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i was just reading one of the NJO books and i was wondering about something. how much do you think anakin skywalker(not solo) could have contributed to the fight against the youzhan vong? that is to say if he was at the power level he was in episode 3 or if he had become more experienced and not left as suited vader. a lot of the characters in the books do things that are far more powerful than anything in the movies. it is very similar to the clone wars cartoon where the characters are much more powerful. i think it would be interesting to put anakin in a situation with the vong and see what he could have unleashed on them when the galaxy depended on it.

If Vader hadn't had his suit, he would have been unstoppable. He would have combined his speed, agility, power, wisdom into one great force user. On top of that, he would have force power that would make Exar, Revan or NJO Luke look like younglings, because lets admit it, being the Chosen One would have actually meant something if Anny could have tapped into his full potential. In closing, The Vong would have been owned.

In my opinion luke and anakin have the same potential, NJO luke is how anakin should have been. And to answer your question full potential anakin would of certainly helped alot .

And if Anakin was a sith lord (we know that NJO skywalker held back alot), consdering what we know of DE sideous, Prime Vader (my term for the would have been unscarred sith lord) would probably have had a force storm that would rival the death star's power. And if that didn't work because of Vong force insensitiviy , He'd still be a damn powerfull fighter who coudl just bludgeon them with objects and lightning, as well as using the vaccum trick to strangle them. You know Prime vader would be able to do that one. Man wrote the book on asphixiation, both in giving and recieving.

i disagree about the luke and anakin being equal. i think they may be as far as potential go.i think that anakin would be very different from luke in action simply b/c he wouldnt hold anything back but i really think that the EU makes luke really wimpy. he isnt that much better than many of the other jedi. i am only on like the 6th book of the NJO but so far in all of the eu luke gets by on a lot of luck and other people helping him out. i would really like to see him become nearly invincible. and as i said that may happen by the end.

NJO Luke is stupidly overpowered; you couldn't ask for more. I actually think it's decent, but any more would be dumb. And no, Luke is not what Anakin could have been. Anakin would have been beyond even Luke.

Originally posted by Darth Windu
NJO Luke is stupidly overpowered; you couldn't ask for more. I actually think it's decent, but any more would be dumb. And no, Luke is not what Anakin could have been. Anakin would have been beyond even Luke.

What luke did in ROTJ(beat vader with a years training) is more impressive than anything anakins done, if anakin wasnt the chosen one I would say luke is much stronger but I can only say they are equal. ROTJ vader is also stronger than ROTS vader like I have been always saying, its due to dark side knowledge and experience instead of just having potential, refer to shadows of the empire for when vader says this himself.

Yeah he beat Anakin. At what was possibly the lowest point in Anakin's life. First, when he found out his son was alive, he began to hope, an emotion that would surely detract from his power (and probably cemented the Emperor's decision that it was time for a new apprentice). Not to mention that he was under orders not to kill luke, just as Luke hit a nasty spike of power. Had Luke Skywalker simply had another last name and came form a planet other then tattoine, vader would have simply bludgeoned him to death on cloud city, or done something similiar in the emperors compound.

Besides Vengeance, we know vader never got to where he should be. I just see a fully matured Vader as being stronger then Luke.

I think he could have trained a lot of the new Jedi in some of the old ways and they would have been a lot better. In a straight fight, he would have done pretty good, except the others had fought without the force for at least part of their lives, while Anakin has always(except in kid fist fights) to fight so would have to spend some time learning to fight the Vong.

By the end of NJO, Luke is pretty damn powerful, more powerful than Episode III's Anakin.

However, Anakin would have been insanely powerful had he stayed on the Light Side.

I never contradicted that. I believe it myself. But even according to GL, Anakin would have been the most powerful being ever if he'd reached his full potential. Luke is a shadow of what his father could have been.

Late post again. That was to Vengeance.

GL also says that Luke can become what Anakin never did.

And never mind what SOTE says; George has also specifically stated that Vader has lost much of Anakin's power.

Btw... when did Anakin ever display wisdom?

Anakin would have killed so many Vong it wouldn' even be funny. Even in his suit he could take a Vong (He's a Skywalker, what do you expect?)

Originally posted by Ushgarak
GL also says that Luke can become what Anakin never did.

And never mind what SOTE says; George has also specifically stated that Vader has lost much of Anakin's power.

Btw... when did Anakin ever display wisdom?



I meant OT Vader's wisdom. He wasn't nearly as foolish in a fight, he was more disciplined and he didn't let his emotions control him in a battle.

^^

Originally posted by Human Vader
If Vader hadn't had his suit, he would have been unstoppable. He would have combined his speed, agility, power, wisdom into one great force user. On top of that, he would have force power that would make Exar, Revan or NJO Luke look like younglings, because lets admit it, being the Chosen One would have actually meant something if Anny could have tapped into his full potential. In closing, The Vong would have been owned. Hell YEAH!

Also, don't you think that if one of the Jedi, like Kyp, had kept up with Force Lightning, he could have dealt more damage to Vong warriors and technology rather than just attacking with a sabre?

I have come to be an arragent moron to SW campared to u guys whats NJO for cryin out loud i finally figured out the rest

Originally posted by Darth Hawkeye
I have come to be an arragent moron to SW campared to u guys whats NJO for cryin out loud i finally figured out the rest

No commas, no periods and no question mark.

I think u asked what they mean by NJO?
They are talking about a book series called the New Jedi Order, set 20 years after RotJ.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Hell YEAH!

Also, don't you think that if one of the Jedi, like Kyp, had kept up with Force Lightning, he could have dealt more damage to Vong warriors and technology rather than just attacking with a sabre?

we know Kyp was stronger then luke, though we don't know how strong he was compared to Anakin. Kyp is basically the only person thus who could conceviably rival anakin. Which makes his utter squandering rather sad. He never even comes close to his own potential. Anakin I think would have gotten farther. And would indeed be stronger then Luke.

Originally posted by InsaneNoodlyGuy
we know Kyp was stronger then luke, though we don't know how strong he was compared to Anakin. Kyp is basically the only person thus who could conceviably rival anakin. Which makes his utter squandering rather sad. He never even comes close to his own potential. Anakin I think would have gotten farther. And would indeed be stronger then Luke. Yeah.........ok.............I wasn't talking about that, but...alright.

Okay, where to begin. First off: would Anakin have made a contribution?
Of course, but as a senior citizen. NJO is set approximately 25-30 years after ANH(ep4) which itself is set 19 years after ROTS(ep3). Now factor in young Annie's age at the time of TPM(ep1) (6 or 8, I cant remember which exactly, it's been so long since I've watched that POS, besides I'm not even sure they actually say, so I'm just going to say 7). Now, 7+13(the time in years from EP1-EP3)+19+25-30=64-69...I don't care how powerful in the force he is, thats old. Now granted Palpatine was old as sheeaat in ROTJ(ep6), but he wasn't fighting the Vong, and he still got beaten by a half broken Vader. that in and of itself doesn't bode well for the whole "power" issue. Did Vader have more power than Palpatine? Whether it be because of the suit, or simply because of restricted education...I'm going to have to say no. If he had had more power, he would have overthrown the emperor already(it is the Sith way after all). So having gotten what did happen out of the way, let's talk about the what if's. Non dark side Anakin vs. The Vong. Well to begin with, non-dark side Anakin would have grown very powerful indeed, but not in the same manor as Vader. Anakin would have been a balanced "old ways" oriented Jedi(finish the NJO series and you'll understand what I mean by "old ways" engulfed in the Jedi code. This means that he would not have unleashed "force lightning", or "choked" anyone. He would have played it by the book for fear of falling to the dark side and would probably have all of the same hang-ups with the Vong that all of the Jedi in NJO. Except that he'd be old, too old to be the effective fighter that he once was. Therefor. the fight would've been placed on the next generation anyways, which I might add would've been stronger for having learned what they could from Anakin.Anakin's role would be one of mentor, not fighter. He probably would have been martyred at the fall of the academy on Yavin(for those of you who haven't made it that far into the series, I apologize, but It's worth reading for yourself), and that's assuming that events would conspire to even bring about the new Jedi academy. So, yes Anakin would've made a difference, but only in the events, not the outcome.

That's just idiotic. Look at Dooku. 83 years old. In SW, age doesn't mean all that much. And Luke is almost 50 in NJO. Still kickin' ass. In fact, an older Anakin would have been the best there could possibly be. Force Mastery beyond Yoda=Insane flippy time. The Force would keep him in tip-top shape; when you've literally got the Force running through your veins, you tend to be pretty good.

And InsaneNoodlyGuy, Kyp Durron would get owned by Luke. He couldn't defeat a single Yuuzhan Vong Slayer; Luke beat seven simultaneously.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus

And InsaneNoodlyGuy, Kyp Durron would get owned by Luke. He couldn't defeat a single Yuuzhan Vong Slayer; Luke beat seven simultaneously.

Oh, I agree completly. But it SHOULDN't have been that way. Kyp Durron was, in terms of raw potential, greater then Luke. Luke said so himself. Did that ever really work for him? No. He basically coasted along when he could have been the greatest. That's why he lost to Jaina, and couldn't be a slayer. Maybe in the next generation he'll have gotten somewhere, but considering what Kyp Durron was set up to be, I found his progress by the time of NJO rather sad.

actaully, about Kyp being more powerful than Luke, I have a theory on that, I think that he is actually weaker than Luke, and these are just some of the reasons I think so: Kyp was just being arrogant and over-looking the facts, thinking he was stronger than Luke. As to why everyone thinks it is true is because Luke does not flaunt his power, no other jedi were around when he did, nobody has seen him fight (now that Jania and Jacen did, they were in awe of his power, control etc), no jedi in those times met the Emperor and Vader etc. Also during one battle, Jaina was sensing all of the other jedi arrive, she felt Kyp arrive, and just mentioned his tightly controlled rage or something like that, then she felt Luke arrive and felt tightly controlled, endless power and calm. No mention of power for Kyp, or indeed anyother jedi, but she sure mentioned it for Luke. Also, Anakin Solo (not Skywalker) was stronger than Kyp, that is unquestioned, but another thing that is unquestioned is that Luke was undoubtedly stronger than him. Interesting

Also about the 'test' Luke did on jedi, pushing on their mind to see how far he gets pushed back by their natural defences, well that may measure uncontrolled force abilities, explaining why Leia seemed less powerful, she had some of her power under control. Also those shields would become more powerful depending on the conditions you grew up in, if you grew up in a safe, loving home with no secrets, you would have no need of powerful force shields. However, if you grew up like Kyp, working hard, under the control of the empire, a slave, you want and need powerful force shields.

So all of those things together would make an illisuion of him being more powerful than Luke, when in-fact he isn't.

Also, when Luke did the trick of moving the black holes that the Vong used, he was tired sure, but could still walk and talk, when Kyp did it he was staggering all over the place and fell asleep almost instantly.

Also, by pure genetics Luke should be stronger than Kyp. Since the force was Anakin's father, Anakin would be around 50 to 75% of the force, Luke being Anakin's kid would be 25 to 50% of the force. Now I lean more towards the high end of the numbers for both of them, Anakin being 75% of the force, Luke being 50%. The only person who could equal them would be:
An Avatar of the force (100% force)
Another Anakin (50 to 75% of the force)
Or one of Anakin's kids (35 to 50% of the force)

There is no way that Kyp could equal Luke, my guess is that he is 25 to 30% of the force, still powerful, but like I said, the only way to get more powerful than that is to be Anakin, or one of Anakin's kids.

All of this leads me to the conclusion that Luke is stronger than Kyp.

Luke is far stronger than Kyp, no doubt. And Darkstar, you hit the nail on the head; Kyp's arrogance led him to believe that he was in fact superior to Luke, who, up until TUF, no one had seen truly fight. And it helps that his head was full of his exploits as Kun's host body.

Yes, knowing that you were possessed by a great sith lord and with him blew up several suns and killed billions would probably make you think you were powerful

Mhm. Especially when you're comparing yourself to someone who seems almost unnaturally passive. . . It's like taking Mike Tyson and putting him in a ring with a Shaolin Monk. Most assosciate the Monk with peace, meditation. Tyson's gonna think he can own this bald Jap, seeing as how he still has his last opponents ear stuck to his molars.

when i said that luke seemed to have very little power i meant so far in the story even tho i didnt mention it. i am only on rebel stand so i still have like 7 books left so apparently he gets way more powerful. i agree that luke seems very weak b/c he doesnt flaunt it. its just like in vector prime when he doesnt fly the asteroid belt. he would no doubt have set the record without problem but the very thing that makes him seem weak is his greatest strength in the end. i am really looking forward to seeing luke show his power.

He pwns. . . and although it, at times, seems overpowered, I think it's fitting.

oh man, if you want to know what Luke can do, just tell me, I got a whole page of info I can post if you want, and trust me, he is a powerhouse with a capital P

I think he wants to find out through his reads. . . here's hint dude. Skip all the books and go right to the last 75 pages of The Unifying Force. You'll get everything you need from the NJO series right there.

im not gonna skip any books but i am really looking forward to the unifying force now. i thought the rest of the series was going to be just as focused on jaina, kyp, jacen and that sort of thing with luke in the background. is there any place i can find a list of all the star wars books ever released. also, are there very many books out that take place after NJO or have they not gone there yet.

Unfortunately, they're already there. "The Joiner King", it's called.

I have heard those are really good. Luke is toned down a lot. I plan to start reading them within a few weeks. If I am thinking of the same books.

Originally posted by fallenjedi
Okay, where to begin. First off: would Anakin have made a contribution?
Of course, but as a senior citizen. NJO is set approximately 25-30 years after ANH(ep4) which itself is set 19 years after ROTS(ep3). Now factor in young Annie's age at the time of TPM(ep1) (6 or 8, I cant remember which exactly, it's been so long since I've watched that POS, besides I'm not even sure they actually say, so I'm just going to say 7). Now, 7+13(the time in years from EP1-EP3)+19+25-30=64-69...I don't care how powerful in the force he is, thats old. Now granted Palpatine was old as sheeaat in ROTJ(ep6), but he wasn't fighting the Vong, and he still got beaten by a half broken Vader. that in and of itself doesn't bode well for the whole "power" issue. Did Vader have more power than Palpatine? Whether it be because of the suit, or simply because of restricted education...I'm going to have to say no. If he had had more power, he would have overthrown the emperor already(it is the Sith way after all). So having gotten what did happen out of the way, let's talk about the what if's. Non dark side Anakin vs. The Vong. Well to begin with, non-dark side Anakin would have grown very powerful indeed, but not in the same manor as Vader. Anakin would have been a balanced "old ways" oriented Jedi(finish the NJO series and you'll understand what I mean by "old ways" engulfed in the Jedi code. This means that he would not have unleashed "force lightning", or "choked" anyone. He would have played it by the book for fear of falling to the dark side and would probably have all of the same hang-ups with the Vong that all of the Jedi in NJO. Except that he'd be old, too old to be the effective fighter that he once was. Therefor. the fight would've been placed on the next generation anyways, which I might add would've been stronger for having learned what they could from Anakin.Anakin's role would be one of mentor, not fighter. He probably would have been martyred at the fall of the academy on Yavin(for those of you who haven't made it that far into the series, I apologize, but It's worth reading for yourself), and that's assuming that events would conspire to even bring about the new Jedi academy. So, yes Anakin would've made a difference, but only in the events, not the outcome. I'm sorry, just a little thing, but I have to correct it.

THIRTY-TWO years before The Battle of Yavin, Anakin is ether 9 or 10 in TPM, add TEN years for the timespan in between and he's 19-20 in AOTC, FOUR years later and he's 23-24 in ROTS. EIGHTEEN years later and he's 41-42 in ANH while the twins are 18, three years later Vader is 44-45 in ESB, ONE year later he's 45-46. TWENTY years later at the start of NJO he'd be 65-66. In Five years time at the end of NJO he'd be about 70-71, while Luke is 47.

It's a small detail but I'm high maintenance.

Originally posted by Tangible God
I'm sorry, just a little thing, but I have to correct it.

THIRTY-TWO years before The Battle of Yavin, Anakin is ether 9 or 10 in TPM, add TEN years for the timespan in between and he's 19-20 in AOTC, FOUR years later and he's 23-24 in ROTS. EIGHTEEN years later and he's 41-42 in ANH while the twins are 18, three years later Vader is 44-45 in ESB, ONE year later he's 45-46. TWENTY years later at the start of NJO he'd be 65-66. In Five years time at the end of NJO he'd be about 70-71, while Luke is 47.

It's a small detail but I'm high maintenance.



wasnt vader exactly 49 years old when he died? im pretty certain he was

Originally posted by Darth243
wasnt vader exactly 49 years old when he died? im pretty certain he was Well that would mean The Phantom Menace happened 45 years before A New Hope, and we all that's not true.

when did they say young Anakin was 9 or 10 in TPM again, and don't get me wrong but the math still holds up. Timeline taken right out of the front of The Joiner King(which by the way is a great read)

TPM took place32 years before ANH

and yeah Dooku was old as dirt... he also got beaten

I got the 32 years thing off the back of the DVD cover. And the 9-10 is sensible becasue it's 10 years difference, so he HAS to be at least 19-20. Plus, no 6-7 year old talks and acts like that.

Dooku was like 80 something...Palpatine was in his 90s or so by ROTJ.

Anakin's Age Timeline! Gasp!

- TPM - 9-10 years old

- AOTC - 19-20 years old

- ROTS - 22-23 years old

- ANH - 41-42 years old

- ESB - 43-44 years old

- ROTJ - 44-45 years old

I could be mistaken about the jump between ANH and ESB.

First off, I didn't say 6 or 7. I said 6-8.Also, the kid that plays young Annie WAS 7 whan they bagan filming, and turned 8 during production.

Your close, it's three years in between them. And it's 18 years in between ROTS and ANH. That I'm certain of.

Yeah, it was 3yrs between ANH and ESB. And Palp had the advantages of clones and consciousness transfering(Dark EmpireTPB).

19yrs between ROTS and ANH. But close.

23+19=42, so I was dead-on. But yeah, ESB and ROTJ were one off, I always confuse it between 2 and 3 years difference. So Vader was 44-45 in ESB, 45-46 in ROTJ.

Anakin being 9 in TPM was a popular number, has been since 1999.

Originally posted by fallenjedi
Yeah, it was 3yrs between ANH and ESB. And Palp had the advantages of clones and consciousness transfering(Dark EmpireTPB). Going by all the books, and the OT, the Stormtroopers by the time of ANH were all men, actual people who were recruited or volunteered, and they were brainwashed at the academys to believe that what they were doing was right, to never except a bribe and so on...

Not clone troopers. Clones of himself in secret cloning vats on Bith, as well as a few that were spread throughout the galaxy, just in case.

Oh, them.

Ya gotta hand to him, he was pretty smart.

Palpatine didn't use the clones until after he kicked the bucket at the end of ROTJ. And that was Byss.

He is likely in his late 50's by TPM, making him in his late 60's by AOTC, so he was around the late 60's or early 70's by ROTS. Add about 20 years to that, plus the nearly 5 years between ANH and ROTJ, and we have the nearly 100-year-old twisted Emperor.

In Dark Empire, Palpatine says he kicked the bucket once already, but that completely messes with continuity, so Lucasfilm came in and said he was just trying to convince Luke he couldn't be killed.

Let's say Palps was 57 by TPM, add 43 years (time in between to Dark Empire) he'd be 100 by the time he comes back with the Eclipse.

See what I'm wondering is: How can they say it messes with continuity when he said he'd learned how to not die, then he even takes the steps to ensure that he'd be able to do it via cloning? Seemes to me that these events hold alot better than... say, Anakin bieng the SW's version of Christ.

Yeah you're right about Byss. Been awile since I'v read DE. Bith is where Sy Snootles and the rest of the cantina players are from.

Or was SY with Max Rebo at Jabba's?

Bith is the species of the cantina players, they come from Clak'Dor IV or VI.

Sy was with the Max Rebo band. Figrin D'an was the Modal Nodes cantina players.

Tangible, good call. But, then again, only his spirit is that old. *shrug*

Damn. I'm impressed. Is that from memory, or do you have a reference guide handy?

Memory. I have no life.

Sorry to hear it. I'll trade you any day of the week.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Palpatine didn't use the clones until after he kicked the bucket at the end of ROTJ. And that was Byss.

He is likely in his late 50's by TPM, making him in his late 60's by AOTC, so he was around the late 60's or early 70's by ROTS. Add about 20 years to that, plus the nearly 5 years between ANH and ROTJ, and we have the nearly 100-year-old twisted Emperor.

In Dark Empire, Palpatine says he kicked the bucket once already, but that completely messes with continuity, so Lucasfilm came in and said he was just trying to convince Luke he couldn't be killed.

Hm. I though he was 65 by ROTS. Meaning that by ROTJ he'd be, oh, 84 or so, around Dooku's age in ROTS.

Then again, there is the common fan theory that he is an ancient being himself, and that it was his facade as Palpatine that was melted away by his powerful lightning, not his true face.

And the Dark Empire series should never have occured. Completely takes away the meaning of Anakin's last act, his sacrifice. And just the fact that someone should completely cheat death, not once, but twice, is maybe even three times, is just stupid. Even worse is that he comes back with power that can destroy a star fleet.

what, you don't think he already had that kind of power before ROTJ

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Hm. I though he was 65 by ROTS. Meaning that by ROTJ he'd be, oh, 84 or so, around Dooku's age in ROTS.

Then again, there is the common fan theory that he is an ancient being himself, and that it was his facade as Palpatine that was melted away by his powerful lightning, not his true face.

And the Dark Empire series should never have occured. Completely takes away the meaning of Anakin's last act, his sacrifice. And just the fact that someone should completely cheat death, not once, but twice, is maybe even three times, is just stupid. Even worse is that he comes back with power that can destroy a star fleet. I agree. The whole storyline is decent enough, but it's the whole return from the dead that drives people away from it.

Though Palpatine's body was destroyed, his mind and whatever twisted soul he had lived on. Yet, how could he possibly have gained power while in a state of suspended hibernation. Exar Kun was in the same state when he drained the Massassi, and he was there for 4000 years. Palps was there for 7, Exar should've come back as more powerful than any being that ever lived if that is the case.

Originally posted by fallenjedi
what, you don't think he already had that kind of power before ROTJ

He didn't. . . Or he would have utterly wasted the Rebel forces on his own.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Hm. I though he was 65 by ROTS. Meaning that by ROTJ he'd be, oh, 84 or so, around Dooku's age in ROTS.

Then again, there is the common fan theory that he is an ancient being himself, and that it was his facade as Palpatine that was melted away by his powerful lightning, not his true face.

And the Dark Empire series should never have occured. Completely takes away the meaning of Anakin's last act, his sacrifice. And just the fact that someone should completely cheat death, not once, but twice, is maybe even three times, is just stupid. Even worse is that he comes back with power that can destroy a star fleet.

Agreed. The Dark Empire series might have had its moments, but it should never have happened. Hell, Palpatine said that he had died prior to ROTJ, but Lucas thought that was too much and stepped in to explain.