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Which is more durable, Juggs's skin or a slab of adamantium the same thickness as Cap's shield (1/8 inch I believe)? And why?

Against strikes (like Mjolnir strikes)
Against cuts (like Logan's claws)
Against energy (like prolonged lightning strikes)

Probably equals tbh.

Going with Adamantium.

Isn't Adamantium susceptible to being melted at very high temperatures?

I'd think Juggernaut's skin is more durable against extreme temperatures than that...

So edge to Juggs in that regard. Overall, against physical cuts and blunt force trauma, I'd say they should be about equal... but against heat, energy/magnetism, etc., I'd say Juggs comes out on top, so overall Juggernaut is more durable.

And also, is it actually his skin, or is it a magical aura around his skin, like Superman's bioaura, that gives him the durability?

really hard to say because most of juggernaut's best durability feats took place when he either had a forcefield in place or was significantly amped.

Originally posted by Glorificus
Isn't Adamantium susceptible to being melted at very high temperatures?

I'd think Juggernaut's skin is more durable against extreme temperatures than that...

So edge to Juggs in that regard. Overall, against physical cuts and blunt force trauma, I'd say they should be about equal... but against heat, energy/magnetism, etc., I'd say Juggs comes out on top, so overall Juggernaut is more durable.

And also, is it actually his skin, or is it a magical aura around his skin, like Superman's bioaura, that gives him the durability? I appreciate this reasoning.

I'd say, Juggernaut's skin can and has been pierced by what can't pierce adamantium.

But I've always thought that Juggernaut's durability is primarily defined by unstoppability. Like, he could be stabbed in his face by an adamantium claw. But if there were an adamantium door, Juggernaut could blow through it.

We're still pretending Juggernaut is really invulnerable, huh?

Originally posted by Glorificus
Isn't Adamantium susceptible to being melted at very high temperatures?
No. Once set, it can't be melted back down.

Juggernaut has always had limits and felt pain. And he's explained before that he heals through magic. So adamantium is more durable but the amount of difference depends on the point in time with Juggernaut. How much support he has from Cyttorak etc

https://i.ibb.co/p4HwVcP/RCO002-1710351061.jpg

Damnit was going to post that. I hate you stilt.

Originally posted by Smurph
No. Once set, it can't be melted back down.

Juggernaut has always had limits and felt pain. And he's explained before that he heals through magic. So adamantium is more durable but the amount of difference depends on the point in time with Juggernaut. How much support he has from Cyttorak etc
Juggernaut has never been even close to adamantium level durability.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
https://i.ibb.co/p4HwVcP/RCO002-1710351061.jpg

A good example actually of how online comic sites and image hosting sites are stopping some of the questions we used to have. In the past, even with our limited membership, this would have had pages of back and forth and we'd never have a real resolution.


Now, in combination with comics actually answering said question, anyone of us who reads comics can find it, post it, and answer definitely.

Although Juggernaut in his heyday was more impressive than Juggernaut now. But I agree that he's never had adamantium level durability.

I mean, Shatterstar cut him.

Originally posted by Smurph


Although Juggernaut in his heyday was more impressive than Juggernaut now. But I agree that he's never had adamantium level durability.

I mean, Shatterstar cut him.

Forget about Shatterstar.

Feral cut Cain's forearm in the same comic.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
https://i.ibb.co/p4HwVcP/RCO002-1710351061.jpg

Was he at full power here?

Yes

Isn't he supposed to have an uber forcefield that surrounds him?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Forget about Shatterstar.

Feral cut Cain's forearm in the same comic.

How about Swarm and Toad???

https://i.postimg.cc/MfQCVyLz/RCO008-1609947621.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/ph4Nm0q0/RCO009-1609947621.jpg

Goddamn.

When is the last time Juggernaut(standard levels; no explicit amps) got a legitimately good showing? Because it seems like Marvel has been going out of their way to shit on him for YEARS now.

^ To be fair, when's the last time Juggernaut was even at his classic standard levels? Around when he fought Thor during Aaron's run?

Originally posted by carver9
Was he at full power here? No. No, he was not.

Originally posted by ODG
No. No, he was not.


https://i.postimg.cc/Nj6yK5qh/f86f73f88b803152fcc014760238af0e34320ad5.jpg

The armor seems more powerful but he broke his connection to Cyttorak.

What are you trying to prove, Abhi?

Also curious why Abhi's scan spells it Armour instead of Armor. I didn't think the comics switched between American and British spelling.

Back on task though, I didn't realize Juggernaut doesn't answer to Cyttorak these days. Sorta begs the question though, whether there's a division between his Cyttorak-backed feats and his newer Crimson Gem-backed stuff. No reason to assume that durability is consistent. If it were any major character, we would draw the distinction.

Originally posted by Smurph
The armor seems more powerful but he broke his connection to Cyttorak.

What are you trying to prove, Abhi?
Yeah I'll post the scan later, it's Juggernaut #3.

Cain gets to do what he wants now, basically, without having to answer to Cyttorak. So writers get to use him as a hero and he doesn't have to cause destruction.

When questions like this arise, I usually default to 'what do the comics show?'

And the fact that normal bees (which is what Swarm uses) can pierce his skin, makes me think he's not at full power.

https://i.postimg.cc/McqkxhXx/11-7.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/68dsk9WY/15-6.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/hXxgKLr8/16-10.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/zPcbF3r/RCO017-1462743134.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/0FMgZJV/feral.png

Originally posted by Smurph
The armor seems more powerful but he broke his connection to Cyttorak.

What are you trying to prove, Abhi?
Juggernaut is actually more powerful than before, he's not less powerful.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Juggernaut is actually more powerful than before, he's not less powerful. That's a sentence about his armour

This is a thread about his skin

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

When questions like this arise, I usually default to 'what do the comics show?'

And the fact that normal bees (which is what Swarm uses) can pierce his skin, makes me think he's not at full power.

Originally posted by Smurph
That's a sentence about his armour

This is a thread about his skin
Eh? His armor is more powerful than ever but his skin is softer without any reason?

His latest armor was made in the Forge of Cyttorak and seems more powerful and allows him to break his connection with Cyttorak.

That's not proof that Juggernaut himself is stronger than ever before.

At what point has his new armor seemed more powerful than before?

They're Crimson Bands that have been stabilized to exist perpetually on the Earthly plane, yes. But even in the first scan that StiltmanFTW posted, soldiers are pulling and stretching those bands out with their hands.

He's not even immune to telepathy.

And nobody, especially not Cain Marko himself, has ever conceded that Hulk was "so much stronger" than Juggernaut. Except when he fought him, that's exactly what was said while getting smacked around by Immortal Hulk.

Yeah, agreed with all that. The armour "seems even more powerful" is just the wording in Abhi's scan.

In X of the House of Fall, the soldiers are also shooting Cain up with bullets and he's hurting.

Originally posted by Smurph
Yeah, agreed with all that. The armour "seems even more powerful" is just the wording in Abhi's scan. Well, that underlined part is your problem then. Ain't worth warm spit.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
In X of the House of Fall, the soldiers are also shooting Cain up with bullets and he's hurting. https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/oo326/OneDumbG0/Dyslexic.webp

Fall of the X of House

The X of House Fall of

He had to have been weakened in that showing.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And the fact that normal bees (which is what Swarm uses) can pierce his skin, makes me think he's not at full power.

To be fair now, they wouldn't need to pierce Cain's skin in order to apply the paralytic agent and affect him.

That's now how Toad's powers work, DarkCarver

You're saying these bees all licked Juggy's nuts?

I'll try and get AI to draw that for me for my collection

As much as I would love to see that, no, I meant that their stingers could secrete the toxin and give Cain a thick facial.

better question would be adamantium vs jugg's classic force field...

Surely that's still a durability issue though?

I'm having trouble imagining Toad's toxin affecting say, Luke Cage, on contact.

As long as the skin is porous, durability shouldn't be a problem.

Originally posted by Smurph
His latest armor was made in the Forge of Cyttorak and seems more powerful and allows him to break his connection with Cyttorak.

That's not proof that Juggernaut himself is stronger than ever before.
His armor is more powerful, ergo he's more powerful than before. It makes no sense for his armor to be more powerful but him to be somehow less powerful.

You're just making baseless assumptions.

Originally posted by leonidas
better question would be adamantium vs jugg's classic force field...
The one overpowered by a giant fan?

Is it really baseless if bees are stinging/licking him and hurting him?

Originally posted by carver9
He had to have been weakened in that showing. It strikes me that you should want current Crimson Gem-less Juggernaut to be just as, if not more powerful than, classic standard Crimson Gem Juggernaut. Because then, Immortal Hulk is way stronger than classic standard Juggernaut:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/oo326/OneDumbG0/Juggernaut01.jpg

The Church of Gamma would be sorely disappointed in you, carver9. durhulk

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Is it really baseless if bees are stinging/licking him and hurting him?
Classic Juggernaut yelled in pain from nightcrawler throwing a chandalier in his face.

Originally posted by abhilegend
His armor is more powerful, ergo he's more powerful than before. It makes no sense for his armor to be more powerful but him to be somehow less powerful.

You're just making baseless assumptions. I haven't assumed anything. You thought you proved something. I read the words in your scan and repeated them back to you. You just didn't prove the thing you thought you proved.

Also you keep ignoring the word "seems". "Seems more powerful" is a world apart from "is more powerful".

Originally posted by Smurph
I haven't assumed anything. You thought you proved something. I read the words in your scan and repeated them back to you. You just didn't prove the thing you thought you proved.

Also you keep ignoring the word "seems". "Seems more powerful" is a world apart from "is more powerful".
Anyway, Juggernaut has his new armor and his gem inside his body when he was pierced by adamantium.

https://i.postimg.cc/Zn1qY167/263a79ae599104b93efbccf5e8e0e0425f54e341.jpg

Now what?

Yes.... now what?

Is he still somehow weakened?

The gem is currently fragmented and is basically dust - Juggy huffed it.

We've never used handbooks and bios as primary sources so.....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The gem is currently fragmented and is basically dust - Juggy huffed it.

We've never used handbooks and bios as primary sources so.....
Scan?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Scan?

Pure BS on my part

https://i.postimg.cc/SYG58kyQ/07-8.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/t7H4hkX8/08-5.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
Is he still somehow weakened? Again, you're not proving the thing that you think you're proving.

He snorted the gem fragments. That doesn't lead to the conclusion that he's stronger than ever before. Onus is on you to prove that.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW


As much as I would love to see that, no, I meant that their stingers could secrete the toxin and give Cain a thick facial.

I don't think Cain would be clutching his head and screaming if the bees were just jizzing on his face.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Pure BS on my part

https://i.postimg.cc/SYG58kyQ/07-8.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/t7H4hkX8/08-5.jpg Originally posted by Smurph
Again, you're not proving the thing that you think you're proving.

He snorted the gem fragments. That doesn't lead to the conclusion that he's stronger than ever before. Onus is on you to prove that.
Looks more like he touched the shattered gem and it granted him powers back. Not the first time it has happened.

Again, do you have any citations that Juggernaut is weaker than before?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I don't think Cain would be clutching his head and screaming if the bees were just jizzing on his face.

His nervous system was being affected. Of course he was screaming.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Again, do you have any citations that Juggernaut is weaker than before?

Honestly, even when he was amped post-Amazing X-Men (or even double-amped in Thor) he seemed to be weaker than his classic self.

At least we know he was fully powered here:

https://i.ibb.co/0FMgZJV/feral.png

vin

Originally posted by abhilegend
Looks more like he touched the shattered gem and it granted him powers back. Not the first time it has happened.

Again, do you have any citations that Juggernaut is weaker than before? Did you read the mini?

He has no connection to Cyttorak anymore. He uses the bands of cyttorak and a snorted shard from the crimson gem to give himself Imitation Juggernaut powers. Hulk was ragdolling him and people in the comic were like "wow he is so much stronger than you!"

His armor "seems more powerful" because it does what his previous armor didn't, which is act as a power source separate from Cyttorak. It has nothing to do with Juggernaut's own power level, it's just a comparison between his old armor and his new shiny one.

He's obviously weaker. Just read the comics.

*SSSSNNNNIFF*

Usually the last thing Stilt's latest target hears.

Oh, ffs, this completely uncontroversial thread is being sh1tted up by a burden of proof fallacy. Here, current Juggernaut bounces off a forcefield in Legion of X #8 like a tool:
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/oo326/OneDumbG0/Juggernaut01_aEH5CyZujZDeKEbPjqkVtq.jpg

Basic deduction not good enough? States the obvious outright later in Legion of X #10:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/oo326/OneDumbG0/Juggernaut02.jpg

Originally posted by Smurph
Did you read the mini?

He has no connection to Cyttorak anymore. He uses the bands of cyttorak and a snorted shard from the crimson gem to give himself Imitation Juggernaut powers. Hulk was ragdolling him and people in the comic were like "wow he is so much stronger than you!"

His armor "seems more powerful" because it does what his previous armor didn't, which is act as a power source separate from Cyttorak. It has nothing to do with Juggernaut's own power level, it's just a comparison between his old armor and his new shiny one.

He's obviously weaker. Just read the comics.
Again, you're just saying words without anything to back them up.

I wish I could get more puissance.

Originally posted by ODG
Oh, ffs, this completely uncontroversial thread is being sh1tted up by a burden of proof fallacy. Here, current Juggernaut bounces off a forcefield in Legion of X #8 like a tool:
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/oo326/OneDumbG0/Juggernaut01_aEH5CyZujZDeKEbPjqkVtq.jpg

Basic deduction not good enough? States the obvious outright later in Legion of X #10:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/oo326/OneDumbG0/Juggernaut02.jpg

And then needed Banshee Rider to use him (as a steed....) to be unstoppable-enough. Lol.

Good thread but, I always figured that Juggernauts invulnerability is from his force-field/Aura. Not his actual skin, because usually when he's hurt he just regenerates. Like he did when shatterstar impaled him in the eyeball. What's the strongest durability feat without the force field/Aura?

double post

Shatterstar's sword was mystical in nature, so it bypassed some of his durability. I was always under the impression the lines from Feral in that comic weren't marks/scratches, but were there to implicate motion. Otherwise it would just look like she was holding onto his arm.

Cain is definitely not at full power currently. He has commented a few times about it. The most recent was when the Spirit of Variance used Cain and he remarked how he wasn't what he used to be.

Edit: Should've finished reading the thread for my above comment.