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So, Daredevil faces a gauntlet on the rooftops of New York City...


1) Bullseye
2) Black Panther
3) Spider-man
4) Wolverine
5) Sabretooth
6) Cyclops

He has 20 minutes rest/prep between each battle...

Assuming the prep doesn't include outside help, he loses at spidey or maybe BP

I reckon he could reach Wolevrine or Creed mysel;f. He's beatem spidey AT LEAST twice...

1) Bullseye- gets his ass kicked 10/10 (DD wins)
2) Black Panther - DD loses 7/10 if BPs in his armor
3) Spider-man - Spidey beats him 6/10
4) Wolverine - Wolverine curbstomps him 10/10
5) Sabretooth - Same as Wolverine
6) Cyclops - DD is screwed, badly
Nice sig btw Hellmaster

Thanks, made by Juggs66666...

Spider-Man for sure. But he would probably pull a win out of BP 3/10

1) Bullseye - DD 8/10.
2) Black Panther - DD 6/10.
3) Spider-man - DD 6/10.
4) Wolverine - 5/10. Could go either way.
5) Sabretooth - 5/10. Same as above.
6) Cyclops - Cyke 7/10.

Originally posted by General Kon-El
Spider-Man for sure. But he would probably pull a win out of BP 3/10 Have you EVER read a DD comic in your life!? Jrodslam has it about right, actualy... mybe a little generous against logan and Creed though...

How is Spider-man 6/10??

He has beaten Spidey more times than he has lost to him... about 3/5 times I believe!

Originally posted by HellMaster93
Have you EVER read a DD comic in your life!? Jrodslam has it about right, actualy... mybe a little generous against logan and Creed though...


I have read lots of DD comics and I still think he doesn't get past BP or definitely Spidey without a lot more prep

Originally posted by Sam Z
How is Spider-man 6/10??

I say that because although they both hold back when fighting each other, Spiderman only does so in strength and not in speed. Even if Spiderman were to use all his strength, it wouldnt help him get a win on DD. Especially sinse Spidey would never land a solid hit on DD.

DD holds back in actual skills when fighting Spidey. He doesnt have much trouble dodging Spideys punches. Daredevil CAN land solid hits on Spidey. Thats the major difference between the two when they fight each other. Daredevil can take Spidey out with one move if he wanted to. If Spderman decided to hit Daredevil with all his might, he still wouldnt land the hit to kill him.

DD has beaten Webs SEVERAL times... once admttedly whan he was under the control of the Ringmaster guy...

Originally posted by jrodslam
I say that because although they both hold back when fighting each other, Spiderman only does so in strength and not in speed. Even if Spiderman were to use all his strength, it wouldnt help him get a win on DD. Especially sinse Spidey would never land a solid hit on DD.

DD holds back in actual skills when fighting Spidey. He doesnt have much trouble dodging Spideys punches. Daredevil CAN land solid hits on Spidey. Thats the major difference between the two when they fight each other. Daredevil can take Spidey out with one move if he wanted to. If Spderman decided to hit Daredevil with all his might, he still wouldnt land the hit to kill him.


Apart from the fact that spidey is physically superior to DD in every way...... And the fact that Spidey has taken down faster and stronger opponents than DD. That Spidey can dodge everything DD throws at him and his greater speed/reflexes/agility and superhuman attributes overall gives him a huge edge in this fight.

Don't get me wrong I'm a fan of Daredevil but he is pretty much screwed against Spidey.

Spidey wins 8/10 If I am being generous to DD

Originally posted by HellMaster93
DD has beaten Webs SEVERAL times... once admttedly whan he was under the control of the Ringmaster guy...


One of those times spidey was fighting sloppy because he was angry about the whole Jean Dewolf death storyline. It's almost as if Daredevil needs a combination of plot devices and Bad writing to win against spidey

I still don't see how DD can beat Spidey if Spidey isn't pulling his punches. DD stops at 3 for sure, but he could be stopped at 2.

Originally posted by willRules
Apart from the fact that spidey is physically superior to DD in every way...... And the fact that Spidey has taken down faster and stronger opponents than DD. That Spidey can dodge everything DD throws at him and his greater speed/reflexes/agility and superhuman attributes overall gives him a huge edge in this fight.

Don't get me wrong I'm a fan of Daredevil but he is pretty much screwed against Spidey.

Spidey wins 8/10 If I am being generous to DD

Daredevil has fought people physically superior and beat them still. Has Spidey fought and taken down people who are as skilled as Daredevil AND has radar like him to when he knows his next move before its even executed? Daredevil's radar>spidey sense. Technically Daredevil would know Spideys going to throw a punch before Spidey would know Daredevils going to throw one.

Daredevil would be screwed against other opponents possibly but not Spidey.

Daredevil.
He can prob. beat Invisible Women...seen him do it actually in the Gamemaster comic.
Loses to the Red Skull though.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Daredevil has fought people physically superior and beat them still. Has Spidey fought and taken down people who are as skilled as Daredevil AND has radar like him to when he knows his next move before its even executed?

Spidey has beaten opponents faster than himself and stronger than himself.

Hierarchy of physical abilities goes like this......

Many of spidey's Opponents >>>>>> Spidey>>>>>>>>Daredevil

Originally posted by jrodslam
Daredevil's radar>spidey sense. Technically Daredevil would know Spideys going to throw a punch before Spidey would know Daredevils going to throw one.

I disagree. IMO spidey's spider-sense is faster.

1) DD sense makes him aware of the threat (Amongst the other surroundings).
2) DD must then choose what action to take to avoid the threat
3)And then execute that action.

Whereas spidey has one less step.
1) The spider-sense tells spidey how to avoid the threat.
2) Spidey must then execute that action.

Also their surroundings make a huge difference. If daredevil fights in a church, his radar sense becomes confuzzled, like in the Guardian Devil storyline. Whereas spidey can operate in various arenas. (For example in his first issue he found the chameleon, in pitch black, using his spider-sense)

However the speed and efficiency of these two senses are open to much speculation and opinion so its hard to state many things relating to their senses as fact.


Like I said spidey wins 8/10 if I'm being generous to DD.

Originally posted by willRules
Spidey has beaten opponents faster than himself and stronger than himself.

Hierarchy of physical abilities goes like this......

Many of spidey's Opponents >>>>>> Spidey>>>>>>>>Daredevil

Daredevil has beaten opponents faster and stronger than himself as well. Whats your point? You mention hierarchy of abilities, but in combat, its a whole other story as shown multiple times. If one were to look at the stats its obvious that Spidey has DD outclassed. However by actually seeing how their abilities work in combat would allow people to see and believe hoe DD could beat Spidey in a battle. Its not like they would be going blow for blow which you seem to think

Originally posted by willRules I disagree. IMO spidey's spider-sense is faster.

Its ok if you think Spidey sense is faster. However fact is that DD's radar and senses are faster and more accurate/precise.

Originally posted by willRules
1) DD sense makes him aware of the threat (Amongst the other surroundings).
2) DD must then choose what action to take to avoid the threat
3)And then execute that action.

Whereas spidey has one less step.
1) The spider-sense tells spidey how to avoid the threat.
2) Spidey must then execute that action.

1. DD's senses tell him axactly what the threat is going to be and where its coming from.
2. For DD to act is almost instantaneous. You make it seem as if DD has to take seconds to contemplate what hes going to do. You cant do that while bullets, lasers and people who move faster than the eye can see are aimed for your head and body.

1. Spideys sense goes off, but he deoesnt know what the threat is nor where its coming from.
2. When the senses go off, Spidey has to look around to first see what the threat is THEN do what he has to do to avoid it. I agree that sometimes Spidey just avoids it without knowing such as dodging bullets or the such, but same goes for DD.

Originally posted by willRules
Also their surroundings make a huge difference. If daredevil fights in a church, his radar sense becomes confuzzled, like in the Guardian Devil storyline. Whereas spidey can operate in various arenas. (For example in his first issue he found the chameleon, in pitch black, using his spider-sense)

I disagree. If DD fights in a church, his senses pick out amound the many people who pose a threat by..
1. Heart rhythms.
2. Breathing patterns.
Spideys senses can be overloaded as well as shown by DD. Plus for him to locate a villain via ss, it would take him longer that it would for DD. And im not talking about in the darkness either. DD can use his smell, hearing as well as radar. Once again showing DD's senses > Spidey sense.

DD still takes the majority over Spidey.

Since when do superior senses = majority win? Just because his senses may or may not be better, doesn't mean he would win, spiderman is faster... BY ALOT, stronger.... by ALOT a sense which if worse is only by a hair. Whats Daredevil going to do? Spiderman has taken punches from the hulk, DD punching him shouldn't realistically do anything, Spiderman in a well written story should beat DD 8-9/10

Originally posted by FujiFuu
Since when do superior senses = majority win? Just because his senses may or may not be better, doesn't mean he would win, spiderman is faster... BY ALOT, stronger.... by ALOT a sense which if worse is only by a hair. Whats Daredevil going to do? Spiderman has taken punches from the hulk, DD punching him shouldn't realistically do anything, Spiderman in a well written story should beat DD 8-9/10

Its not just the senses that help DD win the majority of the fights. ITs the skills to. Daredevil can literally put Spidey down with 1 hit. Spiderman is faster yes, BUT DD's senses allow for Spidey to NEVER land a solid enough hit to ko him. No matter how fast Spidey moves, he jsut aint fast enough. Spidey hasnt even ko'd DD before. Yes, Spidey is stronger, BUT DD (thanks to senses) is able to roll with the hits to HIGHLY REDUCE their effectiveness. Hes done so with Namor, Hulk, Thing and others who are stronger than him. Spidey is no exception. Daredevil just as well written as Spidey would beat him 7/10 times.

Originally posted by HellMaster93
So, Daredevil faces a gauntlet on the rooftops of New York City...


1) Bullseye
2) Black Panther
3) Spider-man
4) Wolverine
5) Sabretooth
6) Cyclops

He has 20 minutes rest/prep between each battle...

sorry jrod, i'm with will on this one. you seem to be saying/implying this would strictly end up h2h. it could, and spidey would still win the majority imo, but along with smart use of his webbing, dd would be screwed. i've got many books where they fight. dd has admitted to being slower and physically inferior. i'm curious -- what is their most recent fight?

as for the gauntlet:

1. dd 8/10
2. dd 5-6/10
3. dd 2-3/10
4. dd 4.5/10
5. isn't sabes like a 40 tonner now with healing above wolvies?? if so, sabes kills him most of the time. old sabes, dd 6-7/10
6. depends entirely on the circumstance. if they are far enough away for cyke to use a wide beam, dd is screwed. if they are close enough dd can dodge and gets his mitts on cyke, cyke is screwed.

Spidey beats him 8/10 7/10 being generous to DD.

being able to sense spideys next move doesnt mean he will react fast enough to avoid it. Spiderman has super strength,spider sense and super human reflexes and reaction time. Meaning spidey sense wouldnt mean jack if spidey was not fast enough to react/dodge agianst a quick foe throwing punches/kicks.

Spider-Man in an urban enviroment, Wolverine if not.

Originally posted by HellMaster93
DD has beaten Webs SEVERAL times... once admttedly whan he was under the control of the Ringmaster guy...

That fight didn't go anywhere, and besides, Spider-man was hyptnotized in that particular case. Even then DD said he was having trouble dodging Spidey's blows. I'll say he gets stopped at Spider-man.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Its not just the senses that help DD win the majority of the fights. ITs the skills to. Daredevil can literally put Spidey down with 1 hit. Spiderman is faster yes, BUT DD's senses allow for Spidey to NEVER land a solid enough hit to ko him. No matter how fast Spidey moves, he jsut aint fast enough. Spidey hasnt even ko'd DD before. Yes, Spidey is stronger, BUT DD (thanks to senses) is able to roll with the hits to HIGHLY REDUCE their effectiveness. Hes done so with Namor, Hulk, Thing and others who are stronger than him. Spidey is no exception. Daredevil just as well written as Spidey would beat him 7/10 times.

Now, with this one hit KO you speak of that DD could put Spider-man down with, why would Spider-man be an exception to what you are saying? Through Spider-man's spider-sense, why could DD take him down with one hit when he could easily roll with the punch, or even better, avoid the punch all together? They are about even in terms of senses (radar and spider-sense), but Spider-man is plenty faster than Daredevil. Spider-man being taken down by one hit from DD is about as likely as it happening the other way around. Anyways, sure DD could continually roll with Spider-man's punches, but to what effect and how long could he keep it up? He couldn't be rolling with them all day. Spider-man's punches would eventually take their toll on DD's body, whether he rolled with them or not. So, problem with your theory is, that Spider-man has got just as an acute sense as Daredevil and the situation you are explaining wouldn't just apply to him.

Daredevil would most likely win...

1) Bullseye 10/10
2) Black Panther 1/10
3) Spider-man 1/10
4) Wolverine 0/10
5) Sabretooth 0/10
6) Cyclops 0/10

Originally posted by Wolverine2006
Daredevil would most likely win...

1) Bullseye 10/10
2) Black Panther 1/10
3) Spider-man 1/10
4) Wolverine 0/10
5) Sabretooth 0/10
6) Cyclops 0/10

Now, come on. You must completely lack knowledge of Daredevil and what he can do. That is underselling him by A LOT!

Ya but everytime I think of givin him respect 2 words echo in the back of my mind...BEN AFFLECK

DD was trained by Stick.
Spidey was trained by, huh

All DD has to do is get close and punch a few pressure points. Spidey just swings, DD is more tactical.

Originally posted by Wolverine2006
Ya but everytime I think of givin him respect 2 words echo in the back of my mind...BEN AFFLECK

DD gets the Venom symbiote...

Originally posted by jrodslam
Daredevil has beaten opponents faster and stronger than himself as well. Whats your point? You mention hierarchy of abilities, but in combat, its a whole other story as shown multiple times. If one were to look at the stats its obvious that Spidey has DD outclassed. However by actually seeing how their abilities work in combat would allow people to see and believe hoe DD could beat Spidey in a battle. Its not like they would be going blow for blow which you seem to think

That's a big assumption. To just ignore the fact that spidey physically outclasses Daredevil in every way and saying "Well in a fight it could be different" Doesn't really confirm or support DD in any way.

I could say Galactus is physically superior to Aunt May, but when taking into account a mixture of May's strength, speed and the way she "works in Combat" (as you describe for DD ) means she can win.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Its ok if you think Spidey sense is faster. However fact is that DD's radar and senses are faster and more accurate/precise.

NO its not fact its your opinion. More accurate? maybe. Faster? Not in my opinion.


Originally posted by jrodslam
1. DD's senses tell him axactly what the threat is going to be and where its coming from.
2. For DD to act is almost instantaneous. You make it seem as if DD has to take seconds to contemplate what hes going to do. You cant do that while bullets, lasers and people who move faster than the eye can see are aimed for your head and body.

DD's radar sense tell him of his surroundings and tells him where the danger is. It does not tell him what to do to avoid the danger, he has to think in his head "I need to duck now" or "I better jump to avoid that". DD may take only a split second to work out how to avoid it, but he still has to take that time to work it out and do it.

Whereas the Spider-sense tells Peter what to do to avoid the danger but not what the danger is. It will say to him "Duck" or "jump" without telling him why. If he does what it says he avoids the danger. He doesn't have to work out what to do to avoid it.

Originally posted by jrodslam
1. Spideys sense goes off, but he deoesnt know what the threat is nor where its coming from.
2. When the senses go off, Spidey has to look around to first see what the threat is THEN do what he has to do to avoid it. I agree that sometimes Spidey just avoids it without knowing such as dodging bullets or the such, but same goes for DD.

Spidey does not have to look round to see what it is. What would be the point in having a sense which tells you how to avoid a danger if you are gonna look round and work it out anyway? That's what DD does using his radar sense

Spidey himself said that his sense was so good that "Not even my own wife can sneak up on me." In the issue as he said this he was dodging lasers from behind him.


Originally posted by jrodslam
I disagree. If DD fights in a church, his senses pick out amound the many people who pose a threat by..
1. Heart rhythms.
2. Breathing patterns.
Spideys senses can be overloaded as well as shown by DD. Plus for him to locate a villain via ss, it would take him longer that it would for DD. And im not talking about in the darkness either. DD can use his smell, hearing as well as radar. Once again showing DD's senses > Spidey sense.

DD is probably better at locating a villain than spidey, but in a straight up fight, his senses are more likely to be overloaded than spidey. I have a DD comic where a gunshot from a crook goes off near him, upsetting his radar. Another where fumes upset his sense of smell. I have another issue where his hearing is obscured by other villains.

I don't know if there is an occasion where the average crook managed to overload the spider-sense. Green Goblin did it once with prep? Symbiotes can and Mysterio with prep can do it, but a common crook?

IMO the spider-sense is much more efficient for a straight up fight like this. The only chance DD has is his 20 minute prep, and I don't think that will help much unless he is allowed outside help......

Spidey wins at the very least 8/10

Originally posted by leonidas
sorry jrod, i'm with will on this one. you seem to be saying/implying this would strictly end up h2h. it could, and spidey would still win the majority imo, but along with smart use of his webbing, dd would be screwed. i've got many books where they fight. dd has admitted to being slower and physically inferior. i'm curious -- what is their most recent fight?

as for the gauntlet:

1. dd 8/10
2. dd 5-6/10
3. dd 2-3/10
4. dd 4.5/10
5. isn't sabes like a 40 tonner now with healing above wolvies?? if so, sabes kills him most of the time. old sabes, dd 6-7/10
6. depends entirely on the circumstance. if they are far enough away for cyke to use a wide beam, dd is screwed. if they are close enough dd can dodge and gets his mitts on cyke, cyke is screwed.

Since when did Sabretooth become a 40 tonner?

Originally posted by leonidas
sorry jrod, i'm with will on this one. you seem to be saying/implying this would strictly end up h2h. it could, and spidey would still win the majority imo, but along with smart use of his webbing, dd would be screwed. i've got many books where they fight. dd has admitted to being slower and physically inferior. i'm curious -- what is their most recent fight?

In my opinion Spidey wouls never tag DD with his webbing. Most likely it would end up h2h cause Spidey would know its useless. I believe Spidey has tried the webbing in 2 fights of the few that they have had. DD is a very humble character and gives others respect. He may have admitted being slower than Spidey which im not disputing, but he still doesnt get tagged by the punches enough to ko him. Spidey has also said that no matter how fast he is, he still cant land a solid hit on DD. Thier most recent fight was a couple of months ago in Black Cats book. They both knocked each other out. Spideys fist time i believe.

Originally posted by willRules
That's a big assumption. To just ignore the fact that spidey physically outclasses Daredevil in every way and saying "Well in a fight it could be different" Doesn't really confirm or support DD in any way.

I could say Galactus is physically superior to Aunt May, but when taking into account a mixture of May's strength, speed and the way she "works in Combat" (as you describe for DD ) means she can win.

Whats a big assumption? Youre saying Spidey physically outclasses DD and thats why he wins. Yes thats true if going by sats/abilities, but when they fight each other, no matter how fast or strong Spidey is, he cant hit DD hard enough to knock him out. Hes admitted that. All the fights they have had supports that. You mention Spidey has beat people who outclass him as well, sdo why is that not counted in Daredevil's case? You cant only look at things just to support your own arguements. You have to look at it from both angles.

Comparing Galactus to Aunt May is being rediculous now. Have they fought each other countless times? Has Aunt May ever knocked out Gal? Les nto get out of hand here.

Originally posted by willRules
NO its not fact its your opinion. More accurate? maybe. Faster? Not in my opinion.

There are a few instances that support my statement. Most recent is Secret War when Spidey and Daredevil along with other heros were being attacked my missiles. Whos senses went off first? Daredevils. And that happened a couple of times.

Originally posted by willRules
DD's radar sense tell him of his surroundings and tells him where the danger is. It does not tell him what to do to avoid the danger, he has to think in his head "I need to duck now" or "I better jump to avoid that". DD may take only a split second to work out how to avoid it, but he still has to take that time to work it out and do it.

Whereas the Spider-sense tells Peter what to do to avoid the danger but not what the danger is. It will say to him "Duck" or "jump" without telling him why. If he does what it says he avoids the danger. He doesn't have to work out what to do to avoid it.

DD's senses tells him whats going to happen before the enemy even does something. He once said that he already knows what the persons is going to do and hes already contemplating his 3rd move before the person has even completed their first. Spiderman's sense isnt on that level.

Spidey sense doesnt always tell Peter what to do. Usually, when his sense goes off, he tries to find out where its coming from. Say if a sniper is shooting at him or if theres someone in a club contemplating on attacking him.

Originally posted by willRules
Spidey does not have to look round to see what it is. What would be the point in having a sense which tells you how to avoid a danger if you are gonna look round and work it out anyway? That's what DD does using his radar sense

Spidey himself said that his sense was so good that "Not even my own wife can sneak up on me." In the issue as he said this he was dodging lasers from behind him.

If someone has a sniper rifle on a roof, most likely Spideys senses will go off before the trigger is pulled. He then looks around to see where the threat is coming from. Spidey does have to look to find out whats the threat and where its coming from. Somtimes he does just react, but somentimes he stil has to observe the area. Are you saying that doesnt happen?

Originally posted by willRules
DD is probably better at locating a villain than spidey, but in a straight up fight, his senses are more likely to be overloaded than spidey. I have a DD comic where a gunshot from a crook goes off near him, upsetting his radar. Another where fumes upset his sense of smell. I have another issue where his hearing is obscured by other villains.

In a straight up fight it all depends on the villain if DD's senses can be overloaded. Gun shots have overloaded DD's senses just as helicopter explosions didnt. Spidermans senses has been manipulated via gas, holograms and illusions. But because theyt are fighting each other, DAredevil doesnt ahve to worry about Spidey pulling a gun on him or pulling out smelly fumes and Spidey doesnt have to worry about holograms and gas.

Originally posted by willRules
I don't know if there is an occasion where the average crook managed to overload the spider-sense. Green Goblin did it once with prep? Symbiotes can and Mysterio with prep can do it, but a common crook?

The average crook may have irritated DD's senses but that didnt stop them from getting an ass whoopin. Heroes cant be invincible. Plus like stated before, DD has been in near proximity of explosions, trains etc and has been fine so a few gun shot irritants doesnt hold much weight in stoppin him the majority of the times..

Originally posted by willRules
IMO the spider-sense is much more efficient for a straight up fight like this. The only chance DD has is his 20 minute prep, and I don't think that will help much unless he is allowed outside help......

And imo, DD's senses are much more efficiant in a straight up fight than the Spidey sense. For DD to beat Spiderman, he wouldnt need 20 min prep. That would be more for guys like Wolvie or Sabes.

DD still beats Spidey more times than not.

DD will not make it pass Spider-man and spider sense is better then DD radar sense.I'm on my lap top right now and I don't have a scanner for it but I will prove that spider sense shows whats coming and where its coming from before it comes in some scans later.Also if DD rolled with SM blows all day he would tire out way before Spider-man would.DD would get tired slow down and get KTFO wile SM would still be fresh.Where is the fight if its in the city SM will have cars,bus's,trucks,and light poles to hit and throw at DD.SM could keep him at a distance.PS: I don't thank he make it pass BP DD has a better chance beating Wolverine then Black Panther or Spider-man!

Spidy sense isnt better than Radar. If DD rolled with Spideys punches hed get tired you say? well its happened and you know what happened? Daredevil LET Spidey land a hit just so he can get a quick breather, and Spidey still couldnt knock him out like you think he would. Funny isnt it.
Spidey throwing buses, trucks etc, would do nothing. You think DD would have a hard time dodging those? Plus Matt would close the gap liek he always does. What makes people think hes gonna be on dodging all fight. Hed close the gap and go on the offensive. Plus DD has good records against both Wolverine and Black Panther including Spiderman.
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/3106/daredevil017126pt.th.jpg

Originally posted by jrodslam
Spidy sense isnt better than Radar. If DD rolled with Spideys punches hed get tired you say? well its happened and you know what happened? Daredevil LET Spidey land a hit just so he can get a quick breather, and Spidey still couldnt knock him out like you think he would. Funny isnt it.
Spidey throwing buses, trucks etc, would do nothing. You think DD would have a hard time dodging those? Plus Matt would close the gap liek he always does. What makes people think hes gonna be on dodging all fight. Hed close the gap and go on the offensive. Plus DD has good records against both Wolverine and Black Panther including Spiderman.
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/3106/daredevil017126pt.th.jpg

It seems you have omitted what happens at the bottom of the page...

Originally posted by jrodslam
Whats a big assumption? Youre saying Spidey physically outclasses DD and thats why he wins. Yes thats true if going by sats/abilities, but when they fight each other, no matter how fast or strong Spidey is, he cant hit DD hard enough to knock him out. Hes admitted that. All the fights they have had supports that. You mention Spidey has beat people who outclass him as well, sdo why is that not counted in Daredevil's case? You cant only look at things just to support your own arguements. You have to look at it from both angles.

Hasn't DD also admitted that Spidey outclasses him? I would also like to see DD beat people like Venom or Lizard in a fight. Whereas I can see spidey taking people like Mr hyde (Which he did easily in one issue, whilst injured from a previous fight and was in a crowded room) , and in his fight with Bullseye, Bullseye was forced to run away.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Comparing Galactus to Aunt May is being rediculous now. Have they fought each other countless times? Has Aunt May ever knocked out Gal? Les nto get out of hand here.

Personally I think comparing spidey and DD in a fight is ridiculous but here we are

Originally posted by jrodslam
There are a few instances that support my statement. Most recent is Secret War when Spidey and Daredevil along with other heros were being attacked my missiles. Whos senses went off first? Daredevils. And that happened a couple of times.

I'm still inclined to believe that spidey's sense is quicker due to the countless times he has dodged lasers, bullets and coupled with his superhuman speed, reflexes and agility to compliment his sense.

Originally posted by jrodslam
DD's senses tells him whats going to happen before the enemy even does something. He once said that he already knows what the persons is going to do and hes already contemplating his 3rd move before the person has even completed their first. Spiderman's sense isnt on that level.

Its on the level that he is fast enough to dodge lasers, bullets and supervillains whilst simultaneously worrying about Aunt May paying her bills. And I'm sure DD will be having a hard time to work out the moves of a guy who is much faster, much more agile and has much better reflexes than him.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Spidey sense doesnt always tell Peter what to do. Usually, when his sense goes off, he tries to find out where its coming from. Say if a sniper is shooting at him or if theres someone in a club contemplating on attacking him.

Yes but thats after he has dodged the bullets and maybe dodging more gunfire. He doesn't stop to check out what is going on as the bullet is heading towards him. And the whole purpose of the spider-sense is to tell him how to avoid a threat so that's exactly what it does (with a few exceptions like symbiotes).

Whereas at some point DD has to use his sense to locate the danger, work out how to avoid it, then for him to actually do it.

Spidey doesn't need to locate the danger or how to avoid it as his spider-sense tells him how to avoid it. He just has to take action. Plus DD has to rely on peak human reflexes to achieve this, spidey can comfortably do this with superhuman agility.


Originally posted by jrodslam
If someone has a sniper rifle on a roof, most likely Spideys senses will go off before the trigger is pulled. He then looks around to see where the threat is coming from. Spidey does have to look to find out whats the threat and where its coming from. Somtimes he does just react, but somentimes he stil has to observe the area. Are you saying that doesnt happen?

Nope I'm saying his spider-sense tells him how to first avoid the danger without him necessarily realizing that the sniper is even there. He can rely on his spider-sense to avoid the danger whilst he locates the threat. Whereas DD has to use his radar sense to know there is a threat, then decide how to dodge, react, then to actually do it.

If a sniper fired at Spidey and spidey didn't know the sniper was there he would be fine thanks to his spider-sense. If the same happened with DD then he'd be screwed because he has to locate the threat and work out a way to avoid it in time. The spider-sense does the latter for spidey.

Originally posted by jrodslam
In a straight up fight it all depends on the villain if DD's senses can be overloaded. Gun shots have overloaded DD's senses just as helicopter explosions didnt. Spidermans senses has been manipulated via gas, holograms and illusions. But because theyt are fighting each other, DAredevil doesnt ahve to worry about Spidey pulling a gun on him or pulling out smelly fumes and Spidey doesnt have to worry about holograms and gas.

Nope all DD has to worry about is a guy who can dodge every one of his blows, is physically superior to him by far in every single way, can match his range with webbing and can take off his head with one hit. Even assuming that what you said about spidey having to land numerous hits and DD just one (Which I entirely disagree with) was true, I still think spidey's superhuman reflexes would put him above DD and his superhuman strength could take DD down eventually, assuming DD was fast enough to dodge a guy much faster and more agile than him.


Originally posted by jrodslam
The average crook may have irritated DD's senses but that didnt stop them from getting an ass whoopin. Heroes cant be invincible. Plus like stated before, DD has been in near proximity of explosions, trains etc and has been fine so a few gun shot irritants doesnt hold much weight in stoppin him the majority of the times..

I don't disagree with that. That's one of the reasons I think DD is such a great character. He has had sooooo many obstacles in his life that he has managed to overcome and this is clearly represented by the fact he is one of the very few heroes not noted for his extraordinary powers but his weakness, the fact he is blind.

Originally posted by jrodslam
And imo, DD's senses are much more efficiant in a straight up fight than the Spidey sense. For DD to beat Spiderman, he wouldnt need 20 min prep. That would be more for guys like Wolvie or Sabes.

AS far as I am concerned he can have 20 hours of prep, but unless he pulls extra help from other heroes or an anti-spider-man device from his anus (Like the writer of the Sin Eater storyline with the death of Jean Dewolf) DD is losing this.

And as for his senses being more efficient, I can only imagining him using them to smell defeat quicker than the average person

Spidey wins at the very least 8/10

Originally posted by batdude123
It seems you have omitted what happens at the bottom of the page...

Ive already stated it if you actually read my post. Daredevil let Spiderman get a hit on him so he can catch a breather and Spidey still couldnt knock him out. But all that happed at the bottom of the page was Spidey missing another hit on DD. Than DD made that statement. Nice try.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Ive already stated it if you actually read my post. Daredevil let Spiderman get a hit on him so he can catch a breather and Spidey still couldnt knock him out. But all that happed at the bottom of the page was Spidey missing another hit on DD. Than DD made that statement. Nice try.

Yes, but what you posted is only a one time feat and would not necessarily mean that he would beat Spider-man. Look at Blade Cutter's picture.

Originally posted by batdude123
Yes, but what you posted is only a one time feat and would not necessarily mean that he would beat Spider-man. Look at Blade Cutter's picture.

And in the text for that scene DD admits how screwed he is

Originally posted by jrodslam
Spidy sense isnt better than Radar. If DD rolled with Spideys punches hed get tired you say? well its happened and you know what happened? Daredevil LET Spidey land a hit just so he can get a quick breather, and Spidey still couldnt knock him out like you think he would. Funny isnt it.
Spidey throwing buses, trucks etc, would do nothing. You think DD would have a hard time dodging those? Plus Matt would close the gap liek he always does. What makes people think hes gonna be on dodging all fight. Hed close the gap and go on the offensive. Plus DD has good records against both Wolverine and Black Panther including Spiderman.
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/3106/daredevil017126pt.th.jpg Why don't you post the rest of that fight are at lest that page or do I have to shw every one for you?

Originally posted by Blade Cutter
Why don't you post the rest of that fight are at lest that page or do I have to shw every one for you? Sounds like somebody got busted

Originally posted by willRules
Hasn't DD also admitted that Spidey outclasses him? I would also like to see DD beat people like Venom or Lizard in a fight. Whereas I can see spidey taking people like Mr hyde (Which he did easily in one issue, whilst injured from a previous fight and was in a crowded room) , and in his fight with Bullseye, Bullseye was forced to run away.

And so, what your point? DD always says stuff like "IF he lands a hit like that its over for me!". Yet Spiderman NEVER does lol. Daredevil has never fought Lizard, but im sure he could find a way to beat him and he already foght Venom in a stalemate. Plus Daredevil beats Hyde on a regular basis. Saying who Spidey beat and wondering if DD can beat them are nulled in this fight. The two have fought many times and Spidey just has trouble with DD. Simple.

Originally posted by willRules
Personally I think comparing spidey and DD in a fight is ridiculous but here we are

I think you like it, cause you continue to do it. It does get a bit repetitive though. Weve had this debate many times.

Originally posted by willRules
I'm still inclined to believe that spidey's sense is quicker due to the countless times he has dodged lasers, bullets and coupled with his superhuman speed, reflexes and agility to compliment his sense.

Daredevil has done the same, and he doesnt even naturally have superhuman speed, reflexes etc. That alone is an indication of how superior DD's senses are to Spideys one. Hes fast enough to where Spidey cant even knock him out. Spiderman! Hes fast enough to roll with punches to where people like Namor and Hulk struggle to ko him. If he had the durability, hed be beyone Wolverine level.

Originally posted by willRules
Its on the level that he is fast enough to dodge lasers, bullets and supervillains whilst simultaneously worrying about Aunt May paying her bills. And I'm sure DD will be having a hard time to work out the moves of a guy who is much faster, much more agile and has much better reflexes than him.

In fights with Spidey, DD has known when Spidey was going to jump. Hes known when Spidey was gonna swing. DD was sooo confident in his senses that he was willing to ALLOW Spiderman to get a hit on him just so he can catch a breather. Them immediately after that hit, which still didnt ko him, he was ready again.

Originally posted by willRules
Yes but thats after he has dodged the bullets and maybe dodging more gunfire. He doesn't stop to check out what is going on as the bullet is heading towards him. And the whole purpose of the spider-sense is to tell him how to avoid a threat so that's exactly what it does (with a few exceptions like symbiotes).

Whereas at some point DD has to use his sense to locate the danger, work out how to avoid it, then for him to actually do it.

Spidey doesn't need to locate the danger or how to avoid it as his spider-sense tells him how to avoid it. He just has to take action. Plus DD has to rely on peak human reflexes to achieve this, spidey can comfortably do this with superhuman agility.

Ive never said that Spidey has to figure out what to do once the bullet is fired. He just works off instinct in that type of situation. I was talking about before the bullet is fired or before someone makes the act to attack and the sense goes off. In that sitiation, Spidey has to look arouind to see whats triggering his senses to go off.

DD acts instinctively just like Spidey. He alreadsy knows what the person is going to do beforehand so he just acts on it. While bullets or laser are already being fired the only thing he usually thinks about is how to stop the person. Hes not thinking about how to dodge it.

Is Spidey doesnt know the danger, how can he jsut take action? there was an instance where him and DD were together and the senses went off, but Spidey was didnt know there was going to be an explosion untill DD told him to move. that happened on a few occasions.

Originally posted by willRules
Nope I'm saying his spider-sense tells him how to first avoid the danger without him necessarily realizing that the sniper is even there. He can rely on his spider-sense to avoid the danger whilst he locates the threat. Whereas DD has to use his radar sense to know there is a threat, then decide how to dodge, react, then to actually do it.

Spiderman relies more on his agility and reflexes to avoid the danger. He relies on the senses to know of a danger and try to locate it IF it doesnt already present itself. DD has to decide how to react? Before a trigger is even pulled DD knows when and where the shot is going to be. He doesnt think of how to dodge it., He usually thiks of what moves to do to diable to person witout breaking all the bones in their hand. Bullets move in slow motion to him so dodging is as easy and quick as breathing.


Originally posted by willRules
Nope all DD has to worry about is a guy who can dodge every one of his blows, is physically superior to him by far in every single way, can match his range with webbing and can take off his head with one hit. Even assuming that what you said about spidey having to land numerous hits and DD just one (Which I entirely disagree with) was true, I still think spidey's superhuman reflexes would put him above DD and his superhuman strength could take DD down eventually, assuming DD was fast enough to dodge a guy much faster and more agile than him.

DD has to worry about a guy that can dodge ewvery one of his blows? And what guy would that be? It sure isnt Spiderman. DD usually doesn ahve trouble tagging him at all. Nor would he be worried about webbing. The onyl thing he worries about is spdey landing a good enough hit to ko him. Yet that has never happened save for the most recent fight between the two. You dont think DD can down Spidey with a death blow or nerve hit? DD's senses put his reflexes with Spiderman's. His fighting ability that allows him to roll with punches would always and always have nulled Spidermans strength. Its already nulled Hulks, Namors and Things strength. theres not assuming DD can dodge a guy whos faster and stronger than him cause hes done it countless times in the past. Same for Spiderman.

Originally posted by willRules
I don't disagree with that. That's one of the reasons I think DD is such a great character. He has had sooooo many obstacles in his life that he has managed to overcome and this is clearly represented by the fact he is one of the very few heroes not noted for his extraordinary powers but his weakness, the fact he is blind.

In a way, id rather have the senses than sight. But thats just me.

Originally posted by willRules
AS far as I am concerned he can have 20 hours of prep, but unless he pulls extra help from other heroes or an anti-spider-man device from his anus (Like the writer of the Sin Eater storyline with the death of Jean Dewolf) DD is losing this.

And as for his senses being more efficient, I can only imagining him using them to smell defeat quicker than the average person

Hey, hes never had much problem holding up to Spiderman of all the fights they have had. 20 minutes or 20 hours would spell curtains for Web-Head. Imo, Spidey always seems to have more trouble with DD than DD does with him.

DD takes the majority.

Spidey Curbstomps him..
DD wouldn't be 100% after fighting Bullseye and Black Panther and only getting 20 min. of rest.

Originally posted by batdude123
Yes, but what you posted is only a one time feat and would not necessarily mean that he would beat Spider-man. Look at Blade Cutter's picture.

One time feat? And what would that be? That Spidey couldnt knock DD out? Do you own the comic that Blade Cutter put up? Do you know that what he put up was a one time feat?
Do you know that after that scan, Daredevil STILL Wasnt knocked out and proceded to dodge all of Spideys punches?

Originally posted by willRules
And in the text for that scene DD admits how screwed he is

And tell us all how screwed DD was after? Sure was screwed wasnt he?

Originally posted by Blade Cutter
Why don't you post the rest of that fight are at lest that page or do I have to shw every one for you?

I already have the comic thank you, but if you want to post the rest of that fight, then be my guest. It wont help your arguement at all.

Spidey still beats him in this gauntlet......

Bah!

lol to the guy saying Spiderman cant KO Daredevil.
Daredevil has human limitations. Spidey is class 10-15.
You think blows that have tons of power backing them up wont KO DD?
People still underestimate spidey strength because he is a slim looking hero. If Spidey had a ruthless mind he could tear peoples limbs/heads off, throw cars at people, swing guys by their feet into concrete walls till they are ground beef.

I dont think someone knows the properties of DD's abilities/powers. Spiderman has ko'd DD one time out of about 8 fights. And DD ko him in that same fight as well. It was a stalemate. If you read fights where DD is fighting someone who is stronger than him, youd see that Daredevil ALWAYS rolls with the punches to reduce their effectveness. Evern when he fights regular street-level characters such as Cap, IF, Pun etc. Its not like im just making things up.

Noone is underestimating Spideys strength here. Because i say Hulk, Thing and Namor also struggled to ko DD means that im underestimating thier strength as well?

Originally posted by jrodslam
I dont think someone knows the properties of DD's abilities/powers. Spiderman has ko'd DD one time out of about 8 fights. And DD ko him in that same fight as well. It was a stalemate. If you read fights where DD is fighting someone who is stronger than him, youd see that Daredevil ALWAYS rolls with the punches to reduce their effectveness. Evern when he fights regular street-level characters such as Cap, IF, Pun etc. Its not like im just making things up.

Noone is underestimating Spideys strength here. Because i say Hulk, Thing and Namor also struggled to ko DD means that im underestimating thier strength as well?

DD doesnt stan a chance against Hulk or thing even namor. If he beat them some how its PIS. He probably dodged their blows, got out the way or whatever other evasive tactic he took to not getting his skeleton smashed. Daredevils blows would have no effect on those 3 whatsoever though. Only thing DD could do so he would not get KO'ed is get out the damn way.
In the Spidey fights I do think that the writters want to make the fights seems intense and such. If it was more realistic to their abilities, SM would have no trouble taking care of DD.
ps. im not a DD hater.

Originally posted by Inhuman
DD doesnt stan a chance against Hulk or thing even namor. If he beat them some how its PIS. He probably dodged their blows, got out the way or whatever other evasive tactic he took to not getting his skeleton smashed. Daredevils blows would have no effect on those 3 whatsoever though. Only thing DD could do so he would not get KO'ed is get out the damn way.
In the Spidey fights I do think that the writters want to make the fights seems intense and such. If it was more realistic to their abilities, SM would have no trouble taking care of DD.
ps. im not a DD hater.

Im not saying DD stands chances against Hulk, Thing and Namor. It all depends on environment and circumstance. When fighting Thing and the FF, DD useds his smarts to get the bes tof Thing for a while. Ive never said DD beat Hulk and Namor. Ive said they ahvce had much trouble ko'ing him. Daredevils blows would have effects on them depending on where he hit them. Like Cap said when fighting Hulk, "Weakspots are weakspots." Everyone has them.
In the Spidey fights i also thing they try to make them somewhat interesting. However if it were more realistic, Spidey would never hit DD actually and DD could literally kill him with a touch. Which would be easier than Spidey knocking him out.

Jrod is making some excellent points as usual.

With that said, Spidey wins.

Begone Val.

But due to DD only getting 20 min rest/prep between fights, he makes it to Spiderman and can go either way really.

Originally posted by jrodslam
However if it were more realistic, Spidey would never hit DD actually and DD could literally kill him with a touch.

!?

DareDevil for all his senses and abilities is still only as fast and agile as humanly possible.Spider-man is more than human.There's really nothing else that has to be said.Fighting ability only comes into play when you and your opponet are on the same level.I think DD could win at best 3/10 against spidey.Which is rather irrelevant seeing as he has no chance beating Wolverine.

Originally posted by jrodslam
In my opinion Spidey wouls never tag DD with his webbing. Most likely it would end up h2h cause Spidey would know its useless. I believe Spidey has tried the webbing in 2 fights of the few that they have had. DD is a very humble character and gives others respect. He may have admitted being slower than Spidey which im not disputing, but he still doesnt get tagged by the punches enough to ko him. Spidey has also said that no matter how fast he is, he still cant land a solid hit on DD. Thier most recent fight was a couple of months ago in Black Cats book. They both knocked each other out. Spideys fist time i believe.

not to say it's not relevent, but that was a very old scan. and a wide stream of webbing would most likely tag him if that's what spidey was going for. spidey has tagged superspeedsters in the past -- mongoose for one, but there have been many others. spidey also has a gear he's never used on daredevil before, it's the 'really stupidly fast' gear that he reserves for people he's not afraid he'll actually kill, like morlun or hulk and i think black tarantula iirc. spidey literally becomes a blur and lands dozens, in morlun's case maybe hundreds of shots in seconds. no chance dd would last through a barrage like that. i could post scans, but it's late and you no doubt have seen the attacks in the past. if you want 'em, i could get 'em.

you're also assuming this 'one-touch-death-thing' would:

a) HIT him. spidey's sense would scream dodge, unlike dd's regular punches which wouldn't register as truly large threats

b) that it COULD kill him. don't forget -- spidey is SIGNIFICANTLY more durable and heals much quicker than a normal human, so it is likely arguable at least that this one-touch shot would kill him.

'fraid, much as i like dd, (and that fall from grace arc was one of the best 2 or 3 arcs i have in my entire collection, imo) i still side with the majority in this one and gotta go with spidey.

Originally posted by leonidas
not to say it's not relevent, but that was a very old scan. and a wide stream of webbing would most likely tag him if that's what spidey was going for. spidey has tagged superspeedsters in the past -- mongoose for one, but there have been many others. spidey also has a gear he's never used on daredevil before, it's the 'really stupidly fast' gear that he reserves for people he's not afraid he'll actually kill, like morlun or hulk and i think black tarantula iirc. spidey literally becomes a blur and lands dozens, in morlun's case maybe hundreds of shots in seconds. no chance dd would last through a barrage like that. i could post scans, but it's late and you no doubt have seen the attacks in the past. if you want 'em, i could get 'em.

you're also assuming this 'one-touch-death-thing' would:

a) HIT him. spidey's sense would scream dodge, unlike dd's regular punches which wouldn't register as truly large threats

b) that it COULD kill him. don't forget -- spidey is SIGNIFICANTLY more durable and heals much quicker than a normal human, so it is likely arguable at least that this one-touch shot would kill him.

'fraid, much as i like dd, (and that fall from grace arc was one of the best 2 or 3 arcs i have in my entire collection, imo) i still side with the majority in this one and gotta go with spidey.

Very impressive Leo I have never seen you argue for Spidey before.

http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=43817rq.gif

spidey is usually in good hands. truth be told, it's likely i know more about spidey than any other character in comics. but there are usually a bunch of people jumping to his defense, so i don't chime in all that often. normally i'd argue for dd in most battles, just not in this case . . .


they're 2 of my all-time faves.

Folks saying DD would be too slow... not necessarily. in a classic issue when the Fantastic 4 believed DD to be Doom in Murdock's body, DD managed to evade the Human torch who was flying at him AND TRYING TO KILL HIM.

Originally posted by HellMaster93
Folks saying DD would be too slow... not necessarily. in a classic issue when the Fantastic 4 believed DD to be Doom in Murdock's body, DD managed to evade the Human torch who was flying at him AND TRYING TO KILL HIM.

A popular character survived an unlikely scenario? that could be just thanks to C.I.S

Originally posted by jrodslam
And so, what your point? DD always says stuff like "IF he lands a hit like that its over for me!". Yet Spiderman NEVER does lol. Daredevil has never fought Lizard, but im sure he could find a way to beat him and he already foght Venom in a stalemate. Plus Daredevil beats Hyde on a regular basis. Saying who Spidey beat and wondering if DD can beat them are nulled in this fight. The two have fought many times and Spidey just has trouble with DD. Simple.

My point was that DD has beaten opponents physically superior to himself, granted, but spidey has beaten some of the same guys whilst injured!!!! Plus spidey has beaten guys much stronger than himself who would be even more out of DD's league than spidey already is.

Oh and lizard vs DD????? Lizard wins 10/10

Originally posted by jrodslam
Daredevil has done the same, and he doesnt even naturally have superhuman speed, reflexes etc. That alone is an indication of how superior DD's senses are to Spideys one. Hes fast enough to where Spidey cant even knock him out. Spiderman! Hes fast enough to roll with punches to where people like Namor and Hulk struggle to ko him. If he had the durability, hed be beyone Wolverine level.

So by your logic because DD has dodged similar things to spidey, DD has better senses???? Sorry but that's rubbish. There are countless factors that could come into play for DD being able to dodge similar things, and the fact that spidey dodges the same thing and DD himself admits spidey is by far physically superior to him, that suggests the reversal of what you have said.

Originally posted by jrodslam
In fights with Spidey, DD has known when Spidey was going to jump. Hes known when Spidey was gonna swing. DD was sooo confident in his senses that he was willing to ALLOW Spiderman to get a hit on him just so he can catch a breather. Them immediately after that hit, which still didnt ko him, he was ready again.

So DD used his superior reflexes to have the time work out how to avoid all this right???? Oh no wait DD is physically inferior in every way. It almost suggests that in previous encounters the writers have hyped a popular character up to give him a chance against Spidey, but that would never happen right????

Originally posted by jrodslam
DD acts instinctively just like Spidey. He alreadsy knows what the person is going to do beforehand so he just acts on it. While bullets or laser are already being fired the only thing he usually thinks about is how to stop the person. Hes not thinking about how to dodge it.

DD's radar sense tells him who or what is in his immediate surroundings. It doesn't tell him if its a threat or not. DD must deduce that it is a threat, then decide how to react, then to execute that reaction.

The spider-sense tells spidey what to do to react, then spidey must execute that reaction. Spidey skips the whole step of deciding how to react, that's the purpose of the spider-sense. You may say it will only take a split second for DD to go through his senses to react, but the same can be said for spidey who can also utilise superhuman physical attribute, to give him a clear edge in this fight.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Is Spidey doesnt know the danger, how can he jsut take action?

I was referring to him taking action to avoid the threat, and how his spider-sense does it for him.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Spiderman relies more on his agility and reflexes to avoid the danger. He relies on the senses to know of a danger and try to locate it IF it doesnt already present itself. DD has to decide how to react? Before a trigger is even pulled DD knows when and where the shot is going to be. He doesnt think of how to dodge it., He usually thiks of what moves to do to diable to person witout breaking all the bones in their hand. Bullets move in slow motion to him so dodging is as easy and quick as breathing.

He may do it subconsciously or he may have trained himself to react that way, but it's still DD's thought process and it's still a longer one than Spidey's spider-sense which is instinctive and coupled with his reflexes, much faster.

Originally posted by jrodslam
DD's senses put his reflexes with Spiderman's. His fighting ability that allows him to roll with punches would always and always have nulled Spidermans strength. Its already nulled Hulks, Namors and Things strength. theres not assuming DD can dodge a guy whos faster and stronger than him cause hes done it countless times in the past. Same for Spiderman.

"DD senses put his reflexes with spider-man's"???????? Why cos you say so??? If spider-man operated at peak human reflexes I'd be inclined to agree with you, but he is much quicker than that.

And don't tell me you think DD can hang with the likes of Thing, Hulk or Namor??? Putting him in the same league as Spidey is far fetched IMO but with Namor? NAMOR FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!!

Originally posted by jrodslam
And tell us all how screwed DD was after? Sure was screwed wasnt he?


I have that issue but i haven't read it in years. Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't he barely managed to hold his own against a sloppy Spidey, being affected by numerous illusions and not thinking his is fighting DD???? Then DD goes on to admit how much faster ad better spidey is like in the scan shown. DD then manages to free spidey of the trance through their trust and the shattering of the device????

Such an impressive victory

Not quite on topic, but I would like those scans of Spidey in his "stupidly ridiculously fast" mode. .

Originally posted by willRules
My point was that DD has beaten opponents physically superior to himself, granted, but spidey has beaten some of the same guys whilst injured!!!! Plus spidey has beaten guys much stronger than himself who would be even more out of DD's league than spidey already is.

Oh and lizard vs DD????? Lizard wins 10/10

DD has also beat opponents who are faster and stronger than him while he was injured. And once again your proving my point by stating how strength doesnt matter in fights if hits cant be landed effectively to knock out the opponent.

And Lizard vd DD?? Who knows. I sure as hell wouldnt say Lizard 10/10. But i guess we'll never know now would we.

Originally posted by willRules
So by your logic because DD has dodged similar things to spidey, DD has better senses???? Sorry but that's rubbish. There are countless factors that could come into play for DD being able to dodge similar things, and the fact that spidey dodges the same thing and DD himself admits spidey is by far physically superior to him, that suggests the reversal of what you have said.

No. By my logic, because DD knows every detail of the threat PLUS gets warning of it before Spidey, that would put his senses above the Spidey sense. You can call it rubbish if you want, but it seems that when they are gother, DD's senses give him more info on the threat and sometimes BEFORE the Spidey sense warns Web-head. DD admits Spidey is physically superior to him. So whats your point? When they are in battle against each other, all of Spideys superiority goes down the tubes thanks to DD's superior senses. Spidey is naturally stronger yes, but cant apply the proper strength to ko DD. Spidey is naturally faster yes, but cant apply the suffeciant speed(which Spidey himself has stated) to land effeciant hits on DD.

Originally posted by willRules
So DD used his superior reflexes to have the time work out how to avoid all this right???? Oh no wait DD is physically inferior in every way. It almost suggests that in previous encounters the writers have hyped a popular character up to give him a chance against Spidey, but that would never happen right????


You dont work out how to roll with a punch. You just roll with it. Its part of his skill set which includes multiple styles of fighting such as boxing mainly. You learn how to do it, them whewn in fights its purely instinctive.

Originally posted by willRules
DD's radar sense tells him who or what is in his immediate surroundings. It doesn't tell him if its a threat or not. DD must deduce that it is a threat, then decide how to react, then to execute that reaction.

The spider-sense tells spidey what to do to react, then spidey must execute that reaction. Spidey skips the whole step of deciding how to react, that's the purpose of the spider-sense. You may say it will only take a split second for DD to go through his senses to react, but the same can be said for spidey who can also utilise superhuman physical attribute, to give him a clear edge in this fight.

DD's sense DOES tell him if a person is going to pose a threat. All by heartbeat and breathing alone. Once he sees that the person can be a threat, he watches/listens out for them to make a move. Before the move is even made, DD reacts. He doesnt have to wait to for the move to be in execution then decide how to react.

Spidey sense tells him somethings wrong. He then has to know/find out what it is thats wrong. Then the spidey sense helps him in his reaction to it such as letting him know when axactly when to dodge.

Originally posted by willRules
He may do it subconsciously or he may have trained himself to react that way, but it's still DD's thought process and it's still a longer one than Spidey's spider-sense which is instinctive and coupled with his reflexes, much faster.

DD's reactions are instinctive. If theres gun fire, move. He doesnt ahve to think to himself, "Should i move to the left or right?". He jsut does it.

Originally posted by willRules
"DD senses put his reflexes with spider-man's"???????? Why cos you say so??? If spider-man operated at peak human reflexes I'd be inclined to agree with you, but he is much quicker than that.

And don't tell me you think DD can hang with the likes of Thing, Hulk or Namor??? Putting him in the same league as Spidey is far fetched IMO but with Namor? NAMOR FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!!

DD's senses put his reflexes with Spdermans not because i say so, but because that how it is when they are together. Thats the best way to judge. You dont see Spiderman telling DD to move cause sometings coming. On the other hand they were a couple instances wehre DD has warned Spidey of something incoming.

Actually DD HAS Hung with Thing and Namor. He didnt do as good with Hulk. When i say "hang" i dont mean blow for blow and you should know that. When i say "hang" i mean for the fact that they struggle to knock him out or to land good enough hits to put him down. Why? Because of his speed and reflexes. I simply stated that people such as Thing, Hulk and Namor has had hard times knocking DD out, due to DD rolling with the punches. Please dont put words in my mouth. Can you find my quote where i put DD in the same league as Namor? Good luck with that one.

Originally posted by willRules
I have that issue but i haven't read it in years. Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't he barely managed to hold his own against a sloppy Spidey, being affected by numerous illusions and not thinking his is fighting DD???? Then DD goes on to admit how much faster ad better spidey is like in the scan shown. DD then manages to free spidey of the trance through their trust and the shattering of the device????

Such an impressive victory

You stand corrected. DAredevil didnt barely manage to hold his own at all. In fact Daredevil never even attempted an attack on Spidey. After the initial hit, Daredevil proceeded to dodge Spideys punches. He held his own quite well actually. Especially considering Spidey though DD was a major threat. Why didnt he listen to his senses? DD mentioned that in normal sircumstances hed never be able to outfight him but he could outthink him. Spidey also was going to try and use the Spidey sense to find the villain, but DD already knew where he was at via senses.

And once again, can you find my quote where i said that was a victory for Daredevil?

I think Spidey wuld beat him, but Spidey does pull his punches so he doesnt hurt people too bad...DD has a chance if Spidey pulls his punches.

but remember guys, DD was recently Captain Universe! He wins!
wait a minute...

Originally posted by jrodslam
DD has also beat opponents who are faster and stronger than him while he was injured. And once again your proving my point by stating how strength doesnt matter in fights if hits cant be landed effectively to knock out the opponent.

And Lizard vd DD?? Who knows. I sure as hell wouldnt say Lizard 10/10. But i guess we'll never know now would we.

He SHOULD only be able to hit the opponent if his speed and reflexes are as good as the opponent. Oh no wait spidey wins in the physical department in every way.

Originally posted by jrodslam
No. By my logic, because DD knows every detail of the threat PLUS gets warning of it before Spidey, that would put his senses above the Spidey sense. You can call it rubbish if you want, but it seems that when they are gother, DD's senses give him more info on the threat and sometimes BEFORE the Spidey sense warns Web-head. DD admits Spidey is physically superior to him. So whats your point? When they are in battle against each other, all of Spideys superiority goes down the tubes thanks to DD's superior senses. Spidey is naturally stronger yes, but cant apply the proper strength to ko DD. Spidey is naturally faster yes, but cant apply the suffeciant speed(which Spidey himself has stated) to land effeciant hits on DD.

Why can't spidey land a hit? because DD's senses are better? But that's only as good for as quickly as he can use them or put them into effect, but DD doesn't have the best reflexes, speed or agility in this fight.

Originally posted by jrodslam
You dont work out how to roll with a punch. You just roll with it. Its part of his skill set which includes multiple styles of fighting such as boxing mainly. You learn how to do it, them whewn in fights its purely instinctive.

Ok lets say DD has trained his sense to be virtually instinctive (Which still wouldn't hold a bead on the spider-sense which IS instinctive) operating at his best, he is still outclassed by Spidey. And its still very debatable who has the best senses, IMO opinion its the spider-sense. In your opinion DD's senses. It seems its all he has got going for him and even that's debatable

Originally posted by jrodslam
D's sense DOES tell him if a person is going to pose a threat. All by heartbeat and breathing alone. Once he sees that the person can be a threat, he watches/listens out for them to make a move. Before the move is even made, DD reacts. He doesnt have to wait to for the move to be in execution then decide how to react.

So a sniper is firing a bullet at DD. DD has to rely on his senses to pick up the sniper is there, work out how to avoid the gunfire, then actually avoid it, all before the sniper fires, with his human reflexes? I'm not saying he can't do it because he has dodged worse numerous times, but it does seem a bit like a "By the skin of his teeth" moment.

Originally posted by jrodslam
pidey sense tells him somethings wrong. He then has to know/find out what it is thats wrong. Then the spidey sense helps him in his reaction to it such as letting him know when axactly when to dodge.

All the spider-sense does is tell spidey what to do to avoid the danger. Spidey already knows there is a danger if it goes off otherwise it wouldn't go off in the first place, its just a case of him locating the danger.

Originally posted by jrodslam
DD's reactions are instinctive. If theres gun fire, move. He doesnt ahve to think to himself, "Should i move to the left or right?". He jsut does it.

DD may have trained himself enough and utilised his senses so it appears instinctive but its not. He doesn't have superhuman reflexes, speed or agility or a warning sense.

Originally posted by jrodslam
DD's senses put his reflexes with Spdermans not because i say so, but because that how it is when they are together. Thats the best way to judge. You dont see Spiderman telling DD to move cause sometings coming. On the other hand they were a couple instances wehre DD has warned Spidey of something incoming.

Oh I agree that in some cases DD my be able to utilise his senses to deduce what his about to happen in the upcoming moments. But that doesn't mean the spider-sense doesn't register it either. It also doesn't make DD's senses better for a one on one fight. It may, it may not. In my opinion it doesn't

Originally posted by jrodslam
Actually DD HAS Hung with Thing and Namor. He didnt do as good with Hulk. When i say "hang" i dont mean blow for blow and you should know that. When i say "hang" i mean for the fact that they struggle to knock him out or to land good enough hits to put him down. Why? Because of his speed and reflexes. I simply stated that people such as Thing, Hulk and Namor has had hard times knocking DD out, due to DD rolling with the punches. Please dont put words in my mouth. Can you find my quote where i put DD in the same league as Namor? Good luck with that one.

By your definition of hung with then isn't what I deem to be a proper fight. In the past spidey has "Hung" by your definition with Galactus (like in secret wars or one panel in the sins past storyline), but I know that the planet eater would win in a fight.

I don't really know if I have any more points to contribute. You are entitled to your opinion and to argue with my points and I respect that But I feel as though it keeps coming back to the same points.

The only way I see DD winning this fight is through his senses, he has no other advantage. His fighting skills, acrobatics and strength mean diddly squat against an opponent who outclasses him physically in every way. It seems DD's senses make him a one trick pony in this fight and I'm not even sure if that is as effective in this fight against Spidey's spider-sense.

IMO spidey wins at least 8/10

this is taking waaaaaaaay too long. Venom wins.

If by some freak series of events that DD gets past spidey and wolverine Sabertooth curbstomps him.

Originally posted by willRules
He SHOULD only be able to hit the opponent if his speed and reflexes are as good as the opponent. Oh no wait spidey wins in the physical department in every way.

It makes it kinda easy to hit an opponent whos faster than you if you know exactly where theyre going to dodge doesnt it.

Originally posted by willRules
Why can't spidey land a hit? because DD's senses are better? But that's only as good for as quickly as he can use them or put them into effect, but DD doesn't have the best reflexes, speed or agility in this fight.

DD's senses go into effect before Spidey even gest off the move. Thats why Spidey wouldnt be able to land a hit. At least not one hard enough to do damage.

Originally posted by willRules
Ok lets say DD has trained his sense to be virtually instinctive (Which still wouldn't hold a bead on the spider-sense which IS instinctive) operating at his best, he is still outclassed by Spidey. And its still very debatable who has the best senses, IMO opinion its the spider-sense. In your opinion DD's senses. It seems its all he has got going for him and even that's debatable

I dont think DD has to train his senses to be instinctive. They just are. Just like when he first got them, he was able to act due to the senses letting him know of the danger before hand. His senses have operated at average levels and has made Spidey wonder if DD possesed extra sense that made it so hard for him to hit DD. DD has more than the senses going for him. Things like his actual fighting ability, speed and agility. With all the things Spidey has going for him aganst DD, it appears as if thats not even enough.

Originally posted by willRules
So a sniper is firing a bullet at DD. DD has to rely on his senses to pick up the sniper is there, work out how to avoid the gunfire, then actually avoid it, all before the sniper fires, with his human reflexes? I'm not saying he can't do it because he has dodged worse numerous times, but it does seem a bit like a "By the skin of his teeth" moment.

Not at all. DD would know the trigger is about to be pulled before it even is. Hed also know that there was someone perched somewhere and about to fire. Hed also already know which direction the person was aiming, so all he has to do is simply move out of the way. Even when snipers have fired Daredevil sees the bullet as it cuts throughthe air also making it easy for him to dodge. Human reflexes? I personally say its between superhuman(due to senses) and peak human. By the skin of his teeth? Sometimes, but Spidey has also dodged some close ones.

Originally posted by willRules
All the spider-sense does is tell spidey what to do to avoid the danger. Spidey already knows there is a danger if it goes off otherwise it wouldn't go off in the first place, its just a case of him locating the danger.

Many posts ago you said that Spidey doesnt have to locate the danger. Now you say he does? The Spidey sense warns Spidey of the danger and once its located, the sense helps him to dodge it along with his great agility.

Originally posted by willRules
DD may have trained himself enough and utilised his senses so it appears instinctive but its not. He doesn't have superhuman reflexes, speed or agility or a warning sense.

If you were to take away his senses, they DD would just have peak human reflexes due to his fighting background. But because of the senses, hes able to locate and move out of the way of danger before Spidey does. You say thats not superhuman reflexes? If thats not, i dont know what is.

Originally posted by willRules
Oh I agree that in some cases DD my be able to utilise his senses to deduce what his about to happen in the upcoming moments. But that doesn't mean the spider-sense doesn't register it either. It also doesn't make DD's senses better for a one on one fight. It may, it may not. In my opinion it doesn't

Im not saying Spidey sense wont register the danger/threat. Im just saying that DD registers it faster and more precise at that. I do think it slightly makes his senses better than Spideys on a 1on1 fight because DD knows exactly what areas to hit, where and when the opponent is going to strike, plus where they will end up after completing certain moves whether it be attack or dodge. All due to senses. The spidey sense cant deliver all of that.

Originally posted by willRules
By your definition of hung with then isn't what I deem to be a proper fight. In the past spidey has "Hung" by your definition with Galactus (like in secret wars or one panel in the sins past storyline), but I know that the planet eater would win in a fight.

I don't really know if I have any more points to contribute. You are entitled to your opinion and to argue with my points and I respect that But I feel as though it keeps coming back to the same points.

The only way I see DD winning this fight is through his senses, he has no other advantage. His fighting skills, acrobatics and strength mean diddly squat against an opponent who outclasses him physically in every way. It seems DD's senses make him a one trick pony in this fight and I'm not even sure if that is as effective in this fight against Spidey's spider-sense.

DD hanging with Hulk, Namor and Thing are completely different than Spidey hanging with Galactus. Why? Because people like Namor, Hulk and Thing are susceptible to nerve hits. They would feel the effects of some punches thrown by street level type characters depending on the attack.

I agree. Its clear we have different views on the outcome of Spidey vs DD. I respect your opinion as well, but apparently we'll never see eye to eye.

I partly agree that the only way DD would beat Spidey is through the use of his senses. His fighting skills and agility does help out along with the senses though. Its the fighitng skills that allows DD to roll with punches thrown by people with superhuman strength and not get knocked out the majority of the time. Spidey once labled him as "A one man Riot Squad!". DD has been effective with those who outclass him physically, but his skills and senses make up for alot.

I could be wrong, but doesn't the Spider Sense tell him what to do in a certain circumstance? For example - dodging punches in pitch blackness/fighting on spider sense alone? If he was unable to see, how would he 'identify,' the threat as you are saying?

In no way am I actually arguing the Spidey vs. Daredevil, I am just curious...doesn't his spider sense automatically endow him with knowledge of exactly whats about to happen, a limited form of pre-cog, even?

how does Spidey do against Captain America?
DD = Cap + superhuman senses + radar that is more precise than human sight.

Originally posted by Soljer
I could be wrong, but doesn't the Spider Sense tell him what to do in a certain circumstance? For example - dodging punches in pitch blackness/fighting on spider sense alone? If he was unable to see, how would he 'identify,' the threat as you are saying?

In no way am I actually arguing the Spidey vs. Daredevil, I am just curious...doesn't his spider sense automatically endow him with knowledge of exactly whats about to happen, a limited form of pre-cog, even?

It appears that it does sometimes in certain circumstances, but definately not all. When he fought Iron Fist, he did quite well, but was amaged at hot Fists punches were thrown so fast one faster another. He did do well to dodge though, but he alredy knew the threat in that case i guess.

It appears that the ss, allows him to know somethings happening or going to happen, but not what exactly. It can be called a limited form of pe-cog, but so can DD's senses i guess.

ss= Danger! dodge left!

DD radar= Hey look, it's a person with a sniper rifle on the building across the street. he just pulled the trigger. .50 caliber sniper round at 1 o'clock! but you already jumped out of the way and threw your billy club...

Originally posted by UltimateStryfe
ss= Danger! dodge left!

DD radar= Hey look, it's a person with a sniper rifle on the building across the street. he just pulled the trigger. .50 caliber sniper round at 1 o'clock! but you already jumped out of the way and threw your billy club...

Seems some what accurate. That is, who knows which is actually FASTER, but Spiderman's is less informative. It tells him what to do, but not exactly what happened.

Originally posted by HellMaster93
So, Daredevil faces a gauntlet on the rooftops of New York City...


1) Bullseye
2) Black Panther
3) Spider-man
4) Wolverine
5) Sabretooth
6) Cyclops

He has 20 minutes rest/prep between each battle...

As much as I love Daredevil, and I really do, he's not getting past Black Panther. And even IF he did, Spidey definitely takes him out. And really, that's that.

ya