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Juggernaut creates a path of destruction across NYC, the F4 arrive on the scene. Can they stop the Juggernaut's rampage?

They have a pretty balanced team:
Human Torch - flying powerful fire energy being
Thing - good fighter and durable powerhouse
Invisible Woman - invisibility and manipulator of force fields
Reed Richards - genius and stretchable

Remember they work well as a team so don't just count them as individuals but as a well oiled machine

They stalemate, that's about all they can do.

Thing get's K.O'd in 3 hits....again.

Thing will not get KOed, he has backup this time!

Invisible Woman will prob be able to get Juggs helmet off, and then its up to Reeds to figure out a way to attack Juggs mind while the other 3 hold him off

Don't forget Jug's shield.

They stalemate by hiding behind sue's shields.

Otherwise, they die.

Reed can stretch around Juggernaut...

Johnny does his supernova attack...

Sue contains it...

Ben pounds on him...

and then there is nothing left standing except a certain villain laughing and saying...

"Nothing can stop the Juggernaut!"

ahh the joys of life

Alright let's break this down.

The Thing , the physically strongest on the team last time he took on juggernaut he got ko'd in three hits this will happen again ( no forcefield can protect him they have been broken by weaker beings then juggs)

Reed , the smart one of the group his intelligence could prove to be useful here...or not since reed works in science and knows absolutely jack about mysticism he would be taken down in one hit

Johnny , ahh johnny the wild card of the group his flame powers include a supernova stylized attack supposedly about 100,000 degrees . Johnny's attacks are impressive , but useless against Juggernaut who has had a vat of molten steel dumped on him by Deadpool and continued to fight unaffected and awash with flame also spiderman once drove a truck full of gas at him but he walks out of the resulting gas inferno on fire and completely unconcerned. My evidence just about proves jugs flame proof

Sue, Now we have the final member as i said earlier he can shatter her forcefield quite easily (since extended amounts of attack on them cause sue mental pain) and her endurance is that of a ordinary human , but wait ! some fanboy will soon come and say 'But wait fox ur rong sue can just put a invisibel forcefield in his throat!!!!!1111' WRONG

As proved Juggernaut's body doesn't feel any actual pain . The guy has lived through having his flesh magically ripped off i doubt a expanding bubble is going to hurt .

Originally posted by HigH ScholaR


ahh the joys of life


heh.
Yup, I love these kinds of threads.

I don't think it's a stalemate at all. I think Classic Juggernaut murders each one of them.

Originally posted by grey fox
Alright let's break this down.

The Thing , the physically strongest on the team last time he took on juggernaut he got ko'd in three hits this will happen again ( no forcefield can protect him they have been broken by weaker beings then juggs)

Reed , the smart one of the group his intelligence could prove to be useful here...or not since reed works in science and knows absolutely jack about mysticism he would be taken down in one hit

Johnny , ahh johnny the wild card of the group his flame powers include a supernova stylized attack supposedly about 100,000 degrees . Johnny's attacks are impressive , but useless against Juggernaut who has had a vat of molten steel dumped on him by Deadpool and continued to fight unaffected and awash with flame also spiderman once drove a truck full of gas at him but he walks out of the resulting gas inferno on fire and completely unconcerned. My evidence just about proves jugs flame proof

Sue, Now we have the final member as i said earlier he can shatter her forcefield quite easily (since extended amounts of attack on them cause sue mental pain) and her endurance is that of a ordinary human , but wait ! some fanboy will soon come and say 'But wait fox ur rong sue can just put a invisibel forcefield in his throat!!!!!1111' WRONG

As proved Juggernaut's body doesn't feel any actual pain . The guy has lived through having his flesh magically ripped off i doubt a expanding bubble is going to hurt .

A mild inquiry, couldn't reed remove the helmet, and sue make a bubble around his brain or something, just curious.

Nope. There's no way that Sue could enter that second, skin-tight forcefield surrounding Juggernaut. And that's just IF they can break through the first one.

And I'm still trying to figure out how they would get his helmet off.

the fantastic four wins, only torch with his nova atack could fire juggernaut.

Sue could beat juggernaut, once she sees her team mates getting owned, she'll tap into Hyper space, she did this previously against Galactus and Exitar the celestial and put holes through both of them.

Hyper space(infinite amounts of energy)>Enchantment

Originally posted by bakerboy
the fantastic four wins, only torch with his nova atack could fire juggernaut.

so can jubilee

juggernaut wins
ff cant stop him

Originally posted by long pig
They stalemate, that's about all they can do.

Thing get's K.O'd in 3 hits....again.

Thats not nice.

If FF got prep, couldnt Reed make something to contain Juggy in? Trap him somehow?

Originally posted by jrodslam
Thats not nice.

If FF got prep, couldnt Reed make something to contain Juggy in? Trap him somehow?
lol

They probably could, but containment really isn't a win to me.

For good guys it is. As long as the threat is neutralized and the city is safe. Keep Juggy as ornament like Jabba did with Han Solo.

Originally posted by bakerboy
the fantastic four wins, only torch with his nova atack could fire juggernaut.

WRONG jugg's is fire proof didn't you read the evidence . He has stepped ou of raging inferno's before a 'nova blast' wouldn't even register to him



Nope energy i still energy and juggernaut will just walk straight through it

Originally posted by grey fox
WRONG jugg's is fire proof didn't you read the evidence . He has stepped ou of raging inferno's before a 'nova blast' wouldn't even register to him



Nope energy i still energy and juggernaut will just walk straight through it




Do you know that an inferno is nowhere near as hot as when torch goes super nova.

Known Superhuman Powers: The Human Torch possesses the mental ability to control ambient heat energy and the physical ability to envelop his entire body or portions of his body with fiery plasma without harm to himself. (Plasma is a super-heated stated of matter such as exists in the atmosphere of stars.)

Ordinarily, when aflame, the Human Torch is enveloped by a low intensity flame of low level plasma (reddish, approximately 780 Fahrenheit), which ranges from 1 to 5 inches from his body. He can, however, generate much higher levels and flames about himself. The Torch refers to his highest, hottest levels of plasma that he can create as his "nova flame." The exact temperatures that his "nova flame" can attain are not known.

At an average rate of expenditure of energy, the Torch can stay aflame for about 16.8 hours. In his younger days, he could only maintain his flame for much briefer periods, and sometimes exhausted it while in combat. He cannot maintain his "nova flame" for as long a time as he can maintain his ordinary flame. The Torch can release all of his body's stored energy in one intense, omni-directional "nova-burst," which can reach about 1,000,000 F, and which is similar to the heat-pulse of a nuclear warhead detonation, with an are of total devastation of about 900 feet in diameter. (The Torch has claimed that he can destroy a small moon with his nova-burst.) This violent discharge uses his entire reserve of energy (except for the necessary to keep him alive) at once, entirely exhausting his flame power. He generally requires at least 12 hours to recover entirely from such a feat.

The FF are able to contain him as a team and Ben sets his ass down and out to finally shut up his critics. In reference to the BS secret wars crap.

Sue could probably take him down by herself.

FF wins

Originally posted by Tony Stark
Do you know that an inferno is nowhere near as hot as when torch goes super nova.

Known Superhuman Powers: The Human Torch possesses the mental ability to control ambient heat energy and the physical ability to envelop his entire body or portions of his body with fiery plasma without harm to himself. (Plasma is a super-heated stated of matter such as exists in the atmosphere of stars.)

Ordinarily, when aflame, the Human Torch is enveloped by a low intensity flame of low level plasma (reddish, approximately 780 Fahrenheit), which ranges from 1 to 5 inches from his body. He can, however, generate much higher levels and flames about himself. The Torch refers to his highest, hottest levels of plasma that he can create as his "nova flame." The exact temperatures that his "nova flame" can attain are not known.

At an average rate of expenditure of energy, the Torch can stay aflame for about 16.8 hours. In his younger days, he could only maintain his flame for much briefer periods, and sometimes exhausted it while in combat. He cannot maintain his "nova flame" for as long a time as he can maintain his ordinary flame. The Torch can release all of his body's stored energy in one intense, omni-directional "nova-burst," which can reach about 1,000,000 F, and which is similar to the heat-pulse of a nuclear warhead detonation, with an are of total devastation of about 900 feet in diameter. (The Torch has claimed that he can destroy a small moon with his nova-burst.) This violent discharge uses his entire reserve of energy (except for the necessary to keep him alive) at once, entirely exhausting his flame power. He generally requires at least 12 hours to recover entirely from such a feat.

All this means nothing to Jug.
He'd not feel a billion degrees of heat.


Three hits is all it took. And before, it only took eight.
Jug>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ben

Originally posted by Tony Stark


Do you know that an inferno is nowhere near as hot as when torch goes super nova.

And did you know that it really wouldn't matter? Juggernaut can very easily take it, and point at Johnny and laugh right after.

Classic jugg's owns fantastic four EASY ...just accept it people the only way juggs would ever lose is due to PIS

Thank you, Grey Fox.

Although the Jug fans like to lie about it, the THE THING WAS NEVER KO'D IN SECRET WARS II. In fact after he falls down from the surprise of losing his strength upgrade givin to him by Mephisto, HE REACHES UP AND STOPS A MOVING JUGGERNAUT WITH ONE HAND. Juggernauts an idiot and a coward. The FF would certainly throw his ass in the negative zone and let Annihilus eat him.

bump

Give us a scan then...prove it

Anyways, juggs wins, lets move on...

Originally posted by Wynndar
Although the Jug fans like to lie about it, the THE THING WAS NEVER KO'D IN SECRET WARS II. In fact after he falls down from the surprise of losing his strength upgrade givin to him by Mephisto, HE REACHES UP AND STOPS A MOVING JUGGERNAUT WITH ONE HAND. Juggernauts an idiot and a coward. The FF would certainly throw his ass in the negative zone and let Annihilus eat him.

Really, I never saw anything on that. Not calling you out or anything, but this is news to me if it's true.

Its because the Jug fanatics didnt want u to know. I dont have scanner access but maybe Ill do it next week once i move back for school. I just bought the comic last week. I was surprised, it didnt really depict the Thing in a bad way at all...he wasted 98 badguys that were really tough. Then Jugs knocked him down but Thing was able to stop Juggernaut by grabbing his leg and pulling him down. That foiled Mephisto's plan and the Thing "saved the day".

Originally posted by Wynndar
Its because the Jug fanatics didnt want u to know. I dont have scanner access but maybe Ill do it next week once i move back for school. I just bought the comic last week. I was surprised, it didnt really depict the Thing in a bad way at all...he wasted 98 badguys that were really tough. Then Jugs knocked him down but Thing was able to stop Juggernaut by grabbing his leg and pulling him down. That foiled Mephisto's plan and the Thing "saved the day".


Hooray!!!

Big deal. Thing got humiliated by Juggernaut and when he was lying on the ground, almost unconscious, he reached for his leg and made Juggernaut stumble.

Best fight ever lol !!! You have to see it to believe it

He stopped Juggernaut and made him fall on his face...and it was Thing vs 99 villains which included Juggernaut.

yeah but he recived a power up

Dude, I have it right here.

He did not halt Juggernauts forward momentum, he grabbed his leg while on the ground making Jug lose his balance.

Jug all but killed him in 3 hits.

Mephisto multiplied Things strength/durability/stamina 100x over, those 100 villains didn't effect him even in the slightest, only Juggernaut.

Face it, Thing got royally ****ed the hell up.

if i was sue i would cause juggernaut to slip and fall.and maybe reed could trip him up a bit.there is not really much the ff can do.

Originally posted by hawkwind
if i was sue i would cause juggernaut to slip and fall.and maybe reed could trip him up a bit.there is not really much the ff can do.


Sue : "What's our plan of attack Reed?"
Reed: "Well, I'm hoping I can make him trip over something and fall down. Then, while he's standing right back up......we run."

, .

fanboys.

HAHAHAHA Why do u keep bringing up the power up? the Thing had no power up when he took on Jugs. Mephisto destroyed the contract before they fought. And the Thing did succesfully stop Jug's momentum. He didnt lose his balance. The Thing grabbed his leg and Jugs came to a complete and utter stop and fell on his face.

Wynndar's right.

Thing lost his enhancer, Jugs knocked the Thing down, then the Thing made Jugs stumble. . .


That sentence sounds so very wrong for some reason. . .

Why do Jugboys (Jug Fanboys) have to try and lie and say the Thing fought Jugs while enhanced...stop telling that propaganda BS...Thing kept the 99 villains from reaching their goal of touching the Beyonder and that includes Jugs. So Thing won.

Originally posted by Wynndar
HAHAHAHA Why do u keep bringing up the power up? the Thing had no power up when he took on Jugs. Mephisto destroyed the contract before they fought. And the Thing did succesfully stop Jug's momentum. He didnt lose his balance. The Thing grabbed his leg and Jugs came to a complete and utter stop and fell on his face.

Well then, technically he didn't actually stop his momentum then, he was still going before he fell on his face.

I don't think that statement helped Juggernaut though.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Why do Jugboys (Jug Fanboys) have to try and lie and say the Thing fought Jugs while enhanced...stop telling that propaganda BS...Thing kept the 99 villains from reaching their goal of touching the Beyonder and that includes Jugs. So Thing won.

I don't see why they would, it's almost common knowledge that he lost his power-up before Juggernaut reached him.

I think people keep mentioning it because you mentioned it first, except you left out the part that he wasn't tired or phased by any of the previous fights.

It was for all intents and purposes a straight forward and very fair fight, and Thing got beat down in three hits.

I have a feeling you actually believe Thing could beat Jugs since you somehow think he halted his forward momentum even though it's obvious he didn't.

Every time there's a Thing involved thread Tony Stark fanboy brains show us how much boring he can be

About the Thing fight remember Juggernaut was basically teleported away when he was about to touch his target Thing only halted him somewhat. also remember that after that Thing tried to stand up and fell down KOed again.

Originally posted by Tron
Well then, technically he didn't actually stop his momentum then, he was still going before he fell on his face.

I don't think that statement helped Juggernaut though.

Obviously his momentum stopped when his face hit the ground right?

Or did he continually fall?



Bens goal WAS achieved none of the villains ever touched the Beyonder.

Mission complete for The THING.

Get over it k3vilite

Originally posted by Tron
I don't see why they would, it's almost common knowledge that he lost his power-up before Juggernaut reached him.
Correct.

Thing had a HUUUGE power up (from Mephisto), but lost this when he faced Juggernaut. Juggernaut punched him almost litterally into the ground (the famous three punches) and then went for the Beyonder.

Ben, more unconscious than alive and kicking, was laying on the floor, and grabbed Juggernauts foot and made him fall.

Bottomline: with his HUUUUGE powerup, he was kicking ass, but he hadn't faced Juggernaut yet. When he actually did face him, he lost his power up and received a serious beating.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Correct.

Thing had a HUUUGE power up (from Mephisto), but lost this when he faced Juggernaut. Juggernaut punched him almost litterally into the ground (the famous three punches) and then went for the Beyonder.

Ben, more unconscious than alive and kicking, was laying on the floor, and grabbed Juggernauts foot and made him fall.

Bottomline: with his HUUUUGE powerup, he was kicking ass, but he hadn't faced Juggernaut yet. When he actually did face him, he lost his power up and received a serious beating.

Don't you honestly think part of that the surprise factor.

Ben was probably a little nonchalant when he came to Juggs thinking that he was still augmented he could take Juggs punches with ease like he did with the other 99 villains.

It makes sense to me...

It's definitely plausible.

Oh I'm sorry k3vilite.

My bad... That means it is possible that it happened like that.

Originally posted by Tony Stark
Don't you honestly think part of that the surprise factor.

Ben was probably a little nonchalant when he came to Juggs thinking that he was still augmented he could take Juggs punches with ease like he did with the other 99 villains.

It makes sense to me...

It's definitely plausible.

Oh I'm sorry k3vilite.

My bad... That means it is possible that it happened like that. Do you really think that the Thing could beat Juggernaut?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Do you really think that the Thing could beat Juggernaut?

For the record probably not.

But Ben is not going down for the count with 3 punches.

He never did with The HULK, THOR, The DESTROYER, The Champion, Hercules Etc... All of those guys are just as strong as Juggs if not more so.

Juggs biggest attribute is his durability.

It was BS. Just like the rest of the SW stuff.

juggernaut will destory the fantastic four easything will get owned sue will be accidenly steped on reed will be chewd like gum and jonny a siomple thunder clap will shut him up

I agree with Tony Stark. The fight was mroe of a series of dramatic plot twists and not a reliable reference concerning how a straight up fight between the Thing and Jugs would go. Thing has fought plenty of guys who were at least as strong as Jugs and wasnt KOd. The Thing has been knocked through mountains and building and whatever but wasnt knocked out. Jugs just hit him and he hit the ground (not unconscious). It says something about the quality of the writing. Terrax has punched Thing through the top floor of the baxter building to the basement and Thing jus hoped up and served Terrax afterward.

Originally posted by Wynndar
I agree with Tony Stark. The fight was mroe of a series of dramatic plot twists and not a reliable reference concerning how a straight up fight between the Thing and Jugs would go. Thing has fought plenty of guys who were at least as strong as Jugs and wasnt KOd. The Thing has been knocked through mountains and building and whatever but wasnt knocked out. Jugs just hit him and he hit the ground (not unconscious). It says something about the quality of the writing. Terrax has punched Thing through the top floor of the baxter building to the basement and Thing jus hoped up and served Terrax afterward.
FINE!

Four punches and he's out.
Happy?

I think the Thing could take a great fight to Jugs considering that Colossus and Hulk have done it. Furthermore, Thing is highly resourceful and good enough a strategist to lead the FF. Thus, u consider that its the whole FF, which is way to dynamic for Jugs to handle, I think this fight would be very short and very comical.

Originally posted by Wynndar
I think the Thing could take a great fight to Jugs considering that Colossus and Hulk have done it. Furthermore, Thing is highly resourceful and good enough a strategist to lead the FF. Thus, u consider that its the whole FF, which is way to dynamic for Jugs to handle, I think this fight would be very short and very comical.
You said Colossus and Hulk.
Colossus is better than Thing.
Hulk is better than Colossus and Thing.
Hulk is the slugfest king.
Thing isn't going to give a fight to Juggernaut.
Colossus gave him a fight thanks to his major durability and considerable acrobatic skills.
Thing is overrated

Thing isn't even a better fighter.

HAHAHA...Ur just hating on the Thing...and saying colossus is better is simply your opinion. However, the Thing has many more impressive fights and accomplishments on his record. Colossus has beaten: Ord...a sentinel or two....*sigh*

Colossus is Stronger, Faster, Smarter, Better fighter, More Agile, More Durable....Thing is the weak link in the Fantastic Four.

Originally posted by long pig
Colossus is Stronger, Faster, Smarter, Better fighter, More Agile, More Durable....Thing is the weak link in the Fantastic Four. Thing is a weak link?

What are you talking about pig?

Originally posted by Wynndar
HAHAHA...Ur just hating on the Thing...and saying colossus is better is simply your opinion. However, the Thing has many more impressive fights and accomplishments on his record. Colossus has beaten: Ord...a sentinel or two....*sigh*
Colossus knocked off his feet Juggernaut.
I gave Thing respect when he deserve it, instead of making him pushover like you and people like Tony Stark.
Thing has heart, fighting skills which are decent, was able to show his own on major occasions, but nothing more, he's a second level hero in terms of strenght and durability

Originally posted by long pig
Colossus is Stronger, Faster, Smarter, Better fighter, More Agile, More Durable....Thing is the weak link in the Fantastic Four. There is no weak link in the fantastic four. . . each is better equipped to handle different characters/situations.

Plus if it wasn't for thing . . I think there are two other popular heroes that wouldn't be around . . maybe just one though. . .

I'm going to go look that information up again.

They r just hating on the Thing, thats why nothing they say is based on fact or comics. Whats the most imressive thing Colossus has done? He has never demonstrated he was stronger faster or smarter than Thing. I would certainly say Colossus deals with heat better. Thing holds up to punches far better though. Thing and Colossus r not going to be relying on flame resistance in a fight between the two or Juggernaut though.

I say he's the wink link because I think all the people on his team could take him out one on one.

All depends on the writers. Thing was kinda mind controlled once and fought IW...sice he knows her and her powers so well he was able to actually mount an offense against her. Its the same way with the rest. If the FF fought themselves it wouldnt necessarily come down ot who's the most powerful.

Originally posted by Tony Stark
Obviously his momentum stopped when his face hit the ground right?

Or did he continually fall?





His momentum stopped when he stopped walking.

And he stopped walking when his face hit the ground, so there ya go.

Sue could beat Juggernaut the same way she once beat Ben when he was mind conrtolled by Charisma:

Rather than trying to match him force against force, she made hundreds (thousands?) of tiny bubbles in a cloud around the Thing. All he was able to do was slip and fall all over the place. Juggy may be an unstoppable force, but he can and has stumbled. Sue could swath him in marbles long enough for Reed to go get the time stop ray, or whatever Plot Device he can cook up.

Originally posted by Laminator_X
Sue could beat Juggernaut the same way she once beat Ben when he was mind conrtolled by Charisma:

Rather than trying to match him force against force, she made hundreds (thousands?) of tiny bubbles in a cloud around the Thing. All he was able to do was slip and fall all over the place. Juggy may be an unstoppable force, but he can and has stumbled. Sue could swath him in marbles long enough for Reed to go get the time stop ray, or whatever Plot Device he can cook up.

Originally posted by Laminator_X
Sue could beat Juggernaut the same way she once beat Ben when he was mind conrtolled by Charisma:

Rather than trying to match him force against force, she made hundreds (thousands?) of tiny bubbles in a cloud around the Thing. All he was able to do was slip and fall all over the place. Juggy may be an unstoppable force, but he can and has stumbled. Sue could swath him in marbles long enough for Reed to go get the time stop ray, or whatever Plot Device he can cook up.
Your plan falls short after the eleventh word.

Jug isn't Ben. Jug isn't like any other bricks.

Jug doesn't have to walk or even need treading to move unstoppably forward, he just does it through magic, and he'd smash the bubble with it.

Cyttorak's enchantments>>>>>>>>>>>>>1000x bubbles.

Originally posted by Laminator_X
Sue could beat Juggernaut the same way she once beat Ben when he was mind conrtolled by Charisma:

Rather than trying to match him force against force, she made hundreds (thousands?) of tiny bubbles in a cloud around the Thing. All he was able to do was slip and fall all over the place. Juggy may be an unstoppable force, but he can and has stumbled. Sue could swath him in marbles long enough for Reed to go get the time stop ray, or whatever Plot Device he can cook up.

You make a good point, but there's a flaw in that. Like long pig said, Juggernaut is NOT Ben. It'll take a few seconds before Cain gets tired of Sue's mess, and then he erects his own force field and goes on his business of whoopin' ass.

Juggernaut basically is written to be a team destroyer. He is a match for any hero on earth one on one and any team one on one. It's he is and what he does. He takes your best and throws it back ten fold. He has already knocked out Thing in three punches bad writting or not. It wasn't like an Onslaught scenerio where a character was baiscally reworked to fit a story. Thing was Thing Juggernaut was Juggernaut cain wasn't playing around so he decided to take Thing out fast and did it in 3 punches. Human Torch flames don't work on Juggs Sue bubbles won't stop him force fields will only slow him putting bubbles in his body he won't even feel them. Reed needs time come up with anything and probably won't since Jugg is mystical in nature not Reed's field of expertise.

Oh it's been done already. Classic Juggernaut.

Definitely Classic Juggernaut. Newjak hit it right on the nose.

I think the only way they could beat Juggernaut is if Sue and/or Torch shot him/flew him into orbit as fast as they possibly could. Or at least into the ocean or something. Battlefield removal is what I'm saying.

Also, I think I might of replied to this thread already. And said the same thing.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
I think the only way they could beat Juggernaut is if Sue and/or Torch shot him/flew him into orbit as fast as they possibly could. Or at least into the ocean or something. Battlefield removal is what I'm saying.

Also, I think I might of replied to this thread already. And said the same thing.

Won't work.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t308157.html

Check out the section labeled "Leaving the field" posted by Tron.

What about it? We all know Juggernaut can walk on nothing but that would take a million billion years.

Jugs didnt KO Thing
Originally posted by Tron
His momentum stopped when he stopped walking.

And he stopped walking when his face hit the ground, so there ya go.


Flames do hurt Classic Jugs, nightcrawler did it with a torch....Human torch would wear his face out with Nova flame

I imagine his helmet would have to protect him from IW's force field to soem degree....but remove it and she could use a field to dislocate his nervous system just like Nimrod did. She also makes his retinas invisible limiting his poor fighting skills even further.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Jugs didnt KO Thing



Flames do hurt Classic Jugs, nightcrawler did it with a torch....Human torch would wear his face out with Nova flame

I imagine his helmet would have to protect him from IW's force field to soem degree....but remove it and she could use a field to dislocate his nervous system just like Nimrod did. She also makes his retinas invisible limiting his poor fighting skills even further.

Like I said juugernat has laughed of an exploding oil tanker. Deadpool poured a large vat of Molten steel on him and he din't even blink he didn'te even use hsi force feild. Even when depowered he still walked out of a exploding building after that werewolf Lobo hit a gas vein and blew it up.

So if you want to desperetly cling to some past contrivence (also his face didn't evne looked burned afterwards wo he might have jsut been talking out of his ass) to state your point it just looks ridicoulous.

exploding oil tanker does not reach the temperature of a star. Molten Lava? Torch's normal surface temperature VAPORIZES iron.

I'm desperately clinging? Why all this defamiting language? I'm talking about facts...If i wanted to get highly opinionated I would point out the fact that Jugs routinely loses to crime fighters like Spiderman and the X-Men while the F4 four fight space gods like the celestials.

Juggernaut was beaten by Nimrod, rather easily, by having his synapses dislocated. IW can place a forcefield in his nervous system...she could also destroy his brain but thats no fun.

IW could also turn his eyes invisible...then he would be blind...and even worse at h2h.

IW could make her and her teammates invisible...whats Jugs going to do then? use his heat seeking/dna detecting/sonic radar powers to find them?

IW's powers have shattered Exitar the Celestials armor, blasted a gaping hole in Galactus' chest, mystically protected or not, Juggernaut is going to be hard pressed to resist hyperspace itself.

The Torch has blasted a hole through the Earth into the core and expaned the planet...he can destroy the whole environment Juggernaut is working with.

Juggernaut was hurt when Nightcrawler hit him in the face with a torch in their first fight. He was utterly thrashed by Onslaught and turned into a coward. He was tought how to fly by Hulk. He was punched in his stomach, fell to his knees and was knocked out by a psionic backlash of the Hulk's. He was nearly killed by Nimrod. Juugernaut is not unstoppable...he has been beaten in almost every comic book he's appeared in.

Originally posted by Wynndar
exploding oil tanker does not reach the temperature of a star. Molten Lava? Torch's normal surface temperature VAPORIZES iron.

I'm desperately clinging? Why all this defamiting language? I'm talking about facts...If i wanted to get highly opinionated I would point out the fact that Jugs routinely loses to crime fighters like Spiderman and the X-Men while the F4 four fight space gods like the celestials.

Juggernaut was beaten by Nimrod, rather easily, by having his synapses dislocated. IW can place a forcefield in his nervous system...she could also destroy his brain but thats no fun.

IW could also turn his eyes invisible...then he would be blind...and even worse at h2h.

IW could make her and her teammates invisible...whats Jugs going to do then? use his heat seeking/dna detecting/sonic radar powers to find them?

IW's powers have shattered Exitar the Celestials armor, blasted a gaping hole in Galactus' chest, mystically protected or not, Juggernaut is going to be hard pressed to resist hyperspace itself.

The Torch has blasted a hole through the Earth into the core and expaned the planet...he can destroy the whole environment Juggernaut is working with.

Juggernaut was hurt when Nightcrawler hit him in the face with a torch in their first fight. He was utterly thrashed by Onslaught and turned into a coward. He was tought how to fly by Hulk. He was punched in his stomach, fell to his knees and was knocked out by a psionic backlash of the Hulk's. He was nearly killed by Nimrod. Juugernaut is not unstoppable...he has been beaten in almost every comic book he's appeared in. I like this you take the opposing at their best and the other at their worst wow I must say good debating idea but not stout. Nimrod was PIS where they needed him to beat Juggs so they could show just how bad he is same with Onslaught even though the Onslaught one was really terrible. Anyway Juggs has survived having his flesh and organs stripped from him and being nothing but bones yet he still moved and he still spoke as a matter of fact. He has survived having been placed in a raging inferno. Has beaten Hulk to almost death and would have if he wasn't told to stop. He has already punched Thing out in three punches. He gets beat in almost every comic he is in because he is the villain causing massive damage so he has to loose someway. Which is always by telepathic attack or teleportation. Sometimes they use other things which don't make sense like the Nimrod thing since he has been stripped of all his flesh and still moved without muscles yet a little attack that messes up his nervous system puts him down it just doesn't add up. Anyway a well written Juggernaut basically beats any team on Earth or any hero on Earth.

*Shrug*

So all the low showing of Juggernaut mean nothing but PIS eh? U cant objectively look at his career. Juggernaut getting beat is not a "new idea" He's been getting stopped, moved, and beaten his whole career. Thing sucks cuz he got knocked down by Juggernaut...yet Colossus knocked Jugs on his ass and it wasn't PIS? And Colossus is superior to Thing? See where I get the sense of pro-X-Men bias?

Everyone has the opportunity to subjectively observe Juggernaut's career. He has lost in almost each of his appearances, even as a hero. Eventually u have to except its not PIS...I consider it PIS when he does something impressive.

Anyway thanks for at least listening to some of my examples and argument like Nimrod. Even though there's no reason for me to disbelieve Nimrod or any other high-tech kicking his ass. Jugs had his flesh ripped away in one instance of his career in a mystical realm against D'Spayre a mystical being who's powers are generally of the reality warping/illusion type.

Originally posted by Wynndar
exploding oil tanker does not reach the temperature of a star. Molten Lava? Torch's normal surface temperature VAPORIZES iron.

I'm desperately clinging? Why all this defamiting language? I'm talking about facts...If i wanted to get highly opinionated I would point out the fact that Jugs routinely loses to crime fighters like Spiderman and the X-Men while the F4 four fight space gods like the celestials.

Juggernaut was beaten by Nimrod, rather easily, by having his synapses dislocated. IW can place a forcefield in his nervous system...she could also destroy his brain but thats no fun.

IW could also turn his eyes invisible...then he would be blind...and even worse at h2h.

IW could make her and her teammates invisible...whats Jugs going to do then? use his heat seeking/dna detecting/sonic radar powers to find them?

IW's powers have shattered Exitar the Celestials armor, blasted a gaping hole in Galactus' chest, mystically protected or not, Juggernaut is going to be hard pressed to resist hyperspace itself.

The Torch has blasted a hole through the Earth into the core and expaned the planet...he can destroy the whole environment Juggernaut is working with.

Juggernaut was hurt when Nightcrawler hit him in the face with a torch in their first fight. He was utterly thrashed by Onslaught and turned into a coward. He was tought how to fly by Hulk. He was punched in his stomach, fell to his knees and was knocked out by a psionic backlash of the Hulk's. He was nearly killed by Nimrod. Juugernaut is not unstoppable...he has been beaten in almost every comic book he's appeared in.

I didn't think it was insulting but if it was then I retract the words.

This doesn't change the outcome.

There is far more evidence to support the belif that Juugernatu is indeed fireproof. While you only have one inceidnet, where he didn't acually show any sign of being hurt except for what he said, to say that he can be hurt by fire. Meaning you think Torch's flames cna become hot enough but that isn't based on anything while the belif that Juggs is immune to flame is based onhis feats.

Now Juugernat has with stood the Godblast that shattered a celestial sheild and sent Galactus packing for his life, without a scratch and that is a Mystical Attack, which he actaully has some vulnerabilty to unlike Torch's entiely psycial attack. So it is safe to say that if the God blast which has done things comparable to what Sue and Johhny have done wiht the maximum use of their powers is it not safe to say then that the powers would only slightly affect him?

Nimrod would own the Fantastic Four, in a no prep fight. Reed would be the only one of use there but that is neither here nor there. He took vision sticking his hand into his head so I don't see why sue's focefield would be any different.

As for the Hulk, the hulk doesn't have any psychic powers so how could he get hurt by a psychic backlash from the Hulk? Mayhaps you have your facts mistaken?

The Hulk got knocked the **** out by Juggernaut, it just took him a couple more hits than it did to knock out Thing. The most Hulk ever did was toss him around or kncok him down but the Hulk never knocked him out under hsi own power.

Of course he isn't unstoppable, its hyperbole because he has been stopped on occasion, this doesn't hlep the Fantastic Four any though. How do you even know that Sue's force feilds could get through to juggernat's eyse or Brain? You don't. Who cares if Storm Blows up the planet Juggernaut doesn't can survive in space. They all turn invisible? Foot stomp or Handclap and Sue's force feilds colapse from the backlash.

Beating Juggernaut is a very specific task. I don't see the FF having the tools to pull it off. You pretty much need psionic power to do it, which is a big, gaping hole in the FF's arsenal.

While the neural disruptor is not PIS, IMO, I will say that ever being burned or melted or whatever is, given all the evidence to the contrary. I'll chalk that up to Juggernaut not having his forcefield activated, which he'll most certainly have for this fight.

Sue, by the way, couldn't replicated what Nimrod did. Juggernaut is immune to physical attacks. While it's good thinking that Sue could disrupt Juggernaut's nervous system, it would be a physical attack simulating a neurological attack....it wouldn't work the way an actual neurological attack would.

This site gives a good explanition of Classic Juggs powers. Looking at them, I just can't see the FF even scratching this guy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juggernaut_%28comics%29#Powers_and_abilities

Nimrod hurt Jugs with tight beam sonics and then paralyzed him with a synapsis dislocator which apparently intercepted the electrochemical impulses in his central nerve system...both physical attacks.

F4 go invisible and the fight goes no where.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Nimrod hurt Jugs with tight beam sonics and then paralyzed him with a synapsis dislocator which apparently intercepted the electrochemical impulses in his central nerve system...both physical attacks.

F4 go invisible and the fight goes no where.


I can buy Nimrod figuring out a way to hurt Juggs as he was designed to hunt down mutants (I suppose even mutants with mystical powers) and is the most advanced sentinel ever made. But I can't see the FF being able to figure out a way to hurt Juggs in the middle of a fight. Give Reed some prep time and enough info on how Juggs powers work and maybe they could think of something. I think dealing with a pissed off Juggernaut will be a little too distracting.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Nimrod hurt Jugs with tight beam sonics and then paralyzed him with a synapsis dislocator which apparently intercepted the electrochemical impulses in his central nerve system...both physical attacks.


It was the sonics specifically that screwed up his synapses. Because Juggernaut can hear, his ears are sensitive to sound vibrations, meaning he's vulnerable to that kind of technique. Sue's fields can't replicate sonics.

I contend that Juggernaut can take down the FF with a sonic attack far more readily than vice-versa. And Sue is also vulnerable to it since she can hear as well.



Well that's a silly draw, isn't it?

He probably has already thought of something...the F4 already have strategies for fighting most everyone they know exist, i.e. when they fought Aron (Much more powerful than Juggernaut).

And um...Juggernaut is not a mutant...jus so u know

F4 go invisible and the fight goes no where.

yea, hiding in fear should count as a loss, shouldn't it?

They could be invisble and fight and just fight him until they get tired and take him out of the environment....they still win.

Thing and Torch and Kristoff fought Aron it was no prep but they already had a contingency plan for it...then Aron pulled a bunch of characters out of the timestream against them: weaklings like psychoman and wizard, up to powerhouses like Hulk, Gladiator, Silver Surfer, Anihilus, and Dr. Doom. Aron was disguised as Uatu at the time. Uatu is their Watcher Ally. So if the F4 have a plan to fight one of their allies who is a serious cosmic powerhouse nearly as old as the universe...I think they have a contingency plan to fight an Earth villain who robs banks and got beat by Spiderman.

Originally posted by Wynndar
They could be invisble and fight and just fight him until they get tired and take him out of the environment....they still win.

Thing and Torch and Kristoff fought Aron it was no prep but they already had a contingency plan for it...then Aron pulled a bunch of characters out of the timestream against them: weaklings like psychoman and wizard, up to powerhouses like Hulk, Gladiator, Silver Surfer, Anihilus, and Dr. Doom. Aron was disguised as Uatu at the time. Uatu is their Watcher Ally. So if the F4 have a plan to fight one of their allies who is a serious cosmic powerhouse nearly as old as the universe...I think they have a contingency plan to fight an Earth villain who robs banks and got beat by Spiderman.


Hey Spiderman beat Firelord TOO!!!!!

Juggernaut was a villian and (like other villians) mostly used as connon fodder to be beaten by the top line superheroes, so I don't hold it against him. I'm not saying that the FF are pushovers but looking at Classic Juggs powers and theirs, I just don't see how they could beat him without PIS or ultimate de-jugger-fier. If they had a psi user on their team, I think they would have a shot, but they lack the ability to exploit his main weakness

Juggernauts weakness: unresourceful, slow, regular senses, no flight, no intelligence, no strategy, no energy projection...

Originally posted by Wynndar
Juggernauts weakness: unresourceful, slow, regular senses, no flight, no intelligence, no strategy, no energy projection...

True, but can anyone think of a way that the FF could expolit thoes and actually beat Classic Juggs?

Originally posted by Wynndar
He probably has already thought of something...the F4 already have strategies for fighting most everyone they know exist, i.e. when they fought Aron (Much more powerful than Juggernaut).

And um...Juggernaut is not a mutant...jus so u know

When did I say he was a mutant???

And, realistically, they couldn't have a fighting stragety MEMORIZED for everyone they know. It might be in a computer file in the Baxter Building but thats not going to do a hell of a lot of good.

Originally posted by Wynndar
They could be invisble and fight and just fight him until they get tired and take him out of the environment....they still win.

Thing and Torch and Kristoff fought Aron it was no prep but they already had a contingency plan for it...then Aron pulled a bunch of characters out of the timestream against them: weaklings like psychoman and wizard, up to powerhouses like Hulk, Gladiator, Silver Surfer, Anihilus, and Dr. Doom. Aron was disguised as Uatu at the time. Uatu is their Watcher Ally. So if the F4 have a plan to fight one of their allies who is a serious cosmic powerhouse nearly as old as the universe...I think they have a contingency plan to fight an Earth villain who robs banks and got beat by Spiderman.

The idea that the FF has a contingency plan for fighting every villain is complete conjecture and doesn't mean anything if the plan isn't put into effect. Black Panther says he has a plan to fight and defeat Galactus - no joke. But I don't take it seriously until I see it. The X-men have programmed and fought against every villain in their Danger Room and have said they have plans against everybody too. But until it happens, I don't buy that, either. So I likewise won't buy it with the Fantastic Four. I mean, what's their no-prep plan for fighting the Shadow King? And I can't possibly see how they could have a plan for fight Uatu, who could pretty much snap them out of existence.

Unless the plan consists of running and screaming.

Originally posted by demigawd
The idea that the FF has a contingency plan for fighting every villain is complete conjecture and doesn't mean anything if the plan isn't put into effect. Black Panther says he has a plan to fight and defeat Galactus - no joke. But I don't take it seriously until I see it. The X-men have programmed and fought against every villain in their Danger Room and have said they have plans against everybody too. But until it happens, I don't buy that, either. So I likewise won't buy it with the Fantastic Four. I mean, what's their no-prep plan for fighting the Shadow King? And I can't possibly see how they could have a plan for fight Uatu, who could pretty much snap them out of existence.

Unless the plan consists of running and screaming.

Amen

Originally posted by Wynndar
Thing sucks cuz he got knocked down by Juggernaut...yet Colossus knocked Jugs on his ass and it wasn't PIS? And Colossus is superior to Thing? See where I get the sense of pro-X-Men bias?

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