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Were you satisfied that Anakin turned to the Dark Side to learn a power Palpatine never really proved to have?( my first time posting a poll so if anything is wrong, I'm sorry)

Yes he did it fine.

Originally posted by Stefan Kojic
Were you satisfied that Anakin turned to the Dark Side to learn a power Palpatine never really proved to have?( my first time posting a poll so if anything is wrong, I'm sorry)

It was pathetic how Anakin was so easily lured.

Originally posted by LordSorgo
It was pathetic how Anakin was so easily lured.

hmmm

...he had no father
...his mother was dead
...he knew something terrible was going to happen to his wife
...ge felt the jedi didnt trust him by the fact they wouldnt allow him to be on the council or take the title of master

...and through all this, he has one person he trusts, can turn to and this person has been manipulating anakin from day one.


pretty well done i'd say.

(hint: think before you criticise and back it up)

Originally posted by Darth_Duffy
hmmm

...he had no father
...his mother was dead
...he knew something terrible was going to happen to his wife
...ge felt the jedi didnt trust him by the fact they wouldnt allow him to be on the council or take the title of master

...and through all this, he has one person he trusts, can turn to and this person has been manipulating anakin from day one.


pretty well done i'd say.

(hint: think before you criticise and back it up)


*Sighs* Dear lord.....

Well, anyone stupid enough to turn to the darkside over a fifteen second dream which he doesn't know is real is just plain dumb. He didn't know something terrible was gonna happen to his wife! It was a dream! Hell, i have had dreams before that my girlfriend has died. You don't see me going around murdering people because of it.


He didn't trust the Council? He was a whiney prick! He was the youngest Jedi Knight ever to join the Council and he starts crying because he didn't become a Master? He is a spoiled fool!

Originally posted by LordSorgo
*Sighs* Dear lord.....

Well, anyone stupid enough to turn to the darkside over a fifteen second dream which he doesn't know is real is just plain dumb. He didn't know something terrible was gonna happen to his wife! It was a dream! Hell, i have had dreams before that my girlfriend has died. You don't see me going around murdering people because of it.


He didn't trust the Council? He was a whiney prick! He was the youngest Jedi Knight ever to join the Council and he starts crying because he didn't become a Master? He is a spoiled fool!

palaptine managed to make him believe that he was seeing the future and not just a dream, and the only way to avoid it becoming a reality is to stick with him.
Your right, Anakin is a fool, a naive fool, but thats not saying his turn to the dark side wasnt done well, its just how lucas chose to portray him as a character.

You are absolutely right. It killed me to see what was happening to Anakin. He was lied to and lost everyone he loved. GL did a great job of showing how Anakin turned to the dark side and became Vader. It makes the fans know the *real* Anakin and the *real* Vader and what caused all of the events to happen since the original movie. I used to hate Vader, now I know why he is who he is and I have utter sympathy for him.

Originally posted by Darth_Duffy
hmmm

...he had no father
...his mother was dead
...he knew something terrible was going to happen to his wife
...ge felt the jedi didnt trust him by the fact they wouldnt allow him to be on the council or take the title of master

...and through all this, he has one person he trusts, can turn to and this person has been manipulating anakin from day one.


pretty well done i'd say.

(hint: think before you criticise and back it up)

I thought it was good.

Anakin's dream was a premonition . Jedi can have premonitions that can actually become real. Star wars is not like the real world. Anakin had had premonitions about his mother dying, and she died.... so when he has premonitions about his wife, of course he's afraid the same will happen again. and the jedi are taught that by acting on their premonitions, they can become real even more likely, which is the irony of the whole thing.


and anakin didnt trust the council because they made him spy on his best friend. palpatine knew exactly the right things to say to anakin so he would be sure about the council's betrayal. to anakin, it all made sense, because he didnt know everything as we do as spectators. try to put yourselves in his position, with his knowledge, background, traumas, fears... i think you'll understand him better. add to that his inherent lunacy...

Well, personally Anakin was weak and easily turned. He lacked the conviction and morality of a true Jedi knight, and he was a failure due to his own moral character and due to the council's poor decisions regarding letting the boy even become a jedi. It was their folly that lead to the creation of Darth Vader... It was fitting they paid for it with their lives.

But really, Lucas did okay with the turn... But it's not like Anakin was some superhero who suddenly gets the world dropped on him and goes bad; no instead he was a whiney, uncontrolled prodigy who was obssessed over his wife and it lead to an age of darkness and the near destruction of the very balance he was supposed to be born to preserve.

Originally posted by LordSorgo
*Sighs* Dear lord.....

Well, anyone stupid enough to turn to the darkside over a fifteen second dream which he doesn't know is real is just plain dumb. He didn't know something terrible was gonna happen to his wife! It was a dream! Hell, i have had dreams before that my girlfriend has died. You don't see me going around murdering people because of it.


He didn't trust the Council? He was a whiney prick! He was the youngest Jedi Knight ever to join the Council and he starts crying because he didn't become a Master? He is a spoiled fool!

It was a premonition, not a dream that he was flying or winning the lottery; he predicted his mother would die, and she did, so his worries that the love of his life would die were justified.

Darth_Duffy has the right idea. Palpatine had molded himself into Anakin's life as his father figure over Obi-Wan, taking advantage of the fact that Anakin lacked one. Then, his mother had died after a premonition and he had one of his wife, as I stated above. And it wasn't that he didn't trust the Council, it was that the Council didn't trust him. Anakin's lust for power caused him to think ill of their decision not to make him a Jedi Master. Palpatine has indeed been manipulating him all the while.

Perfectly well done.

Anakins fall was done well, except that damn theater scenedisgust

Three useless things came out of that scene

a) Darth Plagueis
b) Influencing midichlorians
c) Being able to stop death

None of those proved useful to the movie since they werent focused on after that. Well, of course stopping death was useful to sway Anakin, but there was no:
"Oh look at what I can do Anakin' *Stops someone from dying*
"Wow, neato, can I learn?"
"Nah, kill some Jedi, then we'll talk"

It was a passing comment to lure Anakin. Completely useless after that.

Sir Mist that was used for implanting doubt in Anakin's head, being true or not, that was irrelevant at that point. And in that moment it would be too quickly for Palpatine to reveal himself to Anakin.

Your the first to call me Sir Mist

You win a prize

I know what it was used for, but it would have been better had someone actually used the damn power instead of more bullcrap from George

i think the purpose was to show that palpatine played Anakin for a fool. as in, he didn't know how to use the power, but pretended like he did to win Anakin over. he played on how much Anakin loved his wife and he used that against him.

Anakin's turn to the dark side was done well. And how was it easy for Anakin to turn. It took alot of planning and manituplating on Palpatine's part. Remember, it did not just happen in the spur of the moment, it took about three years for Palpatine to fully turn Anakin. It all started in ATOC.

Originally posted by Darth_Duffy
hmmm

...he had no father
...his mother was dead
...he knew something terrible was going to happen to his wife
...ge felt the jedi didnt trust him by the fact they wouldnt allow him to be on the council or take the title of master

...and through all this, he has one person he trusts, can turn to and this person has been manipulating anakin from day one.


pretty well done i'd say.

Agreed. It was pretty pathetic but considering his situation is was prefectly likely that he would react how he did. He didn't want Padme to die and was willing to do anything to stop it.

Originally posted by ~Sir Mist~
Your the first to call me Sir Mist

You win a prize

I know what it was used for, but it would have been better had someone actually used the damn power instead of more bullcrap from George

Thing is, I have yet to see any such power from anyone in the movies or EU...

Over the three movies I think George did a great job setting up and showing the turn.



Yes Anakin was weak and pathetic, but he had reasons for doing it. He was Palps pawn since the day he became a jedi(or since being created ). And the "just a dream" argument is bullshit, he has the same "dreams" about his mother, and I believe she died.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Thing is, I have yet to see any such power from anyone in the movies or EU...

Which is why the whole thing was stupid...if Palpatine actually had the power (and we saw proof) it wouldntve been so bad.....but Anakin's whole turning was based off bullshit ramblings from Palpatine, it just makes him look like a gullible idiot for following Palpatine instead of being some 'uber Dark Lord Chosen One' etc etc...Anakin should have at least learnt something off Palpatine to make him bad ass...

But meh...cant change the movie...

Yes it was.

Originally posted by Sir Mist

"Oh look at what I can do Anakin' *Stops someone from dying*
"Wow, neato, can I learn?"
"Nah, kill some Jedi, then we'll talk"


hysterical hysterical

It was too quick--one minute he has Obiwan unconcious on his back, the next he's cuttin off Windu's arm.

Originally posted by Sorgo
It was pathetic how Anakin was so easily lured.

read the book, mucho more detail given on this

He made the reasoning more realistic. At first, the power was secondary to the ability to save Padme. Unfortunately, the farther he fell the more the thought of the power consumed him.

I really dont think his turn was too fast. If you think about it, Anakin's decent into darkness started long before he was discovered by the Jedi, fueled by his hatred for being a slave. Hell, he already had an enormous chip on his shoulder at age 9 when Padme called him a slave in Watto's shop. Siding with Palpatine was just the final step.

I would also keep in mind how young Anakin was. He was truly still a kid, what 23 or 24? Having been through so much at such a young age, it would be too much for almost anyone to handle well.

Originally posted by Soren the Mage
*Sighs* Dear lord.....

Well, anyone stupid enough to turn to the darkside over a fifteen second dream which he doesn't know is real is just plain dumb. He didn't know something terrible was gonna happen to his wife! It was a dream! Hell, i have had dreams before that my girlfriend has died. You don't see me going around murdering people because of it.


He didn't trust the Council? He was a whiney prick! He was the youngest Jedi Knight ever to join the Council and he starts crying because he didn't become a Master? He is a spoiled fool!

You my friend, are an idiot. First, Anakin doesn't turn because of the dream. Second, you don't comprehend his actions at all. He turns because he is greedy and selfish.

If you were intelligent, and watch it again, you will see he actually only cares about himself and power. The fact that he wants to be with Padme is for his own selfish reasons and that HE wants to be happy, not her. After he gains more power, he even kills her because he doesn't need her love anymore, but rather the power itself.

He doesn't really love Padme, just how she makes HIM feel. Padme is his rationalization of why he needs more power, and without that he would have to see himself for what he really is, evil. You are a failure!

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t493554.html <--- my theory on how it should have been done is in this thread. I think he should have been more rational with his choice, and he should have been much older by the time of rots.

Didn't really like it at all.

This was one of my ideas in startling detail.

Originally posted by ~JP~
read the book, mucho more detail given on this

THat scene in the book shows how badly it was done in the film. The book scene was pretty neat, I bought that. I didn't buy it in the film.

Originally posted by brrrr
You my friend, are an idiot. First, Anakin doesn't turn because of the dream. Second, you don't comprehend his actions at all. He turns because he is greedy and selfish.

If you were intelligent, and watch it again, you will see he actually only cares about himself and power. The fact that he wants to be with Padme is for his own selfish reasons and that HE wants to be happy, not her. After he gains more power, he even kills her because he doesn't need her love anymore, but rather the power itself.

He doesn't really love Padme, just how she makes HIM feel. Padme is his rationalization of why he needs more power, and without that he would have to see himself for what he really is, evil. You are a failure!

I like how this person is banned, and the comment was made several years ago. Let it die, for god's sake. Necromancy much?

GL's writing AotC was terrible (live a lie? no, yes, no YES no?) and RotS wasn't much better. At least there was no Jar Jar. And the Ani/Obi fight was pretty cool. So yes. yes it was handled well. The descent was poorly written and the idea of a 'secret marriage' is ludicrous, but It was well done.


"YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!!!" (I used both shift keys at once)

Pure gold. The rest- not so much.

Originally posted by Jbill311
I like how this person is banned, and the comment was made several years ago. Let it die, for god's sake. Necromancy much?

GL's writing AotC was terrible (live a lie? no, yes, no YES no?) and RotS wasn't much better. At least there was no Jar Jar. And the Ani/Obi fight was pretty cool. So yes. yes it was handled well. The descent was poorly written and the idea of a 'secret marriage' is ludicrous, but It was well done.


"YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!!!" (I used both shift keys at once)

Pure gold. The rest- not so much. That's cause Ewan McGregor is an excellent actor though. Would anyone else in that cast that movie had to say it it would be garbage as well.

Ian McDiarmid?

He's the other actor in this film who I would call 'excellent'. The rest are all 'meh'. Even SLJ, who is a good actor in general, was just plain 'ugh' as Mace Windu.

The descent was handled brilliantly, in my opinion, s'pecially if you read all the novels. I like the gradual descent (not the sudden "I'M GONNA GO EVIL!" shit people have made it out to be), the irony of him causing Padme's deaths, and, most of all, how understandable and humane his turn is.

Even better is the way the destruction of the Jedi is handled. From the Anakin vs. Obi-Wan fight to "YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!", to "Anakin... you're breaking my heart." (bad dialogue. Awesome music, powerful emotion, and good acting on Natalie's part), to Ki-Adi-Mundi's look, to "The First Galactic Empire!" speech.

Yeah. Kudos, GL. I forgive you for the Ewoks 'cause of that. Okay, almost forgive you.

NAtalie good acting??? Generally yes, in SW... meh....

Just in that scene. She was pretty bad the rest of the movie.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Ian McDiarmid?

He's the other actor in this film who I would call 'excellent'. The rest are all 'meh'. Even SLJ, who is a good actor in general, was just plain 'ugh' as Mace Windu.

The descent was handled brilliantly, in my opinion, s'pecially if you read all the novels. I like the gradual descent (not the sudden "I'M GONNA GO EVIL!" shit people have made it out to be), the irony of him causing Padme's deaths, and, most of all, how understandable and humane his turn is.

Even better is the way the destruction of the Jedi is handled. From the Anakin vs. Obi-Wan fight to "YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!", to "Anakin... you're breaking my heart." (bad dialogue. Awesome music, powerful emotion, and good acting on Natalie's part), to Ki-Adi-Mundi's look, to "The First Galactic Empire!" speech.

Yeah. Kudos, GL. I forgive you for the Ewoks 'cause of that. Okay, almost forgive you. I didn't like Ian McDiarmid in any of them really.

Originally posted by queeq
NAtalie good acting??? Generally yes, in SW... meh....

Lets blame GL's script.

Originally posted by queeq
THat scene in the book shows how badly it was done in the film. The book scene was pretty neat, I bought that. I didn't buy it in the film.

Which is precisely why the book was 10 times better than the movie, as is usually the case.

Which is sad and bizarre.... How can a book of the film be better than the film????

I didn't find the book to be all that better. It's an awesome book, but a film has its merits as well.

Originally posted by queeq
Which is sad and bizarre.... How can a book of the film be better than the film????

I wouldn't say you can really compare them. The story's yes...but movies have shots...audio, music, directing...etc. Books have a bunch of letters...sentences...and all of the other boring stuff.

The book is derived from the film story by George Lucas. It's not really a book-book...

Originally posted by sweersa
I wouldn't say you can really compare them. The story's yes...but movies have shots...audio, music, directing...etc. Books have a bunch of letters...sentences...and all of the other boring stuff.

I take it you don't read much?

While movies do in fact add all of what you mention they don't supersede a persons imagined perceptions that are derived from reading a book.




and............... QUEEQ

JP!!!!

STEVE HOLT!!!

Where?

Originally posted by ~JP~
I take it you don't read much?

While movies do in fact add all of what you mention they don't supersede a persons imagined perceptions that are derived from reading a book.


lol Yeah, I don't read a whole lot. I really have to like a book to continue and finish it. So far it is mostly star wars and military books.

I have a personal reason why I love star wars books also, a story for another thread, lol.

Originally posted by queeq
The book is derived from the film story by George Lucas. It's not really a book-book...

Right.

Tell us teh personal reason.

Originally posted by queeq
Tell us teh personal reason.

Eh...

Well, when I was in like 3rd grade...I wasn't exactly the best reader ever. I struggled, was unmotivated becuase I didn't have any good material I wanted to read. I was behind and had to be in a special retard reading class to be totally blunt.

Of course at that time I was a SW fan, as I have been most of my life. My mom bought me some SW books, one was a Darth Maul diary type book and I forget the other. I read them both..and loved them. Then my mom bought me some of the Jedi Apprentice books. I also really enjoyed them and read them. She kept on getting me more of the Jedi Apprentice books, and my reading level improved two years or levels worth in about one-two months. So within a year or less I surpassed the "normal" reading grade level for my class/age, all becuase of Jude Watson's Star Wars books.

To this day I still buy the younger aged Star Wars books, (Jedi Quest...then The Last of the Jedi, becuase I am so grateful that they helped me as a child and got me to where I am today.) And I love the stories, even thought they are for kids. Sometimes it is weird seeing someone my age in the Children section...but I saw Clone Wars so whatever.

And of course I read occasionally GOOD EU books like the Darth Bane novels...etc. I also enjoy American military biographies.

Thank you George Lucas for the Star Wars universe and thank you Jude Watson for writing books that ultimately helped me get out of an educational problem and beyond my classmates! Thank you so much!

Originally posted by queeq
Tell us teh personal reason. O-off topic ermm

I guess at least Sweersa's turn to the book side was succesful.

Originally posted by sweersa
Eh...

Well, when I was in like 3rd grade...I wasn't exactly the best reader ever. I struggled, was unmotivated becuase I didn't have any good material I wanted to read. I was behind and had to be in a special retard reading class to be totally blunt.

Of course at that time I was a SW fan, as I have been most of my life. My mom bought me some SW books, one was a Darth Maul diary type book and I forget the other. I read them both..and loved them. Then my mom bought me some of the Jedi Apprentice books. I also really enjoyed them and read them. She kept on getting me more of the Jedi Apprentice books, and my reading level improved two years or levels worth in about one-two months. So within a year or less I surpassed the "normal" reading grade level for my class/age, all becuase of Jude Watson's Star Wars books.

To this day I still buy the younger aged Star Wars books, (Jedi Quest...then The Last of the Jedi, becuase I am so grateful that they helped me as a child and got me to where I am today.) And I love the stories, even thought they are for kids. Sometimes it is weird seeing someone my age in the Children section...but I saw Clone Wars so whatever.

And of course I read occasionally GOOD EU books like the Darth Bane novels...etc. I also enjoy American military biographies.

Thank you George Lucas for the Star Wars universe and thank you Jude Watson for writing books that ultimately helped me get out of an educational problem and beyond my classmates! Thank you so much!

Well SEE! This was a good thing.


QUEEQ!!!!!!!

Originally posted by ~JP~
Well SEE! This was a good thing.



Absolutely, I am very thankful for George Lucas and Jude Watson.

Originally posted by queeq
I guess at least Sweersa's turn to the book side was succesful.

Hehehe. It was very much so. As much as I make fun of the EU, it actually had a huge impact on my life. lol

Originally posted by ~JP~
Well SEE! QUEEQ!!!!!!!

JP!!!!!!!

just kiss and be done with it. and post pics please. ty.

I is confused...

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
just kiss and be done with it. and post pics please. ty.

Just kiss??? I had something else in mind.

No doubt, and for that matter why take pix when you can film it? naughty

Originally posted by queeq
Just kiss??? I had something else in mind.

Hugs?

Errrmmmm... in the R-rated version, yes.

Originally posted by queeq
Errrmmmm... in the R-rated version, yes.

Hahaha. Raw footage! We want raw footage!

I just answered this question in the "what did you dislike about the PT" thread.

I think GL did a horrible job showing how A. Skywalker turned to the Darkside. If you wanna know why do, go to the aforementioned thread :P.

Originally posted by Blinky
I just answered this question in the "what did you dislike about the PT" thread.

I think GL did a horrible job showing how A. Skywalker turned to the Darkside. If you wanna know why do, go to the aforementioned thread :P.

Now matter how good GL did it people would always complain...

Seriously...you think Anakin is gunna be a good boy after cutting the arm off of a Jedi master? He got enraged...Padme means a lot more to him than Mace...plus Mace wasn't exactly the nicest guy with Anakin.

Come on... the scene didn't quite work, now did it?

Originally posted by queeq
Come on... the scene didn't quite work, now did it?

How did it not work? Because they forgot to show the part where Mace grabbed on a speeder saving his life?

No. The sudden transitions from cutting off MAce's hands to "What have I done?" to "I submit to your teachings"... All within a minute or two... That's all rather, bweeerkk... especially after Anakin imploring Mace a few minutes before to come along because he feels he's the only who can defeat a Sith master...

Originally posted by queeq
No. The sudden transitions from cutting off MAce's hands to "What have I done?" to "I submit to your teachings"... All within a minute or two... That's all rather, bweeerkk... especially after Anakin imploring Mace a few minutes before to come along because he feels he's the only who can defeat a Sith master...

Yeah...I suppose that submission thing was a bit early.

It would have been better if Palpatine showed Anakin a power point about how being a Sith is better.

Hahaha.

Originally posted by sweersa


It would have been better if Palpatine showed Anakin a power point about how being a Sith is better.



Bwahahaha!

Hehehe.

"Now witness the full power of my slide transitions!"

"I borrowed this one from Uncle George."

Anakin: "You shouldn't just read off your Powerpoint. That kinda makes your presentation useless, you might as well e-mail it to me."

Originally posted by queeq
No. The sudden transitions from cutting off MAce's hands to "What have I done?" to "I submit to your teachings"... All within a minute or two... That's all rather, bweeerkk... especially after Anakin imploring Mace a few minutes before to come along because he feels he's the only who can defeat a Sith master...

Well, Mace destroyed the last shred of faith Anakin had left in the Jedi by telling him to stay put. From that point, Anakin was going to help Palpatine no matter what Mace was going to do. The whole "What have I done" bit was basically Anakin's way of saying "I can't believe I did that".

Technically, I see what you are saying. Emotionally all those scenes just don't work. It's highly unbelievable.

Besides, Anakin wasn't going to "help" Palpatine, I think he went in to either save the Jedi or at least keep Palpy alive. The unclarity about what exactly is going on in Anakin's mind kinda proves the point that motivations and emotions are extremely muddled and messy in these scenes. ergo, it makes them not very well done. It's all rather puzzling.

Originally posted by queeq
Technically, I see what you are saying. Emotionally all those scenes just don't woryy. It's highly unbelievable.

Besides, Anakin wasn't going to "help" Palpatine, I think he went in to either save the Jedi or at least keep Palpy alive. The unclarity about what exactly is going on in Anakin's mind kinda proves the point that motivations and emotions are extremely muddled and messy in these scenes. ergo, it makes them not very well done. It's all rather puzzling.

The PT is pretty complex politically and emotionally compared to the older films. I had to get used to that as well.

It has nothing to do with complexity. It has to do with bad storytelling. Motives are unclear yet outcomes are supposed to have severe consequences even though we don't get why . Take the whol Naboo conflict for instance. What the heck was thata bout to make such a fuss?
Same with Anakin... it's unclear what the heck his problem is. He's a jerk in AOTC so why the surprise he turns? We don't understand his motives very well and yet we're not surprised by his actions. It just makes him all the more unsympathetic because we're inclined to be indifferent to him. That is the filmmaker's fault, he forgot to take us along on Anakin's journey.

Originally posted by queeq
It has nothing to do with complexity. It has to do with bad storytelling. Motives are unclear yet outcomes are supposed to have severe consequences even though we don't get why . Take the whol Naboo conflict for instance. What the heck was thata bout to make such a fuss?
Same with Anakin... it's unclear what the heck his problem is. He's a jerk in AOTC so why the surprise he turns? We don't understand his motives very well and yet we're not surprised by his actions. It just makes him all the more unsympathetic because we're inclined to be indifferent to him. That is the filmmaker's fault, he forgot to take us along on Anakin's journey.

Palpatine sort of masterminded the Naboo conflict to become chancellor. Otherwise, to each his own. The OT is black and white where as the PT isn't.

The PT is blurry indeed, in many ways.

But seriously, how exactly does Padme signing a treaty with the TF lead to domination of the universe??? What exactly WAS the treaty and where would it lead if the Jedi had not intervened? It's a strange puzzle... and complete bizarre for a kiddie movie.

Originally posted by queeq
The PT is blurry indeed, in many ways.

But seriously, how exactly does Padme signing a treaty with the TF lead to domination of the universe??? What exactly WAS the treaty and where would it lead if the Jedi had not intervened? It's a strange puzzle... and complete bizarre for a kiddie movie.

Meh. It is a lot to take in. Ask George Lucas. And then watch how fast he runs away, lol just kidding.

A lot to take in? We didn't get much to take in. Well, apart from JarJar and a bitter pill that was.

Originally posted by queeq
A lot to take in? We didn't get much to take in. Well, apart from JarJar and a bitter pill that was.

Many things on the PT were going on, sometimes a lot of things at once. Makes it very exciting and next generation proof.

I think we diffre greatly on that assessment.

Originally posted by queeq
I think we diffre greatly on that assessment.

Sometimes great minds think different.

Movies are movies, some people like them, some people do not like them. Some are in between and some don't care.

Some could be better while others could be worse.

But one thing remains true.

Star Wars is awesome!

It's suffering from inflation though... more of the same kinda devaluates it.

Originally posted by queeq
It's suffering from inflation though... more of the same kinda devaluates it.

What do you mean exactly?

Well, the PT has many repetitions of the OT (in events like fights, arms being cut off, and in lines). Now the Clone Wars are here and we see even more repetitions. So it kinda loses its flavour.

I felt they rushed it a bit, I'd prefered it if he would have been seduced instead of going mad of fear for losing a beloved. apart from some fights, the movie was a tad bit of a dissapointment to me.

The seduction should have spannend two movies.

Originally posted by queeq
The seduction should have spannend two movies.

It did sort of. Anakin and Palpatine became pretty close in Episode II.

Originally posted by queeq
Well, the PT has many repetitions of the OT (in events like fights, arms being cut off, and in lines). Now the Clone Wars are here and we see even more repetitions. So it kinda loses its flavour.

Well, thats becuase these are all Star Wars movies, the "bad feeling about this" and the arms chopping off is a Star Wars thing. Every OT movie had it, so why not the PT? They are all Star Wars. These things among many, many others are in what is called the Star Wars plot formula.

http://www.supershadow.com/starwars/formula.html

Don't let the url scare you, this is a legitimate and a very interesting list.

THe repetitions show too much that development has not proceeded as much as the technical possibilities. Some repetitive motifs are fine, that's part of storytelling, but they're exxagerating this.

Originally posted by queeq
THe repetitions show too much that development has not proceeded as much as the technical possibilities. Some repetitive motifs are fine, that's part of storytelling, but they're exxagerating this.

I suppose that is matter of opinion.

Prolly, but I still think I can make a good case in pointing out the lack of imagination being shown in comparison to the OT.

Do you think you can make a good case apart from saying you disagree and have a different opinion?

Originally posted by queeq
Prolly, but I still think I can make a good case in pointing out the lack of imagination being shown in comparison to the OT.

Do you think you can make a good case apart from saying you disagree and have a different opinion?

Yes. First you need to watch the PT, watch it with yourself or with a loved one or your children. You need to clear your mind of all of the anti-PT garbage and totally tune in to the brilliant piece of art in front of you on your display.

There is really too much for me to explain, you either like a movie or you don't. People interpret works of art different than others and some just don't "get it."

Every SW film is the same in a number of ways. They mainly seem to focus on internal conflicts within pivotal characters. Luke's struggle to become a Jedi successfully, and his decisions on his interactions with his father. And Anakin perhaps has the deepest and most disturbing internal conflicts revolving around his rare power and his struggle with the Dark Side. Another obvious observation in Star Wars is the conflicts between opposing forces are very dynamic because usually always it seems one force has the upper hand, and the other must use sophisticated means of defeating the enemy. The Sith in the PT are a very small group, they obviously can't defeat the Jedi and the Republic exclusively by force so they have to rely on cunning intelligence and political manipulation of other forces. At one point the Sith technically controlled both opposing factions. (Clone Wars)

In the OT you have a very similar situation, the Rebels are a little and seemingly weak force compared to the Galactic Empire, the Sith rule the galaxy with an iron fist, and the Jedi are basically almost non-existent. Both trilogies almost have opposite settings, but they are directly related to each other. The Rebels are the weaker faction, thus they must rely on faith in the Force, intelligence and some force to restore a proper foundation in the Galaxy.

Both trilogies are equally as complex if you look at them. Look at the overall plots, look at the stories, the messages, rises, falls, and redemption. Star Wars is basically classic and popular literature re-told under George Lucas' vision in a space fantasy universe with amazing characters and complex wars with evil and good everywhere, and both always struggling for control.

Prequel Trilogy, Original Trilogy, you can argue all you want, you can make fun of the effects of the OT, or call them boring. You can complain all you want about Jar Jar Binks and midichloreans in the PT. None of this really matters though becuase they are ultimately not going to change. (Hard to say with George but that isn't the point.) Star Wars is Star Wars and nothing will change. If you have an idea of what you think should of happened in your own made up version of Star Wars get it out of your head everybody becuase it isn't what happened. We have the nine I mean six DVDs and it is all there for you to enjoy. They will be around forever and loved by people of all ages.

Star Wars will always be the story of the Rise and Fall of Anakin Skywalker. Don't look at the little things that maybe you don't think were done the best, acting, visual effects, whatever that may be. I have my opnions on what could have been better in both trilogies but I don't dislike either one becuase of that. I look at the story, and the emotional feelings I get from them. The death of Qui-Gon in The Phantom Menace, the Jedi slaughter in Attack of the Clone, and the tearful outcome of Obi-Wan's and Anakin's fate shaping duel all emotionally impacted me as they did many, many others.

They are all movies, they all make up Star Wars.

Dude, I watched them all when they came out, all six of them. And they are not complex movies, they are quite simple. But what the PT does is make them pretend they are complex and tehrefore missing the point that it's fairly simple. The PT hides the basic emotions and underlying motives too much. Instead it gives us over the top emotion (love scenes with Padme, "Then you are my enemy!" etc.) or a total lack of it (like most of TPM). It's just not in tune with the story it's trying to tell.

they stick to a simple design indeed
less is more =)

We could only wish.

I'll want to see a lot more graduation taking place over the Clone Wars series at least in regards to his darkside transition.

It still, despite the reasoning and greek tragedy stuff, seemed too soon.

This is why I'd have had Lucas start Episode as AOTCish time... With Anakin already being a Jedi, giving more room for the circumstances truely unfold over the three movies..

Transition? He's a grumpy here as he is in both AOTC and ROTS. What transition? He always was a moody dude.

but in the clone wars series he's not that grumpy...

Originally posted by Jovan
but in the clone wars series he's not that grumpy...

That's because he just wants to get with Ashoka. Anakin knows how the play that game.

I mean when he was 9 he scored a queen several years older than him.

Guy's got some serious skill.

Originally posted by queeq
Transition? He's a grumpy here as he is in both AOTC and ROTS. What transition? He always was a moody dude.

Jovan's right. Anakin is kinda generic 'stern good guy' in CW right now..

Him being that way, more centered and heroic and having a Pixar generic 'cute big eyed' little sidekick who he has pet names for do make the transition a bit more 'distancey'.

And lets face it, in ROTS he is a parent-to-be and a child killer like 25 mins later. Theres a big difference between angrily stropping off about Padme, momentary lashing out in anger over the death of a loved one and the massively accelerated decline that Lucas surely had to have rushed cause he spent so much time messing about with Gungans and sunny holidays in TPM and AOTC... Not enough suited Vader time either IMO

True. But I doubt Anakin will have much character progression in CW. He had none in the AOTC-ROTS run, how could there be in the time in between?

Well they attempted it in the previous CW cartoon.
There was at least a darker thing going on with the cave visions and his massacre of those TF guys in the end. (Force crushing necks etc)

That one... yeah, that wasn't too bad. Maybe we'll revisit Anakin killing Asajj Ventress,

Was she definitely killed..?
We just saw her fall far below into the darkness...

If the current Clone Wars is meant to have taken place between CW seasons 1 and 2, then she would logically in this current season be dead as Anakin's fight with her took place in CW season 1...

But alas it would seem that Anakin didnt kill her then.

(Unless you refer to some other confrontation they had in a book or some other EU source maybe set after this current time period.)

I always assumed she died. I still have no idea how this CW series ties in with the old one.

Well for the chronology of it, I'd kinda been judging it on what vehicles/technology the fleet had.

In the pilot of this current run they had AOTC era ships, trooper uniforms and tech, and now we are seeing the ROTS style stuff. The original CW had season 1 with AOTC hardware and then season 2 jumps forward and takes us to the coda that is ROTS.

So thats why Im assuming that these current episodes are between the two somewhere.

And the last time we saw Anakin and Ventress go at it, the AOTC era stuff was being used.

Ah... well maybe. I have no clue and maybe I don't even want to have a clue.

No ones forcing you to have one.

have a beer? yes Im forcing queeq to have a grolsch! hes not putting up much resistance..lol