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I've asked this question a dozen times and I've gotten two dozen wrong or insufficient answers. What makes believe Thanos is superior to Superman in any way? What makes one Think Superman can't beat or stalemate the Titan? Is Thanos faster? No way. Is thanos Stronger? Not according to feats. Is Thanos smarter? Not really. Is Thanos more durable? Not at all. Is Thanos capable of stronger blasts? Maybe, but I doubt it. Is Thanos an owner of a powerset as varied? Hell no. The one thing Thanos has that Superman doesn't is highend TP. Which doesn't matter since SM's all but immune to TP. Am I wrong here? I just don't get it. He I an wrong, I'd be glad. For I HATE Superman. Your thoughts.

Originally posted by long pig
I've asked this question a dozen times and I've gotten two dozen wrong or insufficient answers. What makes believe Thanos is superior to Superman in any way? What makes one Think Superman can't beat or stalemate the Titan? Is Thanos faster? No way. Is thanos Stronger? Not according to feats. Is Thanos smarter? Not really. Is Thanos more durable? Not at all. Is Thanos capable of stronger blasts? Maybe, but I doubt it. Is Thanos an owner of a powerset as varied? Hell no. The one thing Thanos has that Superman doesn't is highend TP. Which doesn't matter since SM's all but immune to TP. Am I wrong here? I just don't get it. He I an wrong, I'd be glad. For I HATE Superman. Your thoughts.
I couldn't agree more.

Superman is just as strong (probably a hell of a lot stronger btw), much much faster, just as durable (or it will be close) and at least as versatile as Thanos.

Thanos is a slow brick. The only thing that kept him alive - well, more or less - is his insane durability. He's a lazy fighter too, he mostly stands there and takes it.

Thanos also regularly comes out on top against people who'd be an even fight for Superman.

Originally posted by Q99
Thanos also regularly comes out on top against people who'd be an even fight for Superman.
Thanos hasn't fought that much people under his own power, he mostly uses tech or powerful artifacts, and if he does, there's a lot of PIS and CIS going on.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Thanos hasn't fought that much people under his own power, he mostly uses tech or powerful artifacts, and if he does, there's a lot of PIS and CIS going on.

He owned Thor and Thing, Warrior Madness Thor with power gem, owned Fallen One and Surfer.

It's his tech! It counts if he uses it.

Originally posted by Q99
It's his tech! It counts if he uses it. at least certain devices should be considered standard equipment.

facepalm @ Kurdys usual rubbish, not knowing what he is talking about.

Originally posted by long pig
What makes one Think Superman can't beat or stalemate the Titan?
I'll answer
No.
Yes, much stronger Yes...much much much smarter.

Most likely. No but he is more than just a brick.
. I don't see superman resisting thanos's mindrape.
Yes. Very.
How do you hate superman? Thanos is just much much stronger. He consisently treats high heralds like they are nothing. Heralds that would have supes the fight of his life.

Originally posted by Deadline
He owned Thor and Thing.
In a very old comic. Lot has happened since, Thor has Thanos sent flying with his hammer. And Thing is a non factor.

No he didn't. Liar.

He blasted Fallen One and that was it. Do you think something like that would work on Supeman ? Seriously ?

And FYI, if Surfer would fight Superman just like the way he fought Thanos - that is like a brainless brawler - Superman would own Surfer just as hard.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
I'll answer
No.
Yes, much stronger Yes...much much much smarter.

Most likely. No but he is more than just a brick.
. I don't see superman resisting thanos's mindrape.
Yes. Very.
How do you hate superman? Thanos is just much much stronger. He consisently treats high heralds like they are nothing. Heralds that would have supes the fight of his life. cosigned.

superman may have better feats, but if they meet in a comic, thanos will be depicted as superior.

Originally posted by Starscream M
superman may have better feats, but if they meet in a comic, thanos will be depicted as superior.
Nice contradiction.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Nice contradiction. how is it a contradiction? superior feats doesn't always translate to superior power.

superman prob has superior feats to some skyfathers.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Thor has Thanos sent flying with his hammer Never happened.

Unless you are referring to IG #6 in which thor sucker punched(or sucker hanmmer threw) at thanos.

what makes thanos superior? the company's stance on the character.

Originally posted by leonidas
what makes thanos superior? the company's stance on the character. yep

Originally posted by long pig
I've asked this question a dozen times and I've gotten two dozen wrong or insufficient answers. What makes believe Thanos is superior to Superman in any way? What makes one Think Superman can't beat or stalemate the Titan? Is Thanos faster? No way. Is thanos Stronger? Not according to feats. Is Thanos smarter? Not really. Is Thanos more durable? Not at all. Is Thanos capable of stronger blasts? Maybe, but I doubt it. Is Thanos an owner of a powerset as varied? Hell no. The one thing Thanos has that Superman doesn't is highend TP. Which doesn't matter since SM's all but immune to TP. Am I wrong here? I just don't get it. He I an wrong, I'd be glad. For I HATE Superman. Your thoughts.

Thanos has far less exploitable weak points.

Superman is vulnerable to magic based assaults, and anything to do with solar energy manipulation (loading him up with red solar energy will depower him, etc). There's also the kryptonite problem. if you have it, or can replicate it's frequency, he's boned.

Thanos can't be taken out that easily (Drax plot device aside) a KO has to be done through brute force. This has proven very hard to do, since Thanos can use some kind of cosmic energy to Amp his stats. The limits of this energy haven't yet been defined. Superman cannot do this.

Thanos is also an eternal, with innate control over his body down to a molecular level, and the inherent ability to teleport. Superman has neither of these advantages.

Thanos is also a substantially better strategist and is sitting on a pile of advanced tech as standard issue. He has shields that can tank hits that can one shot planets (see the Thanos vs. Champion fight) Guns that can immobilize an enraged, power gem equipped thor (Thor vs. Thanos fight) and can BFR an opponent pretty much anywhere (Too numerous to mention).

This is why Thanos > Superman by anyone reasonable.

The only thing thats debatable is how fast thanos is, but his stats (including speed) don't appear to have set limits. He's not displayed as speedster, but opponents who ARE, or should have the ability to (Surfer) have never been able to overcome him using speed as an advantage. When opponents than DO have a speed advantage consistently can't or don't use it against you, there's probably a reason.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
In a very old comic. Lot has happened since, Thor has Thanos sent flying with his hammer. And Thing is a non factor.


Thing isn't a non-factor I think Thor+Thing are formidable opponents and he owned them both. I don't see Superman doing that.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy

No he didn't. Liar.

Absolutely, I mean if I actually got the info incorrect I'm obvoulsy lying. I think I'll start calling random strangers liars now, you've inspired me.

Anyway I'm quite sure he did....but of course I could be wrong. Wow!

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy


He blasted Fallen One and that was it. Do you think something like that would work on Supeman ? Seriously ?

No but Fallen One is a herald lvl character and I don't see Superman owning him that hard.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy



And FYI, if Surfer would fight Superman just like the way he fought Thanos - that is like a brainless brawler - Superman would own Surfer just as hard.

Oh I see so you like passing judgement on people you don't know about and you like making assumptions and arguing that they're fact, ok got it.

Yea I'm quite sure that would happen eventhough there are loads of other examples of him not fighting like that.

thanos is stronger more durable much smarter, and alot more powerful

.

Originally posted by leonidas
what makes thanos superior? the company's stance on the character. You mean the same way DC's stance is that Superman beats Darkseid, to whom Thanos has always been portrayed as an analogue, be it DC vs Marvel or JLA/Avengers (though in this one it was just a statement) - which includes Marvel's 'company stance"?

Originally posted by long pig
What makes Thanos superior to Superman in any way?

NOTHING

In his true, Final Crisis and Seven Soldiers form, sure.

But you don't read the comics, so you wouldn't know.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Never happened.

Unless you are referring to IG #6 in which thor sucker punched(or sucker hanmmer threw) at thanos.
Now that you mention it, it was without Mjolnir, it was just a punch from Masterson Thor.

That's even worse for Thanos, who at that time was by far the most powerful villain of the 616 universe.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I have read some comics, and supplemented that with other media and I know Darkseid is intended to be above Superman in power (otherwise it wouldn't be impressive when Superman does beat him)

If Darkseid is so much above superman how come supes is always kicking his ass. Losing to Superman is a low showing for Darksied and Thanos would never lose to Superman. he would beat him to death.

Originally posted by Deadline
Thing isn't a non-factor I think Thor+Thing are formidable opponents and he owned them both. I don't see Superman doing that.
I do. One good haymaker from Superman and the lights go out for Thing.

And (sigh) Thanos did not beat WM Thor. He fought him a bit, realized he couldn't beat him and used some fancy weapon that apparantly was lying around.

That screams "plot device."

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Now that you mention it, it was without Mjolnir, it was just a punch from Masterson Thor.

That's even worse for Thanos, who at that time was by far the most powerful villain of the 616 universe. Actually, no. Masterson threw his hammer at thanos and knocked him back a few hundred feet.

So if Clark and Thanos took an IQ test, Thanos would get the highest score ?

come on

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Actually, no. Masterson threw his hammer at thanos and knocked him back a few hundred feet.
No that was the last comic.

Originally posted by chomperx9
So if Clark and Thanos took an IQ test, Thanos would get the highest score ?

come on Yes. By far.Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
No that was the last comic. Yeah. Thats what i'm talking about.

Both time thanos has been knocked down by thor it was a sucker shot.

Thanos is a professional athlete. Darkseid is a high school gym teacher.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Yes. By far. I don't think thanos is much smarter, if at all, than superman. thanos may be more crafty and sneaky, but superman in all likelihood has a better mind.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy

I do. One good haymaker from Superman and the lights go out for Thing.

And (sigh) Thanos did not beat WM Thor. He fought him a bit, realized he couldn't beat him and used some fancy weapon that apparantly was lying around.

That screams "plot device."

really, no one should be able to take out a power gem equipped, warrior madness Thor.

The fact that thanos is known to carry around a lot of tech isn't a plot device, that's part of the character.

Certain characters (Reed, Doom, Apocalypse, Thanos) are known to be sitting on piles of extremely advanced tech- for them whipping out random shields and guns etc in battle isn't "plot device", it's in line with what the character would do. Note that this is even MORE valid when you consider Thor was teleported right in the middle of Thanos' base of operations-

The same thing happened in Loki vs. Apocalypse. Loki ambushes apocalypse in his HQ, they fight for a bit and apocalypse uses his tech to powerdrain him.



absolutely not. Thanos amped his powers with cybernetic implants to become the most powerful of his race (when starting out among the weakest), Created a clone army so sophisticated Death and Watchers can't tell them from the real thing, created his own starship fully equipped with planet destroying devices- has become "god" through mastery of cosmic devices not once but twice...(His mastery of the gems and the cosmic cube were both many times that of every other user in the galaxy) and remember he CREATED the infinity gauntlet that united the gems for the first time.

by feats thanos' intelligence level is many times that of superman.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I don't think thanos is much smarter, if at all, than superman. thanos may be more crafty and sneaky, but superman in all likelihood has a better mind.

No way dude. Thanos mind is up there with the best in the Marvel universe. It gets to a point when being craft and cunning is being smart. Thanos Has book smarts and common sense as well as cunning.

He would have to be a genuis to have figured out all of the plans he has , Gauntlet, hotu etc. Remember he outsmarted mephisto.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
No way dude. Thanos mind is up there with the best in the Marvel universe. It gets to a point when being craft and cunning is being smart. Thanos Has book smarts and common sense as well as cunning.

He would have to be a genuis to have figured out all of the plans he has , Gauntlet, hotu etc. Remember he outsmarted mephisto. well, in the pure IQ sense, I think superman matches or even trumps thanos

Originally posted by Starscream M
well, in the pure IQ sense, I think superman matches or even trumps thanos

What has Superman done that trumps Thanos in the IQ department. I am asking for just one example because i truley dont know.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
No way dude. Thanos mind is up there with the best in the Marvel universe. It gets to a point when being craft and cunning is being smart. Thanos Has book smarts and common sense as well as cunning.

He would have to be a genuis to have figured out all of the plans he has , Gauntlet, hotu etc. Remember he outsmarted mephisto.
True. But I've never thought of Thanos as being smarter than let's say Reed Richards.

If Reed Richards would, for some reason, turn evil, he'll probably kill every hero/villain in a few days and destroy the universe in the weekend.

No. Combat fighting strength, yes. Space cheese lifting feats no. On average yes.. Again on average yes. .Yes Yes, TP,TK,Matter Manipulation,Teleportation,Various forms of energy projection/absorbation.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
What has Superman done that trumps Thanos in the IQ department. I am asking for just one example because i truley dont know. iirc, he's read entire books in seconds and he also has a perfect memory (ie he never forgets) plus his mind is superfast like a computer

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
True. But I've never thought of Thanos as being smarter than let's say Reed Richards.

If Reed Richards would, for some reason, turn evil, he'll probably kill every hero/villain in a few days and destroy the universe in the weekend.

Reed is definitely on another level. Both he and Doom are very, very tough to beat intellectually. given resources they can do literally anything.



those are speed feats, not intelligence feats. The Flash can do that as well, but he is consistently portrayed as less intelligent than say, Batman. What are his feats in terms of innovation? creation? engineering?

Reed and Doom can't read books in seconds, but both are indisputably far, far more intelligent than superman.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
True. But I've never thought of Thanos as being smarter than let's say Reed Richards.

If Reed Richards would, for some reason, turn evil, he'll probably kill every hero/villain in a few days and destroy the universe in the weekend.


I see what you are saying, but I give the edge to Thanos just from being from a civilization that is more advanced than Earth. Titan has superior tech than earth. I figured Thanos has studied stuff richards could never dream off.

Originally posted by Starscream M
iirc, he's read entire books in seconds and he also has a perfect memory (ie he never forgets) plus his mind is superfast like a computer

Reading an entire book is nothing....any speedster could probably do that? He has a good memory, but can he think of new and inventive things. Superfast mind...so does flash.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I don't think thanos is much smarter, if at all, than superman. thanos may be more crafty and sneaky, but superman in all likelihood has a better mind.

Thanos is one of the top minds in the MU.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
No way dude. Thanos mind is up there with the best in the Marvel universe. It gets to a point when being craft and cunning is being smart. Thanos Has book smarts and common sense as well as cunning.

He would have to be a genuis to have figured out all of the plans he has , Gauntlet, hotu etc. Remember he outsmarted mephisto.

Don't forget that he also discovered/developed biological applications of the power cosmic.

Originally posted by dmills
Don't forget that he also discovered/developed biological applications of the power cosmic.

Hell he cloned Galactus DNA........Galactus He is an genuis

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
I see what you are saying, but I give the edge to Thanos just from being from a civilization that is more advanced than Earth. Titan has superior tech than earth. I figured Thanos has studied stuff richards could never dream off.

nah. Titan has stuff more advanced than earth, but Reed has demonstrated an understanding of even Celestial tech, and the stuff galactus uses.

Reed's knowledge of science and technology surpasses all known civilizations in 616. The stuff titanian eternals are using is practically stone age in comparison.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
Hell he cloned Galactus DNA........Galactus He is an genuis
Don't forget that Thanos uses both technology of his own and of other Eternals. It's not like he invented every single thing.

Reed on the other hand has invented almost everything you see.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Don't forget that Thanos uses both technology of his own and of other Eternals. It's not like he invented every single thing.

Reed on the other hand has invented almost everything you see. Your point? Superman isn't, nor is he even in the same ballpark, or even the same planet as reed.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Don't forget that Thanos uses both technology of his own and of other Eternals. It's not like he invented every single thing.

Reed on the other hand has invented almost everything you see.

pretty much.

This thread isn't really about Reed vs. Thanos though. Reed and Doom are top tier for marvel, but Thanos' intelligence level is still very, very high.

Looking at Thanos' scientific feats and what he's accomplished (mastering cubes, uniting the gems, clone army, planet killing starship) it's pretty clear he's well over superman.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
nah. Titan has stuff more advanced than earth, but Reed has demonstrated an understanding of even Celestial tech, and the stuff galactus uses.

Reed's knowledge of science and technology surpasses all known civilizations in 616. The stuff titanian eternals are using is practically stone age in comparison.

Which begs the question. If Reed can do all that why can't he think of the things he comes across. I mean sure he can understand Kangs futuristic technollogy once its presented to him. What I am saying is why hasnt he invented tech like that yet?

Sure he understands 616 civilizations tech when he sees it, but why hasent he invented faster than light travel for earth? He undertands Dooms time machine, but apparently he cant build one himself.

edit: I am in no way knocking Richards

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
Which begs the question. If Reed can do all that why can't he think of the things he comes across. I mean sure he can understand Kangs futuristic technollogy once its presented to him. What I am saying is why hasnt he invented tech like that yet?

Sure he understands 616 civilizations tech when he sees it, but why hasent he invented faster than light travel for earth? He undertands Dooms time machine, but apparently he cant build one himself.

edit: I am in no way knocking Richards Why doesn't he take a weekend to cure cancer?

Or a week to end the energy crisis?

Cuz Reed is f*cking useless.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Superman isn't, nor is he even in the same ballpark, or even the same planet as reed. I lol'ed

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Why doesn't he take a weekend to cure cancer?

Or a week to end the energy crisis?

Cuz Reed is f*cking useless.
http://i.imgur.com/AATz7.jpg

Well, at least people don't think Strange can beat Thanos anymore...

And I like how two known Thanos haters who never provide proof are the ones trying to explain stuff to... everyone else. Woah bro, you sure told them!

Superman vs Thanos has been done before though.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Well, at least people don't think Strange can beat Thanos anymore...

And I like how two known Thanos haters who never provide proof are the ones trying to explain stuff to... everyone else. Woah bro, you sure told them!

Superman vs Thanos has been done before though.
+
Originally posted by Parmaniac
I lol'ed

Classic Strange cant beat Thanos?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Classic Strange cant beat Thanos? He can. Current has no chance.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy

I do. One good haymaker from Superman and the lights go out for Thing.

You do? Didn't you suddenly decide that Surfer would fight like a brick and get owned by Superman? What is that point of view based on?

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy

And (sigh) Thanos did not beat WM Thor.

Uh yea he did, thats why he was in that block of force. The context of the fight was that Thanos could have beaten him without it anyway, plus I'm not even sure if it's not allowed because he used it against Odin.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy


He fought him a bit,

I think that was several pages in comic terms thats a long time. In fact I had quick look at the respect thread and it's 8 pages, thats not a bit.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy


realized he couldn't beat him and used some fancy weapon that apparantly was lying around.

That screams "plot device."

Nah man thats not what happened. Thanos was smiling and stated that he grew tired of fighting, Pip also stated that Thanos was enjoying himself. That doesn't indicate that he couldn't beat him that indicates that he could of beaten him with some difficulty but wanted to end the fight quickly, you're basically misinterpreting what happened.

If he can beat a WM Thor with power gem thats pretty much consistent with him being able to own Thor and Thing. Superman isn't owning Thor and Thing.

Originally posted by Deadline
The context of the fight was that Thanos could have beaten him without it anyway

Nah man thats not what happened. Thanos was smiling and stated that he grew tired of fighting, Pip also stated that Thanos was enjoying himself. That doesn't indicate that he couldn't beat him that indicates that he could of beaten him with some difficulty but wanted to end the fight quickly, you're basically misinterpreting what happened.


Originally posted by Deadline
The context of the fight was that Thanos could have beaten him without it anyway

Nah man thats not what happened. Thanos was smiling and stated that he grew tired of fighting, Pip also stated that Thanos was enjoying himself. That doesn't indicate that he couldn't beat him that indicates that he could of beaten him with some difficulty but wanted to end the fight quickly, you're basically misinterpreting what happened.


Originally posted by Deadline
The context of the fight was that Thanos could have beaten him without it anyway

Nah man thats not what happened. Thanos was smiling and stated that he grew tired of fighting, Pip also stated that Thanos was enjoying himself. That doesn't indicate that he couldn't beat him that indicates that he could of beaten him with some difficulty but wanted to end the fight quickly, you're basically misinterpreting what happened.


Originally posted by Deadline
The context of the fight was that Thanos could have beaten him without it anyway

Nah man thats not what happened. Thanos was smiling and stated that he grew tired of fighting, Pip also stated that Thanos was enjoying himself. That doesn't indicate that he couldn't beat him that indicates that he could of beaten him with some difficulty but wanted to end the fight quickly, you're basically misinterpreting what happened.


Originally posted by Deadline
you're misinterpreting

.

Originally posted by Starscream M
how is it a contradiction? superior feats doesn't always translate to superior power.

superman prob has superior feats to some skyfathers. If you want to take superman at only top feats he's near abstract in a lot of what he does and that's under his own power barring PIS and retarded amps. At times his strength, speed, durability (including his weakness to magic and kryptonite), heat vision, cold breath and various other capabilities have been at some point or another far beyond anything most other characters could hope to do.

Is it silly or just downright bad writing for the continued existence of a character? You bet your ass it is, but that's just the way superman has always been handled. When the chips are down in DC and the universe needs a hero for an unstoppable threat that no other force in the universe can handle it's often superman who steps up to the plate and takes care of business. It's happened often enough that it really can't be called a PIS event because it's just what Superman does.

So to answer the question of is Thanos better than Superman I'd have to go with a definitive no. Thanos can be called a villain equivalent to Superman. When the time comes for him to step up to the plate as the major villain to be the threat that heroes need to face Thanos answers the call. However unlike Superman often times this involves powers or amps that are plainly not his own. Infinity Gauntlet, Heart of the Universe, Avatar of Death, Reality Gem / other gems, or some form of tech that makes him utterly broken.

However I do find this to be a better method of explaining a characters reason for being godly powerful rather than Superman for all intents and purposes willing himself stronger.

According to Pr, Superman had a plan to create a new Earth, just in case the current one was destroyed.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
He can. Current has no chance. He can't.

Long Pig Strange can though. Which is not Classic or Current, but what this entire forum thinks he is.

as far as feats are concerned...

Thanos: 366 appearances
Superman: 6829 appearances

Originally posted by inimalist
as far as feats are concerned...

Thanos: 366 appearances
Superman: 6829 appearances researched or just written for shits and giggles?

Originally posted by long pig
I've asked this question a dozen times and I've gotten two dozen wrong or insufficient answers. What makes believe Thanos is superior to Superman in any way? What makes one Think Superman can't beat or stalemate the Titan? Is Thanos faster? No way. Is thanos Stronger? Not according to feats. Is Thanos smarter? Not really. Is Thanos more durable? Not at all. Is Thanos capable of stronger blasts? Maybe, but I doubt it. Is Thanos an owner of a powerset as varied? Hell no. The one thing Thanos has that Superman doesn't is highend TP. Which doesn't matter since SM's all but immune to TP. Am I wrong here? I just don't get it. He I an wrong, I'd be glad. For I HATE Superman. Your thoughts. Thanos has a wrinkled, prune chin. Superman does not. So Thanos wins the odd looking chin category. I hope that helps. thanduros

Originally posted by inimalist
as far as feats are concerned...

Thanos: 366 appearances
Superman: 6829 appearances Joking or actually serious?

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
He can't.

Long Pig Strange can though. Which is not Classic or Current, but what this entire forum thinks he is. I think he can. He doesn't have as much firepower but he enough exotic methods.

Originally posted by inimalist
Give Thanos 6000+ appearances, and I bet he has some feats that make Clark blush.

Maybe. But he'll also have a lot of low showings.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Maybe. But he'll also have a lot of low showings. Like Supes

Just out of curiosity to which low showings are you reffering

Originally posted by inimalist
its from comicvine. They keep a tally, so it is as accurate as any sort of user generated list like that is, but superior, I've found, to others, like comic db (which doesn't keep a tally, unfortunatly).

The number is definately not exact, because it includes reprints and collections, but in this case, the difference is close to 15-20 times, which was my larger point. Give Thanos 6000+ appearances, and I bet he has some feats that make Clark blush.
Unless they're counting pre Crisis, that whole number is hugely innacurate - by a factor of thousands. I can tell you that because I have all of those appearances, and they're around 2100-2200, including comics like the ones in which he appears for a page.

And it's a good thing you brought up this appearances thing, beacuse I wanted to adress this for a while.

Out of those ~2000 appearances and 25 years, he spent more than a decade under the Byrne shadow, where people have written him consistently at a lower powerlevel, to portray him at the opposite pole of his Pre-Crisis counterpart, and it wasn't until Jeph Loeb got a hold of him, and Grant Morrison started featuring him in the JLA that his powers actually increased - literally, as in story arcs dedicated to this, and not just his feats becoming more impressive.

So, at best, you have Superman with about 3-4 times as many appearances as Thanos, around a decade's worth of showings and also not dealing with cosmic level opponents/threads on a daily basis, like Thanos does on nearly every appearance.

And Superman would still destroy him in a feat war of any kind.

I think a little common sense needs to be applied even if Superman beats him on feats he's still not more powerful. Hell you might even argue that Surfer and Thor could beat Thanos in a feat war but if you look at their feats consistently Superman and others are not in the class of Thanos. You could argue that he could win via speedblitz.

Hell based on feats you could possibly argue Batman > Deathstroke.

Originally posted by inimalist
I don't see why that makes the numbers inaccurate... Because current Superman doesn't have that many appearances; taking everything into consideration, including only panel appearances, he gets a bit above 2000, but nowhere near 6000. I thought I made that perfectly clear?
Originally posted by inimalist
and it looks silly that you are trying to say Superman doesn't really have more appearances than thanos... Are you having reading problems, or are you just saying this for the sake of trolling?

Originally posted by inimalist
That you think Superman only has 2000 appearances relevant to the thread doesn't invalidate anything Superman has only 2000 appearances valid to post Crisis Superman Superman. It's not "this thread" Superman. It's the Superman we're discussing on the forum. You know that one, right? Not Red Son? Not Pre-Crisis? Not Golden Age? Yeah, that Superman.

Thus the statistics you posted are wrong, and dont apply to anything related to the discussions and the characters involved.

I have to say, you're doing a crying-worthy job of backtracking.

Originally posted by inimalist
does it have to be one of those options? Yes. I never said that. So either you can't read, or you're purposely trolling. Which is it?

Originally posted by inimalist
you realize the Comicvine numbers are not sorted according to Pre-crisis and Post-crisis, yes? If you knew the statistic you posted was truly that worthless to the discussion, then you could have posted that they're counting both pre and post crisis appearances as to not induce people into thinking it's only the post-Crisis appearances, no?

And it's funny you're asking me this, since I'm the one who pointed out that the statistics must be including both the pre and post Crisis appearances, since the post-Crisis number is much smaller, because you were clueless. But now you're apparently trying to say that you knew all along, but chose to not mention that very important detail?

phil, if we take your logic one step further and get even more relevant numerical accounting, we would use page count instead of simply appearances (as a 2 page appearance is not the same as a 20page appearance)

and if we go by appearances as by page count, even counting postcrisis, superman would have more than 10 to 1 lead on thanos

Originally posted by inimalist
What they do illustrate is the point that Superman has vastly more appearances than Thanos. When all those appearances include alternate reality versions of Superman from dead universes, how is this statistic relevant in any way?

It's like taking a character from Marvel, counting all of his What Ifs, and saying that he has more appearances than another character, so this somewhat is relevant to something.

I ask you again, what was the point of posting that, when they're including the appearances of different versions of the character?

to have something a little more concrete than saying "Superman has way more appearances than Thanos, dur"

While the numbers aren't exact, its not like they don't illustrate something

Originally posted by inimalist
to have something a little more concrete than saying "Superman has way more appearances than Thanos, dur"

While the numbers aren't exact, its not like they don't illustrate something They illustrate what, pertaining to the Superman we use in debates (as in, not an amalgam of pre-Crisis, Red Son, Earth 22, Superman 1 Million and more) and Thanos?

That all of the appearances of the combined versions of all the Supermen in existence are larger than the appearances of Thanos?

Good job, inimalist! Stay relevant, my friend.

Originally posted by inimalist
to have something a little more concrete than saying "Superman has way more appearances than Thanos, dur"

While the numbers aren't exact, its not like they don't illustrate something in all likelihood, you prob underestimated how much more appearances superman has than thanos with those issue appearaces.

So now that we don't use the "Superman has so much more appearances, it's unfair to have a feat-war with him!!" once it's debunked, we move on to the favorite second excuse, "He is DC's flagship character, of course he is going to have the feats!!"?

I love the double standards - we can't use the "He's Batman" excuse when we say why he wins, but once we actually provide feats, the opposition can say "He's Superman" as something that somehow makes feats unusable as a comparison method.

This is just pathetic.

Originally posted by inimalist
to have something a little more concrete than saying "Superman has way more appearances than Thanos, dur"

While the numbers aren't exact, its not like they don't illustrate something

ignore if your friend, inimal.

and if i'm understanding what you're saying we should likely only be looking at thanos since, what, ss #75 when he came back because all prior appearances he was significantly less powerful. so yeah, that would drastically cut his 'relevant' appearances down.

as per the 'company stance' issue--thanos never loses to heralds. ever. never even close, actually, while both clark and orion have beaten ds 1on1. now you either believe that orion and clark>all marvel heralds (fine by me, just back it up) or they are NOT portrayed the same, despite their obvious similarities. i suppose in essence though what it really means is that clark and orion>ds avatar. which would mean thanos is analogous to a ds avatar, but.... feats and direct battles would indicate this isn't the case. wolverine also battled lobo if i recall right. they must be analogous too.

dc knows and has made it clear true ds>>>>>superman and greater than thanos too. comparisons between them will always exist, and perhaps an analogue will always be drawn, but people who read the books themselves know that the analogy is only apt to a point.

imo, thanos>ds avatar, but true ds>thanos.

I'm probably being Debbie Downer here, but uh.....

Is this thread necessary? Don't we already have a Superman vs Tha....

...ah forget it. It's whatever. It's effin' whatever.

It's because long pig hates Thanos and he wants to show it.

Argh.

It's good to see you realize how idiotic the 'counting appearances and dressing it as a stealth argument' is.

Next time, refrain from doing so.
Originally posted by inimalist
I don't think anyone has made any of those arguments, or actually attempted to refute any superman feats
Originally posted by inimalist
I would agree, combined with the fact Superman is almost always the protagonist and one of the best selling characters in the DC stable, it would hardly be surprising that he has a number of ludicrously high end feats You're excusing his high-end feats by using his position within the company.

actually, you can go as far back as the Wolverine vs Beast thread and see my position on this hasn't changed

It is unfortunate you are unable to see how I was using those numbers

Originally posted by inimalist
as far as feats are concerned...

Thanos: 366 appearances
Superman: 6829 appearances I can see how you used them just fine.

You can't really backtrack on the internet because everything is right there, you see.

.

Argh! facepalm This thread.

I'm not sure the 'X character has more appearances' is ever a concrete indicator of anything but 'X character having more appearances'.

Originally posted by inimalist
yes, superman has more appearances and would have more high end feats... crylaugh

This is hilarious. So now you admit you used those numbers to justify why Superman has more high-end feats, eventough those numbers include all the versions of superman, even elseworlds and alternate universes?

This has got to be the worst attempted face-saving in KMC history.

Edit: Lawlz at the edit.

"I was using those numbers to show that, but not really!"

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I'm not sure the 'X character has more appearances' is ever a concrete indicator of anything but 'X character having more appearances'. im pretty sure having more appearances = having more feats

ie if I take a random sample of 20 issues of superman, I may not find any impressive feats. if I expand that to 200, probability increases that I will find some high end feats.

I have a feeling this was the point he was trying to make.


Originally posted by inimalist
its from comicvine. They keep a tally, so it is as accurate as any sort of user generated list like that is, but superior, I've found, to others, like comic db (which doesn't keep a tally, unfortunatly).

The number is definately not exact, because it includes reprints and collections, but in this case, the difference is close to 15-20 times, which was my larger point. Give Thanos 6000+ appearances, and I bet he has some feats that make Clark blush.

I forget who said it, but someone mentioned Clark at his top is "abstract" level, not at how he normally is depicted though, whereas, imho, Thanos is constantly depicted at a level that surpasses Superman.

Originally posted by Starscream M
im pretty sure having more appearances = having more feats

ie if I take a random sample of 20 issues of superman, I may not find any impressive feats. if I expand that to 200, probability increases that I will find some high end feats. If you take 20 random issues of Superman, you'll not find him confronting high-heralds, or the story taking place in cosmic settings in most of them either.

If you do the same for Thanos, the opposite is likely.

Thanos, on average, is portrayed as more powerful than Superman, on average.

That's it. Full stop.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
What has Superman done that trumps Thanos in the IQ department. I am asking for just one example because i truley dont know. In a matter of seconds, Superman memorized the exact workings of the miracle machine (down to every last nut and bolt) - then he recalled said information, and used it as the blueprints to build his own miracle machine, from scratch.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
I think he can. He doesn't have as much firepower but he enough exotic methods. Like what?

He'd be lucky to beat Superman magic weakness withstanding IMO...

Originally posted by Existere
Thanos, on average, is portrayed as more powerful than Superman, on average.

That's it. Full stop.

uh-oh, careful with that kind of talk smurph. could get you in trouble and lead to a feat war where it is clear clark surpasses him......

Originally posted by inimalist
this is actually a really simple rule, it is true of pretty much everything observable in the universe...

If you have a something that you measure 10 times and one that you measure 100 times, you are more likely to get extreme measures from the latter, even if the things are identical...

so, the value is X, +/- Y amount of variance, and Y can differ between +J and -K. When you take 10 measures, each time you have a chance of getting the max X+J or X-K value, but it is more likely that you will get less extreme values (Y will equal something between J and K). So, when you have 100 measures, you have the exact same odds of getting any X+J or X-K score on each measure, but overall, you have a better chance of one of those 100 measures being the max variance than you do with only 10 measures.

... I suppose you could try to argue against this... It's good to see you've retreated out of trying to dance around the initial, irrelevant and mis-informed appearances posting.

Now, for your analogy to the measurements - that would be true, if not for the fact that the characters operate in completly different settings, and thus while it's easier to get the average of the character with consistent, limited number of performances and appearances, in this case Thanos - because he operates on a cosmic, and his appearances mostly involve taking mid/high heralds and high cosmic beings like Galactus, the same cannot be said for Superman, for Superman operates on every level of challenges - from street, to meta, to heralds and all the variations in-between and above, adjusting his power and performances accordingly, as its the nature of the character, as a hero, to hold back and not mantain a consistent, say, planet-busting or flash-level speedblitzing powerlevel.

Take 10 samples from Superman and, depending on what samples you take, he is a low-end brick confronting high-metas, or confronting teams of heralds and doing just fine. Is it fair to try and calculate his average from these two performances, as something in between? No, because the first example isn't a fair portrayal of what he is truly capable of, it's not an accurate display of power - and thus the measurements of power we observe are not accurate for the overall picture.

If we truly want to compare the average of Superman and Thanos, then the best course is to take their performances against teams, opponents, both high-end and top-tierish, and see what we can obtain, not say that all of Superman's performances at that same level are top-feats, and we shouldn't judge him based on that, but somewhat me must take a mean value between his performances against low-powered opponents and high-powered ones.

It's like, for example, having a person square off against a bunny, and then having him square off against a person of simiar age and build, and saying that what he's capable of on average is somewhere in-between, thus the person, or similar persons to the one he's fought, should be able to beat him. Or, to fit your anology better, have him square against 10 bunnies, 5 squrrels, and 3 persons, and counting the persons as high-end, or the 'extreme value'. It doesn't work like that.

I dont disagree with that, do you see how that is a different point from the one about the greater probability of higher performances with larger numbers of appearances?

.

The best way to compare feats regarding Supes and Thanos is to look at their showings against the same level of foe - their battles against herald level characters, for instance.

Because we know that Superman is WELL beyond Thanos, feat for feat.

Originally posted by Galan007
The best way to compare feats regarding Supes and Thanos is to look at their showings against the same level of foe - their battles against herald level characters, for instance.

Because we know that Superman is WELL beyond Thanos, feat for feat.

yep. as supes is beyond practically everyone when it goes feat for feat. i do think that kal would do better against thanos than anyone else in marvel has done, but doesn't change the fact that thanos>supes.

Originally posted by leonidas
uh-oh, careful with that kind of talk smurph. could get you in trouble and lead to a feat war where it is clear clark surpasses him...... Ha. I'm sure Surfer has an equal edge in a feat war against Thanos, as does every other being that Thanos has struck down or outright beat in the past.

I guess Thanos probably falls in the meta tier. mmm

.

Originally posted by Existere
Ha. I'm sure Surfer has an equal edge in a feat war against Thanos, as does every other being that Thanos has struck down or outright beat in the past.

I guess Thanos probably falls in the meta tier. mmm

well, no dur. ss is like WAY faster. if he used his speed correctly he--or anyone--should handle thanos like, everytime! he's just a brick and should fall to anyone with any speed at all. so, yeah, i agree--thanos to meta.

Wait is Phil actually saying thanos doesn't have significantly more appearance than thanos, n thus by default many more feats? Or just being particular about the exact number of more? Hard to tell.

Anyways are people actually arguing superman is just as smart as thanos? That is some of the dumbest shit I have seen in awhile around here. Thanos has been compared to and even stated to have superior tech than some of the top minds in marvel. Not only does he have feats that backs this up, superman neither has the feats nor narration that compare him to the top minds as thanos does.

What is almost as idiotic is thinking superman is just as versatile as thanos. Superman doesn't have total molecular control of his body. Doesn't have tp nor tp, can't teleport on his own, can't matter manipulate, can't take people to the astral p, does employ tech nor have the tech thanos has, does synthesize n use other energies as thanos can.. example him beimg able to use the power cosmic,. I mean honestly it is not even close.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Wait is Phil actually saying thanos doesn't have significantly more appearance than thanos, n thus by default many more feats? Or just being particular about the exact number of more? Hard to tell.

Anyways are people actually arguing superman is just as smart as thanos? That is some of the dumbest shit I have seen in awhile around here. Thanos has been compared to and even stated to have superior tech than some of the top minds in marvel. Not only does he have feats that backs this up, superman neither has the feats nor narration that compare him to the top minds as thanos does.

What is almost as idiotic is thinking superman is just as versatile as thanos. Superman doesn't have total molecular control of his body. Doesn't have tp nor tp, can't teleport on his own, can't matter manipulate, can't take people to the astral p, does employ tech nor have the tech thanos has, does synthesize n use other energies as thanos can.. example him beimg able to use the power cosmic,. I mean honestly it is not even close.

Excellent post

Originally posted by Existere
lol.

this is so dumb.

this pretty much epitomizes the point where discussing comic book characters turns from a debate into an exercise in futility. I'm not the one who brought in appearances as an argument.

Shut your face up, phil.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Oh shitlips, you and your Superman.
http://www.markpedley.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Lady-Gaga-Born-This-Way-Video-22-1024x576.png

I wanted to reize, but then I thought why bother.

.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Because whatever that is is effin' gross.

uhuh It's Lady Gaga.

Bran's idea of a perfect woman.

Originally posted by Mindset
Shut your face up, phil. Most solid post in this thread.

But not as solid as Lady Gaga's penis.

Sups have more speed.

Thanos have everything else, PLUS feats that see him at least keeping up with peeps that should be stupidly faster that Superman. (For exemple, Silver Surfer)

Thanos is in the same ballpark as Odin and Zeus (least powerful then them, IMO, but he's still able to trade blows) and he's leagues above the likes of Sups, Thor, Surfer and the others.

Originally posted by Deadline
The context of the fight was that Thanos could have beaten him without it anyway

Haha what? How on earth is that the context of the fight? Ridiculous.

If that fight had continued, Thanos would have lost. And he knew it.

Originally posted by Deadline
Nah man thats not what happened. Thanos was smiling and stated that he grew tired of fighting, Pip also stated that Thanos was enjoying himself. That doesn't indicate that he couldn't beat him that indicates that he could of beaten him with some difficulty but wanted to end the fight quickly, you're basically misinterpreting what happened.

If he can beat a WM Thor with power gem thats pretty much consistent with him being able to own Thor and Thing. Superman isn't owning Thor and Thing.

Another lol.

How did you come to the conclusion that Thanos could have won with some difficulty?

Like I said, if that fight had gone on, it wasn't going to end well for Thanos.

For the record, Pip also said Thor would give Thanos a run for his money any normal day. Of course, I'm sure you'll ignore that part.

I am so tired of addressing that Marvel Team Up fight.

Originally posted by Existere
No, but the term 'feat war' and the entire idea of comparing Superman to someone who's consistently portrayed as superior to Surfer, Quasar, Thor, etc is a little asinine. Superman is consistently portrayed as superior in combat to Darkseid; and is portrayed as superior to his universe's Quasar/Thor -> Green Lanterns/Wonder Woman, by a rather large margin.

Didn't Pip also say that after a little while, Thor was "hammering Thanos like a nail" when they were fighting? That, and given the fact that Thanos needed to restrain Thor via an energy gun should be sufficient info to infer that Power Gem Thor > Thanos.

An all out Superman can hold his own against Thanos in a physical contest, especially if he pours on the speed but he goes down consistently in an overall battle.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
An all out Superman can hold his own against Thanos in a physical contest, especially if he pours on the speed but he goes down consistently in an overall battle. No

Originally posted by Existere
Except that DC and Marvel don't work to make Thanos and Darkseid as equal in power, and certainly even less so for Green Lantern/Quasar and Wonder Woman/Thor. Want to compare Thanos and Darkseid? Baring Superman, obviously.

You're right, high-end Green Lanterns are vastly more powerful than Quasar.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
No Originally posted by Black bolt z
No Begging to get in the mods' attention, because otherwise you're entirely worthless to the forum as a whole?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
?

You just made a claim that is 100% false. If you'd go into every thread and post "no" to everything you disagree with, that would constitute trolling.