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Superman gets a breathing device, and then both of them get thrown, under water.

Um...I think he is able to trade punches with Superman for minute or so, but eventually Superman would win. Namor has nearly instant healing factor on sea, though. But Superman is just stronger and faster, and since he fly's throught the use of self-telekinesis, he probably can manouver well in the water. But he can't use the freezing breath, though. And water is Namor's turf...I don't know, maybe Namor can win 2/10.

Hmmmmmm... I'd still go with Superman, but he'd have a fight on his hands.

From what you told me from, Namor he is Bad butt, and is king of the sea. Superman can't fly out the water. the match is in the water. I don't know how well hecould move, but does Namor have any shooting ability.

Originally posted by Logan 87
From what you told me from, Namor he is Bad butt, and is king of the sea. Superman can't fly out the water. the match is in the water. I don't know how well hecould move, but does Namor have any shooting ability.

He can discharge electricity. I think he can do it one time, then he has to absorb electricity from somewhere to get more.

I really think, Superman could loose this, when hes in the water. Out of the Water i think Superman wins, but in. If Superman isn't angry at anything, I think he is going to get beaten.

How far away from the sun are we talking here?

Mariana's Trench?

Superman 9/10 on land or air 5/10 if hes in water. Im not sure if he can still fight good underwater but this can go either way.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Mariana's Trench?

In water Namor wins 8/10. Out of water Superman wins 7/10.

If they fight in deep, deep underwater, Superman's powers constantly degrade as he doesn't get any sunlight...and Namor's powers constantly grow as he spends more time in water. That gives him a edge.

Namor wins the majority in water.

Superman wins all the time. Namor could beat Hulk in the water because he was stronger than hulks base level, hulks manouevrability compared to Namor is poor especially in water. Supermans strength is immense and is far in excess of the low level class 100 that is Namor. As pointed out because of the nature of his flight capabilties Supes isnt restricted in water as the hulk was and he can even move faster in water than Namor who is limited to a swimming speed of 60 mph.

Supes wins very easily.

Superman wins this...IMO without much difficulty

Superman wins 10 out of 10, in or out.

Superman in water can still fly and is still too strong for Namor and too much tough, maybe fighting really deep into water, where it's all dark and so, for 1 or 2 days will rend Supes weaker, but can Namor last 1 or 2 days against the Man Of Steel?No.
Even underwater Superman is too fast for him.
Once Aquaman tried to rescue him catching him for the cape underwater, Supes thinking AM was trying to kill him reached the sky over the sea in one second or less flying so fast AM realized he was grabbed by the neck from Supes only when they stopped in mid air.

Superman wins

But Namor in water is bad ass also, he will put somewhat of a fight but, when it comes to power , etc superman will outclass him.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Um...I think he is able to trade punches with Superman for minute or so, but eventually Superman would win. Namor has nearly instant healing factor on sea, though. But Superman is just stronger and faster, and since he fly's throught the use of self-telekinesis, he probably can manouver well in the water. But he can't use the freezing breath, though. And water is Namor's turf...I don't know, maybe Namor can win 2/10.

Superman also doesnt need a breathing device for this battle.
It would only last a few moments, and he can hold his breath long enough to traverse the universe.

If Namor is in the water here, does he get his artifacts? Trident and Armor?

If so, Namor wins 8/10.
If not 50/50. Would Superman be able to survive the deepest part of the ocean?

"Superman wins all the time. Namor could beat Hulk in the water because he was stronger than hulks base level",

Savage Hulk wasent operating at calm levels even underwater. Namor on water punks because he can mantain his full strenght all the time.

"hulks manouevrability compared to Namor is poor especially in water."

Every character not water based has more movements problems underwaters than the water ones. Theres always an edge.

"Supermans strength is immense and is far in excess of the low level class 100 that is Namor"

Namor isent a low class 100. And definatly not underwater.

Superman wins this rather easily. In or out the water, he still remains the stronger, the tougher and the faster one.

Originally posted by olympian
"Superman wins all the time. Namor could beat Hulk in the water because he was stronger than hulks base level",

Savage Hulk wasent operating at calm levels even underwater. Namor on water punks because he can mantain his full strenght all the time.

"hulks manouevrability compared to Namor is poor especially in water."

Every character not water based has more movements problems underwaters than the water ones. Theres always an edge.

"Supermans strength is immense and is far in excess of the low level class 100 that is Namor"

Namor isent a low class 100. And definatly not underwater.

Ive already dealt with this issue over in comic book movies so i shouldnt have to repeat myself. Namor is a low class 100. That is shown by his most recent bio.

He has some good feats and can certainly lift more than the 100 tons his bio suggests however he is given a rating of 6 whereas other class 100's like Hulk, Thanos and King Thor are given 7's. They are high class 100's, Namor most certainly is not. He can not match them for raw power. He certainly has the strength to engage them h2h and in some circumstances because of his additional abilities defeat some high class 100's however he is not on their level in terms of strength according to Marvel.

No matter how messed up their class system is, with people being able to lift far in excess of what their bios state, you always know where someone stands in the hierarchy when they are allocated a lower rating than others. Namor has a 6 rating for strength, aong with colossus and Thing, while King Thor, Thanos, Hulk, Juggernaut and so on get 7's. END OF.

Because we all know that Handbooks are always right...just look at bios of Dr. Ock, Beast, old school Namor...the creators of characters haven't written the handbooks, and therefore they can be wrong and make mistakes, because there isn't person name "Marvel", there is one guy who writes the profile and can make mistakes. End of.

Namor and Hulk both smashed each other with full force. There is no limit to the angered Hulk's strength, he wasn't at "base level" (Besides, Hulk has done pretty awesome feats when calm). Namor survived awake, Hulk didn't. Now the question is, did Namor hit him harder, therefore being as strong, or is Namor more durable? (As in, water)

He's still not enough for Supes.

Originally posted by Juntai
He's still not enough for Supes.

Superman usually has his hands full of Hulk when they meet. Namor has defeated Hulk twice (triple, if you count the time Hulk was mind-controlled)

Yeah, but on the same note, Batman beat hulk h2h, so what's your point?
Superman outPOWERS him by faarrrrrr.
Superman is not hindered by water, can Namor move LS?

No. Neither can Superman. At least on Earth (Maybe in space). I'm not saying that Namor would win all the time, but he has some chance.

Flying he can, just not on land.

He can't fly at lightspeed on Earth's atmosphere.

And even then he's only a few steps behind Wally.

You think that Wally goes instant lightspeed every time they race? I can recall two times when Wally went lightspeed...none of them was racing.

Ugh, I don't feel like arguing the point, but in any case, he's still much to strong fast, and durable for Namor to deal with, or he could just use heat vision, and bring a little Sun power down him and turn him to ash.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Because we all know that Handbooks are always right...just look at bios of Dr. Ock, Beast, old school Namor...the creators of characters haven't written the handbooks, and therefore they can be wrong and make mistakes, because there isn't person name "Marvel", there is one guy who writes the profile and can make mistakes. End of.

Namor and Hulk both smashed each other with full force. There is no limit to the angered Hulk's strength, he wasn't at "base level" (Besides, Hulk has done pretty awesome feats when calm). Namor survived awake, Hulk didn't. Now the question is, did Namor hit him harder, therefore being as strong, or is Namor more durable? (As in, water)

That doesnt counter my post at all DC. You go by Handbooks and regard them as the gospel truth when it suits your purposes i.e supporting a Namor argument but now that im showing you that they show that he's not a high class 100 you dont want to hear it. Well im sorry it just doesnt work like that. As ive said the class system is messed up it doesnt give an accurate assessment in all cases of what a character can lift however they do let us know the hierarchy of the characters. How strong they compare with each other according to Marvel. Namor is 6 along with colossus and Thing. Hulk, Thanos and so on are 7. END OF.

Supes wins both in and out of water. In water Supes is still faster and stronger than Namor who is low class 100 and has a swimming speed of 60 mph. Supes can hold his breath long enough to fly across the universe. Namor doesnt have him at a major enough disadvantage. Namor is outclassed he isnt high tier enough. Accept it.

"Ive already dealt with this issue over in comic book movies so i shouldnt have to repeat myself. Namor is a low class 100. That is shown by his most recent bio"

+

"No matter how messed up their class system is, with people being able to lift far in excess of what their bios state, you always know where someone stands in the hierarchy when they are allocated a lower rating than others. Namor has a 6 rating for strength, aong with colossus and Thing, while King Thor, Thanos, Hulk, Juggernaut and so on get 7's. END OF."

With all due respect. No. The fact in water he wins against savage Hulk by keeping his full strenght doesnt equalize being low class 100. Even in land until he starts to weaken he does more than hold its own. Against immortal Hercules the same, Abomination its another. He is middle to - top tier. Either its acceptable, but not low. Thats Superboy and the like.

There are some top tiers slighty stronger than Submariner, but thats it.

And i dont go by bios or handbooks. If someone goes, then fine, but they practically never showcase what actually happens in the comics. They are in my opinion crap. Pure and simple. Even the new system has innacuracies already.

Superman - might - pull a majority, hes just doesnt have the edge in this kind of particular battle. Not that he loses strenght. Its just he wont take advantage of the envyorment as Namor will. This 10/10 take ive read by some other posters its utterly ridiculous.

Originally posted by olympian
"Ive already dealt with this issue over in comic book movies so i shouldnt have to repeat myself. Namor is a low class 100. That is shown by his most recent bio"

"No matter how messed up their class system is, with people being able to lift far in excess of what their bios state, you always know where someone stands in the hierarchy when they are allocated a lower rating than others. Namor has a 6 rating for strength, aong with colossus and Thing, while King Thor, Thanos, Hulk, Juggernaut and so on get 7's. END OF."

With all due respect. No. The fact in water he wins against savage Hulk by keeping his full strenght doesnt equalize being low class 100. Even in land until he starts to weaken he does more than hold its own. Against immortal Hercules the same, Abomination its another. He is middle to - top tier. There are some top tiers slighty stronger, but thats it.

And i dont go by bios or handbooks. If someone goes then fine, but they never showcase what actually happens in the comics. They are in my opinion crap. Pure and simple. Even the new system has innacurancies already.

Superman - might - pull a majority, hes just doesnt have the edge in this kind of battle. This 10/10 take ive read by some other posters its utterly ridiculous.

Handbooks are there as a guideline. Marvel has always said this. They give an idea of what characters are at least capable of. Despite the inaccuracies the handbooks at the very least give us an idea of the hierarchy of th eheroes and how Marvel intends the characters to compare power wise. In terms of strength Namor is simply outclassed by the likes of Hulk, Superman and so on, theres no debating that, thats why he is a level 6. He has the warrior skills and abilities to engage high class 100's hand to hand and in some cases defeat them ( Hulk underwater) however there is no denying the fact that he is not a high class 100.

Superman is not really disadvantaged underwater. He's considerably stronger than Namor, he's considerably faster underwater, he can hold his breath long enough to take him out.

Fighting at the best of his ability Supes could K.O Namor within a minute. He is clearly outclassed. Those with a neutral mindset can easily see that.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Superman wins all the time. Namor could beat Hulk in the water because he was stronger than hulks base level, hulks manouevrability compared to Namor is poor especially in water. Supermans strength is immense and is far in excess of the low level class 100 that is Namor. As pointed out because of the nature of his flight capabilties Supes isnt restricted in water as the hulk was and he can even move faster in water than Namor who is limited to a swimming speed of 60 mph.

Supes wins very easily.

Comic book artists and writers hardly ever use the Class system. I think people in this forum should stop using it aswell. There are different levels of strength:

Spiderman / Bane

Thing / Colossus / Cyborg / Wonder man /

Aquaman / Superboy / Namor (in water) / Abomination / Ultimate Thing + Colossus

Thor / Wonder woman / Current she Hulk / Juggernuaght / Gladiator/ Thanos / Hercules / Nefaria

Superman / /Mangog / Destroyer / Despero / Eighth Day Juggernaught

Galactus / Celstials / Pharalax / Magus Blah BLah



N.b. there is a big difference

"Handbooks are there as a guideline. Marvel has always said this. They give an idea of what characters are at least capable of. Despite the inaccuracies the handbooks at the very least give us an idea of the hierarchy of th eheroes and how Marvel intends the characters to compare power wise. In terms of strength Namor is simply outclassed by the likes of Hulk, Superman and so on"

Yes and by guideline it doesnt translate " he only does this or that ". Hulk has done far more than his handbooks entries have always said. So did Namor.

About sometimes beating Hulk. He defeat both times the fight happened underwater. His record its clean. He stalemated him on other ocassions and the black spot on his rep (everyone has them) was against Mindless Hulk. And we know why that happened.

When Hulk skyrockts he becomes stronger than any other of the top tier. Even Superman. However Namors case its not a Ben Grimm example where hes a class or two below and that can - hang - out with the main guys strenghtwise. This is someone who goes - toe to toe - with them.

When you go toe to toe with the main guns, you dont belong to the low section of the same class. Now if you ask me if Superman its stronger. Yes he is. Slighty. Is he going to win underwater against Namor? Yes. All of them? The way i see it, no.

lets keep in mind while in the same way he can use heat vision, Namor can use other ways to beat him. Like Poseidon`s Trident.

A h2h underwater fight? Namor for me. He has superior skills and the enought strenght to accomplish it.

Im not saying your totally wrong GS. Your points about Superman being able to fight underwater are accepted. Its not like Namor would ever have it easy just because its his turf. I just dont take the low class part in any serious way.

A bit out of topic now:

yahman, Superman belongs the class below. Not that one. Thats too high for him.

Originally posted by olympian
"Handbooks are there as a guideline. Marvel has always said this. They give an idea of what characters are at least capable of. Despite the inaccuracies the handbooks at the very least give us an idea of the hierarchy of th eheroes and how Marvel intends the characters to compare power wise. In terms of strength Namor is simply outclassed by the likes of Hulk, Superman and so on"

Yes and by guideline it doesnt translate " he only does this or that ". Hulk has done far more than his handbooks entries have always said. So did Namor.

About sometimes beating Hulk. He defeat both times the fight happened underwater. His record its clean. He stalemated him on other ocassions and the black spot on his rep (everyone has them) was aganist Mindless Hulk. And we know why that happened.

When Hulk skyrockts he becomes stronger than any other of the top tier. Even Superman. However Namors case its not a Ben Grimm example where hes a class or two below and that can - hang - out with the main guys strenghtwise. This is someone who goes - toe to toe - with them.

When you go toe to toe with the main guns, you dont belong to the low section of the same class. Now if you ask me if Superman its stronger. Yes he is. Slighty. Is he going to win underwater against Namor? Yes. All of them? The way i see it, no.

lets keep in mind while in the same way he can use heat vision, Namor can use other ways to beat him. Like Poseidon`s Trident.

A h2h underwater fight? Namor for me. He has superior skills and the enought strenght to accomplish it.

A bit out of topic now:

yahman, Superman belongs the class below. Not that one. Thats too high for him.

'yahman, Superman belongs the class below. Not that one. Thats too high for him.'

What ever !



People should reject the class system completely. People should start analysing Marvel caharacters like D.C. characters. (E.G. Read comics and compare Feats).


Superman Wins 8/10 in water.

""""""""Yes and by guideline it doesnt translate " he only does this or that ". Hulk has done far more than his handbooks entries have always said. So did Namor.

""""""""""""""""""

Olympian of course it doesnt mean that. Thats why i said the word guideline in the first place. However he is still classed as level 6 in comparison to the hulk and other high class 100's level 7. Their handbook entries too wouldnt have everry single detail and aspect of their characters included so it goes both ways im afraid. However the Handbook lets you know that according to marvel, in their eyes Namor is not on the same strength level as the Hulk and so on. He is not high class 100. He is class 100 however and is capable of some good feats, his powers and training allow him to take on and sometimes defeat level 7 people, however he can not match their raw power. Simple as.

Superman outclasses him in speed and strength majorly, even underwater. He is ridiculously outclassed and could be speed blitzed. Namors swimming speed is 60 mph for goodness sake.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
""""""""Yes and by guideline it doesnt translate " he only does this or that ". Hulk has done far more than his handbooks entries have always said. So did Namor.

""""""""""""""""""

Olympian of course it doesnt mean that. Thats why i said the word guideline in the first place. However he is still classed as level 6 in comparison to the hulk and other high class 100's level 7. Their handbook entries too wouldnt have everry single detail and aspect of their characters included so it goes both ways im afraid. However the Handbook lets you know that according to marvel, in their eyes Namor is not on the same strength level as the Hulk and so on. He is not high class 100. He is class 100 however and is capable of some good feats, his powers and training allow him to take on and sometimes defeat level 7 people, however he can not match their raw power. Simple as.

Superman outclasses him in speed and strength majorly, even underwater. He is ridiculously outclassed and could be speed blitzed. Namors swimming speed is 60 mph for goodness sake.

The handbook makes no reference to high and Low class 100.

How can you even compare Superman to Asgardian Destroyer or 8th day Juggernaut?

And that is by reading feats and comics

Superman underwater :

Hand to Hand - Namor 7/10

All powers - Superman 7/8/10

Poseidons Trident - Lets not go there. I find it cool tho.

"Olympian of course it doesnt mean that. Thats why i said the word guideline in the first place. However he is still classed as level 6 in comparison to the hulk and other high class 100's level 7. Their handbook entries too wouldnt have everry single detail and aspect of their characters included so it goes both ways im afraid"

I totally understand. But how does it dismisses the fact in comics that wer printed and are on continuity he has two wins against Hulk and stalemated him every since except for once. And he does have a similiar record with other hitters.

Writters hardly follow the guidelines. Even in the old handbooks when Herc and Hulk wer written as being incalculable, was Thor show in comics being any weaker than these two? Was Herk ever showed to be heaps and bounds above Thor, since he had a "limit" and he by the handbook didnt.?

What about When Only Hulk, Glads and Herk wer tagged class 100 and Namor, Thor and others class 90? Wer they ever showed or written to be any weaker than those?

Its this kind of examples that makes me go by comics. And by those Namor is and never was that weak compared with the likes of Thor and Hulk.

Originally posted by yahman
The handbook makes no reference to high and Low class 100.

Dont get smart with me sonny. The handbook however states what the definition of class 100 is. Being able to lift at least 100 tons and more.

Namor is at level 6 which incorporates those as low as class 75 and his bio states that he is able to routinely lift 100 tons, marking him out as a class 100. You then have people like the hulk, Thanos and King Thor as well as many cosmic beings who are level 7. Their bios often say they can lift way in excess of 100 tons and their rating of 7 marks theur strength out as virtually immeasureable because of the enormity of weights they have been able to lift. Thats where you get your high and your low class 100's. Namor as strong as he is cant match the likes of Hulk in terms of raw strength. He cant. Thats not debatable. His considerable strength and his speed and warrior skills however allow him to engage such powerhouses hand to hand and quite successfully in some situations.

Superman has immense strength which the Hulk would need to get really worked up to even come close, he has far greater speed than Namor and he isnt really disadvantaged underwater. Namor swims at 60 mph is nowhere near as strong as Superman and thats the crux of the matter.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Dont get smart with me sonny. The handbook however states what the definition of class 100 is. Being able to lift at least 100 tons and more.

Namor is at level 6 which incorporates those as low as class 75 and his bio states that he is able to routinely lift 100 tons, marking him out as a class 100. You then have people like the hulk, Thanos and King Thor as well as many cosmic beings who are level 7. Their bios often say they can lift way in excess of 100 tons and their rating of 7 marks theur strength out as virtually immeasureable because of the enormity of weights they have been able to lift. Thats where you get your high and your low class 100's. Namor as strong as he is cant match the likes of Hulk in terms of raw strength. He cant. Thats not debatable. His considerable strength and his speed and warrior skills however allow him to engage such powerhouses hand to hand and quite successfully in some situations.

Superman has immense strength which the Hulk would need to get really worked up to even come close, he has far greater speed than Namor and he isnt really disadvantaged underwater. Namor swims at 60 mph is nowhere near as strong as Superman and thats the crux of the matter.

Level 6 = 75 - 100 tons

the line means too. Not way over, Not Mid Class 100.

Abomination = Level 7. He has been beaten by Namor.

"Namor as strong as he is cant match the likes of Hulk in terms of raw strength. He cant. Thats not debatable. His considerable strength and his speed and warrior skills however allow him to engage such powerhouses hand to hand and quite successfully in some situations."

Of course its debatable. You just prefer to go by a source that always had errors instead the showings in the comics. And lets make a mark here. Heavy hitters can match the Hulk in raw strenght. Namor did it. Hercules did it. Thor did it. Its when he gets beyond that he goes above these guys. That and the fact so far he never owned any of those at full power in a battle.

You also make reference to Marvels stance about how Namor inside the Universe measure with the Hulk. Yes he plays second fold. So does Hercules. And one time and another Thor does as well. However characters popularity in and outiside the universe have no bearing of how theyr figths went.

Originally posted by yahman
Level 6 = 75 - 100 tons

the line means too. Not way over, Not Mid Class 100.

Abomination = Level 7. He has been beaten by Namor.

The definiton of class 100 is to be able to lift at least 100 tons. Being level 6 encompasses that. Namor is classified as class 6. Marvels system is only to be taken as a guideline for what the characters are definitely capable of time and time again. They used to make a point of saying this in their old handbooks. The handbooks show what you can at least expect from the characters in terms of their powers. However the handbooks also show the hierarchy of the characters. Namor being 6 in strength is lower than Hulk who is 7. Its really as simple as that. In terms of numbers Namor can lift way more than the range his level 6 rating allows for, jus like Rogue has been shown to lift more than 50 tons at times. However because rogue can and has defeated she hulk who is a higher rating than her im not going to disregard the handbook. Its made clear that its just a guideline. According to Marvel Namor isnt in the same strength level as Hulk he is not high class 100. By their own definition Namor makes it into the class 100 category however the fact that he's rated by Marvel themselves as lower in strength than the likes of Hulk and Thanos lets you know that he's certainly not high class 100

It is the assumption of thsese debates that the characters are fighting to the best of their ability and at full power. Namor cant match Hulk and other high class 100's in terms of raw power if theyre at full power going all out. He simply can not. Thats not debatable. His considerable strength and abilities allows him to engage them, definitely hold his own and sometimes defeat them however theres no denying that he can not match the full unbridled strength of the people Marvel consider above him. Hence his rating.

People please dont confuse and intwine fighting skill with raw power. Namor is far more skilled at fighting than Hulk and has considerable strength of his own. Thats why he can go toe to toe with him and defeat him. Its really not debatable that Namor can match the full power of Superman or the Hulk its really not.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The definiton of class 100 is to be able to lift at least 100 tons. Being level 6 encompasses that. Namor is classified as class 6. Marvels system is only to be taken as a guideline for what the characters are definitely capable of time and time again. They used to make a point of saying this in their old handbooks. The handbooks show what you can at least expect from the characters in terms of their powers. However the handbooks also show the hierarchy of the characters. Namor being 6 in strength is lower than Hulk who is 7. Its really as simple as that. In terms of numbers Namor can lift way more than the range his level 6 rating allows for, jus like Rogue has been shown to lift more than 50 tons at times. However because rogue can and has defeated she hulk who is a higher rating than her im not going to disregard the handbook. Its made clear that its just a guideline. According to Marvel Namor isnt in the same strength level as Hulk he is not high class 100. By their own definition Namor makes it into the class 100 category however the fact that he's rated by Marvel themselves as lower in strength than the likes of Hulk and Thanos lets you know that he's certainly not high class 100

I agree with you u. The New system could have been really good, if it hadn't incorperated Numerical Values with it.

E.G. Level 6 beings dont have a defined limit but a generally accepted as being weaker than level 7 characters.

Also note that Abomination is not a high level 7 character. !!!!!!!!!!!! Id drop him to level 6.

Originally posted by yahman
I agree with you u. The New system could have been really good, if it hadn't incorperated Numerical Values with it.

E.G. Level 6 beings dont have a defined limit but a generally accepted as being weaker than level 7 characters.

Also note that Abomination is not a high level 7 character. !!!!!!!!!!!! Id drop him to level 6.

Exactly. I thought Abomination was level 6 in the latest handbook anyway?

"It is the assumption of thsese debates that the characters are fighting to the best of their ability and at full power. Namor cant match Hulk and other high class 100's in terms of raw power if theyre at full power going all out"

I agree and dont agree. Hulk doesnt always get on a level that leaves the high class 100 behind. He does that rarely. Until then he can be matched with the ocassionally problems. This is not translating into winning. It means both can happen. The fact this fight isent on land or just Namor fresh out of water, means he will be all out in this scenario. Now if its h2h he takes the majority. If its all powers to use while its a good fight, Superman wins the majority.

"People please dont confuse and intwine fighting skill with raw power. Namor is far more skilled at fighting than Hulk and has considerable strength of his own."

Mostly agree expect for one thing. As skilled as you are if your not at least middle class 100, you wont last long against the heavy hitters full out. Imagine Superboy against Superman. Or against Hulk. Ouch.

Namor to go toe to toe, as he has, means he has to have more than just the enought strenght to tangle with them. That added to skill, wich your right its one of his best assets while on Superman its one of the worst, can give him the win against the likes of Hulk, Hercules etc.

But only underwater where he goes full on with no loss of his might.

I can see your pov from the guildelines, i just have them as erronic and follow the comics instead.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Exactly. I thought Abomination was level 6 in the latest handbook anyway?

The Marvel Website has him at level 7. Do you think there should be a Level 8 and 9 Introduced for people Like Glactus and the Celestials?

Originally posted by yahman
The Marvel Website has him at level 7. Do you think there should be a Level 8 and 9 Introduced for people Like Glactus and the Celestials?

I could swear the handbook has him at level 6. Im sure it does. I'll read it later. Their websites bios are really outdated anyway so if you're going to reference bios id download the handbooks. Use winmx.

Well Galactus and the Celestials are too high level and dont fight physically so i dont think theres any point. Its obvious that no matter how strong our heroes are theyre going to be stronger. Plus when you're really powerful like herald and above level you're stats become virtually unlimited anyway so i think its fine having it as 7 which is immeasureable or virtually unlimited.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I could swear the handbook has him at level 6. Im sure it does. I'll read it later. Their websites bios are really outdated anyway so if you're going to reference bios id download the handbooks. Use winmx.

Well Galactus and the Celestials are too high level and dont fight physically so i dont think theres any point. Its obvious that no matter how strong our heroes are theyre going to be stronger. Plus when you're really powerful like herald and above level you're stats become virtually unlimited anyway so i think its fine having it as 7 which is immeasureable or virtually unlimited.

Can you Scan in the Winmix website again. please ????????????

Originally posted by yahman
Can you Scan in the Winmix website again. please ????????????

http://www.winmx.com/

LOL

Namor has a level 6 in strength.

The 2004 FF encyclopedia and the 2005 FF handbood have him at 6.

Then on the Golden Age handbook he has a level 6 also. Which means that he isnt class 100. He can lift up to a 100 tons. Anything over 100 tons would be a level 7.

I forgot this too. The 2002 Marvel encyclopedia has him at level 6 once again.

Supes wins this easily. He can evaporate all the water in the area with namor included in it.
When namor starts throwing and moving planet sized objects on a whim, then we can talk strength.

heat vision?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

""""""""Yes and by guideline it doesnt translate " he only does this or that ". Hulk has done far more than his handbooks entries have always said. So did Namor.

""""""""""""""""""

Olympian of course it doesnt mean that. Thats why i said the word guideline in the first place. However he is still classed as level 6 in comparison to the hulk and other high class 100's level 7. Their handbook entries too wouldnt have everry single detail and aspect of their characters included so it goes both ways im afraid. However the Handbook lets you know that according to marvel, in their eyes Namor is not on the same strength level as the Hulk and so on. He is not high class 100. He is class 100 however and is capable of some good feats, his powers and training allow him to take on and sometimes defeat level 7 people, however he can not match their raw power. Simple as.

Superman outclasses him in speed and strength majorly, even underwater. He is ridiculously outclassed and could be speed blitzed. Namors swimming speed is 60 mph for goodness sake.




According to the guy who wrote the handbook he is not on the same level of strength. I doubt though that he has read every comic Namor has been in. And he clearly hasn't since the handbook says that Namor can lift UP to 100 tons, while even the old "Class 85" Namor did more at least ten times.

You should ask it from Bill Everett who created Namor, but since he is dead, you should ask it from Stan Lee who gave Namor the soul and essence and who also created Hulk. Since that is not available, should I trust um...Ronald Byrd who hasn't written a comic in his life?

You say that I always give examples of comics when they are in my help. Well, that is not true. People always ask that "Show us a proof that Namor is class 100, show us a proof that Namor has superhuman reflexes". I show them the comic pictures. "We don't believe until we see a handbook entry", and I give them the handbook entry. That is when I use the handbooks. I know that Namor is Class 100 without handbooks. I know that he has superhuman reflexes. But some people don't.

And Superman wins. I have already stated it.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
According to the guy who wrote the handbook he is not on the same level of strength. I doubt though that he has read every comic Namor has been in. And he clearly hasn't since the handbook says that Namor can lift UP to 100 tons, while even the old "Class 85" Namor did more at least ten times.

You should ask it from Bill Everett who created Namor, but since he is dead, you should ask it from Stan Lee who gave Namor the soul and essence and who also created Hulk. Since that is not available, should I trust um...Ronald Byrd who hasn't written a comic in his life?

You say that I always give examples of comics when they are in my help. Well, that is not true. People always ask that "Show us a proof that Namor is class 100, show us a proof that Namor has superhuman reflexes". I show them the comic pictures. "We don't believe until we see a handbook entry", and I give them the handbook entry. That is when I use the handbooks. I know that Namor is Class 100 without handbooks. I know that he has superhuman reflexes. But some people don't.

And Superman wins. I have already stated it.


Not true DC. I seem to recall in the Namor Vs Storm thread when there wasnt concrete evidence that Namor had enhanced reflexes you showed a handbook scan to verify your claims. That was fine, it was supporting your beloved flat head. Now im using the handbook to support my claim that Namor is low level class 100 compared to hulk and so on who are level 7's. As i have said before and what doesnt seem to be able to penetrate your skull is the fact that the handbooks are just guidelines. Characters such as rogue who are stated to lift 50 tons are shown doing feats which place their strength level far above that. So while you know that the class system isnt 100% accurate in terms of numbers you do know the hierarchy of the characters. For example rogue at level 5 is not on par strength wise with the thing at level 6 or she hulk even though she has fought them successfully and defeated them. Her abilities and her considerable strength allowed her to gain a victory over her rivals. In terms of raw strength she's outclassed. Hence her lower rating. It is exactly the same situation with Namor in comparison to the likes of Hulk and King Thor. In terms of raw strength he's not on their level, regardless of your opinion or your wishes for your favourite character. I know id rather put my faith in Marvel.

Superman wins without a doubt

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not true DC. I seem to recall in the Namor Vs Storm thread when there wasnt concrete evidence that Namor had enhanced reflexes you showed a handbook scan to verify your claims. That was fine, it was supporting your beloved flat head. Now im using the handbook to support my claim that Namor is low level class 100 compared to hulk and so on who are level 7's. As i have said before and what doesnt seem to be able to penetrate your skull is the fact that the handbooks are just guidelines. Characters such as rogue who are stated to lift 50 tons are shown doing feats which place their strength level far above that. So while you know that the class system isnt 100% accurate in terms of numbers you do know the hierarchy of the characters. For example rogue at level 5 is not on par strength wise with the thing at level 6 or she hulk even though she has fought them successfully and defeated them. Her abilities and her considerable strength allowed her to gain a victory over her rivals. In terms of raw strength she's outclassed. Hence her lower rating. It is exactly the same situation with Namor in comparison to the likes of Hulk and King Thor. In terms of raw strength he's not on their level, regardless of your opinion or your wishes for your favourite character. I know id rather put my faith in Marvel.
Right, momentary feat and standard ability are two different things.

Originally posted by Juntai
Right, momentary feat and standard ability are two different things.

I dont understand your point would you care to elaborate?

"When namor starts throwing and moving planet sized objects on a whim, then we can talk strength"

Beating Savage Hulk twice and stalemating Hulk the other times and immortal hercules also twice doesnt speak for it?

Black Adam pre crisis didnt had any lifting feats in the level of Superman, and he was showed and considered stronger than either Superman -and- Captain Marvel.

How about Thanos? How many strenght feats he has? Or Juggernaut.

Combat feats have use for something. Otherwise i would claim Hercules to be much stronger than Juggernaut and Thanos.

He's said to be on whatever level, by the handbooks right?
And someone is saying in the comics that he's done MORE?
Well, in a heated moment 'feats' that are out of character can be made.
It's how you get tales similar to "Woman lifts car to save baby", type of deal.
More or less I was explaining how he does these things, even though it says he shouldn't be able to.

Originally posted by olympian
"When namor starts throwing and moving planet sized objects on a whim, then we can talk strength"

Beating Savage Hulk twice and stalemating Hulk the other times and immortal hercules also twice doesnt speak for it?

Black Adam pre crisis didnt had any lifting feats in the level of Superman, and he was showed and considered stronger than either Superman -and- Captain Marvel.

How about Thanos? How many strenght feats he has? Or Juggernaut.

Combat feats have use for something. Otherwise i would claim Hercules to be much stronger than Juggernaut and Thanos.
Didn't Superman just stand in a barrage of a Hulk attack and let him keep hitting him and was even having a conversation with himself in his head about how the Hulk kept getting stronger, and then just "OK time to end it" and burried him in one blow?
lol.

"He's said to be on whatever level, by the handbooks right?
And someone is saying in the comics that he's done MORE"

Read any handbook entry. Read his fights and strenght feats in the comics.

They dont follow each other.

Same for every top hero practically. I seem to recall some handbooks entries saying Hulk couldnt whistand nuclear explosions and how many times hes done that? Something like three? One being the Grey Hulk, who is the weakest incarnation to date.

"Didn't Superman just stand in a barrage of a Hulk attack and let him keep hitting him and was even having a conversation with himself in his head about how the Hulk kept getting stronger, and then just "OK time to end it" and burried him in one blow?
lol."

They have two encounters. Did you also missed the one where Hulk punches pre crisis Superman into the orbit or such and the fight stopped?

Anybody can read the part we like best.

supes wins hands down

supes is too fast, durable,a nd strong for namor

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not true DC. I seem to recall in the Namor Vs Storm thread when there wasnt concrete evidence that Namor had enhanced reflexes you showed a handbook scan to verify your claims.

I had the evidence. He does the same things Spider-Man did. Dodging lasers, Mach 1 attacks and bullets from close range tells me that he has superhuman reflexes. YOU were the ones that said "it isn't said in handbook, therefore he doesn't have them". You needed the handbook evidence. Not me.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I had the evidence. He does the same things Spider-Man did. Dodging lasers, Mach 1 attacks and bullets from close range tells me that he has superhuman reflexes. YOU were the ones that said "it isn't said in handbook, therefore he doesn't have them". You needed the handbook evidence. Not me.

You've lost anyway DC its quite clear to those who stand on neutral ground that Namor would win. Your evidence was easily disputed and argued against therefore it wasnt concrete, that was when you showed the excerpt from the house of M secrets book to support your beloved Namor. Im doing the same just to let you know that according to Marvel he's not on Hulk or Supes level in terms of strength. I know you love him but im afraid its true.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
For example rogue at level 5 is not on par strength wise with the thing at level 6 or she hulk even though she has fought them successfully and defeated them. Her abilities and her considerable strength allowed her to gain a victory over her rivals. In terms of raw strength she's outclassed. Hence her lower rating. It is exactly the same situation with Namor in comparison to the likes of Hulk and King Thor. In terms of raw strength he's not on their level, regardless of your opinion or your wishes for your favourite character. I know id rather put my faith in Marvel.

Um...unless you know, Rogue hasn't never beaten Thing or She-Hulk with pure strength. She uses her absorption powers.

Namor beats them through pure strength.

And I put my faith on Marvel too, as in writers of the comics. You put your faith to some random guy who writes a handbook entry.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You've lost anyway DC its quite clear to those who stand on neutral ground that Namor would win. Your evidence was easily disputed and argued against therefore it wasnt concrete, that was when you showed the excerpt from the house of M secrets book to support your beloved Namor. Im doing the same just to let you know that according to Marvel he's not on Hulk or Supes level in terms of strength. I know you love him but im afraid its true.

Showed the proof to you, so you would believe it. You wouldn't otherwise, since you like to go by your beloved handbooks.

Oh shit, this guy is chumping Galatic Homey. The Dark Crawler Homey has a point.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Um...unless you know, Rogue hasn't never beaten Thing or She-Hulk with pure strength. She uses her absorption powers.

Namor beats them through pure strength.

And I put my faith on Marvel too, as in writers. You put your faith to some random guy who writes a handbook entry.

Namor beats the Hulk and so on through the use of his abilities as well as his strength. Namor doesnt stand on the ground and win a fight with the hulk because he's in the same strength league. Namor is a far better fighter, he is far more manouevrable and he is smarter. Therefore he can engage a powerhouse like the hulk and be successful in some cases, however he is not on the same level strength wise hence his lower rating. This is ludicrous DC i know you love Namor but you risk losing your credibility saying he can match the full strength of the hulk.

The handbooks are given Marvels blessings and are sanctioned by them. It is made clear that they ar emerely guidelines. In terms of numbers they are not 100% accurate however they convey the characters standing in the hierarchy just fine. Namor is level 6, Hulk, Thanos , King Thor are level 7. Deal with it

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Showed the proof to you, so you would believe it. You wouldn't otherwise, since you like to go by your beloved handbooks.

You showed me what you deemed to be sufficient proof. Myself and other members found that wasnt the case. Your proof was picked apart and explanations were made as to why they didnt show what you wanted them to show as a Namor fan. You then relied on the Handbook to prove your point which was fine. Im doing so right now.

Originally posted by PimpXMaster
Oh shit, this guy is chumping Galatic Homey. The Dark Crawler Homey has a point.

Not the case son. Its beyond his capabilities. You should hold back and watch from the wings before you open your mouth because you only end up being very wrong.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not the case son. Its beyond his capabilities. You should hold back and watch from the wings before you open your mouth because you only end up being very wrong.

Word...IGHT Son, I will just sit back and watch. You both make good points Homey.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Namor beats the Hulk and so on through the use of his abilities as well as his strength. Namor doesnt stand on the ground and win a fight with the hulk because he's in the same strength league. Namor is a far better fighter, he is far more manouevrable and he is smarter. Therefore he can engage a powerhouse like the hulk and be successful in some cases, however he is not on the same level strength wise hence his lower rating. This is ludicrous DC i know you love Namor but you risk losing your credibility saying he can match the full strength of the hulk.

The handbooks are given Marvels blessings and are sanctioned by them. It is made clear that they ar emerely guidelines. In terms of numbers they are not 100% accurate however they convey the characters standing in the hierarchy just fine. Namor is level 6, Hulk, Thanos , King Thor are level 7. Deal with it

No one can match the full strength of Hulk. It is limitless. Superman can't. Thanos can't. Thor can't. But Namor is hanging on the same league.

Two guys hit eachother. One survives the punch conscious, another unconscious. Did the other guy win because of his smartness or his maneuverability? Or better fighting skills? They punch eachother in the face as hard as they can, fighting skills aren't needed on that. So if the other guy is stronger, then guy who survived was more durable, or they tie in durability, and other guy was stronger.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not the case son. Its beyond his capabilities. You should hold back and watch from the wings before you open your mouth because you only end up being very wrong.

It's funny how conceited some people in these forums are...

One word. SERVED

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
No one can match the full strength of Hulk. It is limitless. Superman can't. Thanos can't. Thor can't. But Namor is hanging on the same league.

Two guys hit eachother. One survives the punch conscious, another unconscious. Did the other guy win because of his smartness or his maneuverability? Or better fighting skills? They punch eachother in the face as hard as they can, fighting skills aren't needed on that. So if the other guy is stronger, then guy who survived was more durable, or they tie in durability, and other guy was stronger.

Dont try and change it up now DC. It is the assumption of these forums that the characters are fighting to their best abilities and at full power. When i mentioned Hulk in this thread i said that Namor couldnt match his raw strength you repeatedly said that he could. That was my only point. Yet being the Namor fan you are you refused to concede on that one point. Its only now that you seem to have realised how silly and fanboy-like your previous stance, its only now you're talking the truth. Ive been right from my first post on this thread, its a pity it took you 24hrs to catch up.

As for the scenario you described the Hulk has a varying strength level and varying durability. Both Sabra a class 50 and Storm have had the better of him in battle. Even Wolverine has. So his varying power levels, Namors stable considerable strength, Namors fighting skills and additional abilities all come into play during their fights. Therefore sometimes Namor can win or be on a par with Hulks strength however as i rightly stated yesterday, Namor is not in the same class of strength as the Hulk, Class 7 is for those with immeasureable strength, those who can lift ridiculous amounts. Hulk throwing castles, bracing mountains and so on supports this. Thanos tossing aside multiple class 100's with ease singlehandedly supports this. Namor as strong as he is is not in that class. His strength in comparison is limited. He cant empower himself to godlike levels like those in class 7 can. Thats the point of that class. Namors strength has limits therefore he is level 6.

Originally posted by PimpXMaster
One word. SERVED

Again you're too quick to fire your mouth off. And again you have been rendered incorrect. Have patience son and you'll go far.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Again you're too quick to fire your mouth off. And again you have been rendered incorrect. Have patience son and you'll go far.

Wasn't talking about you Homey. Well both you guys Got Served, each time a counter comes up. Good debators.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
It's funny how conceited some people in these forums are...

Just speaking the gospel truth DC with practice you'll naturally improve. However at any given time my defeat by your hands is merely something you can aspire to.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
No one can match the full strength of Hulk. It is limitless. Superman can't. Thanos can't. Thor can't. But Namor is hanging on the same league.

Two guys hit eachother. One survives the punch conscious, another unconscious. Did the other guy win because of his smartness or his maneuverability? Or better fighting skills? They punch eachother in the face as hard as they can, fighting skills aren't needed on that. So if the other guy is stronger, then guy who survived was more durable, or they tie in durability, and other guy was stronger.

An Enhanced Thing Did !!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Dont try and change it up now DC. It is the assumption of these forums that the characters are fighting to their best abilities and at full power. When i mentioned Hulk in this thread i said that Namor couldnt match his raw strength you repeatedly said that he could. That was my only point. Yet being the Namor fan you are you refused to concede on that one point. Its only now that you seem to have realised how silly and fanboy-like your previous stance, its only now you're talking the truth. Ive been right from my first post on this thread, its a pity it took you 24hrs to catch up.

As for the scenario you described the Hulk has a varying strength level and varying durability. Both Sabra a class 50 and Storm have had the better of him in battle. Even Wolverine has. So his varying power levels, Namors stable considerable strength, Namors fighting skills and additional abilities all come into play during their fights. Therefore sometimes Namor can win or be on a par with Hulks strength however as i rightly stated yesterday, Namor is not in the same class of strength as the Hulk, Class 7 is for those with immeasureable strength, those who can lift ridiculous amounts. Hulk throwing castles, bracing mountains and so on supports this. Thanos tossing aside multiple class 100's with ease singlehandedly supports this. Namor as strong as he is is not in that class. His strength in comparison is limited. He cant empower himself to godlike levels like those in class 7 can. Thats the point of that class. Namors strength has limits therefore he is level 6.

Class 6 means: Superhuman: 75-100 range. Upper limit 100 tons.

Class 7 means Incalculable: In excess of 100 tons. Upper limit not known.

Namor's strength isn't incalculable, but it is in excess of 100 tons. Why isn't he on Class 7 then? You can ask the handbook writers.

Is Hercules stronger then Hulk? Thor? Thanos? Unless their strength is limitless, which I believe is not, why are they in Class 7 not in 6?

I do think Namor Homey could take the fight in the water. If it's in the water, Namor homey should have his trident(not the gum) already. Super Homey, don't fight Smart and in the water, he will get beat up, still close but it's Namor Homeys sea. On land, Super Homey will School Namor Homey. Ya Feel me.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Class 6 means: Superhuman: 75-100 range. Upper limit 100 tons.

Class 7 means Incalculable: In excess of 100 tons. Upper limit not known.

Namor's strength isn't incalculable, but it is in excess of 100 tons. Why isn't he on Class 7 then? You can ask the handbook writers.

Is Hercules stronger then Hulk? Thor? Thanos? Unless their strength is limitless, which I believe is not, why are they in Class 7 not in 6?

DarkC ive already explained this. Why wont you let it penetrate your skull. I'll say this once more. I will not repeat myself. The class 6 range of 75 tons to 100 tons incorporates low class 100's because class 100 by definiton is those who can routinely lift 100 tons. Namors strength being limited prevents him from being in class 7 so he is in level 6 which is fine because that level includes class 100 which aptly describes Namors capabilities. Level 7 is for those who have such immense strength that it cant be accurately measured, for those who have virtually limitless strength. That includes Thor, Thanos and Hercules to name a few. Being able to lift in excess of 100 tons also makes those people class 100 but we deem them as high class 100 to differentiate them from those who arent on their level, those who dont have virtually unlimited strength which is hard to gauge.

Originally posted by PimpXMaster
I do think Namor Homey could take the fight in the water. If it's in the water, Namor homey should have his trident(not the gum) already. Super Homey, don't fight Smart and in the water, he will get beat up, still close but it's Namor Homeys sea. On land, Super Homey will School Namor Homey. Ya Feel me.

Well not really to be honest Pimp. In the water supes is still ridiculously faster and stronger than Namor. Please bear in mind Namor swims at 60 mph. Supes in Marvel would be a level 7. Also remember that Supes can hold his breath long enough to fly across the universe. Supes is in no real disadvantage in the sea. Namor may retain his strength but its nothing compared to Supes'. Namor may be adapted to the water and may be able to swim at 60mph but Supes flies through self tk and would have no problem outpacing Namor ridiculously. namors only real advantage is that he can breathe in the water. But as aforementioned that just doesnt cut it in this match up,

Supes wins.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
DarkC ive already explained this. Why wont you let it penetrate your skull. I'll say this once more. I will not repeat myself. The class 6 range of 75 tons to 100 tons incorporates low class 100's because class 100 by definiton is those who can routinely lift 100 tons. Namors strength being limited prevents him from being in class 7 so he is in level 6 which is fine because that level includes class 100 which aptly describes Namors capabilities. Level 7 is for those who have such immense strength that it cant be accurately measured, for those who have virtually limitless strength. That includes Thor, Thanos and Hercules to name a few. Being able to lift in excess of 100 tons also makes those people class 100 but we deem them as high class 100 to differentiate them from those who arent on their level, those who dont have virtually unlimited strength which is hard to gauge.

I'm sorry, but doesn't the handbook clearly state that 6 means 75-100? That the upper limit is 100. And the 7 means that the character can lift more then 100? All I am saying, that it contradicts himself, if 6 in fact is for those that can lift more then 100 too...

Anyway, we shouldn't go by handbooks, we should go by comics.

Etc:

Originally posted by DarkCrawler

And I put my faith on Marvel too, as in writers of the comics. You put your faith to some random guy who writes a handbook entry.

Either way regardless of whether Namor is lower 100 class or "slightly" upper - he is NO way in Superman's league - and for the fan boyz who think Superman would get owned underwater IMO all that would do is delay the inevitable by a few more secounds?...