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I hate it when people say ob1 screwed up! He didn't. It had more to do with anakin being to old and already to much anger in him. ob1 should not be blamed. Yoda even thought the council would have screwed up. why else would they themselves not train him. It would make no sense not to if they knew they would have succeeded. Yoda is to loved. everyone i know hates ob1, so all i have to say is. GO OBI-WAN

Regardless of the logic of the situation, it is part of GLs plot for Star Wars that Obi-Wan DID mess up. He even says so himself, in ROTJ. The trick is not to blame ONLY him- it was a group failure.

Do the people you know really hate Obi-Wan? Weird.

I blame yoda more.

Can't see how, based on what we know Yoda was against Anakin being trained but was out voted by the council.

Because if he was going to be trained why didn't he put in the word saying " i dissagree with anie being trained, but if he is going to be trained let the council do it" THEY WOULD HAVE HAD A BETTER CHANCE.

Well, for one that wouldn't fit with the master/padawan model and for two how do we know he didn't try that tact and was voted out on that too.

Yoda was but one of twelve, therefore he must abide by the mojority vote.

I'm not saying Yoda or OB1 are right, but we can not make assumptions based on information we are not privvy to.

OB1 DID mess up. So far he has little going for him, which I regret. But that's fact. Anything really positive about OB1 must come in the next two epsiodes. In ANH he lies, in ESB he is alright I think, in ROTJ he admits his lies and failure in training Anakin and in TPM he cares little or nothing for 'lesser' creatures.

He wasn't lying. From a certain point of view (which reminds me... I wanted Obi to use the 'point of view'line in TPM,and he had the feed from Qui-Gon and everything! Never mind).

I like Obi-Wan. His failures are only too human, and in not telling Luke about his father he probably saved his life.

So its agreed that obi made plenty of mistakes, but then made up for it in a very big way also. With out obi, where would the story of gone...

So with only 2/3rds of the info we have all ready to judge OB1. Well bravo everybody!!!

Sorry to sound judgemental myself but we still DO NOT know what motivations will be driving him in ANH. Yoda didn't tell Luke either, and he had AMPLE chance. Has anyone ever considered that NOT tell Luke is a calculated condition that is placed upon him?

Yes he was disparaging of "more strays" but he was very young, can anyone out there remember being young and foolish and making bad decisions. He was still a Padawan, not even a full Kinght when he made those statements. Think about it a little huh?

I'm ready to let this play out first before giving a firm opinion on the subject I think.

Very good point RatCat. Maybe it is/was to early to make assumptions and judgements until we know more. But once we learn the truth, we can bust on him.

Ok ok, I agree with u guys, but we can't blame ob1 for all of this. it was the bad jugement of the council that let him train him, HE really didn't want to, it was a promise to Qui-gon jinn. He wasn't ready, if any other jedi of his inexperience with training people they would have mesed up to. I think yoda and the council should have ttrained him

In my opinion what happens is ob1 trains anakin alright but not good enough through episode II. then In episode III ob1 starts wisening up and starts to train him right, but it is too late. Who would be able to train him good besides yoda and the council, and besides I have never really accually heard of any jedi not being trained by yoda or the council. I think ob1 doing that was the first time

I think when we get to see an adult Anakin in action we will come to realize how things were never really in OB1's control and how he was as much or more a pawn of this as anyone.

You never heard of a jedi not being trained by yoda or the council phinny? How about Obi?

I think phinny6 is saying that he believes initial training of young padawans is carried out under the direction of the council before they are assigned a master to work with to gain "life experience"

Ratcat u are very right about what i ment, but u are the only one i have not heard an opinion from, so could u tell me your opinion first, please. What i ment by saying " i blame yoda " I ment the council first. And No I still don't think any jedi knight could train an older jedi like anakin, so full of anger that he was.

He is if you consider he is his Master and therefore responsible for his actions. I know we only had 2/3 of teh saga going here, but it IS 2/3, 66% of an entire saga. As I said, so far he has little going for him. I do certainly hope we will see a strong and wise OB1. Qui-Gon thought he was, now we have to see it for ourselves.

Maybe ob1 gets a little cockey, and don`t seek help in training Anakin, with the aid of Yoda they might,together, kept Anakin away from the dark path.

You guys are right it is to early the judge him, thanks anyway for your opinions

obi-wan was probably the best choice for training ani. It was his masters dying wish that ani be trained so dont you think he had more reason to succeed than any of the other jedi?

Well, I don't quite see the direct connection there. I think personality clash may be a problem; Obi-Wan has a fiery personality and was well served by the calmer Qui-Gon. Having a hothead teach a hothead could be problematic.

But Obi-Wan has clearly changed by ANH. So we'll have to see how well he's developed by Episode II. Maybe he's already started to be like his old master.

Now i ask what are your thoughts of ob1, do ya like him do ya hate him do u really care for. Please tell me your thoughts

Oh, I love him. In obth 'incarnations'. I don't understand why he has taken so much flak.

Cool, He is my favorite character in the series, and I believe he isn't the mess up we believe, he is theonly one to acuaally was trained by a jedi knight, all the rest were by the council

Yeah, in my opinion Obi-Wan is the best of the PT Jedi Knights. He must have a lotta skill, after all, only he and Yoda survive. And plus he trains Luke(the greatest Jedi of all time) so that makes up for a lot.

hm well u knoe wut

obi wan is the most to blame of anikan's fall
i truly believe this because, he himself felt danger of the boy as did everyone else in tpm, and yet he still trained the boy. not only this but while training anikan he most likely saw anger in aniakn and he should ve stopped the training but an unwise obi wan decided to continue. he truly is the blame of anikans fall
and thats y i despise his character

Thats a little harsh. I blame Qui-Gon more than anyone else. QG was like a father to Obi-Wan and your telling me that if your dying father asked you to do something you wouldn't do it? Obi-Wan did it out of obligation. We have come to learn that Old Ben hid the truth, maybe it was someone else's fault(Padme?) and he took the blame to protect Luke. "Hey Luke I didn't do anything wrong, blame your mother, its all her fault." That probably wouldn't have gone over to well.

But I like Qui-Gon more... Qui-Gon's plan worked IN THE END, let's not forget that

True..and that is the most important point..

well it was qui gons fault as well
but i mean obi wan MUST HAVE seen anger in anakin in his training
and should ve ended the training

also when obi wan did accepted to train anakin

he still should'nt of
even thou his own master asked him too
cuz he was a jedi and a jedi should make his own move by his instincts

Yeah, but even accepting all that, I can't hate him. His mistake was all too human, and most of us would have done the same; if you see what I mean.

In E:1 Obi-Wan tells Qui-Gon that he would be on the council if he didn't disagree with them so much, so maybe he did see anger but he did not want to admit that he was wrong.

I think Qui-Gon interopreted what the others saw as anger as something else. Either that, or he thought it was an obstacle that COULD be overcome. Either way, it is doubtful that he missed it, or was stupid enough to ignore such a threat, even if he did want to spite the Council.

I think that QG should have been left out of TPM. He didn't really serve a purpose. I think that Obi-Wan should have been a Jedi at the beginning, but oh well.

In the first draft, Obi-Wan was the foucs. Qui-Gon only turned up at the end as an 'old friend', who then getskilled by Maul. To the tradionalists amongst us, the immedaite centralisation of Obi-Wan as the hero (and also in his mid-thirties, which made more sense) would have been great.

However, I think the transformation of Qui-Gon untop the foucs was a great idea. Liam Neeson played the role brilliantly, it gave a Jedi counterweight (so the main guys could actually talk to each other on a level playing field), it meant Qui-Gon's death had emotional resonance, instead of just being a dead charactcer... and of course, most of all, it set up the fundamental reason for Obi-Wan's eventual failure- a dying promise to his master.