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Hey ever wonder if perhaps the Sith had their own lightsaber styles that were unlike the Jedi styles? Yes, I already know about Hord.

Lord Hoth had his own style

I believe Maul's was a variation of form 7, though I don't have dantheman around anymore to confirm.

yes Maul's was a variation of form VII

oh and sorry about the double post but the sith also used the form of Dun Moch which was specific to them. It was not specifically a lightsaber combat, but it was used to provoke an opponent into attack and make them loose their temper and become unfocused, Vader uses this in ESB and RotJ.

Dooku also used it against Anakin, but it seems to me like Dun Moch does more damage than good. Luke became really powerful when he fell for a minute.

ALso, does anyone have a comprehensive list of which Jedi uses which forms? Official as possible please.

Well, let's see:

Shii-Cho: Kit Fisto and either Adi Gaia or Allie Strass whats herface, I believe.

Makashi: Dooku

Soresu: Luminara, Obi-Wan, Bariss

Ataru: Obi-Wan, Qui Gon, Yoda, possibly Anakin

Shien: Anakin, Luke

Niman: Every jedi on Geonosis who died

Juyo/Vaapad: Mace, Sora, Depa

Thanks.

No problem. As for Sidious, he is held to be either a varient of Ataru or possibly some corrupt form of Niman.

I had heard a lot of speculation that he had mastered Niman to the highest degree of anyone alive at that time. If you think about it, spending five hundred years on Niman would make you able to do just about anything. Sidious didn't have quite that long to master it, but you get my drift.

Sidious - in my opinion - seemed to have a style that worked better against multiple opponents. He kept up with Mace and Yoda, but did not own them as easily and as swiftly (or at all for that matter) as he did with the other Jedi. So. Either this is based on how much more skilled Yoda and Mace are than the other Jedi Masters - or Sidious's style was better against multiple opponents.

Not to mention that he used several flips and acrobatic moves. Perhaps it is a combination of two or more styles? Odd how Nick Gillard stated that Sidious was supposed to possess more saber ability than anyone we've seen.

I've seen quotes where Gillard mentions that "Sidious will do things with a blade that we've never seen done before." And "You cannot beat Sidious as he always turns a weakness into an advantage."

I wish they focused more on his Force powers than saber skills - as they didn't do a good job of either in Revenge of the Sith. It's hinted that he's powerful with them - but I dunno. ROTS Sidious duels just was...blah...

The flips can be accounted for if he had a high mastery of Niman.

I'm sure different people had different methods.

Exar Kun invented Sokan, or so I've read, sub-form of Soresu.

Jar'Kai, the method of using two lightsabers, was created by a Jedi and another Jedi who later went Sith.

Maul used Juyo and was pretty damned good at it, Dooku was a master of Makashi, and Sidious practiced Niman. Vader used Djem So.

I read those same things, DS... But they didn't stack up in the movie, which was kinda piss poor. I think NG, a spotlight hog, was living it up and feeding the hype before the movie came out, too.

Now, Sidious' lightsaber style is actually pretty simple. Yes, he did do a couple of flips and spins, certainly. He might have Ataru in it. My thinking is, it's either Niman and it's Niman that doesn't suck because Sidious is so strong in the Force, or it's actually Shii-Cho with Ataru mixed in. that's what I'm getting from the movie battles.

I'd go with a mastered version of Niman.

Originally posted by Captain REX
I'm sure different people had different methods.

Exar Kun invented Sokan, or so I've read, sub-form of Soresu.

Jar'Kai, the method of using two lightsabers, was created by a Jedi and another Jedi who later went Sith.

Maul used Juyo and was pretty damned good at it, Dooku was a master of Makashi, and Sidious practiced Niman. Vader used Djem So.

I have heard that Exar used Makashi.

If a subform of Soresu enables you to kill a lightsaber grandmaster within a few seconds, it's pretty damn good.

After I saw ROTS I came out thinking that Sidious's lightsaber form was very snake like... quick strikes and stabs... and he used his terrain to an extent... that made me think Sokan initially. After pondering it however I think Niman is correct, for two reasons. Firstly, he seems to change style when he fights, especially when he faced Mace Windu. Secondly, it makes more sense to me for Palpatine to be adept at a number of forms instead of focusing specifically on one.

Just my two cents.

Originally posted by Illustrious
If a subform of Soresu enables you to kill a lightsaber grandmaster within a few seconds, it's pretty damn good.

I think that's just Exar Kun kicking ass, not his form.

Does Exar Kun pull of anything that is very Dooku-like, Sorgo? I wouldn't know.

I agree, ObiWan1982.

Originally posted by Captain REX
I'd go with a mastered version of Niman.

The problem with mastering Niman is that it literally means you mastered every fighting style save for Juyo and Makashi. If this was the case, Sidious should have been the best damn duellist in the series, over a hundred years old, and pretty much shamed himself by being bested at all. No, I think NG made some fekked up Form XX and it never found its way into any kind of material. After all, the seven forms were made just after AOTC. They haven't been upgraded since.

Sidious shouldn't even have had a lightsabre form.

Originally posted by Dimmimar
Sidious shouldn't even have had a lightsabre form.

Hey is lightsabre a european thing? I am just curious since we americans spell it lightsaber.

It's the British spelling. I spell "saber" as sabre.

Sabre, calibre, theatre... colour... I used to type and write like that, but I don't anymore. Surprised you didn't know that. I thought it was common knowledge.

Just wondering Janus, but where are you from, the Location below your avatar wasn't exactly forthcoming.

Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. Not originally, but yes. I am a beach bum.

Ah, thank you.

Of course.

Janus, are you on invisible mode. Just wondering because I never see your name on the forum list at the top of the page...

I am. Stealth Janus!

Just a precaution... I used to get six to eight PMs when I'd first log on, and when I first get on I deal with PMs, then check my sig gallery, then other random out of SW Versus and Eu threads I replied on, and then I concentrate on viewing each active thread.

ALl that while at work... just got tired of people PMing me, not because I hate answering questions or anything... just stretched too thin.

Why do people PM you so much though?

You open your mouth as much as I do on this forum, and people think you know something.

That and I'm pretty quick to respond.

I PM him a fair bit. Not every time though.

I could spam some poor newbie with seven Ootenie! PMs.

lol... And get ignored, likely.

Ah well, twas a good idea at the time.

Whats the point of spamming newbies?

They are either going to like the attention and stay. Or think this forum sucks and leave...

Either way the rest of us are screwed.

Originally posted by Dimmimar
Sidious shouldn't even have had a lightsabre form.

My thinking is that he shouldn't have used a blade at all. See, to me, ROTS Sidious and AOTC and ROTS Yoda are just weird. You have to have Yoda battle Count Dooku - actually Mace would've been a good choice as well.

When I saw Return of The Jedi - the Emperor struck me as the pure embodiment of evil. He wasn't as overzealous and psychotic as he was in Revenge of the Sith. TMP and AOTC Sidious do the Emperor justice in Return of the Jedi.

In ROTJ, we see Palpatine not use a blade - but is more than capable of doing his fair share of ass-kicking (or shocking, as the case may be). I got the impression that he simply didn't need a blade to kill people.

To me, Yoda and Palpatine should've been the VERY best in saber ability - to keep up with the fact that they're both the most powerful Jedi and Sith in the trilogies - or they simply shouldn't have used them at all.

That's just me, though.

Originally posted by Captain REX
I think that's just Exar Kun kicking ass, not his form.

Does Exar Kun pull of anything that is very Dooku-like, Sorgo? I wouldn't know.

I agree, ObiWan1982.


Either would I. I haven't really seen Kun in person nor have ever seen him on the streets. And i could imagine the whole double-bladed Lightsaber ideal could alter the form just a wee bit.


Although i don't know whether he used it or not, it is just rumor and/or speculation.

I have heard that Exar was a makashi master as well, but that is just a rumor and i don't know if it is true or not.

I think his form is unique, honestly. Look at Darkstar's sig, how he holds his two blades... who else fights like that? And the doublebladed saber later on? It's a one handed monstrosity... it's nothing like Maul's saber.

okey so now im here again...long time since i posted in this forum last but i would really want to ask someone of a favour...
i am not very familiar with these lightsaber forms but i know a little info of the shi-shu i learned in KOTOR2 it says good to fall back on but i dunno so if someone could tell me or link to a page that gives the info about all the lightsaber forms i would be really happy....

http://swg.stratics.com/content/gameplay/professions/jedi/lightsaber_combat.php

Originally posted by Rand al'Thor
Hey ever wonder if perhaps the Sith had their own lightsaber styles that were unlike the Jedi styles? Yes, I already know about Hord.

No...they don't have their own styles and there is a simple reason for that. Before Sadow the Sith had never seen a lightsaber at all so they didn't use any lightsaber form. After Sadow all Sith were former Jedi (Nadd, Kun, Ulic, Revan, Malak...and so on) or they were trained by former Jedi (or used styles that rouge Jedi teached at a certain time).

So basically all Sith were trained in Jedi lightsaber styles in KotoR times as well as after the Ruusan reformation. It is possible that some people used their own forms but they developed them from the actual Jedi forms (so Tulak might have used his own form but it was most likely based on Makashi).

Palpatine uses a Sith Niman I believe. He couldn't have used a variation of Ataru. His defenses against Yoda were to good.

why couldn't Sidious have used Ataru? sure his defences were good, but Yoda's defences were good as well. However, I do not think that he used Ataru (I know, weird thing to say after I just finished saying he could have, but I was just pointing out that he could have), the reason I think this is because of his fight with Mace, he was not flipping around while fighting him, personally I think his form was a mix between, Ataru and Juyo. The reason I think he had some Juyo is because of the way he held his lightsaber just before he attacked (right next to and close to his face) it was the same way Mace held his lightsaber, also in the Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith Game, when you play versus mode and just press the defend buttom, it shows the standard mode of defence for each form (Anakin, or Shien, behind his back; Obi-Wan or Soresu, difectly in front of him; Dooku of Makashi, out to the side etc.) However for Mace it was the same way that Sidious held his lightsaber in the movie, right next to and close to his face, just something to ponder.

This also gives us a clue to Revan's form, he held his lightsaber close to his face as well, meaning he could have used Juyo. Kreia also says that this is one of the best forms that there is, possibly because Revan uses it?

I noticed that too, and it's possible, depending on just how much NG put into the game. Revan does use this same stance, but he uses it before anyone else, meaning it could be anything, or something else entirely new and different. We don't know.

And Sidious -did- do some flipping and evading at one point, but he didn't overkill it.

well Juyo was around in Revan's time, probably some was added since that time (eg. Vaapad) but the basics were there. And I don't know how much input NG had, but my explaination does make sense so I think that it is atleast plausable. Oh and about Sidious bouncing around during the Mace fight, that is why I said a mix of Ataru and Juyo. He combined both forms

Or he could have focused his Niman training in that area. I still think things point towards Sidious being a Niman user.

Originally posted by Lord Darkstar
well Juyo was around in Revan's time, probably some was added since that time (eg. Vaapad) but the basics were there. And I don't know how much input NG had, but my explaination does make sense so I think that it is atleast plausable. Oh and about Sidious bouncing around during the Mace fight, that is why I said a mix of Ataru and Juyo. He combined both forms

Erm...Juyo features Ataru movements like jumping around. Have a look at Darth Maul in TPM. So there is no need for Sidious to combine the forms. And Sidious is most like an Juyo use - Maul is using that form and it was Sidious who trained him. And it seems to fit his character and position the most since it's the most aggressive of all styles.

oh yeah I forgot about that, you make a good point Nai

Very good point.

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
No...they don't have their own styles and there is a simple reason for that. Before Sadow the Sith had never seen a lightsaber at all so they didn't use any lightsaber form. After Sadow all Sith were former Jedi (Nadd, Kun, Ulic, Revan, Malak...and so on) or they were trained by former Jedi (or used styles that rouge Jedi teached at a certain time).

So basically all Sith were trained in Jedi lightsaber styles in KotoR times as well as after the Ruusan reformation. It is possible that some people used their own forms but they developed them from the actual Jedi forms (so Tulak might have used his own form but it was most likely based on Makashi).

Ack! I'm idiot I forgot all about this!

I think the Sith had their own variations on exsisting jedi forms.

^ read above posts, you will find that we already said that. Before you make a response to a thread, please take the time to re-read what other people have said so that we do not have dozens of answers that are similar.

Thanks in advance

Originally posted by Deus Ex
I think his form is unique, honestly. Look at Darkstar's sig, how he holds his two blades... who else fights like that? And the doublebladed saber later on? It's a one handed monstrosity... it's nothing like Maul's saber.

Anyone using two lightsabers uses Jar'Kai, which is usually just the two-handed version of whatever Kun or Skywalker or whoever is a regular practitioner of. Jar'Kai has no real guidelines, it's somewhat baffling, though it is usually placed as a sub-form of Niman.

Exar Kun just doesn't strike me as using Makashi.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Anyone using two lightsabers uses Jar'Kai, which is usually just the two-handed version of whatever Kun or Skywalker or whoever is a regular practitioner of. Jar'Kai has no real guidelines, it's somewhat baffling, though it is usually placed as a sub-form of Niman.

Exar Kun just doesn't strike me as using Makashi.


Anyone using two lightsaber uses Jar'Kai!? Pure absurdity!


It's impossible! That's like everyone with a single using Ataru. You don't see everyone flipping around like crazy, do you?



It is possible Kun may have used Makashi. I don't see someone as powerful as Kun using a sub form!

Well, if Jar'Kai is the style of using two sabers at once....

I dunno, I think that everyone would wind up with their own personal saber style; they may gave learned one of the forms but chances are they would have added their own touches to it so that while it may be the same basic form, it would be different than anyone else who learned that form.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Anyone using two lightsaber uses Jar'Kai!? Pure absurdity!


It's impossible! That's like everyone with a single using Ataru. You don't see everyone flipping around like crazy, do you?



It is possible Kun may have used Makashi. I don't see someone as powerful as Kun using a sub form!

If you think about it, every form is a subform of Form 1, And Djem So is what Vader uses and it's subform, and you hold him in great regard so, that's contradictary to everything.

Vader tends to use the sub-form of Djem So. *shrug*

According to me, I consider Jar'Kai flexible to whatever they said about it being a subform of Niman. Having everything be put into Jar'Kai is silly, and it also rules out Juyo/Vaapad/Trispzest.

Originally posted by ResubianNushi
If you think about it, every form is a subform of Form 1, And Djem So is what Vader uses and it's subform, and you hold him in great regard so, that's contradictary to everything.

I hold Vader in great regard? Says who?






Anything is a substitute for something. Even life.... We are a substitute of our parents.

Anyone can go back far enough but when it comes down to it, there is Seven Lightsaber combat forms. Jar'Kai happens to not be in that seven. It is a sub form.

Yup! Couldn't have said it five times myself.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Yup! Couldn't have said it five times myself.





I hold the same position as you, being the fact i couldn't step a few paces and back and state what is extremely obvious.

Hurray!

Originally posted by Captain REX
Hurray!


Hmm.... I have to have ESP or something....

I do.

I would use Ataru, it involves jumping too much.

So, if we were to put the all forms into best dueling styles, from best to work, how would it go? I think:

Makashi
Juyo/Vaapad
Ataru
Soresu
Shien
Shii-Cho
Niman

Really depends... Now Makashi is obviously the best considering everything but why is Juyo better then lets say Soresu?

Not getting hit is going to be damn effective in a fight against a great oponent. It depends on a lot of things so we can't really say which style is better then any else for one particulair thing. Except for Makashi that was developed for dueling.

Yeah, but Juyo/Vaapad is considered to be the most unexpected form of all seven. I say Soresu would be weak to each because:

Makashi - The precision can overcome the defense.
Juyo - Extremely unexpected
Ataru - Can be overcome due to sheer strength and speed

It's better than the rest because:

Shien - Only has strength, but not the speed or enhancements of Ataru
Shii-Cho - Too basic and easy to overcome
Niman - Not built for combat at all

Can...

A great fighter with Soresu will be undefeatable, if you can anticipate moves greater then almost anybody its going to be really hard to get killed when using a form like that. Nobody is going to succeed unless of course you are even better. Fact of the matter is, its hard to guess who will win based on forms alone. Soresu is an excellent form for a patient dueller. Its going to be hard to win, but its going to be even harder to lose.

If someone with Battle Precog used Soresu, they would be invincible in saber combat.

Why is Niman considered so horrible? It's the best of the previous five forms blended, I'm confused.

No, Niman wasn't the best of the forms combined, it was the basics of each. Niman was also a horrible blend, when compared to Juyo. Niman was created for people who: A. Wanted to practice Force more than saber or B. Wanted to focus on diplomacy and had no need for martial skills.

This is the order of the "seven" in which I am good in and think are the best in the SW universe. . .

1. Makashi

2. Ataru

3. Vaapad/Juyo

4. Soresu

5. Shien/Djem-So

6. Shie-Cho

7. Niman

Originally posted by Se7in
No, Niman wasn't the best of the forms combined, it was the basics of each. Niman was also a horrible blend, when compared to Juyo. Niman was created for people who: A. Wanted to practice Force more than saber or B. Wanted to focus on diplomacy and had no need for martial skills.

Your avataree practices Niman. That struck me as ironic. Sorry for the interruption.

Why do you rate Ataru above Juyo/Vaapad? I'm just wondering. But if I were to think about battle, as in war, I think the best form(s) would be:

Soresu
Juyo/Vaapad
Ataru
Shien
Shii-Cho
Makashi
Niman

Originally posted by Se7in
Why do you rate Ataru above Juyo/Vaapad? I'm just wondering. But if I were to think about battle, as in war, I think the best form(s) would be:

Soresu
Juyo/Vaapad
Ataru
Shien
Shii-Cho
Makashi
Niman

Vaapad/Juyo is extremely overrated in my opinion. . .everybody makes to much of a big deal of the style. Then there are the idiots who think anyone who uses Vaapad owns dark siders or this character sucks cause he couldn't learn "Vaapad". . .

Which is a foolish notion.

Originally posted by General Makashi
Vaapad/Juyo is extremely overrated in my opinion. . .everybody makes to much of a big deal of the style. Then there are the idiots who think anyone who uses Vaapad owns dark siders or this character sucks cause he couldn't learn "Vaapad". . .

Amen. . .Can I get a amen?

Erm, well, I get the impression that your biased towards Makashi. . . (end sarcasm)

It does get terribly annoying when people go on rants about how Vaapad annihilates darksiders, reflects Dark Side attacks, and allows the user to 'see into the Dark Side'.

amen

but really I think that the best ones for war (by this I mean the Clone Wars, if it were a jedi vs sith conflict then it would be different) would be this:

CLONE WARS
Soresu
Shien-Do
Juyo/Vaapad
Ataru
Shii-Cho
Makashi
Niman

JEDI VS SITH
Makashi
Juyo/Vaapad
Shien-Do
Soresu
Ataru
Shii-Cho
Niman

That's my list for the styles

darn it my 'amen' was to General Makashi, not you Faunus

Personally, I would go with this line up:

Clone Wars-

1) Shien/Djem So
2) Soresu
3) Juyo/Vaapad
4) Ataru
5) Shii-Cho
6) Makashi
7) Niman

Note the emphasis on combat readiness and NOT on saber to saber combat. It rarely happened, so it doesn't need to be devoted to in training. However, the Jedi versus Sith eras of before would be more like this:

1) Makashi
2) Juyo/Vaapad
3) Ataru
4) Shii-Cho
5) Shien/Djem So
6) Soresu
7) Niman

Now, here the emphasis is on duelling and saber to saber combat. Makashi would make a world of difference in combat, and Juyo is another strong variant. Ataru, I believe, yields more promise than Shien because a strong Force user can make the most of it. Shien obviously isn't very different based on Force user talent. Ataru, however, is. (See Yoda as opposed to Qui-Gon Jinn). Next, I labeled Shii-Cho. Yes, Shi-Cho. Why? Well, it's sword combat. Pure and simple. It's the very basics, and if one is exceptionally good with the basics, you will in turn be a very good swordsman. Shien/Djem So doesn't have the focus on fighting saber users that Shii-Cho would, since the latter is derived from ancient swordfighting techniques. Despite Kit Fisto's quick loss, we shouldn't discredit what is perhaps the most solid form of saber fighting under Juyo and Makashi. Ataru beats it out in my listing, but only for sheer aggression and mobility; defensewise, Shii-Cho is better.

Shien/Djem So comes next. While I have a higher opinion of this fighting style than I once did, it still doesn't make it to the high tiers. Why? Well, the focus is on heavy swings and strength, and while it does have some flashy moves, these are not enough to win a battle. Obi-Wan versus Anakin showed many flaws in the form, and that is it canno overcome a superior defense even with strength and speed if the other person gives ground and fights smart. Soresu follows, and although I believe a Jedi with exceptional swordsmanship and force attunement could literally be unbeatable mastering this form, it does not take full advantage of the sword in combat, and thus can only be effectively mixed with another form for full potential.

As for Niman. Meh. Niman is too basic to prove to be strong. People talk of "mastering Niman", but this is in effect learning Juyo. Niman is the equivalent of high school diploma, whereas say Makashi would be a history or math major. It improves and perfects nothing and is in effect inperfect, even if "mastered". Really, this isn't a full style so much as an ad hoc mixup of more superior styles, crammed together in a can and sold to less martial jedi. I'd be surprised if it was even used by any frontline jedi before the Pax republica era.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Erm, well, I get the impression that your biased towards Makashi. . . (end sarcasm)

It does get terribly annoying when people go on rants about how Vaapad annihilates darksiders, reflects Dark Side attacks, and allows the user to 'see into the Dark Side'.

Erm. . .well it's only my screenname. LOL. I only put Makashi on top is because when I mean battle, I mean man to man duel not an arena battle like Geonosis. In a battle like that I'd use Ataru.

Vaapad isn't all it's cracked up to be. . .Vaapad lacks in;

1. Style

2. Precision

3. Finesse

Originally posted by Lord Darkstar
darn it my 'amen' was to General Makashi, not you Faunus

Thx much. . .

Well, I think every Jedi has Battle Precog to some degree or another. I mean how else would they be able to predict incoming blasts. If they can predict flying blasts, then why couldn't they predict an incoming swing? I believe every Jedi has Battle Precog, to some or another degree.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
If someone with Battle Precog used Soresu, they would be invincible in saber combat.

Hell yeah, tobad they are going to have a really hard to win though. It should be combined with some other style like Makashi or something, it would make you unbeatable...

Originally posted by Se7in
Well, I think every Jedi has Battle Precog to some degree or another. I mean how else would they be able to predict incoming blasts. If they can predict flying blasts, then why couldn't they predict an incoming swing? I believe every Jedi has Battle Precog, to some or another degree.

Battle Precog is pretty moot in lightsaber battles, seeing as fighters would have it.

And I meant both fighters.

Originally posted by Se7in
Well, I think every Jedi has Battle Precog to some degree or another. I mean how else would they be able to predict incoming blasts. If they can predict flying blasts, then why couldn't they predict an incoming swing? I believe every Jedi has Battle Precog, to some or another degree.

Jedi sense are not battle precog. Battle precognition was introduced in KOTOR II. Initially, it is an Echani ability which requires some training. We can assume Echani jedi (Lord Hoth, Atris, The Handmaiden, etc.) can use it to some degree or another. It's basically knowing a move and avoiding it well before it happens. Note that it is distinct and is set apart from jedi attunement; in game play mechanics, it's even a stacked defense value and passive force power.

Now, the Handmaiden does say that (supposively) elder echani masters can use this to predict battles and even whole wars. However, it should be noted that the Handmaiden is sort of naive, and this claim is too much to believe, especially since no elder Echani has ever shown this ability. Yusanis, the highest ranking Echani duellist in the KOTOR era, was defeated by Revan (Who was reputed to use Battle Precognition as well). Obviously, unless Yusanis was an idiot, he didn't know how that battle was gonna turn out. So basically I rule out the overblown possibility of Battle Precognition determining wars. And no, it is NOT a tactical power only, as has been suggested. It's a combat-related power, as described in game. Period.

Question...

I've seen a few lightsaber styles mentioned in a few places (namely on the Completely Unofficial Star Wars Encyclopedia, which in turn got the terms from Labyrint of Evil and the Ep3 Visual Dictionary).

However, I've seen no explanations as to what they are, really.

1) Kai-Kan, all that is mentioned is the stance, which is a lightsaber held in both hands, low across the chest

2) Lus-ma, nothing is mentioned of what it is

3) Ataro, sounds almost exactly like Ataru in description (athletic movements, speed, etc.), except that it has a two-handed defensive posture rather than the offensive capabilities of Ataru


Kai-Kan I cannot connect with anything, I was hoping someone else could.

Lus-ma, nothing can be connected.

Ataro...um...either a subform of Ataru or a precursor to Ataru?

Don't forget Trakata.

well if sidious mastered niman to the highest order than well he would be very well rounded, but due to his acrobatic flips i would say he uses some for of Aratu. Does anyone know what Ki Adi Mundi used? It didnt seem very good...

Form I
Millennia before the Clone Wars, advanced technology replaced metal swords with energy-beam lightsabers. In this transition the first Form was born. Jedi Masters created Form I from ancient sword-fighting traditions, since the principles of blade combat remained much the same. The basics of attack, parry, body target zones, and the practice drills called velocities are all here.


Young Jedi still begin their training by learning Form I.

Form II
The ultimate refinement of lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat became Form II, advancing the precision of blade manipulation to its finest possible degree and producing the greatest dueling masters the galaxy has ever seen.
Today Form II is an archaism studied by almost no one in the Jedi Order, because it is not relevant to current tactical situations, in which Jedi enemies rarely fight with lightsabers. Even with the resurgence of the Sith, confrontation of an enemy with a lightsaber is an exceedingly rare prospect for a Jedi, so they continue to focus on more practical Forms. Sith expecting to battle lightsaber-wielding Jedi, however, find Form II a powerful technique.


Form II is the chosen discipline of the machiavellian Separatist Count Dooku, who wields it to devastating effect. His utterly precise moves overwhelm Jedi who are not accustomed to the special requirements of lightsaber dueling. With Form II, Dooku holds his own even against Master Yoda.
Acknowledged practitioners: Count Dooku, Exar Kun

Form III
The third great lightsaber discipline was first developed in response to the advancement of blaster technology in the galaxy. As these weapons spread widely into the hands of evil-doers, Jedi had to develop unique means of defending themselves. Form III thus arose from "laserblast" deflection training. Over the centuries it has transcended this origin to become a highly refined expression of non-aggressive Jedi philosophy. Form III maximizes defensive protection in a style characterized by tight, efficient movements that expose minimal target area compared to the relatively open style of some of the other Forms.
Obi-Wan Kenobi takes up a dedication to Form III after the death of Qui-Gon Jinn (who favored Form IV), since it was apparent to Kenobi that Jinn's defense was insufficient against the Sith techniques of Darth Maul. True Form III masters are considered invincible. Even in his elder years, Kenobi remains a formidable Form III practitioner.


Even the extraordinarily deadly Jango Fett is unable to penetrate Obi-Wan Kenobi's superb lightsaber defenses.
Acknowledged practitioners: Obi-Wan Kenobi

Form IV
Form IV is the most acrobatic Form, heavily emphasizing Jedi abilities to run, jump, and spin in phenomenal ways by using the Force. Masters of Form IV incorporate all of the ways in which the Force helps them go beyond what is physically possible. Their lightsaber combat is astonishing to watch, filled with elaborate moves in the center of which a Jedi may be all but a blur. Yoda, with his deep emphasis on the Force in all things, is a Form IV master. Form IV was also the chosen discipline of Qui-Gon Jinn and the early choice of his apprentice Obi-Wan Kenobi.


Ordinarily Yoda walks with a slight limp, his ancient body wracked with arthritis and the normal infirmities of old age. In combat however, the diminutive Jedi Master presents extraordinary strength and reflexes - entirely the result of focusing the Force through his physical body and not just his spirit as is his usual emphasis.
Acknowledged practitioners: Yoda, Qui-Gon Jinn

Form V
During an era when Jedi were called upon to more actively maintain the peace in the galaxy, Form V arose alongside Form IV to address a need for greater power among the Jedi. Jedi Masters who felt that Form III could be too passive developed Form V. A Form III master might be undefeatable, but neither could he necessarily overcome his enemy. Form V focuses on strength and lightsaber attack moves. This Form exploits the ability of the lightsaber to block a blaster bolt and turns this defensive move into an offensive attack by deflecting the bolt deliberately towards an opponent. A dedication to the power and strength necessary to defeat an enemy characterizes the philosophy of Form V, which some Jedi describe by the maxim "peace through superior firepower." To some Jedi Knights, Form V represents a worthy discipline prepared for any threat; to others Form V seems to foster an inappropriate focus on dominating others.


As the Clone War begins, Anakin Skywalker dedicates himself to Form V in his increasingly blind quest for strength. As Darth Vader he will still be using Form V when he confronts Obi-Wan Kenobi and later Luke Skywalker.
Acknowledged practitioners: Anakin Skywalker, Luke Skywalker

Form VI
In the time of Palpatine's Chancellorship, Form VI is the current standard in Jedi lightsaber training. This Form balances the emphases of other Forms with overall moderation, in keeping with the Jedi quest to achieve true harmony and justice without resorting to the rule of power. It is considered the "diplomat's Form" because it is less intensive in its demands than the other disciplines, allowing Jedi to spend more time developing their skills in perception, political strategy, and negotiation. In practice, Form VI is a combination of Forms I, III, IV, and V. Young Jedi spend their first few years studying Form I and then a year or two with each additional Form before completing their training. By comparison, a Form VI master will spend at least ten years studying only that Form after completing the basic Form I training. Form VI well suits the modern Jedi's role in the galaxy, in which a Knight overly trained in martial combat might be at a loss to resolve a complex political conflict between star systems. However, full masters of other Forms sometimes consider Form VI to be insufficiently demanding.


In an increasingly dangerous galaxy, the "diplomat's Form" might not be enough against serious combat dangers. All the Form VI Jedi Knights who fight on Geonosis die in the arena battle.
Acknowledged practitioners: numerous Jedi, including those lost on Geonosis

Form VII
Only high-level masters of multiple Forms can achieve and control the ultimate descipline known as Form VII. This is the most difficult and demanding of all Forms, but it can eventually lead to fantastic power and skill. Form VII employs bold, direct movements, more open and kinetic than Form V but not so elaborate in appearance as Form IV. In addition to very advanced Force-assisted jumps and movements, Form VII tactics overwhelm opponents with seemingly unconnected staccato sequences, making the Form highly unpredictable in battle. This trait makes for a much more difficult execution than the graceful, linked move sequences of Form IV. Form VII requires the intensity of Form V, but much greater energy since that focus is wielded more broadly. Form VII draws upon a deeper well of emotion than even Form V, yet masters it more fully. The outward bearing of a Form VII practitioner is one of calm, but the inner pressure verges on explosion. Form VII is still under development since so few can achieve the necessary mastery to advance the art.


Form VII master Mace Windu fights alongside Form III practitioner Obi-Wan Kenobi in the Battle of Geonosis. This spiritually dangerous regimen cuts perilously close to the Sith intensity of focus on physical combat ability. Mace Windu is one of the only current practitioners of Form VII.

Author Dr. David West Reynolds and fencer Jack "Stelen" Bobo derived the "in universe" principles of lightsaber combat based on the action that appears in all five Star Wars films to date. An importance notice to the reader: these Jedi histories are not stunt choreographies nor intructions from Episodes I and II Stunt Coordinator Nick Gillard, who developed the exciting sequences we see on screen. Do not attempt fencing without proper safety precautions and training.

See this article and other exciting information in Issue 62 of Star Wars Insider.

http://swg.stratics.com/content/gameplay/professions/jedi/lightsaber_combat.php

Unfortunately, we know all of those. *shrug*

I abuse this source for my information:
http://www.answers.com/topic/lightsaber-combat?hl=kotor&hl=2

Although you never know for sure as it's not official, it does sound plausible..

I haven't read this whole page, but I keep hearing 'Ninman' pop up.

I am EXTREMELY certain that palpatine is a master of Ataro and Juyo. A very agressive combination of both.

It makes sense.

In KOTOR II, which all self respecting SW fans should own, I use Ataro. Against EVERYONE. Why? Because if you can kill a single opponent before he can do anything, does it matter that you are exposed to more than one? Finish one in record time, move on to the next. If you have noticed, the jumps were...precise. Ninman, even fully mastered, does not give someone the full grace of a precise Ataro jump. He glided past foes, launched strikes in midair...beyond the par of most Ninman users.

His blade was everywhere.

=Not to mention that Ninman is described as 'Passive, balanced, for those who preferred Force mastery."

The LAST thing I call Palpatine is 'passive' and 'balanced.' He sought, ALWAYS to put his foes on edge, to expose their weaknesses. He aggressively attacked, on par with most Sith tradition. Can you name any combination of styles more...aggressive than Ataro and Juyo?

Djem So, shien perhaps?

Shien-Perseverance.
Ataro-Agression
Juyo-Ferocity.

I think not.

As for Exar Kun, Makashi? I spent a LARGE portion of time researching that man.

Dooku placed clear resentment in use of more than one blade in Labyrinth of Evil, LoE.

He mastered makashi. The inventor of the Staff saber, a Makashi master? Doubtful.

Not to mention, Dooku described Maul as a 'mere animal.' An animal that employed the tool of Exar kun.

=Hard to believe.

maybe you shouldn't have awaken this thread up...

I dunno.. wait for what they'll going to say...

Originally posted by Nylost Trask
I haven't read this whole page, but I keep hearing 'Ninman' pop up.

I am EXTREMELY certain that palpatine is a master of Ataro and Juyo. A very agressive combination of both.

It makes sense.

In KOTOR II, which all self respecting SW fans should own, I use Ataro. Against EVERYONE. Why? Because if you can kill a single opponent before he can do anything, does it matter that you are exposed to more than one? Finish one in record time, move on to the next. If you have noticed, the jumps were...precise. Ninman, even fully mastered, does not give someone the full grace of a precise Ataro jump. He glided past foes, launched strikes in midair...beyond the par of most Ninman users.

His blade was everywhere.

=Not to mention that Ninman is described as 'Passive, balanced, for those who preferred Force mastery."

The LAST thing I call Palpatine is 'passive' and 'balanced.' He sought, ALWAYS to put his foes on edge, to expose their weaknesses. He aggressively attacked, on par with most Sith tradition. Can you name any combination of styles more...aggressive than Ataro and Juyo?

Djem So, shien perhaps?

Shien-Perseverance.
Ataro-Agression
Juyo-Ferocity.

I think not.

As for Exar Kun, Makashi? I spent a LARGE portion of time researching that man.

Dooku placed clear resentment in use of more than one blade in Labyrinth of Evil, LoE.

He mastered makashi. The inventor of the Staff saber, a Makashi master? Doubtful.

Not to mention, Dooku described Maul as a 'mere animal.' An animal that employed the tool of Exar kun.

=Hard to believe.

I think you'll find that it's Ataru, not Ataro. Matthew Stover was smoking crack at the time of his writing the Episode III novelisation.

About Ataru, I think it's the one form that holds no limitations on skill. For all the other forms, you can master them but it's hard to get much better because of the limitations.