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Who wins?
No prep..




Dr.Strange


Vs


Green Lantern Hal

Glass cannon vs glass cannon

Flip a coin

Strange. Hal is a beast but no pis strange can beat Thor, superman, Ss, and any gl

Originally posted by mighty adam
Strange. Hal is a beast but no pis strange can beat Thor, superman, Ss, and any gl He's not beating Surfer, or Superman. Probably lose to Thor too

Does Strange really only lose to SS, Thor and Supes?

Originally posted by Supermex
Does Strange really only lose to SS, Thor and Supes?

Classic Dr. Strange?

Classic Dr Strange stood up to the IG, beat Shuma Gorath, etc. Oh and he beat Mantis hand to hand, who put down Thanos and Thor with some kinda nerve hold.

He's a mofo

^
Although iirc he only evaded Mantis for a short period.
A serious Classic Strange should dispatch any herald without too much trouble.

Originally posted by ThereIsHope
Classic Dr Strange stood up to the IG, beat Shuma Gorath, etc. Oh and he beat Mantis hand to hand, who put down Thanos and Thor with some kinda nerve hold.

He's a mofo each individual gem, and he got embarrassed. Has Shuma ever won a fight?

Scans of Strange beating Mantis, or Mantis putting down Thanos?

Originally posted by Sundipped
^
Although iirc he only evaded Mantis for a short period.
A serious Classic Strange should dispatch any herald without too much trouble. How many heralds has Strange dispatched without any problems?

Conversely, how many herald level beings have KO'ed Strange?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
each individual gem, and he got embarrassed. Has Shuma ever won a fight?

Scans of Strange beating Mantis, or Mantis putting down Thanos?

How many heralds has Strange dispatched without any problems?

Conversely, how many herald level beings have KO'ed Strange?

This, all of it.

Classic/"Pre-Crisis" Strange isn't beyond the likes of Silver Surfer or Thor, both of whom have crazy high end feats themselves.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
each individual gem, and he got embarrassed. Has Shuma ever won a fight?

Scans of Strange beating Mantis, or Mantis putting down Thanos?

How many heralds has Strange dispatched without any problems?

Conversely, how many herald level beings have KO'ed Strange?

He didn't get embarrassed by the gems, he stalemated every one of em.
I said a SERIOUS Strange shouldn't have TOO MUCH of a problem.

Originally posted by Sundipped
He didn't get embarrassed by the gems, he stalemated every one of em.
I said a SERIOUS Strange shouldn't have TOO MUCH of a problem. Warlock was toying with him, and Strange looked pathetic against them.

That doesn't answer my question

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
This, all of it.

Classic/"Pre-Crisis" Strange isn't beyond the likes of Silver Surfer or Thor, both of whom have crazy high end feats themselves. Going to "no context" route like we're inclined to do with Strange, I'd wager that those two actually have better high end feats as well.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Warlock was toying with him, and Strange looked pathetic against them.

That doesn't answer my question

Toying or not he looked far from pathetic. Don't know how that old rumor even got started.

Don't know but was he serious in the event of anything like that happening? What's stopping him from bfring any herald whenever he sees fit?

Originally posted by Sundipped
Toying or not he looked far from pathetic. Don't know how that old rumor even got started.

Don't know but was he serious in the event of anything like that happening? What's stopping him from bfring any herald whenever he sees fit? Warlock didn't even bother moving before he started using the Power Gem and Strange was desperately using every artifact and talisman in his possession, that he shrunk down before he came there.

The strong majority of them can come back, and that applies to every herald and below who can teleport others as well. Hell, Nightcrawler can theoretically port heralds to different dimensions

He's been knocked out by them when he used the bands of cy. Using deflective shields and spells to stop their power. Trying to stop a rape basically. Etc.
Everytime he's "dispatched a herald without too much trouble" can probably be matched 3 to 1 of the times he's lost to them or lower beings. Probably like 10 to 1 actually...

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Warlock didn't even bother moving before he started using the Power Gem and Strange was desperately using every artifact and talisman in his possession, that he shrunk down before he came there.

The strong majority of them can come back, and that applies to every herald and below who can teleport others as well. Hell, Nightcrawler can theoretically port heralds to different dimensions

He's been knocked out by them when he used the bands of cy. Using deflective shields and spells to stop their power. Trying to stop a rape basically. Etc.
Everytime he's "dispatched a herald without too much trouble" can probably be matched 3 to 1 of the times he's lost to them or lower beings. Probably like 10 to 1 actually...

What does Adam have to move for? It's the gauntlet for Christ's sake.
Everyone knows the context behind that confrontation. You said he looked pathetic but was far from it.

You already lowballed with that IG affair so I expected you to nitpick and point out low showings regardless of context. You and I specifically have bumped heads a couple times in the past on this exact same issue. I don't care nor do I have time to break down every specific instance again.

All I want is for you to answer this question:
Does a SERIOUS Classic Strange not have the tools (non prep) necessary to beat any MU herald more often than not?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Has Shuma ever won a fight?
First the SoK's thing and now this?
http://www.head-cleaners.com/palpatine.jpg
"With each passing moment you make yourself more my servant."

Soon Zopzop will rule this board.........

Originally posted by Sundipped
What does Adam have to move for? It's the gauntlet for Christ's sake.
Everyone knows the context behind that confrontation. You said he looked pathetic but was far from it.

You already lowballed with that IG affair so I expected you to nitpick and point out low showings regardless of context. You and I specifically have bumped heads a couple times in the past on this exact same issue. I don't care nor do I have time to break down every specific instance again.

All I want is for you to answer this question:
Does a SERIOUS Classic Strange not have the tools (non prep) necessary to beat any MU herald more often than not? He didn't put any effort into it.
Yes, he didn't look pathetic scrambling to find spells to counteract Warlock toying with him. In a 'fight' where he had all his artifacts unlike a VS thread. All he ended up doing was reversing what Warlock already did to him. That's not a stalemate.

Lowballed? The thing isn't even relevant to VS threads in the first place. Plus, it's not like I'm the one who said he stood up to the IG (no context needed), and beat Mantis in h2h who nerve pinched Thanos...
What is the context of what I said then? I specifically mentioned him losing to Dr Doom when Dr Doom was making a huge ploy for power, getting knocked out by FrankenSurfer when he had deflective shields up, and him getting KO'ed after using UNBREAKABLE bands. Because apparently that isn't serious enough for you.
If I'm lowballing, then it'd be pretty easy for you to mention the times Dr Strange easily beat herald level beings wouldn't it like your original proposition?

If Dr Strange wasn't so easily knocked out, and his shields prone to fail? He'd still be Surfer level.

Now, I'd love for you to back up your original statement, and maybe provide some examples of Strange easily beating herald level beings. Deflection doesn't answer the question.

^lol i think between the 2 of us over the last couple years we've pretty much at one time or another busted every dr strange myth that's been raised in the forum. yet....i still see the same old stuff, i still see him in matches against guys like odin, stalemating the IG, beating death, matching the LT, beating the inbetweener, etc, etc.... people will believe what they want to believe. strange IS powerful. just be objective regarding where he's placed in relationship to his peers.

as for the fight--not sure how new hal's ring is vs magic, but the old one could be wonky at times. i'd likely go with strange for a slight majority in this one unless new hal has better magical resistance than pre-reboot hal.

I just don't get it

I can't see either side really taking over in a power battle.
Either side can potentially one shot the other if they get through the shields, and I can see either breaking the other's shields.

I really think it's a coin flip. Though all my info is based off pre flash Hal, so meh.

I'd probably go with Strange myself, but I don't think it's an easy fight at all.

But yeah, this idea that Strange is Trans+ is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
He didn't put any effort into it.
Yes, he didn't look pathetic scrambling to find spells to counteract Warlock toying with him. In a 'fight' where he had all his artifacts unlike a VS thread. All he ended up doing was reversing what Warlock already did to him. That's not a stalemate.

What a way to downplay the feat Bran, seriously. :
You started out saying Doc got embarrassed which borderlines on flat out lying. Although Warlock didn't go "all out", what happened on panel suggests Adam was certainly not lackadaisical in his effort.

From the onset, Adam's attitude towards Doc is to "SMASH YOU IF I MUST!"

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b571/superior100/9a486aba-8aa7-41bd-a91e-aa9ed05443f8_zps5d746a42.jpg

He's pretty pissed here after failing to rape Doc with the mind gem. It is now the 3rd gem rendered ineffective.

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b571/superior100/97e7bea4-ae99-4f98-a84f-9125a857ce91_zps888008b2.jpg

Doc earns a momentary stalemate against the power gem. During this period, Doc takes control of the soul gem sand uses it against him. Once again, Adam is not pleased.

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b571/superior100/1d0b1e86-0e23-4a7c-9e5b-0d4573bac86d_zps57ae228e.jpg

^ Narration even states Adam has said no many times this day, reflecting on the number of times the gems were countered. It should be pretty clear now a degree of effort was put forth.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Lowballed ? The thing isn't even relevant to VS threads in the first place. Plus, it's not like I'm the one who said he stood up to the IG (no context needed), and beat Mantis in h2h who nerve pinched Thanos...

He stood up to the IG like what was said by another poster. The context behind that feat should be common knowledge. No one is trying to overhype the feat but you sure did downplay it by saying he was first embarrassed then pathetic in his attempt.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
What is the context of what I said then? I specifically mentioned him losing to Dr Doom when Dr Doom was making a huge ploy for power, getting knocked out by FrankenSurfer when he had deflective shields up, and him getting KO'ed after using UNBREAKABLE bands. Because apparently that isn't serious enough for you.

You got to be joking right? Doc made a fool out of Doom with the Crimson Bands then shielded him against Mephisto. Doc freed Doom's mothers soul from inside the shield, Doom was basically a bystander. You are quick to point out PIS filled ending of that Frankersurfer story but "mysteriously" forget that this WAS the power cosmic from a Surfer duplicate that was repelled/recoiled and shielded against earlier. The bands have restrained Doom, Juggernaut, and Hulk so I don't really see the need to pick on that but you gotta pick on something I suppose. That was the Rings of Randor btw.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
If I'm lowballing, then it'd be pretty easy for you to mention the times Dr Strange easily beat herald level beings wouldn't it like your original proposition?

If Dr Strange wasn't so easily knocked out, and his shields prone to fail? He'd still be Surfer level.

Now, I'd love for you to back up your original statement, and maybe provide some examples of Strange easily beating herald level beings. Deflection doesn't answer the question.

Strange doesn't have notable fights against heralds. That's why I asked you. Instead, you lowball away and choose the worst examples imaginable. Trying real hard to discredit the shields huh? Lol at you saying "shields prone to fail". No, they are "prone" to shield consistently against skyfather level Doramammu.

Anyone can sit and single out low feats to exploit any character. Im not going that route. Its unnecessary. The lows you pointed out (including ones from the past) are really illegitimate considering context. I want to know if you believe a serious Strange has the power to win consistently against any herald.

What we do know is he has enough power to knock Thanos and Surfer on their ass with a gesture.

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b571/superior100/c5235b51-d81d-4d28-ae53-f90edbc783ea_zps6e3fe554.jpg

^ In a room with Drax, Thor, Hulk, and Doom, who is called upon by Adam to break up that skirmish? Firelord couldn't do it but Doc did it easily. Ponder that when you think about my question.

Originally posted by leonidas
^lol i think between the 2 of us over the last couple years we've pretty much at one time or another busted every dr strange myth that's been raised in the forum. yet....i still see the same old stuff,

Rest assured, when I speak on Strange there are no myths involved. As far as this "busted" list goes, I've never been a part of that.

Originally posted by Sundipped
What a way to downplay the feat Bran, seriously. :
You started out saying Doc got embarrassed which borderlines on flat out lying. Although Warlock didn't go "all out", what happened on panel suggests Adam was certainly not lackadaisical in his effort.

From the onset, Adam's attitude towards Doc is to "SMASH YOU IF I MUST!"



He's pretty pissed here after failing to rape Doc with the mind gem. It is now the 3rd gem rendered ineffective.



Doc earns a momentary stalemate against the power gem. During this period, Doc takes control of the soul gem sand uses it against him. Once again, Adam is not pleased.



^ Narration even states Adam has said no many times this day, reflecting on the number of times the gems were countered. It should be pretty clear now a degree of effort was put forth.

Headshots are the way to show how much trouble that battle was.

Embarrassing, pathetic, either word works fine.

What Warlock did to Strange was 'give him a taste of the time gem to convince him of his folly' to show him a glimpse of what would happen if Warlock didn't follow through, sent him really far away from the battlefield, distorted everyone's senses, showed him him still being a doctor, and tried to blast him once that missed.

The only time he actually got mad was with the Power Gem because Strange kept trying to prove him wrong.

All Warlock did was try and get Strange not to fight him. He didn't try and turn his brain off, warp him into paste, teleported him into a sun, actually hit him with a blast, or try to suck his soul. He tried to sway him from not fighting. And Strange needed every artifact to combat that. What is that if not pathetic? Hell, everything he had with every artifact literally bounced off his wrist.

What was so impressive about this fight again? Strange stating 3 times that Warlock was going to kill him?

Originally posted by Sundipped
He stood up to the IG like what was said by another poster. The context behind that feat should be common knowledge. No one is trying to overhype the feat but you sure did downplay it by saying he was first embarrassed then pathetic in his attempt. The IG fight is a non feat.

And he looked bad doing it. That's not downplaying, that's calling it as it is.
Had it not been brought up as the ultimo feat for Strange there'd be no reason to talk about it.


Originally posted by Sundipped
You got to be joking right? Doc made a fool out of Doom with the Crimson Bands then shielded him against Mephisto. Doc freed Doom's mothers soul from inside the shield, Doom was basically a bystander. You are quick to point out PIS filled ending of that Frankersurfer story but "mysteriously" forget that this WAS the power cosmic from a Surfer duplicate that was repelled/recoiled and shielded against earlier. The bands have restrained Doom, Juggernaut, and Hulk so I don't really see the need to pick on that but you gotta pick on something I suppose. That was the Rings of Randor btw. Because that was clearly what I was talking about. When Doom was a complete noob in magic...

But here is Strange's completely not serious Bands of Cy against a more experienced Doom.

Originally posted by Galan007


http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12310873_d1.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12310874_d2.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12310875_d3.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12310877_d4.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12310879_d5.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12310884_d7.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12310886_d8.jpg

Some of the more noteworthy feats:
-Tracking characters across the globe by their auras alone.
-Casually busting through Strange's Crimson Bands of Cyttorak.
-Armor that adapts to attacks used against it.

You'll notice it was a full minute before any character was seen up again.


Yes, and as soon as the weaker FrankenSurfer got serious, he got through the shield.

Hasn't Hulk KO'ed Strange by pounding on his shields, Doom was a complete noob, Strange almost got his back broken against Juggernaut. And I'm 90 percent sure Cyttorak himself banded Juggs.
The bands of cyttorak were a third example, not the same as the FrankenSurfer. I was talking about all the times Strange got KO'ed when he used them. If you want an example, Namor would be the funniest one to use.



Originally posted by Sundipped
Strange doesn't have notable fights against heralds. That's why I asked you. Instead, you lowball away and choose the worst examples imaginable. Trying real hard to discredit the shields huh? Lol at you saying "shields prone to fail". No, they are "prone" to shield consistently against skyfather level Doramammu.

Anyone can sit and single out low feats to exploit any character. Im not going that route. Its unnecessary. The lows you pointed out (including ones from the past) are really illegitimate considering context. I want to know if you believe a serious Strange has the power to win consistently against any herald. Strange has lots of fights against heralds, what are you talking about? Hell, you just talked about 4 fights in your previous paragraph.
If you think he can win easily against herald level beings, then it's not my job to prove it.

The shields have failed more times against low tiers than the times they've succeeded against high tiers. Actually, I think they've only succeeded against Dorm and Meph, and Galactus using a minuscule amount of energy...

If you want to include the past, it'd be best if you could have actually answered anything back then. What was it... "lowball, and not as bad as it is". Well no, his feats of his shield getting shattered aren't bad, but they are when most of them aren't on Hal's league.

I just said Strange can't win consistently against any herald. You deflected against trying to prove he could. And just said I was lowballing.

If you can't prove he can beat them, you probably shouldn't posture like you don't need to.

Originally posted by Sundipped
What we do know is he has enough power to knock Thanos and Surfer on their ass with a gesture.


^ In a room with Drax, Thor, Hulk, and Doom, who is called upon by Adam to break up that skirmish? Firelord couldn't do it but Doc did it easily. Ponder that when you think about my question. And then you realize that Strange did this while Hulk and Thor were holding Thanos, and Firelord was trying to hold Surfer.

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j414/TheHalk/SilverSurfer059-04.jpg

"Perhaps sorcery paired with brute force might accomplish what neither could alone."

Had Thor, Hulk, and Firelord not been there you really think Strange would have been able to... knock the two down... (lol)
Spider-Man did better against a powered up Thanos in the same series.

Hell, look at what Dr Doom does with a gesture (let's ignore all the background people)
http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j414/TheHalk/SilverSurfer059-02.jpg

That's the same series where two Doom servants captured Dr Strange though. Same series as normal Nebula almost knocked out Dr Strange with a punch.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Rest assured, when I speak on Strange there are no myths involved. As far as this "busted" list goes, I've never been a part of that. Then you should kick up that whole proving 'Strange can beat any herald without too much trouble' thing.

Hmmmm first WWE is loving people like Fandango over Jericho, CM Punk over the Undertaker, and zopzop is saying strange who has beat Shuma gorath is nothing but a herald level.

Yup the world is going to hell in a hand basket. Strap yourselves in frolks its going to be a heck of a ride.

Originally posted by ThereIsHope
Hmmmm first WWE is loving people like Fandango over Jericho, CM Punk over the Undertaker, and zopzop is saying strange who has beat Shuma gorath is nothing but a herald level.

Yup the world is going to hell in a hand basket. Strap yourselves in frolks its going to be a heck of a ride.

Barring WWE's creative choices...

You don't think Strange is a herald class being? He's certainly not above them.

Strange still wins this as magic is harder to counter than lantern constructs.

I'd personally go with high herald and trans-low skyfather with prep for strange cause some of his feats are downright ridiculous.

Classic Strange vs PC Hal would be an epic fight.

Current strange and current Hal, Strange wins.

Current Strange and Pre-Flashpoint Hal, Hal wins.

facepalm
This entire post just reaks of desperation, lies and hypocrisy.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Headshots are the way to show how much trouble that battle was.

Embarrassing, pathetic, either word works fine.

What Warlock did to Strange was 'give him a taste of the time gem to convince him of his folly' to show him a glimpse of what would happen if Warlock didn't follow through, sent him really far away from the battlefield, distorted everyone's senses, showed him him still being a doctor, and tried to blast him once that missed.

The only time he actually got mad was with the Power Gem because Strange kept trying to prove him wrong.

All Warlock did was try and get Strange not to fight him. He didn't try and turn his brain off, warp him into paste, teleported him into a sun, actually hit him with a blast, or try to suck his soul. He tried to sway him from not fighting. And Strange needed every artifact to combat that. What is that if not pathetic? Hell, everything he had with every artifact literally bounced off his wrist.

What was so impressive about this fight again? Strange stating 3 times that Warlock was going to kill him?

The IG fight is a non feat.

And he looked bad doing it. That's not downplaying, that's calling it as it is.
Had it not been brought up as the ultimo feat for Strange there'd be no reason to talk about it

Anyone with even limited common sense can see that you are desperately grasping for straws now in attempting to undermine Strange. Even after seeing the anguish on Adams face, you still insist that no effort was put out, Doc got embarrassed, looked pathetic, and the whole ordeal was a non feat. SMDH.. Adam tried every gem and failed point blank period. He flung Strange to the distant future, failed a mindphuck, bfred him to the corner of the 616 universe, warped reality around him (it's debateble if he could even warp a Strange that amped), got a stalemate with the PG, and then had the gem which he is the most intimately tied to and has the most feats with (no one else even comes close as far as feats with the SG) TURNED AGAINST HIM while it was IN HIS POSSESSION. How you see any of this is not impressive is beyond me. And Doc has survived in the core of a sun before so that wouldn't work anyway. Also, Doc only mentioned he would fail in a prolonged battle with the PG once but that doesn't change what happened for the time being on panel.

You also got the motive for Strange confronting Adam wrong. It was not because "he tried to get Strange not to fight him". This is the reason.

http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/9694351_DrStrangeSorcerersupre36-12.jpg

Adam wanted to erase such things as natural competitiveness and selfish ambition which would distort a fundamental balance. Doc challenged him and achieved his goal of making Adam realize his folly.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Because that was clearly what I was talking about. When Doom was a complete noob in magic...

But here is Strange's completely not serious Bands of Cy against a more experienced Doom.

You'll notice it was a full minute before any character was seen up again

Now you resort to flip flopping. First you said he lost to Doom. Now Doom all of a sudden is a noob. Make up your mind. You post scans from Galan showing Strange breaking out of the bands seconds later like that's prof of anything. Doom wasn't a noob. He and Strange we're the last 2 mages left out of many who competed in that contest. And here we have Doom having to amp his armor x 10 just to match Doc's level.

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b571/superior100/2bab1e1e-6e4d-4bad-a1f3-6b3d250e7695_zps01c3b2d3.jpg


Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Yes , and as soon as the weaker FrankenSurfer got serious, he got through the shield

More grasping. The plot had Doc get blasted in the back to play up to the dramatic ending of Frankensurfer murdering that old lady (trying to protect Strange) who cared for him. Now feeling guilt, Frankensurfer commits suicide. It was full of PIS and you know it.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Hasn't Hulk KO'ed Strange by pounding on his shields, Doom was a complete noob, Strange almost got his back broken against Juggernaut. And I'm 90 percent sure Cyttorak himself banded Juggs.
The bands of cyttorak were a third example, not the same as the FrankenSurfer. I was talking about all the times Strange got KO'ed when he used them. If you want an example, Namor would be the funniest one to use

Lies. Hulk never koed Strange. Strange has had a no name shield erected right in Mindless Hulks face and Hulk still couldn't penetrate it. After repeatedly punching it he realized it was futile and leaped off. Cyttorak cast them but Doc maintained the bond under his own strength. And this is what I mean when you nitpick feats. Namor was restrained for a page and a half by bands cast by Doc in astral form. It was explained by Strange himself that he could amplify the bondage by returning to his physical form but Namor broke free first.

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b571/superior100/273db2a1-2dec-4674-a911-b3e0e7ab9a07_zps0898ea5e.jpg

^But you're the one who wants to highlight lack of context when talking about the IG feat. Oh the hypocrisy.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Strange has lots of fights against heralds, what are you talking about? Hell, you just talked about 4 fights in your previous paragraph.
If you think he can win easily against herald level beings, then it's not my job to prove it.

The shields have failed more times against low tiers than the times they've succeeded against high tiers. Actually, I think they've only succeeded against Dorm and Meph, and Galactus using a minuscule amount of energy..

Like I said, those we're bad examples you used. I don't have to prove anything. It's not hard to see that Classic Strange has the power to compete and more often than not best a herald barring PIS/CIS if he's serious. Your cherrypicking feats doesn't change that.

If you think those are the only cases of shield resistance then think again. Or maybe it's just you purposely ignoring his history in favor of lowballing. I'll go with the later. It's obvious you want to see this differently so I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
If you want to include the past, it'd be best if you could have actually answered anything back then. What was it... "lowball, and not as bad as it is". Well no, his feats of his shield getting shattered aren't bad, but they are when most of them aren't on Hal's league.

I just said Strange can't win consistently against any herald. You deflected against trying to prove he could. And just said I was lowballing.

If you can't prove he can beat them, you probably shouldn't posture like you don't need to

All of those past "low showings" had context behind them. Only like 3 out of that list of about 12 could really be applicable under vs forum conditions. That is in no way a bad ratio.

You give Strange no respect at all. Sure there have been feats that have been exaggerated in the past but to say he would have trouble with or can't beat a herald is just rediculous. Contrary to what you said, singling out alleged "low showings" /ignoring context won't help you prove your case.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
And then you realize that Strange did this while Hulk and Thor were holding Thanos, and Firelord was trying to hold Surfer.

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j414/TheHalk/SilverSurfer059-04.jpg

"Perhaps sorcery paired with brute force might accomplish what neither could alone."

Had Thor, Hulk, and Firelord not been there you really think Strange would have been able to... knock the two down... (lol)
Spider-Man did better against a powered up Thanos in the same series.

Misinterpretation of scans. No one is holding Surfer or Thanos when Doc forcibly separated them. Firelord failed by himself. Everyone repeatedly failed before that but it was Strange who succeeded. He even bfred them to allow them to continue their scuffle.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
He'll , look at what Dr Doom does with a gesture (let's ignore all the background people)
http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j414/TheHalk/SilverSurfer059-02.jpg

That's the same series where two Doom servants captured Dr Strange though. Same series as normal Nebula almost knocked out Dr Strange with a punch.

Nice way to flip flop the context of the scans. This is before Doc tried. And this is the scan of Thanos being held by Hulk and Thor while Surfer is held by Drax and Firelord. Doom isn't using much, if any, force to restrain them. And you say "let's ignore all the background people".SMH.

Well almost doesn't count and as far as the Doom/Strange comparison goes this should end it.

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b571/superior100/ab4bc639-bbf8-4987-a84d-6ce9e0ab9ace_zps5f035ba0.jpg

^Doom admits that Doc is more versed in the mystic arts. He even contemplates becoming a disciple. It would be hard for him to win a non prep forum fight against Strange.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Then you should kick up that whole proving 'Strange can beat any herald without too much trouble' thing.

I don't have to prove anything. It's clear you dislike the character and would find a way to lowball whatever I present. Im not going back and forth with you just to validate and point out the context of every feat to you again.

Not saying you do this with every character but only when it comes to Strange for some reason.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Misinterpretation of scans. No one is holding Surfer or Thanos when Doc forcibly separated them. Firelord failed by himself. Everyone repeatedly failed before that but it was Strange who succeeded. He even bfred them to allow them to continue their scuffle.

You're not making any sense. Thanos and Surfer are clearly being restrained by the others.

Strange even outright says that his mystical powers could not accomplish the task alone were it not for brute might.

Too lazy to read the rest of this argument, this just stood out as exceptionally stupid to me.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You're not making any sense. Thanos and Surfer are clearly being restrained by the others.

Strange even outright says that his mystical powers could not accomplish the task alone were it not for brute might.

Too lazy to read the rest of this argument, this just stood out as exceptionally stupid to me.

Ok but his purpose was to have Doom come off as looking superior in some way in terms of restraint. And Strange still expended energy that effected them both at the same time with a gesture, energy radiating out in both directions.

You didn't read the rest of the argument? So you just skipped right to that part?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

What Warlock did to Strange was 'give him a taste of the time gem
to convince him of his folly' to show him a glimpse of what would
happen if Warlock didn't follow through, sent him really far away
from the battlefield, distorted everyone's senses, showed him him
still being a doctor, and tried to blast him once that missed.

The only time he actually got mad was with the Power Gem
because Strange kept trying to prove him wrong.

All Warlock did was try and get Strange not to fight him. He didn't
try and turn his brain off, warp him into paste, teleported him into a
sun, actually hit him with a blast, or try to suck his soul. He tried to
sway him from not fighting. And Strange needed every artifact to
combat that. What is that if not pathetic? Hell, everything he had
with every artifact literally bounced off his wrist.

What was so impressive about this fight again? Strange stating 3
times that Warlock was going to kill him?

The IG fight is a non feat.



I can't believe people still think
Dr Strange "stood up to" the IG,
or even a single Gem.

Sund ... I'm disappointed.

Ol' Doc came Prepped with All his Talisman's combined,
and still was going to be obliterated by the Power Gem alone
after a mere moment.

The Power Gem ... the only Gem Warlock used to hurt Strange.

^
No need for disappointment.
He stalemated the PG although momentarily. For that brief period no one can deny that.
No one is disputing what it took for him to counter the gems. Of course he was armed to the teeth.
Im disappointed in you saying he didn't stand up to the gems when he clearly did.

^^ I wouldn't call that a stalemate simply cause he would've lasted a moment.

A stalemate is an even match to the end.

Doc, was to be destroyed, almost as fast as it started.
Originally posted by Sundipped

Im disappointed in you saying he didn't stand up to the gems when he clearly did.
Warlock wasn't trying to hurt him when he was using the other Gems,
he was only trying to convince Doc to see it his way
without forcibly changing Doc's will.
(which he could've done ... easily, as proven in that very same story)

Originally posted by leonidas
^lol i think between the 2 of us over the last couple years we've pretty much at one time or another busted every dr strange myth that's been raised in the forum. yet....i still see the same old stuff, i still see him in matches against guys like odin, stalemating the IG, beating death, matching the LT, beating the inbetweener, etc, etc.... people will believe what they want to believe. strange IS powerful. just be objective regarding where he's placed in relationship to his peers.
I blame comicvine, and the contagious effects Marvel Mystic fans from that board have had on innocent souls. Have you ever read some of the Cyttorak VS threads on that site? It's a serious detriment to one's sanity, is what it is.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I blame comicvine, and the contagious effects Marvel Mystic fans from that board have had on innocent souls. Have you ever read some of the Cyttorak VS threads on that site? It's a serious detriment to one's sanity, is what it is.

lol

i'm proud to say my nerdness is restricted to this site only. there were a few cyttorak threads on here at one time or another though that had me scratching my head....

Originally posted by leonidas
lol

i'm proud to say my nerdness is restricted to this site only. there were a few cyttorak threads on here at one time or another though that had me scratching my head....
They honestly think on that board that Cyttorak can beat the Living Tribunal in or out of his realm. Guess where they got that idea from? The very same Strange showings(among which the PR Beyonder and the Living Tribunal ones are brought up most often) which you claim you and Bran have debunked on this board.

Hell, from my recent lurkings over there, people think that Mephisto can beat the whole Celestial race within his realm. Context is an alien concept on that site.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
They honestly think on that board that Cyttorak can beat the Living Tribunal in or out of his realm. Guess where they got that idea from? The very same Strange showings(among which the PR Beyonder one is brought up most often) which you claim you and Bran have debunked on this board.

Hell, from my recent lurkings over there, people think that Mephisto can beat the whole Celestial race within his realm. Context is an alien concept on that site.

it seems (from my VERY) brief foray over there that the general populace is very young and not very well versed in the history of the characters. maybe they just lack that historical perspective? meh, this site challenges my sanity often enough that i don't need to go looking for more.

50/50 hals constructs could prove maybe too much for dr strange, but the majority goes to strange IMO

Originally posted by Sundipped

Strange stalemate with the PG,

and then had the gem which he is the most intimately tied to
and has the most feats with (no one else even comes close as far
as feats with the SG) TURNED AGAINST HIM while it was IN HIS
POSSESSION.

How you see any of this is not impressive is beyond me.

Also, Doc only mentioned he would fail in a prolonged battle with
the PG once but that doesn't change what happened for the time being on panel.

Strange never really stalemated the Power Gem my good friend.

A stalemate is a stalemate.

Strange (All Talisman's combined) momentarily survived the PG,
but then as the Future was exposed,
we see he was about to be destroyed in the next moment.

Also, Strange never used or "turned" the Soul Gem against Warlock,
all Doc did was communicate with Warlock through he SG.

-------------------------------------------


Any who ... On Panel proof:

Dr Strange, with All Talisman's combined (I just noticed he brought everything with him)
VS
Warlock/Power Gem:

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15622666_D1.jpg

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15622667_D2.jpg

-------------------------------------------


Then Doc, through the Soul Gem, contacts Warlock and has him see the definite Future,
which is,
Warlock "Destroying Strange--as must certainly happen any moment now"
and how his reality change ends up badly.

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15622668_D3.jpg



Warlock was blinded by his Godhood ... making him commit foolishness:

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15622669_D4.jpg

----------------------------------------------------


But we shouldn't get it twisted,
because Doc always knew he was nothing to the IG:

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/15623454_D5.jpg

----------------------------------------------------


This particular scene demonstrates where how a simple question from Warlock,
turns into a command from God which negates mighty Vishanti member Oshtur's power
as Doc tries to harness it.

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/15623458_D6.jpg

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/15623462_D7.jpg



Like I said earlier, Warlock could've forced Strange to his plan,
but he wanted to convince him instead.
After noticing Doc wasn't budging the nice way,
Warlock got angry, Doc attacked, and the PG came into play.
I explained the rest already.

Originally posted by Sundipped

The exchange was stated to have power that would lay waste to
many a world. These are solar system wrecking blasts. No one
disputes Adam being more powerful. I'm trying to get people to
see the level of power was equaled if only for a short period. If it
wasn't so much of a deal, it wouldn't have warranted mentioning.
If you believe Doc stalemated anything cause he lasted a moment,
a single Panel,
that's on you,
imo, that's Not a stalemate at all.
Originally posted by Sundipped

Communication is using it. Anytime anyone has a weapon and gets
that weapon utilized (no matter the method) against them, then it
is, in a sense, turned on them. The illustration shows the gem
separated from the gauntlet with a beam (tk?) coming from
Strange's forehead then he operates through it. That's
a feat in itself.
You're kidding right?

Suggesting Doc used the Soul Gem against Warlock in any way, shape or form,
is an utter fallacy.

Also,
I disagree with your notion of Doc removing the Soul Gem from Warlock,
when all he did was commune with Warlock via the Soul Gem with Aggy/TP.

Artistic interpretation is simply showing us Doc communicating with Warlock,
through the Soul Gem,
by using Aggy's Eye to TP info,
nothing more.
Originally posted by Sundipped

He made that comment before he prepped. Really the only gem of
concern was the PG. Hence the statement Doc made about all
artifacts arranged to counteract it. If Doc thought he had no shot
whatsoever he would've stayed put.
I disagree.

Doc knew he was nothing to the IG cause he dealt with the IG prior,
vs Thanos, Nebula and Magus.

All the Prep in the world, including his 3 friends, are motes to the IG.
Originally posted by Sundipped

I don't see the significance of Adam forcing Doc to remain. That
was just a standard teloportation spell he negated before the fight
even started. He hadn't even revealed his artifacts yet. Doc can
channel all 3 Vishanti if need be like when he laid Death out. No artifacts needed.
What the heck are his artifacts gonna do against the IG's power?

He can also channel whoever he wants,
and he'll still be curbstomped.

Come on Sun, this is a silly debate.

Also, you do know that Death was manipulating that whole scene right?
How she was trying to seduce Strange to embrace her?
Uhm, Death never wanted to, or was going to kill Strange,
she wanted him to submit with free will.
Originally posted by Sundipped

I'm fairly certain the Gauntlet can negate an amped Strange with
the gems used in unison,
but you can't base your assertion of him being able to do so off
only a basic spell. It's possible Strange could've offered a degree
of resistance towards that effect while amped.
I'm fairly certain just the Power Gem alone (as depicted On Panel)
is more than enough to obliterate Strange (fully prepped) after a moment.

My friend, Strange (prep and all) is nothing to the Power Gem,
and even less than that, next to the IG.

Originally posted by Mr Master
If you believe Doc stalemated anything cause he lasted a moment,
a single Panel,
that's on you,
imo, that's Not a stalemate at all

I'm not going to argue over the semantics of words. Did you not read the definition of the word equilibrium, the same exact word used on panel? It's plain as day what's being implied here, regardless of whatever time period.

Originally posted by Mr Master
You're kidding right?

Suggesting Doc used the Soul Gem against Warlock in any ways, shape or form,
is an utter fallacy.

Also,
I disagree with your notion of Doc removing the Soul Gem from Warlock,
when all he did was commune with Warlock via the Soul Gem with Aggy/TP.

Artistic interpretation is simply showing us Doc communicating with Warlock,
through the Soul Gem,
by using Aggy's Eye to TP info,
nothing more.

He reached Adams innermost being using the SG. That was supposed to be Adams weapon to use on Strange because it was on his person but Doc extracted the gem and hit Adam with a revelation by reaching him through his soul first. That's one of the purposes the gem can be used for. The gem was used against him. I don't know how to make this any simpler.

Now tell me how did the gem get out of the gauntlet and out in the open? I'll tell you why. Because Steve took it out. If you look closely you can see the red streaks on the backside of the gem stretched to indicate rapid movement towards Strange. The artist's depiction + the fact that Strange at the time was operating under the combined power of all of his artifacts strongly supports that Doc removed it.

Originally posted by Mr Master
disagree.

Doc knew he was nothing to the IG cause he dealt with the IG prior,
vs Thanos, Nebula and Magus.

All the Prep in the world, including his 3 friends, are motes to the IG

He knew he had enough power to at least counteract effects of the gems with prep. That was enough to convince him that he had some sort of a shot. He didn't go with the intention of thinking he could outright defeat him.


Originally posted by Mr Master
What the heck are his artifacts gonna do against the IG's power?

He can also channel whoever he wants,
and he'll still be curbstomped.

Come on Sun, this is a silly debate.

Also , you do know that Death was manipulating that whole scene right?
How she was trying to seduce Strange to embrace her?
Uhm, Death never wanted to, or was going to kill Strange,
she wanted him to submit with free will.

You tried to use Adam negating that simple spell as grounds that it would work to the same effect on a all the way amped Strange like what was seen vs the PG. For the record, I did state that the Gauntlet would prove more powerful in that event but consider if Adam only used the reality gem to render Strange stationary while Doc was fully amped. Would it be so set in stone then? The orb of Aggy alone was able to pierce the veil of distorted reality . Now if he added the PG to enhance the potency in conjunction with the RG, or just the PG solely, then I have no doubt Adam would've overridden the amp easily. Just throwing a hypothetical scenario out there.

I know the context of that scene. She was also using that as an opportunity to take Galactus as well. However that doesn't diminish the significance of that blast in any way shape or form. Especially since other beings have attacked her to no affect. Strange being one of them on a separate occasion with him channeling only Oshtur for a mystic bolt.

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b571/superior100/32402c06-3005-4722-8056-a201d570adc8_zps4c38bf1f.jpg

Originally posted by Mr Master
I'm fairly certain just the Power Gem alone (as depicted On Panel)
is more than enough to obliterate Strange (fully prepped) after a moment.

My friend, Strange (prep and all) is nothing to the Power Gem,
and even less than that, next to the IG.

You act as if somebody said Doc had a chance for victory against one of the top powers in the MU or something. Everyone and their mom knows he would fail, even against the PG. That much was stated on panel and everyone is already in accordance with it. Don't know why you feel the need to reiterate that.

Originally posted by Sundipped

I'm not going to argue over the semantics of words. Did you
not read the definition of the word equilibrium, the same exact
word used on panel? It's plain as day what's being implied here,
regardless of whatever time period.
I see.

So there's a 12 round fight,
and both fighters are equal for 20 seconds of the 1st round,
then 10 seconds later one fighter kills the other with a punch,
... this should signify a stalemate.

NIMO ... but I'll respect yours.
Originally posted by Sundipped

He reached Adams innermost being using the SG. That was
supposed to be Adams weapon to use on Strange because it was
on his person but Doc extracted the gem and hit Adam with a
revelation by reaching him through his soul first. That's one of the
purposes the gem can be used for. The gem was used against
him. I don't know how to make this any simpler.

Now tell me how did the gem get out of the gauntlet and out in the
open? I'll tell you why. Because Steve took it out. If you look
closely you can see the red streaks on the backside of the gem
stretched to indicate rapid movement towards Strange. The artist's
depiction + the fact that Strange at the time was operating under
the combined power of all of his artifacts strongly supports that
Doc removed it.
I completely disagree.

Doc never removed anything,
and Doc never used anything against Warlock except his own toys.

lol at the thought that Strange can just remove Gems from an IG wielder.
Originally posted by Sundipped

He knew he had enough power to at least counteract effects of
the gems with prep. That was enough to convince him that he had
some sort of a shot. He didn't go with the intention of thinking he
could outright defeat him.
He didn't counteract anything though
cause Warlock wasn't trying to hurt him with any of the Gems
save for the PG at the end.

He lasted a moment fully prepped against the PG.

I don't see how he knew anything my friend.
Originally posted by Sundipped

You tried to use Adam negating that simple spell as grounds
that it would work to the same effect on a all the way amped
Strange like what was seen vs the PG. For the record, I did state
that the Gauntlet would prove more powerful in that event but
consider if Adam only used the reality gem to render Strange
stationary while Doc was fully amped. Would it be so set in stone
then? The orb of Aggy alone was able to pierce the veil of
distorted reality . Now if he added the PG to enhance the potency
in conjunction with the RG, or just the PG solely, then I have no
doubt Adam would've overridden the amp easily. Just throwing a
hypothetical scenario out there.
I have to disagree.

PG/Thor one shotted Doc Strange, Warlock and Surfer simultaneously, and they attacked Thor first.
Grant it, Doc wasn't 'fully prepped' although he knew what he was up against,
but Thor wasn't even tapping the Gem consciously. (no IG)
(heck, Eternity itself said Thor (in time) would threaten himself & Infinity)

SG/Warlock destroyed an Entire Reality/Universe. (no IG)

TG/Rune froze the Entire Time-Stream where only the LT was unfazed. (no IG)


*** My friend, Doc stands no chance of any kind against any single Gem.

Originally posted by Sundipped

I know the context of that scene. She was also using that as an
opportunity to take Galactus as well. However that doesn't
diminish the significance of that blast in any way shape or form.
Especially since other beings have attacked her to no affect.
Strange being one of them on a separate occasion with him
channeling only Oshtur for a mystic bolt.
Nice. I'll return with the rest of the story (and scans)
to prove that whole silliness with Strange was in Death's plan.
Originally posted by Sundipped

You act as if somebody said Doc had a chance for victory against
one of the top powers in the MU or something.

Everyone and their mom knows he would fail, even against the PG.

That much was stated on panel and everyone is already in accordance with it.
Well I appreciate you highlighting that cause that's the truth.
It just didn't seem that way which is why I joined this debate.
I thought you felt differently because one: You continue to prolong this discussion,
and two ... these were some of the reasons I had to join a Cosmic discourse:
Originally posted by ThereIsHope

Classic Dr Strange stood up to the IG
Originally posted by Sundipped

^
Originally posted by Branlor Swift

each individual gem, and he got embarrassed.
Originally posted by Sundipped

He didn't get embarrassed by the gems,

he stalemated every one of em.

In the event that innocent onlookers may consider this as accurate info,
I felt I had to step in and clarify the facts, which Bran had already done so more or less.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I see.

So there's a 12 round fight,
and both fighters are equal for 20 seconds of the 1st round,
then 10 seconds later one fighter kills the other with a punch,
... this should signify a stalemate.

NIMO ... but I'll respect yours

This is getting redundant. My response to this was:

Originally posted by Sundipped
The exchange was stated to have power that would lay waste to many a world. These are solar system wrecking blasts. No one disputes Adam being more powerful. I'm trying to get people to see the level of power was equaled if only for a short period.

Don't get so caught up on the word stalemate. I was trying to show you the wording that's actually on panel, but you're having a tough time adjusting.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I completely disagree.

Doc never removed anything,
and Doc never used anything against Warlock except his own toys.

lol at the thought that Strange can just remove Gems from an IG wielder.

Aren't you the one always reminding others to not ignore on panel evidence? I guess preachers don't have to practice huh?

Originally posted by Mr Master
He didn't counteract anything though
cause Warlock wasn't trying to hurt him with any of the Gems
save for the PG at the end.

He lasted a moment fully prepped against the PG.

I don't see how he knew anything my friend.

What he didn't know was if Adam was going to go all out or not before he left his house.

There's also this

Main Entry: coun·ter·act Pronunciation: \ˌkau n-tər-ˈakt\Function: transitive verb Date: 1655 :

to make ineffective or restrain or neutralize the usually ill effects of by means of an opposite force, action, or influence

It seems you're having a tough time with definitions in this debate.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I have to disagree.

PG/Thor one shotted Doc Strange, Warlock and Surfer simultaneously, and they attacked Thor first.
Grant it, Doc wasn't 'fully prepped' although he knew what he was up against,
but Thor wasn't even tapping the Gem consciously. (no IG)
(heck, Eternity itself said Thor (in time) would threaten himself & Infinity)

SG/Warlock destroyed an Entire Reality/Universe. (no IG)

TG/Rune froze the Entire Time-Stream where only the LT was unfazed. (no IG)


*** My friend, Doc stands no chance of any kind against any single Gem

What's underlined makes the rest of your post irrelevant because we were only talking about resisting teleportation. Also there's this

Originally posted by Sundipped
Although Warlock didn't go "all out",

^I said that a loooong time ago.


Originally posted by Mr Master
Nice . I'll return with the rest of the story (and scans)
to prove that whole silliness with Strange was in Death's plan

If it doesn't have anything to do with her being depowered then I don't see how it's relevant to the discussion.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Well I appreciate you highlighting that cause that's the truth.
It just didn't seem that way which is why I joined this debate.
I thought you felt differently because one: You continue to prolong this discussion,
and two ... these were some of the reasons I had to join a Cosmic discourse:


In the event that innocent onlookers may consider this as accurate info,
I felt I had to step in and clarify the facts, which Bran had already done so more or less.

I was done with this discussion until you quoted me. Every thing has already been explained. You had a big problem with the terminology used (stalemate). Everything else I explained about the fight is accurate. And Bran, (who by the way is not in this discussion) only lowballed IMO, so stating to me that he "cleared" any facts would be asinine in my view. You're right tho, the onlookers can now decide for themselves.

Originally posted by Sundipped

This is getting redundant. My response to this was:

Don't get so caught up on the word stalemate.
I was trying to show you the wording that's actually on panel,

but you're having a tough time adjusting.
Gibberish.
Originally posted by Sundipped

Aren't you the one always reminding others to not ignore on panel evidence?

I guess preachers don't have to practice huh?
More gibberish.

So in your mind,
Doctor Strange can simply yank Gems from an IG wielder.

Come on homie,
can't you tell that the artist was conveying the idea of communication,
which is why we see the Gem superimposed.

Still can't get over that idea of Doc removing Gems from the IG. lol
Originally posted by Sundipped

What he didn't know was if Adam was going to go all out or
not before he left his house.

There's also this

It seems you're having a tough time with definitions in this debate.
Giber, Giba, Gaber.
Originally posted by Sundipped

What's underlined makes the rest of your post irrelevant because
we were only talking about resisting teleportation. Also there's this

^I said that a loooong time ago.
Finally, something of consequence somewhat.

Fine, fair enuff. It would still make no difference the scenario imo.
Originally posted by Sundipped

If it doesn't have anything to do with her being depowered
then I don't see how it's relevant to the discussion.
Whoopi, something else to reply too.

I'm just gonna show ya how Doc never hurt/stalemated/defeated
or anything else,
Miss Death didn't will herself with purpose.

As for relevance, you brought it up.
Originally posted by Sundipped

I was done with this discussion until you quoted me. Every
thing has already been explained. You had a big problem with the
terminology used (stalemate).

Everything else I explained about the fight is accurate.

And Bran, (who by the way is not in this
discussion) only lowballed IMO, so stating to me that he "cleared"
any facts would be asinine in my view. You're right tho, the
onlookers can now decide for themselves.
I disagree your rendition of the event was accurate.

I had a problem with you saying Doc stood up to the IG
and Doc stalemate the Gems individually,
which is not only asinine but false ... no offense.

btw, I was completely respectful with you,
but since you decided to get frustrated and nasty in this last post,
I responded with "Gibberish" (in one form or another) accordingly.

I was tempted to bite back hard as I've done in the past,
but that's not me no mo.

So keep it on topic and respectful ...
You're a solid debater, there's no need for snide remarks,
or useless attempts at belittling one's level of comprehension.

^
Ok so it might have came off a bit snide.
Safe to say we have an obvious difference in interpretations, but if there were no differences on this forum, then, this forum might not even exist.
*extends hand for shake*

Oh yeah, I'm still a fan of the I.G. too.
That's one thing I really don't want to get misconstrued despite my support for Strange in this thread.

^

Although our opinions may differ on this one,
I just noticed something interesting.

Setting aside the 'stalemate' circle discussion we ended up in,
the other debate we engaged in was involving the Soul Gem,
did Doc extract it or not.

Well, ... that diamond 'rubiesk' object that pops up in-front of Doc,
is Not the Soul Gem.

(full page)



(excerpt)

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15644725_Doc2.jpg

It's one of Doc's Talisman's (left hand upper corner)
which he evidently used to contact Warlock via the Soul Gem.

You confused me and had even Me thinking that was the Soul Gem superimposed.

So, as a true debater,
you'll at-least concede to that particular part of our discourse.

Originally posted by Sundipped
^
Although iirc he only evaded Mantis for a short period.
A serious Classic Strange should dispatch any herald without too much trouble.

Which doesn't make any sense considering he thinks at a human rate and Surfer should be able to blitz one shot Strange anywhere on the planet before Strange even begins to think of a spell

Originally posted by Mr Master
^

Although our opinions may differ on this one,
I just noticed something interesting.

Setting aside the 'stalemate' circle discussion we ended up in,
the other debate we engaged in was involving the Soul Gem,
did Doc extract it or not.

Well, ... that diamond 'rubiesk' object that pops up in-front of Doc,
is Not the Soul Gem.

(full page)



(excerpt)

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15644725_Doc2.jpg

It's one of Doc's Talisman's (left hand upper corner)
which he evidently used to contact Warlock via the Soul Gem.

You confused me and had even Me thinking that was the Soul Gem superimposed.

So, as a true debater,
you'll at-least concede to that particular part of our discourse.


Good observation.
What had me fooled was art on the backside of the gem which had me thinking the SG was pulled out but it was really energy being projected through the artifact.

It shows that this particular artifact can be used to "manipulate" (I'll leave out "use against" the soul gem when it's in someone elses possession, even on the Gauntlet.

Also now I remember, (but didn't take time to stop and think at the time), that all gems are oval in shape. At least that's always the depiction I've always seen on panel.

My debating skills must be really proficient in order to initially confuse you of all people (unintentionally) huh? I even fooled myself.

Good catch tho.

Originally posted by Raisen
Which doesn't make any sense considering he thinks at a human rate and Surfer should be able to blitz one shot Strange anywhere on the planet before Strange even begins to think of a spell

Except we have to use Surfer "in character" on this forum unless stated otherwise. He rarely starts fights off like that so it's not his standard portrayal.

Originally posted by Sundipped

Good observation.
What had me fooled was art on the backside of the gem which had me thinking the SG was pulled out but it was really energy being projected through the artifact.

Also now I remember, (but didn't take time to stop and think at the time), that all gems are oval in shape. At least that's always the depiction I've always seen on panel.

My debating skills must be really proficient in order to initially confuse you of all people (unintentionally) huh? I even fooled myself.

Good catch tho.

Originally posted by Sundipped

It shows that this particular artifact can be used to "manipulate" (I'll
leave out "use against" the soul gem when it's in someone elses
possession, even on the Gauntlet.
... "manipulate" ... as in to transfer info? Sure.

Other than that ... nathan. Therefore it's meaningless.

Strange dominates

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
They honestly think on that board that Cyttorak can beat the Living Tribunal in or out of his realm. Guess where they got that idea from? The very same Strange showings(among which the PR Beyonder and the Living Tribunal ones are brought up most often) which you claim you and Bran have debunked on this board.

Hell, from my recent lurkings over there, people think that Mephisto can beat the whole Celestial race within his realm. Context is an alien concept on that site.

That's nothing. I have seen people claim that Midnighter can beat up Spider-Man and Wolverine at the same time.

Originally posted by Mr Master


... "manipulate" ... as in to transfer info? Sure.

Other than that ... nathan. Therefore it's meaningless.

I'll just say that a gauntlet wielder should have no business having ANY gem being used by the opposition for ANY purpose. Especially a case like this which had the IG wielder stunned for 6 panels.

I'll let that slide.......for now. shifty