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Classic Juggs and a mindless, total out of controll Hulk ...

Average showings its a Tossup.

This would be a cool match to see.

But Hercules will be the first to go down and then Hulk and Juggy will take out Thor.

He would go down if Hulk and Juggernaut had the opportunity to double team on him.

With thor there and being the only one here with heavy long range attacks, how that would happen. They cant afford - not - to fight Thor.

Originally posted by olympian
He would go down if Hulk and Juggernaut had the opportunity to double team on him.

They will.

Once Juggernaut knocks out Hercules he can go help the Hulk finish off Thor.

Or vice versa.

Juggernaut knocking Hercules by himself?

At regular levels, he never did that to Thor iirc.

Hulk even Mindless didnt accomplish to ko Herk. In fact he never did even if we count the one shot.

Seems unlikely to me. Not that id give any better odds to the other team.

It's Half-God Hercules?If it's so he and Thor takes this.
Thor has K.O.ed Hulk before, with Hercules, he'll just do it faster.
Then he'll perform the trick to overcome part of Cyttorak's enchantment, and if he wasn't able to K.O. Juggy alone, with Herc's help, they'll punch him so hard he'll finally fall down.

I agree that any of the double teams will knock out a sole opponent.

Thor is the wildcard here, with his exotic and variable powers.

Um Juggernaut has already knocked out Thor by himself before.

"Um Juggernaut has already knocked out Thor by himself before."

Regular Juggernaut? Knocking Thor out for good? Where.

Originally posted by newjak86
Um Juggernaut has already knocked out Thor by himself before.
Only the 8th Day Jugg was able to walk over Thor like he was nothing.
In their 2fights, Thor showed his own, going all out, even using GodForce and once partially blocking Cyttorak's enchantment.

Hulk takes the other two by himself.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Only the 8th Day Jugg was able to walk over Thor like he was nothing.
In their 2fights, Thor showed his own, going all out, even using GodForce and once partially blocking Cyttorak's enchantment.

i don't remember Thor being knocked out by Juggs in that story.... and that was an uber-powered Juggernaut... this fight is the classic version

Thor and Herc have fought side by side many times.... Jugg and Hulk hate each other.... teamwork wins this for Herc & Thor

does Herc get his mace?

Originally posted by olympian
Juggernaut knocking Hercules by himself?

At regular levels, he never did that to Thor iirc.

Hulk even Mindless didnt accomplish to ko Herk. In fact he never did even if we count the one shot.

Seems unlikely to me. Not that id give any better odds to the other team.
Never you say?

Jugs would kick herc ass like he did to Thor.


Thor without his hammer = Herc

if you ask me, thor isnt the wild card, he is the key to his teams defeat. i'd imagine juggernaut and thor would square up, and the 2 h's would go at it... hulk and herc. herc and hulk would be even, but as soon as juggernaut finishs thor (which he eventually would, cause hes shown to mow thor over in most of thier encounters), then it would only be a certain amount of time before juggernaut and hulk took herc out too...

Originally posted by kgkg
Never you say?

Jugs would kick herc ass like he did to Thor.


Thor without his hammer = Herc

Even though there is no base for this claim, I always think of Herc' as Thor's overall physical better.

The only time I remember Jug nearly k.oing Thor was when they faught in the street. Jug used the hammer to give him more force to punch Thor with, and it seemingly K.O'd Thor for a good minute or two.

The power pack or whatever teen super team there was at the time came in and saved Thor.

in thors defense he was knocked out because of a bout of nausea though... but juggernaut still coulda did it by himself

"Never you say?

Jugs would kick herc ass like he did to Thor.

Thor without his hammer = Herc"



Enlight all of us where regular/classic Juggernaut kicked Thors ass.

Even better enlight me where he ever knocked him out, by himself.

This is the same talk of Hulk and Herk. Next youll be telling me Hulk has already knocked Herk out when he never did in his whole life.

Thor being the wildcard for me speaks for being the most powerful here.

thor 412, thor is knocked unconscious by juggernaut and the new warriors keep juggernaut attention while thor recovers...

thor vol. 2 #17, juggernaut beats thor almost to unconscioussness... get this, while not even wanting to fight

thor to me isnt the wild card, he is the key to defeat. he will be the first to go.

i think hulk will keep hercules occupied (neither one gaining the upperhand) while juggernaut stops thor. then hulk and juggernaut together WILL take out hercules.

this is my overall view of the fight. it would be much longer than this of coarse, but thats the basic idea...

http://www.geocities.com/pic_housing2/Thor_KO1b.txt


just in case...

"thor 412, thor is knocked unconscious by juggernaut and the new warriors keep juggernaut attention while thor recovers"

Yes, he was felling weak for whatever reason it was, Juggernaut grabs the handle of Thor`s hammer when it returns to Thors and uses the momentum to do the ko.

In the next issue he gets defeated by bfr.

in Thor #429, he didnt proved to be stronger either. I recall his helmet been sent flying by Thors punches.

"thor vol. 2 #17, juggernaut beats thor almost to unconscioussness... get this, while not even wanting to fight "

That wasent regular Juggernaut was it. If you want to use amped versions lets use Rune Thor.

Originally posted by olympian
That wasent regular Juggernaut was it. If you want to use amp versions lets use Rune Thor.


amped version of juggernaut??? 8th day juggernaut was regular juggernaut... this is a misconception of the juggernaut... check out uncanny x-men 369 if you want an amped juggernaut. juggernaut was no different in thor 17 except he was hearing the call and paying no attention to thor, where as normally he would have been more into the fight.

"amped version of juggernaut??? 8th day juggernaut was regular juggernaut"

As he was classically presented, no he wasent. Wasent he drawing more power of his source? If you get more than you usually do, your amping yourself. Its the same with Superman and sundipping more from his power source.

Or you call sundipped Superman a regular version too.

Originally posted by olympian
As he was classically presented, no he wasent.



yes he was... the only difference was his mind set. he "had to be somewhere".



Originally posted by olympian
Wasent he drawing more power of his source? If you get more than you usually do, your amping yourself.



where do you draw this conclusion from?? no he wasnt drawing on any more of his power. check out juggernauts appearances in dr. strange, or in his one shot (where somebody else uses the power), or uncanny x-men 369 for juggernaut tapping into his power. 8th day juggernaut was NORMAL juggernaut, his mind was influenced by the call of the 8th day.


Originally posted by olympian
Its the same with Superman and sundipping more from his power source.

Or you call sundipped Superman a regular version too.


no, juggernaut gaining power in this mannor would be him going to the crimson cosmos and drawing energy from it... and i dont read dc comics by the way...

"where do you draw this conclusion from?? no he wasnt drawing on any more of his power. check out juggernauts appearances in dr. strange, or in his one shot (where somebody else uses the power), or uncanny x-men 369 for juggernaut tapping into his power. 8th day juggernaut was NORMAL juggernaut, his mind was influenced by the call of the 8th day".

Tapping -more- of his power.....? Then was he or was he not. Thats what im saying. If you got more on yourself than you usually do, your not on your average level.

Mind influences work the same way. Ill give another DC example. Superman/Eclipso. More ruthless. Doesnt care about anything. Mindless Hulk its the same thing. Hes not that different than a Savage Hulk. But without restraining from banner and his anger, its a boost for the Hulkster.

Onslaught Hulk its another example. Those arent them operating at theyr regular.

"and i dont read dc comics by the way..."

Its ok, i gave other examples.

Originally posted by olympian
Tapping -more- of his power.....? Then was he or was he not. Thats what im saying. If you got more on yourself than you usually do, your not on your average level.



he wasnt tapping into more power in 8th day... he was in dr strange, and juggernaut 1 shot, and uncanny x-men 369. there was no more of "himself" or his power.



Originally posted by olympian
Mind influences work the same way. Ill give another DC example. Superman/Eclipso. More ruthless. Doesnt care about anything. Mindless Hulk its the same thing. Hes not that different than a Savage Hulk. But without restraining from banner and his anger, its a boost for the Hulkster.




ok, once again, juggernaut originally doesnt give a crap... or cain marko should i say. he has no regard for human life, and has killed on panel, ALOT of people. if anything, the different mind set gave THOR the advantage, because juggernaut wasnt trying to fight, he was trying to be somewhere. with no power increase...

"he wasnt tapping into more power in 8th day... he was in dr strange, and juggernaut 1 shot, and uncanny x-men 369. there was no more of "himself" or his power. "

First you say he wasent, then you say he was and now you say he wasent again. If he had an influence outside of his usual self its a boost. Mindset or physical one. And one influences the performance of the other as you know. This has been showed many times.

"ok, once again, juggernaut originally doesnt give a crap... or cain marko should i say. he has no regard for human life, and has killed on panel, ALOT of people. if anything, the different mind set gave THOR the advantage, because juggernaut wasnt trying to fight, he was trying to be somewhere. with no power increase..."

What does that matter? Superman without having a mind influence on him, has killed as well on panel. And he is a boy scout.

Thor didnt had any advantage since he couldnt do anything to that Juggernaut. On regular levels he could. See the difference?

Is Warrior Madness Thor his regular too? Or Mindless Hulk. Or Onslaught Hulk. Hulk has killed on panel with no boosts as well.

Originally posted by olympian

First you say he wasent, then you say he was and now you say he wasent again.

mind quoting me where i said 8th day had a boost??

Originally posted by olympian
If he had an influence outside of his usual self its a boost.


there was no boost in power. juggernaut was "hearing the call". he didnt even know where he was supposed to go, he just knew he had to do something. how is that a power boost?? he was just serving his purpose AS the juggernaut.

Originally posted by olympian
Mindset or physical one. And one influences the performance of the other as you know. This has been showed many times.


what???

Originally posted by olympian
What does that matter? Superman without having a mind influence on him, has killed as well on panel. And he is a boy scout.


what does what matter?? you are saying mind influences are power increases??? lol, no... they are allowing hulk or superman to use thier power without caring for other people. this isnt true for juggernaut cause he never cared in the first place.

Originally posted by olympian
Thor didnt had any advantage since he couldnt do anything to that Juggernaut. On regular levels he could. See the difference?


at regular levels thor NEVER hurt juggernaut... see the difference?? lol, you are crazy...

Originally posted by olympian
Is Warrior Madness Thor his regular too? Or Mindless Hulk. Or Onslaught Hulk. Hulk has killed on panel with no boosts as well.

i didnt say they didnt kill... they just had a reason to. juggernaut just doesnt care, with or without the 8th day. he will kill for no reason any time. there was no difference between 8th day and regular juggernaut excpet the fact that he heard the call of 8th day *hence the name* and the fact that he had to be somewhere. which means he was otherwise preoccupied, or he COULD have did worse to thor. without any power ups... and warrior madness thor is regular thor. there is no reason to think otherwise. he just cares less about his opponents well being. if it increased his strength 10 fold, pretty much all his opponents would be a greasy red smear.

"B] As he was classically presented, no he wasent.



Was there or not a difference between regular Jugs and 8th day Jugs. Did Classic without powerups ever acted like this?

Different mindset for me its a boost. Physical boosts arent the only ones.

"Mindset or physical one. And one influences the performance of the other as you know. This has been showed many times.



what???"

What is difficult to understand? When your mindset its different, you use more of your powers or better the ones you already have. I ask you again. Its mindless Hulk the regular Hulk for you? Warrior Madness Thor? They dont look different. But they - are - different.

"what does what matter?? you are saying mind influences are power increases??? lol, no... they are allowing hulk or superman to use thier power without caring for other people. this isnt true for juggernaut cause he never cared in the first place"

Yes they increase the performance of theyr regular selfs. I know he never cared, then again he never beat Thor like he did in that issue. There has to be a difference. Either that or Thor was depowered.

"at regular levels thor NEVER hurt juggernaut... see the difference?? lol, you are crazy..."

And at regular levels Juggernaut never knocked Thor out unless you count using his hammer momentum against him. Or did what he did in that particular issue.

And he did hurt Juggernaut before, when he "forgot" about his force field being on.

"and warrior madness thor is regular thor. there is no reason to think otherwise. he just cares less about his opponents well being. if it increased his strength 10 fold, pretty much all his opponents would be a greasy red "

...Therefore its not regular level is it. Just seems we have a different reading of what amping means. When someone has a mindset that makes him use the powers better or amp the stats he already has its not regular levels for me. The same way if he only gets amped in stats and not mindset.

Originally posted by olympian
Was there or not a difference between regular Jugs and 8th day Jugs. Did Classic without powerups ever acted like this?



8th day didnt have any POWER UPS... and yes juggernaut acted just like that. except he wasnt hearing the call. and he wasnt trying to be somewhere... but juggernaut still rampaged JUST like in that issue. have you even read it??


Originally posted by olympian
Different mindset for me its a boost. Physical boosts arent the only ones.


how is this a boost in power??? with rune thor, you are talking about an actual power boost. with warrior madness, there is no actual boost in power...

Originally posted by olympian
What is difficult to understand? When your mindset its different, you use more of your powers or better the ones you already have.


no... juggernaut was just trying to be somewhere, instead of following his own agenda, which he usually does. how does that make him more or less powerful?? it changes nothing.


Originally posted by olympian
I ask you again. Its mindless Hulk the regular Hulk for you?


no, but thats a completely DIFFERENT mindset all together that does change hulks physical abilities. juggernauts physical abilities were not altered.

Originally posted by olympian
Warrior Madness Thor? They dont look different. But they - are - different.


the only difference between thor and WM thor, is that thor just doesnt care in WM state. he wouldnt fair any better against mangog regardless. he would still be beaten to a pulp.


Originally posted by olympian
Yes they increase the performance of theyr regular selfs.


so because juggernaut was trying to follow the call and be somewhere, he was better??? because he was trying NOT to fight thor, thor had no advantage??? lol, you are crazy mixed up on juggernaut.


Originally posted by olympian
I know he never cared, then again he never beat Thor like he did in that issue. There has to be a difference. Either that or Thor was depowered.


neither was powered up, nor down. juggernaut has always been immune to thors attacks, and hes always ran right through thor. even in the second bout. no matter what thor did, nothing hurt juggernaut, and thor got beat up regardless...

Originally posted by olympian
And at regular levels Juggernaut never knocked Thor out unless you count using his hammer momentum against him. Or did what he did in that particular issue.


he didnt knock thor out in vol. #17 either... he just walked through his attacks and countered them with his own. JUST LIKE BEFORE.

Originally posted by olympian
And he did hurt Juggernaut before, when he "forgot" about his force field being on.


the force field isnt what makes juggernaut invulnerable...


Originally posted by olympian
...Therefore its not regular level is it.


WM thor IS thor. they are identical in actual power. just one goes lighter on his opponents. if you think WM thor stands any more of a chance against mangog than REGULAR thor, you would be wrong, cause thor already goes all out against oponents who are better than him.


Originally posted by olympian
Just seems we have a different reading of what amping means.


i understand it perfect... if juggernaut operates at a level 8, then amping means any number bigger than 8. but he was still a 8 in 8th day. he just had a different agenda than normal...

Originally posted by olympian
When someone has a mindset that makes him use the powers better or amp the stats he already has its not regular levels for me. The same way if he only gets amped in stats and not mindset.



this is where you are confused you think just because juggernaut was focusing on something else, besides what is normal that he had more power. which isnt the case.

"8th day didnt have any POWER UPS... and yes juggernaut acted just like that. except he wasnt hearing the call. and he wasnt trying to be somewhere... but juggernaut still rampaged JUST like in that issue. have you even read it??"

Im not talking about stats. There are other kind of boosts that have
influence in someones performance. Did you ever saw Thor pummeled like that? By jugs, with both at full power and with theyr own attacks.

"how is this a boost in power??? with rune thor, you are talking about an actual power boost. with warrior madness, there is no actual boost in power..."

It boosts his performance above what he usually does. Its not a power up ala a outside artifact but it is a boost nothless. Anything that makes you get above what you usually do its a boost. Like the ones i already mentioned.

"no, but thats a completely DIFFERENT mindset all together that does change hulks physical abilities. juggernauts physical abilities were not altered. "

Mindless case was actually simple. Without Banner and a controled level rage he could attain to his limitess strenght ability. This Hulk didnt also had different ablities. What he didnt had was something that -usually- keeps him in check and his strenght.

"he didnt knock thor out in vol. #17 either... he just walked through his attacks and countered them with his own. JUST LIKE BEFORE."

He never walked over Thor like that.

"the force field isnt what makes juggernaut invulnerable..."

No? Then why was he hurt by Thor`s punches. In that case Thor can hurt him even with his durability intact? Seems odd.

"WM thor IS thor. they are identical in actual power. just one goes lighter on his opponents. if you think WM thor stands any more of a chance against mangog than REGULAR thor, you would be wrong, cause thor already goes all out against oponents who are better than him"

It is Thor. Of course it is. Just not its regular way of figthing. Not its reguar self. " Going all out " makes characters figth on a different level than they usually pull off. That being said, yes he would fair better, not winning tho.

"this is where you are confused you think just because juggernaut was focusing on something else, besides what is normal that he had more power. which isnt the case."

Ill re-read the issue when i find it then. But the way Thor was beat seemed definatly out of the usual showings they always had.

Originally posted by olympian
Im not talking about stats. There are other kind of boosts that have
influence in someones performance. Did you ever saw Thor pummeled like that? By jugs, with both at full power and with theyr own attacks.



thor gets pummeled every time... until the one time he depowered juggernaut... a trick that wouldnt work twice cause juggernaut would expect it a second time


Originally posted by olympian
It boosts his performance above what he usually does.



it didnt boost him at all is the thing... he was acting normal, he just had to be somewhere. and thor kept getting in the way. cause juggernaut was rampaging. like always. and he pummeled thor.

Originally posted by olympian
Its not a power up ala a outside artifact but it is a boost nothless.



what was being boosted exactly??? in the juggernaut??? if you can answer that maybe we could get somewhere, cause you are confused... VERY.

Originally posted by olympian
Anything that makes you get above what you usually do its a boost. Like the ones i already mentioned.



nothing was different... nothing was up or down (except thor). but thor has been put on his back in almost every fight with juggernaut...

Originally posted by olympian
Mindless case was actually simple. Without Banner and a controled level rage he could attain to his limitess strenght ability. This Hulk didnt also had different ablities. What he didnt had was something that -usually- keeps him in check and his strenght.



ok, but nothing changed in juggernaut, except he knew he had to be somewhere...

Originally posted by olympian
He never walked over Thor like that.


he always does that to thor. even with the help of the new warriors, thor couldnt do anything to juggernaut. plus all the fights were shorter than #17. that could be why you got to see thor beat up??

Originally posted by olympian
No? Then why was he hurt by Thor`s punches. In that case Thor can hurt him even with his durability intact? Seems odd.



thor could hurt him cause he negated cain markos magic that MADE him the juggernaut. not cause he negated the force field...


Originally posted by olympian
It is Thor. Of course it is. Just not its regular way of figthing.



again, thor has the potential to do that. regular thor that is. but with juggernaut. nothing was different. not even his way of fighting. thor just kept stepping in the way... and juggernaut didnt go all out...


Originally posted by olympian
Ill re-read the issue when i find it then. But the way Thor was beat seemed definatly out of the usual showings they always had.


not really... thor always ended up on the ground or marveling at juggernauts power. why is it different this time??

"thor gets pummeled every time... until the one time he depowered juggernaut... a trick that wouldnt work twice cause juggernaut would expect it a second time "

Having troubles, yes pummeled? No, not for me at least, stalemates are what they end up giving.

"it didnt boost him at all is the thing... he was acting normal, he just had to be somewhere."

Ill re-read it.

"what was being boosted exactly??? in the juggernaut??? if you can answer that maybe we could get somewhere, cause you are confused... VERY."

That example wasent about Juggernaut. The only thing i said here its that a obvious boost ala outside artifacts or drawing more power arent the only kinds. Theres no confusion there.

"he always does that to thor. even with the help of the new warriors, thor couldnt do anything to juggernaut. plus all the fights were shorter than #17. that could be why you got to see thor beat up??"

Except Juggernaut didnt ko Thor before that issue, on its own. He used the opponents hammer momentum for that. They always fough back and forth. " always walking over " its scretching.

"thor could hurt him cause he negated cain markos magic that MADE him the juggernaut. not cause he negated the force field..."

Wich means he didnt had his strenght also, right.

"again, thor has the potential to do that. regular thor that is"

And when he does that, he stops being regular Thor. Thats why we always set up for differences between them. Same for other characters.

"not really... thor always ended up on the ground or marveling at juggernauts power. why is it different this time??"

Being the ground its not what beefs me. Its the actual walking over from the opponent and beating he took without being able to do nothing in return. Wich didnt happened in the previous fights.

In the end he is the one who has resources to lead the win here.

Average showings have all of these rougly equal. About 8th day Jugs ill re-read it when i find it because my first impression was that he had it easier unlike before.

ok, juggernaut routinly beats up thor... such as

this is the result of a backhand... a BACKHAND... juggernaut always beats up thor. this is before any nausea

this is without any power ups, just like 8th day

And where im saying Juggernaut doesnt have the strenght to do that at regular levels? Back and forth i said.

He didnt "owned" him physically in those either, like he did in the issue wer talking about.

Btw your first pic doesnt show totally, just a part.

this is while juggernaut is powered DOWN...

all i'm saying is every time thor steps in the way, he gets beat up, just like in the pictures above, just like in 8th day. juggernaut wasnt powered up, thor was just more persistant in trying to stop him...


and its not back and forth, thor throws everything he has, and juggernaut takes it, and dishs out a pulping to thor... its consistant between these 2.

there are also other pictures of juggernaut landing blows on thor while powered down and still putting him down... just like 8th day. thor is just all over the place when fighting juggernaut. the only time he could harm him is when he depowered juggernaut.

"all i'm saying is every time thor steps in the way, he gets beat up, just like in the pictures above, just like in 8th day"

He gets more hurt because he doesnt have Jugernauts durability, we all agree and know that. Your pics however seem to give the maybe wrong impression that strenghtwise hes above. When he is not.

Physically except for his durability they are on par.

About 8th day, lets see if i manage to find the whole story and ill either concead or give reason to my memory.

About the figth itself here, its another matter wich i already gave my opinion. Its either a tossup or Thor uses his more exotic powers for the win.

Other way around its also possible just not the majority for me.

Originally posted by olympian
He gets more hurt because he doesnt have Jugernauts durability, we all agree and know that.



exactly... but its consistant in both 8th day, and regular thor/juggernaut appearances... right???

Originally posted by olympian
Your pics however seem to give the maybe wrong impression that strenghtwise hes above. When he is not.



how so??? mind showing me where thors punchs show more damage than juggernauts??? juggernaut while depowered was still flinging thor around. thor on the other hand STILL couldnt drop juggernaut, despite his power loss. a backhand from juggernaut can send thor hurtling a city block or more??? yet thor cant move juggernaut??? hmmm... sounds kinda suspect.


Originally posted by olympian
Physically except for his durability they are on par.


how so???

Originally posted by olympian
About 8th day, lets see if i manage to find the whole story and ill either concead or give reason to my memory.



i got all day...

Originally posted by olympian
About the figth itself here, its another matter wich i already gave my opinion. Its either a tossup or Thor uses his more exotic powers for the win.



if thor cant beat juggernaut, how can he pull the win for his team???


Originally posted by olympian
Other way around its also possible just not the majority for me.


to each his own i guess...

Jug was enhanced I think, I can't say I remember him -getting- the enhancement, but I do remember Thor saying Jug was 100 times stronger than normal.

But I honestly don't remember anything about him getting an enhancment or looking different, all that was said about it was Thor's remark after Jug wailed on him.

thor over exaggerates alot of things though , he exclaims that warrior maddness increases his abilities 10 fold. and if juggernauts power increased 100 fold, the first and only punch would have killed thor and splattered him over a good portion of the street.

http://www.comicboards.com/comicbattles/view.php?trd=050107202435&q=8th%20day%20Juggernaut

Thor remarks how Jugs its more powerful and he agrees.

Not to mention him saying that for the first time ever he feels the might to - crush- beings like Thor.

Theres also mention of a different mindset. A more " mindless" one.

Not to mention another Thor statement of how much his migh also increased in comparation with before. Dont mind with the number. All statements go to the same point. He was migther than before.

How does this sounds -regular- for you?

Warrior madness DOES increase his power 10x, Odin has said this.

Well, he may have been smashed if Jug was wanting to fight.


I have all four issues, I'll have to re-read it, but probably he got a boost so that he may fight in the war of the exemplars.

"Warrior madness DOES increase his power 10x, Odin has said this"

The one i recall was Thor saying in before the final assault against Onslaught. When he was trying to wear the " bear shirt ".

"Well, he may have been smashed if Jug was wanting to fight."

Juggernaut fought serious before against Thor. According to KillAll he didnt wanted to fight like that here tho. And still gave Thor a beating with nothing in result.

"I have all four issues, I'll have to re-read it, but probably he got a boost so that he may fight in the war of the exemplars."

This happened before Avengers #12 when they fought all exemplars, right?

Originally posted by olympian
Juggernaut fought serious before against Thor.



when??? where??? the only one he fought serious in, was thier second round. and that was cause thors persistance...

Originally posted by olympian
According to KillAll he didnt wanted to fight like that here tho. And still gave Thor a beating with nothing in result.

in issue 17 he wasnt wanting to fight thor. but he isnt above doing it... he will. same thing in 411, and 412, if he wanted he could have continued to fight thor, but chose to go after the new warriors instead...

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Neptune/7060/JuggyThor1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Neptune/7060/JuggyThor2.jpg
No one can say to has stun the Juggernaut for a while, Thor has.

^^^^^^ also while juggernaut was depowered which still proves my point. juggernaut in this state was able to drop thor with a single punch, while thor with multiple blows couldnt put juggernaut down...


this is the only time thor has had the upper hand, and it wasnt even the whole fight... it was a 60 second gap where juggernauts power (most) was missing...

Originally posted by KillAll
^^^^^^ also while juggernaut was depowered which still proves my point. juggernaut in this state was able to drop thor with a single punch, while thor with multiple blows couldnt put juggernaut down...


this is the only time thor has had the upper hand, and it wasnt even the whole fight... it was a 60 second gap where juggernauts power (most) was missing...
Juggernaut was still INDESTRUCTIBLE.
Understand?
Thor was dropped?

Able to now lay hits on The Juggernaut and being a much better hand-to-hand combatant Thor rains blow after blow on The Juggernaut. Hitting him across the face and following up quickly with a vicious blow to his stomach rapidly,not allowing The Juggernaut any time to regain his bearing. Thor actually manages to daze him but The Juggernaut refuses to fall stating defeat is not in his vocabulary. Thor cocks back to throw what he feels will be the finishing blow but right before it connects The Juggernaut's forcefield comes back and deflects it. 60 seconds having expired which means Mjolnir had to return to Thor's hand. Thor's valiant effort goes for naught as The Juggernaut recovers completely from the barraging assault the instant his protective spell returns.
Seeing the success Thor had after he discerned the nature of his power Cain decided that since Mjolnir must be the source of Thor's power that if he got it he would be unbeatable as well as unstoppable. He also was pretty sure that Thor wouldn't give it up willingly so he decides to pick up a stone pillar and beat it out of him(gotta love Juggy's way of doing things). But Cain finds when he goes to lift Mjolnir that he can't even budge it. To him this didn't add up since he knew he was at the very least Thor's equal in strength and Thor lifts it easy. As Mjolnir returned to his hand Thor explains that Mjolnir can only be lifted by those of the right character.

Dropped?
Thor was still on his feet able to catch his hammer again my friend.
Facts are you are trying to make Thor's feat less impressive.
He used Mjolnir to rend Juggy's invulnerability slightly less effective, showing that under the right circumstances his strenght make the Juggernaut slow for a while.
He used his hammer, his weapon, so what's the matter?
Facts are Thor was able to STUN Juggernaut, no one has accomplished a feat like that.
Arguing that he used a trick of Mjolnir is like saying Superman use heat vision in some of his fight to keep at bay his enemies and recover.

"when??? where??? the only one he fought serious in, was thier second round. and that was cause thors persistance..."

I was talking about theyr previous fights as opossed to this one, where he could care less and was toying with him.

OK I don't get where you don't think Juggs didn't have a power up in 8th Day. Thor himself said he was at least 100 times stronger.
What happens is this Cyttorak feels it is time for Cain to do is purpose the Exemplar War. He takes Cain's free will away and in doing so also gave himn a boost of power.
Now the kicker Juggernaut could always access this power if Cain ever chooses to do so. You see Cain is content with the basic upgrade he has Classic Juggs power but with time and training he could easily learn to control his power. If learned to do this he could at base be around 8th Day all the time and get as strong as needed to put anyone down. It's his power tyhe mystic enchantment grants him invulnerability and great stregnth. Now this happens by him drawing power from Cyttorak. Normally he only draws the Classic Power level from him because it is what he is given and he never has bothered to try and harness that power.
8th Day Juggernaut is just outside control allowing Cain to do so. Basically this is why many people feel that Juggernaut is unlimited in strength as he should be able to call up as much power or more as needed from Cyttorak but he doesn't because Cain is a moron who doesn't care about training.

Originally posted by newjak86
Thor himself said he was at least 100 times stronger.


mistake 1) thor exaggerates things all the time. just like stating that he is stronger than hulk, or that warrior maddness increases his abilities 10 fold. it does not . if juggernaut were 100 times stronger thor would have been paste.


Originally posted by newjak86
What happens is this Cyttorak feels it is time for Cain to do is purpose the Exemplar War. He takes Cain's free will away and in doing so also gave himn a boost of power.


mistake 2) cain marko still had control of the power. cyttorak didnt take anything away. cain marko heard the call however, and knew he had to be somewhere...


Originally posted by newjak86
Now the kicker Juggernaut could always access this power if Cain ever chooses to do so. You see Cain is content with the basic upgrade he has Classic Juggs power but with time and training he could easily learn to control his power.


8th day IS regular juggernaut. he wasnt any bigger/smaller he wasnt up or down in power. he was simply juggernaut, trying to be somewhere.


Originally posted by newjak86
If learned to do this he could at base be around 8th Day all the time and get as strong as needed to put anyone down.


general consesus around marvel is juggernaut can get as strong as need be. but generally he doesnt do that. 8th day isnt an example. "trion" juggernaut is juggernaut tapping into his power. or juggernaut that has long range energy projections that shoot from his hands.... thats juggernaut tapping into his powers. however 8th day, wasnt any different than his previous appearances save he knew he had a purpose.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Dropped?
Thor was still on his feet able to catch his hammer again my friend.


yes he was... but juggernaut still dropped thor, devoid of most of his power. please pull your issue out and i can give you a page number...


Originally posted by K3VIL
Facts are you are trying to make Thor's feat less impressive.


not at all... that was the ONLY time he even remotely had the upper hand in a fight w/ juggernaut. so in 5 issues, thor had HALF a fight to his name. cause he wasnt winning in the beginning , and his efforts went for not, just like you copied and pasted. because as soon as juggernauts power returned he was healed.


Originally posted by K3VIL
He used Mjolnir to rend Juggy's invulnerability slightly less effective, showing that under the right circumstances his strenght make the Juggernaut slow for a while.
He used his hammer, his weapon, so what's the matter?


i didnt say anything was the matter... i said juggernaut has the upperhand previous to 8th day (thor 411 and 412) and in half the battle where thor turned the tide. had the battle gone on, thor would have still been ineffective against juggernaut because his power had returned.

K3VIL, let's not get ahead of ourselves here, ok?

Thor negated Jug's connection to Cyttorak, thus rendering Jug as powerful as he is right now, think about it.

Current Jugs is the exact same guy Thor made dizzy in that fight......not so impressive eh?

Classic Jugs usually wailed on Thor, Hulk, Colossus, Thing or any other brick out there with no repercussions other than the fact a team of telepaths nearly always appear and tag his ass and save the hero from a massive ass beating.

Originally posted by long pig
K3VIL, let's not get ahead of ourselves here, ok?

Thor negated Jug's connection to Cyttorak, thus rendering Jug as powerful as he is right now, think about it.

Current Jugs is the exact same guy Thor made dizzy in that fight......not so impressive eh?

Classic Jugs usually wailed on Thor, Hulk, Colossus, Thing or any other brick out there with no repercussions other than the fact a team of telepaths nearly always appear and tag his ass and save the hero from a massive ass beating. Or he leaves remember Spiderman

I've never seen a "blood lust" Juggernaut, he's always kinda "meh" about every fight.

One thing I did like about 8th day was the portrayal of Jugs being not evil or good but more like an essential force of nature existing beyond both, even though he didn't know it.
The ying to a "superman jobber aura's" yang type thing.

Awesomeness.

Originally posted by long pig
I've never seen a "blood lust" Juggernaut, he's always kinda "meh" about every fight.

One thing I did like about 8th day was the portrayal of Jugs being not evil or good but more like an essential force of nature existing beyond both, even though he didn't know it.
The ying to a "superman jobber aura's" yang type thing.

Awesomeness. I know people seem to forget that Juggs doesn't go all out in his fights. Even with the X-Men he throws them out of the way because they are in his way. He never really tries to fight them in a to the death type setting.

Damn, re-reading 8th day sucks.

Cyttorak does NOT look like that, he isn't a brute or a hulking fighter, he doesn't talk like that or even act in that way.

Who wrote this tripe?

Example:

This IS Cyttorak--->http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/cyttor2.jpg

This guy who looks like Juggernaut is NOT Cyttorak----->http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/exemplar2.jpg

I know but since Onslaught is where most people get their info from they aren't aware that the Crimson Cosmos and Cyttorak are different.

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/cyttor1.jpg<---Cyttorak



http://www.uncannyxmen.net/images/spotlight/juggernaut17.jpg
See the difference when Jug and Cytt' are together?

One looks like Juggernaut, the other looks like a pirate.


Hmmm....reading some old Strange/Jug x-overs and it seems Jugs was punching through dimensions waaaaaaayyyy before becoming Trion.

Hulk and Juggernaut 7/10

Originally posted by Grammaton
Hulk and Juggernaut 7/10