Which was a better movie: The Empire Strikes Back or Revenge of the Sith

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FistOfThe North
Which was a better movie: The Empire Strikes Back or Revenge of the Sith

Ast Rofan
Uh oh no

~ J ~
Yeah...bad idea................this could get ugly........


















(ESB)

darthmonkey9206
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Which was a better movie: The Empire Strikes Back or Revenge of the Sith

go away.

DeVi| D0do
Empire Strikes Back.

Ast Rofan
Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
Empire Strikes Back.



??? confused


I figured you of all people would have a field day with this thread. stick out tongue

DeVi| D0do
I figured you guys have it handled...

I don't have enough energy for stupid-thread bashing tonight. stick out tongue

JKozzy
The Empire Strikes Back, hands down.

Lord Matreid
Originally posted by darthmonkey9206
go away.

BAILY
That question is very tough to answer bud.. sorry.. i cant give you a definitive answer.. they are both the best of their respective trilogies... but I cant choose betweent the two

Jedi Priestess
Definitely Empire Strikes Back. While I liked ROTS alot, it cant touch ESB in my book.

Ast Rofan
Wow, JP is looking very.........animated. stick out tongue

Sir Mist
The Empire Strikes Black People..............Bad Empiremad

Captain REX
ESB. Hands down. No competition.

kremzike
ROTS

Just because everybody said ESB so far. stick out tongue

Well, that and because I really do like it better, but i'm slightly inclined to agree with Baily. But each of the 6.... eh, screw it. I don't feel like thinking tonight.

DeVi| D0do
Originally posted by kremzike
ROTS

Just because everybody said ESB so far. stick out tongue

Well, that and because I really do like it better, but i'm slightly inclined to agree with Baily. But each of the 6.... eh, screw it. I don't feel like thinking tonight.
I know how ya feel... sometimes posting here is just too much effort... big grin

Captain REX
Originally posted by kremzike
ROTS

Just because everybody said ESB so far. stick out tongue

You rebel. eek!

Padawan
May as well side with the rebel and vote for ROTS. stick out tongue

kremzike
THE REBEL ALLIANCE IS UNITING!!!!! Happy Dance

bilb
Originally posted by kremzike
THE REBEL ALLIANCE IS UNITING!!!!! Happy Dance

you have no idea stick out tongue

seriously, its not like this thread idea hasnt been done before.. UTFS roll eyes (sarcastic)

DiamondBullets
EMPIRE! It is considered the second best movie sequel of all time after The Godfather: Part II

My Opinion: From a cinematic standpoint EMPIRE was far superior, because it had better acting, screenplay, cinematography, deeper lyrics, more relevent charactars, and a much more believable and not so corny love story.

Leai: I love you.

Han: I know. <-----------That has got to be the most pimp line in the entire saga! Anyone disagree??????

ROTS had 21st century computer-generated effects going for it. That's all.

kremzike
Originally posted by DiamondBullets
ROTS had 21st century computer-generated effects going for it. That's all.

You could've said anything before that statement, made the greatest argument in favor of ANYTHING before that. Then, as soon as I read it, you lost all credibility in my eyes.

Dan Skywalker
The Empire Strikes Back, simply had a better directer.

DiamondBullets
In comparison to ESB, that statement stands. ROTS was a tyte action flick that connected the PT to the OT, but is nothing campared to ESB. I lost all credibility in yer eyes nigga???? That's koo, but what I said stands.

kanis
starwars Easily empire strikes back it is better directed has more evil stuff and you find out something more shocking than anakin turning evil and slaughtering younglings. Yeah the obi wan anakin fight is better than the luke & vader fight.

Scarecrow756
ESB I think is the far better movie. I knew this as soon as ROTS ended.
But ROTS comes a close second on my list.

kremzike
Originally posted by DiamondBullets
I lost all credibility in yer eyes nigga???? That's koo

And that's where you lose even more. Damn. Here's why it doesn't stand. You can think EBS is the better movie. That's fine. But to say that the only thing that ROTS had was better effects makes me think you either didn't see the movie or you're just trying too hard to make a point. You're pissing on an entire movie for no good reason. ROTS had so many emotional scenes that had nothing to do with CG. You're going to disregard the emotional depth of Order 66? The end of the duel? Padme and Anakin's connection across Coruscant? That's just a few things you seem to not have noticed or cared about judging by your statement. I'm not telling you to change your mind & name ROTS as the better of the two films. I'm telling you not to dismiss ROTS as just a CGI fieldtrip.

StarWarsSaga
Revenge of the Sith, Hands Down.

Red Superfly
Originally posted by kremzike
I'm telling you not to dismiss ROTS as just a CGI fieldtrip.

It wasn't a CGI field trip as much as say, Attack Of The Clones, but the CGI did come damn close to spoiling a few of the scenes emotional impact.

In ESB, everything takes place in rather barren or simple environments, and the only things doing anything as such, are the main characters, and so there's a maximum deliverance of the character.

In ROTS, however, I felt myself getting lost in the visuals. Take Order 66. We see Aayla Secura getting gunned down, but my eye kept wanderring over to the Willy Wonka playground she was surrounded in. Plo Koons death was completely pointless and their deaths were ESTABLISHING SHOTS of where they were. This meant everyone had to watch a character and try and get a grip with whatever environment they were in. It was fast and visual orientated, latching onto a character and caring for them is hard. I cared a helluva lot more for Biggs or Dak.

And to be honest, when the Obi-Wan and Anakin fight moved over to the lava river (especially when Anankin rode a tiny droid about a metre at most away over searring hot lava) it just reminded me of a video game. He didn't burn when directly over the lava but was grilled just by lying near it on a bank? ROTS did a few things that really tried to distract me, and I had to concentrate to actually focus on the characters. Oh well, still both good movies, but ROTS wasn't even as good as A New Hope. The beastly transformation of Darth Vader and the countless deaths seem to make everyone automatically rabidly fall in love with an OK movie.

b-dan
welll 1) Empier strikes back is one of the best written star wars flims

2) Revenge of the sith had the most action (in my opinion)

but id have to go with Empier strikes bak its a classic

kanis
starwars Irvin kersher should have directed ROTS because he would have made it darker.

KMCF
I liked Revenge of the Sith because the Visual Effects are so belivible. I also like The Yoda/Sidious matchup.

b-dan
right u are but i like ROTS the way it is

McCusto
ROTS embarrasment

Morridini
I would say ESB, RotS doesn't come close. Or perhaps it is just that I have only seen it once at 19th of May while I've seen ESB hundreds of times.

ShadowKing
Empire...

let's count the ways...

1. Imperial Walkers
2. Snow Troopers
3. Han and Chewie
4. Han and Leia
5. Vader taking Luke to lightsaber school
6. Yoda
7. Boba Fett (does so very little - yet still seemed feckin' cool...that's why he remained popular until GL unceremoniously dumped him in a worm)
8. The Imperial March theme
9. Super Star Destroyer (how big is that thing?)
10. Overall pacing and lighting...
11. Dialogue and humor
12. A tight script


Favorite Scene- Vader: "You are beaten! Don't make me destroy you..."

DiamondBullets
Originally posted by Red Superfly
It wasn't a CGI field trip as much as say, Attack Of The Clones, but the CGI did come damn close to spoiling a few of the scenes emotional impact.

In ESB, everything takes place in rather barren or simple environments, and the only things doing anything as such, are the main characters, and so there's a maximum deliverance of the character.

In ROTS, however, I felt myself getting lost in the visuals. Take Order 66. We see Aayla Secura getting gunned down, but my eye kept wanderring over to the Willy Wonka playground she was surrounded in. Plo Koons death was completely pointless and their deaths were ESTABLISHING SHOTS of where they were. This meant everyone had to watch a character and try and get a grip with whatever environment they were in. It was fast and visual orientated, latching onto a character and caring for them is hard. I cared a helluva lot more for Biggs or Dak.

And to be honest, when the Obi-Wan and Anakin fight moved over to the lava river (especially when Anankin rode a tiny droid about a metre at most away over searring hot lava) it just reminded me of a video game. He didn't burn when directly over the lava but was grilled just by lying near it on a bank? ROTS did a few things that really tried to distract me, and I had to concentrate to actually focus on the characters. Oh well, still both good movies, but ROTS wasn't even as good as A New Hope. The beastly transformation of Darth Vader and the countless deaths seem to make everyone automatically rabidly fall in love with an OK movie.

HALLELUIAH!!!

And in that mustafar fight when they were swinging on those cables and clashing sabers it looked like scene out of a cheap 50's buckaneer
flick. pirate vs pirate= Ani and Obi

Ast Rofan
Originally posted by DiamondBullets
And in that mustafar fight when they were swinging on those cables and clashing sabers it looked like scene out of a cheap 50's buckaneer
flick. pirate vs pirate= Ani and Obi

Yeah, that whole half second was hard to watch.

Altar[1stONE]
Originally posted by kremzike
Padme and Anakin's connection across Coruscant?

God that scene gets me everytime. If you have ever been apart from someone you love, youll know exactly how that shit feels *sigh*.

McCusto
The music is eerie, too 0_o

Darth Nauj
ROTS evil face

Eleonora
Neither actually. It's wrong to assume these two are the best ones according to all the fans, you certainly can't count me in.
Still, I would choose TESB only because ROTS is too painful to watch, it's not better nor worse, it's just different.

Sadako of Girth
Empire for me..

It is about as close to a perfect movie as you can get in my eyes..
Dynamically, character wise, script, action, philosophy, depth, photographically...

Don't get me wrong.. I love ROTS and sure its real dark in the second half, but for me ESB'll always be king (With ROTS a close second or tying 3rd)

Stealth Agent
empire better overall feel

.:Space Opera:.
Comparing Empire Strikes Back to Revenge of the Sith is like comparing milk and wine, its obvious.

Obiwalker08
ESB will always be the best

darthvader_fan
ROTS was way better. Check out the graphics. I mean you get to see the story behind DARTH VADER.

masterkit
now im not sure becuz Eleonora wuz right it wuz painful.

so im not sure.

but I think Ill go with III

Red Superfly
Originally posted by darthvader_fan
ROTS was way better. Check out the graphics. I mean you get to see the story behind DARTH VADER.

Check out the graphics????? WTF? laughing

garn
The 3D engine used in ROTS was phenomenal.

Sesse
Controls were better in ROTS XD.

Seriously, ESB is better. IMO.
A classic...

FistOfThe North
I like "Sith" better. I dont see what the big deal is with "ESB"

In my opinoin, i liked "a new hope" way better than "ESB".

And personally, "Return of the Jedi" is my favorite out of the classics.

Not to say "ESB" sucks. I just dont see what all the hoopla's about.

Stunrun
The Empire Strikes Back - Science Fiction at it's BESTcool

DiamondBullets
Originally posted by Stunrun
The Empire Strikes Back - Science Fiction at it's BESTcool

I feel ya! cool

Eleonora
Originally posted by FistOfThe North

And personally, "Return of the Jedi" is my favorite out of the classics.


Alone you are not, my friend smile
I love ESB but Return of the Jedi will always be precious to me because as a kid it used to be the one I watched the most, the one where the goodies won. I think it's cruel to choose among the films, but when people force me to do that I always say it's Jedi.

Ast Rofan
Originally posted by darthvader_fan
ROTS was way better. Check out the graphics. I mean you get to see the story behind DARTH VADER.


*note to self*


Never take anything darthvader_fan says seriously. no

elfprincess101
i love both of them but i have to say ROTS.

DeVi| D0do
Originally posted by Stunrun
The Empire Strikes Back - Science Fiction at it's BESTcool
The Empire Strikes Back - film at its best. smile

kr3w_killah
The whole saga. smile

Joseph_Kerr
Well in terms of the saga and what is correct (putting aside my personal favorite of the six, which is Return of the Jedi ie the redemption of the father).

1. ESB
2. ANH
3. ROTS
4. ROTJ
5. AOTC
6. TPM

Sith Master X
Every Star Wars movie is up there. Overall, my favorite would have to be ROTS.

amity75
I'll need about 5 years to analyse every film and then rate them. Bearing in mind I didn't like TESB when it first came out. The bottom line is that all 6 films contain at least one scene which makes you thik "Wow! that! blew! me! away!". I could happily sit and watch either of the 6 with no preference over any of them.

McGregorGirl
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
I like "Sith" better. I dont see what the big deal is with "ESB"

In my opinoin, i liked "a new hope" way better than "ESB".

And personally, "Return of the Jedi" is my favorite out of the classics.

Not to say "ESB" sucks. I just dont see what all the hoopla's about.

I have to agree. I guess I just prefer the darker episodes. Didn't help that Yoda was seriously getting on my NERVES in ESB.

Before ROTS, ROTJ was my favorite, but now since seeing the downfall, it makes watching the redemption that much more emotional and powerful.

ESB was good, and all....but I think it is my least favorite of the OT.

ROTJ and ROTS are also the only two that really moved me. ROTS is my favorite of the series mainly because it really got to me. I really felt for what Anakin was going through. I love how they made Vader less of a pure evil character into a tragic one.

Now I know I will probably tick off a few people on here, but also thanks to the prequels, I have a better experience with OT...I may be hearing James Earl Jones, but my minds sees Hayden under all that black wickedness... Humanizes Vader a bit more.

Stunrun
well my opinion of Vader has definatley changed. I go back to the OT and i actually feel sorry for him lolstick out tongue is that good or bad?confused

Sith Master X
That's good. Then you've understood what Lucas was trying to show.

Stunrun
to turn him from Cinema's greatest ever villain into a tortured soul? stick out tongue

Sith Master X
Yeah, it gives the character more depth. He's not a good guy pretending to be bad or anything, but you can see there's more to him then just being evil. I think some people mistake Vader for being the ultimate bad guy, when most of it was the Emperor's doing.

El_NINO
ESB has better scipting but ROTS has more fighting...


Im like America during election time... mostly undecided

Stunrun
True, very trueyes evil always comes - at some point, from good (or atleast it should dostick out tongue) makes it TONS more emotionalwink

i mean, Luke, Leia and Han all develope imensely as characters through the OT, and i think in terms of 'character development' in the PT - Vader comes out ontopyes

McGregorGirl
Originally posted by Stunrun
True, very trueyes evil always comes - at some point, from good (or atleast it should dostick out tongue) makes it TONS more emotionalwink

i mean, Luke, Leia and Han all develope imensely as characters through the OT, and i think in terms of 'character development' in the PT - Vader comes out ontopyes

Vader comes out on top.....Ooooh oooooh wicked pervert demons be gone! LOL

Well, Vader/Ani may be a tortured soul.....but still that best bad ass bad guy in movie history. Who doesn't get chills when hearing that OOOOOBER OOOOOBER....lol

Good and bad chills respectively... evil face wink

McGregorGirl
Originally posted by Stunrun
True, very trueyes evil always comes - at some point, from good (or atleast it should dostick out tongue) makes it TONS more emotionalwink

i mean, Luke, Leia and Han all develope imensely as characters through the OT, and i think in terms of 'character development' in the PT - Vader comes out ontopyes


I find the irony of it all amusing. The Jedi should not fear or be attatched.

But it was those two things Anakin had an overabundance of that helped him fulfill the prophecy. His love for Padme and fear of losing her turned him to the darkside. His love for Luke and fear of his death brought him back. Something it was thought could not be done.

guiro72
almost a tie...esb is the better film overall (smooth, flawlessly paced, 100% believable acting, constantly maintained mood, no "crap bits" that i can think of etc), rots has more mindblowingly perfect individual scenes, but is lumpy and slightly (i said slightly) flawed in places...but, well, like i said, esb is the better film overall, so i guess that's my answer...

(and yeah, i didn't understand why they couldn't just stand on the fricken' ground and duel, without all the dancing on robots heads crap...that annoyed me as well)

kanis
starwars What makes ESB better is the romance between Han and Leia you can actually feel the romace between them that they were meant to be together and in love, but I coulden't see that with between anakin and padme, well only when padme tells anakin she is pregnant with his kid but apart from that their is no chemistry between them all.

EHmasterJedi
lol ESB duh

chinabing
Originally posted by amity75
I'll need about 5 years to analyse every film and then rate them. Bearing in mind I didn't like TESB when it first came out.

Ya, you should tell that to Roger Ebert. He actually gave Thumbs Down to The Empire Strikes Back in 1980 on the Sneak Previews show. I could not believe he did that, but he did.

Today of course he loves TESB. So even major film critics change their minds.

chinabing
I prefer "Star Wars" (ANH, Ep 4) to either. There was nothing like seeing it again and again in the movie theater. The snappy dialogue is perfect. The universe we were opened up to is incredible. When that big spaceship came over our heads in the first few moments, wow. And the cantina scene, wonderful.

In fact, where were the monsters in "Sith"? Star Wars movies are supposed to be filled with monsters, but the only big alien was the Boga and Kenobi actually rode that like a friendly horse! I mean we've had the Banthas, the space slug, the Rancor & Sarlacc, the Opee sea killer & friends, the 3 arena monsters. I think the lack of a good monster is a serious flaw of "Sith."

But comparing ESB to ROTS, I don't know, they're telling similar but different stories. Empire does have flaws, the writing at times is has hackneyed as any SW movie. (Remember, they didn't "write" the "I know" line, Ford just improvised that!) And while that line is infamous in SW circles, it wouldn't make the top 10 movie lines of all time.

DarthLazious
It's a tie for me.

Moff jango
ROTJ is the best!

kanis
starwars Your right their did not appear to many monsters in it apart from the boga, but maybe their was no need for their to be any it.

Moff jango
Now i saw Rots ROTj's even better

kanis
starwars Of course return of the jedi's better all the original movies are better than the new prequels.

Ani's Girl
I liked ROTJ better than ESB as well. I have a hard time with the beginning of ESB; it feels very slow to me.

My favorites in order:

1. ROTS
2. ROTJ
3. AOTC
4. ESB
5. ANH
6. TPM

Moff jango
Rotj
ANH
ESB
ROTS
TPM
AOTC

jedi-kev
Star Wars and the empire strikes back are the best

jainasolo55
Originally posted by chinabing
Ya, you should tell that to Roger Ebert. He actually gave Thumbs Down to The Empire Strikes Back in 1980 on the Sneak Previews show. I could not believe he did that, but he did.

Today of course he loves TESB. So even major film critics change their minds.


film critics suck if u want an opinion on a movie u should just see it urself and find out

jainasolo55
ESB is my favorite, it always was but not that the saga is complete we should view the movies as one

kanis
starwars I agree, ROTS was too hyped up over here with constant trailers of the film and then when I watched it and enjoyed it wasn't what I expected that much CG.

chinabing
Originally posted by kanis
starwars I agree, ROTS was too hyped up over here with constant trailers of the film and then when I watched it and enjoyed it wasn't what I expected that much CG.

Man, today's movie trailers spoils so much of the story nowadays I completely avoid watching them if it's a movie I will see regardless.

The ROTS trailer showed vader and even the last scene of vader looking over the death star with palpatine! I'm so glad I didn't see the trailer before I saw the movie.

Darth L. Dipsit
I liked ROTS more than, say TPM and AOTC (I really didn't like AOTC because of the stilted script and ludicrity of certain parts, but that is only my sentiment). However, the OT had such good storytelling in it that I cared about the characters - I became involved with them. I actually became attached to people like Leia, Solo, and Luke because I could identify with them. None of the PT movies share that quality, so I couldn't really feel as much a part of them. So, just because ANH was the most meaningful to me, I liked it the best, followed by ESB and ROTJ (it's a close call for me, because I loved the ending scene with Luke and Vader as well as Jabba's palace, though the Ewoks brought an unrealistic element which almost distilled the plot of ROTJ - however, ESB was more dark and saddening, which still brings a certain depth to the table). In order, I would have to say that my SW picks go as follows, or at least something like this:

ANH
ESB
ROTJ
ROTS
TPM
AOTC

BlackC@t
I thought Revenge of The Sith was the best Star Wars movie.

kanis
starwars Unfortunately I saw the trailer for ROTS at least five times before I went to see it, and showing the darth vader emperor at the death star while it was being constructed was suicide.

general gree
Both of them are the same ruling

commander gree
hmmmmm....the bothe movies does the evil dudes win and i like that big grin well they are both the same good

OB1-adobe
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Which was a better movie: The Empire Strikes Back or Revenge of the Sith

U will never get an honest answer. You are dealing with 25 years of bias versus a movie that came out 3 months ago.

end of story. or ask someone 10 years from now who just saw them all for the 1st time.

DeVi| D0do
Empisre Strikes Back.

neo313
ESB has more personal value to me . . . it all comes down to one's own experiences and opinions.

Stunrun
is this thread still open? ESB - hands down!

why not make a thread titled 'Which was the better movie: A New Hope, or The Empire Strikes Back?' - now THAT would be a much more closer racewink

kanis
starwars Their isn't really any contest between ANH and ESB because empire strikes back is way better

SithHappens
1. ESB
2. ANH
3. RotJ
4. RotS
5. TPM
6. AotC

darthvader_fan
Revenge of the Sith Definitly

Red Superfly
Originally posted by SithHappens
1. ESB
2. ANH
3. RotJ
4. RotS
5. TPM
6. AotC

Spot on.

kanis
starwars That's the way I would have it.

chinabing
There are quite a few things that people say about Empire, and they were as hard on it as they are the prequels, they'd say it' sucked.

1. After picking up Luke's X-wing, Yoda should have plopped it back int the swamp water, and made Luke pick it up by himself when he gets strong enough. In fact, Yoda really let Luke go, and possibly ruined the chance for freedom to be restored to the galaxy. Yoda almost failed again.

2. The dialogue in Empire is terribly hackneyed in many places. The Leia & Han dialogue especially.

3. Luke & Lando's acting is very sub-par.

4. The falcon travels between planetary systems... WITHOUT a hyperdrive! That would take years. (Before ROTJ came out nobody knew that x-wings could go hyperspace.)

pr1983
Originally posted by chinabing
There are quite a few things that people say about Empire, and they were as hard on it as they are the prequels, they'd say it' sucked.

1. After picking up Luke's X-wing, Yoda should have plopped it back int the swamp water, and made Luke pick it up by himself when he gets strong enough. In fact, Yoda really let Luke go, and possibly ruined the chance for freedom to be restored to the galaxy. Yoda almost failed again.

2. The dialogue in Empire is terribly hackneyed in many places. The Leia & Han dialogue especially.

3. Luke & Lando's acting is very sub-par.

4. The falcon travels between planetary systems... WITHOUT a hyperdrive! That would take years. (Before ROTJ came out nobody knew that x-wings could go hyperspace.)

whatever faults in dialogue, acting, direction or plot holes, rots was twice as bad...

portman and hayden were bad, portman especially shocking...

the duels were rushed in alot of places, and the dialogue was awful at times...

kanis
starwars To be honest they were like that because really luke and lando never really had a long screen time, you saw lando in the middle of the film like towards the end. And it mainly was focused on the han/leia love and its development. But hardly had any scenes with luke actually learning more stuff.

cool_dudes_rule
i dont know i like both of them.

Sadako of Girth
I'd say 'Empire' for being more well rounded in terms of laughs and moments of warmth balanced against the darkness whereas 'Revenge' was a total dark annihilation fest and the contrived 'droid slapstick merriment' of the first twenty minutes seemed to pale in the face of the naturally flowing humour in 'Empire' to me... I can't fault the currant DVD version of 'Empire' at all really... 'Revenge' was a SW classic, but up against the daddy of them all, it just loses out on the title IMHO..

Just depends what mood you are in at the time regarding the darkness issue, but the attempts to be funny that missed and a ever-so-slightly-lacking-spirit-compard-to-'Empire', kinda screw the pooch for me with 'Revenge'... smile

darthvader_fan
Revenge of the Sith was the best star wars movie because you get to see how Anikan was turned to the dark side and how he became Darth Vader
batman ninja

Sadako of Girth
Yeah but you could also say the same for TPM and AOTC too, but they don't rival either ROTS or ESB....

darthvader_fan
TPM and AOTC were bad movies

Tangible God
Yeah they were, and so was the whole "Vader gets a new look scene."

That NOO! was very disappointing.

chinabing
I disagree, I liked the "Nooo," the point was it kind of was like it was still Anakin under there, and her death meant his journey towards the dark side was complete.

I liked the Artoo and the super battle droid bits. It didn't feel contrived at all, hell with that attitude you may as well say all 6 Star Wars movies were contrived.

And another thing wrong with "Empire," that laffable big ole' space slug. Now if that huge space worm were in the prequels, everyone would be riffing on it as if it were jar jar. But because it's in "Empire" well it's a classic. There's a bit of discrimination between the OT and the PT.

Sadako of Girth
Nope that Space slug never ONCE tried to be annoyingly slapstick.
Nor did it talk like a teletubbie.
Nor did it insult the audiences intelligence.

And it had big f***ing teeth.... stick out tongue

JediRobin23
Originally posted by chinabing
There are quite a few things that people say about Empire, and they were as hard on it as they are the prequels, they'd say it' sucked.

1. After picking up Luke's X-wing, Yoda should have plopped it back int the swamp water, and made Luke pick it up by himself when he gets strong enough. In fact, Yoda really let Luke go, and possibly ruined the chance for freedom to be restored to the galaxy. Yoda almost failed again.

2. The dialogue in Empire is terribly hackneyed in many places. The Leia & Han dialogue especially.


3. Luke & Lando's acting is very sub-par.

4. The falcon travels between planetary systems... WITHOUT a hyperdrive! That would take years. (Before ROTJ came out nobody knew that x-wings could go hyperspace.)

1.) first, Luke didn't believe how strong the force was.

2.) wtf, are you kidding?

3.) over par

4.) man, you suck, how do you know how far it takes to Cloud city???

darthvader_fan
Originally posted by Tangible God
Yeah they were, and so was the whole "Vader gets a new look scene."

That NOO! was very disappointing.

i liked that NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO scene it helped me like the movie even more

kanis
starwars The only thing i don't like about ESB is the fact that they cut off luke's scream as he falls down the large shaft thing.

chinabing
Well either Luke's scream is there, or it isn't. Only in the VHS version of the Special Editions is it there. So it wasn't there for 18 years, was there for 6, now it's removed from the DVDs.

Jar Jar had big teeth too!

Yet another thing wrong with Empire: Han, Leia & Chewie walk outside the Falcon in the Worm wearing nothing but a mask and space snorkel! Where's their pressure suit? Later they just fly right out of the mouth of the Slug into interplanetary space.

And another: Han flys the Falcon straight over the bridge of that Star Destroyer and somehow deploys the landing claw to snatch onto the back of the bridge... and no Imperial hears a thing or notices the collision! We all saw how fast the Falcon was going, it somehow deployed a claw and hooked on to the back of the brigdge without making any noise or noticable shuddering upon contact? At those speeds? Ya roight.

The fact is Yoda almost failed again. He should have dropped the X-Wing back in the swamp and made Luke pick it up. Yoda's point was showing Luke how strong the force was, but it enabled Luke to run away.

And another thing: There was nothing wrong with Luke X-wing after sitting for days in the swamp? He was able to fly away no problemo? If you believe that, I've got some cars in New Orleans to sell you!

FistOfThe North
I liked the "Noo!"

To me, it showed the letting out of Anakins' final cry and humanity.

all that he cared about or was important to him was forever gone in his life until that point, and he just lost it, including all emotions because now, there was nothing to really live for.

the "Noo!" was very powerful, and i couldn't picture ep3 without it.

Tangible God
Neither could I. I also couldn't picture the 3 out of 5 star rating that every newspaper I read gave it, in which they all describe the ending scene as, "a little forced. No pun intended."

FistOfThe North
Originally posted by Tangible God
Neither could I. I also couldn't picture the 3 out of 5 star rating that every newspaper I read gave it, in which they all describe the ending scene as, "a little forced. No pun intended."

Well, I did think everything sort of happened all at once towards the last 20 mins or so.

You know, things I imagined, at least before watching ep. 3, that I figured would take at least some time to happen, all happened all together and kinda fast towards the end.

I mean, did all these important events, and probably some of the top most important events in all six movies, have to happen all at once the way they did in such a short amount of time. Unless the actual time span of these events were chronologically spread out in the form of days or a week or so. I think they were.

kanis
starwars Yeah but could hayden possibly act with more emotion and how dull is it when he says to palpatine "how can a learn this new power" I mean if you asking about something that could save your wave don't you think that you speak more emotionally.
From ANH to ROTj you get to see a wide range of emotions.

FistOfThe North
Originally posted by kanis
starwars Yeah but could hayden possibly act with more emotion and how dull is it when he says to palpatine "how can a learn this new power" I mean if you asking about something that could save your wave don't you think that you speak more emotionally.
From ANH to ROTj you get to see a wide range of emotions.

Good observation.

But in my opinion, I thought Anakin acted in amazing concurrence with the situation/scene when he said "Is it possible to learn this power?"

To me, as he dramatically turned his head slowly, with furrowed eyebrow, while saying that line, he had that perplexing look on his face that was really saying and really wanted to say, "Is it possible "for me" to learn this power?" But he didn't want to say that. I don't think he wanted to show anybody he was interested in the Dark side even if he just slightly was. He wanted everyone, even himself, to know that he was a good Jedi. Always.

That's what I got out of it. And, I think, you'd have to be pretty dramatic to relay a message with subtleties like that one. I thought Hayden pulled it off real well. Save for the British accent, lol

I liked the way Palpatine saw through Anakin on this one by saying "Not from a Jedi" as if he in fact knew, which he probably did, that Anakin actually meant "Is it possible "for me" to learn this power"

Nactous
ESB stomps ROTS, so does ROTJ.

Wally West
Revenge of the Sith is better than Empire. ESB isn't as good as ANH by the way, just thought I'd mention that because ANH gets not nearly enough credit.

Nactous
Oh yeah, sure.

Tangible God
Originally posted by Wally West
Revenge of the Sith is better than Empire. ESB isn't as good as ANH by the way, just thought I'd mention that because ANH gets not nearly enough credit. So your opinion is law, is it?

Tangible God
That "NOOO!" scene was alright...up until he said, "NOOO!"

Looking on it as film critic might, that whole scene was like a Frankenstein remake, the breaking out of the chains, tearing apart the lab, the awkward walking---which, I know WHY he walked like that, but it was just so cheesy.

And then you get the NO. Just adding to the Frankenstein moment. I mean really think about it.

"GRR!" (smashes lab)

(breaks out of chains and limps and stumbles off platform)

"Hey, you killed your wife."

"WHAT!" NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Second time I saw that, I noticed about 10 people all around me in the theatre all kinda turn their heads away when he said it. Out of embarassment for the character, so did I.

Nactous
I know all OT spank ROTS.

jediprson
I think ROTS is better

Nactous
Well, thats your opinion versus everyone else.

jediprson
i mean the OT rulz but i just think ROTS is better than ESB

Nactous
Like I said, thats your opinion.

chinabing
Of course the frankenstein moment was intentional, nothing wrong with that. Star Wars has been derivative every since the first one. John William's stealing themes from "The Magnificent 7," Lucas copying dogfight movies and incorporating them into the trench scenes, etc.

The "Nooo" was a heartbreaking moment. And remember, in times of great tragedy, people say it. All the live footage of world trade center going down, bystanders said "Nooo." Nancy Kerrigan said it on tape when Gilooly hit her knee. Nitpickers are far to hard on Lucas for that line.

And would you be able to walk if you just got new legs soldered on to your knees? It was a wonder he didn't fall flat on his mask. People go through weeks of therapy when they break a leg!

Tangible God
Originally posted by chinabing
Of course the frankenstein moment was intentional, nothing wrong with that. Star Wars has been derivative every since the first one. John William's stealing themes from "The Magnificent 7," Lucas copying dogfight movies and incorporating them into the trench scenes, etc.

The "Nooo" was a heartbreaking moment. And remember, in times of great tragedy, people say it. All the live footage of world trade center going down, bystanders said "Nooo." Nancy Kerrigan said it on tape when Gilooly hit her knee. Nitpickers are far to hard on Lucas for that line.

And would you be able to walk if you just got new legs soldered on to your knees? It was a wonder he didn't fall flat on his mask. People go through weeks of therapy when they break a leg! Nitpickers are what we fans are all about.

But Lucas may steal alot from things, but at least he does it rather subtly. The music, who the Hell is gonna notice that at a glance? The dogfights, well how much else has he got to work with?

But the NO. That wasn't subtle, that was down right obvious, too obvious. And this isn't just MY opinion.

The very first time it showed in my city's theatre, I heard at least what must have been 200 people including myself, say the name, Frankenstein, either during or after the movie. Every paper I read made light of, what they called, a "Frankenstein moment."

Nu-uh, that was one of SW's most embarassing moments, not necessarily the worst, but definetly the most embarassing.

overlord
I like the Empire Strikes Back! Hurray!

Battle of Hoth, cool.. AT-AT's still look like the coolest weapons!
Yoda riding Luke piggie back? Magnificent! How could he restrain himself from kicking the green dwarf against a tree?! Just.. wow.
Bespin was the most original I've seen, battle of Luke and Vader was best I've seen too as the freaking main charactar got owned terribly, Han getting frozen? hahaha! Good for him!

Everyone knows The Empire Strikes Back is the Macbeth of Star Wars.
In conclusion: Me like.

DeVi| D0do
The Empire Strikes Back is the Macbeth of FILM!

Tangible God
It's also the Henry IV of film!

chinabing
Embarrassing? I think not. How could it be embarrassing when deliberatly putting the Frankenstein moment was THE POINT!

Vader is now a monster, and the way he learned to walk was both truthful, and it tapped into movie lovers collective consciousness. And it wasn't stupid; it didn't mock. The emperor didn't go "It's Alive! It's Alive!"

But there's another monster in the Republic, the health care system. Vader gets mask over his whole head because of some burns, and Padme dies of a broken heart? Aye-yi-yi, don't ever get sick in that galaxy!

DeVi| D0do
I thought it was embarrassing when I first saw it. But I still thinks it works. There's a difference.

Tangible God
Originally posted by chinabing
Embarrassing? I think not. How could it be embarrassing when deliberatly putting the Frankenstein moment was THE POINT!

Vader is now a monster, and the way he learned to walk was both truthful, and it tapped into movie lovers collective consciousness. And it wasn't stupid; it didn't mock. The emperor didn't go "It's Alive! It's Alive!"

But there's another monster in the Republic, the health care system. Vader gets mask over his whole head because of some burns, and Padme dies of a broken heart? Aye-yi-yi, don't ever get sick in that galaxy! The suit and her death were already there before the PT trilogy came out, but the Frankenstein moment wasn't.

Just because it was intentional doesn't mean it's not embarassing. Here we've got Darth Vader, most hated enemy and purge of the Jedi, most feared warrior amongst civilians, Rebels and Imperials alike, and they have him yelling 'NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!" like a cry-baby schoolboy. It's cheesy, it's embarassing, it's humiliating for Vader's character, and it was a mistake.

chinabing
Originally posted by Tangible God
Just because it was intentional doesn't mean it's not embarassing. Here we've got Darth Vader, most hated enemy and purge of the Jedi, most feared warrior amongst civilians, Rebels and Imperials alike, and they have him yelling 'NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!" like a cry-baby schoolboy. It's cheesy, it's embarassing, it's humiliating for Vader's character, and it was a mistake.
I've got to disagree with you about the "Nooo" too! Put yourself in Vaders new shoes: You've just found out you've killed your own wife in your anger. (Which is another Sidious lie, but that's not the point here.) The whole reason for turning to the dark side was to save her, thus he killed his whole reason for being. And he's probably thought he killed his unborn child too.

I did not feel it was cheesy or embarassing. I felt heartbroken watching it. That whole scene made me cry, it did, and I've no shame in saying it. Hearing Vader's voice ask about Padme was absolutely chilling. His "Nooo" just broke my heart. "Look what you've done" I kept saying to myself. Look at his face right before it's covered by the mask, it's a face filled with fear.

Vader was never the great Satan, he's Satan's errand boy. His whole life's a tragedy. He did not become a Jedi master nor a Sith master. No wonder he became obsessed with finding Luke, so he could finally become a leader. But Luke made good choices, while Anakin made bad ones.

darthvader_fan
you make an excellent point

i thought i remember hearing that anikan became the new sith lord when he became darth vader

jainasolo55
Originally posted by Darth L. Dipsit
I liked ROTS more than, say TPM and AOTC (I really didn't like AOTC because of the stilted script and ludicrity of certain parts, but that is only my sentiment). However, the OT had such good storytelling in it that I cared about the characters - I became involved with them. I actually became attached to people like Leia, Solo, and Luke because I could identify with them. None of the PT movies share that quality, so I couldn't really feel as much a part of them. So, just because ANH was the most meaningful to me, I liked it the best, followed by ESB and ROTJ (it's a close call for me, because I loved the ending scene with Luke and Vader as well as Jabba's palace, though the Ewoks brought an unrealistic element which almost distilled the plot of ROTJ - however, ESB was more dark and saddening, which still brings a certain depth to the table). In order, I would have to say that my SW picks go as follows, or at least something like this:

ANH
ESB
ROTJ
ROTS
TPM
AOTC

i agree i cant get attacted to the characters in the PT the same way as i do in the OT

jainasolo55
Originally posted by pr1983
whatever faults in dialogue, acting, direction or plot holes, rots was twice as bad...

portman and hayden were bad, portman especially shocking...

the duels were rushed in alot of places, and the dialogue was awful at times...

i agree all of that sucked compared to esb especialy portmans acting sick

*Natalie~Luver*
Empire and Star Wars are still the best in the series. ROTS was sh*t

jainasolo55
Originally posted by kanis
starwars The only thing i don't like about ESB is the fact that they cut off luke's scream as he falls down the large shaft thing.

yeah i hate that but what i REALLY hate is that they changed bobas voice that makes me so angry mad

Canadadude
Boba's old voice was awsome. Very Clint Eastwood in my opinion and Boba was copied from Clint's character in the man with no name western movies

jainasolo55
yeah i dont think there was any need to change his voice so what if he doesnt sounds like jango...i think GL changed too much stuff on the dvds

Darth_Vader05
How did i miss out on this thread im going with Revenge Of The Sith it gave me goosebumps from start to finish and its probably because i saw at the theaters 10 times stood in line for 4 hours for it in costume. I also like the prequal trilogy better than the original trilogy sorry guys im new school.

Adamwankenobi
ROTS was better than ESB.

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