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OK, despite some other views on posting reviews on AOTC, I still feel this is the very place to discuss AOTC and therefore I started this thread.

queeq's review:

I saw it last night and one thing was very clear: a lot better than TPM. The plot is very good, though I doubt non-SW fans grasp the extent of the plot yet because of the wayt it's been told.
The Clones are wonderful and the fighting Yoda very enjoyable. Lee is outstanding as Dooku, too bad he had so little screentime. The film has lovely subtleties (like Dooku being very tired after fighting Anakin), in the fights it was clear (despite all the chaos and mayhem) who the baddies and goodies are. So well done there this time again. I love the clones, they are a lot cooler than the Stormtroopers we are familiar with.
Portman looks beautiful, Anakin looks very cool (I like the dark clothes and the already very Vader-like style of his robe) and Ewan rocks.

Now the downsides:
I think the story lingers too long to get exciting, that is probably what some people call boring. The last hour is great though, but the first lingers and lingers a bit, causing us to loose OB1's detective story a bit.
The love story is not very convincing. I found many scenes accceptable, but the fireplace scene is absolutely horrible. For me it's problematic that GL combines a whining and complaining Anakin with the love scene... it's just not very convincing why...oh...why Padme falls in love with him. The successions of scenes of pretty choppy here and there. The Love Pledge right before the Arena scene is pretty good though.
I dig the CGI Yoda, but I do find GL has been overextending his CGI again. The water on Kamino looks very fake, so do many animations of jumping or falling characters. Anakin on the Shaak's back is almost a disgrace: not only is the scene a bit awkward but it looks terrible too. But also the CGI people have been modified jumps and falls throughout the movie and it shows. The apple eating scene with Padme also looks fake when she takes a bite...
THe Kaminoans look beautiful, but it's very cartoonish though.
The Clones looks excellent though and the attack ships are lovely. I also very much like the detachable hyperdrive engines of the Jedi starfighter.

It's nice to see the heroes separated again so we have simultaneous storylines. THe only thing is that when Anakin's on Tatooine, OB1's on Geonosis. And when there's a wipe from Anakin speeding to find his mother there's this wipe to a rock and only when it tilts all the way down I realised we were not on Tatooine anymore. They looked very much alike.

In general I find two major errors: the love story takes too long and is unconvincing. The stay on Naboo was just too much of a side track and the scene with Queen Jamilia and the democracy-nonsens said there quite superfluous. It worked in the book, but not here. It'd had been wiser if GL had made them fall in love enroute to Naboo where Anakin would have had a few dreams of his mother. That's caused him to change to another ship or something to travel to Tatooine, or take the ship immediately from Naboo to Tatooine. We didn't need all that. It would have sped things up.
The other error is that I find it very troubling that the Sidious-Palpy connection is STILL not made. If it had been clear from the beginning then the film would have had much more tension, the viewer would realise the Jedi are walking unknowingly into a huge trap. That still has to wait until EpIII. GL is breaking major suspense laws here.

A few more comments: I find it a bit too much inside information on the whole. I really missed the Jocasta-Nu Dooku speech and one or more scenes about Dooku. And just teh showing of the Death Star as ultimate weapon could have had more explanation. The threat would be be experienced bigger when you realise the have the technology to destroy ENTIRE PLANETS and that that's going to Sidious who is also now the Chancellor with emergency powers... All that emotion and tension is lost. I think it's very bad that viewers have to wiat till EpIII (two movies!! () to find out who Sidious is. SW fans already know and non-fans have no clue what's going on and seem not to care much either, thus maing the film a bit boring.
So it's suffering from the same problems as TPM: basically a good story but told in such a way with too many subtleties that a lot of the story eludes non-fans.

Nevertheless, I will be seeing it next weekm, because let's face it: there is a LOT to see!!

I need to see it again to get all the parts clear , first time out what can I say besides extremly dissapointed. First feeling is that it is by far the worst SW movie and epIII cannot go anywhere but to the better. AND YET AGAIN I WAS BUGGED BY ANAKIN
IN TPM it was the "are you an angel" in AOTC it was"It is all Obi-Wans fault" bad bad bad acting if acting at all.
On a dice I`ll give it a two under doubt and then I am nice and gives credit for that it is after all SW

TRue. I'm not sure if I am really disappointed. I liked the second half better than all of TPM, but the first half.... well.
Hayden does allright here and there, but it's consistent all over. It works at some places and at others it just doesn't. He's good with the sabre though.

All the lightsabre battles were great. Dooku thought he was gonna lay Obi Wan right out with the force lightning and Obi Wan didn't flinch. Cool !

And we had dialogue during the fight!!!! YIPPEEEEEEEEEE.

I think thats always important. Then you can get a better idea of their feelings. Looked to me like that little bit of Force Lightning that Dooku used on Anakin hit him a lot harder than the Emporer hammering on Luke for 20 minutes. Luke snapped right back.

But he wasn't slammed into a rock wall.

Point taken. Luke just fell over some garbage cans.




But Dooku was a lot more powerful than what I expected. I was impressed. Wish Lee would have had more screen time. And a good fight with Windu.

Lee was great and so was SLJ and Ewan, Natalie well maybe she was supposed to be kind of cold, like women sometimes are . Never happened to me though

I agree. They should have introduced him and his reputation earlier in the movie. The moment he came on, the atmosphere of the movie changed.

That I will agree with.

You're too good to be true.

I've talked to some sw-fans who can't stop talking about what a genius GL is, after watching AOTC. Come wednesday I'll see if it's that good.

You have to wait till wednesday? You should count your blessings!

You'll love it mah.

the first part is realy not good at all.......i must say that i wasn't quite as i expected. Some of the dialogues were compleetly childish...especialy some of obi's replies like: i hate it when he does this...
Anakin...well.......he's god damn evil......already.
P.S. for the first time in sw...i felt sorry for watto.......i liked him before...this time he was...i dunno...respectfull....The atmosphere in Tatooine changed..it was sad...( well...we know why...not spoiling anything) I still like Padme a lot...but the acting was not that impressive...same 'bout Hayden.

You big moaner, queeq! I thought the understated Death Star reference was spot on. I think it would have been criminally clumsy to also say "Oh yeah, did you know this thing can blow up planets as well?" A reference like that would have ruined it!

Absolutely!

I loved it. It did start out a little slow, but Padme's quote, "I've dead a little every day since you came back," was beautiful. And then there was Yoda. As soon as his cane was heard clicking around the corner after Dooku cut off Anakin's arm the entire audience went wild because we knew exactly what was coming. I loved it when he caught the force lightning and when he pulled out his lightsaber so confidently and somber just the way a Jedi master would've I went nuts. Lucasfilm turned something that could've been comical and unbelievable and made it amazing. My friends and I are still talking about it. As for Hayden's acting I think that could've been better but he's gorgeous in this movie so I'll forgive him. Obi-wan has always been my favorite charachter and he stayed true to form in this movie. Thank goodness for Ewan McGregor. The Death Star made a friend of mine get this look of elation on his face and he could hardly keep from jumpin up and down.

One question. Why did Luke get a flesh hand and Anakin got a gold hand?

Well, aside from any comments about relative technologies...

...let's not forget tht Anakin has hardly had time to get a full job done. He either got that on Geonosis or Naboo; it miught even be an emergency job.

i think that the technology is not fully developed yet. 25 years later, luke gets a full skin covered bionoc hand.

the entire story was good but i havve two main things i didnt like:
1) haydens acting skills are no where near exceptoional
2) natalies character wore much more revealing clothes then the last episode.

But the one thing that definitly made the movie was the tiny body of Yoda fighting dooku

I saw it again today.

There is NOTHING wrong with Haydens acting. It's perfect for the part.

BTW, ya'll; it's MUCH better the second time. I caught a lot more stuff.

Nah, I agree that Hayden's acting was a bit off for much of the first half of the film.

SOME people like the more revealing clothes you know, LE...

I absolutely loved it!!

Portman looked hot hot hot!

I hope in EpIII she gets to wear something like Leia in ROTJ, the Jabba's palace oufit to be precise.

well, he had some strange acting thingies...

I talked with FireMaster who was in the same room, same time etc. while seeing AOTC...

he said the negative things were:
-love story too long (I agree, when you finally get some action they're already heading to Geonosis)
-no space battle (Slave 1 and Starfighter!!! in the end battle, now THAT would be full and too much)
-Quotes misplaced, the "I have a bad feeling about this", but I totally disagree with that! that phrase is in every movie, and a lot of the chars say it!

I was waiting for "I have a bad feeling about this" the whole way through. Obi Wan got to say it in TPM so I figured it would be Anakin this time.

Ush - you are absolutely correct about the DS reference. It was "just enough". A brief comment and a 3 second shot of full size blueprint on the wall panel was all it needed. Just to whet the appetite, nothing more.

The best scene in the film, IMHO, was the distant shot of Anakin obviously gathering informatio from the Jawas at dusk, 3 huge sandcrawlers parked, one open with the harsh light from inside but with the images of Anakin and the Jawa completely dark and the duel of the fates in the background. That scene just totally grabbed me by the throat. You could feel Anakin's desparation at this point...his anger building to what you knew would be a shattering crescendo....just INCREDIBLE !!!!!!!

I liked his dialogue when he describes the Tusken Raider encounter to Padme, ".....not just the men, the women and children too......", oooooh it gave me the willies!

They were animals ! And I slaughtered them like animals !

You can really see Anakin's emotions just totally ripped in half in that scene. Padma is like "whoa....who is this person ?" The dark side is taking him one totured piece at a time. Brutal, really. This was a very important scene. And in the Lars garage no less where we would later see Luke vent his own emotions, albeit not to that extreme.

If I was seeing some girl and she admitted something like that in the manner that he admitted it all excited and evil, I would have ran a mile - not marry the freak!

But the fact that he is willing to defy the code....she sees that as true love.

Chicks just love rebels don't they Gundy.

To be honest, out of all of them, I would have been all over Qui Gon. (God, Ush will hate me for that comment...)



That fact that Anakin clearly SAID that he blamed Obi Wan for holding him back and not the council...you know by the time they have their infamous battle...his anger toward his Master will be all-consuming.

that's your job if he's like a father to you

I would've fallen for Obi-wan but he would've rejected me for the sake of the code. Damn code.

Obi Wan close second. In my dreams.

I would've fallen for Padme!

Always that damn code...but even Qui Gon disobeyed the code from time to time. Anakin is just blatantly ignoring it.

I'll hate you... why?

Here's my AOTC review:

I thought AOTC was a great movie. Despite what many critics have said, I didn't think the acting was all that bad. Also, the first part of the movie was not boring. And all of the battles in the movie were great, especially the duel between Dooku and Yoda. Overall, I would give the movie a 9 out of 10. It was much better than The Phantom Menace and is definitely worth seeing.

I gotta admit, some of it just didn't seem Star Warsish, that whole Coruscant scene looked like it came right out of anime!

The soundtrack was ****IN' AWESOME. When Zam Wessel was getting into her speeder, all those drums going, gave me a few shivers.

Ush - because Qui Gon is your favorite....just pulling your leg, old boy !

I thought John Williams did a great job with the soundtrack. The Imperial March tacked on at the end was perfect !

yeah soundtrack was allright

It was way better than the OT's, so much darker and fuller.

Nothing beats the OT

Nope, this ST is way better, it's got that 7th chord, it just sounds beautiful.

All the Star Wars movies have great soundtracks.

I really like Duel of the Fates.

Duel of the Fates is one of my favourites after the Imperial March.

Dual of the fates is fantastic!!

It's too bad they only used Duel of the Fates for one short scene in AOTC.

I loved how they blended old ones with new ones in this film.

Yes, that was good.

John Williams was also incorporating Luke's theme into some of Anakin's scenes.

AOTC was overall a very good movie. It wasn't classic Star Wars, but that's ok...it can now make a name for itself!
The fight scenes were fast and furious and totally nice
The acting was ok, but the actors themselves were HOT
The character development was good.
The plot was a bit chaotic; I believe people should see the other Star Wars movies first.
There was appropriate humor and lots of allusion to the other films.

BTW Yoda was awesome.
I can't wait until the next movie!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm sure I'll see this one several more times in the theatres and then buy it on DVD.

7th chord jedimercenary ?? You a musician ?! cool !
I just saw Talking Movies on BBC and this critic dude had a complaint ( which quite a few other critics seem to share ), that
he got confused with the plot because of all the different characters and their history ... so that if one was not a Star Wars fan and didn't know the background, he wouldn't understand a lot of things.

Now I don't think thats something you can hold against the movie ... because this has become a story much in the manner of Lord Of The Rings ... it requires you to be have some knowledge of the characters and their history to fully appreciate it.

Yes, I am a musician.

What instrument(s) do you play?

Cool JM ! I'm a musician too ! I play the piano ... I'm mainly into jazz / blues / alternative. That kinda stuff ! What instrument do you play ?

Well, right now I play bass in a band called DrugKnuckle, but throughout my high school and College years, I played trumpet in Jazz band.

Wow !
cool !
I'll PM you and carry on this conversation there ...

Well, back on topic, I think this movie puts a whole new light on that galaxy far, far away.

Hayden Christiansen was amazing,
Natalie Portman was great,
Ewan was cool,
Temura Morrison was even cooler,
Christopher Lee was scary,
and Yoda made me want to be 2 foot tall and green.
Lucas is a genius. 10 out of 10.

I liked it too..can't really see why the critics are bashing some of the things they were..it's like they didn't even bother to really watch the film. Not that Im saying it didn't have any problems...but it's definately entertaining.

Critics are idiots. The don't even like films. If you go to a site like rotten tomatoes then you'll see that some critics haven't liked any film that they've reviewed.

Sounds like KJ loved it as much as I did. I'm going for round 3 on thursday night !!!!!!!!

Critics just don't understand the SW universe, they're idiots!!

I agree. I loved AOTC...hung on every word. Screw the critics. You're either a fan or you're not. I'm sure George is used to being bashed by now.

It was frickin awesome.

Well, some critics are just ****in dumb. Ebert said " A love story between Padme Amidala and Anakin Skywalker with more regret than chemistry", Doesn't he see that that's suppose to be happening?

I judge movies for myself. I couldn't care less what critics think.

I watched the Ebert and Roeper show the other day and Ebert said that he finally had a chance to see AOTC on both types of screens and he said it is much better Digitally.

I can't wait until the DVD comes out.

I know. It is gonna rock. HARD!

I'm planning on having my widescreen HDTV by then.

I'm gonna see AOTC this Wednesday, right after school.

The soundtrack rules. Song #13 (The Duel and Credits) is my fav. Song #12 (The Arena Battle) is my 2nd fav. The Love Theme is 3rd.

Out of all the Star Wars themes, Duel of the Fates, The Love Theme, and Imperial March are my favorites.

What ceitics seems to forgett when they claim the story is flat, is that this is a movie for kids and it aint supposed to be complicated. At least 10-11 years old are supposed to understand and follow the story. Critics treat it like an "grown" up movie, this is were they fail. Gonna see it for a second time Thursday, and I must say the film has grown on me. Disapointed right after the movie but now I had some time to think it over and I really look forward to see it again, now that is a good sign.

I can't see how any major Star Wars can be disapointed by AOTC?

It's quite sad reading all these bad vibes towards aspects of the film.

Don't worry there aren't many negative reviews.

I knew basically everything that was going to happen but it still suprised me. That's how great it was. Like in the opening scenes when the ship is about to land. I was sitting there waiting for it to blow up and when it did I still jumped.

Obi Wan's conversation with the Kaminoians when he first met them....."that's what I'm here for" He's so cool. And then when he went to meet Jango Fett....not a lot of love lost between those two for sure.

I don't think Boba Fett liked him much either.

Thats for sure. Boba had a scowl on his face from the moment he opened the door until Kenobi left. I'm sure Jango taught him to "trust no one" .

Especially if they are carrying a lightsabre.

I liked the scene where Anakin sits at the table in the Lars home
- in the same spot as Luke sits in ANH
- Owen in the same spot as he sits in ANH
- Owen asking the same question: "Where are you going?"

That send shivers up my spine.

I have some difficulty seeing the unity between the PT and the OT though. THe PT looks very slick, a bit too slick I think. The two don't seem to match very well.

Anyway, I was disappointed with the CD of the soundtrack, not by far the best soundtrack so far. Very UNthematic. And then I saw the film and hate Lucasfilm for taking out many good bits. Guess we suckers fell for it again and we'll soon be buying an ultimate edition.

Owen isn't on his ANH spot, Cliegg is sitting there now

Yep.

Really? Oh right.... Beru's on Owen's spot. Sorry. Little mistake. Still lovely scene though.

well, the scene fooled me too at first, and might I saw...it was RED milk

queeq, didn't Beru ask Luke where he was going, not Owen?

Yes Beru did.

But Padme did bring Anakin BLUE milk in the garage before he told her what he did to the raiders.

What did you think of ob1 in it.. I think he was a good master to Anakin. Anakin has always whined..he even did to Yoda and Mace WIndu in ep. I when he asked "what does that have to do with anything" and he also showed anger towards them when Yoda/Windu explained

Yeah that was a fav moment in TPM when Anakin gave Mace Windu an evil look in the Council room.....

The local press in Norway gave AOTC great reviews, they actually got the point about SW being adventurous action films FOR KIDS, NOT ADULTS, so they had completly opposite reviews than the national press (Two major papers in Norway and TV)
Actually Norwegian tv channel TV2 had two different reviews the first one ( a woman) didnt like it but she said she never liked SW, the other one gave it a 6 out of 6.
Most press in Norway uses a dice on their reviews on films, books, football matches, pc games and so on.
The biggest paper in Stavanger( my hometown) has a 10 point system and actually gave SW a 7 which is rear since this critics seems to like non american and english speaking movbies best

I've finally seen it, yippee!

first acting: there has been some critisizm of hayden christensen's acting, but I thought it was very good. he has a somewhat strange way of talking sometimes but he's like that in real life too so. natalie portman: I think I'm not too biased, , when I say that she actually was great, I couldn't see any wooden acting.
all the others did well as usually. that boba kid is cool!

the special-effects were great, some stuff didn't look that great, but most parts were superb.

everything else was goody-goody, I loved everything from the chase through coruscant to the love scenes (they were actually very interesting IMO) to the final battle. fantastic stuff when you see all those Jedi igniting their sabres and hacking and slashing their way. yoda kicked ass too, of course.

all in all a smashing new SW-episode from lucas.

9/10

sounds like a good movie, I might go see it again.....

Glad you finally got to see it mah. I guess that just leaves poor Lance who hasn't seen it yet.

My brain is going down.... Yes... so..... the one sitting in the seat opposite to Anakin/Luke was the one asking the same question... At leats I found A parrallel.... *hides in shame*

And me ! poor ol' me ...

it was so much better the second time around. I could lean back and enjoy it. i wasnt even that bothered by Haydens acting either.
And Qui Gons voice was so clear. "Anakin ANAKIN", but I doubt the nooooo part was his voice though, sounded more like Anakin himself. Loved the emperor music/theme when Dooku was about to meet his master.
I gave it a two out of six last time around, after the second time I rise the stake and give it a five. Loved all the jedi fighting at the arena.

wow!
I did feel that I was too caught up in thinking about what I saw to enjoy it fully, but I assume it'll be better next time.

There's a lot to absorb the first time.

Obi Wan's trick of emptying the spare parts compartments and hiding on the back of that asteroid to make Jango believe he had been destroyed reminding me of Solo floating away with the garbage in ESB.

There is so much going on in that arena sequence. It will take like 10 viewings to see everything.

But once you get the DVD it will be easy to see everything, just go frame by frame.

I saw it last Wednesday!

I noticed something: the soundtrack says that the last song is "The Duel with Dooku and the Finale," but in the movie it should be "The Aftermath and the Finale." The last song plays while Dooku and Sidious chat, Ob1 & Mace & Yoda chat, the clonetrooper army loading onto the ships, and the wedding.

I had a lot of reminders of the OT in this one:

1. Seeing the Death Star hologram
--a reminder of whats to come
2. When Ob1 attached his Jedi Starfighter to the asteroid
--Han attaching the Millennium Falcon to the Star Destroyer
3. When Anakin and Padme, and the droids, look off into the sunset
--When Luke and Leia, and the droids, look off at the "Solar System" (that's what it looks like) as the Millennium Falcon goes into hyperspace.
4. C-3PO saying "I've never been on a starship before."
--C-3PO saying "I just remembered how much I hate starship travels!"
5. C-3PO saying "R2 says he's received a message from a man named Obi-Wan Kenobi. Does that mean anything to you?"
--C-3PO saying "R2 says he's carrying a message for a man named Obi-Wan Kenobi. I seriously don't know what he's talking about."

there were a lot of linking with ESB I thought , the hiding trick by Obi Wan (Han Solo on the Star Destroyer), the cutting of Anakins arm (Lukes loss of his hand), the love sene before the arena( the love scene between Han and Leia before they froze Han). Astroids, man I can wait until next time I see it but I have to check my calandar first

Right now I think it's the best film I've ever seen.

Oh, and Ob1 telling Elan Sleazebaggano to go rethink his life.

Elan sounds kinda like Krusty the Clown.

I SAW IT !!!!! YESSIREE BOB !!!! JUST FINISHED SEEING IT 10 MINUTES AGO.

The first thing I want to say is, there's so much happening in it, and there has been so much attention to detail that has gone into making this movie, that one viewing is definitely not enough to get everything that's going on. So maybe I'll post again, another review after I've seen it the second time with a more analytical eye ... right now I was just trying to enjoy it as a kid, without trying to analyse it.

Having said that, here goes :

Firstly, I think all the critics who have panned it, must have some ulterior motive in doing so ... because nobody in their right minds could call this a bad movie ... maybe some people might TOTALLY love it and some may like it a little less than others ... but what is indisputable is that this movie KICKS ASS !

Secondly, for me, this movie ( and the same goes for Phantom Menace ) does not have the same vibe as the movies of the original trilogy. I find it difficult to find a word other than "vibe" : I mean it in a subliminal sort of way, such that it includes the general feel ... the "smell" ; the original Star Wars movies were fundamentally different in terms of "vibe" as compared to the prequel Star Wars movies ... which is really not a strange thing ... because it's a different era ... the principal actors are from a different generation ... Lucas is not the same person that he was 20 years ago ( most of the times, no man remains the same his whole life ) etc. and all these factors combine, to make the new SW movies just " different " in their vibe from the old ones ...
I really can't put my finger on specifics ... its just a subtle " something "; like I said its subliminal ... these movies just " smell " different. BUT ... AND THIS IS THE IMPORTANT POINT I WANT TO MAKE : THAT IS NOT A BAD THING !! Because the vibe that the new movies have, is GREAT ... so why should it matter if it is not the same as the old ones ? Like I said, the time WE live in is not the same as 1977-82 ... the world is different ... and lot of the people who have worked on this movie on a NUTS AND BOLTS level, including lot of the principal actors are from a newer generation, so they bring to this movie, the spirit of THIS generation, THIS time ... and its not the same as the spirit of the old movies but it's GREAT .... for one thing, its much darker in feel than the OT movies. Personally, I wouldn't WANT to see these three new movies to be made to feel the same as the old ones ... because that's already BEEN done, see ? What's the point in trying to repeat something that's already been said, and said VERY WELL 20 years back ? It SHOULD be that creative works, at whatever level, reflect the SPIRIT of their times ...

Going to back to dark ... this movie in terms of sheer darkness of tone and feel is much darker than ESB ( which was the darkest of all the movies of the OT ). In fact, it's got an oppresive sense of doom and foreboding overhanging it throughout ... so much so that the few and far between light, and humourous moments ( consisting most of the times of the interaction and exchanges between Obi Wan and Anakin ) are appreciated even more than normal, because of respite they bring.
And that, is Lucas' principle success with AOTC ... this movie HAD to feel dark, and HAD to leave the viewer with a feeling of apprehension, foreboding, and a sinking feeling in his heart, uniformly throughout the movie ... inspite of all the humour scenes, the love aspect, and the mindblowing action in the last 40 minutes ... because it is a period of darkness that the time period of this movie encapsulates ... a period which marks the beginning of the fall to darkness of a once prosperous and happy galactic republic on the large level, and a good and positive individual on the specific level. Almost throughout, I felt a dark feeling of hopelessness ... a feeling that the dark times are inevitable ... the master dark lord is in control, at the centre of a huge web of evil and deceit ... his plans are well laid, and the empire of darkness is spreading its wings inexorably and unstoppably ... the success of the evil one is inevitable ... and the good guys can't even see where and how its coming from ... I felt the hopelessness of the feelings in the heart of the jedi ... they can see and feel the darkside slowly gaining control ... and they are utterly unable to ascertain where, how and who. The Phantom Menace indeed !!

Now about Hayden's acting. A lot of critics have criticized it ... and I think they are being totally mean and unfair. Because he did a great job with the character of Anakin Skywalker. Not an easy job, Anakin is a complex character ESPECIALLY at this stage of life, which happens to be probably more complex than any other stage in his life before and probably after ... the death of a mother, and feeling of guilt associated with that death ... the love of a woman, who he has loved since early childhood, and which he cannot pursue because of the jedi code ... the self-confidence and strength within himself, because of his exceptional powers and abilities, which morph into arrogance and cockiness ... which mutate into feelings of resentment against the closest friend and father figure he has had because of OVER confidence in the extent of his abilities ( exceptional as they may be ) ... feelings which aggravate a fundamental weakness in his character ... a tendency to fiery anger ... and inspite of all this ... still at the core, a childlike innocence, sincerity and goodness, as portrayed by Jake Lloyd in Episode 1 ... that is a LOT of baggage to carry, and Hayden does a GREAT job ... Marlon Brando he may not be ... but his effort is commendable and praiseworthy ...
Just some of the scenes that have stuck in my mind after the first viewing ... when he and Obi Wan are interrogating the bounty hunter after Obi Wan has cut off her arm ... when his expression suddenly changes and becomes ferocious ... the inherent anger in his character jumped out and hit me ... and suddenly ... the likeable, good young man, Anakin was gone ... I was looking upon the face of Vader without the mask ! Ditto with the scene when he's telling Padme of his murder of the Tusken's ... his demeanour and expression change from tears and frustration to pure anger and hatred ... when he delivers the line " They are animals and I killed them like animals " .... it was pure evil in the character that I felt at that point ... Anakin the good and positive was suddenly gone ... there was Vader. Similar, if not so intense, in the ending battle when Obi Wan and Anakin are pursuing Count Dooku, and Padme falls out ... and Kenobi and Skywalker have a heated argument about whether to stop and go back after her or not ... for the first time ... we see the young padawan ( who upto that time, despite whatever arguments happened, or whatever frustrations he felt, always treated his master with a basic affection love and respect ) behave with his master with feelings of real hostility anger and antagonism, quite strong in their intensity.
Just a few of the scenes, among many others, where I was really impressed with Hayden's acting. I wonder how some people have mistaken his monotone style of delivery as wooden acting ... in fact, thats one of the things that make one feel truly, that the person they are looking at is Darth Vader ... that's precisely the way Vader sounds in the OT. Its a major plus point in his acting effort, which lot of people have criticized. A
The same goes for Natalie Portman. Her moment to shine happens when she declares her love to Anakin on Geonosis before the battle scene. It got me in my gut, and that was because of the her manner of delivery.
To criticize either or both these actors of wooden delivery, is in my opinion a travesty.

Ewan Mcgregor, Samuel Jackson and Christopher Lee, each shone ... especially Lee. However, one person that has stuck out in my mind is Ian Mcdirmid. His portrayal of Chancellor Palpatine / Darth Sidious, was masterly. Man was he sinister, dark and scary ... in fact, I think he bears a large part of the responsibility for the overall feel of darkness and apprehension that I felt watching the movie throughout. He IS scary, especially when you know who he really is ( i.e Palpatine=Sidious )

Another major criticism that has been levelled at this movie, is that is moves too slowly in the middle ( that it is boring ) and the love story aspect fails.

Now as for the first, it is not that the movie moves slowly in the middle ... at that point, it is the foundation and outline of the plot vis-a-vis the impending story thats been laid down. To maintain the action filled pace of the beginning ( assasination, second assasination attempt, coruscant chase sequence etc. ) throughout the movie, into the end battle sequence would be boring and meaningless. There has to be a plot, a story, some meat and potatoes, such a foundation, on which the climactic ending is based ... and also it gives the full impact of the final battle. If the same pace had been maintained throughout the move, it would have become dull and common place.

Secondly, the love scenes were NOT cheezy and boring ... Hayden and Natalie share a great chemistry on screen, and they way they play their characters, it feels great to see them do their thing, and there is a certain poignancy about this love story, which I find really cool.
Just one complaint about Yoda vs. Dooku. I wish they had shown Yoda beating Dooku more decisively . Although he was nonchalantly able to hold his own against sith lightnening and other sundry force tricks, still in the lightsabre battle, he did not overwhelm Dooku as much as I would have expected to see.
Dooku while on the defensive throughout still managed to hold his own, before escaping. I wish they had shown Yoda totally overwhelming Dooku in the sabre battle, before Dooku making a lucky escape by the device of dropping that huge thing on Obi Wan and Anakin.

So I guess thats that for now ! Make no mistake guys, Star Wars is BACK ! In spades ... ditto mr Lucas, and thank you mr Lucas, and the rest of your team !

Combining the acting direction storyline special effects etc. I want to say, this ones a lot better than Spider Man ... Its now an hour since i finished seeing it, caus it took me a better part of the last hour posting this. And I've hardly said all I want to say.
So ... I guess I'll just go watch it again ! There's much more I wanted to say, but I'll reserve it for my next post, because this one has become really big and besides, I need to see it again to catch all the little nuancies and subtleities which I've missed.

So pretty soon, and I'll have posted another thread, in which I'll discuss the movie more in details.

Ciao for now !

I'd say he liked just as much as I did.

I read the short version of harmax reply : gundarks post

am I right if I think you saw it in a "certain" way?

there are actually people with different view on things than you have.

yerssot you are so damn lazy.

I agree with a lot of what Harmax said. By the end of the film I had something of a feeling of desperation, like, everything was starting to fall apart and crumble at the edges. The glory of the republic was dying. I know exactly what he means.

Yeah I got that too, like the peace and tranquillity the jedi order had helped give the galaxy was about to lost to darker times. I LOVE IT!!!

Palpy is my leader, palpy is my leader, na-naa-naa-na, na-naa-naa-na!

Everyone who loved it, vote for it at IMDB.com. It only had a score of 7.9 the last time I checked.

Just one problem that I had with it was the clash between Yoda and Dooku ... it was great ... just that, in the lightsabre part of the duel, Dooku, although put on the defensive, did not really appear to be overwhelmed. Now, first he tries to attack Yoda with force lightening, and hurled objects etc.etc. All that fails to ruffle Yoda, so he says " This contest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the force... " and he ignites his sabre. All I wish is, that he was shown to be really well and truly overwhelmed and defeated in the lightsabre duel that ensued ... which did not happen, and which I expected would happen from the spoiler reports ( although as I said, he was put on the defensive completely by Yoda ). In fact, the ending of the duel where Dooku drops that large object on the prostrate forms of Obi Wan and Anakin, and Yoda has to turn away from Dooku and concentrate on holding up that large object ... at that particular point, I felt ... why did Dooku flee ? I mean, Yoda was completely occupied in holding up the object with the force ... Dooku had the oppurtunity to quickly attack and destroy Yoda ... it would have been rather difficult I think, for Yoda to hold up the object AND defend himself simultaneously.

Now obviously ... such a situation should never happen, and that is what DOES happen, in fact, in the movie. I felt that was one weak moment.

BTW Yerrs : I obtained a bootleg camera print in VCD format ... I realize that is hardly the way to watch this movie ... and that the effect is not even half as much as one would get if one saw it properly in the theatre .. but I didnt want to wait till the 7th of July, while everyone here is discussing and analyzing the movie in depth. And furthermore ... my having obtained a bootleg, will not stop me from seeing it atleast 4 times at the theatre when it does release here. The thing is ... if I enjoyed a camera print with bad sound and video on my computer monitor ... when I see it in the theatre ... well ... I dunno ... I think it might just make me stop smoking ... hehehe

Perhaps Dooku knew it was time to leave while Yoda was occupied with the falling column because he had the DS plans on him and he had to get them back to Sidious. And/or Dooku may have been worrying about the chance of Obi Wan somehow getting back into the duel. Highly unlikely, I know - but note after Dooku took off and Yoda Force-pushed the column away from the injured Jedi, Obi Wan didn't seem to have that great a difficulty in getting to his feet, despite his injuries. Anakin was obviously sidelined with the missing arm, but Obi Wan could have been Force-throwing objects at Dooku while he was lying there to help Yoda out.

Maybe ... but my point is ... I wish they had shown Dooku really badly overwhelmed and beaten ( almost as badly as Obi Wan and Anakin ) .... and just about barely able to escape ... whereas, although he WAS put totally on the defensive ... he was still able to hold his own ... and escape with relative ease.

Point taken. Dooku did not seem to getting away by the skin of his teeth so to speak.

Yeah he had to protect those DS plans, but I got the feeling he was on the defensive against Yoda and actually gave up saving his own ass.

well he's a chicken.. just look at the saber he uses...

it was never his intention to fight!

well he asked for it driving of like that

For a start, there is NOTHING wrong with Dooku's sabre which was the best yet!

Secondly, Dooku was not being overwhelmed by Yoda at all; it was an even match- Yoda went super agressive (unsurprising, considering his height) and Dooku simply went on the defensive. If the fight had gone on longer, Dooku would have either slipped up and been killed or waited his chance to strike and killed Yoda, but there was nothing to choose between these two sabre masters from what we saw.

As it was, though, escape was his main priority, what with the huge army coming his way, and there was no point risking his life just because he might get a chance to kill Yoda. He was a sensible man and his task was done.

Why didn't Anakin get up anyway and help out Yoda? His sabre was still there. Luke was still quite mobile after his hand was cut off. He could jump, fall, land, hang on an aerial. Anakin just lay there....

He's a big girl.

Actually, that level of shock after losing a hand is far more believable than Luke's hijinks.

Anakin lost more of a limb than just a hand. I would have thought Obi Wan would have been more help than Anakin.

Yoda should have been shown totally acing the count ... " The end for you this is, count ... " ... and then dooky should have been allowed to escape because of that falling column trick or whatever.

If the battle HAD gone on though ... Yoda would have killed him sooner or later. I can't imagine Count Dooku being able to kill Yoda ... no no no no no.

Why not?

It just shows that Dooku was stronger than the jedi, I think it was a good idea to have him get out unscratched, then you think, " How are they gonna beat this guy later on??".

Dooku's sabre resembles the handle of a vaccum cleaner!
It's his sail that I want!

I'm glad that the Viceroy got away!! He's just so diabolically hillarious!!! Hope he's back in EPIII!

its necessary for anakin and the jedi to get kicked by DOOKU in this episode. Anakin will fight DOOKU in ep3 in order to become the SITH apprentice of the Emperor "I forsee that you will become the greatest of all jedi"..shows well that EMP has his eye on him from an early stage..this relationship will be developed heaps well in EP3 i imagine!

rock on!

l8ers

first time sucks pretty damn big
the second time it's much better

I really liked the movie. I thought Hayden and Natalie had VERY good chemistry. But the WHOLE romance thing kinda got to me. When Padme was "queen" how old was she??? like 20(or more?)??? and When Aniken was a pod racer he was like...what...9??? so after 10 years that leaves Aniken at about 19 and Padme at around 30 or older. I dont care WHO he is/u are if u knew him when u were already old enough to be his mother u should NOT get involved! Im glad there was SOME sort of a romance and besides the age thing i LOVED the rest of the movie!!! that just bugged me a lil bit. I knew it was going to happen as soon as the 2 of them met but somewhere in knowing and actually seeing i got a lil bit discouraged. Oh well...thought it was GREAT anyway!!! OH!!! and NOTHING could beat the yoda fighting scene!!! even if the WHOLE movie was bad seeing it multiple times was SO worth it JUST for that ONE scene!!! i LOVE YODA!!!(in case u couldnt tell)

Padme was 14 as Queen. The age difference is only five years.

I don't buy the concept of Yoda being unbeatable. I think Anakin will even reach the level of being better than Yoda. The hints are already there in AOTC. And if Yoda was unbeatable, he would have beaten Anakin and Palpy. He is NOT all powerful. Anakin and Palpy together are... almost.

The only character, that I would accept ( and that too with great reluctance in my heart ), beating Yoda, would be Darth Sidious. Thats it. But definitely not Darth Sidious's bloody apprentices, and none of the other Jedi either. And not Count Dooku. He may have grown more powerful than 99% of the Jedi ... but not more powerful than Yoda.

I disagree. I believe Anakin will be MUCH stronger than Yoda. There are three hints:
1. Higher midi-chlorian count
2. OB1's suggestion that if Anakin would practice with his sabre more, he would be better than Yoda
3. Palpy says he's becomeing the greatest of all Jedi. Now I know you can say it's a lie to tempt him, but for one, Palpy (and Dooku) mix a lot of truth with a bit of lie, and second why would Palpy be interested in him if Anakin were not exceptionally strong.

Ok ... firstly, a minor point ... Obi Wan made that comment as a sarcastic reprimand to Anakin ... that he was too flippant and cynical ... that is, if he were to spend as much time on his lightsabre skills as on sharpening his wit, he'd be a better swordsman than Yoda ... in other words telling Anakin that he was too smart alecky for his own good.

Now Anakin IS exceptionally gifted and unique ( highest midichlorean count etc.), no doubt about that. With the proper guidance and training and attitude, and with age and experience, he would have probably become a Jedi master as great if not greater than Yoda, but he doesn't recieve the training and guidance of Obi Wan with sincerity and humility ... he balks at the discipline that Obi Wan is giving him for his own betterment and progress, because of an arrogance and overconfidence having developed within himself because of his exceptional abilities, and because of a really short temper that he is unable to control.
So the thing is, we never actually see Anakin reach the full heights he had the potential to reach as a JEDI master ... because, in a very short time after the time period of AOTC, he falls to the dark side of the force, for the rest of his life ... until the very end, where he comes back to himself, and destroys Darth Sidious ( which is why I like to believe that Anakin Skywalker, the Jedi, was more powerful than Darth Sidious ).
But like I said, he never achieved his ultimate potential as a Jedi, so I don't think Anakin the Jedi ( before his fall to the dark side ) ever became so great, as to be greater than Yoda ...

the question, therefore, is whether Darth Vader, lord of the Sith, in HIS prime, at his best ( or worst depending on how you look at it ) was more powerful than Yoda ... and I don't know ... because I don't know how powerful exactly, Lucas will portray a young Darth Vader.


As for Palpatine, of course he's interested in Anakin, because of his unique gifts and power ... and especially because he notices the wayward and emotionally unstable part of his personality, which makes him ripe for being swayed by the dark side ... and the prospect of having one with the highest midichlorean count of all the jedi, as his apprentice and enforcer, would have probably made Sidious salivate. He sees a weakness in Anakin's excessive pride in himself, quite unfounded, because for all his gifts, he's still an inexperienced boy with many things yet to learn and a long way to go ... and also his growing lack of patience with the training and discipline being imparted to him by Obi Wan ... so he begins his " attack on Anakin " by playing on those aspects ; " You don't need guidance Anakin ... " , " I see you becoming the greatest of all Jedi ... " etc.etc.

The thing is, just because he says that doesnt mean that he actually DOES become the greatest of all Jedi ( something he had it in him to achieve ), because long before he can realize his true potential as a Jedi, he stops being one and becomes Darth Vader ...

therefore I say, Anakin never becomes as great or greater a Jedi master as Yoda, although he could have, because he spends the prime and most powerful years of his life as a sith lord.

Therefore the question : Is Darth Vader more powerful than Yoda ?

I think he will be. Dooku wasn't a greater Jedi than Yoda, yet the green goblin couldn't defeat him. I think Anakin will be the greatest of them all, but I doubt he'd ever meet Yoda in a fight.

The only question is whether Anakin is better than Sidious; until we have an accurate idea of Sidious' power it is difficult to answer but I remain convinced that Vader treated the Emperor as a superior being throughout the OT.

I'm sure Vader respects the Emporer's power because he has seen and experienced it firsthand during and after his turning to the Dark Side.

Maybe ... the thing is, this is a character whose sheer force potential is greater than any jedi ( highest midichlorean count );
there's of course the theoretical point that Darth Sidious's midichlorean count is not known ... but just putting that aside for a minute ...

He is exceptionally strong with the force; now :

Case 1 : He wields the power of the force for good, and expresses the force through the good / light side.

Case 2 : He uses the force negatively and to do evil, and expresses the force through its dark side.

The way I like to think of it is, in Case 2, Darth Sidious is his superior, because Darth Sidious's mastery of the dark side and its expression is unmatched ... in other words, he's the master sith lord; or, to put it another way, the most superior sith lord. Darth Maul, Darth Tyrannus or Darth Vader ... none of them have achieved the same mastery over wielding the dark side of the force as Darth Sidious; that's why they have all been his apprentices. Of the three, in my opinion Darth Vader is obviously the most powerful, by virtue of his sheer raw force potential and exceptionally unique powers, but even he is not as great a SITH LORD as is Darth Sidious, who is on another level entirely, when it comes to mastery over the dark side. It also implies, that Darth Sidious cannot be destroyed by another sith lord, or by anyone who would want to fight him using the dark side, i.e. anyone who WOULD want to defeat Sidious would firstly have to be exceptionally strong with the force, but furthermore, importantly, would have to use the LIGHT side of the force to beat him, because if it came to a contest of dark force tricks, Sidious is unmatched.


But Case 1 is a different matter; here its not a case anymore of a contest between who's the most powerful sith lord and who has achieved the best mastery of the dark side. Here Anakin, the one with the strongest raw force potential, is wielding his strength with the force, through the light side of the force, and for good and positivity. In this case I believe, he is stronger than Darth Sidious, i.e. Anakin wielding the light side of the force has the power to overcome even Darth Sidious, operating through the dark side, and who is almost invincible and furthermore, Anakin is the ONLY one, of all who use the lightside of the force ( i.e. the jedi ) who is powerful enough to overcome Darth Sidious. In that respect I suppose he achieved what even Yoda couldn't.


This is just my theory of course, and it does have many knotty points in it. Not very difficult to find weaknesses in it, but I feel it does have some merit. We've already been through a similar discussion a few months ago, and I was hoping AOTC would clear a lot of these points, but now I guess we'll have to wait till Ep.3 for these clarifications.

In any case, of one point I feel very sure ... Count Dooku is definitely NOT the equal ( and definitely NOT the superior ) of Yoda ... whether it's sheer strength in and mastery of, the force, or lightsabre duelling skills or whatever ... except, maybe if it was a contest to get a date with a human female ! Even there, I think, after having seen Yoda in action in Episode 2, he would rate higher in a pole amongst the ladies as to who they find more attractive between him and Dooku !

Hmm, over seperation of Light and Dark 'powers' there.

I think the "raw powers" that Sidious posesses will be more gruesomely displayed as ascends to the the throne of Emporer. He has control of the Senate; he has the clone army; all that is left is the destruction of the Jedi. And they're not going down without a fight of course.