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If superman prime was a marvel character and is just as strong as he was/is in dc, would he be recking shop like he has been doing in d/c or do marvel has such powers that would make this powerhouse kneel.

Depends.

Yeah I would say depends who gets involved...

Did anyone in DC try to stop him telepathically? cos I don't remember that happening.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Did anyone in DC try to stop him telepathically? cos I don't remember that happening.

Me neither. All I can remember is MM being able to read his mind.

Superman's powers would be toned down and some likely removed once he entered the Marvel Galaxy....and Marvel characters would have their powers increased upon entry into DC's universe.

Its that ridiculous....Sort of like us entering cartoonland.

Yeah, pretty much. Thor, Hulk, Ironman, most of the main heroes, would be crushed by SMP.

Originally posted by horrorwolf
Superman's powers would be toned down and some likely removed once he entered the Marvel Galaxy....and Marvel characters would have their powers increased upon entry into DC's universe.

Its that ridiculous....Sort of like us entering cartoonland.

Then how would you explain Gladiator?

Although I get your drift, and it is true for certain characters (e.g. the Flash in the MU would not have access to the Speedforce, but also note that if Quicksilver went to the DCU he would NOT get access to the Speedforce .....so it is not such a clean cut direct-exchange system).

But i get your general drift .....there are some power level differences between characters that are below a certain power level, but it is not as clear cut as some make it. It is only when people try to force certain characters together (e.g. the common Flash vs Quicksilver, or Hulk vs Superman) that it seems that the DCU is 'more powerful,' when the truth of the matter is that Quicksilver should NEVER have been compared to the Flash in the first place, nor should the Hulk have been compared to Superman. Those characters are not similar in any way ....the only way QS is 'similar' to the Flash is they are both, well, fast (but Quicksilver cannot do any of the other things Flash can ....e.g. access to the speedforce, being able to absorb the kinetic energy of the earth, achieving infinite mass while having the SF protect him from physical damage, in one case energy constructs made of pure SF energy .....in several cases the Flash has travelled so fast that he is basically everywhere at the same time .....goodness, QS should never be compared to the Flash, but he usually is because they are both 'fast'). Same for the Hulk & Superman ...most people compare them because they are both 'strong' ....when the fact of the matter is Superman comes with a bevy of other powers that can meet the quota of your average X-men team.

Compare the two universes that way, using mis-matched characters, and obviously one will 'appear' more powerful than the other.

However imagine if i used to compare Dr Strange against Mr.E from DC (instead of doing a better comparison of Strange vs Fate)
Or if I compared Captain America to Tim Drake
Or compared Mantis to the Huntress.

It depends on the characters you use for comparison.

And also the MU is filled with a host of characters who are basically omnipotent ....it is just that the most 'common' teams in the MU are generally filled with more 'tuned-down' characters, while in the DCU the 3 top teams have several members who can be described as demi-gods. That alone does not mean that one universe is 'stronger,' just that the team structures that are actually published are different.

And people tend to forget certain people in the MU like Magneto and the Silver Surfer, or for that matter people like Wanda who wake up one day and decide to rewrite the cosmos.

Anyways, compare the Hulk to Superman and you have issues, compare Gladiator to Superman and you have peers.

Originally posted by spetznaz
Then how would you explain Gladiator?

Although I get your drift, and it is true for certain characters (e.g. the Flash in the MU would not have access to the Speedforce, but also note that if Quicksilver went to the DCU he would NOT get access to the Speedforce .....so it is not such a clean cut direct-exchange system).

But i get your general drift .....there are some power level differences between characters that are below a certain power level, but it is not as clear cut as some make it. It is only when people try to force certain characters together (e.g. the common Flash vs Quicksilver, or Hulk vs Superman) that it seems that the DCU is 'more powerful,' when the truth of the matter is that Quicksilver should NEVER have been compared to the Flash in the first place, nor should the Hulk have been compared to Superman. Those characters are not similar in any way ....the only way QS is 'similar' to the Flash is they are both, well, fast (but Quicksilver cannot do any of the other things Flash can ....e.g. access to the speedforce, being able to absorb the kinetic energy of the earth, achieving infinite mass while having the SF protect him from physical damage, in one case energy constructs made of pure SF energy .....in several cases the Flash has travelled so fast that he is basically everywhere at the same time .....goodness, QS should never be compared to the Flash, but he usually is because they are both 'fast'). Same for the Hulk & Superman ...most people compare them because they are both 'strong' ....when the fact of the matter is Superman comes with a bevy of other powers that can meet the quota of your average X-men team.

Compare the two universes that way, using mis-matched characters, and obviously one will 'appear' more powerful than the other.

However imagine if i used to compare Dr Strange against Mr.E from DC (instead of doing a better comparison of Strange vs Fate)
Or if I compared Captain America to Tim Drake
Or compared Mantis to the Huntress.

It depends on the characters you use for comparison.

And also the MU is filled with a host of characters who are basically omnipotent ....it is just that the most 'common' teams in the MU are generally filled with more 'tuned-down' characters, while in the DCU the 3 top teams have several members who can be described as demi-gods. That alone does not mean that one universe is 'stronger,' just that the team structures that are actually published are different.

And people tend to forget certain people in the MU like Magneto and the Silver Surfer, or for that matter people like Wanda who wake up one day and decide to rewrite the cosmos.

Anyways, compare the Hulk to Superman and you have issues, compare Gladiator to Superman and you have peers.

Glads doesn't have things like T-vo...which helps prevent things like this from happening to Clark while Glads would still be vulnerable.

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/9391/actioncomics748p195wy.th.jpg

sp would speedblitz all these jokers

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Yeah, pretty much. Thor, Hulk, Ironman, most of the main heroes, would be crushed by SMP.

Nah SMP isn't crushing Thor.

Originally posted by D-Block
Nah SMP isn't crushing Thor. Yes he is.

Depending on his aligment status he would be a team villain like Avengers or Defenders or GotG foe.

Originally posted by D-Block
Nah SMP isn't crushing Thor. yes he is with ease.

nah!

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Yes he is.

Nah not Current Thor.

Did you all see that I put that superman prime would be at the level of power that he is currently is even though he would be in a different universe. Whatever power he possess now he would have while in MU. By the way I know that he would be classic thor but I just cant see him crushing thor. I honestly cant picture anyone crushing previous or current thor.

Just my opinion though.

Originally posted by jltruth
Did you all see that I put that superman prime would be at the level of power that he is currently is even though he would be in a different universe. Whatever power he possess now he would have while in MU. By the way I know that he would be classic thor but I just cant see him crushing thor. I honestly cant picture anyone crushing previous or current thor.

Just my opinion though.

Agreed.

Doom would probably end up stealing his powers.

lol, that I can see happening!

I think Surfer would probably beat him, after draining off some of his solar energies.

Originally posted by janus77
lol, that I can see happening!

I think Surfer would probably beat him, after draining off some of his solar energies.

I agree with this.

There are a couple of MU characters who can beat Superman-Prime:

Thanos
Silver Surfer
Gladiator
Dormammu
Odin

This not counting the Celestials and Abstracts.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
There are a couple of MU characters who can beat Superman-Prime:

Thanos
Silver Surfer
Gladiator
Dormammu
Odin

This not counting the Celestials and Abstracts.

umm so close, Sentry? yes

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
There are a couple of MU characters who can beat Superman-Prime:

Thanos
Silver Surfer
Gladiator
Dormammu
Odin

This not counting the Celestials and Abstracts. Thanos would stand a chance but i don't think he can put him down. The Surfer would beat him due to the whole cosmic awareness Gladiator gets pooped on the other two are no brainers.

Sentry has no business with SMP.

By the way is this current Marvel? if that is the case then I don't think Odin counts.

I don't see Gladiator pulling it off unless he is one of his "I think myself unbeatable!" high end days.

Surfer can definitely do it, but he better not waste his time or its bye bye for him.

Thanos...hmm I rather keep out of this one.

And well...SMP wrecks hell in DC because they write him like that. And since you said SMP would be as powerful/team wrecking as in DC I suppose he would cause the same ammount of havok since writters would just have him do it.

Surfer would be ripped in half before he could drain him.

Sentry? Sentry would be crushed by regular Superman, let alone SMP.

Gladiator would fall as well, but not like Sentry.

I can see Thanos as a challenge, but I don't see him taking out SMP.

Odin...Honestly I don't even see Odin beating SMP.

Originally posted by D-Block
Nah not Current Thor. yes current thor.

Is this SMP as in 1 million? Yeah, there aren't many in the MU who can hang with this guy. He's another uber plot device.

Er...I thought it was Retcon Punch Prime.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Er...I thought it was Retcon Punch Prime.

It is

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
There are a couple of MU characters who can beat Superman-Prime:

Thanos
Silver Surfer
Gladiator
Dormammu
Odin

This not counting the Celestials and Abstracts.

I agree with this list and gladiator has done some of the things that prime is current doing like moving planets, thats a feat that gladiator has being doing since his beginning. Traveling across the universe in a couple of panels, gladiator has been clocked at 100 x's the speed of light and that might wasnt his limit. surviving major blast, superman prime was hit by a nuke from monarch and stated that he was hurt bad, gladiator didnt even recognize a solar system destroying blast and flew out of it like it was nothing. Destroying planets, Hmm, both have destroyed planets but gladiator physically punched a planet and destroyed it, um prime had to fly to the core of the planet to destroy it. Without low showings them two should be the fight of the centry. By the way I think that sentry could give him a good fight also.

Originally posted by carver9
surviving major blast, superman prime was hit by a nuke from monarch

It wasn't a nuke. Ray Palmer speculated that it was a nuke, though he didn't even know that Prime and Monarch were fighting.

Originally posted by carver9
and stated that he was hurt bad,

And all that was damaged was his cape. It was the same as when he destroyed Earth-15. All that was damaged was his cape. Then, after he breached Monarch's armor, the Universe was destroyed, and Prime survived. And no, so far nothing indicates that Time Trapper rescued Prime before he was hit by the blast. In Legion of Three Worlds Prime's costume is wrecked, when he breached Monarch's armor the only thing that was damaged was his cape.

Originally posted by carver9
um prime had to fly to the core of the planet to destroy it.

Prime didn't have to fly through the planet in order to destroy it. He could have done it the same way Gladiator did, considering regular Superman was said to be able to destroy planets with his punches.

If the surfer starts getting really creative with his powers then he might get a few wins. Howver with SS mindset and nature he would probably get beaten silly early in the fight. If he had the ruthless mindset of exiles surfer then he would stand a much better chance. After all power wise he still beats superman prime by a ratio of like 5:1

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Surfer would be ripped in half before he could drain him.

Sentry? Sentry would be crushed by regular Superman, let alone SMP.

Gladiator would fall as well, but not like Sentry.

I can see Thanos as a challenge, but I don't see him taking out SMP.

Odin...Honestly I don't even see Odin beating SMP.






Wow!
I mean.
Wow!

Originally posted by The Illuminati



Wow!
I mean.
Wow!

Wo yeah, he knows what SBP can do. SBP may suck big time but he is so freaking overpowered that it hurts to read all the comics with him....

a bloodlusted silver surfer would stop him if he had to imo.

Originally posted by Rorschach
It wasn't a nuke. Ray Palmer speculated that it was a nuke, though he didn't even know that Prime and Monarch were fighting.



And all that was damaged was his cape. It was the same as when he destroyed Earth-15. All that was damaged was his cape. Then, after he breached Monarch's armor, the Universe was destroyed, and Prime survived. And no, so far nothing indicates that Time Trapper rescued Prime before he was hit by the blast. In Legion of Three Worlds Prime's costume is wrecked, when he breached Monarch's armor the only thing that was damaged was his cape.



Prime didn't have to fly through the planet in order to destroy it. He could have done it the same way Gladiator did, considering regular Superman was said to be able to destroy planets with his punches.

Do you have proof that the blast was stronger or even just as strong as a nuke. The damage that it caused didnt prove otherwise.

It wasnt the physical damage that was in question, it took him two panels to show up and attack monarch. From that alone that should say that he was at least temporarily knocked out. And yes time trapper had a lot to do with superman prime showing back up, unless you can explain to me how he appeared in front of time trapper in the 1st place and why didnt he talk during the time time trapper threw him through the time dimension barriers.

Do you have any on panel proof of regular superman destroying a planet with nothing more then brute strength, if not then I guess when cell stated that his blast was going to destroy the solar system it was a true statement. Superman brags a lot and from that statement alone, that wasnt nothing but hyperbole. It would have had more credit if the narrator said it. Im quite sure superman thought that he could move the moon by himself but he was fooled, just like he thought he was strong enough to take konvikt out by himself.

Originally posted by Rorschach
Ah, but then again, my English sucks. Your English is just fine. Carver's English hasn't always shown to be the best.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Your English is just fine. Carver's English hasn't always shown to be the best.

I kind of agree, my english is terrible, now can we debate.

You're talking to an idiot Rorschach. I shouldn't bother with anyone who thinks pussyboy Sentry can beat SMP.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
You're talking to an idiot Rorschach. I shouldn't bother with anyone who thinks pussyboy Sentry can beat SMP.

I dont think that sentry would beat superman prime but I do think that sentry would hold his own for a little bit and then get his head ripped off. I never said that sentry or gladiator could be him but trust me I honestly think that both would give him a run for there money. Sentry is so underrated on this forum that its ridiculous but hey, its not up for me to convince you, its the writer job.


I would love for you to show me that post where I said that sentry would beat superman prime. Ill be waiting.

Originally posted by The Boss
Survives being smashed between New Genesis and Apokolips

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/8510/deathofthenewgods080260vb0.th.jpg http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/1457/deathofthenewgods08027ac8.th.jpg

Superman survived this(in a weakened state after being getting hit by a Darkseid amped enough to fight the source). SMP is so many degrees more powerful than this it's not even funny.

It's fun seeing such a one-sided debate.

Originally posted by Rorschach
But seriously, stop bringing Dragonball into this. I know you have a hard on for Dragonball, but try and keep it out of the Comic Book forums. Go search for some hentai and relieve yourself.

crylaugh

Originally posted by carver9
I dont think that sentry would beat superman prime but I do think that sentry would hold his own for a little bit and then get his head ripped off. I never said that sentry or gladiator could be him but trust me I honestly think that both would give him a run for there money. Sentry is so underrated on this forum that its ridiculous but hey, its not up for me to convince you, its the writer job.


I would love for you to show me that post where I said that sentry would beat superman prime. Ill be waiting. Sentry at his greatest level of power could not beat World War Hulk.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Boy does he:

guys, leys keep the personal stuff out of it, also:

Originally posted by carver9
By the way superman brags a lot unless you forgot him threatning to punch black adam with a punch that would split a moon in half. Hes full of hyperbole.

thats incorrect, in fact, superman is probably the LEAST likely character in comics to brag, as he's so (even to his own detriment) honest...

Performing independent actions simultaneously in 2 different cities easily proves that Supes is a lot faster than Carver gives him credit for.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff144/KMCSuperman/c16.jpg

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Yeah, pretty much. Thor, Hulk, Ironman, most of the main heroes, would be crushed by SMP.

yeah and hes in a totally diffrent league then thoses charcters mentioned you cant compare SMP to hulk or classic thor or surfer lol or ironman.


Now if we really want to make it fair.


Lets see what prime does to thanos with his upgrade with some prep times or hmm mabey even galactus. Or mabey even a pissed off tyrant.

Or mabey LT.


I think SMP may do well aginst the skyfathers in this world due to the fact i dont see any skyfather in marvel slugging it out with him. I dont know what odin will do to him due to the fact that SMP has insanely high magical resistances.

Originally posted by Raoul
guys, leys keep the personal stuff out of it, also:



thats incorrect, in fact, superman is probably the LEAST likely character in comics to brag, as he's so (even to his own detriment) honest...


Superman is like the most humble of all charachters, i have never seen him brag in a comic.

no one crushes hulk with physical force

Titannus knocked Hulk out with pure physical force when he surprised him...

... doubt he could do the same to World War Hulk... but y'know...

Hulk's also survived the best that Onslaught could do, and eventually outpowered him.

Hulk's also stated that his "savage" Hulk days were his adolescence, that he has grown in power since then - this was during Tempus Fugit.

Hulk literally is the Strongest One There Is, infinite strength, infinite stamina and a healing factor that literally can raise him from the dead.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Titannus knocked Hulk out with pure physical force when he surprised him...

... doubt he could do the same to World War Hulk... but y'know...

You do know that titannus was absorbing his gamma radiation making him weaker by the second.

Originally posted by Avlon
Performing independent actions simultaneously in 2 different cities easily proves that Supes is a lot faster than Carver gives him credit for.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff144/KMCSuperman/c16.jpg

wasnt this during the time that he said that he couldnt go light speed.

By the way, its not only just superman that I talk about when it come to combat speed. I say the same thing against gladiator who could be hit by hulk, wonder woman, martian manhunter (unless he use his other ability), hyperion, mimic. All of these characters isnt running circles around anyone because again they have been hit by far less characters then lets say juggernaut and hulk. Just go to the wonder woman vs hulk thread, everything that I have said about superman I have also said about her. Go to the martian manhunter vs Juggernaut thread, I have said the same thing about him also. Go to the wolverine vs mimic thread you would see the same words. I have no hate for superman or any other character that I say this about, I just go by on panel showings in which you all throw out the window and on each of these characters they get beaten by far less bricks that you pit them against. I agree, they have displayed some combat speed but them being beaten up and hit by bricks outweighs there speed showings.

Just my opinion though, I can post my arguments but you dont have to agree.

Originally posted by carver9
wasnt this during the time that he said that he couldnt go light speed.

This is afterwards.

And when he referred to lightspeed...he was referring to a Zeta beam, which is far, far faster than standard light.

Originally posted by Avlon
This is afterwards.

And when he referred to lightspeed...he was referring to a Zeta beam, which is far, far faster than standard light.

Agree with the zeta beam statement but that wasnt how he put it. He said that the beam goes the speed of light and I think that he said that he goes nowhere near that speed. I have the comic at home, Ill look at it because you could be right.

Originally posted by carver9
By the way, its not only just superman that I talk about when it come to combat speed. I say the same thing against gladiator who could be hit by hulk, wonder woman, martian manhunter (unless he use his other ability), hyperion, mimic. All of these characters isnt running circles around anyone because again they have been hit by far less characters then lets say juggernaut and hulk. Just go to the wonder woman vs hulk thread, everything that I have said about superman I have also said about her. Go to the martian manhunter vs Juggernaut thread, I have said the same thing about him also. Go to the wolverine vs mimic thread you would see the same words. I have no hate for superman or any other character that I say this about, I just go by on panel showings in which you all throw out the window and on each of these characters they get beaten by far less bricks that you pit them against. I agree, they have displayed some combat speed but them being beaten up and hit by bricks outweighs there speed showings.

Just my opinion though, I can post my arguments but you dont have to agree.

I agree that charcters like Wonderwoman and MM dont really have battle speed. Heck i hve asked for scans displaying such and instead i got scans of her flying across the planet lol. Howver i dont think the same applies for superman who ive seen on a few occassions display good battle speed when he really lets go.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
I agree that charcters like Wonderwoman and MM dont really have battle speed. Heck i hve asked for scans displaying such and instead i got scans of her flying across the planet lol. Howver i dont think the same applies for superman who ive seen on a few occassions display good battle speed when he really lets go.

You do realize that wonder woman and superman are equals, you cant give credit to one without giving credit to the other and that still dont get rid of the fact that Superman along with the rest have been downed by bricks. Hell superman entire rogue gallery almost consist of nothing but bricks.

The only way things could possibly be convincing is if you had some kind of on panel proof showing that superman purposely let Kalibak down him, or he purposely let Konvikt one shot him, or he purposely let darksied physically out fight him (please dont say that darksied has combat speed, it has already been proven otherwise), or you could prove that he purposely let shaggy man physically almost beat him and step on his head. Wonderwoman has some amazing speed feats like jumping around the world and actually tagging the flash and zoom, along with deflecting bullet etc.. but I think that hulk or juggernaut would crush her. She has shown along with superman that they are capable of being hit by bricks. The best combat speed feat that I can think of with superman was when he was creating sonic booms with his punches but the thing about that was that his entire body was visible.

The best combat feat that I can find with gladiator is when he fought sam and he punched so fast and hard that it was going to send sam to the center of the earth but his body was still visible. Good showings for both but again all of there showings against bricks throws that out of the window.

WW and Supes are NOT equals.
Supes can just break her lasso anytime he wants to.
And we are talking about Superman-Prime here, the strongest form of Superman, much stronger than Tangent Superman.

SMP has NO weaknesses. He'll soon break free from the the entrapment of the Green Lantern Corps.

Originally posted by carver9
You do realize that wonder woman and superman are equals, you cant give credit to one without giving credit to the other and that still dont get rid of the fact that Superman along with the rest have been downed by bricks. Hell superman entire rogue gallery almost consist of nothing but bricks.

The only way things could possibly be convincing is if you had some kind of on panel proof showing that superman purposely let Kalibak down him, or he purposely let Konvikt one shot him, or he purposely let darksied physically out fight him (please dont say that darksied has combat speed, it has already been proven otherwise), or you could prove that he purposely let shaggy man physically almost beat him and step on his head. Wonderwoman has some amazing speed feats like jumping around the world and actually tagging the flash and zoom, along with deflecting bullet etc.. but I think that hulk or juggernaut would crush her. She has shown along with superman that they are capable of being hit by bricks. The best combat speed feat that I can think of with superman was when he was creating sonic booms with his punches but the thing about that was that his entire body was visible.

The best combat feat that I can find with gladiator is when he fought sam and he punched so fast and hard that it was going to send sam to the center of the earth but his body was still visible. Good showings for both but again all of there showings against bricks throws that out of the window.

Wonderwoman and superman IMO are certainly not equals. Using feats, supes is superior. And actually it was the sonic boom feat that convinced me that supes had battle speed. Why supes does not use it all the time i dont really know but i think it has to do with plot mostly. As for wonderwoman i dont evn want to get started with that as ive seen almost no proof of her speed in sustained physical combat.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
WW and Supes are NOT equals.
Supes can just break her lasso anytime he wants to.
And we are talking about Superman-Prime here, the strongest form of Superman, much stronger than Tangent Superman.

SMP has NO weaknesses. He'll soon break free from the the entrapment of the Green Lantern Corps.

So superman can break her lasso, do you have any proof of this. Hell I think WWH is one of the strongest being out there (next to gladiator) but I have yet to imagine him breaking ww lasso.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Wonderwoman and superman IMO are certainly not equals. Using feats, supes is superior. And actually it was the sonic boom feat that convinced me that supes had battle speed. Why supes does not use it all the time i dont really know but i think it has to do with plot mostly. As for wonderwoman i dont evn want to get started with that as ive seen almost no proof of her speed in sustained physical combat.

Thats punching speed, thats totally different then combat speed. I agree he can punch very fast, hell the guy can catch bullets and you cant deny that wonder woman dont have incredible punching speed either. So if your using punching speed for superman then you cant say that wonder woman dont have any combat speed because her hands move in blurs all the time.

And Im not the one that say that superman and wonderwoman are equals thats something that dc have been saying since the beginning.

Originally posted by carver9
Thats punching speed, thats totally different then combat speed.

It specifically said he was moving so fast that he was crating sonic booms, not punching. Superman wasn't even shown punching anyone in that panel.

Originally posted by carver9
And Im not the one that say that superman and wonderwoman are equals thats something that dc have been saying since the beginning.

Good. Then you should have no problem providing me with a source where a DC Comics employee says Superman and Wonder Woman are equals.

Originally posted by carver9
Agree with the zeta beam statement but that wasnt how he put it. He said that the beam goes the speed of light and I think that he said that he goes nowhere near that speed. I have the comic at home, Ill look at it because you could be right.

No, he just said he wasn’t faster than light, when Adam Strange asked him to outrace the Zeta Beam. He didn’t say anything about not being able to move anywhere near that speed.

Originally posted by carver9
Thats punching speed, thats totally different then combat speed. I agree he can punch very fast, hell the guy can catch bullets and you cant deny that wonder woman dont have incredible punching speed either. So if your using punching speed for superman then you cant say that wonder woman dont have any combat speed because her hands move in blurs all the time.

And Im not the one that say that superman and wonderwoman are equals thats something that dc have been saying since the beginning.

That is sort of true. Wonderwoman howver i hve yet to see her display this her punching speed in sustained physical combat against another being. And i hve also seen scans on this forum of superman attacking an opponet at superspeed. Though not that definitive cuz no speed or anythin could be determined i took it as proof enough that he can attack with at least some degree of speed. And as for wonderwoman and supes being equal, if DC wants to make them, equal they should give wonderwoman more feats on par with supermans.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
That is sort of true. Wonderwoman howver i hve yet to see her display this her punching speed in sustained physical combat against another being. And i hve also seen scans on this forum of superman attacking an opponet at superspeed. Though not that definitive cuz no speed or anythin could be determined i took it as proof enough that he can attack with at least some degree of speed. And as for wonderwoman and supes being equal, if DC wants to make them, equal they should give wonderwoman more feats on par with supermans.

I totally agree, I think that superman could attack an opponent at super speed, I agree that everyone on the list can attack everyone at super speed but having the ability to continously do it during combat, I have yet to witness that. I have yet to see any of them do a continous speed blitz and just disappear from the opponents site but hey I havent read every hero/villian comic book out there so they might have done it.

Wonderwoman proved that she was superman equal when she fought and sun amp superman during max lord saga and was holding back. That alone should have been enough to prove that she was his equal and then she stalemated doomsday, something that even superman couldnt do.

She displays punching speed everytime she deflected bullets that are coming at her. She has to be moving pretty fast to perform that feat.

Originally posted by carver9
So superman can break her lasso, do you have any proof of this. Hell I think WWH is one of the strongest being out there (next to gladiator) but I have yet to imagine him breaking ww lasso.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=10745996

If a nobody can break her lasso, Supes sure as hell can

Originally posted by carver9
Wonderwoman proved that she was superman equal when she fought and sun amp superman during max lord saga and was holding back.

He was only near the sun for a few seconds, whatever amp he got wasn't all that significant. She was only holding back when she attacked him on Earth, after she had taken advantage of his super-hearing. That's when it was stated she was holding back, for that assualt.

Originally posted by carver9
That alone should have been enough to prove that she was his equal

No, this proved that she could survive against a Superman that wanted to make her suffer before he killer her. She was getting her ass kicked for most the fight, and was tryiing to buy enough time to either get the lasso around Superman or get to Max Lord.

Originally posted by carver9
she stalemated doomsday something that even superman couldnt do.

Right, Superman only defeated Doomsday right after OWAW. Stalemating him would be so much better. Oh, and Wonder Woman didn't stalemate the real Doomsday. When she did fight a legitimate version of Doomsday she was beaten. As far as I know she hasn't beaten a real version of Doomsday, only clones, and people transformed into Doomsday like beings.

Originally posted by carver9
I totally agree, I think that superman could attack an opponent at super speed, I agree that everyone on the list can attack everyone at super speed but having the ability to continously do it during combat, I have yet to witness that. I have yet to see any of them do a continous speed blitz and just disappear from the opponents site but hey I havent read every hero/villian comic book out there so they might have done it.

Wonderwoman proved that she was superman equal when she fought and sun amp superman during max lord saga and was holding back. That alone should have been enough to prove that she was his equal and then she stalemated doomsday, something that even superman couldnt do.

She displays punching speed everytime she deflected bullets that are coming at her. She has to be moving pretty fast to perform that feat.

I just relooked at that sonic boom scan and saw that supes actually did show battle speed and not punching speed. And as i said wonderwoman has yet to show such speed againt a person in sustained physical combat. Im not talking about blocking bullets.

Originally posted by Rorschach
He was only near the sun for a few seconds, whatever amp he got wasn't all that significant. She was only holding back when she attacked him on Earth, after she had taken advantage of his super-hearing. That's when it was stated she was holding back, for that assualt.



No, this proved that she could survive against a Superman that wanted to make her suffer before he killer her. She was getting her ass kicked for most the fight, and was tryiing to buy enough time to either get the lasso around Superman or get to Max Lord.



Right, Superman only defeated Doomsday right after OWAW. Stalemating him would be so much better. Oh, and Wonder Woman didn't stalemate the real Doomsday. When she did fight a legitimate version of Doomsday she was beaten. As far as I know she hasn't beaten a real version of Doomsday, only clones, and people transformed into Doomsday like beings.

How do you know it was a few seconds and even if it was it was still a amp. And how do you think she got that ear tag, did he let her, no she used skill and it never said that she was holding back due to him being hit in the ear she stated that she was holding back which could have meant the entire fight.

She wasnt getting her assed kicked, he blitzed her and she basically struggled to get out of a hold that she had on him but once they got on earth the tides changed.

why the hell am I arguing over who is better out of the two anyway, it dont matter, I like both of the characters. Just forget I ever brought her up.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
I just relooked at that sonic boom scan and saw that supes actually did show battle speed and not punching speed. And as i said wonderwoman has yet to show such speed againt a person in sustained physical combat. Im not talking about blocking bullets.

How do you explain the people that he was fighting still being able to see him. I guess they move at super sonic speed also. Can you show me the scan again, I had the comic but lost it.

Wonderwoman tagging zoom and flash proves that she has punching speed. If she was to fight quicksilver, do you think that she would be able to tag him.

Just want to know because even though him and her use there speed in a totally different way I still think that she has the ability to hit him.

Originally posted by carver9
How do you explain the people that he was fighting still being able to see him. I guess they move at super sonic speed also. Can you show me the scan again, I had the comic but lost it.

Wonderwoman tagging zoom and flash proves that she has punching speed. If she was to fight quicksilver, do you think that she would be able to tag him.

Just want to know because even though him and her use there speed in a totally different way I still think that she has the ability to hit him.

Tagging someone does not mean u can engage in sustained physical combat at high speeds with that person. Tagging a person is not an indicator of battle speed. Obviously i think she would be able to hit him but not go head to head with him at superspeed.

Originally posted by cmack
no one crushes hulk with physical force

except the juggernaut.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Your English is just fine. Carver's English hasn't always shown to be the best.



Uh...Eh-um... Shouldn't that be "Your English is fine. Carver's English hasn't always (BEEN) shown to be the best".

Originally posted by Nihilist
except the juggernaut.

When did this happen? You cant be talking about WWH where jugs got in three hits and hulk got in two can u? Granted going by hits jugs was winning but i cant define that as "crushing"

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Tagging someone does not mean u can engage in sustained physical combat at high speeds with that person. Tagging a person is not an indicator of battle speed. Obviously i think she would be able to hit him but not go head to head with him at superspeed.

I wasnt referring to wonderwoman when I said that statement I was referring to the guy that superman was fighting. He was able to see superman during the time he was creating sonic booms with his punches so basically the only thing that was moving fast was his hands which still isnt a indication of combat speed. Combat speed dont equal Speed blitz or fast hand punches but hey you all might see combat speed different then what I see. I see combat speed as someone being completely from eye sight while they are whipping your a**, you all see it as fast movement of hands which basically almost every comic book character has accomplished that (not on sonic boom levels).

Originally posted by The Illuminati
Uh...Eh-um... Shouldn't that be "Your English is fine. Carver's English hasn't always (BEEN) shown to be the best".




Now that was F***** up. Da** Im not loved on this forum. Do you see the pain you have caused me superman.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
When did this happen? You cant be talking about WWH where jugs got in three hits and hulk got in two can u? Granted going by hits jugs was winning but i cant define that as "crushing"

It never happened and if it did it was off panel.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
When did this happen? You cant be talking about WWH where jugs got in three hits and hulk got in two can u? Granted going by hits jugs was winning but i cant define that as "crushing"

He knocked out the Hulk in Incredible# 402. Would have killed him idf the Red Skull would not have stopped him. Granted this was Smart Hulk and not Savage. Hulk didn't know who he was fighting, but when he finally figured out he still couldn't stop Cain.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
He knocked out the Hulk in Incredible# 402. Would have killed him idf the Red Skull would not have stopped him. Granted this was Smart Hulk and not Savage. Hulk didn't know who he was fighting, but when he finally figured out he still couldn't stop Cain.

I have that fight and all it shows is that against a weaker hulk juggernaut has to use underhanded tactics to win. Heck he evn took advantage of when hulk tried to help him. That is a terrible example of cain crushing hulk as it was a weaker hulk who was not evn trying to him. All it shows is that juggernaut can beat a holding back hulk

Originally posted by ultimatethor
I have that fight and all it shows is that against a weaker hulk juggernaut has to use underhanded tactics to win. Heck he evn took advantage of when hulk tried to help him. That is a terrible example of cain crushing hulk as it was a weaker hulk who was not evn trying to him. All it shows is that juggernaut can beat a holding back hulk

But it did happen....and once smart hulk figured it out there was nothing he could do to stop it.

Originally posted by The Illuminati
Uh...Eh-um... Shouldn't that be "Your English is fine. Carver's English hasn't always (BEEN) shown to be the best".


Well, I was avoiding using passive voice. However, if you don't mind using it, then you can have 'been' right there.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
But it did happen....and once smart hulk figured it out there was nothing he could do to stop it.

By that time he was already on the back foot. but lets forget about hulk as he is not in this thread.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
By that time he was already on the back foot. but lets forget about hulk as he is not in this thread.

http://www.leaderslair.com/gammapeople/hulksmashes/hulk402.html


http://www.leaderslair.com/gammapeople/hulksmashes/hulksmashes2.html

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
http://www.leaderslair.com/gammapeople/hulksmashes/hulk402.html


http://www.leaderslair.com/gammapeople/hulksmashes/hulksmashes2.html

Sorry for going off topic again but am i missing something? why did u post that? All it shows is proof that juggernaut used underhanded tactics to win. That is evn implied in the statement beneath the picture.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Sorry for going off topic again but am i missing something? why did u post that? All it shows is proof that juggernaut used underhanded tactics to win. That is evn implied in the statement beneath the picture. How is it implied? I don't see it.

I would like to say one thing.

SMP crushes ANY Hulk.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
I would like to say one thing.

SMP crushes ANY Hulk. Dur . Personally think magic would be his downfall.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Dur . Personally think magic would be his downfall. ...Why? SMP has a very high resistance to magic.

Originally posted by janus77
Hulk's also survived the best that Onslaught could do, and eventually outpowered him.

Hulk's also stated that his "savage" Hulk days were his adolescence, that he has grown in power since then - this was during Tempus Fugit.

Hulk literally is the Strongest One There Is, infinite strength, infinite stamina and a healing factor that literally can raise him from the dead. Prime would demolish the Hulk physically 10/10 times.

Using his penis.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
...Why? SMP has a very high resistance to magic. It maybe high but do you think he would eat shot from Zom/Strange?

Originally posted by iceman24567
It maybe high but do you think he would eat shot from Zom/Strange? Considering WWH did...Yeah. haermm

Oh and is this base Prime or amped Prime?

Originally posted by Creshosk
How is it implied? I don't see it.

Sigh. Before hulk realizes who he is jugs knocks him out. Pretendin so u can knock out a charcter is an undehanded tactic.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Sigh. Before hulk realizes who he is jugs knocks him out. Pretendin so u can knock out a charcter is an undehanded tactic. That's not quite what the caption under the picture says:

" before Hulk realizes what he is into the Juggernaut knocks him out"

Biting off more than you can chew doesn't mean the other person was pretending anything.

Originally posted by Creshosk
That's not quite what the caption under the picture says:

" before Hulk realizes what he is into the Juggernaut knocks him out"

Biting off more than you can chew doesn't mean the other person was pretending anything.

The caption also says that the hulk just thought jugs was a big lumberjack. When it says b4 he realizes what he is into it means before he knows his opponent is the juggernaut. Now normally classifying it as biting off more than u can chew would be accurate but when u consider that the hulk was not attacking with full force and juggernaut deliberately dressed up in normal clothes to deceive hulk, then it can be considered as an underhanded tactic.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
The caption also says that the hulk just thought jugs was a big lumberjack. When it says b4 he realizes what he is into it means before he knows his opponent is the juggernaut.I think you're reaching a bit there.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Now normally classifying it as biting off more than u can chew would be accurate but when u consider that the hulk was not attacking with full force and juggernaut deliberately dressed up in normal clothes to deceive hulk,Because Juggernaut never dresses up in regular clothes ever, for any reason?

Originally posted by ultimatethor
then it can be considered as an underhanded tactic. Yeah, you're definitely reaching.

"He was dressed in civilian clothes just so he could deceive the hulk! He's a bad man!"

I think you're arguing for an absurd point. of course Juggernaut wore the lumberjack costume for a reason, when have we seen him fight in a lumberjack costume before?

it's obvious Juggernaut was in disguise because he wanted to catch Hulk off guard and mentally unprepared. that's exactly what he did.

Originally posted by Creshosk
I think you're reaching a bit there.

Because Juggernaut never dresses up in regular clothes ever, for any reason?

Yeah, you're definitely reaching.

"He was dressed in civilian clothes just so he could deceive the hulk! He's a bad man!"
I dont feel like wasting my time so ill keep it short. In that situation and considering what happened it would not be reaching to think that the juggernaut dressed up like that on purpose, He is afterall a villain and was following the orders of the red skull. Howver this is not definitve and evn if it was just a coincidence that juggernaut was dressed like that his dressing achieved a certian result whether intended or unintended and that result was hulk holding back immensely and to try to use such a fight in a forum as evidence of jugs superiority is ridculous

Who. Cares.

SMP is still stronger and more powerful than Huc.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Who. Cares.

SMP is still stronger and more powerful than Huc.

That is true.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Who. Cares.

SMP is still stronger and more powerful than Huc. Dur The Hulk is a non factor in this.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
I dont feel like wasting my time so ill keep it short. In that situation and considering what happened it would not be reaching to think that the juggernaut dressed up like that on purpose, He is afterall a villain and was following the orders of the red skull. Howver this is not definitve and evn if it was just a coincidence that juggernaut was dressed like that his dressing achieved a certian result whether intended or unintended and that result was hulk holding back immensely and to try to use such a fight in a forum as evidence of jugs superiority is ridculous Gee? I thought Huc had infinite strength and was strongest one there is.

He's also consistently proven to be the stupidest smart guy in comics. Common sense is beyond him.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Gee? I thought Huc had infinite strength and was strongest one there is.

He's also consistently proven to be the stupidest smart guy in comics. Common sense is beyond him.

I see that now u just fel like ranting. think what you want about the hulk but just dont use that fight in a jugs hulk debate period. Back on topic SMP would take both of them out.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Dur The Hulk is a non factor in this. Of course, so why people are arguing over whether or not one character who is fodder to SMP cheap shotted another character who is fodder to SMP is beyond me.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
I see that now u just fel like ranting. think what you want about the hulk but just dont use that fight in a jugs hulk debate period. Back on topic SMP would take both of them out. Sorry, I was getting you confused with Janus.

Though Hulk IS known for not letting lose when people pound on him.

I think Prime would win, He take son many of CD Earths heroes att he same time, he take son the Sinestro/Green Lantern corps at the same time !! Beats the golden age supes to death...hes practically unstopable !! he also survived a big bang !!wot can marvel do ??

Classic strange would take prime down.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
I dont feel like wasting my time so ill keep it short. In that situation and considering what happened it would not be reaching to think that the juggernaut dressed up like that on purpose, He is afterall a villain and was following the orders of the red skull. Howver this is not definitve and evn if it was just a coincidence that juggernaut was dressed like that his dressing achieved a certian result whether intended or unintended and that result was hulk holding back immensely and to try to use such a fight in a forum as evidence of jugs superiority is ridculous

Scratch the not definitve part, i just checked the comic again and saw that hulk asked juggernaut who he was and jugernaut went round the question not giving a definitve answer and tried to get technical. He evn said who he was did not matter.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Scratch the not definitve part, i just checked the comic again and saw that hulk asked juggernaut who he was and jugernaut went round the question not giving a definitve answer and tried to get technical. He evn said who he was did not matter. And then when Juggy hit him, Hulk thought he was a regular human. so continued to hold back.

Because Hulk is well known for holding back when people wail on him.

Originally posted by Creshosk
And then when Juggy hit him, Hulk thought he was a regular human. so continued to hold back.

Because Hulk is well known for holding back when people wail on him.


The writing was crappy but yes initially hulk did think he was a regular worker. Hulk thoughtbthat jugs was using some sort of trick. After jugs hit him a few times howver hulk began to doubt this. He howver was not sure and tells jugs during the fight that he is going to get hurt if he continues fighting. Also when hulk gets into a good position with jugs in quicksand he continues to question him and evn tries to help him out.

Since it was prof hulk he should have wised up long before heck evn savage hulk would have not acted like that but thats what happened and we cant do anything about it.

Originally posted by carnage52
yes current thor.

Nah SMP isn't crushing Current Thor.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
The writing was crappy but yes initially hulk did think he was a regular worker. Hulk thoughtbthat jugs was using some sort of trick. After jugs hit him a few times howver hulk began to doubt this. He howver was not sure and tells jugs during the fight that he is going to get hurt if he continues fighting. Also when hulk gets into a good position with jugs in quicksand he continues to question him and evn tries to help him out.

Since it was prof hulk he should have wised up long before heck evn savage hulk would have not acted like that but thats what happened and we cant do anything about it. And its still a win for Juggernaut as CIS is NOT exempt from these boards.

Originally posted by Creshosk
And its still a win for Juggernaut as CIS is NOT exempt from these boards.



Unfortunately hulk will know who his opponent is on these boards so tactics like that wont work.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Unfortunately hulk will know who his opponent is on these boards so tactics like that wont work. But it still shows that its possible for juggernaut to apply enough force at a velocity to knock Hulk out..

Originally posted by Creshosk
But it still shows that its possible for juggernaut to apply enough force at a velocity to knock Hulk out..



That was a much weaker hulk and if that was actually a topic for debate then it would not stand as proof. But it is not. Jugs can knock hulk out if he applies enough force. Who evr debated that?

Originally posted by ultimatethor
That was a much weaker hulk and if that was actually a topic for debate then it would not stand as proof. But it is not. Jugs can knock hulk out if he applies enough force. Who evr debated that? some of the characters around here.

MJJ would turn SMP into an apple pie.