Cassandra Nova vs Martian Manhunter

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xmarksthespot
So apparently Martian Manhunter is a more powerful telepath than Xavier. How does he fare against Xavier's mummudrai - his evil twin - Cassandra Nova? No prep.

BENITO
Cassandra Nova would probably switch bodies with him and then kill her weak fragile body

Draco69
Cassandra Nova was a beast. But nothing MM can't handle. Nova was as strong as Xavier telepathy-wise so MM beats her in that department.

Or one blast of Martian Vision wipes her from existence. Besides Marvel telepaths for some odd reason cannot use their telepathy effectively against shapeshifters. And MM is a cream of the crop shapeshifter.


Mean old Martian. Attacking fragile old ladies.

Draco69
Originally posted by BENITO
Cassandra Nova would probably switch bodies with him and then kill her weak fragile body

The only reason she could do that was because of Cerebra. And she doesn't have it. And it wouldn't work anyhow.

BENITO
Originally posted by Draco69
Cassandra Nova was a beast. But nothing MM can't handle. Nova was as strong as Xavier telepathy-wise so MM beats her in that department.

Or one blast of Martian Vision wipes her from existence. Besides Marvel telepaths for some odd reason cannot use their telepathy effectively against shapeshifters. And MM is a cream of the crop shapeshifter.


Mean old Martian. Attacking fragile old ladies. Whats the point in creating as miss matched thread? Then?

xmarksthespot
Cassandra Nova did a whole bunch of crap that Xavier cound never do and has a whole bunch of extra powers - psychokinesis, hyper-regenerative powers, intangibility, psi-plasmic armor, heat bursts, and the ability to analyze genetic codes then absorb them into "her" body - she can also technically call in a bunch of Sentinels if she wanted if I recall. She's never really did per se she regenerated from a dead pre-term fetus.

The only shapeshifter that I can recall can't be affected by Marvel telepathy is Mystique. Aliens, telepaths seem to affect just fine e.g. the Shi'ar by Cassandra Nova. big grin

Superherovandal
Yeah but the fact is MM is quite adept at blocking out his mind. And he can just phase through her body and scramble her mind. He's one of the top telepaths in any company.

Draco69
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Cassandra Nova did a whole bunch of crap that Xavier cound never do and has a whole bunch of extra powers - psychokinesis, hyper-regenerative powers, intangibility, psi-plasmic armor, heat bursts, and the ability to analyze genetic codes then absorb them into "her" body - she can also technically call in a bunch of Sentinels if she wanted if I recall. She's never really did per se she regenerated from a dead pre-term fetus.

Yep. Too bad alot these powers are damn useless against MM.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The only shapeshifter that I can recall can't be affected by Marvel telepathy is Mystique. Aliens, telepaths seem to affect just fine e.g. the Shi'ar by Cassandra Nova. big grin

Yep. Mystique AND the Skrulls.

Philosophía
Respawn.

Mindset
What was draco smoking?

Existere
Cassandra Nova. J'onn would have the initial edge due to speed, but given her hyper regenerative powers and the face that the battle takes place in character, there's not much of an argument that he'd speedblitz (or even speed-vision) for a win. Afterwards, if she's being taken physically, she can phase, heal, and dominate J'onn telepathically.

leonidas
i miss xmarks. cassie wins though.

Prep-Man
so mm gets to use all his powers? i give mm the nod.

inimalist
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
So apparently Martian Manhunter is a more powerful telepath than Xavier.

is this the consensus opinion?

Zack Fair
Originally posted by inimalist
is this the consensus opinion?

Pretty much.

Mindset
Originally posted by inimalist
is this the consensus opinion? No.

MrMind
Cassandra nova isn't going to mind rape MM. MM is way more powerful TP than professor x.. the dude penetrated the mind of dr fate and freaking spectre. temporarily made the joker sane. he's one of the most powerful telepath in dc. if Mageddon couldn't mindrape MM, cassandra nova sure can't
And she's not copying his DNA either, Martian can alter their body structure and DNA.
there're so many ways for MM to kill her. like martian vision, or simply punch her in the face.

Martian_mind
J'onn.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by MrMind
Cassandra nova isn't going to mind rape MM. MM is way more powerful TP than professor x.. the dude penetrated the mind of dr fate and freaking spectre. temporarily made the joker sane. he's one of the most powerful telepath in dc. if Mageddon couldn't mindrape MM, cassandra nova sure can't
And she's not copying his DNA either, Martian can alter their body structure and DNA.
there're so many ways for MM to kill her. like martian vision, or simply punch her in the face.

Manhunter will mindrape himself the minute he touches Cassandra Nova's mind. He's not navigating around those booby traps if Charles and Jean manifesting the Phoenix couldn't.

Prep-Man
Originally posted by MrMind
Cassandra nova isn't going to mind rape MM. MM is way more powerful TP than professor x.. the dude penetrated the mind of dr fate and freaking spectre. temporarily made the joker sane. he's one of the most powerful telepath in dc. if Mageddon couldn't mindrape MM, cassandra nova sure can't
And she's not copying his DNA either, Martian can alter their body structure and DNA.
there're so many ways for MM to kill her. like martian vision, or simply punch her in the face.

Don't forget the special mind trick Jonz can do that finished Despero.

Existere
Originally posted by MrMind
Cassandra nova isn't going to mind rape MM. MM is way more powerful TP than professor x.. the dude penetrated the mind of dr fate and freaking spectre. temporarily made the joker sane. he's one of the most powerful telepath in dc. if Mageddon couldn't mindrape MM, cassandra nova sure can't
And she's not copying his DNA either, Martian can alter their body structure and DNA.
there're so many ways for MM to kill her. like martian vision, or simply punch her in the face. Cassandra isn't equal to Xavier, she's outright superior to an Xavier that's using cerebra (and therefore amping his psychic power to the tenth degree).

As far as martian vision or 'punching her in the face', Cassandra can phase and heal past any physical attacks, so that route of debate is pretty much moot.

MrMind
Originally posted by Existere
Cassandra isn't equal to Xavier, she's outright superior to an Xavier that's using cerebra (and therefore amping his psychic power to the tenth degree).

As far as martian vision or 'punching her in the face', Cassandra can phase and heal past any physical attacks, so that route of debate is pretty much moot.
I never said she's equal to him
simple fact is she's not fast enough to react to martian, she needs to react to do all the stuff you named. martian for the instant kill

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Manhunter will mindrape himself the minute he touches Cassandra Nova's mind. He's not navigating around those booby traps if Charles and Jean manifesting the Phoenix couldn't.
what makes you think MM will mindrape her, he likely end the fight physically

Existere
Originally posted by MrMind
I never said she's equal to him
simple fact is she's not fast enough to react to martian, she needs to react to do all the stuff you named. martian for the instant kill Because J'onn is in the habit of instantly speed-punching his foes to death, right?

MrMind
Originally posted by Existere
Because J'onn is in the habit of instantly speed-punching his foes to death, right?
simple knock out will do

Existere
Originally posted by MrMind
simple knock out will do Because J'onn's in the habit of speedblitzing, right?

Also, in order to move slow enough that he would just knock her out (which, given that her body isn't human and her insta-heal nature, isn't a given), she'd have time to phase regardless, making this once again a pointless discussion.

This battle is all telepathic.

MrMind
Originally posted by Existere
Because J'onn's in the habit of speedblitzing, right?

Also, in order to move slow enough that he would just knock her out (which, given that her body isn't human and her insta-heal nature, isn't a given), she'd have time to phase regardless, making this once again a pointless discussion.

This battle is all telepathic.
no, he can control his strength, while going super speed. this isn't really hard to understand. unless you can show evidence of Nova react to characters as fast as MM

Existere
Originally posted by MrMind
no, he can control his strength, while going super speed. Evidence of J'onn doing something like that, ever?

753
Originally posted by inimalist
is this the consensus opinion? No it's not.
chuck's feats match MMH's. they are peers.

and regarding the other points in this thread:
shapeshifters can be affected by TP just just fine in the MU and chuck already made it clear that mistique's powers can only cloud his mindreading, but that he could shut her mind or motor functions, for instance, just fine. She has no defense against offensive TP.

in terms of defense agaisnt physical atatcks, Nova has intangibilty, the energy armor with which she beat the shit out of gladiator and rolled over the imperial guard and super healing factor. so her defense will hold just fine to allow her to contend with him.

offensivelly she has matter desintegration/TK and heatbursts

according to chuck her mind itself was a trap and according to jean it was was a hole where it should be, she JG with phoenix at the same time and swatted chuck aside like a bug.

She wins.

MrMind
Originally posted by Existere
Evidence of J'onn doing something like that, ever?
you think people like superman or MM can't control their strength while going at super speed?

Prep-Man
Jonz will absorb the earth and increase his strength like he did in Ostrander's run and beat the hell out of the bald woman.

Existere
Originally posted by MrMind
you think people like superman or MM can't control their strength while going at super speed? Strawman.

It's not about what they can do, but what they would do. And Superman is a very different beast than Martian Manhunter.

So, again, evidence of J'onn speedblitzing? Especially speedblitzing with care to just lightly 'tap' them for a KO?

I'll again point out that Cassandra Nova has a major healing factor and that this discussion is pointless, but if you insist on having an exercise in dissecting your flawed logic, we can do so.

Prep-Man
Didn't he just speed blitz the female martian in Brightest day?

MrMind
Originally posted by Existere
Strawman.

It's not about what they can do, but what they would do. And Superman is a very different beast than Martian Manhunter.

So, again, evidence of J'onn speedblitzing? Especially speedblitzing with care to just lightly 'tap' them for a KO?

I'll again point out that Cassandra Nova has a major healing factor and that this discussion is pointless, but if you insist on having an exercise in dissecting your flawed logic, we can do so.
yes MM is very different than superman because MM is willing to kill. when in battle forum, 2 characters fight in full capacity, why can't MM speedblitze the old lady, why do I need evidence of MM speedblize ko? it's like tell me to show evidence of superman speedblize some random thugs ko them. everybody knows superman can do that. that's the fastest way to take out the opponents. it's easily within J'onn's ability to do so.

and the easiest and most likely way j'onn will end this battle. healing factor doesn't mean anything if MM can just KO her.

MrMind
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Didn't he just speed blitz the female martian in Brightest day?
J'onn speedblitze numerous time before.
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u131/jason-todd/Jimscomic167.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u131/jason-todd/Jimscomic168.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u131/jason-todd/Jimscomic169.jpg

Existere
Originally posted by MrMind
J'onn speedblitze numerous time before.
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u131/jason-todd/Jimscomic167.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u131/jason-todd/Jimscomic168.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u131/jason-todd/Jimscomic169.jpg Lol. That's the one feat that Jim (Martian Mind) posted in the respect thread that indicates J'onn using significant speed in combat, and, for the most part, he's just flying really fast around the world through buildings. Clearly not indicative of regular combat behavior as we'd be looking for in this battle.

Try again though.

chomperx9
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
So apparently Martian Manhunter is a more powerful telepath than Xavier. How does he fare against Xavier's mummudrai - his evil twin - Cassandra Nova? No prep. Manhunter is a more powerful Telepath than xavier ? confused

batdude123
Originally posted by Existere
Lol. That's the one feat that Jim (Martian Mind) posted in the respect thread that indicates J'onn using significant speed in combat, and, for the most part, he's just flying really fast around the world through buildings. Clearly not indicative of regular combat behavior as we'd be looking for in this battle.

Try again though.

Ok.

J'onn speed blitzes ftw.

Existere
Originally posted by batdude123
Ok.

J'onn speed blitzes ftw. Solid attempt.

MrMind
Originally posted by Existere
Lol. That's the one feat that Jim (Martian Mind) posted in the respect thread that indicates J'onn using significant speed in combat, and, for the most part, he's just flying really fast around the world through buildings. Clearly not indicative of regular combat behavior as we'd be looking for in this battle.

Try again though.

Originally posted by MrMind
yes MM is very different than superman because MM is willing to kill. when in battle forum, 2 characters fight in full capacity, why can't MM speedblitze the old lady, why do I need evidence of MM speedblize ko? it's like tell me to show evidence of superman speedblize some random thugs ko them. everybody knows superman can do that. that's the fastest way to take out the opponents. it's easily within J'onn's ability to do so.

and the easiest and most likely way j'onn will end this battle. healing factor doesn't mean anything if MM can just KO her.

batdude123
Originally posted by Existere
Solid attempt.

Concession accepted.

vin

Prep-Man
i would say hes up there. def peers. add a whole crap load of powers and abilities and mm gets my vote.

Existere
Originally posted by MrMind
everybody knows superman can do that. that's the fastest way to take out the opponents. it's easily within J'onn's ability to do so.
A number of things are easily within a character's ability to do- we argue what they would do, not what they could do. 'Would' is based on personality and typical tactics.

So, give an indication that what you're suggesting is a typical tactic for J'onn and we can work from there.

MrMind
Originally posted by Existere
A number of things are easily within a character's ability to do- we argue what they would do, not what they could do. 'Would' is based on personality and typical tactics.

So, give an indication that what you're suggesting is a typical tactic for J'onn and we can work from there.
like I said before, because it's the easiest and most likely way j'onn will end this battle

Existere
Originally posted by MrMind
like I said before, because it's the easiest and most likely way j'onn will end this battle That's not evidence.

Try again.

MrMind
Originally posted by Existere
That's not evidence.

Try again.
how about you try to explain how cassandra nova win instead. you're not worth my time for digging scans.

Existere
Originally posted by MrMind
how about you try to explain how cassandra nova win instead. you're not worth my time for digging scans. Telepathy.

MrMind
Originally posted by Existere
Telepathy.
MM will resist it

Existere
Originally posted by MrMind
MM will resist it Based on what?

MrMind
Originally posted by Existere
Based on what?
based on he resisted Mageddon

Existere
Originally posted by MrMind
based on he resisted Mageddon So?

Prep-Man
mm can turn intangible and phase his body and mind into another dimension. can cassandra affect him then?

MrMind
Originally posted by Existere
So?
Mageddon >>>>>>>>>> cassandra nova

Mindset
Originally posted by MrMind
Mageddon >>>>>>>>>> cassandra nova Originally posted by Existere
Based on what?

Prep-Man
didnt mageddon lay waste entire worlds, includding wonderworld a place where the jla looked like ants and thier power levels dwarfed in comarison. mageddon even effected planets lightyears away.

MrMind
Originally posted by Mindset

Mageddon mindraped entire planet of gods.

Mindset
Originally posted by MrMind
Mageddon mindraped entire planet of gods. Originally posted by Existere
So?

Prep-Man
eventually mageddon was a universal threat. even the new gods were afraid of it.

MrMind
Originally posted by Mindset

so cassandra nova means squat to magedddon, if megaddon couldn't mindrape MM, cassandra nova can't.
and since I'm pretty sure you will be trolling me by saying "based on what" one more time. I'm done here.

Mindset
I've yet to see what puts Mageddon's telepathy over Nova's.

MrMind
Originally posted by Mindset
I've yet to see what puts Mageddon's telepathy over Nova's.
see harder
or better yet, actually read comics with mageddon in it.

Existere
Originally posted by MrMind
Mageddon mindraped entire planet of gods. That's range and power, not skill.

What's to suggest that the gods were hard to mindrape? Cassandra Nova tore through the Shi'Ar imperial guard, effectively gods themselves, who were additionally shielded by Shi'Ar mind armor, and she did it with utter ease. I don't know that we've ever actually seen her need to exert herself to mindrape somebody.

Prep-Man
has nova ever mind raped god like beings who were surrounded by a barrier that was moving far faster than the flash can ever dream of?

Existere
Why would that matter?

MrMind
Originally posted by Prep-Man
has nova ever mind raped god like beings who were surrounded by a barrier that was moving far faster than the flash can ever dream of?
no

Mindset
Originally posted by MrMind
see harder
or better yet, actually read comics with mageddon in it. Or better yet, prove your case.

Sr J-Bieb
Originally posted by Prep-Man
has nova ever mind raped god like beings who were surrounded by a barrier that was moving far faster than the flash can ever dream of? Yes, twice.

Prep-Man
Originally posted by MrMind no

then ill go with mageddon. and i still say mm ftw. but i give nova the edge if its a pure psychic battle.

Konton
Nova punks him.

Warlord
Magedon's influence was never stated to be TP IIRC

inimalist
Originally posted by chomperx9
Manhunter is a more powerful Telepath than xavier ? confused

I dont think so, no

Prep-Man
Originally posted by Warlord
Magedon's influence was never stated to be TP IIRC

I think his powers were mind control and being able to taint emotions. So, I think it's both.

Allankles
In a fight MM would prevail. They're both potent Telepaths so that aspect of the fight is cancelled out.

Existere
Originally posted by Allankles
In a fight MM would prevail. They're both potent Telepaths so that aspect of the fight is cancelled out. What?

"Thing fights Superman. Superman can heat vision for the win. They're both superstrong, so that aspect of the fight is cancelled out".

Allankles
Originally posted by Existere
Telepathy.

You seriously think she's going to mindrape a centuries old Martian with planetary level telepathy?

Existere
Originally posted by Allankles
You seriously think she's going to mindrape a centuries old Martian with planetary level telepathy? ...yes?

Allankles
Originally posted by Existere
What?

"Thing fights Superman. Superman can heat vision for the win. They're both superstrong, so that aspect of the fight is cancelled out".

I don't see her telepathy overwhelming the Martian, so.....

Existere
Originally posted by Allankles
I don't see her telepathy overwhelming the Martian, so..... Why not?

753
Originally posted by Allankles
You seriously think she's going to mindrape a centuries old Martian with planetary level telepathy? chuck and jean have planetary telepathy too and she steamrolled them both a the same time. jean was manifesting the PF when it happened

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by 753
chuck and jean have planetary telepathy too and she steamrolled them both a the same time. jean was manifesting the PF when it happened

I think their telepathy is stronger then planetary.

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/9789/16295942.th.jpg

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/7767/theuncannyxmen157page8.th.jpg

Magneto permanently hindered all long range telepathy on Earth. There's the third reference to it.

Allankles
Because he can resist an assault from a weapon designed by gods to warp with people's minds. He can also resist concerted TP attacks from several other martians. His TP is potent enough to affect god like beings, well above the level of the Shiar, Mageddon and the Spectre come to mind.

Can Nova resist a god entity like Mageddon? I think you're underestimating MM if you think Nova will override defenses that many beings similar to MM or above him have failed to do.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Allankles
Because he can resist an assault from a weapon designed by gods to warp with people's minds. He can also resist concerted TP attacks from several other martians. His TP is potent enough to affect god like beings, well above the level of the Shiar, Mageddon and the Spectre come to mind.

Can Nova resist a god entity like Mageddon? I think you're underestimating MM if you think Nova will override defenses that many beings similar to MM or above him have failed to do.

Except what about all those times Manhunter has been mindraped? Consistentcy is key. Cassandra Nova has consistency on her side.

How many of those Martians had feats? If you want to go by no-named featless powerhouses just look to the Sh'iar Empire. The Imperial guard is huge.

And again, it's not a matter of power it's a matter of skill. And if Charles and a competenent Phoenix Jean got curbstomped by her booby trapped mind then Manhunter isn't doing any better TP wise.

Allankles
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I think their telepathy is stronger then planetary.

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/9789/16295942.th.jpg


How is that above planetary?

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Allankles
How is that above planetary?

His wave travels from Earth to the Shi'ar Empire. Look at how long it took Vulcan to get to the Shi'ar Empire, he had to eventually take a warp gate after being captured. It's very far away from Earth.

See other scan too.

Existere
Originally posted by Allankles
Because he can resist an assault from a weapon designed by gods to warp with people's minds. He can also resist concerted TP attacks from several other martians. His TP is potent enough to affect god like beings, well above the level of the Shiar, Mageddon and the Spectre come to mind.

Can Nova resist a god entity like Mageddon? I think you're underestimating MM if you think Nova will override defenses that many beings similar to MM or above him have failed to do. Feel free to actually mention why any of what you've named is impressive. Feats for these 'god like' beings telepathy resistance would be nice.

Attaching the word "god" or "god-like" to statements doesn't indicate a level of impressiveness in a comic book world, and besides that modifier there's very little to go on in this post to back up the belief that J'onn can't be mindraped.

Allankles
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Except what about all those times Manhunter has been mindraped? Consistentcy is key. Cassandra Nova has consistency on her side.

How many of those Martians had feats? If you want to go by no-named featless powerhouses just look to the Sh'iar Empire. The Imperial guard is huge.

Oh, I know he's been affected by TP, but I look at that as par for course with being a hero. TP is esoteric, you can't look at it in the same way you look at physical performance. It is a concentration thing imo. No reason why he wouldn't be at his best in a forum battle.

Mageddon could easily mind warp on a planetary scale, he screwed up the Old Gods in their time, beings that were described as dwarfing all the 3rd and 4th world gods in power.

The Shiar are nowhere near them in power, let's be honest about that.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Allankles
Oh, I know he's been affected by TP, but I look at that as par for course with being a hero. TP is esoteric, you can't look at it in the same way you look at physical performance. It is a concentration thing imo. No reason why he wouldn't be at his best in a forum battle.

Mageddon could easily mind warp on a planetary scale, he screwed up the Old Gods in their time, beings that were described as dwarfing all the 3rd and 4th world gods in power.

The Shiar are nowhere near them in power, let's be honest about that.

I wouldn't look at it that way. I look at it as fixing powers to fit the story. The same could be said about Xavier and those feats I showed above. He has another one where he contacted the Stranger who was off visiting worlds. This was before Magneto warped the Earth to inhibit long ranged telepathy. But it's obviously to fit the story. Consistency is key...take the average.

Have you not looked throught he Shi'ar powersets? Do you know that each member is from a separate planet all who have the same ability. The Sh'iar have stand ins. Millions. For each member that dies they can replace them. Those Martians are no-named nobodies as well.

Allankles
Originally posted by Existere
Feel free to actually mention why any of what you've named is impressive. Feats for these 'god like' beings telepathy resistance would be nice.

Attaching the word "god" or "god-like" to statements doesn't indicate a level of impressiveness in a comic book world, and besides that modifier there's very little to go on in this post to back up the belief that J'onn can't be mindraped.

They were the 2nd world gods their war destroyed their world in Ragnarok, said destruction reverberated through the cosmos for eons in the form of the godwave. An energy wave that is responsible for the powers of the third world gods (Greek, Norse, Egyptian etc) and also beings like the Oans and Kryptonians.

You can't compare the Shiar to them. As far TP resistance goes, if the younger gods have TP resistance (as a group by the way they're all trained to have TP resistance at least the dark gods) why wouldn't their more powerful predecessors?

Prep-Man
So, can Cassandra mind rape MM when he's in intangible mode? IIRC, he hided his thoughts when he was doing this.

Prep-Man
BTW, Shiar suck ass.

Existere
Originally posted by Allankles
They were the 2nd world gods their war destroyed their world in Ragnarok, said destruction reverberated through the cosmos for eons in the form of the godwave. An energy wave that is responsible for the powers of the third world gods (Greek, Norse, Egyptian etc) and also beings like the Oans and Kryptonians.

You can't compare the Shiar to them. As far TP resistance goes, if the younger gods have TP resistance (as a group by the way they're all trained to have TP resistance at least the dark gods) why wouldn't their more powerful predecessors? They were powerful, I understand that. I also understand that there are herald level beings who could be taken out by the kind of psychic attack that could be resisted by Wolverine.

Conversely, Psylocke could take out those heralds and she's a mid meta.

Psychic resistance (or lack of it) is not indicative of power, nor is power indicative of psychic resistance.

Cassandra has actual feats of steamrolling through super advanced mind shielding, through the entirety of the Shi'Ar imperial guard, through Professor X and a Jean Grey that's manifesting the Phoenix, and through an Xavier that's using Cerebra (which amplifies his power to the tenth degree)

Nothing that you've stated indicates that J'onn possesses the type of skill or shielding strong enough to repel the level of psi that could do that with the ease that she did.

Prep-Man
Originally posted by Allankles
Because he can resist an assault from a weapon designed by gods to warp with people's minds. He can also resist concerted TP attacks from several other martians. His TP is potent enough to affect god like beings, well above the level of the Shiar, Mageddon and the Spectre come to mind.

Can Nova resist a god entity like Mageddon? I think you're underestimating MM if you think Nova will override defenses that many beings similar to MM or above him have failed to do.

Don't forget Despero. Since he has been reborn, he can use that special attack.

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