Fantastic Four vs X-Men

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Maximum
Fantastic Four
Mr.Fantastic
Invisable Women
The Thing
Human Tourch

Vs.

Wolverine
Storm
Cyclopse
Emma Frost

Who Would Win????

Might Be A Stupid Battle But I'm Bord

Wynndar
yea...cuz the FF would trash them...u need more X-Men to challenge the FF

stormfront13
I'd say x-men. emma mind-wipes the ones she can, and storm and cykle take out the rest

Cosmic Flame
I don't know about that...All Emma needs is one. If Emma gets a hold of Sue, game over.

Wynndar
The FF have tech defenses against TP's even more powerful then Emma ie when Reed tested X-Man's powers...he was pretty good against the Thing and Torch...he even managed to take away the Thing's anti TP device. But he was still schooled by IW...

stormfront13
but the ff don't always have their psi protectors with them. even if somehow emma can't get sue, then she should be able to get everyone else, then it's the x-men Vs sue.

Wynndar
Thats undetermined...Reed has demonstrated he either always has them or that his physiology protects him...at least when Claremont was writing FF.

stormfront13
I have seen them taken down by tp assualt, i don't have the issue number or anything, but I saw it in the comic shop. storm makes some massive fog, then emma can touch reeds forehead and generate some intense pain.

Wynndar
hmmm yea...that sounds like a clear win for the X-guys

stormfront13
that was just explaining what could happen to reed. storm can take on human torch(if he isn't wiped by emma first). wolverine and cyke can at least hold off the thing(once again if emma doesn't take him first). emma can take reed while storm keeps sue busy. or emma could mind control the thing to pummel on sues fields weakening her, while the other x-men take on the f4. emma can make johnny have an orgasm leaving storm able to take him out. same goes for reed with storm. the x-men should win this with emma and storm.

Wynndar
well I guess that would happen if u got a contract to write bad comic books for an X-men title. However, thats a really one sided depiction of the FF fighting the X-Men. And in X4 didnt IW beat Emma to the draw and knock her out? Um Yea....and then what? the FF seriously over power and stomp all over those other 3. But Im painting a bias picture too cuz Im an FF fan. Anyway, Comics have already shown the FF beat out telepaths and Sue beat Emma. Those r facts.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by stormfront13
emma can make johnny have an orgasm leaving storm able to take him out. same goes for reed with storm. the x-men should win this with emma and storm.
That's... um... graphic...

Anyway I don't think the standard no-prep FF would be telepath-immune. So I'd assume at the very least Thing and Torch are hers to command, which makes the fight 6 vs 2. Not sure about the Reed's physiology protects him thing. Sue would likely put up the most resistance, so it could end up being 7 vs 1. At which point Sue would be overwhelmed.

Tron
Editing title.

Next time, you MUST state the opponents in your threads, or it will be closed.

stormfront13
Originally posted by Wynndar
well I guess that would happen if u got a contract to write bad comic books for an X-men title. However, thats a really one sided depiction of the FF fighting the X-Men. And in X4 didnt IW beat Emma to the draw and knock her out? Um Yea....and then what? the FF seriously over power and stomp all over those other 3. But Im painting a bias picture too cuz Im an FF fan. Anyway, Comics have already shown the FF beat out telepaths and Sue beat Emma. Those r facts.

whose to say emma will be fighting sue in this? emma can take control over ben and johnny. she can make the thing hit sues shields with all he has and have johnny try and attack her hile attacking reed as well. sue won't have her shield up for long with the thing attacking it. and if she takes to she skies then she has storm and johnny to worry about. she will be distracted with storm leaving johnny attacking her shields, and vice-versa. storm can trap reed in a pressure field, and keep him there for a while. just face it, i know yoiu are a f4 fan, but with storm and emma the x-men win this.

Metalmanx
This fight really doesn't make sense to me.

Emma can end the fight in less than a nanosecond. She'll just destroy all the FF's mind instantly. Game over. Wolverine doesn't even have time to unsheath his claws. The FF fall by the time the "snikt!" sound occurs.

leonheartmm
not true, they are all{specially reed and sue} very resistant to telepathy, sue alone can destroy most of the x men, she blasted a hole through galactus's chest once and has stood countless force blasts from galactus while johhny can create heat equal to that of a heart of a supernova.

BstrdMan
Hmmmm...
At first it'd go...
Thing versus Wolverine
Storm versus Johnny at first
Cyke versus Reed.

Progression

Wolverine takes down Thing, assuming his claws can work. If Wolverine can tangle with the Hulk, he can definitely tangle with Ben.
Emma keeps Sue distracted for the time being. If her powers are stronger, she just knocks her out. Battle of wills, sort of thing.
Storm alternates wind patterns, as well as pelting Johnny with lightning. If she can somehow find a way to create a vacuum around him, lack of oxygen means no flame, and he'd pass out.
Cyke would keep Reed all around with his optic blasts. He may not damage him, but it would be disorienting.
After Thing and Johnny go down, Wolverine joins with Cyke, and Storm with Emma.
As elastic as Reed is, it'd be like tossing rubber latex into a shredder.
And Storm could just freeze Sue in her little bubble. Compound it enough, and you get some unbearable pressure.

xmarksthespot
Where does the resistance stem from? Are you saying the FF have never fallen to telepathy?

CorderaMitchell
There is none, the FF are losing today, some don't like that too much.
It is hard to make a REALLY good match anyways...
I will say they would win if this was planned for, but telepaths are the turning point of almost any battle anyways.

BstrdMan
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
There is none, the FF are losing today, some don't like that too much.
It is hard to make a REALLY good match anyways...
I will say they would win if this was planned for, but telepaths are the turning point of almost any battle anyways.
Yeah.. Just look at the quality of the plots for the movies. laughing

CorderaMitchell
Originally posted by BstrdMan
Yeah.. Just look at the quality of the plots for the movies. laughing wink

ZephroCarnelian
In a physical fight, the Fantastic Four have the advantage.

To be honest - I don't see Logan as being any kind of threat to Thing.

ZephroCarnelian
And the impact that left Logan dazed and di nothing to Ben...?

CorderaMitchell
Someone's going to swear UP and DOWN otherwise.

I'll just say he shouldn't be, but now he is anyways.

xmarksthespot
It's a moot point though because Emma Frost makes Ben orgasm to death before he has a chance to do anything.

CorderaMitchell
too true...

ZephroCarnelian
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
It's a moot point though because Emma Frost makes Ben orgasm to death before he has a chance to do anything.

lol! laughing

BstrdMan
Yeah.. That's what we need... Ben spraying pebbles everywhere...

stormfront13
the x-men win this, with emma and storm

Zahit
Originally posted by stormfront13
the x-men win this, with emma and storm
then again, you think Storm can beat Dr. Doom by herself....

CorderaMitchell
ouch...

Zahit
truth always hurts. stormfront thinks storm is a god!!!
read what he was saying here:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=363265&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=2

stormfront13
and by all the evidance in the comics, she is destined to become a goddess. it's not my fault that you have no knolwge of the character

xmarksthespot
Well, in truth Emma is the one who would win this. So it would be better to either say Emma and the team win or Emma wins. I don't see why Storm should have honourable mention. Tagging her on to Emma's victory doesn't make it hers.
It's like saying "Emma and Wolverine beat the FF."

CorderaMitchell
Originally posted by Zahit
truth always hurts. stormfront thinks storm is a god!!!
read what he was saying here:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=363265&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=2 Shit there are 2 of these threads, three including the one with spiderman....

Emma can win this alone for the most part though... no expression

stormfront13
i included storm because if something goes wrong, then emma has storm there. what if emma doesnt mind-wipe instantley, she can't beat the f4 by herself. and I never said tagging storm with emma made it her victory, but if emma does something wrong then she loses. that's why I said the x-men win with emma and storm.

CorderaMitchell
I can understand that then...

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by stormfront13
i included storm because if something goes wrong, then emma has storm there. what if emma doesnt mind-wipe instantley, she can't beat the f4 by herself. and I never said tagging storm with emma made it her victory, but if emma does something wrong then she loses. that's why I said the x-men win with emma and storm.
Emma is Cyke's girlfriend. If she's in a bind he's not gonna step up? He'll just stand there and watch.

stormfront13
hmmmmm.....and what's he gonna do? cAn't take sue, can't take ben, can't take johnny, and it's doubtful he could take reed.

CorderaMitchell
He should be able to keep ben at bay...

xmarksthespot
Why couldn't a well aimed optic blast take out Johnny?
Storm can't take Sue either...

CorderaMitchell
It could, but he is capable of more, but since this is a CIS fight ( no brain bubbles, ultrablasts, and supernovas), then I'd say he could power blast ben, and perhaps reed.

Wynndar
Reed and Thing have taken the optic blast before with no problem.

Tha C-Master
It could keep them at bay, I didn't think it was going to be lethal at any rate...

Droopy
X men because if wolverine can infiltrate their base and mess up the thing I am pretty sure Emma could go at it with Invisible chick. and storm could take care of torch and reed but it is still hard to figure out who wins because reed is real smart and he could find a way to win.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by Droopy
X men because if wolverine can infiltrate their base and mess up the thing I am pretty sure Emma could go at it with Invisible chick. and storm could take care of torch and reed but it is still hard to figure out who wins because reed is real smart and he could find a way to win. no expression

EsteemedLeader
Originally posted by Droopy
X men because if wolverine can infiltrate their base and mess up the thing I am pretty sure Emma could go at it with Invisible chick. and storm could take care of torch and reed but it is still hard to figure out who wins because reed is real smart and he could find a way to win.

what.the.hell...does that mean?

wannabe
Originally posted by Droopy
X men because if wolverine can infiltrate their base and mess up the thing I am pretty sure Emma could go at it with Invisible chick. and storm could take care of torch and reed but it is still hard to figure out who wins because reed is real smart and he could find a way to win.
Reed is more than just smart when it comes to sciences, but he is not a tactical genius. perhaps he could find a way to beat the X-Men, but it would cost some time Ororo and her team won't give him.

Droopy
Dudes I meant that is the fight could go either way.

wannabe
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Why couldn't a well aimed optic blast take out Johnny?
Storm can't take Sue either...
Why couldn't Storm take Sue?
When Crystal was part of the team, she wasn't able to fire fire blasts through Sue's shield, BUT she was able to manipulate the atmosphere within the forcebubble...and so to win!
Why shouldn't Storm, who is far more acomplished at controling the elements, not be able to do the same???

Droopy
Hey couldn't storm create a big cloud of rain on johnny and throw a tornado at him I mean she could blow the candle out that way big grin

stormfront13
wait!? crystal could manipulate the atmosphere inside the field? then storm can beat sue

wannabe
Originally posted by Droopy
Hey couldn't storm create a big cloud of rain on johnny and throw a tornado at him I mean she could blow the candle out that way big grin
She did it with Pyro once, why not with the Torch?!

Originally posted by stormfront13
wait!? crystal could manipulate the atmosphere inside the field? then storm can beat sue
Yes she did and yes she can!

xmarksthespot
Combination of factors why I don't think Storm can beat Sue. Sue is invisible, her field is nigh impenetrable by Storm's in character attacks, her attacks are invisible making it impossible for Storm to dodge them.

Wynndar
Crystal did it to invisible GIRL...not Invisible Woman. And Reed is one of the best strategists in Marvel...any X-man compared to hi is a joke. In fact all the FF characters with the exception of the Torch have lead the FF quite efficiently against cosmic and big earthly threats. Go read an issue of FF...they have a strategy for every contingency...When Aron was masquerading as Uatu IW just yelled out an attack pattern that they had planned in case their Watcher allie ever turned on them. They have already fought the X-Men a few times, Im sure they have a strategy for the too. X-Men better strategists? WTF

wannabe
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Combination of factors why I don't think Storm can beat Sue. Sue is invisible, her field is nigh impenetrable by Storm's in character attacks, her attacks are invisible making it impossible for Storm to dodge them.
Ororo doesn't need not to see Sue, just need to "see" her breath or her effect on surrounding air or sense her bioelectricity...
As long as Sue is a corporeal being and needs to breath she can't shield herself from Ms. Munroes manipulations of air.
When the kenyan Goddes fights "in character", can i assume that Sue does too? If the answer is: Yes, the "in character" is not a drawback at all.
Originally posted by Wynndar
Crystal did it to invisible GIRL...not Invisible Woman.
And the blue eyed Orphan did not develope her abilities since then?
Originally posted by Wynndar
And Reed is one of the best strategists in Marvel...any X-man compared to hi is a joke. In fact all the FF characters with the exception of the Torch have lead the FF quite efficiently against cosmic and big earthly threats.
"A joke"? Using strong expressions doesn't make an opinion more valid!
Reed is certainly a scientific super genius and a good strategist, but he is not at all a better tactician then Cyclops or Storm. And apart from them Nightcrawler, Archangel, Havoc and Emma lead the X-Men pretty efficient as well.
Originally posted by Wynndar
Go read an issue of FF...they have a strategy for every contingency...When Aron was masquerading as Uatu IW just yelled out an attack pattern that they had planned in case their Watcher allie ever turned on them. They have already fought the X-Men a few times, Im sure they have a strategy for the too.
I do read the issues of the FF...because i'm a fan of them...surprised?
And to their preplanned attack patterns i just say: Xavier and his X-Protocols
Originally posted by Wynndar
X-Men better strategists? WTF
Who said that?huh

xmarksthespot
The X-Men win imo but Storm does not take out IW. Emma Frost's telepathy does.
I wrote "in character" so that stupid things like sun lasers wouldn't enter the discussion. Electrifying the air blahblahblah isn't Storm's style either.
Storm's abilities to sense bioelectricity are dubious. She has been snuck up on by visible foes before. Her ability to affect the inside of one of IW's protective forcefield's is also in doubt as Invisible Girl pales significantly in comparison to Invisible Woman.

BTW the Xavier Protocols are strategies Xavier compiled to defeat his X-Men, in case any of them ever went rogue. They have nothing to do with the FF.

RogerRamjet
mh...X-Men...because Wolverine would thrash them single handedly
he'd cut Grimm into pieces, the same with Mr. Fantastic...Storm would take on Johnny Storm...(hehe)..which is by far the most intresting battle but Storm wins it in close one..Emma Frost has little problems with the invisible girl...

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by RogerRamjet
mh...X-Men...because Wolverine would thrash them single handedly
huh Wolverine is near obsolete in this fight...

wannabe
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The X-Men win imo but Storm does not take out IW. Emma Frost's telepathy does.
I wrote "in character" so that stupid things like sun lasers wouldn't enter the discussion. Electrifying the air blahblahblah isn't Storm's style either.
Storm's abilities to sense bioelectricity are dubious. She has been snuck up on by visible foes before. Her ability to affect the inside of one of IW's protective forcefield's is also in doubt as Invisible Girl pales significantly in comparison to Invisible Woman.

BTW the Xavier Protocols are strategies Xavier compiled to defeat his X-Men, in case any of them ever went rogue. They have nothing to do with the FF.
I think Emmas TP(and not Ororo) will knock out Sue too. Just wanted to make clear that Ms.Munroe sure has a chance to do so as well!

Lightning is nothing but ionised, and so electrified, air...not her style?

Being snuck up on by invisible foes you don't know of and fighting an opponent from whom you know she is able to turn invisible are two severely different things!

I checked the issue with Crystal...Sue was refered to as Invisible Woman...and even if it would not be so, the Weatherwitch's powers now are severely stronger than Crystals were back then...that would compensate for Sue's advancements.

Sure is, that we will never know for sure until those two meet in a one on one fight!
invisiblewoman v. storm two truly impressive women...mmmh

Pointinel
@wannabe

nice sig dude! howd you do that?

wannabe
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
BTW the Xavier Protocols are strategies Xavier compiled to defeat his X-Men, in case any of them ever went rogue. They have nothing to do with the FF.
I know...Wynndar was saying:They have already fought the X-Men a few times, Im sure they have a strategy for the too.
...so i mentioned preplanning on the X-Mens side, to make clear, that they as well might have strategies for others...
A lightly guess versus a lightly guess...i think it's fair!

RogerRamjet
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
huh Wolverine is near obsolete in this fight...

absolutley not..in fact he's the one who puts the odds to the X-Men favour...what the X-Men lack on brute force in this constallation, Logan'll compensate with ferocity...(remember what he did to Things face)
so never sideline the ol' knuckle head cool

xmarksthespot
Wolverine stands little to no chance against any single member of the FF.
He managed to scratch the surface of Thing's face I don't recall him ever managing to stab into Thing.

Pointinel
^wolverine #22

olympian
That from a guy who got stabbed on his own sword.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by RogerRamjet
absolutley not..in fact he's the one who puts the odds to the X-Men favour...what the X-Men lack on brute force in this constallation, Logan'll compensate with ferocity...(remember what he did to Things face)
so never sideline the ol' knuckle head cool

wolverine is one of the lower class xmen, he cannot hurt reed, he shouldn't be able to hurt thing, he cant beat torch, OR sue.

He's there for a punching bag.

Pointinel
^funny dude.

Tha C-Master
He does a good job of it... better than anyone else on the team...

RogerRamjet
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
wolverine is one of the lower class xmen, he cannot hurt reed, he shouldn't be able to hurt thing, he cant beat torch, OR sue.

He's there for a punching bag.

yeah right...he's lucky when he still stands after the fight against the portier of the BB... roll eyes (sarcastic)

wannabe
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Wolverine stands little to no chance against any single member of the FF.
He managed to scratch the surface of Thing's face I don't recall him ever managing to stab into Thing.
SCRATCHED THE SURFACE???

Ben's silicate skin was totally removed at one side of his face, one could see the flesh beneeth, he was out of himself because of the pain and had to wear a helmet afterwards!

SCRATCHED THE SURFACE???

xmarksthespot
laughing I love reactions to comments made about Wolverine.
I stand by my statement that any single member of the FF is more likely to beat Wolverine than vice versa and that he is obsolete in this fight as anything other than a damage soaker.

Creshosk
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
laughing I love reactions to comments made about Wolverine.
I stand by my statement that any single member of the FF is more likely to beat Wolverine than vice versa and that he is obsolete in this fight as anything other than a damage soaker. Or a projectile. . .

stormfront13
omg, the x-men don't even need wolverine to win this. they only need emma and storm. X i say storm because everyone says reed is very resistant to telepathy and if he is then emma has no way of defeating him, but storm does.

wannabe
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
laughing I love reactions to comments made about Wolverine.
I stand by my statement that any single member of the FF is more likely to beat Wolverine than vice versa and that he is obsolete in this fight as anything other than a damage soaker.
I too think he can be stopped by each of the four.
And guess which character i voted to be the most overrated on the respective thread...but nonetheless the authors let him do a little more than a SURFACE SCRATCH to Ben...and he is at least good enough to keep Thing busy...even written properly.

Zahit
i'm sure the x-men will get a call when galactus comes waltzing by for a snack..... no

Creshosk
Originally posted by Zahit
i'm sure the x-men will get a call when galactus comes waltzing by for a snack..... no Yes, because taking on Galactus with prep and gadgets would be like taking on the X-men without prep nor gadgets.

Because the FF can take Galactus without prep, nor gadgets.

Zahit
Originally posted by Creshosk
Yes, because taking on Galactus with prep and gadgets would be like taking on the X-men without prep nor gadgets.

Because the FF can take Galactus without prep, nor gadgets.
you're awfully argumenative this fine saturday morning....
GOOD MORNING!

Creshosk
Originally posted by Zahit
you're awfully argumenative this fine saturday morning....
GOOD MORNING! Likewise, so are you.

Good morning to you too.

Zahit
it's too damn early to put up great long-winded arguments....
the FF win.....just take my word for it and let's eat breakfast.
milk and cerial with some blueberries
followed by a light omellete for me.

Alpha Centauri
Question:

Why are people are still trying to insist that everyone's favourite crimefighters can beat the team who take out cosmics? They couldn't when you last tried, they still can't.

Let's be perfectly realistic. All of you are going "Yeah Emma will go in, mindwipe. Win." This isn't the British Legion of croned war veterans we're talking about. It's the Fantastic Four. A combination of possibly the smartest man on Earth and one of the smartest men ever, a big strong durable fighter, a woman who has more power and ability than alot of Marvel men and a human star.

How exactly are Marvel's barrel scrapers realistically going to overcome the best TEAM to exist in comic history? Don't go and say "Mindwipe. Then Jean will do this." Because as I said, they're not fighting cripples. They're fighting the F4.

Let's not dive head first into bullshit theory to hide the fact that we (aka Wolverine fanboys) don't know what we're (aka you) talking about. Let's take a step back:

The X-Men Vs The Fantastic Four. Can anybody, without literally scripting the fight in the X-Men's favour, realistically envision a loss for the F4?

-AC

wannabe
Originally posted by Zahit
i'm sure the x-men will get a call when galactus comes waltzing by for a snack..... no
Using the same meaningless statement on both FF v. X threads?
Well, it's at least consequential!

Zahit
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Question:

Why are people are still trying to insist that everyone's favourite crimefighters can beat the team who take out cosmics? They couldn't when you last tried, they still can't.

Let's be perfectly realistic. All of you are going "Yeah Emma will go in, mindwipe. Win." This isn't the British Legion of croned war veterans we're talking about. It's the Fantastic Four. A combination of possibly the smartest man on Earth and one of the smartest men ever, a big strong durable fighter, a woman who has more power and ability than alot of Marvel men and a human star.

How exactly are Marvel's barrel scrapers realistically going to overcome the best TEAM to exist in comic history? Don't go and say "Mindwipe. Then Jean will do this." Because as I said, they're not fighting cripples. They're fighting the F4.

Let's not dive head first into bullshit theory to hide the fact that we (aka Wolverine fanboys) don't know what we're (aka you) talking about. Let's take a step back:

The X-Men Vs The Fantastic Four. Can anybody, without literally scripting the fight in the X-Men's favour, realistically envision a loss for the F4?

-AC

Welcome back and WELL SAID.

Alpha Centauri
I'm not "back".

Someone who used to visit these forums aswell just brought to my attention how pathetic it's become. I thought it got bad at Gambit Vs Doom.

But I come back to see Wolverine Vs Abomination with people actually claiming Wolverine wins. I'm surprised this forum hasn't been experiencing mass exodus.

I came here because this is one debate that amuses me non-stop.

-AC

Creshosk
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Question:

Why are people are still trying to insist that everyone's favourite crimefighters can beat the team who take out cosmics? They couldn't when you last tried, they still can't. Taking out cosmics with prep and/or gadgets.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Let's be perfectly realistic. All of you are going "Yeah Emma will go in, mindwipe. Win." This isn't the British Legion of croned war veterans we're talking about. It's the Fantastic Four. A combination of possibly the smartest man on Earth and one of the smartest men ever, a big strong durable fighter, a woman who has more power and ability than alot of Marvel men and a human star.Powers included are resistence to psioncs? no

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
How exactly are Marvel's barrel scrapers realistically going to overcome the best TEAM to exist in comic history? Don't go and say "Mindwipe. Then Jean will do this." Because as I said, they're not fighting cripples. They're fighting the F4. The FF who take out their enemies by using Reeds brain to come up of find gadgets to take out the strong enemies. . .


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The X-Men Vs The Fantastic Four. Can anybody, without literally scripting the fight in the X-Men's favour, realistically envision a loss for the F4?

-AC Well, if the fight is to be scripted in their favor that's probably because the fight is in their favor.

Zahit
Sue has, in a recent issue, proved she's faster and can take Emma out
sooner! Telekinetic shields won't block a nova-burst from torch.
They have thier limits. None of them are gonna take down
Ben or Reed without psionics, which will be Sue's first priority.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Creshosk
Taking out cosmics with prep and/or gadgets.

Does this disprove my claim? No. Is it the F4's job to get the job done hand to hand or is it their job to get the job done any way they can? It's the latter isn't it? Yes.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Powers included are resistence to psioncs? no

That's neither here nor there. The X-Men aren't going to storm in, mindwipe the F4 and win are they? Let's be very honest with our true souls here. It's just not on the cards is it?

Originally posted by Creshosk
The FF who take out their enemies by using Reeds brain to come up of find gadgets to take out the strong enemies. . .

Do they or do they not get the job done? They do. You're altering my point to aid your own. I said they take out cosmics and they do, fact. Why do you feel the need to demean the fact that they can beat Galactus by saying "They used gadgets"? If anything that backs them up. The can come up with a gadget to out smart a near enough omnipotent being. Next time Thanos, Galactus or Annihilus threaten the Earth, I don't suppose Wolverine is gonna turn up and go "Yeah let's fight". Prof X isn't gonna sit there and say "Emma, go mindwipe them all." Because that wouldn't happen unless you are biasedly claiming it's a match winner.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Well, if the fight is to be scripted in their favor that's probably because the fight is in their favor.

It's not though is it? Because people just say "OMG LIEK EMMA AND JEAN COULD WIN THIS! MINDWIPE!"

If you think that Marvel's cash cows are seriously going to beat Marvel's best team like that, I don't know what to do with you.

There's no point debating if you're gonna use no sense. People tend to look at the respective powers and immediately say what they would like to happen, not what would happen. If they met in a fight, it's never ever going to be as easy as anyone here claims it is and realistically, no combination of non-claremont felched X-Men is gonna beat the F4.

-AC

Creshosk
Originally posted by Zahit
Sue has, in a recent issue, proved she's faster and can take Emma out
sooner! Who as was pointed out had warning from someone who was talking, thus warning her of what was going to happen. There was aenough time to process what was being said, and make a decision as to what to do.

In a word prep.


Originally posted by Zahit
Telekinetic shields won't block a nova-burst from torch.Torch can't nova blast if he's been taken out.


Originally posted by Zahit
They have thier limits. None of them are gonna take down
Ben or Reed without psionics, which will be Sue's first priority. See first response to this post.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Creshosk
Torch can't nova blast if he's been taken out.

Point proven.

Who actually says he's going to be taken out? Oh yes, you. Doesn't mean it would actually happen does it?

All your debates are based on deciding what you think would happen and then treating it as fact. You've more or less made the decision that Torch won't be involved, a pretty ignorant and presumptuous comment to say the least.

-AC

Creshosk
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Does this disprove my claim? No. Is it the F4's job to get the job done hand to hand or is it their job to get the job done any way they can? It's the latter isn't it? Yes. It shows that the comment was skewed, taken out of context and thusly invalid to the discussion.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That's neither here nor there. The X-Men aren't going to storm in, mindwipe the F4 and win are they? Let's be very honest with our true souls here. It's just not on the cards is it? Why not?

Do they have a resistence to psionics? no



Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Do they or do they not get the job done? They do. You're altering my point to aid your own. I said they take out cosmics and they do, fact. Why do you feel the need to demean the fact that they can beat Galactus by saying "They used gadgets"? If anything that backs them up. The can come up with a gadget to out smart a near enough omnipotent being. That's neither here nor there since they have gadgets to take the cosmics out.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's not though is it? Because people just say "OMG LIEK EMMA AND JEAN COULD WIN THIS! MINDWIPE!" And it is a viable option, despite your satirizing the notion.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If you think that Marvel's cash cows are seriously going to beat Marvel's best team like that, I don't know what to do with you. Running out of options, so now we're attacking the characters in a way that is a non-factor to the fight.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
There's no point debating if you're gonna use no sense.I can say the same.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
People tend to look at the respective powers and immediately say what they would like to happen, not what would happen. Yes, yes you are.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If they met in a fight, it's never ever going to be as easy as anyone here claims it is and realistically, no combination of non-claremont felched X-Men is gonna beat the F4.Your opinion. Based on what you would like to see happen. Based on your preceptions of the characters.

Victor Von Doom
Originally posted by Alan Centauri
I'm not "back".

Someone who used to visit these forums aswell just brought to my attention how pathetic it's become.

-AP

Who was it?

wannabe
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Question:

Why are people are still trying to insist that everyone's favourite crimefighters can beat the team who take out cosmics? They couldn't when you last tried, they still can't.

Let's be perfectly realistic. All of you are going "Yeah Emma will go in, mindwipe. Win." This isn't the British Legion of croned war veterans we're talking about. It's the Fantastic Four. A combination of possibly the smartest man on Earth and one of the smartest men ever, a big strong durable fighter, a woman who has more power and ability than alot of Marvel men and a human star.

How exactly are Marvel's barrel scrapers realistically going to overcome the best TEAM to exist in comic history? Don't go and say "Mindwipe. Then Jean will do this." Because as I said, they're not fighting cripples. They're fighting the F4.

Let's not dive head first into bullshit theory to hide the fact that we (aka Wolverine fanboys) don't know what we're (aka you) talking about. Let's take a step back:

The X-Men Vs The Fantastic Four. Can anybody, without literally scripting the fight in the X-Men's favour, realistically envision a loss for the F4?

-AC
I do actually!
Liking both teams...reading both their comics...taking in all i know about them (which is a considerable btw.)...freeing my mind of all popularity bonuses and overratings each of the teams got...judging just by what i know about their abilities and powers...
I do actually!

Btw...please stop using the "Cap will win because he is THE Captain America...the FF will win because they are THE FF...Wolverine will win because he is THE Wolverine"- type of argument!!!
Just because someone stated them the best or the first or legendary or whatever does not mean they are unstoppable and/or unquestionable when you look at them unbiased.

Creshosk
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Point proven.

Who actually says he's going to be taken out? Oh yes, you. Doesn't mean it would actually happen does it? Who says he's not? Oh yes, you. Doesn't mean that it would not actually happen does it?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
All your debates are based on deciding what you think would happen and then treating it as fact. Likewise.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You've more or less made the decision that Torch won't be involved, If he's taken out before he gets to Nova temperatures he's no longer a factor.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
a pretty ignorant and presumptuous comment to say the least.

-AC No more or less than

"HAHA TURCH NEVA BLASSTS! FF WINx0rs!"

Don't you think?

Zahit
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Who was it?
FANTASTIC sig!!!!

Creshosk
Originally posted by Zahit
FANTASTIC sig!!!! I agree, that's a great sig.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Creshosk
It shows that the comment was skewed, taken out of context and thusly invalid to the discussion.

It doesn't, clearly. Because I made a claim and you tried to add specific details to a claim, irrelevant details. Continually saying "But they used gadgets" doesn't demean the fact that they did what I claimed they can do.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Why not?

Do they have a resistence to psionics? no

I've seen examples of Reed or Sue having the ability to shield themselves. However, I can't say that they have a definate shielding to it, no. However, if you asked me if they had a way to best Galactus, Annihilus or many other big players, I'd probably say no if I didn't know about it. Point I'm making is, no writer is sanely gonna have it that easy, because Reed isn't that stupid.

Originally posted by Creshosk
That's neither here nor there since they have gadgets to take the cosmics out.

Follow my breadcrumbs, Hanzel. I said they take out cosmics, my claim was true. Fact. There's no need to go into "But they used..." no, but nothing. Because that's irrelevant. The end result is relevant, the end result is that they beat Galactus.

Originally posted by Creshosk
And it is a viable option, despite your satirizing the notion.

It's not though. No writer is actually going to create a fight in which the X-Men meet the F4 and win in seconds, because Reed for one is smarter than any X-Man/Woman and they have enough combined might to take out a bulk of X-Men.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Running out of options, so now we're attacking the characters in a way that is a non-factor to the fight.

Attacking the characters? Stop being such a diva. I'm speaking in fact. X-Men are Marvel's cash cows and F4, all things considered, are Marvel's best team. Stop clutching at straws.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Yes, yes you are.

I'm not though am I? That's you making an assumption because my comment applies to you and you don't want to assume that someone unbiased is giving you a complete talking to. That's your deal, not mine. I'm saying the X-Men wouldn't ever win in the manner you are claiming they would, they wouldn't. Not because I don't like it, but because it wouldn't happen.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Your opinion. Based on what you would like to see happen. Based on your preceptions of the characters.

No, that's your assumption.

Originally posted by wannabe
Btw...please stop using the "Cap will win because he is THE Captain America...the FF will win because they are THE FF...Wolverine will win because he is THE Wolverine"- type of argument!!!
Just because someone stated them the best or the first or legendary or whatever does not mean they are unstoppable and/or unquestionable when you look at them unbiased.

I agree. So maybe you'd wanna show me where I factually did this.

-AC

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Creshosk
Who says he's not? Oh yes, you. Doesn't mean that it would not actually happen does it?

Find where I said he wouldn't. Because I'm pretty sure I didn't say that.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Likewise.

Not really, not at all. I'd appreciate it if you actually stopped making directly opposite assumptions.

Originally posted by Creshosk
If he's taken out before he gets to Nova temperatures he's no longer a factor.

Let's spot the keyword here. Keyword: "If". If, meaning he might not.

Originally posted by Creshosk
No more or less than
"HAHA TURCH NEVA BLASSTS! FF WINx0rs!"

Don't you think?

Yeah. Who said that? Not me.

-AC

Wynndar
Thats true, X-MEn are the most popular and thats why they're so inflated on here. However, although the FF doesnt have as much sales, they are depepicted as Marvel's most celebrated and unbeatable team.

Alpha Centauri
Hence why when the shit is on, X-Men aren't anywhere to be seen as much as the F4 are.

When they've got "We beat - and have the respect of - Galactus" on their resume, I'll give them more credit.

I'm inclined not to do so considering that theirs is already tainted by having "We got spanked by Spider-Man" on it.

-AC

Victor Von Doom
Originally posted by Creshosk
I agree, that's a great sig.

Thanks gents.

Creshosk
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It doesn't, clearly. Because I made a claim and you tried to add specific details to a claim, irrelevant details. Continually saying "But they used gadgets" doesn't demean the fact that they did what I claimed they can do. But they haven't done it without gadgets have they?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I've seen examples of Reed or Sue having the ability to shield themselves. However, I can't say that they have a definate shielding to it, no. However, if you asked me if they had a way to best Galactus, Annihilus or many other big players, I'd probably say no if I didn't know about it. Point I'm making is, no writer is sanely gonna have it that easy, because Reed isn't that stupid. So in the comics reed would come up with or find a gadget to get the job done?

That doesn't factor in here.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Follow my breadcrumbs, Hanzel. I said they take out cosmics, my claim was true. Fact. There's no need to go into "But they used..." no, but nothing. Because that's irrelevant. The end result is relevant, the end result is that they beat Galactus. Doesn't factor into this fight. I can say that the X-Men took out a cosmic that beat your cosmic. And it would be true, despite leaving out the circumstances.

And thats the thing the circumstances that allowed the m to "get the job done" are not present.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's not though. No writer is actually going to create a fight in which the X-Men meet the F4 and win in seconds, because Reed for one is smarter than any X-Man/Woman and they have enough combined might to take out a bulk of X-Men. Writers don't factor in on the boards.


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Attacking the characters? Stop being such a diva. I'm speaking in fact. X-Men are Marvel's cash cows and F4, all things considered, are Marvel's best team. Stop clutching at straws. Nice coolness argument. The FF win because they are the FF.

The FF win because they are cool!

Not a factor in this fight.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm not though am I? That's you making an assumption because my comment applies to you and you don't want to assume that someone unbiased is giving you a complete talking to. That's your deal, not mine. I'm saying the X-Men wouldn't ever win in the manner you are claiming they would, they wouldn't. Not because I don't like it, but because it wouldn't happen./quote] But it does, regardless of weather or not you see it.

How can I assume that you are unbiased when you open with:

"They're the FF, they beat cosmics."

Sounds pretty biased to me.


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, that's your assumption.Observation is the word you're looking for.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I agree. So maybe you'd wanna show me where I factually did this.

-AC



Opening statment: "They're the FF, they take out cosmics!"

Wynndar
Hahahaha favorite "crimefighters"...

Creshosk
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Find where I said he wouldn't. Because I'm pretty sure I didn't say that. By making a directly opposite statment to mine you indirectly said it.



Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Not really, not at all. I'd appreciate it if you actually stopped making directly opposite assumptions. They counter yours perfectly, because it's your logic I'm using against you.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Let's spot the keyword here. Keyword: "If". If, meaning he might not. Chances are pretty good that a Psionic can take him out. . unless he has resistence to psionics.



Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yeah. Who said that? Not me.

-AC Follow my breadcrumbs Gretel. Zahit said that Torch would nova blast. I said he wouldn't becble to IF he's been taken out. Keyword here IF.

By attackign my premise that if the torch were taken out before he novablasts then he couldn't nova blast. You were indirectly defending the premise that "Torch nova blasts. the FF win." Which is no more or less arrogant than "The psionics mindwipe, the X-men win."

Wynndar
Did they change the format of this thread so that the FF were stripped naked and have no resources while the X-Men get all of their stuff and prep time and get to sneak up and ambush the FF? Cuz if thats the case I can see the X-Men getting the upper hand.

Creshosk
Originally posted by Wynndar
Hahahaha favorite "crimefighters"... Well, they are a cash cow, buit then so are the FF since the FF movie came out, capitalizing on the name FF, making them Cash Cows as well. . . Not as big as the X-men. . . But this whole thing is virtually a non-factor.

Creshosk
Originally posted by Wynndar
Did they change the format of this thread so that the FF were stripped naked and have no resources while the X-Men get all of their stuff and prep time and get to sneak up and ambush the FF? Cuz if thats the case I can see the X-Men getting the upper hand. Prep time wasn't explicitly stated. So as per the KMC rules its assumed this is a random battle, neither side has prep.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Creshosk
But they haven't done it without gadgets have they?

Why do you keep raising the issue? I stated the claim that they've taken him out. Have they? Yes. Why is "how" of any consequence? I'm not claiming they took him out with force, I'm claiming they took him out. What's the problem?

Originally posted by Creshosk
So in the comics reed would come up with or find a gadget to get the job done?

That doesn't factor in here.

Of course it doesn't, because this forum is full of X-Fans who will create threads with stipulations in the favour of the X-Men. It doesn't alter the fact that in the comics, if they don't win with force, they could very easily win with some other means.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Doesn't factor into this fight. I can say that the X-Men took out a cosmic that beat your cosmic. And it would be true, despite leaving out the circumstances.

And thats the thing the circumstances that allowed the m to "get the job done" are not present.

See above. And one person beating another person doesn't mean anything. It's false.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Writers don't factor in on the boards.

Of course they do. The comics factor, so the people who wrote them factor. Quite possibly the most ridiculous notion I've heard.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Nice coolness argument. The FF win because they are the FF.

The FF win because they are cool!

Not a factor in this fight.

Show me where I said that, please. Because I didn't, you know I didn't. So let's stop that.

Originally posted by Creshosk
How can I assume that you are unbiased when you open with:

"They're the FF, they beat cosmics."

Sounds pretty biased to me.

How in the hell is that biased? I'm stating what they did. Like you saying "They're the X-Men. They've got psionics." You're not biased there, just stating what they have.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Observation is the word you're looking for.

No, it's your assumption. You're making an assumption because that's all you have. You don't like what I'm saying so you assume it's biased. It's not, fact.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Opening statment: "They're the FF, they take out cosmics!"

Yes, point? I never said they'd win because they are the F4. That's you misreading.

I said they'd win because they have the ABILITY to take out people far above and beyond the X-Men and all things considered, the way you are all claiming that the X-Men would win, is ridiculous. But oh yeah, writers don't factor here because it's a thread where the odds are purposefully altered so the X-Men have a better chance.

Next time don't reply with blind and misread assumption. Doesn't make you look good.

-AC

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Creshosk
By making a directly opposite statment to mine you indirectly said it.

No I didn't. Show me where I said he would NOT get taken out. I said:

"Who actually says he's going to be taken out? Oh yes, you. Doesn't mean it would actually happen does it?"

I didn't say he wouldn't. Stop making assumptions to aid your pathetic arguement. It's stupid.

Originally posted by Creshosk
They counter yours perfectly, because it's your logic I'm using against you.

It's not. It's you being 3rd grade because you can't counter my points without assuming and misreading.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Chances are pretty good that a Psionic can take him out. . unless he has resistence to psionics.

Yes the only reason people are claiming it's as easy as a single mindwipe is that they are either A) X-Fans or B) Ignoring the FACT that it would never happen like that in the comics.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Follow my breadcrumbs Gretel. Zahit said that Torch would nova blast. I said he wouldn't becble to IF he's been taken out. Keyword here IF.

Yes, that was my point wasn't it? He might not be taken out.

Originally posted by Creshosk
By attackign my premise that if the torch were taken out before he novablasts then he couldn't nova blast. You were indirectly defending the premise that "Torch nova blasts. the FF win." Which is no more or less arrogant than "The psionics mindwipe, the X-men win."

No I wasn't. I was only ever saying that it's wrong to assume Torch WOULD get taken out. He may very well not.

Try again. This time with no misreading and assumptions.

-AC

Wynndar
I dont think the mind-wipe is an option, IW has fought Psi-Lord to a standstill. I dont think any X-Man is going to penetrate her either.

Alpha Centauri
Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman, The Thing, The Human Torch.

Vs.

Wolverine, Storm, Cyclops, Emma Frost.

Those are the specified teams.

If Emma Frost is taken out (let's do when Creshosk does) she can't do anything and the X-Men are done.

Let's go and assume Emma is taken out. Like X-Fans are doing with Torch. Or better yet, let's look at Wolverine, Cyclops, Storm and Emma and try to figure out why anyone sanely believes these are capable of taking out the entire F4 in seconds. I genuinely do not see it, unbiasedly.

-AC

wannabe
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by wannabe
Btw...please stop using the "Cap will win because he is THE Captain America...the FF will win because they are THE FF...Wolverine will win because he is THE Wolverine"- type of argument!!!
Just because someone stated them the best or the first or legendary or whatever does not mean they are unstoppable and/or unquestionable when you look at them unbiased. I agree. So maybe you'd wanna show me where I factually did this.
here it comes...
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
This isn't the British Legion of croned war veterans we're talking about. It's the Fantastic Four.

How exactly are Marvel's barrel scrapers realistically going to overcome the best TEAM to exist in comic history? Don't go and say "Mindwipe. Then Jean will do this." Because as I said, they're not fighting cripples. They're fighting the F4.

The X-Men Vs The Fantastic Four. Can anybody, without literally scripting the fight in the X-Men's favour, realistically envision a loss for the F4?
...though i have to admit, that i was talking to everyone!

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by wannabe
I agree. So maybe you'd wanna show me where I factually did this

here it comes...

...though i have to admit, that i was talking to everyone!

Yeah, as I said to Creshosk: Show me where I said they'd win BECAUSE they are the F4.

I put emphasis on who they are, I never said they'd win because of it.

-AC

Wynndar
Thats a joke. The torch over powered Paibok, Lyja and Devos all at once. He's also overpowered Graviton. he's not a hot rod driving teenager anymore. As long as IW or Reed protects his mind, he could beat this whole team of X-Men with little effort.

Alpha Centauri
Seems to be getting overlooked though, Wynndar.

It's perfectly ok for them to assume something in the X-Men's favour but if we dare insinuate that the F4 neutralise the X-Men's only way of winning, it's biased.

Also, I'd like to raise the question as to why, whenever there's an F4 thread, people immediately say "No gadgets, nothing." Why not? Because they'd win? That's like saying "Emma can't use her psionics, Wolverine can't use his claws." The F4's ability to improvise and use outside equipment is what makes them who they are. Taking it away just proves a great deal of biased against them.

-AC

Victor Von Doom
Originally posted by Wynndar
I dont think any X-Man is going to penetrate her either.

I wouldn't mind having a try.

Wynndar
Yea mind-wipe is cheap. But the F4 deal with it easy. IW made short work of Nate grey in his own comic book, already demonstrated she is superior to Emma in a combat situation (maybe not as a school principle though), and has successfully protected herself from Psi-Lord. I dont think the TP thing is going to work. If thats all it took, dont u think that Dr Doom or the Wizard or Skrull Empire would have just hired a telepath to beat the F4 already?

Although the F4 usually try to play it safe and dont go all out on humans or mutants, if they really let loose on these X-Men they would destroy them and that entire landscape.

Alpha Centauri
That's not a possibility though, because it's not what the X-Fans want. It'd probably happen in the comics but they, of course, don't factor here.

-AC

wannabe
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yeah, as I said to Creshosk: Show me where I said they'd win BECAUSE they are the F4.

I put emphasis on who they are, I never said they'd win because of it.

-AC
OH PLEASE...repetetive emphasis on who the FF are to support your opinion about the outcome of this fight, is nothing but trying to make clear that they win BECAUSE they are who they are...which proves my point!
If it's not so...why mentioning who they are anyway...everybody here knows the FF and their status.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by wannabe
OH PLEASE...repetetive emphasis on who the FF are to support your opinion about the outcome of this fight, is nothing but trying to make clear that they win BECAUSE they are who they are...which proves my point!
If it's not so...why mentioning who they are anyway...everybody here knows the FF and their status.

I'm not using repetitve emphasis to support my opinion. Nor should you assume that. Their reputation ALONE is no reason for ANYONE to give them the win and I'll be the first to say so.

Why mention it? Because it does help bring things back to reality a bit, it brings into scope the nature of the respective teams and the tasks they undertake as a result of their talent and ability.

Now would you like fries with that?

-AC

Wynndar
Apparently not. I havent seen many people of the pro-X-Men argument cite examples from FF. Instead their typical argument has been that the F4 stand around and get mind wiped from Emma.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by RogerRamjet
yeah right...he's lucky when he still stands after the fight against the portier of the BB... roll eyes (sarcastic)


So you are saying wolverine can take the FF, please tell me you aren't serious, I just finished with fanboys...

Logically run me step by step on how wolverine is winning this...

I'll be waiting...

Alpha Centauri
No, don't. Because he will actually come up with some warped, fake way in which to win.

It's better to just ignore.

Anyway, I've said my pieces here. I'm out. PM me if the forum gets not-shit one day.

-AC

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, don't. Because he will actually come up with some warped, fake way in which to win.

It's better to just ignore.

Anyway, I've said my pieces here. I'm out. PM me if the forum gets not-shit one day.

-AC wink

Cosmic Cube
Wolverine would be an adamantium skeleton after Johnny Storm finished with him. Respect the Human Torch!

Droopy
I thought this was x men vs fantastic four not wolverine vs fantastic four. confused

Wynndar
well at least he would have that shiny skelaton. The others would jus be vapor.

Cosmic Cube
Emma's the X-team's only chance. Does Sue have any mental powers?

Wynndar
I wouldnt call them mental. But she has defended herself from Psi-Lord, she toyed with X-Man, and she beat Emma in X4

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by Droopy
I thought this was x men vs fantastic four not wolverine vs fantastic four. confused

No some super fan was stating that wolverine could beat the ff, when he couldn't beat ANY of them.

Not in bloodlust...

Wynndar
Wolveine can get some hits in if the FF r just trying to calm him down. But any single member would turn him into a stain.

Tha C-Master
Thank you...

I'm just going to ask your opinion on this, since the wolverine fans don't like me too much.

If wolverine was to go beserk in fight thing, do you see him coming out victorious?

Droopy
This fight could go either way but I give it to the x men. Because of storm and emma I mean cant storm just shoot lighting bolts at Ben and why cant she take out the human torch. I know it wouldn't be easy but she does control the weather and fire doesn't do to well against water and the wind blowing at him. So why doesn't she just create a rainstorm for johnny.

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by Creshosk


Writers don't factor in on the boards.

This came from you , I know I've seen it all now, I guess you can't say that since a writer wrote it, then its always logical anymore, eh?

Creshosk
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No I didn't. Show me where I said he would NOT get taken out. I said:

"Who actually says he's going to be taken out? Oh yes, you. Doesn't mean it would actually happen does it?"

I didn't say he wouldn't. Stop making assumptions to aid your pathetic arguement. It's stupid. It's your argument. laughing


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's not. It's you being 3rd grade because you can't counter my points without assuming and misreading. The same can be said of you, believe it or not.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yes the only reason people are claiming it's as easy as a single mindwipe is that they are either A) X-Fans or B) Ignoring the FACT that it would never happen like that in the comics.

A) ad hominem
Ab) The people taht are denying that the mindwipe can work are FF fans.
B) Non factor to the boards.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yes, that was my point wasn't it? He might not be taken out. And I was saying it's much more likely for him to be taken out before he reached Nova, than for him to reach nova before being taken out.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No I wasn't. I was only ever saying that it's wrong to assume Torch WOULD get taken out. He may very well not.It's just as wrong to assume he won't, given the fact he has no psionic resistance.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Try again. This time with no misreading and assumptions. I would say that your hypocrasy was ironic, but I've rather come to expect it by this point.

Wynndar
Originally posted by Droopy
This fight could go either way but I give it to the x men. Because of storm and emma I mean cant storm just shoot lighting bolts at Ben and why cant she take out the human torch. I know it wouldn't be easy but she does control the weather and fire doesn't do to well against water and the wind blowing at him. So why doesn't she just create a rainstorm for johnny.

Very true, but nothing is stopping the Torch from hitting the whole X-Men with a blast of Nova flame...wind or rain wont mean anything to his Nova flame he's burned a hole through the Earth with it, I dont think some showers r going to stop it.

wannabe
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm not using repetitve emphasis to support my opinion. Nor should you assume that. Their reputation ALONE is no reason for ANYONE to give them the win and I'll be the first to say so.

Why mention it? Because it does help bring things back to reality a bit, it brings into scope the nature of the respective teams and the tasks they undertake as a result of their talent and ability.

Now would you like fries with that?

-AC
It brings into scope propaganda and public opinion AND it veils an unbiased view on the characters and what they really can do in such a fight...far from any reputation, how well earned it may be, cause every reputation and public opinion carries within the seed for preoccupation and unobjective judgement.

Oh...and i take something less oily!

Please don't get me wrong...i'm a fan of the FF (surprised?)...but taking in all i know about both teams...the X-Men DO have a good chance BUT are admittedly far from being clear winners!

Creshosk
Originally posted by Wynndar
Very true, but nothing is stopping the Torch from hitting the whole X-Men with a blast of Nova flame...wind or rain wont mean anything to his Nova flame he's burned a hole through the Earth with it, I dont think some showers r going to stop it. And nothing is stopping Emma from effecting the entire FF team either.

The place where Sue beat Emma, Emma was talking about what she was going to do instead of doing it. You don't see a difference between talking and acting?

Droopy
So then what stop cyclops from giving him a optic blast. I mean couldn't Cyclops do some damage.

Creshosk
Cyclops could do a wide angle beam from the get go and kncok everyone back. . . and those caught off guard could be knocked out. Namely Torch. Cyclops beam is not made of heat, it's concussive so it would be possible to effect the Torch

Wynndar
Is that the best u can do? That was an obvious depiction of Sue's superiority over Emma. It makes perfect sense for Sue to beat her. She's been around longer, she fights much more. She's a better warrior and just a lot tougher all around. After she KO's Emma she even says "Ur not the only one who's powers operate at the speed of thought. U read X-Men and u know that Emma would know what IW was thinking as soon as she thought of it. But IW beat her to the draw. IW can also protect her whole team from Emma if they r not already protected from Reed's tech.

Its like I said in the other thread...If this debate is simply going to amount to an argument over who strikes first and takes out the other team single handedly, Emma or IW, then this isnt a going to be an interesting thread.

Creshosk
Originally posted by Wynndar
Is that the best u can do? That was an obvious depiction of Sue's superiority over Emma. Because Emma talks to much. instead of speakign she could have acted. She didn't.

Originally posted by Wynndar
It makes perfect sense for Sue to beat her. Sure for an FF fan.

Originally posted by Wynndar
She's been around longer, she fights much more. Hulk's been around longer and has fought more than Xavier and Cable, does that mean that Hulk automatically wins?

Originally posted by Wynndar
She's a better warrior and just a lot tougher all around. See above.

Originally posted by Wynndar
After she KO's Emma she even says "Ur not the only one who's powers operate at the speed of thought." It's funny how you keep going back to this, ignoring the fact that Emma was announcing her gameplan, which took longer than 30 m/s. . .

Originally posted by Wynndar
U read X-Men and u know that Emma would know what IW was thinking as soon as she thought of it. But IW beat her to the draw. Because she was talking instead of acting.

Originally posted by Wynndar
IW can also protect her whole team from Emma if they r not already protected from Reed's tech. Another gadget, beautiful.

So Sue DOES have some Psionic resistence with her shields.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Its like I said in the other thread...If this debate is simply going to amount to an argument over who strikes first and takes out the other team single handedly, Emma or IW, then this isnt a going to be an interesting thread. No, it's not.

Creshosk
Originally posted by Wynndar
Wolveine can get some hits in if the FF r just trying to calm him down. But any single member would turn him into a stain. Not Torch, . . torch would turn him into the shiny skeleton as mentioned before. . . the blood would be gone. stick out tongue

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Creshosk
It's your argument. laughing

This would be so effective if it were true.

Originally posted by Creshosk
The same can be said of you, believe it or not.

It can't though can it? Because I'm not doing what you're doing.

Originally posted by Creshosk
A) ad hominem
Ab) The people taht are denying that the mindwipe can work are FF fans.
B) Non factor to the boards.

You're essentially saying comics are a non-factor. I hope you realise the ridiculousness of this.

Originally posted by Creshosk
And I was saying it's much more likely for him to be taken out before he reached Nova, than for him to reach nova before being taken out.

Why is it more than likely? Because you say so? You said yourself Emma talks more than she acts. Why isn't she "more likely" to be taken out by Sue as a result? It's happened before.

Originally posted by Creshosk
It's just as wrong to assume he won't, given the fact he has no psionic resistance.

I'm not assuming he won't. I'm saying don't assume he will. You're meant to have some reputation here. I'm far from impressed.

Originally posted by Creshosk
I would say that your hypocrasy was ironic, but I've rather come to expect it by this point.

I'm not being a hypocrite. Because I'm not purposefully and intentionally misreading your posts.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Cyclops could do a wide angle beam from the get go and kncok everyone back. . . and those caught off guard could be knocked out. Namely Torch. Cyclops beam is not made of heat, it's concussive so it would be possible to effect the Torch

Why are you literally scripting the fight against the F4? How unfair is it that the F4 seemingly have to stand there while the X-Men do all this? Bit stupid.

Originally posted by wannabe
It brings into scope propaganda and public opinion AND it veils an unbiased view on the characters and what they really can do in such a fight...far from any reputation, how well earned it may be, cause every reputation and public opinion carries within the seed for preoccupation and unobjective judgement.

That all balances on the belief that I'm thinking as a biased and propaganda following comics reader. I'm not. I highlighted their reputation, but I believe it's no reason they would win.

Originally posted by wannabe
Please don't get me wrong...i'm a fan of the FF (surprised?)...but taking in all i know about both teams...the X-Men DO have a good chance BUT are admittedly far from being clear winners!

Beyond all this drastically one sided and assumptive "mindwipe" business, please show me how Wolverine, Cyclops, Storm and Emma Frost (who is a liability as Creshosk pointed out) have a good chance. Wolverine, Cyclops and Storm are nothing to Sue, nor Torch, if we're being fair. Then there's Thing and Reed. Oh but yes, "No gadgets". There's no reason to say no gadgets, but we do anyway because that takes away from the F4.

How about no psionics for Emma then? How about...no powers? We just fight with brute force?

-AC

Tha C-Master
Originally posted by Maximum
Fantastic Four
Mr.Fantastic
Invisable Women
The Thing
Human Tourch

Vs.

Wolverine
Storm
Cyclopse
Emma Frost

Who Would Win????

Might Be A Stupid Battle But I'm Bord

Looking at the title and the forum rules, (each character fighting to the best of their abilities.) Taking out piS, and leaving these characters with their standard equipment, why is which team winning?

From what I hear and know, Sue and Emma are the key players on each team.

Logan is exendable and cannon fodder, cyclops can effectively hold thing, reed, and possibly torch back, and storm with her claremont abilities should be emma's right hand, or backup.

On the other hand, thing could keep wolverine down, but is quite useless against storm emma, and cyclops.

Mr fantastic is the most versatile, and could only be held back by cyclops and storm, wolverine is a non point. Emma can keep him back too.

Then there is Torch, the second to sue, like storm is on the xmen.

Most will say that storm can defeat torch rather easily with her "claremont powers", but I know she can pose a threat to torch.

Torch can beat her as well.

That being said, this isn't fully cut out, and can deviate easily due to the number of combatants on each team.

What are some good scopes of emma's true tp prowress?

wannabe
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That all balances on the belief that I'm thinking as a biased and propaganda following comics reader. I'm not. I highlighted their reputation, but I believe it's no reason they would win.
Perhaps you can remember me, taking your one post just as an example and making it clear in my next, that i don't wanted to address you personally as a completely biased person(which comes to my mind now, the longer i read your postings) but that i took a general stand and addressed everyone!
My intention was not accusation but prevention.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Beyond all this drastically one sided and assumptive "mindwipe" business, please show me how Wolverine, Cyclops, Storm and Emma Frost (who is a liability as Creshosk pointed out) have a good chance. Wolverine, Cyclops and Storm are nothing to Sue, nor Torch, if we're being fair. Then there's Thing and Reed. Oh but yes, "No gadgets". There's no reason to say no gadgets, but we do anyway because that takes away from the F4.

How about no psionics for Emma then? How about...no powers? We just fight with brute force?

-AC
Everything i have to say was certainly already posted and i'm not going to repeat me or anyone else knowingly now...it's not worth the time!
I guess you will take this for proof, that my assumption that the X-Men surely have a chance isn't worth a damn...but perhaps it's ME being preoccupied now!

Alpha Centauri
Understood, no harm or foul.

-AC

Creshosk
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
This would be so effective if it were true. Must be why it irritates you so.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It can't though can it? Because I'm not doing what you're doing. No, I'm doign what you're doing. Slight difference in that you did it first. wink

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You're essentially saying comics are a non-factor. I hope you realise the ridiculousness of this. There are more factors in comics than are here, for example you can't really have either side win as that would upset one fanbase or the other.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Why is it more than likely? Because it's more likely for a psionic to effect a person without psionic resistance than
For a psionic to be unable to effect a person with no psionic resistence.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Because you say so? Because logic says so.

Why wouldn't it? Because you say so?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You said yourself Emma talks more than she acts. Why isn't she "more likely" to be taken out by Sue as a result? It's happened before. For the sake of the plot. Obviously that's not a factor here.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm not assuming he won't. Then why imply it?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm saying don't assume he will. Why not? Does he have psionic resistance?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You're meant to have some reputation here. I'm far from impressed. Likewise. I've seen no great reasoning ability to be impressed by.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm not being a hypocrite. Because I'm not purposefully and intentionally misreading your posts. Then you are initially unintentionally misreading my posts, but making it intentional by refusal to correct yourself.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Why are you literally scripting the fight against the F4? Because I think that this fight is in favor of the other side.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
How unfair is it that the F4 seemingly have to stand there while the X-Men do all this? Bit stupid. How fair is it for the reverse?

And we are talking about speed attacks here.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That all balances on the belief that I'm thinking as a biased and propaganda following comics reader. I'm not. You have yet to prove otherwise, and thus far have shown yourself to be baised.

Emma can't effect Torch because. . . actually I haven't heard a reason.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I highlighted their reputation, but I believe it's no reason they would win. Then why highlight it at all if it's a non-factor?

"They beat down cosmics! so the X-men are nothing to these god slayers." Is the way it sounds.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Beyond all this drastically one sided and assumptive "mindwipe" business, Still haven't shown how it wouldn't work. You keep bringing up a plot based issue.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
please show me how Wolverine, Cyclops, Storm and Emma Frost (who is a liability as Creshosk pointed out) Oh, yes lets rely on a plot based stupidity, because its all you really have to cling to.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
have a good chance. Wolverine, Cyclops and Storm are nothing to Sue, nor Torch, if we're being fair. That's neither fair nor unbaised sounding.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Then there's Thing and Reed. Oh but yes, "No gadgets". There's no reason to say no gadgets, Other than if its not explicitly stated then its assumed there is no prep and only the things that the characters regularly carry on them apply, so said by the KMC rules?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
but we do anyway because that takes away from the F4. Doing so because it's in the rules.

The reasoning is that why should one side get prep and not the other?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
How about no psionics for Emma then? How about...no powers? We just fight with brute force? Now now, no reason to be bitter.

That's also not very unbaised sounding I'm affraid.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Creshosk
Must be why it irritates you so.

Doesn't irritate me, amuses me. Greatly.

Originally posted by Creshosk
No, I'm doign what you're doing. Slight difference in that you did it first. wink

True, true. Oh, that and the fact that you're not doing what I did. You're doing something childish and claiming I did it.

Originally posted by Creshosk
There are more factors in comics than are here, for example you can't really have either side win as that would upset one fanbase or the other.

I'm not worried about upsetting fanbases. You ask me who would win, I assess the powers and abilities of each person and/or team, pros and cons, then decide who are the more likely victors. Everyone on this forum more or less seems to be a bunch of X-Men yes men.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Because it's more likely for a psionic to effect a person without psionic resistance than
For a psionic to be unable to effect a person with no psionic resistence.

Why? She isn't Sue-resistant is she?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Because logic says so.

Why wouldn't it? Because you say so?

Who's logic? Yours. You are saying it's more likely Torch would be taken out than Emma purely because he's not psionically resistant. As said, Emma isn't Sue resistant, why isn't this being considered? Because you don't want to.

Originally posted by Creshosk
For the sake of the plot. Obviously that's not a factor here.

What plot? It's a Vs Thread. We're judging on the characters so yes it's a factor. Why wouldn't it be? Because you'd be up slack alley? Exactly.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Then why imply it?

I didn't imply it. You misread my post and misinterpreted it to a degree that you were happy with.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Why not? Does he have psionic resistance?

No. Does Emma have Sue resistance? No. So why are you assuming it's more likely for Torch to be taken out than Emma? Simple question.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Likewise. I've seen no great reasoning ability to be impressed by.

I'm not here to impress, not suggesting you are either. The fact that you're talking complete nonsense and only replying with mirroring comments, albeit wrong, suggests that you aren't all that anyway.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Then you are initially unintentionally misreading my posts, but making it intentional by refusal to correct yourself.

I'm not misreading your posts unintentionally nor intentionally. Nor am I refusing to correct myself because there is nothing to correct. You misread my post so you're implying I should "correct" my post to mean what you interpreted it to mean. That would be altering for your intents and purposes, not correcting. I'm not a newbie, you can't twist words with me, sunshine.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Because I think that this fight is in favor of the other side.

Yes, why is it? Because you're scripting it so, biasedly.

Originally posted by Creshosk
How fair is it for the reverse?

And we are talking about speed attacks here.

So, speed attacks or not. You're creating a biased and one-sided, scripted fight in which you've gave the F4 a handicap more or less, despite it not being specified in the thread title. THEN unintermittedly you form a sequence of events that are unrealistic yet perfectly "realistic" according to you, as how the fight would go. When confronted with the fact that we all know that would be far from the case, you claim that comics aren't relevant.

Originally posted by Creshosk
You have yet to prove otherwise, and thus far have shown yourself to be baised.

No, I've shown myself to be of the belief that the F4 would win. You are assuming I'm biased because it gives you some kind of comfort in the subconscious thought of "I'm biased, he is too".

Originally posted by Creshosk
Emma can't effect Torch because. . . actually I haven't heard a reason.

I never stated "Emma Frost cannot effect Torch." Let this be a lesson to you for diving in head first and making assumptions.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Then why highlight it at all if it's a non-factor?

I never said it was a non-factor, I said it's not a reason that they will win the battle. You make such huge leaps of connection and fall each time. Let's make a thing clear, I'm no newbie. I'm not impressed nor confused by your oh so played out tactic of "Let's confuse them into conceding or agreeing". Don't play the smart ass, I'm better at it than you.

Originally posted by Creshosk
"They beat down cosmics! so the X-men are nothing to these god slayers." Is the way it sounds.

Not my problem. I'm responsible for what I say, not what you hear.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Still haven't shown how it wouldn't work. You keep bringing up a plot based issue.

A) Never said it wouldn't work theoretically. I said it's not going to happen in the comics because nobody is gonna take that and nobody is gonna believe that it could happen.

B) It's a COMIC Vs forum. Stop acting as if referring to comics is a cardinal sin.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Oh, yes lets rely on a plot based stupidity, because its all you really have to cling to.

Cling to? Coming from the guy who has relied on misinterpretation, purposefully I might add, to continue as far as he has, I'd consider who's clinging to who here.

We're discussing characters, characters that exist in the comics. Stop acting as if referring to comics is "stupid". Emma let slip before, Sue took her out. It's on the CV.

Originally posted by Creshosk
That's neither fair nor unbaised sounding.

It's not biased, learn the meaning of the word and stop clinging to that. Sue could single handedly take out Wolverine, Cyclops and Storm one on one or possible 3 on 1. She IS powerful enough by fact. But then again, I judge by comics. Those mediums that gave birth to the characters yet are coincidentally not relevant here.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Other than if its not explicitly stated then its assumed there is no prep and only the things that the characters regularly carry on them apply, so said by the KMC rules?

Reed doesn't regularly carry gadgets? How do you know what he does and doesn't carry? Or are you assuming for your own purposes? Of course you are.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Doing so because it's in the rules.

See above.

Originally posted by Creshosk
The reasoning is that why should one side get prep and not the other?

Why are you operating under the assumption that Reed is gonna create something new? Prep may very well not be needed. He has already made items that could be used and who's to say he's not got them with him? He's pulled items like that out of nowhere before.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Now now, no reason to be bitter.

That's also not very unbaised sounding I'm affraid.

Learn the meaning of the word "unbiased" please. That's my first request.

Second, if we're not allowing F4 one of their defining attributes, why should we allow the X-Men theirs? If anything I'm being fair. Let's make this an equal fight. Because if they are both allowed access to that which they use in battle, you know as well as I do that the chances of F4 winning by landslide is increased based on situational evidence and comic history. If they've got ready made items to deal with Galactus, they have ones to deal with X-Men. ESPECIALLY this foursome that have been provided.

-AC

kgkg
holly shit

Victor Von Doom
Originally posted by Alan Centauri
I'm not a newbie, you can't twist words with me, sunshine.


-AP

I'm glad you put the word 'sunshine' in, in place of what was previously there.

Would have been really disturbing calling the man 'sweetcheeks', as originally posted.

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