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Okay I just remembered a forum on manga stream stating that Sasuke could take on the whole Konoha 11 by himself. Also that Naruto could more or less do the same thing while using Sage mode. So I just want to see how they do.

However I want to set it up in 3 scenarios in order to see the interesting result that come out of them.

This is Sage Naruto and MS Sasuke(Danzo fight) against the Konoha 11. In all 3 scenarios the Konoha 11 fight them all at once.

Round 1: Sage Naruto fights the Konoha 11.

Round 2: Sasuke fights the Konoha 11

Round 3: Sasuke and Naruto fight the Konoha 11 together.

So who wins?

Round 1: Konoha 11 more likely than not. Naruto only has 5 minutes, which might get reduced due to Shino's bugs. Neji's Kaiten makes for a good defense if Naruto tries taijutsu and he only has two shots of RS. Then again, he is faster than everyone except possibly Gates Lee and can make clones to weaken the number advantage. Still, Ino is in a position to take over his mind long enough for Sai to seal him if he needs to.

Round: Arguably does worse or better. Worse because he does not have as much stamina, clones, or chakra sensing to keep track of everyone. Better because he has flight, hax defense, and in general is better at his base mode than Naruto is. He also has faster attacks, like his arrows and Amaterasu, and can save genjutsu and Chidori for the noobs. Still, Ino/Sai combo is hax and I doubt Sasuke would target them first since, well, they're not as big(lol) a threat as Choji, Lee, Neji, Sakura, etc.

Together they would win though. Apart both share a decent change, with me just giving the slight edge to the Konoha 11 due to Shikamaru being in a position to make a strategy(since I doubt either team would target him first).

questions, is Sai included and can Naruto summon?

@ Aura: Shino's bugs would die if they chakra leeched, would they not?

Konoha 11 so yeah. Just replace Naruto with Sai. I assume that is how it's supposed to go.

And yeah, probably. Still draining his chakra though.

another question: how many clones does he have in reserve?

Naruto has some other techs. He can do a water blast or oil fire blast at Shino's bugs. Naruto can also go kurama chakra mode (no tails) to blast away the bugs, as well.

Round 1: Naruto kills most of them in less than 2 or 3 seconds. However, Neji and Lee are strong enough and fast enough to avoid death (Naruto doesn't even have to touch them to deal a killing blow...his frog fu has super strong "blasting" effect that is enough to hurt Nagato's paths). Neji also has an ultimate defense which was supposedly better than Gaara's. I don't see Naruto getting the drop on Neji in Sage Mode. Lee would not be able to exchange ANY blows (no homo) with Naruto because it was result in Lee being seriously injured or death. So, I'll go with Lee just dodging as long as possible until SM wears out and Neji and Lee finishing him off once SM is gone. Still, it's a close call. I can change my mind if I read some good arguments on how Naruto can win.

2. Sasuke solos, easily, with Susano'o.

3. Sasuke solos, easily,with Susano'o.

Originally posted by marwash22
another question: how many clones does he have in reserve?
Naruto can have the reserve amount he had during the Pein invasion, which is about 2 to 3 clones.

Although I'd personally argue Naruto could do better w/o reserves considering it only takes him a few seconds to enter Sage Mode. He can also summon though I'd argue against it since it's not his strong suit and can't really afford to waste any chakra.

Sai's also included in Naruto's place just to clear that up.

How does Sasuke easily solo? Wouldn't he have stamina problems and have to deal with Choji/Lee?

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
How does Sasuke easily solo?

Originally posted by dadudemon
...with Susano'o.





Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Wouldn't he have stamina problems and have to deal with Choji/Lee?

If we assume CIS and PIS are off, then Sasuke goes into "insta-activate" mode for his Susano'o. He then proceeds to destroy them all with his arrows or punches. If Neji does his spinny thing, Sasuke can just pick him up and throw him, lol.


Gaara is a good matchup against a Susano'o user because he can manipulate the ground the user is standing on via his sand.

The Konoha 11? They are screwed.

Originally posted by dadudemon
If we assume CIS and PIS are off, then Sasuke goes into "insta-activate" mode for his Susano'o. He then proceeds to destroy them all with his arrows or punches. If Neji does his spinny thing, Sasuke can just pick him up and throw him, lol.


Gaara is a good matchup against a Susano'o user because he can manipulate the ground the user is standing on via his sand.

The Konoha 11? They are screwed.

Well I though he'd just use Amateratsu instead of resorting to Susanoo off the bad.

This reminds me of another argument on Mangastream, wish they still had their forums, that Shino could deal with the Susanoo or something

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Well I though he'd just use Amateratsu instead of resorting to Susanoo off the bad.

This reminds me of another argument on Mangastream, wish they still had their forums, that Shino could deal with the Susanoo or something

Can Shino?

Cause I don't think it's possible unless you are Gaara and already had a grip on Madara or something, lol.

But, yeah, Sasuke should easily be able to solo if CIS is off.

i echo what DDM said, Naruto kills 'em all (excluding Lee and Neji) within a few seconds. Naruto can Summon the big toads and gather all the chakra he needs while they deal with Neji and Lee... then, if it's even necessary, Naruto can resume fighting.

Kiba may also b fast enough to evade Naruto's initial assault, but I'm no sure.

Neji's Rotation is not holding up against someone who tosses thousand ton Rhinos like baseballs.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Neji's Rotation is not holding up against someone who tosses thousand ton Rhinos like baseballs.

Where's your evidence to support that conclusion?

I could go all physics on you and state that a thrown kunai traveling at speed, with the sharp point hitting dead on (perpendicular to the spherical "plane" of Neji's rotation shield) produces far more PSI than a punch from Naruto's super strength Sage Mode fist.

You will definitely need this, now:

http://www.jordanpfowler.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Prep-H.jpg






The best Naruto would do is knock the ball around (I mentioned this already from Susano'o) OR deflect Naruto's punch (most likely what would happen) "fluid kung fu" style.

What about a kunai held by Naruto traveling at full speed and backed up by his own physical strength?

This is all ignoring Naruto's substantial speed advantage, who is to say that Neji can get a rotation going before Naruto, say, comes close to punching him?

Also, stop being a pompous ass without being provoked. Or are you just butthurt against me for some reason? Or maybe you just have a really unfunny sense of humor?

pompous ass is DDM's base mode. Provoke him and he powers up to pretentious toolbag mode.

Originally posted by NemeBro
What about a kunai held by Naruto traveling at full speed and backed up by his own physical strength?

I have not see Frog Fu use kunais nor have I seen Naruto use kunais as a stabbing object in sage mode.

The only way I've seen Neji's ultimate shield from working is if you stop Neji, himself, from rotating to make it (spiderwebbing was used to slow him down).

Originally posted by NemeBro
This is all ignoring Naruto's substantial speed advantage, who is to say that Neji can get a rotation going before Naruto, say, comes close to punching him?

I say it: Neji's speed was a 4.5 at the beginning of the Time Skip. That's the same as greats like Jiraiya and Kakashi. Hardly slow. He has the same speed rating as Lee and Sasuke, man.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Also, stop being a pompous ass without being provoked. Or are you just butthurt against me for some reason? Or maybe you just have a really unfunny sense of humor?



That's just my own sense of humor. You were supposed to get a laugh out of it and say, "lol! DDM, you goofy bastard.". I had no idea that you'd get butthurt over it, man. SORRY!

At worst, I thought you'd reply back with your own hilarious comeback.


Unless of course, that was an attempt at a text-based deadpan humor (Like, "Dude...my mom is dead." Then when the other apologizes profusely, you laugh at him)? If so, you got me.


Just yesterday, Demonic Phoenix and I were making fun of having sex with eachtother's moms and wife...just to show I was totes joking.



Originally posted by marwash22
pompous ass is DDM's base mode. Provoke him and he powers up to pretentious toolbag mode.


estahuh

Originally posted by dadudemon
Where's your evidence to support that conclusion?

I could go all physics on you and state that a thrown kunai traveling at speed, with the sharp point hitting dead on (perpendicular to the spherical "plane" of Neji's rotation shield) produces far more PSI than a punch from Naruto's super strength Sage Mode fist.

Didn't Naruto pretty much beat Neji's rotation with a single punch without even going 1-tails?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Didn't Naruto pretty much beat Neji's rotation with a single punch without even going 1-tails?

Neji didn't get full rotation mode, iirc.

If he did, Naruto just blasted away Neji's rotating chakra with his own causing an explosion which launched both of them.


But, when they "touched" chakra cloaks, Neji did not appear to be in full rotation mode, yet. Go check out that fight, again, and you'll see the panel I'm talking about. It's questionable on whether or not he got full rotation.

I'm not seeing anything suggesting he didn't get off a full rotation. Though if he wasn't able to get one off then his speed with it is pretty shit considering Naruto was running at him in full view and had time to shout out a few sentences.

In the cases of unclear panels we must turn to the anime:

1zgSCYpjwi8

I'm not seeing it being half-powered or anything. No body mentions it anyway.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I have not see Frog Fu use kunais nor have I seen Naruto use kunais as a stabbing object in sage mode.

... You're arguing that he can't use a kunai?



Why? Neji's chakra is finite, as are his physical abilites, and IIRC he has never rotated for long, why are you assuming it is unbreakable?

Why assume that something that relies on finite attributes to create is infinitely durable?

It's a No-Limits Fallacy.



Naruto in Sage Mode is much faster than either.

Hell, you yourself said that Naruto's blitzing of Asura Path Pain was the greatest demonstration of speed in the manga (At that point).



I honestly had no idea if you were joking or not, that is why it bothered me. Most people I can tell when they are joking, I can't really do that when you do it.

Originally posted by NemeBro
... You're arguing that he can't use a kunai?

... You're arguing that he'll employ a kunai?



Originally posted by NemeBro
Why? Neji's chakra is finite, as are his physical abilites, and IIRC he has never rotated for long, why are you assuming it is unbreakable?

1. Show me where I claimed Neji's chakra is infinite.

2. Show me where I claimed Neji's physical abilities are infinite.

3. Show me where I claimed Neji can rotate for long periods of time.

4. Show me where I claimed Neji's shield is unbreakable.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why assume that something that relies on finite attributes to create is infinitely durable?

Show me where I claimed that Neji's shield is infinitely durable.

Originally posted by NemeBro
It's a No-Limits Fallacy.

Ah, now we're getting to the good stuff. The no-limits fallacy is ALMOST being committed by you, actually.

You're implying that Naruto's SM strength is enough to break Neji's shield. One what grounds? There's no limit to Naruto's strength against a finite shield, eh?




Originally posted by NemeBro
Naruto in Sage Mode is much faster than either.

Prove it.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Hell, you yourself said that Naruto's blitzing of Asura Path Pain was the greatest demonstration of speed in the manga (At that point).

It's more joking fanboyism on my part than a serious contemplating and calculation of speed feats. The greatest speed feat, by my admission, was the final showdown between Naruto and Deva Path because it is literally the only quantifiable speed feat in Naruto based on an IN manga stopwatch (naruto counted down from 5 seconds). Something that rarely happens in comics or manga (instead, we get silly claims by character inside of the manga).

I did another speed feat calc based on Lee's foot falling from his limp body: it was the one that had Guy coming in and dispelling Gaara's sand from dealing the killing blow against Lee. I measured it based on his Lee's pre-time skip height as a function of pixels to stated height ratio. Lee's foot was shown falling down, while Lee was on his side. The next image showed Guy stopping the sand. So we can say, at a minimum, what Guy's speed was based on the size of the room and the time it would take, under g, to cause Lee's foot to fall to the ground and for Guy to bridge the gap between Gaara and Lee during that time.


Some people on the internet were claiming that the speed of Guy in that situation was hypersonic. That would make it the single greatest speed feat in Naruto...

However, I proved that it does not need to be ... sonic? Can't remember. But that might be the only other "objective" speed I could find in Naruto.



Additionally, and more on topic, I already stated that Naruto can take out the entire team, minus Lee and Neji, in 2-3 seconds.


Originally posted by NemeBro
I honestly had no idea if you were joking or not, that is why it bothered me. Most people I can tell when they are joking, I can't really do that when you do it.

I am unsure how a image posted that implies you need to apply ointment to your aching anus because I just raped your anus (or hurt it in some way), can be taken as anything but a joke.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not seeing anything suggesting he didn't get off a full rotation. Though if he wasn't able to get one off then his speed with it is pretty shit considering Naruto was running at him in full view and had time to shout out a few sentences.

In the cases of unclear panels we must turn to the anime:

1zgSCYpjwi8

I'm not seeing it being half-powered or anything. No body mentions it anyway.

I was not talking about the manga. There are multiple differences between the manga and anime fight between Neji and Naruto.



I'm talking about this:

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v12/c104/10.html

Neji does not appear to be in full rotation, yet. He even states, "oh no" and starts to say the move with wide "i'm about to get raped" eyes.


Edit - Just watched the vid. It's even worse in the anime, actually. It doesn't look like he gets any rotation (the tech, not just spinning) in at all. He turns around maybe once.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I was not talking about the manga. There are multiple differences between the manga and anime fight between Neji and Naruto.



I'm talking about this:

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v12/c104/10.html


http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-crossarms.gif

So you're not talking about the manga, you're talking about the..... manga? Did you mean anime? Because thats what I meant. I saw nothing to indicate he didn't manage a full rotation in the manga so I posted the anime to clarify.




Yeah, I'm still not seeing it. Imo this proves that Neji's 'Ultimate Defence' isn't so much.

Originally posted by Nephthys
http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-crossarms.gif

So you're not talking about the manga, you're talking about the..... manga? Did you mean anime? Because thats what I meant. I saw nothing to indicate he didn't manage a full rotation in the manga so I posted the anime to clarify.

That's obviously a mistake and clearly the context of my post shows exactly what I meant. yawn

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, I'm still not seeing it. Imo this proves that Neji's 'Ultimate Defence' isn't so much.

I'm seeing it. Consider that every other still shot that shows Neji's shield up shows it in full rotation and that one doesn't. Consider that the anime also makes my case even more.

If after considering this information, you still conclude that Neji was in full rotation going all out with his Heavenly Rotation tech, then we will never agree. I don't need to convince you, however.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'm seeing it. Consider that every other still shot that shows Neji's shield up shows it in full rotation and that one doesn't. Consider that the anime also makes my case even more.

If after considering this information, you still conclude that Neji was in full rotation going all out with his Heavenly Rotation tech, then we will never agree. I don't need to convince you, however.

If I'm understanding you correctly you're saying that because we can actually see Neji's body instead of just a blur that he was what, not rotating? Because he isn't drawn as spinning that he's not? It doesn't prove anything. We know that he did manage to spin and that he did create his rotation shield, but you're suggesting that because we can see him that he wasn't going very fast or that he couldn't, um, spin enough? What makes you think that he needs to 'charge up' his spin in order to get to full power? Earlier you said that he only seemed to spin once. How many spins does it take to create a 'full-power' rotation? I'm not seeing any evidence here beyond your own speculation.

Originally posted by Nephthys
If I'm understanding you correctly you're saying that because we can actually see Neji's body instead of just a blur that he was what, not rotating? Because he isn't drawn as spinning that he's not? It doesn't prove anything. We know that he did manage to spin and that he did create his rotation shield, but you're suggesting that because we can see him that he wasn't going very fast or that he couldn't, um, spin enough? What makes you think that he needs to 'charge up' his spin in order to get to full power? Earlier you said that he only seemed to spin once. How many spins does it take to create a 'full-power' rotation? I'm not seeing any evidence here beyond your own speculation.

I think my point is very clear, this time.

Ever single other time Neji uses that tech, it is the spheroid looking thing. That time? No. Every single other example in the manga says you're wrong.

What makes me think that?: the images in the manga that show that. But there's also the video you posted which further supports my point.



But just a few pages back, you can clearly see what a complete version looks like:

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v12/c104/5.html

Look at the 3rd to last panel: Neji is slowing down to catch the shuriken and his "shield" looks like the same form as it was when Naruto clashes. Clearly, Neji didn't have time to get the tech fully up and running before Naruto clashed with him.


So it is not as though I'm just randomly selecting which panels I use and which I don't.



Let me make it clear that you cannot "convince" me. I know it is pretty much impossible to change your mind once you've made it up and I'm not interested in doing that.