japanese sword skills was Darth Sidious. This was pretty amazing since Gillard said that all the Jedi and Sith characters exhibited Japanese sword skills.

This is a line of bullshit.

Name one style of Japanese Sword fighting that the other characters exhibited.

Show me where Sidious uses a Japanese sword style. If he DOES use a Japanese fightin style, it must be learned from a blind village idiot, because he doesn't swing the blade properly or use it correctly. No one swings a katana over their head and twirls, striking over their shoulder, much less the little Psycho Crusher ballerina move he does.

First of all, do you have any experience with Japanese sword fighting and the Japanese Martial Art System? Because if you do you can tell me what the twirling over the head refers to in the Kenjutsu System.

Originally posted by jpsmith5
First of all, do you have any experience with Japanese sword fighting and the Japanese Martial Art System? Because if you do you can tell me what the twirling over the head refers to in the Kenjutsu System.

You're a fool! Do you even realize how many Sword styles use above the head strikes? Hell, even Dooku's form, which is based apon Spanish fencing uses some above the head strikes. For christs sakes, American Military Saberists back in the days used those kind of strikes! The Samurai style of Kenjutsu is not the only style to use these kind of strikes.

Oh and by the way, Sidious doesn't use alot of Japanese swordplay in his battle with Mace Windu. Shit, even his stabs with the stabs to Agen and Sassee are both based on Ancient Japanese Swordplay.

So the question here is....

Do you have any experience with Japanese sword fighting, let alone ANY sword fighting of any sort?

Evidently, since you know nothing about the Way of the Japanese Sword. The constant twirling overhead is more of a psychological move to draw your opponent in to expose them to a fatal blow. It's a method of Togakure Ryu which is known as Taijitsu Bikenjutsu. Simply, put it's a movement and posture of the Ninja Sword.

Originally posted by jpsmith5
Evidently, since you know nothing about the Way of the Japanese Sword. The constant twirling overhead is more of a psychological move to draw your opponent in to expose them to a fatal blow. It's a method of Togakure Ryu which is known as Taijitsu Bikenjutsu. Simply, put it's a movement and posture of the Ninja Sword.

Wow, someone put crack in their Cereal. The twist over the head is a move done to try to slip awareness off your opponent to catch him off guard for a lower body swing and it is not a Japanese method. And the Ninja sword would NEVER EVER have a strike like that. They consist of Fast and accurate follow through strikes. They are very blunt and striked with their swords. The swordplay of Ninjitsu would never consist of an overhead slice. That is just a statement filled over the brim with moot, my friend.

How do you know LordSorgo what Ninjitsu consists of. Who did you study from b/c there is only one legitimate Ninjitsu Grandmaster left in the world.

Originally posted by jpsmith5
How do you know LordSorgo what Ninjitsu consists of. Who did you study from b/c there is only one legitimate Ninjitsu Grandmaster left in the world.

...

...

...

A master is there to teach the style, you can learn about it from books or hell even the internet. And um...idk shit about Japanese sword styles but Revan's stance always reminded me of a samurai's stance.

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/3195/fake3yv.jpg

How stupid can you be?


For one, the title of "Grandmaster" is from Chinese Martial Arts. Someone who has mastered Ninjitsu would be a "Jonin" you FOOL!

And there is over hundreds of "Jonin" left in Japan and around the world.

Come back when you learn some real knowledge about anything circulating to sword fighting, then we may talk.

LordSorgo, your the fool. The Ninjitsu lived by the code of Bushido but, they lived more by the way of Suz Tzu. There they trained in the arts of war. Their art is based upon a great Chinese military text written by a general named Sun Tzu, The Art of War. . You first must learn the history of the Ninja before you go posting ignorant threads like you did. And yes the title of Grandmaster is bestowed upon the practictioner with the fullest knowledge of the art. I studied in Japan for 16 years under Ninjitsu Grandmaster Masaaki Hatsumi in Hokkaido, Japan and I studied under Bushido Master Takamatsu in Akashi in the Hyogo Province. It's from Hatsumi that I learned the history of the Ninja and it's Takamatsu that told me that Hatsumi was the last legitimate Ninjitsu Grandmaster left. So who did you learn from and where did you get your info from.

Well I happened to learn martial arts from Jesus. So you and your grandmaster can go f*ck yourself.

Amen.

Sorgo, I never thought I'd see you posting something I approved of.

However, I had heard there was one Jonin left in the modern world and happened to see a special on the deal on TV, something on Discovery. But that's besides the point... None of Sidious' moves are Kenjutsu-based entirely and most are quite bizarre.

For one thing, Nick Gillard himself said that Sidious' style was ambiguous and that all the lightsaber duels of the PT (As opposed to teh strictly kendo OT) would be a combination of (And I quote) "all the great styles" from around the world. This includes Spanish fencing, as shown partially by Dooku, Ray Park's own expertise in the form of Chinese staff fighting, and even some Korean swordfighting manuervers, like kicks etc. Japanese IS included, a homage to Lucas' inspirations for the original trilogy. However, Sidious himself does not use his blade at all like a practitioner of Kenjutsu would.

Oh, and I forgot this... What kata is this now?

man....i jus watch the movies... this is some intersting stuff yall talkin bout but i dont read up on stuff like this. come to think of it i dont even read EU. awwww whateve most of it's bullshit no way.

Originally posted by jpsmith5
LordSorgo, your the fool. The Ninjitsu lived by the code of Bushido but, they lived more by the way of Suz Tzu. There they trained in the arts of war. Their art is based upon a great Chinese military text written by a general named Sun Tzu, The Art of War. . You first must learn the history of the Ninja before you go posting ignorant threads like you did. And yes the title of Grandmaster is bestowed upon the practictioner with the fullest knowledge of the art. I studied in Japan for 16 years under Ninjitsu Grandmaster Masaaki Hatsumi in Hokkaido, Japan and I studied under Bushido Master Takamatsu in Akashi in the Hyogo Province. It's from Hatsumi that I learned the history of the Ninja and it's Takamatsu that told me that Hatsumi was the last legitimate Ninjitsu Grandmaster left. So who did you learn from and where did you get your info from.

Yet you call the Ninjitsu "Jonin" a Grandmaster again! Saying that you studied Ninjitsu for sixteen years is a STAGGERING LIE WHEN YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW THE PROPER TITLE FOR YOUR MASTER! By the way, just because Soke Masaaki Hatsumi is a famous Ninjitsu art practicioner does not mean he is the last good "Jonin" around.

Anyone who has the slightest knowledge about martial arts knows that the Jonin of Ninjitsu are not called Grandmasters! The Ninjitsu stick to the ancient traditions of "Ninpo" and have the highest rank of Ninja called "Jonin".

Wow, you studied under all these highly skilled Masters of Martial arts and swordplay, yet you're lingering around a MOVIE FORUM?

WELL, WELL, WELL let us read this...

The Ninjitsu lived by the code of Bushido but, they lived more by the way of Suz Tzu. There they trained in the arts of war. Their art is based upon a great Chinese military text written by a general named Sun Tzu, The Art of War


Wanna hear something really weird? The Ninja lived under the Code of Conduct named "Ninpo". The "Bushido" was the Code of Conduct for the Samurai. You should know this, YOU APPARENTLY STUDIED IT FOR SIXTEEN YEARS!

The Art of War is not even a quarter of the part of the Ninpo. If it was the whole thing, i am guessing the Ninja would be Chinese, because they would be following the purity of a Chinese code, Right? But i am assuming you know this because of your sixteen years of training you supposedly had.

Wanna hear something else that is extremely akward? You said in one of your other posts that the Over the head sword swing was a part of a Ninja swordplay technique. Well then, explain this to me.....

Why in the hell would a Ninja, who has a primary commodation in Assassanation techniques, use an over the head swordplay move to suprise attack an opponent? I am guessing the Ninja wants his Opponent to see his sword? Or wait..... ACTUALLY, NO HE DOES NOT!


For someone who trained under a "Jonin", you sure lack A HELL of alot of knowledge.

LordSorgo, your the fool.

Sorry, but you're the fool.

I never thought I'd say this after one of Sorgo's posts but

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/3579/owned66af.jpg

So much anger.
I think Darth Janus summed up all the important points, but let me add that there are overhead sword swinging moves in many samurai disciplins. And why are so many people using Ninja as examples? Samurai pwn Ninja, because samurai fight for honor, and Ninja fight for money.

Seriously just stop posting, we're discussing the fighting styles, not why they're fighting. And um some Samurai were just body guards or mercenaries for wealthy and selfish Shoguns. Doesn't sound very honorable to me.

That's not the point... Noen of Sidious' overhead moves are directly reflective of Japanese sword techniques. Hell, just picking up a Japanese sword influences how you swing it. But Gillard said lightsaber duelling was closer to kendo in the OT because of the blade shape, and he began to expand on that with the PT, using techniques more varied. He may have used SOME Japanese techniques, but not nearly as many as jpsmith implies.

And that is a good point... Since when is Bushido, Sun TZu, Ninpo and al that tied in together?

Samurai could be virtuous or treacherous, depending on the loyalty of that particular day.

Since Smith's grandmaster said so.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
That's not the point... Noen of Sidious' overhead moves are directly reflective of Japanese sword techniques. Hell, just picking up a Japanese sword influences how you swing it. But Gillard said lightsaber duelling was closer to kendo in the OT because of the blade shape, and he began to expand on that with the PT, using techniques more varied. He may have used SOME Japanese techniques, but not nearly as many as jpsmith implies.

And that is a good point... Since when is Bushido, Sun TZu, Ninpo and al that tied in together?

Since when is Bushido, Sun TZu, Ninpo and al that tied in together?

Since our Sixteen-Year-Ninja-Trained "jpsmith5" says that that overhead move is from Ninjitsu, which is horribly false information.

Originally posted by JediMusician
So much anger.
I think Darth Janus summed up all the important points, but let me add that there are overhead sword swinging moves in many samurai disciplins. And why are so many people using Ninja as examples? Samurai pwn Ninja, because samurai fight for honor, and Ninja fight for money.

samurai fight for honor, and Ninja fight for money.

That is THE MOST pathetic sentence i have EVER seen in MY LIFE.

Yes, ninja fight for money. Unless they're turtles... Than it's pizza.

jpsmith5 hides his Birthday.... This is akward.... I guarentee he is probably sixteen years old, which means he was doing Ninjitsu training in his moms stomach.... WHAT A TRUE NINJA!

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Yes, ninja fight for money. Unless they're turtles... Than it's pizza.

No.... He said Samurai fight for Honor. Not all Ninja assassinate for flow. Not all Samurai fight with honor.

Well, of course not. I know a little bit about samurai, particularly about the Sengoku-jidai era.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Well, of course not. I know a little bit about samurai, particularly about the Sengoku-jidai era.

As do i, i guess that would be why i am currently posting around in the Star Wars forum.

Oh really?

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Oh really?

Indeed.

I was trying to get more information out of you regarding that. Apparently it didn't work...

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
I was trying to get more information out of you regarding that. Apparently it didn't work...

Don't be silly. Nothing subliminal works over the internet.

*Waves hand* I'm right and you're wrong. These aren't the droids you're looking for. And give me five bucks.

-Pulls a Watto- What are you waving that hand for? And no, credits are not good enough.

Damn. Well, aggressive negotiations time.

*Calls his lawyer*

Oh yeah?

-Speed dials DA-

It's on!

*Calls this guy*

(Sorry, i was away playing Episode III )

The Sengoku period of Japan was a large Civil war age. What more do you want, Janus?

I thought you were refering to this forum as relating to that. Other than "jedi" being derived from "jidai", I couldn't find a connection.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
I thought you were refering to this forum as relating to that. Other than "jedi" being derived from "jidai", I couldn't find a connection.

Jidai Geki is the Japanese term that Lucas derived Jedi from. Jidai Geki means period drama, or a Japanese soap opera. Lucas had heard the word while staying in Japan and liked it.

I was born in Japan and have been studying the Japanese arts all my life and I'am glad to finally see someone who has gone to Japan and learned one of our most sacred arts and culture. I have to say right on jpsmith 52.I just recently moved to the U.S. and found out that Westerners don't know much about Japanese culture or even understand the Japanese Martial Arts system. And to Darth Janus and LordSorgo yes the highest ranking Ninjitsu practictioner is given the title Grandmaster. Ninja didn't follow traditional Japanese fighting styles or customs they merely created their own system and own code from the first Ninjitsu Minamoto Yoshitsune who was taught by Buddhist monks who educated him in the Chinese book The Art of War by Sun Tzu. You can only obtain that title of Grandmaster by defeating all other students past and present on a ceremonial ground by the choosing of the Grandmaster and thereby ordained with the Ninja Ken that has been passed down for centuries. Finally, Grandmaster Masaaki Hatsumi is the last line of Ninjitsu Grandmasters. He is legendary and I suggest Darth Janus and LordSorgo that you take a trip down to Japan and learn the true history of the Ninjitsu warriors.

Originally posted by Samuraidefiant
I was born in Japan and have been studying the Japanese arts all my life and I'am glad to finally see someone who has gone to Japan and learned one of our most sacred arts and culture. I have to say right on jpsmith 52.I just recently moved to the U.S. and found out that Westerners don't know much about Japanese culture or even understand the Japanese Martial Arts system. And to Darth Janus and LordSorgo yes the highest ranking Ninjitsu practictioner is given the title Grandmaster. Ninja didn't follow traditional Japanese fighting styles or customs they merely created their own system and own code from the first Ninjitsu Minamoto Yoshitsune who was taught by Buddhist monks who educated him in the Chinese book The Art of War by Sun Tzu. You can only obtain that title of Grandmaster by defeating all other students past and present on a ceremonial ground by the choosing of the Grandmaster and thereby ordained with the Ninja Ken that has been passed down for centuries. Finally, Grandmaster Masaaki Hatsumi is the last line of Ninjitsu Grandmasters. He is legendary and I suggest Darth Janus and LordSorgo that you take a trip down to Japan and learn the true history of the Ninjitsu warriors.


Now that i have read through that staggering bullshit, i shall counter attack your silly arse.

For starters

The highest ranking Ninjitsu master is not given the rank of Grandmaster. It completly breaks the Ninpo code. COMPLETLY!

The only reason Hatsumi is called Grandmaster is because he completly mastered the Martial Arts, but he is not a certified Ninja and unless you have traveled the world and looked at every single spot on the entire earth, than you do not know whether he is the last remaining Jonin Ninjitsu Master. He is just a popular Jonin. Actually, he does not deserve the title of Jonin because he does not abide by the Ninpo code because he declares himself a Grandmaster.

Ninjitsu Warriors

Ninja's are not Warriors....

Definition of "Warriors":
One who engages is combat using aggression and power.

Well, um.... Ninjas use aggression and power now? I thought they used stealth and speed? Oh but wait.... You're another experience Martial artist..... Coincidentally.

I just recently moved to the U.S. and found out that Westerners don't know much about Japanese culture or even understand the Japanese Martial Arts system

Then you are a stereotypical racist practicioner.... Not a martial artist! Here, let me be racist as well....

If you don't like us "Westerners" i suggest you head back east and finish your plate of rice.


Ninja didn't follow traditional Japanese fighting styles or customs they merely created their own system and own code from the first Ninjitsu Minamoto Yoshitsune who was taught by Buddhist monks who educated him in the Chinese book The Art of War by Sun Tzu.

Ninpo practically completly follows Samurai tradition, which everyone knows is Traditional Japanese arts/Fighting styles, so you are basically saying that Samurai's do not follow Traditional Japanese arts or fighting styles. But haven't you been studying Japanese martial arts for years?

And like i said before, if the entire Ninpo was entirely based apon Sun Tzu's lore, the Ninja would be chinese! And the Ninja "changed" the Bushido code, they didn't "make" anything, Mr. Experienced Japanese Ninja boy.

You can only obtain that title of Grandmaster by defeating all other students past and present on a ceremonial ground by the choosing of the Grandmaster and thereby ordained with the Ninja Ken that has been passed down for centuries

Wrong again. The rank of Grandmaster is obtained if you completly master every essence and practice of a certain Martial Art..... Or if you're a real good chess player....

I'am glad to finally see someone who has gone to Japan and learned one of our most sacred arts and culture

Apparently, you were born and raised there but you don't know dick all.


Now, i suppose you still think us Westerners are somewhat unknowledgable to that overrated culture of yours?

Wow, looks like i have had a first hand introduction to how rude homegrown Easterners are.

In am a real mexican from mexico. I eat tacos. And rice. And I am a master of mexican tiger claw ninja skills. *drools*

All bs aside, I can answer this question. Sideous fights with a style called "Hollywood Choreography"

Originally posted by InsaneNoodlyGuy
In am a real mexican from mexico. I eat tacos. And rice. And I am a master of mexican tiger claw ninja skills. *drools*

All bs aside, I can answer this question. Sideous fights with a style called "Hollywood Choreography"


I'll write you down on the list of "Sarcastic moronic fools" before someone else takes away the pleasure of doing so....


That Choreography involves moves that were taken by sword fighting styles, Correct?

Pretty much what i thought.

Yes, but because of the meshing togetehr of styles movie choreography uses, not to mention the overlap of styles sharing similiar moves, you can't really attribute it to any one style of swordplay. Hence I shuffle it under the style of hollywood choreography.

Originally posted by InsaneNoodlyGuy
Yes, but because of the meshing togetehr of styles movie choreography uses, not to mention the overlap of styles sharing similiar moves, you can't really attribute it to any one style of swordplay. Hence I shuffle it under the style of hollywood choreography.

You continously miss the point. Whether there is more than one point, the fact still remains that the Choreography consists of Sword styles. You repeated yourself, just with more wording.

Actually, I'm unsure what your point is. Of course it's based on sword styles. If they based lighsabres on spear styles, it woudn't make much sense.

Originally posted by InsaneNoodlyGuy
Actually, I'm unsure what your point is. Of course it's based on sword styles. If they based lighsabres on spear styles, it woudn't make much sense.

Why not? They based it on Lightsaber sword styles.

(Ignore this post)

Basing it on spearing styles would consist of alot of jabs. It would make perfect sense.

Originally posted by Samuraidefiant
I was born in Japan and have been studying the Japanese arts all my life and I'am glad to finally see someone who has gone to Japan and learned one of our most sacred arts and culture. I have to say right on jpsmith 52.I just recently moved to the U.S. and found out that Westerners don't know much about Japanese culture or even understand the Japanese Martial Arts system. And to Darth Janus and LordSorgo yes the highest ranking Ninjitsu practictioner is given the title Grandmaster. Ninja didn't follow traditional Japanese fighting styles or customs they merely created their own system and own code from the first Ninjitsu Minamoto Yoshitsune who was taught by Buddhist monks who educated him in the Chinese book The Art of War by Sun Tzu. You can only obtain that title of Grandmaster by defeating all other students past and present on a ceremonial ground by the choosing of the Grandmaster and thereby ordained with the Ninja Ken that has been passed down for centuries. Finally, Grandmaster Masaaki Hatsumi is the last line of Ninjitsu Grandmasters. He is legendary and I suggest Darth Janus and LordSorgo that you take a trip down to Japan and learn the true history of the Ninjitsu warriors.

Once again, I was trained by Jesus, so you and your grandmaster can go f*ck yourselves.

Uh, no. Iit woulnd't make sense. At all. On account of a lightsaber being a sword, and a spear being a spear.

Wow, a heated argument that uses reasoning! Quite entertaining...

Originally posted by InsaneNoodlyGuy
Uh, no. Iit woulnd't make sense. At all. On account of a lightsaber being a sword, and a spear being a spear.

Ah, yet you STILL do not understand. This is quite entertaining. You can use a Sword using Spear technique and a spear using sword technique. There, i put it in the most basic form. Although i do not think i can continue to break it down to be on level with that knotted intellegence of yours.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
It's on!

*Calls this guy* LMAO!

Originally posted by LordSorgo
Apparently, you were born and raised there but you don't know dick all.
You can't deny him. He knows Japanese Karate.

Gasp, I don't see how that changes anything...

Why do you guys even bother posting if you don't know about martial arts? Just shut up, you'll look smarter..

There are 3 'grand masters' of ninjutsu. One is Hatsumi Masaaki, another is Tanemura Shoto, the other is Manaka Unsui.

All eventually trace their skills to 1 person named Takamatsu Toshitsugu who passed various ryu to his students.

Hatsumi heads the Bujinkan which is a large organization teaching 9 ryu, with about 5 of them being strongly linked to ninja of the Iga province in Japan.

Tanemura heads the Genbukan and teaches a large number of ryu, as he holds many menkyo kaiden or 'masterships'. He also teaches ninja ryu as well as standard samurai ryu techniques (such as asayama ichiden, and hontai yoshin takagi)

Then there is Manaka, I don't know much about him but he tends to focus more on the 'samurai' side and trains very heavily in the basics. His school is called Jinenkan. He teaches one ninja ryu ha which is of course Togakure ryu. However it is not as prevelant in Jinenkan as it is in the other "kans".

Spinning a sword over your head is a sure way to chop your fingers off. I don't know of any kenjutsu ryu that have techniques in which a sword is spun in the manner that a bo is spun. If indeed one ever existed, its founders probably killed themselves trying the techniques.

Generally the only time the sword is held above or at head level is in a kamae (posture) called daijodan or jodan no kamae. There's no other reason to have the sword up there except for a last resort blocking maneuver..

Some samurai were ninja and therefore you can conclude some ninja lived by the code of bushido.

However I strongly doubt that most members of Iga and Koga province families followed bushido, as ninpo is far more logical and to be honest, successful. People of modern day societies rely on many of the principles found in ninpo. Almost no one relies on the principles found in bushido- though the ones that do are very notable.

Samurai are not all they're cracked up to be. There are many cases of bad samurai, samurai who kill their lords, and all kinds of other treachury. Be real- these were human beings subject to life/death decisions all the time. They did what they needed to, and tried to live by bushido if they could. The stone headed ones did everything for honor. The smarter ones just did whatever it took to win.

As far as the word Grandmaster is concerned, you sound like you have crawled from an Ashida Kim book, so I'm just going to say everything you have written is wrong. The word Grandmaster is roughly translated to "Souke" in Japanese which means "head of the family". This word has been used for centuries to describe the person who has inherited ALL techniques from a ryu from the previous grandmaster. It also means he can do ANYTHING he wants with the ryu, including disband them, add things to them, removing this from them- ANYTHING HE WANTS.

---------------
IMPORTANT
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Ninja have nothing to do with Sun Tzu and the Art Of War. This garbage is taught by a man proven to be a fraud under the alias Ashida Kim, real name Cristopher Hunter.

Some ryu (schools of techniques) evolved from Chinese arts very long ago, such as Gyokko ryu as far back as 1000-1100AD. However from that point on they are strictly Japanese. Strategy matters sometimes have similarities to the Art of War, however sticking closely to the methods of that book would destroy the purpose of having ninjutsu wouldn't it? The idea is to be unconventional, not the same as everyone else.

---------------

By the way, I am a member of the Genbukan, previously I was in the Bujinkan. There are numerous ancient texts (written in Japanese) that depict various elements of ninjutsu, which verify the authenticity of the art in its present form. If you're that interested, ninpo.org is a good place to start.

Now please stop being idiotic, and research before you post. You could have learned everything mentioned in my post with 30 seconds of googling.

Thank you.

Dooku's form II comes from the Spanish style of fencing, "La Destreza Verdadera," which isn't Japanese.
And I am learning this form of fencing which is pretty cool.

Well, they don't fight like any swordsman on earth, they fight much better, because their sword has no weight, cuts everything and allows them to do very interesting things

I train myself in my own type of fencing, yeah!!!

and sidious uses form 6: niman a blend of the forms shii cho, soresu, djem so (shien), and ataru. Very good form.

Originally posted by Darth Nhilus
and sidious uses form 6: niman a blend of the forms shii cho, soresu, djem so (shien), and ataru. Very good form.

a)
He doesn't use form 6.

b)
This form is worthless. All form 6 users died on Geonosis. Must have some reason.

If anything, it seems like he uses some fekked up form of Ataru, since he leaps and spins from time to time, although he adds in his own stabs (Which he does every five seconds, a horribly telegraphed stab)