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How does the Hulk fares against the one being ln all the cosmos that Superman himself is afraid to go one on one with?

Hulk one-shots J'onn

Savage Hulk?

Originally posted by Thinkerer
Savage Hulk? Yes

The Savage Hulk that just finished stomping around in Asgard, and fought Odin Force Thor and a freaking Celestial would kill Martian Manhunter, and easily.

Originally posted by carver9
The Savage Hulk that just finished stomping around in Asgard, and fought Odin Force Thor and a freaking Celestial would kill Martian Manhunter, and easily.

Hulk

Originally posted by lawest9
How does the Hulk fares against the one being ln all the cosmos that Superman himself is afraid to go one on one with? lol @ this description

In terms of strength, durability, and regeneration I'd say they're peers. But that's only a fraction of Martian Manhunter's arsenal of powers. Flight, speed, telekinesis, and telepathy gives him a clear edge here. Telepathy is up in the air, since sometimes it works to subdue the Hulk and other times it doesn't, but the other advantages are a bit more straightforward.

They're not really peers.

And the big picture is that Hulk only does one thing but is (mostly) elite at it. Whereas Martian Manhunter does many things but is more or less the love child of a Swiss Army Knife and a wet noodle.

So even if they were peers...

8/10 Hulk. 2/10 to Jonn for the rare combo of TP/intangibility/flight/energy powers shenanigans.

That's not what I said. I said they were peers as far as strength, durability, and regeneration were concerned.

Beyond that Martian Manhunter has the clear advantage.

Yes, I disagreed with you.

Are you implying that the Hulk has superior strength, durability, or regeneration?

I would also place Manhunter above Marvel telepaths like Professor X.

Originally posted by Astner
Are you implying that the Hulk has superior strength, durability, or regeneration? I think Hulk's upper limits of strength are superior, and I think his stamina and combat healing are far, far superior.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I would also place Manhunter above Marvel telepaths like Professor X. I don't think I would.

MMH stomps, so many ways for him to win

like turning hulk's mind into a toilet

The problem is that, despite his crazy versatile powerset, MMH has one of the worst track records in comics.

He always gets his ass beat, doesn't matter which book he appears in.

So yeah, Hulk destroys him - with a ridiculous ease. As would Superman, by the way.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I would also place Manhunter above Marvel telepaths like Professor X.

Good joke.

Stop cosplaying as Phil

Originally posted by Smurph

I don't think I would.

I would, J'onn can match pretty much anything Charles has done despite appearing in far fewer comics. On average J'onn does have superior feats.

Hulk also has no counter to phasing or invisibility. I don't think J'onn would stay phased entire time but that does offset any strength advantage hulk has.

MMH has can tp at planck time, hulk is slow as shit

https://imgur.com/a/FDM9YyY

Originally posted by abhilegend
I would, J'onn can match pretty much anything Charles has done despite appearing in far fewer comics. On average J'onn does have superior feats.

That's a load of bullshit and you know it well, Abhi.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hulk also has no counter to phasing or invisibility. I don't think J'onn would stay phased entire time but that does offset any strength advantage hulk has.

That is the main problem with J'onn - he should be nigh unbeatable, given those (and other) superpowers - yet he does get wtfpwned all the damn time, 24/7, by beings who don't have anything at their disposal that would deal with intangibility or invisibility.

J'onn is Reed Richards of DC, only much dumber. But their combat performance and social awkwardness are similar.

Originally posted by MrMind
MMH has can tp at planck time, hulk is slow as shit

https://imgur.com/a/FDM9YyY

Telepathy is always fast, that's its nature, not a speed feat for Manhunter. It's useless against the Hulk, anyway.

And it didn't save MMH from street-levelers or a mob of peasants with torches and pitchforks.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I would, J'onn can match pretty much anything Charles has done despite appearing in far fewer comics. On average J'onn does have superior feats. That's some interesting spin. Xavier must have, what, thousands(?) of appearances just in his capacity as headmaster of a school but I guess that now lowers his forum stock.

Martian Manhunter is not the character to back if you want to start arguing averages, tho

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hulk also has no counter to phasing or invisibility. I don't think J'onn would stay phased entire time but that does offset any strength advantage hulk has. Until Hulk's gamma aura sets the battlefield on fire ermmnone

Superman stomps both at the same time.

Just ask comicvine

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
That's a load of bullshit and you know it well, Abhi.

Nope, bring any feat for Xavier, I can bring at least one matching feat for J'onn.

That's not true. He does have his jobbing moments but mostly he does good against bricks like hulk.

That's true.

Originally posted by Smurph
That's some interesting spin. Xavier must have, what, thousands(?) of appearances just in his capacity as headmaster of a school but I guess that now lowers his forum stock.

Yes, that's how averages work.

Let's go for pure feats then.

Has it ever done so?

Nah, high level telepathy seems to always couple with increased speed of thought.

Nate has that planck time feat.

Xavier's TP instantly reached the Shi' Ar galaxy from Earth.

God Cable was performing complex, instantaneous matter manip during the fight with Surfer.

Originally posted by Smurph
Nah, high level telepathy seems to always couple with increased speed of thought.

Nate has that planck time feat.

Xavier's TP instantly reached the Shi' Ar galaxy from Earth.

God Cable was performing complex, instantaneous matter manip during the fight with Surfer.

and do you think hulk can react to nate? cause that's literally the same thing mmh did

Originally posted by Smurph
Nah, high level telepathy seems to always couple with increased speed of thought.

Nate has that planck time feat.

Xavier's TP instantly reached the Shi' Ar galaxy from Earth.

God Cable was performing complex, instantaneous matter manip during the fight with Surfer.
J'onn didn't just entered Planck time as Nate did. He reacted in planck speed and gathered thoughts of everyone on Earth before Perpetua could reach him.

Xavier wishes he was that fast.

Originally posted by Smurph
Martian Manhunter is not the character to back if you want to start arguing averages, tho

Back in the day, we had over 100 pages of Character Ownage thread devoted wholly to Manhunter's epic fail scenes.

Originally posted by Smurph
I think Hulk's upper limits of strength are superior, and I think his stamina and combat healing are far, far superior.
I don't think I would.

Then you have no idea of MM's top quantifiable strength feats.
Why even argue the thread?
Just ask what are his top quantifiable strength feats then make a decision.

MM is a lot faster (speed killsl) and can go intangible (untouchable) and is a high end telepath. That's an unbeatable combination for Hulk. Also he can become plastic man and become elastic to any physical attack. Aquaman tried to stab him with Trident once and it went through him in plastic man fashion.

How do you mislook that?

This is normal Hulk (not WWH or WBH).

In your opinion the stronger always win. Such a shallow argument.
MM has many ways to maintain 0 damage in this fight.
1. Use superior speed and flight to avoid attacks
2. Use intangibility
3. Become plastic man
4. Can shrink in size and become the size of a blood vessel

MM has many ways to win
1. TP and intangibility
2. Speed with Blunt force (he has shattered a moon alone before and moved a jupiter sized ship away from Earth that was initially hurting towards Earth at 36,000mph with the help of Superman)
3. Heat vision
4. Stabbing weapons

What are MMH's top 3-5 best tp feats in the past ten years?

Originally posted by h1a8
Then you have no idea of MM's top quantifiable strength feats.
Why even argue the thread?
Just ask what are his top quantifiable strength feats then make a decision.

MM is a lot faster (speed killsl) and can go intangible (untouchable) and is a high end telepath. That's an unbeatable combination for Hulk. Also he can become plastic man and become elastic to any physical attack. Aquaman tried to stab him with Trident once and it went through him in plastic man fashion.

How do you mislook that?

This is normal Hulk (not WWH or WBH).

In your opinion the stronger always win. Such a shallow argument.
MM has many ways to maintain 0 damage in this fight.
1. Use superior speed and flight to avoid attacks
2. Use intangibility
3. Become plastic man
4. Can shrink in size and become the size of a blood vessel

MM has many ways to win
1. TP and intangibility
2. Speed with Blunt force (he has shattered a moon alone before and moved a jupiter sized ship away from Earth that was initially hurting towards Earth at 36,000mph with the help of Superman)
3. Heat vision
4. Stabbing weapons Honestly, I can't tell if you can't read or just that you won't read.

Either way, I guess, trolling is trolling.

Originally posted by Smurph
Honestly, I can't tell if you can't read or just that you won't read.

Either way, I guess, trolling is trolling.

I can read just fine. Apparently you are the one trolling. I'll prove it.
Before I do, know that is is about Savage Hulk.

Originally posted by Astner
In terms of strength, durability, and regeneration I'd say they're peers. But that's only a fraction of Martian Manhunter's arsenal of powers. Flight, speed, telekinesis, and telepathy gives him a clear edge here. Telepathy is up in the air, since sometimes it works to subdue the Hulk and other times it doesn't, but the other advantages are a bit more straightforward.
You replied with
Originally posted by Smurph
They're not really peers.

And the big picture is that Hulk only does one thing but is (mostly) elite at it. Whereas Martian Manhunter does many things but is more or less the love child of a Swiss Army Knife and a wet noodle.

So even if they were peers...

8/10 Hulk. 2/10 to Jonn for the rare combo of TP/intangibility/flight/energy powers shenanigans.

Astner was saying they were peers in strength, durability, and regeneration. But with other powers MM is superior.

Your reply states that they are not peers with ALL powers considered (which is trolling).
Even the argument that they are not peers in strength and durability is borderline trolling. What quantifiable feat by Savage Hulk matches or exceeds stopping a Jupiter size object from moving 36,000mph and forcing it in the opposite direction? Or even destroying a moon?

Did you know about those feats?

And when under Full Capacity, how does Hulk even touch someone insanely faster, has intangibility, can become plastic man, can shrink, can become invisible, can use high end TP, etc.

If this were h2h then MM would still stomp.
With all other powers this fight borders on spite.
MM has to fight dumb and forget his powers (especially speed) for Hulk to have a chance.

And you call me trolling?

Originally posted by h1a8
I can read just fine. Apparently you are the one trolling. I'll prove it.
Before I do, know that is is about Savage Hulk.


You replied with


Astner was saying they were peers in strength, durability, and regeneration. But with other powers MM is superior.

Your reply states that they are not peers with ALL powers considered (which is trolling).
Even the argument that they are not peers in strength and durability is borderline trolling. What quantifiable feat by Savage Hulk matches or exceeds stopping a Jupiter size object from moving 36,000mph and forcing it in the opposite direction? Or even destroying a moon?

Did you know about those feats?

And when under Full Capacity, how does Hulk even touch someone insanely faster, has intangibility, can become plastic man, can shrink, can become invisible, can use high end TP, etc.

If this were h2h then MM would still stomp.
With all other powers this fight borders on spite.
MM has to fight dumb and forget his powers (especially speed) for Hulk to have a chance.

And you call me trolling? Take a breath. Touch some grass. We can do this in baby steps.... unless you're trolling, in which case the conversation will quickly derail.

Those strength feats that you keep mentioning for Martian Manhunter - he didn't accomplish either by himself, correct?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Are you retarded?

maybe, maybe not, maybe fuk yourself

love the departed

Originally posted by abhilegend
J'onn didn't just entered Planck time as Nate did. He reacted in planck speed and gathered thoughts of everyone on Earth before Perpetua could reach him.

Xavier wishes he was that fast.

Do you have the scans for that?

No, he doesn't, he's just creatively interpreting the scan that Mind posted.

Don't call him out like that, Golgo. You're supposed to be on his side.

it's not just tp, though tp would be the easiest route

mmh is by himself very strong, he helped superman moved the earth, and also stop the brainiac ship that was much much larger than earth moving at 36000 mph. not saying he wins a punch out but he can hang.

once he figures out hulk is just like any grounded brick he faced before, he'll simply phase out hulk's brain

Originally posted by ODG
What are MMH's top 3-5 best tp feats in the past ten years?

owning despero, making mxy speak his name backwards etc

Originally posted by Smurph
No, he doesn't, he's just creatively interpreting the scan that Mind posted.

Don't call him out like that, Golgo. You're supposed to be on his side.
Of course I do. Here's J'onn first connecting to the entire Earth before Perpetua could reach him physically.

https://i.ibb.co/DRVWD4s/6skwod-Ozex-YIXBqgpoj2-Iz3pt-Wmwh-UNs7-Raq30dp-B2-H4pk-MHx-Bfau4-L-pnw45q-Lj-K-WC0-Uue-A3-Ox-BUl-EHA.jpg https://i.ibb.co/PwMF5qL/dgs9-r-Yl-NWQw-Gq32-WO9t-A5w8d-Cdkvupy-Cco-Z1t4-Vwrl-KM7-FCOc-H4u-Jgk-Jci-B8xch-JWl-3lb-6-MOx-Gwrm-V.jpg https://i.ibb.co/3BzBwZd/Gh-XJa-Inb-U-TXn-Hz-Yaj394-ZYDue794-Tyb-ZXmvsva-GOm-FQmu-VMv-Re-CBx-Qd4-Dv-SO6-T-Cj-Pfkn-SRCPKLE8-iu.jpg

Later he does it even faster, in planck time.

https://i.ibb.co/X59kdgy/P8-AOGvf-F1-Fg-Um-COzz-Rh-UQlmk-Qye-YX-Sx-JRDb-Rgnavpx9bi9ui-TYgv0-CDQWy-Ykc-Hq-Ep3eu-RWe1-U-GYCczhh.jpg

I'm still waiting for those so superior Xavier feats.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Of course I do. Here's J'onn first connecting to the entire Earth before Perpetua could reach him physically.

https://i.ibb.co/DRVWD4s/6skwod-Ozex-YIXBqgpoj2-Iz3pt-Wmwh-UNs7-Raq30dp-B2-H4pk-MHx-Bfau4-L-pnw45q-Lj-K-WC0-Uue-A3-Ox-BUl-EHA.jpg https://i.ibb.co/PwMF5qL/dgs9-r-Yl-NWQw-Gq32-WO9t-A5w8d-Cdkvupy-Cco-Z1t4-Vwrl-KM7-FCOc-H4u-Jgk-Jci-B8xch-JWl-3lb-6-MOx-Gwrm-V.jpg https://i.ibb.co/3BzBwZd/Gh-XJa-Inb-U-TXn-Hz-Yaj394-ZYDue794-Tyb-ZXmvsva-GOm-FQmu-VMv-Re-CBx-Qd4-Dv-SO6-T-Cj-Pfkn-SRCPKLE8-iu.jpg

Later he does it even faster, in planck time.

https://i.ibb.co/X59kdgy/P8-AOGvf-F1-Fg-Um-COzz-Rh-UQlmk-Qye-YX-Sx-JRDb-Rgnavpx9bi9ui-TYgv0-CDQWy-Ykc-Hq-Ep3eu-RWe1-U-GYCczhh.jpg

I'm still waiting for those so superior Xavier feats. lol nooo, you said: "J'onn didn't just entered Planck time as Nate did. He reacted in planck speed and gathered thoughts of everyone on Earth before Perpetua could reach him."

but all that the scans show is that J'onn made his thoughts move faster than Perpetua's. Literally, his thoughts enter planck time, to escape to a moment between moments where Perpetua's mind (ie "her mind reaches for mine" can't catch his.

So... it's exactly like the Nate feat, except worse, because only J'onn's TP speeds up, while his actual body stays stationary and gets punched in the face.

Originally posted by Smurph
lol nooo, you said: "J'onn didn't just entered Planck time as Nate did. He reacted in planck speed and gathered thoughts of everyone on Earth before Perpetua could reach him."

Well yes, he did it second time.

You forget the first time he was reacting physically as well, gathering thoughts of everyone before Perpetua reached him.

Yeah, Nate one where regular humans could watch him and Ares (lol) fight.

J'onn out reacting Perpetua while Nate Grey got his shit pushed in by Ares, marvel telepaths really are the winners lmao.

I'm still waiting for those superior feats for Xavier.

Sure, Abhi

Originally posted by abhilegend
I'm still waiting for those superior feats for Xavier. lol keep waiting I guess. Xavier isn't in this thread.

Originally posted by Smurph
lol keep waiting I guess. Xavier isn't in this thread.
I can bump a thread for you

Reason why I brought Xavier up in the first place, was because I can see MMH succeeding where he fails (or at least, replicating where Xavier succeeded).

Lol at people debating powerset here, but doesn't do the same with Surfer vs Superman or even Superman vs Martian Manhunter. Hulk is more powerful and is portrayed as being a FAR more serious threat. Wonder how Martian Manhunter vs Darkseid would go 🤔

Originally posted by carver9
Lol at people debating powerset here, but doesn't do the same with Surfer vs Superman or even Superman vs Martian Manhunter. Hulk is more powerful and is portrayed as being a FAR more serious threat. Wonder how Martian Manhunter vs Darkseid would go 🤔

Because MMH is faster than Surfer in reactions

Originally posted by carver9
Wonder how Martian Manhunter vs Darkseid would go 🤔

Same as MMH vs. DD Rex, I imagine.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Same as MMH vs. DD Rex, I imagine.

They actually fought several times, iirc. In DC1M he's also meant to be the final opponent for DS.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol at people debating powerset here, but doesn't do the same with Surfer vs Superman or even Superman vs Martian Manhunter. Hulk is more powerful and is portrayed as being a FAR more serious threat. Wonder how Martian Manhunter vs Darkseid would go 🤔
Because hulk is no Superman.

No. He is better.

And you don't exactly need a Superman to mop the floor with J'onn - you of all people know that too well.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because hulk is no Superman.

And Superman is no Surfer, lol.

Originally posted by carver9
And Superman is no Surfer, lol.

Surfer isn't as fast as Superman.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Yeah, Nate one where regular humans could watch him and Ares (lol) fight.

lol remember Superman saying that he needs to speed up to try to keep up with DoS Doomsday?

...while normal humans were hovering around Doomsday, targeting and shooting him?

mmm

I'm not sure Doomsday and Superman's fight is similar to Nate's

As the comic did state they're out of normal time/outside of time. Ares also entered the plane where Nate was hiding amongst time.
Their fight also seems much more like an abstract one. As when Nate was thrown by Ares to Karla's history for example.

It's more like a time manipulation than normal speedsters-style fight I would say

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
I'm not sure Doomsday and Superman's fight is similar to Nate's

As the comic did state they're out of normal time/outside of time. Ares also entered the plane where Nate was hiding amongst time.
Their fight also seems much more like an abstract one. As when Nate was thrown by Ares to Karla's history for example.

It's more like a time manipulation than normal speedsters-style fight I would say Agreed, using telepathy to enter planck time isn't a reaction feat.

Cough cough

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
No. He is better.

And you don't exactly need a Superman to mop the floor with J'onn - you of all people know that too well.
True but hulk isn't fit for the task. Originally posted by carver9
And Superman is no Surfer, lol.
Originally posted by Smurph
lol remember Superman saying that he needs to speed up to try to keep up with DoS Doomsday?

...while normal humans were hovering around Doomsday, targeting and shooting him?

mmm
Are you equating planck time to Superman/Doomsday fight?

Originally posted by Smurph
Agreed, using telepathy to enter planck time isn't a reaction feat.

Cough cough
Yeah, though I did interpret MMH's feat a bit differently from Nate's. MMH's feat is more like he casts his thoughts into Planck time while Nate is using TP to enter a plane that exists between moments/a time manipulation

But the main point I agree. I don't think either feat is a reaction speed feat.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998

But the main point I agree. I don't think either feat is a reaction speed feat. Qwerty gets it

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Surfer isn't as fast as Superman.

Surfer is far more versatile than Superman. CIS on, Surfer should stomp, right?

Originally posted by abhilegend
True but hulk isn't fit for the task.

Are you equating planck time to Superman/Doomsday fight?



Normal humans were blasting Doomsday while Superman was upping his speed. How is that possible?

Originally posted by carver9
Surfer is far more versatile than Superman. CIS on, Surfer should stomp, right?
Iron man is more versatile, Flash still stomps his ass I a fight. Surfer is more versatile but Superman's speed makes it irrelevant. Originally posted by carver9
Normal humans were blasting Doomsday while Superman was upping his speed. How is that possible?
They were moving in planck time as Smurph said.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Iron man is more versatile, Flash still stomps his ass I a fight. Surfer is more versatile but Superman's speed makes it irrelevant.
They were moving in planck time as Smurph said.

You're saying exactly what I want you to say. Keep going, minion.

Originally posted by carver9
You're saying exactly what I want you to say. Keep going, minion.

Originally posted by carver9
Surfer is far more versatile than Superman. CIS on, Surfer should stomp, right?

Nope, because he's still too slow. Remember mod ruling on characters using their speed to avoid attacks?

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Yeah, though I did interpret MMH's feat a bit differently from Nate's. MMH's feat is more like he casts his thoughts into Planck time while Nate is using TP to enter a plane that exists between moments/a time manipulation

But the main point I agree. I don't think either feat is a reaction speed feat.

Moreover, I thought it was all a ruse by Perpetua to give the people of Earth hope or some such, to make them tastier or something.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Nope, because he's still too slow. Remember mod ruling on characters using their speed to avoid attacks?

So in character, what is Superman going to do to Surfer?

Just in case you don't know what CIS mean. Superman is most common with this, Thor is as well...

Character Induced Stupidity, or CIS, on the other hand, refers to any natural mental limitations that characters impose upon themselves and reduce their ability to use their own skills and powers effectively. Unlike PIS, CIS does not occur because the plot requires it, but because the character is genuinely that dumb. Events of CIS are not exempt from debates.

Originally posted by carver9
Just in case you don't know what CIS mean. Superman is most common with this, Thor is as well...

Character Induced Stupidity, or CIS, on the other hand, refers to any natural mental limitations that characters impose upon themselves and reduce their ability to use their own skills and powers effectively. Unlike PIS, CIS does not occur because the plot requires it, but because the character is genuinely that dumb. Events of CIS are not exempt from debates. So Superman is so stupid he will purposely get hit (while seeing attacks in slow motion) so that he can lose.
Superman is gifted in IQ. He has avoid attacks using speed many many times over. He's genuinely not dumb.

Originally posted by carver9
Just in case you don't know what CIS mean. Superman is most common with this, Thor is as well...

Character Induced Stupidity, or CIS, on the other hand, refers to any natural mental limitations that characters impose upon themselves and reduce their ability to use their own skills and powers effectively. Unlike PIS, CIS does not occur because the plot requires it, but because the character is genuinely that dumb. Events of CIS are not exempt from debates.

Lmao. Lol. I'm crying with laughter here.

Since you're using forum rulings:



Literally for Superman. Source: https://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t577880.html ( check Surfer's section whilst you're at it).

Also:



Source: https://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t461496.html

"Even if it's not light speed combat". The person who wrote that even know Superman doesn't fight at those speeds, something Surfer board can easily react at. So, how is a CIS on Superman beating Surfer? Flash has far more of a chance at combating at light speed.

Originally posted by carver9
"Even if it's not light speed combat". The person who wrote that even know Superman doesn't fight at those speeds, something Surfer board can easily react at. So, how is a CIS on Superman beating Surfer? Flash has far more of a chance at combating at light speed.

Lmao the quote is lightspeed BLITZING, you can't even read properly. Where does it say lightspeed COMBAT??

He's not using lightspeed OFFENSIVELY at the start of the fight, but he's using lightspeed DEFENSIVELY. Neither Surfer nor his board would touch him, if he doesn't want to get hit. A slower character isn't physically hitting /affecting a faster character without PIS.

Unless of course, Surfer can fight in nanoseconds? :P

GG.

And I like how you still cling to 'chances'. They either have it or don't, mod ruling was clear.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lmao the quote is lightspeed BLITZING, you can't even read properly. Where does it say lightspeed COMBAT??

He's not using lightspeed OFFENSIVELY at the start of the fight, but he's using lightspeed DEFENSIVELY. Neither Surfer nor his board would touch him, if he doesn't want to get hit. A slower character isn't physically hitting /affecting a faster character without PIS.

Unless of course, Surfer can fight in nanoseconds? :P

GG.

And I like how you still cling to 'chances'. They either have it or don't, mod ruling was clear.

What does this say?

https://ibb.co/ZXgHc89

Superman can't fight at nano second speeds, let's not even talk about Surfer hitting him. Back in topic CIS on, Surfer turns his costume into kryptonite.

Originally posted by carver9
What does this say?

https://ibb.co/ZXgHc89

Superman can't fight at nano second speeds, let's not even talk about Surfer hitting him. Back in topic CIS on, Surfer turns his costume into kryptonite. Originally posted by carver9
"Even if it's not light speed combat". The person who wrote that even know Superman doesn't fight at those speeds, something Surfer board can easily react at. So, how is a CIS on Superman beating Surfer? Flash has far more of a chance at combating at light speed.

YOU'RE the one saying lightspeed COMBAT, lmao. The ruling is about BLITZING. BLITZING is NOT DEFENSIVE. Are you drunk, or an idiot?

Do I seriously need to break this down line by line for you??

Originally posted by carver9
"Even if it's not light speed combat". The person who wrote that even know Superman doesn't fight at those speeds, something Surfer board can easily react at. So, how is a CIS on Superman beating Surfer? Flash has far more of a chance at combating at light speed.
Originally posted by carver9
What does this say?

https://ibb.co/ZXgHc89

Superman can't fight at nano second speeds, let's not even talk about Surfer hitting him. Back in topic CIS on, Surfer turns his costume into kryptonite.
I'm not sure that is "even if" means


https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/even-if

IOW, the sentence just says whether or not you agree that Superman possesses the abilities to lightspeed blitzing, Superman will use his speed.
It doesn't say Superman can't blitz at lightspeed, just it won't change the fact Superman still will use his speed in fight

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He's not using lightspeed OFFENSIVELY at the start of the fight, but he's using lightspeed DEFENSIVELY. Neither Surfer nor his board would touch him, if he doesn't want to get hit. A slower character isn't physically hitting /affecting a faster character without PIS. barker Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Reason why I brought Xavier up in the first place, was because I can see MMH succeeding where he fails (or at least, replicating where Xavier succeeded). Doomsday is similar to Hulk. And J'onn's tp has never done anything historically (or just recently) but backfire on him???

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
YOU'RE the one saying lightspeed COMBAT, lmao. The ruling is about BLITZING. BLITZING is NOT DEFENSIVE. Are you drunk, or an idiot?

Do I seriously need to break this down line by line for you??

I literally said that what you posted said "even if Superman isn't fighting at light speed" and I mention that; saying that the sentence even reference Superman not combating at light speed, which you agree with, and you call me the idiot. Lol... you seem like the idiot here.

Anyways, he would 100% need to go that fast to blitz Surfer, and fight out of character which goes completely against CIS. Surfer turns his costume into adamantium.

Originally posted by MrMind
once he figures out hulk is just like any grounded brick he faced before, he'll simply phase out hulk's brain Has MMH ever done this on-panel? I know Vision and Kitty Pryde have threatened to do so, but when has J'onn done so on-panel, let alone threatened to do so on-panel?

Originally posted by ODG
Has MMH ever done this on-panel? I know Vision and Kitty Pryde have threatened to do so, but when has J'onn done so on-panel, let alone threatened to do so on-panel?

On panel doesn't count.

Originally posted by carver9
I literally said that what you posted said "even if Superman isn't fighting at light speed" and I mention that; saying that the sentence even reference Superman not combating at light speed, which you agree with, and you call me the idiot. Lol... you seem like the idiot here.

Anyways, he would 100% need to go that fast to blitz Surfer, and fight out of character which goes completely against CIS. Surfer turns his costume into adamantium. He doesn't need to go that fast to blitz Surfer. What's Surfer reaction feats?

Superman's perceptions are always on (he can't turn them off) just like his durability. That means he would perceive attacks much slower than a human would.
Either he chooses to get hit by incoming slow attack
Or
He dodges it as to not lose the fight.

In character he would take a punch or so to gauge the power of someone.

Originally posted by Smurph
Take a breath. Touch some grass. We can do this in baby steps.... unless you're trolling, in which case the conversation will quickly derail.

Those strength feats that you keep mentioning for Martian Manhunter - he didn't accomplish either by himself, correct?

The moon feat he did.
The ship feat no, him and Superman did it. Yes a shared feat. But it's assumed MM did a significant portion as the negative of that would contradict the plot.
Those feats make MM (along with feats of overpowering Superman at times) make him a peer to Savage Hulk.
Now WBH and such is a different story though.

Originally posted by abhilegend
True but hulk isn't fit for the task.

Why not?

Doomsday Rex was pathetic, as you Superman fans keep reminding the whole forum and he still raped J'onn.

Hulk can knock J'onn out with his pinkie.

Originally posted by h1a8
The moon feat he did.
The ship feat no, him and Superman did it. Yes a shared feat. But it's assumed MM did a significant portion as the negative of that would contradict the plot.
Those feats make MM (along with feats of overpowering Superman at times) make him a peer to Savage Hulk.
Now WBH and such is a different story though.

He's not a peer to Savage Hulk.

Originally posted by carver9
On panel doesn't count. WTF are you talking about? Unless you're trying to be sardonic? In which case, it's wasted on me.

Was just playing. 🤷🏾‍♂️

Originally posted by ODG
Has MMH ever done this on-panel? I know Vision and Kitty Pryde have threatened to do so, but when has J'onn done so on-panel, let alone threatened to do so on-panel?
J'onn has killed white martians using phasing.

https://imgur.io/a/9LTgZoo

Originally posted by carver9
I literally said that what you posted said "even if Superman isn't fighting at light speed" and I mention that; saying that the sentence even reference Superman not combating at light speed, which you agree with, and you call me the idiot. Lol... you seem like the idiot here.

Anyways, he would 100% need to go that fast to blitz Surfer, and fight out of character which goes completely against CIS. Surfer turns his costume into adamantium.

Lol, I do not agree that the ruling says fighting at lightspeed. I am saying it says he won't blitz at lightspeed.

Blitzing and combat is different, stupid Carver.

Originally posted by h1a8
The moon feat he did. So you're saying that Batman didn't help blow up that moon?

Originally posted by h1a8
The ship feat no, him and Superman did it. Yes a shared feat. But it's assumed MM did a significant portion as the negative of that would contradict the plot.
Cool.

So when you said "What quantifiable feat by Savage Hulk matches or exceeds stopping a Jupiter size object from moving 36,000mph..."

You actually meant "What quantifiable feat by Savage Hulk matches or exceeds a Jupiter size object from moving 36,000mph..."

...right?

Originally posted by Smurph
So you're saying that Batman didn't help blow up that moon?

Cool.

So when you said "What quantifiable feat by Savage Hulk matches or exceeds stopping a Jupiter size object from moving 36,000mph..."

You actually meant "What quantifiable feat by Savage Hulk matches or exceeds a Jupiter size object from moving 36,000mph..."

...right?

Yes exactly. Assume Jon did >30% of the feat.

Originally posted by h1a8
Yes exactly. Assume Jon did >30% of the feat. Uh, no, I will not assume that.

Could Savage Hulk help Superman push back Brainiac's ship? Sure, why not. I mean, with a legion flight ring I guess Lois Lane could have helped

Let's go back to the moon thing for a second though. You called that a solo feat?

Batman absolutely helped blow the Moon up.

Originally posted by ODG
Has MMH ever done this on-panel? I know Vision and Kitty Pryde have threatened to do so, but when has J'onn done so on-panel, let alone threatened to do so on-panel?

next time say please

https://imgur.com/a/OZi3kfi

Originally posted by Smurph
Uh, no, I will not assume that.

Could Savage Hulk help Superman push back Brainiac's ship? Sure, why not. I mean, with a legion flight ring I guess Lois Lane could have helped

Let's go back to the moon thing for a second though. You called that a solo feat?

it's so funny cause shared feat can't be used here. i remember arguing with people on superman stopping the brainiac ship and pulling earth feat and people were the same way. oh he has help from mmh so it doesn't count. we don't know how much he pushed blah blah blah unquantifiable feat blah blah blah

the ship is 10 times bigger than earth coming at 36000 mph, even if mmh is only contributing 5 percent of the strength it's still impressive as hell.

Originally posted by MrMind
it's so funny cause shared feat can't be used here. i remember arguing with people on superman stopping the brainiac ship and pulling earth feat and people were the same way. oh he has help from mmh so it doesn't count. we don't know how much he pushed blah blah blah unquantifiable feat blah blah blah

the ship is 10 times bigger than earth coming at 36000 mph, even if mmh is only contributing 5 percent of the strength it's still impressive as hell. Nah, that's not what I'm saying. Sure, the overall feat is hugely impressive. Sure, MMH contributed to it.

So the feat counts. But h1 demanded a "quantifiable feat by Savage Hulk matches or exceeds stopping a Jupiter size object from moving 36,000mph and forcing it in the opposite direction"

Which conveniently ignores the Superman factor in that feat. Pretty glaring omission lol. And h1 is glossing over that because he wants to claim the feat is quantifiable.

The feat counts, sure. Easily J'onn's greatest strength feat. But "quantifiable"? Hardly.

And fwiw, writing off the feat for Superman is much less reasonable because we know he's stronger than J'onn. You could cut the feat in half and call it a floor for Superman's contribution, but you can't do that for J'onn.

Originally posted by Smurph
Nah, that's not what I'm saying. Sure, the overall feat is hugely impressive. Sure, MMH contributed to it.

So the feat counts. But h1 demanded a "quantifiable feat by Savage Hulk matches or exceeds stopping a Jupiter size object from moving 36,000mph and forcing it in the opposite direction"

Which conveniently ignores the Superman factor in that feat. Pretty glaring omission lol. And h1 is glossing over that because he wants to claim the feat is quantifiable.

The feat counts, sure. Easily J'onn's greatest strength feat. But "quantifiable"? Hardly.

And fwiw, writing off the feat for Superman is much less reasonable because we know he's stronger than J'onn. You could cut the feat in half and call it a floor for Superman's contribution, but you can't do that for J'onn.
Even if it is 1% and that's just taking the piss, it is still better than pretty much anything Savage hulk has done.

Not quantifiable doesn't mean not impressive or unusable.

Originally posted by Smurph
Uh, no, I will not assume that.

Could Savage Hulk help Superman push back Brainiac's ship? Sure, why not. I mean, with a legion flight ring I guess Lois Lane could have helped

Let's go back to the moon thing for a second though. You called that a solo feat?
Does Savage Hulk have feats of at least 10% the force needed to push a jupiter sized object away already traveling at 36,000 mph?
If so then he can also help Superman.

My point is the feat makes him a peer to Savage Hulk (along with manhandling Superman, punching blood from beings who physically gave Superman problems etc)

I concede the point if we are talking about WBH or a much more powerful Hulk than Savage.

As far as the moon feat, the nuclear bombs helped I guess. Although nuclear bombs should do almost nothing to the moon, I'll concede that point.

Basically showing to be a physical peer to Superman along with the spaceship feat makes MM a peer to Savage Hulk in the strength department. Note: I'm not arguing he's stronger but a peer.

Originally posted by ODG
WTF are you talking about? Unless you're trying to be sardonic? In which case, it's wasted on me.

Carver was telling you how DC fanboys "debate" on this board. Took you a while.

Odg is well-known for hating Hulk.

Only when Hulk is facing Thor in a versus thread.

Otherwise ODG's Hulk can eat Galactus and Imperiex at the same time.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Carver was telling you how DC fanboys "debate" on this board. Took you a while.

marvel pot calling dc kettle black?

Originally posted by Smurph
Nah, that's not what I'm saying. Sure, the overall feat is hugely impressive. Sure, MMH contributed to it.

So the feat counts. But h1 demanded a "quantifiable feat by Savage Hulk matches or exceeds stopping a Jupiter size object from moving 36,000mph and forcing it in the opposite direction"

Which conveniently ignores the Superman factor in that feat. Pretty glaring omission lol. And h1 is glossing over that because he wants to claim the feat is quantifiable.

The feat counts, sure. Easily J'onn's greatest strength feat. But "quantifiable"? Hardly.

And fwiw, writing off the feat for Superman is much less reasonable because we know he's stronger than J'onn. You could cut the feat in half and call it a floor for Superman's contribution, but you can't do that for J'onn.

during pre52 mmh was portrayed as the same league as superman in strength multiple time. the fact that at his best he was hurting the likes of sbp and despero etc, he said he was stronger than superman when he was fighting sinestro. now obvisouly that could be him boasting. but it's clear you can see from a lot of writers they see mmh was in the league of post crisis superman when it come to strength.

sure superman going all out is stronger, and nobody is gonna say otherwise. but their difference in strength is not a wide gap.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Carver was telling you how DC fanboys "debate" on this board. Took you a while.
On this site, marvel fanboys just created new abilities out of thin air for Surfer, Thor and Dr Strange for a decade.

They literally edited scans to present it lol.

Originally posted by abhilegend
On this site, marvel fanboys just created new abilities out of thin air for Surfer, Thor and Dr Strange for a decade.

They literally edited scans to present it lol.

you gotta respect the dedication

Originally posted by MrMind
during pre52 mmh was portrayed as the same league as superman in strength multiple time. the fact that at his best he was hurting the likes of sbp and despero etc, he said he was stronger than superman when he was fighting sinestro. now obvisouly that could be him boasting. but it's clear you can see from a lot of writers they see mmh was in the league of post crisis superman when it come to strength.

sure superman going all out is stronger, and nobody is gonna say otherwise. but their difference in strength is not a wide gap. nah, shit like this is how Superman power creep becomes this weird sort of trickle down economics across DC. Give Superman all the feats and then wax lyrical about Superman being afraid to fight MMH. But don't mind the fact that MMH, a character who has been around since the golden age, has a terrible track record and very little to independently back those statements up.

You even do it in your post - you start talking about how MMH was portrayed as being in the same ballpark as pre52 Superman, and you end by saying "their difference in strength is not a wide gap", in present tense. But... there's a gap between pre52 Superman and current Superman... so how are we still saying that MMH is his near equal?

Originally posted by Smurph
nah, shit like this is how Superman power creep becomes this weird sort of trickle down economics across DC. Give Superman all the feats and then wax lyrical about Superman being afraid to fight MMH. But don't mind the fact that MMH, a character who has been around since the golden age, has a terrible track record and very little to independently back those statements up.

You even do it in your post - you start talking about how MMH was portrayed as being in the same ballpark as pre52 Superman, and you end by saying "their difference in strength is not a wide gap", in present tense. But... there's a gap between pre52 Superman and current Superman... so how are we still saying that MMH is his near equal?

I don't know why mmh has such a bad reputation here when everywhere else like cv and cbr view him as a powerhouse

he did well against, hal jordan, guy gardner, supergirl, superman etc he knocked out despero's teeth, ko'd captain marvel

for all his low showing stinkers he had high showings to even it out just like every other characters.

when he unlocked his genetic memory he took down the entire justice league in fernus.

Originally posted by MrMind
I don't know why mmh has such a bad reputation here when everywhere else like cv and cbr view him as a powerhouse

he did well against, hal jordan, guy gardner, supergirl, superman etc he knocked out despero's teeth, ko'd captain marvel

for all his low showing stinkers he had high showings to even it out just like every other characters.

when he unlocked his genetic memory he took down the entire justice league in fernus.
Supergirl manhandles him in her own series iirc
And from what I recently read, Superman beats him easily in Mongul's first appearances

Originally posted by carver9
On panel doesn't count.

hey derrick like any hulk thread you are the one who never posted any scans to back up your claim, not the other side.

the audacity of you making this claim

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Supergirl manhandles him in her own series iirc
And from what I recently read, Superman beats him easily in Mongul's first appearances

yeah that was n52 no? his feats fluctuate a lot in n52 era

for stinkers against superboy and supergirl he also had good showings against mon-el and authority

people just love to focus on the low showings

if we play the same game hulk has some of the lowest showings of them all

there just no way someone who can turn invisible, shapeshift, phase, regenerate, precog, someone who possess heat vision, tp, tk, astral projection, martian vision losing to hulk

Originally posted by MrMind
yeah that was n52 no? his feats fluctuate a lot in n52 era

for stinkers against superboy and supergirl he also had good showings against mon-el and authority

people just love to focus on the low showings

if we play the same game hulk has some of the lowest showings of them all
Pre-Flashpoint, when Supergirl was split into two personae by black kryptonite
https://ibb.co/y4XqqNf
https://ibb.co/NLMQP5j
https://ibb.co/990MgN3

yeah but dark supergirl was hella powerful

we are talking about savage hulk here

Originally posted by MrMind
next time say please

https://imgur.com/a/OZi3kfi Is that supposed to be phasing? It looks more like he just pulled his brain out with strength given the exterior damage to the Amazo head?

Originally posted by ODG
Is that supposed to be phasing? It looks more like he just pulled his brain out with strength given the exterior damage to the Amazo head?

is that what you think?

how about this one where mmh phases through 2 white martians heart, is that just mmh punching two holes with his arms?

https://imgur.io/a/9LTgZoo

Originally posted by ODG
Is that supposed to be phasing? It looks more like he just pulled his brain out with strength given the exterior damage to the Amazo head?

The page shiteater posted makes it clear those Amazos are comparable with AI-controlled fodder Iron Man suits - and that's being generous.

Originally posted by ODG
Has MMH ever done this on-panel? I know Vision and Kitty Pryde have threatened to do so, but when has J'onn done so on-panel, let alone threatened to do so on-panel? Maybe Mind thinks that MMH's phasing works like Kitty. But Jonn can't phase other objects.

Could he phase into Hulk? Sure. But then he needs to materialize if he wants to start trying to rip out inner organs.

I don't like J'onn's odds if he tries to materialize inside Hulk.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
The page shiteater posted makes it clear those Amazos are comparable with AI-controlled fodder Iron Man suits - and that's being generous.

does it matter? the autistic marvel fanboys ask for proofs of mmh using phasing here are the proofs. now run along if you have nothing to contribute

That's not a proof of anything. Looks like he used brute force to do it.

And do I need to spell out for you what the scan says?

Even Hawkgirl is doing fine there

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
That's not a proof of anything. Looks like he used brute force to do it.

And do I need to spell out for you what the scan says?

Even Hawkgirl is doing fine there

go choke on carver's chocolate balls

https://imgur.io/a/9LTgZoo

So it took him this long to replicate a basic feat that Vision has been doing for 50 years?

Cute. Totally useless, but cute.

Originally posted by MrMind
is that what you think?

how about this one where mmh phases through 2 white martians heart, is that just mmh punching two holes with his arms?

https://imgur.io/a/9LTgZoo Take it easy, mang. I take responsibility for my own reputation but I wasn't trying to be snide.

I also am not sure that scan even proves MMH can pluck out Hulk's heart or brain. Originally posted by Smurph
Maybe Mind thinks that MMH's phasing works like Kitty. But Jonn can't phase other objects.

Could he phase into Hulk? Sure. But then he needs to materialize if he wants to start trying to rip out inner organs.

I don't like J'onn's odds if he tries to materialize inside Hulk.

https://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Durability/MindlessHulkPhasing01300.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Durability/MindlessHulkPhasing.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Durability/SavageHulkPhasing01v27.jpg

Originally posted by ODG
Take it easy, mang. I take responsibility for my own reputation but I wasn't trying to be snide.

I also am not sure that scan even proves MMH can pluck out Hulk's heart or brain.



sorry bud

stilt been trying to elevate my blood pressure lately
my anger wasn't directed towards you.

You need some tough love every once in a while if we want you to stop hallucinating and break through your denial.

Originally posted by MrMind
sorry bud

stilt been trying to elevate my blood pressure lately
my anger wasn't directed towards you. Guy like me, no need to apologize given my reputation. Just wanted to make it clear that I wasn't trying to attack you.

Having said that, the scans you posted don't seem to support your initial claim.

Get a room, you two vin