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Since the FF are unfairly put up against X-men who can turn their minds off and they're not given any toys to play with, let's even the odds a bit, shall we?

The Fantastic Four vs.

Colossus
Storm
Polaris
Iceman

Here's the stipulation, to be even fair:

The Fantastic Four have one hour of prep to create anything they've already created in an hour. The X-men also have an hour of prep to pull up anything they already have in their mansion.

The FF can't use something they already have, they can only rebuild stuff that it took them an hour or less to build last time

The X-men, on the other hand, can't build anything new and can't consult Forge, but they can take any device they already have in their mansion....except Cerebro/a

Now let's have some fun.

This should be a good fight, but I am leaning towards the X-Men.

Iceman is on there, xmen, definitely.

sue shields the ff and johnny goes nova. the end.

Methinks I may have to make another FF vs. X-men thread without psionics AND without Iceman by the time all is said and done, heh heh....

Why do people keep using CIS tactics?

Demi, USE iceman, but make it bloodlust, so they can go "nova".

Originally posted by leonidas
sue shields the ff and johnny goes nova. the end.

Hmm. I picked Polaris for just such an eventuality.

yeah, polaris creates a shield and protects them all, then reverses the blood-flow in everybody

This is light stuff so far, kids. It'll get interesting when the major FF supporters get here and start making use of the prep time and inventions.

Iceman and Human Torch elementaly cancel eachother out..

Collusus and Thing are evenly matched..

I have no idea who Polaris is, but I'm sure Storm could take Mr. Fantastic and Invisible Woman without much effort..

I hate muties.. Exsept for Ultimate Dazzler, she looks like Bran-Bran and makes me think happy thoughts..

This thread, has got skipped...

With regards to Ice-Man/Torch, it's whoever lands first. Ice-Man freezing Torch's veins won't deal with the other X-Men or whatever Reed has to neutralise him, seeing as he's allowed to.

If Torch goes nova, he will hit everyone with it. So it's a question of max power. Colossus can't withstand the heat Torch could put out, so he'd melt or something. It's hard to say what would happen given that we can't know who would attack who, how, when, why etc.

Given powers, given the fact that apparantly bloodlust (stupid rule) is on, I'm going with the F4 due to the fact that Reed has the chance to research and build anything that could neutralise specific members, plus Jonny's nova, Sue's power etc. Reed could easily give Storm a claustrophobia attack, another possibility.

-AC

So what do they make in an hour?

It takes a while for Torch to go nova. Ive never seen him do it instantly, unless someone knows otherwise. Iceman and Polaris could beat the team via blood manipulation.Colossus and Thing have a long battle, but current Colossus may be able to pull off a victory. After Iceman beats Torch, he freezes Reed. Or maybe he freezes Reed first, then goes for Torch.

X-men win imo.

You brought up some good points Alpha.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
With regards to Ice-Man/Torch, it's whoever lands first. Ice-Man freezing Torch's veins won't deal with the other X-Men or whatever Reed has to neutralise him, seeing as he's allowed to.

If Torch goes nova, he will hit everyone with it. So it's a question of max power. Colossus can't withstand the heat Torch could put out, so he'd melt or something. It's hard to say what would happen given that we can't know who would attack who, how, when, why etc.

Given powers, given the fact that apparantly bloodlust (stupid rule) is on, I'm going with the F4 due to the fact that Reed has the chance to research and build anything that could neutralise specific members, plus Jonny's nova, Sue's power etc. Reed could easily give Storm a claustrophobia attack, another possibility.

-AC

A reasonable strategem. But remember, you're limited to inventions that have already been invented by the FF. So what previous inventions has Reed developed that he could employ against the X-men that might take advantage of things like, for example, Storm's claustrophobia?

Originally posted by Creshosk
So what do they make in an hour?

I dunno, shall I ask Reed?

Jrod, why does it take time for Torch to go nova but somehow Polaris has the ability to instantly manipulate blood? It doesn't take time for Torch to go nova. There have been times when he has, times when he hasn't.

-AC

Originally posted by demigawd
A reasonable strategem. But remember, you're limited to inventions that have already been invented by the FF. So what previous inventions has Reed developed that he could employ against the X-men that might take advantage of things like, for example, Storm's claustrophobia?

Reed doesn't need inventions for that. I don't mentally note all the gizmo's Reed could come up with.

I do think it's a bit random to give him prep time but not allow him to prep.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I dunno, shall I ask Reed?

Jrod, why does it take time for Torch to go nova but somehow Polaris has the ability to instantly manipulate blood? It doesn't take time for Torch to go nova. There have been times when he has, times when he hasn't.

-AC

Polaris or Iceman manipulation the blood has been done instatly. Polaris once knocked out most of the people in the X-Mansion in an instant.

When has Torch ever gone nova instantly? Without actually having to rapidly rise his temperature?

Originally posted by jrodslam
When has Torch ever gone nova instantly? Without actually having to rapidly rise his temperature?

....................

When did I say it's instant? I said it doesn't take time. As in, alot of. He can do it fast by, as you said, rapidly raising his temp.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
....................

When did I say it's instant? I said it doesn't take time. As in, alot of. He can do it fast by, as you said, rapidly raising his temp.

-AC

Lol ok. When you said that "it doesnt take time for Torch to go nova", i assumed you were saying that he could do it instantly. My bad.

What Iceman and Polaris could do to the blood is pretty instant.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Reed doesn't need inventions for that. I don't mentally note all the gizmo's Reed could come up with.

I do think it's a bit random to give him prep time but not allow him to prep.

-AC

He has prep time. But I put a restriction on things they've already build quickly to prevent Batmanitis from setting in. You know, "Oh, he could just build an anti-non-psionic-X-men ray", which sort of destroys the point of an actual debate, because then you're just limited to your personal imagination.

Well, to be fair, he could do that though.

It's not as if he's pulling it out of a utility belt. You're giving him knowledge of the fight, combatants and prep time. He's not gonna NOT make something to aid the fight is he?

-AC

Originally posted by demigawd
He has prep time. But I put a restriction on things they've already build quickly to prevent Batmanitis from setting in. You know, "Oh, he could just build an anti-non-psionic-X-men ray", which sort of destroys the point of an actual debate, because then you're just limited to your personal imagination. Batmantis:

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by Creshosk
So what do they make in an hour?
I dunno, shall I ask Reed?

And this is why people don't make threads with open prep time. Because then it's easy to simply say, "He's *insert favorite character here*! He'll think of SOMETHING! He always does!".

Because, frankly, how do you counter something like "He'll think of something!"?

That's why you have to stick to the stips. Only inventions they've invented quickly before. It's the only way to be fair and promote an actual debate.

Originally posted by demigawd


Because, frankly, how do you counter something like "He'll think of something!"?



Other character will think of something else?

Originally posted by demigawd
Because, frankly, how do you counter something like "He'll think of something!"?

*Insert opponent here* Will spend the prep time screwing *Insert prep user here*'s wife/daughter/sister/brother/etc while *Insert opponent here* watches in dismay, only to find their prep time gone and themselves unprepared.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Other character will think of something else?

Which, of course, takes everything to the realm of the ridiculously obscure.

FF supporter: He's Reed! He made Galactus flee with prep! He'll think of something! He always does!

XM supporter: No way! The X-men will think of something to stop him!

See how well that doesn't work?

Originally posted by demigawd
Which, of course, takes everything to the realm of the ridiculously obscure.

FF supporter: He's Reed! He made Galactus flee with prep! He'll think of something! He always does!

XM supporter: No way! The X-men will think of something to stop him!

See how well that doesn't work?

Yes, it was a joke...

Originally posted by Nataku8188
*Insert opponent here* Will spend the prep time screwing *Insert prep user here*'s wife/daughter/sister/brother/etc while *Insert opponent here* watches in dismay, only to find their prep time gone and themselves unprepared.

Why didn't I think of that? lol.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Yes, it was a joke...

Next time smile when you tell it so I'll know you're joking.

Originally posted by demigawd
Next time smile when you tell it so I'll know you're joking.

Nah, that's 90's comedy.

I'm bringing it into the 00's.

Originally posted by demigawd
And this is why people don't make threads with open prep time. Because then it's easy to simply say, "He's *insert favorite character here*! He'll think of SOMETHING! He always does!".

Because, frankly, how do you counter something like "He'll think of something!"?

That's why you have to stick to the stips. Only inventions they've invented quickly before. It's the only way to be fair and promote an actual debate. Which is why I hate the prep rule, its ridiculous.

No offence, but you can't give Reed prep time, then restrict it.

Realistically if you said to Reed, "Oi mate, you're fighting the X-Men soon. Prep up" he would come with something to win wouldn't he? Being the smartest man on Earth and all that.

So to say he's allowed prep, but not to prep, is a bit ridiculous. I agree with the whole nonsense of "He's Reed!", but bearing in mind that he IS Reed Richards and WITH prep he more than likely could do something like that. Not because of his name, but ability.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No offence, but you can't give Reed prep time, then restrict it. Why not? it's his thread.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Realistically if you said to Reed, "Oi mate, you're fighting the X-Men soon. Prep up" he would come with something to win wouldn't he? Being the smartest man on Earth and all that.So, what would he make?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I agree with the whole nonsense of "He's Reed!", but bearing in mind that he IS Reed ...

Originally posted by Creshosk
Why not? it's his thread.

I'm not telling him he literally is incapable of doing it, saying that logically you cannot.

Originally posted by Creshosk
So, what would he make?

I'll answer that with another question. If you give him prep, it's more or less guaranteed he'll make something to aid him isn't it? Yes. So why do the weapon specs make any difference? I don't know what he'd specifically make, that would be me being overly presumptuous. I'm just saying it's a near definate that he would make SOMETHING, given prep time.

Originally posted by Creshosk


What's funny? If you understood the point I made and didn't cut off the rest of the sentence you might have had something to go by. My point was that it's stupid to say he'd win because of his name. He's Reed Richards, that's not why he'd win. He'd win because of what being Reed Richards means. Stop misinterpreting.

Don't alter my quotes for your purposes.

-AC

Who says it's logical? You?

Don't like it? Make your own thread.

I think reed should prep away, but its the fact that there should be certain parameters when debating.
Like in batman vs iceman, "he's batman, he'll find a way!"
It isn't fair, because its impossible to counter.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

It isn't fair, because its impossible to counter.

Although in general that's the manner in which you'd win a debate.

Fair point though. The problem with characters like Reed and Batman is that they do usually find a way, be that what it may. Makes it hard to debate for or against, in a way.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I think reed should prep away, but its the fact that there should be certain parameters when debating.
Like in batman vs iceman, "he's batman, he'll find a way!"
It isn't fair, because its impossible to counter.
yes, and there is nothing wrong with putting parameters on situational hypothetical debates anyway.

Most of the time to get things like this started we involve some sort of plot device to force them to fight anyway.

Usually a powerful being sets up the parameters. Usually with a threat to get them to cooperate.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Who says it's logical? You?

Don't like it? Make your own thread.

I never said it was logical you applejohn, I said it's not logical. It's not logical to allow him prep and then cut out a possibility that is one of the more likely occurances just because you don't like it.

That's a fact. Don't like it? Don't give him prep.

-AC

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Although in general that's the manner in which you'd win a debate.

Fair point though. The problem with characters like Reed and Batman is that they do usually find a way, be that what it may. Makes it hard to debate for or against, in a way. And its annoying. Particularly when they displace with
"I'm not as smart as XXX" Which though technically true for story reading and writing, isn't valid in this sort of debate where its all speculation anyway.

But not speculating you really do present a weaker argument.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I never said it was logical you applejohn, I said it's not logical. It's not logical to allow him prep and then cut out a possibility that is one of the more likely occurances just because you don't like it.

That's a fact. Don't like it? Don't give him prep.

-AC Now your're being fallicious. You knew what I meant.

DON'T give him prep?

Then listen to you complain about how its a part of his character and how you might as well take the claws from wolverine?

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Although in general that's the manner in which you'd win a debate.

Fair point though. The problem with characters like Reed and Batman is that they do usually find a way, be that what it may. Makes it hard to debate for or against, in a way. Yes, its hard to counter, because its like a " I'm right, you're wrong argument"

No premise, just a conclusion, doesn't correlate too well.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No offence, but you can't give Reed prep time, then restrict it.

Realistically if you said to Reed, "Oi mate, you're fighting the X-Men soon. Prep up" he would come with something to win wouldn't he? Being the smartest man on Earth and all that.

So to say he's allowed prep, but not to prep, is a bit ridiculous. I agree with the whole nonsense of "He's Reed!", but bearing in mind that he IS Reed Richards and WITH prep he more than likely could do something like that. Not because of his name, but ability.

-AC

Yeah, but don't you see the problem with that? Reed Richards isn't infallible, right? He's built inventions that have failed, he's come up with plans that have fallen short, and not just against cosmics, but even against ordinary opponents, like the Frightful Four. So the problem is that the "Reed will think of something" argument can't take into account the element of failure because "Reed will think of something" has no points to counter. How can I work with that? How can I disagree with that with facts against an argument that nebulous? That builds in an element of invincibility because there's no way to calculate the odds that he will fail, or no way to calculate the possibility that he CAN'T build something for everybody in an hour. And there's no way that "he'll think of something" can include those possibilities in an equation. So simply saying, "he'll think of something" stacks the deck unfairly in his favor and gives him way too much benefit of the doubt. See what I'm saying?

In order to keep things grounded and tangible, you HAVE to temper it with citations of things he's built on short notice in the past that could be used to prove that he could build a counter for each X-man on only an hour's notice, otherwise...what's the point of adding prep to a battle board?

Yeah.

It's also a negative though, because in using the argument you can't posit an actual method, you have merely to rely on past form.

Oh well. S'only discussing comics on the internet.

Originally posted by demigawd
Yeah, but don't you see the problem with that? Reed Richards isn't infallible, right? He's built inventions that have failed, he's come up with plans that have fallen short, and not just against cosmics, but even against ordinary opponents, like the Frightful Four. So the problem is that the "Reed will think of something" argument can't take into account the element of failure because "Reed will think of something" has no points to counter.

That seemed a good counter.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Now your're being fallicious. You knew what I meant.

DON'T give him prep?

Then listen to you complain about how its a part of his character and how you might as well take the claws from wolverine?

I'm not saying that's a good option, I'm saying if you don't like him with prep, don't give him it. Either way it's a difficult situation.

As Victor said above, then Demigawd followed, saying "Reed will come up with something" is a bit random however likely it is that he would. I agree. You can't really take prep away from a man who uses it all the time, at the same time you can't really fairly limit his prep. But for the purposes of the battle, you might aswell just say allow him to use any gadget he has used before. Don't state it as creation prep, state it as strategising prep.

-AC

Right, which is why I think prep should be out altogether. but, like AC says, if it's a defining characteristic of a character, it's not exactly fair to them, either.

But prep is the ultimate plot device, the greatest deux ex machina, and saying, "he'll think of something" really has no place in a good debate, even if it's how a handful of characters function.

I think the correct way to state THIS stip would be to say he can prep with strategy only then. That's the fairest way to do it even if "He'd come up with something" is a credible point.

-AC

It's not really a deus ex machina if they come up with it before the fight though.

I suppose it's fair to that it should be reasonably specified rather than completely opaque.

Unless it was a deity like entity that was setting down the rules. . . That makes any stipulation beleiveable.

fighting deus ex machina with deus. . .

ok, but if we use prep with strategy, then it's creating specific battle scenarios, which you've lambasted in the past, AC.

So the question is - is there such a thing as a fair battle involving the Fantastic Four, Doom, Batman, Panther, etc. that creates level ground and ample debating room for both them and their opponents?

Originally posted by demigawd
ok, but if we use prep with strategy, then it's creating specific battle scenarios, which you've lambasted in the past, AC.

So the question is - is there such a thing as a fair battle involving the Fantastic Four, Doom, Batman, Panther, etc. that creates level ground and ample debating room for both them and their opponents?

Probably not. Not much we can do about that though. It's almost an irrefragable victory, those guys plus prep-time.

I'm not saying I'm gonna lay out the strategy though. I'm just saying that we should judge the fight on the basis that Reed is gonna go into it with a plan, whatever that may be.

-AC

lol, so then it's a guarantee that someone (AC) is always going to be upset because it's denying FF's key skill, or someone (me) is always going to be upset because I don't have any facts to work with.

Ah well. Screw prep.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm not saying I'm gonna lay out the strategy though. I'm just saying that we should judge the fight on the basis that Reed is gonna go into it with a plan, whatever that may be.

-AC

That's fair, but what's the plan? And if it's just "a plan", then it's the same problem as before. If we don't know the plan, how can we debate its merits?

Well if Reed knows the opponents very well from prepping, the safest assumption to make is that he'll inform the rest of the info he's discovered and given that they are better working as a team than most others, I would also say it's safe to assume that he would work out what members would be best suited to match up with their opponents.

It's too hard to specify because we don't know who will decide what. Just occurances we think might happen.

-AC

Works for The A-Team.

And isn't that, really, all that matters?

Yeah.

Yeah it is.

-AC

lol. I don't know what to tell you. I tried to make some tangible prep, but it's not to be. Sometimes AC's just like my mother...she's never satisfied.

Originally posted by demigawd
Sometimes AC's just like my mother...she's never satisfied.

Why do we scream at each other?

This is what it sounds like...when doves cry *piano riff*

Do...dododo....doo doo d-doo.

-AC

-do

Depends on what Reed builds. You put Iceman on the team demigawd - and Polaris is there too - so thus far I'm leaning towards the X-Men.

Reed has built machines to alter the Thing's DNA right? They did'nt really work on Ben, but they might work on the X-men, somehow possibly altering their DNA, I don't know if he's ever built one in an hour tho.... and it might just make the X-men stronger......

Originally posted by ArtemisEntreri
Reed has built machines to alter the Thing's DNA right? They did'nt really work on Ben, but they might work on the X-men, somehow possibly altering their DNA, I don't know if he's ever built one in an hour tho.... and it might just make the X-men stronger......
Well that was nice and indecisive.

Originally posted by ArtemisEntreri
Reed has built machines to alter the Thing's DNA right? They did'nt really work on Ben, but they might work on the X-men, somehow possibly altering their DNA, I don't know if he's ever built one in an hour tho.... and it might just make the X-men stronger...... Yeah, when Wolverine get altered he tend to get stronger. . .

imo, with prep the fantastic four win, but w/out prep time and just a straight up fight with no gadgets, then the x-men win

Well, that's mighty diplomatic of you, stormfront.

what do you mean

Originally posted by Creshosk
Yeah, when Wolverine get altered he tend to get stronger. . .

Wolverine's not in this fight.....

Originally posted by ArtemisEntreri
Wolverine's not in this fight..... He was an example.

I realize that. But it might work on these other mutants, cuz everyones DNA is different. And besides, all richards has to do is build a cheap radio with Latverian frequencies and offer the once-in-a-lifetime chance to kill these four muties to the unstoppable DOCTOR DOOM

Originally posted by ArtemisEntreri
I realize that. But it might work on these other mutants, cuz everyones DNA is different. And besides, all richards has to do is build a cheap radio with Latverian frequencies and offer the once-in-a-lifetime chance to kill these four muties to the unstoppable DOCTOR DOOM Didn't work on Iceman.

Anyway, no outside interference.

maybe Lorna could do the same thing that Magneto does and absorb storm's lightning enhancing her EM powers, and send an em pulse through the FF or the like, that's all I have that doesnt involve machinery

Well understanding Reed he could possibly biuld a machine that could effect the mutant gene causing it to reverse back to pre evolutionary status.

Originally posted by stormfront13
what do you mean

It's how we ALL can win here!

Originally posted by newjak86
Well understanding Reed he could possibly biuld a machine that could effect the mutant gene causing it to reverse back to pre evolutionary status.

In an hour? Bearing in mind that in 20 years he couldn't invent something to turn his best friend and most tortured soul human?

Originally posted by demigawd
In an hour? Bearing in mind that in 20 years he couldn't invent something to turn his best friend and most tortured soul human? I know you people were just asking for a more direct answer on what could Reed possibly build or do then just Reed builds something.
Also there is a distinct difference between Thing and a mutant. Thing was changed by Cosmic forces Mutants are all genetic scientific meaning that the forces that make them fall into Reed's field of expertise more. The likeliness of him building a machine to neutralize the mutant gene is not as far off as one would think.

Originally posted by demigawd
In an hour? Bearing in mind that in 20 years he couldn't invent something to turn his best friend and most tortured soul human?

That's probably PIS anyway.

Pretty long running PIS, lol.

didn't it take forge over an hour to make the machine that turns off the mutant gene? his power is to literally create anything he can imagine, so if he can't do it in an hour then it's highly doubtful reed could.

Originally posted by newjak86
I know you people were just asking for a more direct answer on what could Reed possibly build or do then just Reed builds something.
Also there is a distinct difference between Thing and a mutant. Thing was changed by Cosmic forces Mutants are all genetic scientific meaning that the forces that make them fall into Reed's field of expertise more. The likeliness of him building a machine to neutralize the mutant gene is not as far off as one would think.

I think that's a good point. And given how many of these things have been built in the past, it's certain buildable. But...can he do it in an hour? (remember, he'd have to build it from scratch according to the rules). It's taken considerable effort for it to be done in the past, like the YEARS it took for the High Evolutionary to build before Sinister took it over.

Originally posted by demigawd
I think that's a good point. And given how many of these things have been built in the past, it's certain buildable. But...can he do it in an hour? (remember, he'd have to build it from scratch according to the rules). It's taken considerable effort for it to be done in the past, like the YEARS it took for the High Evolutionary to build before Sinister took it over. As Storm said it took Forge an hour to build a similar device and despite the fact it is his power Forge doesn't normally go around building anything at anytime. I still put Reed above Forge. Plus Reed already has an understanding of how the mutants gene works as Mutants are common. What takes things so long to build is compiling data and figuring out how things work and what things work which are already available to Reed. Since the data and other variables are already taken care of it is simply placing them in to a machine which uses them which Reed is very capable of dueing in little time.

Originally posted by demigawd
Pretty long running PIS, lol.

Yeah.

Like the kids in Dungeons and Dragons never getting home.

Originally posted by newjak86
As Storm said it took Forge an hour to build a similar device and despite the fact it is his power Forge doesn't normally go around building anything at anytime. I still put Reed above Forge. Plus Reed already has an understanding of how the mutants gene works as Mutants are common. What takes things so long to build is compiling data and figuring out how things work and what things work which are already available to Reed. Since the data and other variables are already taken care of it is simply placing them in to a machine which uses them which Reed is very capable of dueing in little time.

alright

1)I never said it took forg an hour, I said over an hour.

2)why would you put reed above forge? forges power is to create anything he can magine. if they had to build a mutant gene-nullifer, then forge should win seeing as he has more expierence building things like that, and the fact that it's his power to do it.

Originally posted by newjak86
I know you people were just asking for a more direct answer on what could Reed possibly build or do then just Reed builds something.
Also there is a distinct difference between Thing and a mutant. Thing was changed by Cosmic forces Mutants are all genetic scientific meaning that the forces that make them fall into Reed's field of expertise more. The likeliness of him building a machine to neutralize the mutant gene is not as far off as one would think. Actually The X-Men are born mutants.

Spiderman, the fantastic four, and the hulk are also mutants. . . they were changed on a genetic level, it's in their genes too.

Originally posted by newjak86
As Storm said it took Forge an hour to build a similar device and despite the fact it is his power Forge doesn't normally go around building anything at anytime. OVER an hour, And yes it is his power. he does it naturally and without needing to understand how it works.

Originally posted by newjak86
I still put Reed above Forge. Reed has to figure out how it works. Forge just needs to make it.

Originally posted by newjak86
Plus Reed already has an understanding of how the mutants gene works as Mutants are common. Forge didn't need to know. It's part of his power. It took him over an hour.



Originally posted by newjak86
What takes things so long to build is compiling data and figuring out how things work and what things work which are already available to Reed. Actually he still needs to figure out how they work.

Forge doesn't. Forge is already at the point in invention where he's ready to build the final working model. Reed starts at square one.

Originally posted by newjak86
Since the data and other variables are already taken care of it is simply placing them in to a machine which uses them which Reed is very capable of dueing in little time. Actually he still has to figure them out. Forge doesn't.

Say has Reed ever even built something like this?

Originally posted by demigawd
I think that's a good point. And given how many of these things have been built in the past, it's certain buildable. But...can he do it in an hour? (remember, he'd have to build it from scratch according to the rules). It's taken considerable effort for it to be done in the past, like the YEARS it took for the High Evolutionary to build before Sinister took it over. And he'd have to have built it before.

Reed has the skill, but Forge has the gift, there's a difference there...

Originally posted by stormfront13
alright

1)I never said it took forg an hour, I said over an hour.

2)why would you put reed above forge? forges power is to create anything he can magine. if they had to build a mutant gene-nullifer, then forge should win seeing as he has more expierence building things like that, and the fact that it's his power to do it. Then that is my fault as I only read an hour not over an hour. Anyway I give to Reed because overall he seems to have done more impressive things with prep time and inventing. While it is Forge's power he has never shown it to be as unlimited as people say in that he hasn't built as many or as powerful things as Reed has or could.
Also if you think about it Forge has kinda of a stupid power if you think of it. Because the power to build anything would have to come from having knowledge on everything there is every principle of the universe. Since you can not be born with that knowledge and can only achieve it through learning it is kind of an impossible power. Also would you say Forge could invent something to take on Cosmic foes.

forge probably- hasn't shown it because he isn't popular and isn't arond in comics much.

Originally posted by stormfront13
forge probably- hasn't shown it because he isn't popular and isn't arond in comics much. Yes but it doesn't change the fact that his power is absurd because the concepts that would have to be behind it to make it real which is impossible for one person to have.
Plus it is probably a good thing that he isn't a big time character or he would loose some of the myth in him. Think about it if he became a much more used characters writers would have to tone down his power to make it useable in a wide range of scenarios. Such as his power really isn't to invent anything but to invent anything that he has knowledge on.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Reed has the skill, but Forge has the gift, there's a difference there... Sort of like with skill at moving fast.

Wolverine has skill, Spiderman has the gift.

Originally posted by newjak86
Yes but it doesn't change the fact that his power is absurd because the concepts that would have to be behind it to make it real which is impossible for one person to have. You mean like the strecthing ability? or the Rock hard skin, or super hot flames?

Unrealistic since they can't happen in the real world right?

Originally posted by newjak86
Plus it is probably a good thing that he isn't a big time character or he would loose some of the myth in him. Think about it if he became a much more used characters writers would have to tone down his power to make it useable in a wide range of scenarios. Such as his power really isn't to invent anything but to invent anything that he has knowledge on. Which isn't the case at this point in time.

Originally posted by newjak86
Yes but it doesn't change the fact that his power is absurd because the concepts that would have to be behind it to make it real which is impossible for one person to have.
Plus it is probably a good thing that he isn't a big time character or he would loose some of the myth in him. Think about it if he became a much more used characters writers would have to tone down his power to make it useable in a wide range of scenarios. Such as his power really isn't to invent anything but to invent anything that he has knowledge on.

just to let yoou know forge is a genious, not some middle-aged man who doesn't know anything. and actually, his power is to invent anything

Originally posted by Creshosk
Sort of like with skill at moving fast.

Wolverine has skill, Spiderman has the gift. took the words OUT of my mouth, skill helps us adapt, but talent is a gift, that with skill is what the best in the world are...

Like you can practice speaking, looking people in the eyes, projection, dressing up, etc.

Then there's a person who walks in with a bummy tshirt, and gets people to notice him...

How do you have a power to "invent anything"?

"Hi, I'm Forge. Due to a leap in evolution I can do what Dr. Doom and Reed can do anyway."

-AC

Originally posted by Creshosk
You mean like the strecthing ability? or the Rock hard skin, or super hot flames?

Unrealistic since they can't happen in the real world right?

Which isn't the case at this point in time. Not really as they gained this power from a cosmic source meaning that is outside of laws of reality. Now as a mutant evolutionary power I find it hard to believe it can happen as a real power.
Since that would make Froge the smartest being ever because he would have to know every principle on every subject. Since it is impossible for someone to be born with that knowledge then he would have to learn it and no man could ever learn everything in one lifetime.
I think a much more realistic use of his power is that he can invent things based on the knowledge he has a a much faster pace because his brain has mutated to organized and decipher info he has faster than normal.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
How do you have a power to "invent anything"?

"Hi, I'm Forge. Due to a leap in evolution I can do what Dr. Doom and Reed can do anyway."

-AC

how do you have the power to control the weather, read minds, create force-fields, control high intensity flames? it's a comic.

Stop replying to me, because you're obviously lacking the evolutionary step that allows you to read and understand my posts.

-AC

Originally posted by Creshosk
You mean like the strecthing ability? or the Rock hard skin, or super hot flames?

Unrealistic since they can't happen in the real world right?

Which isn't the case at this point in time. are we arguing the origin of comic characters, come on.

Lets get back to logic...

Originally posted by stormfront13
how do you have the power to control the weather, read minds, create force-fields, control high intensity flames? it's a comic. No it's cosmic

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Stop replying to me, because you're obviously lacking the evolutionary step that allows you to read and understand my posts.

-AC

why are you unwilling to have a conversation w/ me

Originally posted by newjak86
Not really as they gained this power from a cosmic source meaning that is outside of laws of reality. Oh yes because radiation really DOES grant powers. . . Like Spiderman's spiderbite. . or Hulks gamma radiation. . .


Originally posted by newjak86
Now as a mutant evolutionary power I find it hard to believe it can happen as a real power. Why? It is after all a comic book.

I find it hard to believe that a person can be exposed to radiation, have their DNA altered, and reult in super powers rather than cancer or some other illness.

Originally posted by newjak86
Since that would make Froge the smartest being ever because he would have to know every principle on every subject. No he wouldn't. That's his power. He doesn't NEED to understand how it works.

Originally posted by newjak86
Since it is impossible for someone to be born with that knowledge then he would have to learn it and no man could ever learn everything in one lifetime. Good thing he doesn't NEED to have the knowledge in order to use his mutant power right?

Originally posted by newjak86
I think a much more realistic use of his power is that he can invent things based on the knowledge he has a a much faster pace because his brain has mutated to organized and decipher info he has faster than normal. And here we have other people that should not be able to do the things they do through evolution either.

Wolverine is realistic, Jubilee is not.
Beast is realistic, Cyclops is not.
Classic Angel is okay, Iceman is not.

Youll note that the physical mutations are more realistic than say being able to project energy.

But hey, it's something we have to accept as part of the comic book, right?

I mean there is that whole radiation thing if you want realism.

Originally posted by newjak86
No it's cosmic cosmic logic

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
are we arguing the origin of comic characters, come on.

Lets get back to logic... Ah yes the origin argument that we've covered in depth together else where.

All of their origins don't fit in well with real world physics, do they?

Radiation, Born with it.

Genetic diseases and cancer for all of them.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Oh yes because radiation really DOES grant powers. . . Like Spiderman's spiderbite. . or Hulks gamma radiation. . .


Why? It is after all a comic book.

I find it hard to believe that a person can be exposed to radiation, have their DNA altered, and reult in super powers rather than cancer or some other illness.

No he wouldn't. That's his power. He doesn't NEED to understand how it works.

Good thing he doesn't NEED to have the knowledge in order to use his mutant power right?

And here we have other people that should not be able to do the things they do through evolution either.

Wolverine is realistic, Jubilee is not.
Beast is realistic, Cyclops is not.
Classic Angel is okay, Iceman is not.

Youll note that the physical mutations are more realistic than say being able to project energy.

But hey, it's something we have to accept as part of the comic book, right?

I mean there is that whole radiation thing if you want realism.

Its like wizardry vs sorcery.

Doom, reed, and bats are wizards.

Forge, is a sorceror, he doesn't NEED to understand it, its in his blood.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Ah yes the origin argument that we've covered in depth together else where.

All of their origins don't fit in well with real world physics, do they?

Radiation, Born with it.

Genetic diseases and cancer for all of them. thats what I'm saying, but you need logic in this situation, origions should be in the discussion forum, not debating, who cares?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Its like wizardry vs sorcery.

Doom, reed, and bats are wizards.

Forge, is a sorceror, he doesn't NEED to understand it, its in his blood. Yup yup. exactly.

Originally posted by stormfront13
why are you unwilling to have a conversation w/ me

Because due to the fact that you have the sensibilites and intelligence of the common garden slug, it makes it near impossible to have any kind of conversation with you.

Not only do you base your points on extreme, unrelenting bias toward who you want to win and who you love, but you seemingly have no knowledge of anything outside of those areas. You continually misread my posts and I have to explain things many times.

-AC

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
who cares? The hardcore FF fans appearently.

They refuse to accept it, though I wonder what there refusal to accpet it bears on the discussion itself.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Oh yes because radiation really DOES grant powers. . . Like Spiderman's spiderbite. . or Hulks gamma radiation. . .


Why? It is after all a comic book.

I find it hard to believe that a person can be exposed to radiation, have their DNA altered, and reult in super powers rather than cancer or some other illness.

No he wouldn't. That's his power. He doesn't NEED to understand how it works.

Good thing he doesn't NEED to have the knowledge in order to use his mutant power right?

And here we have other people that should not be able to do the things they do through evolution either.

Wolverine is realistic, Jubilee is not.
Beast is realistic, Cyclops is not.
Classic Angel is okay, Iceman is not.

Youll note that the physical mutations are more realistic than say being able to project energy.

But hey, it's something we have to accept as part of the comic book, right?

I mean there is that whole radiation thing if you want realism. Did I sat radiation can do that no. I said Cosmic inlfuences can. Plus radiation has been known to trigger mutations though I don't believe it would ever result in a Hulk or Spiderman.
Simply sating it is his power doesn't change the concept behind it needed to make it a real power that evoltution even in a comic book could do.
Cyclops optic beams are from his eyes being able to use sunlight and focus it into blast. Possiblt improbable but still a cocept that can be believed. Energy projection isn't as out there as one would think since our bodies do hold very different and sometimes unstabble substances in it.
And for Forge's power to be remotely possible he would have to have been born with knowledge on every subject.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Because due to the fact that you have the sensibilites and intelligence of the common garden slug, it makes it near impossible to have any kind of conversation with you.

Not only do you base your points on extreme, unrelenting bias toward who you want to win and who you love, but you seemingly have no knowledge of anything outside of those areas. You continually misread my posts and I have to explain things many times.

-AC

missread what posts? i hardly reply 2 u because you don't talk to people, you insult people.

Originally posted by stormfront13
missread what posts? i hardly reply 2 u because you don't talk to people, you insult people.
IF ONLY SOMEONE COULD TAME HER!

For it to be an insult, I have to intend it as one. I can't help if you're easily offended or insulted.

Either way, I posted something about Forge and you completely didn't get what I meant. No offence meant, but you are genuinely a stupid comics "fan". Because you're not a comics fan at all, you're an X-Fan. You're commenting on F4 Vs X-Men when you've admitted before to barely even knowing who they were.

You can't debate with no knowledge.

-AC

Originally posted by Creshosk
The hardcore FF fans appearently.

They refuse to accept it, though I wonder what there refusal to accpet it bears on the discussion itself.

I wonder, because I'm a bigger ff fan, than the xmen...

Originally posted by Spelljammer
IF ONLY SOMEONE COULD TAME HER!

Its a he.

Originally posted by newjak86
Did I sat radiation can do that no. I said Cosmic inlfuences can. Plus radiation has been known to trigger mutations though I don't believe it would ever result in a Hulk or Spiderman. Yeah, but their origins are more logical right? Since they weren't "born with it" right?

Originally posted by newjak86
Simply sating it is his power doesn't change the concept behind it needed to make it a real power that evoltution even in a comic book could do. No you don't.

How do people evolve to control ICE, or the WEATHER, or project energy from there eyes, or even turning back and forth from metal, or combusting moecules on a molecular level?

These aren't natural paths that a human can acheive in the real world, because what do they stem from in the real world?

Originally posted by newjak86
Cyclops optic beams are from his eyes being able to use sunlight and focus it into blast. And how is that a natural evolution chain, in the real world? What creature can utilize energy from the sun to release it as energy from the eyes?

Originally posted by newjak86
Possiblt improbable but still a cocept that can be believed. Why? What creature can do this?

Originally posted by newjak86
Energy projection isn't as out there as one would think since our bodies do hold very different and sometimes unstabble substances in it. Like the ability to control weather? Or be able to manipulate kinetic energy?

Originally posted by newjak86
And for Forge's power to be remotely possible he would have to have been born with knowledge on every subject. No he wouldn't. HE wouldn't even have to really know why certain things go in certain places. He is just told by his power to put this here and this there.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master


I wonder, because I'm a bigger ff fan, than the xmen... I'm trying not to insult anybody. But they are exhibitng traits that are denounced in certain fans of other characters . . .

Ummm are people trying to compare "comics" to "real life"?

Dont do it. It would just hurt the brain.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Ummm are people trying to compare "comics" to "real life"?

Dont do it. It would just hurt the brain. No, they're trying to compare certain characters to real life, and just accept others.

I'm saying, you compare one you gotta be fair and compare them all.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Its a he.

That's debatable in itself.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
For it to be an insult, I have to intend it as one. I can't help if you're easily offended or insulted.

Either way, I posted something about Forge and you completely didn't get what I meant. No offence meant, but you are genuinely a stupid comics "fan". Because you're not a comics fan at all, you're an X-Fan. You're commenting on F4 Vs X-Men when you've admitted before to barely even knowing who they were.

You can't debate with no knowledge.

-AC

yes, don't deny it because you insult many people on this forum. not just me. a ton of people here want you banned, and there are actually people that I talk to from other forums that won't join here because of you. no joke

either way, can you post that comment again, because I recall you only saying that I shouldn't respond to you.

Originally posted by newjak86
Did I sat radiation can do that no. I said Cosmic inlfuences can. Plus radiation has been known to trigger mutations though I don't believe it would ever result in a Hulk or Spiderman.
Simply sating it is his power doesn't change the concept behind it needed to make it a real power that evoltution even in a comic book could do.
Cyclops optic beams are from his eyes being able to use sunlight and focus it into blast. Possiblt improbable but still a cocept that can be believed. Energy projection isn't as out there as one would think since our bodies do hold very different and sometimes unstabble substances in it.
And for Forge's power to be remotely possible he would have to have been born with knowledge on every subject.

I though Cyclops power are extra dimensional ?

Any way Light and other forms of Radiation, have no mass, so using them to move objects requires vast amounts of Energy. E.G. E = Mc2.Its much easier to fire and object like a bullet.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Its a he.
...
I told you bitches I needed prep time..

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
That's debatable in itself. ah, someone likes disagreeing with me...

Originally posted by stormfront13
yes, don't deny it because you insult many people on this forum. not just me. a ton of people here want you banned, and there are actually people that I talk to from other forums that won't join here because of you. no joke

Oh, poor them. I'm sorry I'm such an intimidating beast then. Haha, their worry is not my problem.

If I insulted people half as bad as people claim, I'd be banned. I'm friends with a couple of mods so I know I get reported all the time by people who can't handle the way I debate and can't handle losing. I can't be banned because people try too hard to come at me. You get insulted easily? Sorry, not my problem. If you don't want me to call you an idiot, don't be one.

Originally posted by stormfront13
either way, can you post that comment again, because I recall you only saying that I shouldn't respond to you.

Go back and read it.

-AC

Originally posted by Creshosk
I'm trying not to insult anybody. But they are exhibitng traits that are denounced in certain fans of other characters . . .

indeed...

Originally posted by Creshosk
Yeah, but their origins are more logical right? Since they weren't "born with it" right?

No you don't.

How do people evolve to control ICE, or the WEATHER, or project energy from there eyes, or even turning back and forth from metal, or combusting moecules on a molecular level?

These aren't natural paths that a human can acheive in the real world, because what do they stem from in the real world?

And how is that a natural evolution chain, in the real world? What creature can utilize energy from the sun to release it as energy from the eyes?

Why? What creature can do this?

Like the ability to control weather? Or be able to manipulate kinetic energy?

No he wouldn't. HE wouldn't even have to really know why certain things go in certain places. He is just told by his power to put this here and this there. Since it is done by an influence outside the laws of science yes their powersd make more sense. Evolution is a scienific progress and therefore anything resulting from it must also be based in it's principles.
Mystic and cosmic influences are perfectly useable as ways of explaining the unexplainable becuase they are things outside of what we know and there fore can not be limited in what they do.
They may not be natural steps we can take but yet taken enough time can be explained by physical changes and things that are bodies have changed that allow us to do so. Such as Icem,an's body may have temprature control glands that allow him to make air around cool down faster.
Cyclops I already explained.
Colossus metal is a element in our body so the idea that a person simply soldifies it can be explained.
To invent something though you must know how certain principles work with eachother witout any knowledge I can not build a car unless I know everything about it. Forge's power would also have to have him know everything possible from birth and that is impossible.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
How do you have a power to "invent anything"?

"Hi, I'm Forge. Due to a leap in evolution I can do what Dr. Doom and Reed can do anyway."

-AC

I don't get how many meanings this can...but whatever. it's a comic, does there really need to be a reason he can do what he does? he does what red and doom do, but better. they can invent and build things, but that's what forges power is, he does it better than they can

Originally posted by newjak86
Since it is done by an influence outside the laws of science yes their powersd make more sense. Evolution is a scienific progress and therefore anything resulting from it must also be based in it's principles.
Mystic and cosmic influences are perfectly useable as ways of explaining the unexplainable becuase they are things outside of what we know and there fore can not be limited in what they do.
They may not be natural steps we can take but yet taken enough time can be explained by physical changes and things that are bodies have changed that allow us to do so. Such as Icem,an's body may have temprature control glands that allow him to make air around cool down faster.
Cyclops I already explained.
Colossus metal is a element in our body so the idea that a person simply soldifies it can be explained.
To invent something though you must know how certain principles work with eachother witout any knowledge I can not build a car unless I know everything about it. Forge's power would also have to have him know everything possible from birth and that is impossible.
\
Meh, its a gift with forge, and why is this in question anyway?

Originally posted by newjak86
Since it is done by an influence outside the laws of science yes their powersd make more sense. Evolution is a scienific progress and therefore anything resulting from it must also be based in it's principles.
Mystic and cosmic influences are perfectly useable as ways of explaining the unexplainable becuase they are things outside of what we know and there fore can not be limited in what they do.
They may not be natural steps we can take but yet taken enough time can be explained by physical changes and things that are bodies have changed that allow us to do so. Such as Icem,an's body may have temprature control glands that allow him to make air around cool down faster.
Cyclops I already explained.
Colossus metal is a element in our body so the idea that a person simply soldifies it can be explained.
To invent something though you must know how certain principles work with eachother witout any knowledge I can not build a car unless I know everything about it. Forge's power would also have to have him know everything possible from birth and that is impossible.

Trust me mate none of those things are going to Naturaly evolve. By Introducing Nano tech and other technologies into equation you may have diffent results.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
\
Meh, its a gift with forge, and why is this in question anyway? Still one based on the idea of evoltuion.
It started because Storm mentioned something about Forge being able to build anything then I said something about him where I sadi his power really doesn't make much sense.

Originally posted by stormfront13
I don't get how many meanings this can...but whatever. it's a comic, does there really need to be a reason he can do what he does? he does what red and doom do, but better. they can invent and build things, but that's what forges power is, he does it better than they can

You don't "get" much, that's what I'm talking about.

As for doing it better, he doesn't though does he? That's just you saying he does.

I've got no problem with it, just think it's a very random and stupid thing to say. "Power to invent things".

-AC

Originally posted by newjak86
Since it is done by an influence outside the laws of science yes their powersd make more sense.So it's magic that caused the FF's DNA to be altered to allow these powers. . .

And Magic is a much more logical explination than science. . .

Originally posted by newjak86
Evolution is a scienific progress and therefore anything resulting from it must also be based in it's principles. Like cyclops's power? What scientific principal does it agree with that it is not grossly violating?

Look at the third law of motion.

Cyclops shouldn't be able to be beheaded or knocked out by any force less than the power of his beams. His neck muscles would have to be fricken MASSIVE in order to withstand the kick. . . but then his brain would also have to withstand it as well. . .

Originally posted by newjak86
Mystic and cosmic influences are perfectly useable as ways of explaining the unexplainable becuase they are things outside of what we know and there fore can not be limited in what they do.

Magic is more logically acceptable than "they were born with it."

Originally posted by newjak86
They may not be natural steps we can take but yet taken enough time can be explained by physical changes and things that are bodies have changed that allow us to do so. So what explains Cyclops being able to utilize the solar energy into a form of energy that has enough mass to concussivley peirce through metal, but has no heat, and doesn't kill him when he uses it?

Originally posted by newjak86
Such as Icem,an's body may have temprature control glands that allow him to make air around cool down faster.And how do "temperature control glands" function outside the body much less at all?

Originally posted by newjak86
Cyclops I already explained. Not very well.

Originally posted by newjak86
Colossus metal is a element in our body so the idea that a person simply soldifies it can be explained. And then desolidifies it?

Where does it go when he's in human form? And what metal exists in our body that can stand up to the thing's strength or even Juggernauts?

Originally posted by newjak86
To invent something though you must know how certain principles work with eachother witout any knowledge I can not build a car unless I know everything about it. Forge's power would also have to have him know everything possible from birth and that is impossible. No, this is your speculative belief as to how his power works.

IT's not proven to function like that, it seems like more of assembly instructions that pop up when he needs them.

You don't need to know all the pricipals behind a car or a computer to put either togethrer from the parts available. Not, if you follow the instructions.

Originally posted by yahman
Trust me mate none of those things are going to Naturaly evolve. By Introducing Nano tech and other technologies into equation you may have diffent results. Trust me I don't like the idea of what they have become and no way could anything justify the power boost they got. Still in the begining some of them could be explained and justified just not Forge's power.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You don't "get" much, that's what I'm talking about.

As for doing it better, he doesn't though does he? That's just you saying he does.

I've got no problem with it, just think it's a very random and stupid thing to say. "Power to invent things".

-AC

only according to yoiu I don't get much. yes he does, his power is to invent things. you saying that is just not having a good understanding of his character. and it is a stupid power, at least we agree there.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
ah, someone likes disagreeing with me...

Not exactly...was just bringing AC's physiology into question.

Originally posted by newjak86
Trust me I don't like the idea of what they have become and no way could anything justify the power boost they got. Still in the begining some of them could be explained and justified just not Forge's power.

Apart from Beat, Forge, Toad and Angel, all the other powers are far beyond the realms of genetics. External elements have to be brought in before you get a realistic explanation.

Originally posted by Creshosk
So it's magic that caused the FF's DNA to be altered to allow these powers. . .

And Magic is a much more logical explination than science. . .

Like cyclops's power? What scientific principal does it agree with that it is not grossly violating?

Look at the third law of motion.

Cyclops shouldn't be able to be beheaded or knocked out by any force less than the power of his beams. His neck muscles would have to be fricken MASSIVE in order to withstand the kick. . . but then his brain would also have to withstand it as well. . .



Magic is more logically acceptable than "they were born with it."

So what explains Cyclops being able to utilize the solar energy into a form of energy that has enough mass to concussivley peirce through metal, but has no heat, and doesn't kill him when he uses it?

And how do "temperature control glands" function outside the body much less at all?

Not very well.

And then desolidifies it?

Where does it go when he's in human form? And what metal exists in our body that can stand up to the thing's strength or even Juggernauts?

No, this is your speculative belief as to how his power works.

IT's not proven to function like that, it seems like more of assembly instructions that pop up when he needs them.

You don't need to know all the pricipals behind a car or a computer to put either togethrer from the parts available. Not, if you follow the instructions. Yes magic and cosmic sources are much more accpetable than they were born with it.
I was giving possiblities as to how their powers could function is it perfect no but then again they are still somewhat plausable and given enough time can be explained much better by people much smarter than I good sir. Even they are like assembly intructions then how does get them. He still would have to have some understanding of concepts work with each other.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Not exactly...was just bringing AC's physiology into question. there was a thread on fake pics on the off topic thread, someone thought ALL of them were fake...

By "inventing feat" the title would belong to Reed or Doom. Maybe even Iron Man.

However Forge should be the No.1 inventor in Marvel. Why hes not? Because hes not a main character like the others imo. Reed, Doom, and Starks knowledge is learned while Forges comes naturally. Technically he should be the best inventor in the MU. Too bad he isnt. Forge doesnt get enough respect from Marvel.

Originally posted by newjak86
Yes magic and cosmic sources are much more accpetable than they were born with it. Why?

Originally posted by newjak86
I was giving possiblities as to how their powers could function is it perfect no but then again they are still somewhat plausable and given enough time can be explained much better by people much smarter than I good sir. Which means they might function in a way neither of us truly understands?

Then why are they unacceptable?

Originally posted by newjak86
Even they are like assembly intructions then how does get them. He still would have to have some understanding of concepts work with each other. Nope, not at all.

I can put a car together without ever fulyl understanding how it works.

But if I follow the directions I can make a functional one.

Or a rocket, or nuclear warhead, or whatever.

Originally posted by jrodslam
By "inventing feat" the title would belong to Reed or Doom. Maybe even Iron Man.

However Forge should be the No.1 inventor in Marvel. Why hes not? Because hes not a main character like the others imo. Reed, Doom, and Starks knowledge is learned while Forges comes naturally. Technically he should be the best inventor in the MU. Too bad he isnt. Forge doesnt get enough respect from Marvel.

these are forges powers

intuitive mechanical vision automatically interprets the functions and operations of any machine or technological device, a skill that combined with his natural intelligence allows him to conceive, design and build futuristic inventions, operate, modify and disassemble existing technology or create countermeasures for it, fitted with a cybernetic leg and a hand equipped with a computer interface link and plasma blasters

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
there was a thread on fake pics on the off topic thread, someone thought ALL of them were fake...

Victor doesn't actually believe I'm a woman, he knows me personally. He just likes to be a shit .

-AC

Originally posted by Creshosk
Why?

Which means they might function in a way neither of us truly understands?

Then why are they unacceptable?

Nope, not at all.

I can put a car together without ever fulyl understanding how it works.

But if I follow the directions I can make a functional one.

Or a rocket, or nuclear warhead, or whatever. Because they are based on principles outside of nature. As soon as they said that the X-Men were the next step in human evoltuion they became part of the laws of nature.
You could try to put a car together you mean and as you said you would have to have directions to put it together at all. Plus if you didn't know how a car works you could easily mess up and not know how to fix it.
Same with anything else you must have knowledge on the subject to make it and since someone can not be born with all the knoweldge of everything then Forge's power as is is impossible.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Victor doesn't actually believe I'm a woman, he knows me personally. He just likes to be a shit .

-AC Indeed.

I figured you were best friends...

We are, best buddies.

-AC