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No prep. Takes place in the Danger Room (and no the Danger Room won't interfere). No PIS. No outside influences.

Beasts agility and feet give Cap some trouble. While Cap tries to use real fighting style and tactics, Beast uses acrobats and both feet as well as hands.

Bitting my tounge kinda, ill say Beast 6/10.

Does Cap have his shield? And what's Beast' strength level these days?
Cap once defeated U.S. Agent - his onetime successor - who's in the 10-ton club, without his shield.

Originally posted by roughrider
Does Cap have his shield? And what's Beast' strength level these days?
Cap once defeated U.S. Agent - his onetime successor - who's in the 10-ton club, without his shield.

Yea because hes not as adept in h2h combat as Cap. Cap was always his superior there. U.S. Agent isnt even a better acrobat than Cap. Hes good, but not that good.

Yes. He has his shield. Beast, thanks to his secondary mutation is the 40 ton range.

Very tough to call, but hard to bet against Steve. I say, he wins most of these matchups over Beast.

Why does everyone worship Cap America. I mean, sure he's a great character and all but some people (not saying you roughrider) seem to think it blasphemy to think of Cap losing.

And yet the people who do the same with Superman are looked down upon.

Beast is much faster, much stronger, much more agile, much more intelligent, has natural weaponry in his felinoid morphology and was an original X-Man so has ample experience.
Yet, everyone is convinced that Cap will win as long as he has his shield?

Swear to god, Cap's shield is like the friggin Holy Grail to some people.

The shield makes the difference. Cap is ultimate at hand-to-hand, shield is indestructable and absorbs vibrations from hits. If Beast was in the Namor class, I would say Cap dodges and holds him off for awhile, but eventually gets it ripped from him and ultimately loses. If not danger room, maybe still different story, but there it is.

And why can't Beast simply dodge the shield and CATCH it with his feet? Or break the arm holding the shield?

That's if Cap throws it - if he's smart, he just uses it defensively, and clocks Beast in vital areas when he's close.

Originally posted by roughrider
That's if Cap throws it - if he's smart, he just uses it defensively, and clocks Beast in vital areas when he's close.

If Cap does use it defensively it will be kinda futile since Cap is likely not to land a single hit with Beast bouncing around the room like a rubber ball.

If anyone will find a vital spot it's gonna be Beast since he's faster, has faster reactions, and is much more intelligent.

8/10 Cap throws the shield.

Cap, I think, is a very overrated character. He seems to have no chance at a lot of people. Beast wins this one 7/10

Originally posted by roughrider
That's if Cap throws it - if he's smart, he just uses it defensively, and clocks Beast in vital areas when he's close. If all he's doing is defending himself with the shield and he tries to get close enough to land any sort of blow, he has his shield holding arm snapped, his throat clawed open and half his skull bitten off. If he throws the shield, Beast catches it.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
If all he's doing is defending himself with the shield and he tries to get close enough to land any sort of blow, he has his shield holding arm snapped, his throat clawed open and half his skull bitten off. If he throws the shield, Beast catches it.

That would be funny: "In the matter per se which we are presently pursuing, it is incumbent upon my sets of wishes that I now, with speediness of forethought, plunge my incisors into your jugular and make a succulent repast of your grey matter, my dear Captain!"

Seriously, though - who has the Beast ever beaten one-on-one, without his fellow mutants backing him up?

Originally posted by Draco69
Yes. He has his shield. Beast, thanks to his secondary mutation is the 40 ton range.

He's really not. He can lift 2 tons. That was just a misinterpretation of the marvel ratings system which started lead to a misconception on this forum. Beast is in the class 4 rating which encompasses 800lbs to 25 tons. Beast lifts 2.

Captain America wins

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
He's really not. He can lift 2 tons. That was just a misinterpretation of the marvel ratings system which started lead to a misconception on this forum. Beast is in the class 4 rating which encompasses 800lbs to 25 tons. Beast lifts 2. Which Marvel Handbook are you looking at. Beast is a 5 in strength in the one I'm seeing.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Which Marvel Handbook are you looking at. Beast is a 5 in strength in the one I'm seeing.

The last Xmen Handbook. Not only does it list him as 4 but it specifically states in his power description that he can lift 2 tons.

I bet youre looking at the site

In the one I just looked at it. It lists as 5 in the bars at the bottom and says 2 tons for some reason.

If Beast is at 2 tons rather than 40, even better odds for Cap.usaflag

Im my bio, it has Beast at 5 strength as well. Thats from 25-75 tons.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Im my bio, it has Beast at 5 strength as well. Thats from 25-75 tons.

What handbook is that?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
In the one I just looked at it. It lists as 5 in the bars at the bottom and says 2 tons for some reason.

Well it seems more likely that the bar charts wrong than the typist accidentally typed in 2 tons instead of 40.

Beasts in comic appearances dont suggest he's anywhere near 40 tons.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
What handbook is that?

Marvel Encyclopedia.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Marvel Encyclopedia.


Well both mine and X's say 2 tons so there!!!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Well both mine and X's say 2 tons so there!!!

Where are your bios from?

Must have been a typo error.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Well it seems more likely that the bar charts wrong than the typist accidentally typed in 2 tons instead of 40.

Beasts in comic appearances dont suggest he's anywhere near 40 tons. You're saying a typo isn't as easy to miss by an editor than a bar? I don't think he's 40 but the lower range of the strength level 5 is entirely reasonable. He was 2 before he underwent the secondary mutation if I recall.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You're saying a typo isn't as easy to miss by an editor than a bar? I don't think he's 40 but the lower range of the strength level 5 is entirely reasonable. He was 2 before he underwent the secondary mutation if I recall.

Indeed.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Indeed.

Indeed NOT!!

He could lift 1 TON before his secondary mutation.

Originally posted by roughrider
That would be funny: "In the matter per se which we are presently pursuing, it is incumbent upon my sets of wishes that I now, with speediness of forethought, plunge my incisors into your jugular and make a succulent repast of your grey matter, my dear Captain!"

Seriously, though - who has the Beast ever beaten one-on-one, without his fellow mutants backing him up?

Danger.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Indeed NOT!!

He could lift 1 TON before his secondary mutation.
It was 1.5t, so something inbetween.
Either way, the question is: how much did the sec.mut. enhance his strength and does it make a difference in this fight.
I say no! 2t or 40t...against a person without invulnerability it is like the choice between a fall out of 100m or 4km...doesn't matter, you're dead anyway!

True.

Beast, with 40-ton range - Cap w/shield can still win, but maybe not.
Beast with 2-ton range - Cap w/shield can win definitely.

Originally posted by roughrider
Beast, with 40-ton range - Cap w/shield can still win, but maybe not.
Beast with 2-ton range - Cap w/shield can win definitely.
Why?
When the shield can absorb either beasts punches, his other abilities are winning or loosing the fight. And when beast can bypass the shield, it doesn't matter which strength level he has as i posted above!

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
If all he's doing is defending himself with the shield and he tries to get close enough to land any sort of blow, he has his shield holding arm snapped, his throat clawed open and half his skull bitten off. If he throws the shield, Beast catches it. Whether he's 2 or 40 ^this is still entirely plausible assuming CIS is off. Btw everyone's neglected to mention Beast has a pretty good healing factor.

Like Cap will just stand there if he should get seperated from his shield. He's taken on vicious animals like the man-rat Vermin; Beast isn't as strong or bloodthirsty as Vermin.

You're comparing a man-RAT to a man-TIGER?

Vermin's strength was at Spider-Man's level, rat or not.

Originally posted by roughrider
Vermin's strength was at Spider-Man's level, rat or not.
when a character is past 1t level in strength it doesn't matter how much he is above that against a human without invulnerability or regenarative powers!!!

And comparing the abilities of two people in using a third is always quite difficult: The Imperator is more powerful then Obi, Anakin is more powerful than the Imperator but Obi defeated Anakin...you see the problem?! (just ONE example)

Actually Anakin wasnt more powerful than the Emperor yet. Difference.

The majority of people will always vote for Caps because he is a first tier hero. Gets his very own comics and the writers can be pretty gracious with him. Beast is a team member and always gets second billing.

However, with that being said, I think Beast beats Caps in size, strength, agility, intelligence, endurance durability and speed.

Experience between the two is negligible.

Caps beats Beast in fighting ability, but just barely.

I'd say beast takes out caps 7 outta ten times. I think giving caps 3 fights outta ten is being gracious, but he does pullout some pretty impressive wins.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Actually Anakin wasnt more powerful than the Emperor yet. Difference.
However...i guess you know what i wanted to express, don't you?! The core meaning of my post is not depending on the example.

Ok I havent bothered reading all these posts so sorry if anything was already said before.

Beast will literally rips Caps limbs off and beat him to death with them, Marvel has given beast ridiculously powerful upgrades and thats why he wins............

Originally posted by willRules
Ok I havent bothered reading all these posts so sorry if anything was already said before.

Beast will literally rips Caps limbs off and beat him to death with them, Marvel has given beast ridiculously powerful upgrades and thats why he wins............

If you read the posts you'd see Beasts upgrades really arent that great. I say Cap wins. He's a much better fighter and has a lot more experience.

It also depends on what things there are in the Danger room. In Avengers Disassembled She Hulk punched Cap but his Shield absorbed the punch so she used her strength to drop a truck on him.......

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
If you read the posts you'd see Beasts upgrades really arent that great. I say Cap wins. He's a much better fighter and has a lot more experience. Only according to you and a typo. "Better fighter" is a vague term and inaccurate when all things are considered aside from h2h skills.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Only according to you and a typo. "Better fighter" is a vague term and inaccurate when all things are considered aside from h2h skills.

Youre 100% correct. Intelligence, speed, agility, plays huge parts in fights.

Experience does count for alot however. Ther more experience, the more chances and time youve had to fight people who have speed agility intelligence over you.

I still say Beast 6/10.

i think Beast wins this most times, Cap might get one or two wins in but beast generally takes this...............

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Only according to you and a typo. "Better fighter" is a vague term and inaccurate when all things are considered aside from h2h skills.

You dont know that it was a typo. Considering Beasts previous strength level and his appearances in comics 2 tons seems about right. Beast for example doesnt appear as strong as spiderman even and certainly nowhere near Rogue.

Captain America is indeed a better fighter than Beast and has far more experience. Not to mention he's come across foes stronger than beast many a time and held his own. Beasts physical advantages just arent superior enough in my opinion to gain him a majority of wins.

Gee...if I say BEAST WINS BEAST WINS!!! EVERY TIME!!! will you be happy then?
You seem to think this is a real lopsided fight; I disagree. It's a tough challenge for both of them.

Originally posted by roughrider
Gee...if I say BEAST WINS BEAST WINS!!! EVERY TIME!!! will you be happy then?
You seem to think this is a real lopsided fight; I disagree. It's a tough challenge for both of them.

I dont think its lopsided at all. I think it will be a close fight. People arguing for beast mistakenly believed him to be class 40 and made out that it would be a breeze. I corrected them and im saying it would be a close fight but i believe Cap would win. Especially now we're all clear that Beast can press 2 tons.

Originally posted by roughrider
Gee...if I say BEAST WINS BEAST WINS!!! EVERY TIME!!! will you be happy then?
You seem to think this is a real lopsided fight; I disagree. It's a tough challenge for both of them.

But some people here think this is a lop sided fight and thats why they keep sayin Beast wins all the time...............

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
If you read the posts you'd see Beasts upgrades really arent that great. I say Cap wins. He's a much better fighter and has a lot more experience.
I already said that i don't think the upgrades are the edge for Beast to win this fight.
When i put aside all that prestige and propaganda for Cap (however well earned it may be) and furry, cute, funboy X-Man from the second row image of Beast, the stats and abilities tell me from a slight advantage for our blue doctor.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I dont think its lopsided at all. I think it will be a close fight. People arguing for beast mistakenly believed him to be class 40 and made out that it would be a breeze. I corrected them and im saying it would be a close fight but i believe Cap would win. Especially now we're all clear that Beast can press 2 tons.

Was talking to Draco69.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Especially now we're all clear that Beast can press 2 tons. That really isn't all that clear - the X-Men handbook is contradictory and the other reference also had him at a 5 strength level. You really expect people to just fall behind such a statement just because you say so? Imo he doesn't lift 40 tons. But he lifts more than two, and he's stronger than Captain America.

I can't believe this is even an argument.

Cap's an 80 year old geriatric in current canon material (HoM). Beast would destroy him.

Even with Cap in top form I'd take Beast. Beast's attributes are comparable to T'Challa's save his fighting skill, but with greater strength and ambidexterity through the use of his feet as hands. He basically has 4 arms, each with considerably greater strength than Cap. Getting the shield out of Cap's hands won't pose too much of a problem. Cap doesn't have an unbreakable bond with the shield, he simply grasps it in his hand. If he uses the shield in a primarily defensive posture, what's to stop Beast from simply grabbing the shield and tossing Cap around with his superior strength?

Nothing.

Whether or not Beast lifts 2 or 200 tons, the fact of the matter is Cap weighs around 230 lbs. It's a non factor, Beast is strong enough to drop him.

Don't let hero worship get in the way of logic.

When ever illadelph12 posts it's ALWAYS with a bang. Good post. And absolutely correct.

Originally posted by illadelph12
I can't believe this is even an argument.

Cap's an 80 year old geriatric in current canon material (HoM). Beast would destroy him.

Even with Cap in top form I'd take Beast. Beast's attributes are comparable to T'Challa's save his fighting skill, but with greater strength and ambidexterity through the use of his feet as hands. He basically has 4 arms, each with considerably greater strength than Cap. Getting the shield out of Cap's hands won't pose too much of a problem. Cap doesn't have an unbreakable bond with the shield, he simply grasps it in his hand. If he uses the shield in a primarily defensive posture, what's to stop Beast from simply grabbing the shield and tossing Cap around with his superior strength?

Nothing.

Whether or not Beast lifts 2 or 200 tons, the fact of the matter is Cap weighs around 230 lbs. It's a non factor, Beast is strong enough to drop him.

Don't let hero worship get in the way of logic.


I've seen Cap overcome stronger oppostion - that's what I'm talking about. And I'm talking defensive to offensive tactics in hand-to-hand from a great acrobatic fighter; Cap's only peer in such a category is Batman. Both know how to use tactics to overcome superior strength.

Originally posted by Draco69
If Cap does use it defensively it will be kinda futile since Cap is likely not to land a single hit with Beast bouncing around the room like a rubber ball.

If anyone will find a vital spot it's gonna be Beast since he's faster, has faster reactions, and is much more intelligent.

There's a difference between "book smart," and "street smart." Beast is a very intelligent scientist. That doesn't make him Miyamoto Musashi. Captain America and Beast both have ample fighting experience, but Cap is a genius at tactics and better versed in the intricacies of martial arts.

I'm going with Cap for the win, just narrowly, as long as he has the shield. Because that shield is the holy grail. Cap 6/10.

Originally posted by roughrider
I've seen Cap overcome stronger oppostion - that's what I'm talking about. And I'm talking defensive to offensive tactics in hand-to-hand from a great acrobatic fighter; Cap's only peer in such a category is Batman. Both know how to use tactics to overcome superior strength.

The problem is that Hank has BETTER offensive tactics, and is a FAR better acrobatic fighter. Tactics can only go so far.

Originally posted by Piedmon
There's a difference between "book smart," and "street smart." Beast is a very intelligent scientist. That doesn't make him Miyamoto Musashi. Captain America and Beast both have ample fighting experience, but Cap is a genius at tactics and better versed in the intricacies of martial arts.

I'm going with Cap for the win, just narrowly, as long as he has the shield. Because that shield is the holy grail. Cap 6/10.

What is it with the shield? Beast sees shield. Beast takes shield. Beast uses it like a surfboard.

If strength is all that matters, why is there page upon page of debate on threads like Batman vs. Spider-Man, or Spider-man vs. Wolverine? There's more to it than that.

"Strength isn't everything. WINNING IS!" - Hulk

Originally posted by Draco69
What is it with the shield? Beast sees shield. Beast takes shield. Beast uses it like a surfboard.

That shield was blessed by the Pope, Draco69.

The War Pope of AMERICA.

Originally posted by roughrider
If strength is all that matters, why is there page upon page of debate on threads like Batman vs. Spider-Man, or Spider-man vs. Wolverine? There's more to it than that.

"Strength isn't everything. WINNING IS!" - Hulk

Because the people arguing for Wolverine or Batman are fanboys. For god's sake when a Class 15 character with near bullet speed agility and webbing goes up against a human...Tactics go f***k itself.

Originally posted by Piedmon
That shield was blessed by the Pope, Draco69.

The War Pope of AMERICA.

You mean George Bush? Then the shield is even more easy to remove.

Originally posted by roughrider
I've seen Cap overcome stronger oppostion - that's what I'm talking about. And I'm talking defensive to offensive tactics in hand-to-hand from a great acrobatic fighter; Cap's only peer in such a category is Batman. Both know how to use tactics to overcome superior strength. Oh... now I'm going to have to come up for a BS Comics pseudonym for Captain America...

Beast is stronger, faster, smarter, more agile, has spent as much of his life training and has natural morphological weaponry that would make short work of Cap's flesh and bones. On top of that he has good durability and a healing factor. He can fling Cap around like a rag doll, bite out his jugular, slash open his stomach, break both his arms... etc etc

Originally posted by Draco69
Because the people arguing for Wolverine or Batman are fanboys. For god's sake when a Class 15 character with near bullet speed agility and webbing goes up against a human...Tactics go f***k itself.


Because battles aren't fought on paper. Like Chris Berman says: "That's...why they play the game."

After spinning and weaving around the room for minutes, Beast does a suprise spring at Cap, but Cap isn't suprised, lets him sail past, clocks him in the back of the head with the shield, fight over.
Then he kneels over him and says: "Are you all right son? Do you need some help?"

Originally posted by roughrider
Because battles aren't fought on paper. Like Chris Berman says: "That's...why they play the game."

After spinning and weaving around the room for minutes, Beast does a suprise spring at Cap, but Cap isn't suprised, lets him sail past, clocks him in the back of the head with the shield, fight over.
Then he kneels over him and says: "Are you all right son? Do you need some help?"

You think a simple clock on the head is gonna put down the Beast. For god's sake, he's taken hits from the Juggernaut.

This is just pure fanboyism and hero worship.

Beast is STRONGER
Beast is FASTER
Beast is SMARTER
Beast is MORE AGILE
BEAST has MORE WEAPONS

Am I the only missing the pure, utter common sense?

When did he take hit s from Juggernaut - in his class 100 days years ago? He a 2-toner, marginal strength avantage over Steve, not as battle savvy, Steve has the SHIELD...it not as easy as you think.

Beast is 40-ton, but everything else holds true.

Originally posted by roughrider
When did he take hit s from Juggernaut - in his class 100 days years ago? He a 2-toner, marginal strength avantage over Steve, not as battle savvy, Steve has the SHIELD...it not as easy as you think. First of all only GS and apparently you think Beast is a two tonner. Secondly the versus forum isn't about who could win through some random Cap-slanting scenario that you make up. It's who's more likely to win. Beast is more likely to win in a fight, he has more ways to win and he'd win more often than not out of ten.
Originally posted by roughrider
Steve has the SHIELD...it not as easy as you think. Ooooh... Cap has officially joined the cast of BS Comics. Cap has his shield has become the crux of an argument. "Cap has his shield." = "Batman has his belt." = "Wolverine has a healing factor."

Originally posted by roughrider
When did he take hit s from Juggernaut - in his class 100 days years ago? He a 2-toner, marginal strength avantage over Steve, not as battle savvy, Steve has the SHIELD...it not as easy as you think.

Um. No. When he was a teenager. And hundreds of other times they fought...

The SHIELD will be removed...with Steve's arm. Jesus Christ. It's not Crazy Clued on like Thor's Hammer.

Originally posted by Draco69
Um. No. When he was a teenager. And hundreds of other times they fought...

The SHIELD will be removed...with Steve's arm. Jesus Christ. It's not Crazy Clued on like Thor's Hammer.

These debates are fun, aren't they?
We'll talk more later.

Actually, Steve's shield is made of Vibranium. That's why he can stop blasts that have more force then a 40-ton train and not even bruise his arm--because the shield ABSORBS all that force. So Beast can knock against it all he likes, it's not going anywhere.

Btw, Cap still has his energy shield. It fans out of his left glove. He can also turn it into an energy quarterstaff. So much for lack of weapons.

Originally posted by Piedmon
Actually, Steve's shield is made of Vibranium. That's why he can stop blasts that have more force then a 40-ton train and not even bruise his arm--because the shield ABSORBS all that force. So Beast can knock against it all he likes, it's not going anywhere.

And being a SCIENTIST whose studied Steve's shield he KNOWS that. So he'll use his claws to either remove the hand holding the shield or the holster. Whichever is more easier for Hank.

Originally posted by Piedmon
Btw, Cap still has his energy shield. It fans out of his left glove. He can also turn it into an energy quarterstaff. So much for lack of weapons.

Thank you.

Originally posted by Piedmon
Btw, Cap still has his energy shield. It fans out of his left glove. He can also turn it into an energy quarterstaff. So much for lack of weapons.

He doesn't have his energy shield. He gave that up as soon as he got the real shield back.

And if he did, the Beast would simply deactivate it with his own Shi'ar tech.

Sigh.

Beast wins this fight, at least 9/10 times.

I think Cap is great, but not against this kind of character. Beast really would just bounce around him, not being hit in the slightest, while he just hits Cap with a barrage of blows. Then of course there's the whole neck-snapping thing that Beast could SO easily do.

Beast has this fight in the bag.

Boy am I surprised at the responses.

1) Lot's of people worship Captain America's fighting ability because he comes out on top in his own stories and Avenger's stories against impossible odds. I don't think this originates from pure fanboyism.

The guy can take it and dish it. Fighting off hundreds of soldiers armed with all sorts of weaponry (every other issue of Captain America), fighting a guy who can lift 30-50 tons like the Wrecker (many Avenger's storylines) or Loki's subordinates (even his son Fenris in the Ragnarok storyline that concluded Thor),... hell he could kick the crap out of a lot of people because he's just a tactical fighting genius. Although you could say Beast beats him in every stat like strength, speed, agility, intelligence; Cap's tactics always win out at the end of the day. People usually only get the better of him when he's surprised or overwhelmed. And I don't think the Beast could do either. Cap would just find a way, he'd feint with a jumpkick to get Beast off the ground into a vertical leap and then before Beast lands, Cap would discover the right throwing vector of his shield so that it bounces off 3-4 times in that Danger Room before smacking Beast in the back of the head or in a limb disabling him.

2) Some might say Beast would catch his jumpkick but Cap fights just as well in close and would probably jab his throat or hit a pressure point. People might say Beast could simply dodge the ricocheting shield since Beast is himself, I suppose a near genius intellect. But I think only Reed Richard's level genius can accurately predict in the heat of battle those precise angles (Richards fights a Wizard psi-construct in Onslaught and bounces around at precise angles to smoosh him even at high rate of speed). And what's to stop Beast from doing all these things to Cap? He's just not as good a fighter and even if he were, Cap would counter it. He just exhibits that kind of tactical genius all the time. Guy would use Beast's strength against him like he always does and I doubt Beast's agility is great enough to overwhelm Cap. I doubt even Spider-man's agility could overwhelm Cap on it's own. Besides, Beast is a big doodoo head monkey. :P

Beast 8/10

Simply putBeast possese every single physical advantage over Captain America, I don't think anyone can argue otherwise.

Fighting ability, in this regard Captain America edges out beast. Not because of more skll but more formal training, where as Beast generally relies on his increased abilities.

Experience, more or less the same. I know that Cap has been fighting for longer but does anyone here really thing he has gone through that much more interms of super powered opponents than Beast. The X-men have faced as manyand as powerful challlenges as the avengers have.

Tactics, Cap might be considered a tactical genius however that advantage is almost completly nullified by this opponent. See not only is beast an Avenger but he knows Captain Amaerica's abilites as well as anyone. He understands the properties of the sheild and he knows how to watch out for Cap's little tricks. Meaning that physicall abilities are going to play a much larger role in this fight than mental ones.

Why Cap loses? Cap was beaten by Wonderman. He feinted to make cap guard then he simply grabbed the sheild and slammed Cap into the dirt for the K.O. Wonderman is no tactical genius but he is much stronger than Cap and he understands his fighting style, same thing with beast. Cap has no real surprises for beast.

This isn't to say that Cap can't win (I'm sure some one will be allong shortly to say "Dude, Cap always wins he will find a away!!!" just that the tables are stacked against him and in order for him to get a mojority win people have to start throwing him bones, by adding things to the scenerio to make him win.

Originally posted by Warmonger
Beast 8/10

Simply putBeast possese every single physical advantage over Captain America, I don't think anyone can argue otherwise.

Fighting ability, in this regard Captain America edges out beast. Not because of more skll but more formal training, where as Beast generally relies on his increased abilities.

Experience, more or less the same. I know that Cap has been fighting for longer but does anyone here really thing he has gone through that much more interms of super powered opponents than Beast. The X-men have faced as manyand as powerful challlenges as the avengers have.

Tactics, Cap might be considered a tactical genius however that advantage is almost completly nullified by this opponent. See not only is beast an Avenger but he knows Captain Amaerica's abilites as well as anyone. He understands the properties of the sheild and he knows how to watch out for Cap's little tricks. Meaning that physicall abilities are going to play a much larger role in this fight than mental ones.

Why Cap loses? Cap was beaten by Wonderman. He feinted to make cap guard then he simply grabbed the sheild and slammed Cap into the dirt for the K.O. Wonderman is no tactical genius but he is much stronger than Cap and he understands his fighting style, same thing with beast. Cap has no real surprises for beast.

This isn't to say that Cap can't win (I'm sure some one will be allong shortly to say "Dude, Cap always wins he will find a away!!!" just that the tables are stacked against him and in order for him to get a mojority win people have to start throwing him bones, by adding things to the scenerio to make him win.

Thank you, Warmonger. Couldn't have said it better myself.

i might just give this to the great captain.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
i might just give this to the great captain.

You might have to give it to him, lord knows that he couldn't take it on his own.

Indeed, KharmaDog.

I still don't understand this at all. Let's take a comparitive look over at the DC universe. Batman vs Bane. I mean... does anyone think even when Bane outdoes Batman in physical stat scenarios, that Bane could beat Batman 8/10 or 7/10 like you guys are saying is the case with Cap vs Beast?

Additionally, Wonderman has the capability to overwhelm Cap which I've conceded is one of 2 ways to take Cap down. His strength is probably at least class 9. Beast is nowhere near that figure in any of his stats.

Secondly, just take at recent books like Astonishing X-Men and Wolverine. Beast fights Wolverine on two occasions, the first instance ending before it could pan out with neither side looking definitevly overpowering and the second having Beast being put down like a mangy mutt with one deft move. You saying Cap couldn't do the same? I don't believe that in the slightest and considering that Cap has fought guys more powerful than Beast and won and with more powers than Beast and has won, I don't see how he Beast could take him down even at all. Soe examples being ones I've mentioned before, another one I can think of right off the bat when he basically beats up Baron Blood who is superhuman in his own right and even Atlanteans like Hannah in the somewhat recent "ice" storyline in Cap. She's an elite guard of Namor and she can't keep up with Cap in the gym during acrobaticv exercises.

Face it guys, Cap is just too good to be taken down by the likes of someone like Beast. Spider-man is a better bet with his increased stats and abilities and even I think that's not guaranteed.

Thats all veery interesting but really what does Cap bring to the table. Years of fighting experince, an unbreakable sheld that he can toss pretty accurately and powerfully, extemely high stamina and great fighting skills. Oh and a lot fo heart.

But it doesn't seem to be enought o beat Beast....

Beast while he hasn't been fighting as long as Captain America has been fighting and training for a very long time. He trains almost as much as Cpatain America does, however he is physically superior to Captain America in pretty much every way, save for maybe stamina. So Cap's experience edge gets cut pretty siggnificantly, how many villinas do the Avengers fight that the X-Men couldn't take on as well?

Sheild: He will never hit beast with that thing period. Beast can dodge gunfire and blasts from guys like Cyclops who are just as accurate as Cap while taking a nap. Also Beast knows that the sheild bounces of of things so Cap isn't going to get him with that old trick. Also it would be a simple matter for Beast to merely grasp the shild and body slam Cap much like Wonderman did. Sure beast isn't a class 90 but he is about a 10 I belive, however as far as Cap is concerend the difference is entirley negligable. Does it make a differnce wheter bEast can lift 10,000 pounds or 180,000, when it comes to Cap's 230 pound ass it s still ike body lsamming a two year old. Even if Cap sin't unconscious, he would still be dazed and have the wind knocked out of him easily allowing beast to get the K.O.

As for fighting skills, sure Captain America has better fighting skills. If Beast were to try to have a kind of fist fight with Cap he might very well lose, but Beast knows what Cap is capable of so isnstead he would use his agility and reflexesto run circles around Cap and maybe dash in for a heavy strike or two simply to wear Cap down. As well as avoid or evencatch his sheild if he throws it. Also Wolverine should by alrights beat Cap too. I mean Cap has trouble with Batroc the Leaper.

Finaly there is heart. Or is there? Heart is not an actual attribute that means anythign in these fights. Heart is simply the editorial backdoor, to give outclassed people a fighting chance.

In a comic book Cap woudl be placed ina scenerio that would allow him to utilize something to get the win. There is no stated scenerio so by default its a featureless arena.

I like Captain America, he is a cool character but Beast will rip him apart limb by limb............

it's a good fight.
i'll give beast a slight edge.....6/10.

Y'know I just can't let this go... so as I was sifting through some comics, I just picked up a couple of things I thought might shed some light onto how much better Cap is than Beast. Mind you, I had like dozens of examples, but here's a few...

Can Beast destroy a Sentinel by himself? Maybe... but I think he'd get squished more often than not.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Y'know I just can't let this go... so as I was sifting through some comics, I just picked up a couple of things I thought might shed some light onto how much better Cap is than Beast. Mind you, I had like dozens of examples, but here's a few...

Can Beast destroy a Sentinel by himself? Maybe... but I think he'd get squished more often than not.
I unnoe, wolverine has gutted tons of those things by himself....

Lady Deathstrike may not be as strong as Beast, but is she as ferocious and as skilled as a feral Beast? I think so. I would even say, she would win against Beast in a fight very handily... Cap doesn't even get tagged...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Lady Deathstrike may not be as strong as Beast, but is she as ferocious and as skilled as a feral Beast? I think so. I would even say, she would win against Beast in a fight very handily... Cap doesn't even get tagged...
too bad 1 shot from beast would leave her unconciouss.

I don't think Beast could take on a Skrull either... Cap does quite handily though...

Could Cap handle Beast's strength? Sure he could...

Beast is ok... but this version of Danger didn't have any hard light control or crap. You think Cap couldn't do this to Danger? Cap could do this to Danger and make a damn sandwich!

Besides the fact that beat has fast enough reflexes to dodge caps sheild, is is faster,stronger,more durable,more agile, and has claws and fangs....if he wants to he kills cap, but will he actually lose that much control?

Originally posted by King KAM
Besides the fact that beat has fast enough reflexes to dodge caps sheild, is is faster,stronger,more durable,more agile, and has claws and fangs....if he wants to he kills cap, but will he actually lose that much control? Whole lotta good it did ole McCoy in this fight... If Wolvie can do it in one deft move, so can Cap!

Yea, I think not.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=9/25116512697.gif&s=x4
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=9/25116524736.gif&s=x4
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=9/25116544370.gif&s=x4
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=9/25116553235.gif&s=x4

Beast will rip him in half.

I scanned a part of that fight already and pointed out that Danger was obviously not at the same strength as she was during the fight in the Mansion, so what does that prove? And what are the counters to the posts that I made? Wolvie took Beast down in one move and I contend that Cap can probably do the same. Cap can destroy a Sentinel, take down lady Deathstrike, beat a Skrull without a sweat and make a guy as strong as Thunderstrike look foolish.

If physical stats were the end all be all of this vs forum or of any comics, then nobody in their right mind would ever think Batman could take a single fight against Superman. And this particular thread's fight is nowhere near that kind of disparity.

While your scan makes a decent case for Wolvie vs Beast, it doesn't do anything for this match.

Two, we have to take your word for it that Wolvie took Beast down in one move, you only posted one page of the fight, maybe you should at leat post the intro to the fight.

Beast is faster and stronger than Lady Deathstrike as well, and he is a lot more familiar with Cap's fighting style.

Yes Beast could take down a Sentinel its one of the things the X-Men train for.

I agree that physical abilities are the be all and end all, but as I explained above the less tangible qualities that Cap posses don't give him any definiate edge.

Also to me a fight thread is never really about who can beat who. It is about who posses which advantage, over his opponent. Beast possess quite a large amount of advantages over Cap. He doesn't win all the time but the odds are in his favor. If you were a vegas bookie and people wanted you to pick a winner, would you tell them that "Cap has a heart of Gold!" or "Cap can beat such and such"? No you would take an unbiased appraisal at the two characters and see that Beast has to work less to win than Captain America does. Then you would give him odds. Which is why I said Beast 8/10.

Sure Cap could win but the odds favor Beast.

beast is better in almsot every way ecpt in fighting skill but it depends on what beat old beats would deffently lsoe but new mroe animal like one I think would have a better chance of winning im not sure cuz captain is captain he seem to hold his own vs any one

Actually, I'd even give more odds to the classic, more ape-like Beast. I mean, he's awesome right now, but I preferred him SO much more as the ape-like Beast. I think he was just a better fighter and such. And maybe even more agile.

I think Classic Beast would rock Cap even harder than current Beast.

naw actauly all of beast abilties were up graded thou I like classic betetr he slower weaker and a worse fight beast has neevr been a very good fighter skill wise . the new animal one is more ruthless when he lets him self go.

Originally posted by wolverine8888
naw actauly all of beast abilties were up graded thou I like classic betetr he slower weaker and a worse fight beast has neevr been a very good fighter skill wise . the new animal one is more ruthless when he lets him self go.

No way, dude. Beast is a top notch fighter. He's not up in the ranks of Captain America, but he's a superb hand to hand fighter. Especially when he was ape-like I believe. Now he's just stronger and faster, and has the ability to go even more feral than before. I agree that he's still really cool, but I still think the Classic Version had what it took to beat him.

Avenger beast was the coolest. When he was just womanizing and boozing it up with Wonderman all the time. Carefree and fun loving.

Here's to hoping HoM changes him back into monkey beast.

Originally posted by 8bitChris
Avenger beast was the coolest. When he was just womanizing and boozing it up with Wonderman all the time. Carefree and fun loving.

Here's to hoping HoM changes him back into monkey beast.

Yes! Cheers, my friend. May ape-Beast return to us as soon as possible!

Originally posted by Warmonger
While your scan makes a decent case for Wolvie vs Beast, it doesn't do anything for this match.

Two, we have to take your word for it that Wolvie took Beast down in one move, you only posted one page of the fight, maybe you should at leat post the intro to the fight.That is the beginning and end of McCoy's involvement during the conclusion of Enemy of the State. He lunges at Wolvie and Logan puts him down in two panels.

And I still don't see how everyone can dismiss that scan. I mean, we haven't seen Beast in action much since he's taken this form. He gets rocked by Cassandra Nova, fights Danger... and yeah. But here you have a clear cut recent example of how he would fare against somebody like Wolverine. So, isn't it reasonable to compare Wolvie and Cap? Cap is as strong (if not stronger), as fast (if not faster), and possesses as much fighting prowess (if not more)... and yet... we can give Wolvie the benefit of the doubt and not pass the above fight in question to PIS, but it would be preposterous to even compare this to how Cap can and would fare. Not a single person would make such a comparison... In fact, most people dismiss it as not 'applicable.'

It just really astounds me. The guy is held up on a high pedestal by not just fans, but writers also and is pretty much the '2nd coming' within the pages of comic books. I mean, when the Avengers need a plan or need to rely on somebody... they don't look to Beast, or Iron Man or Thor for that matter. They look to Cap to save the day. Ask Hawkeye or anybody else in the Marvel Universe, "Who would you rather have at your back, Beast or Cap?"

Look at HoM. Everybody is downed by the fact that Cap is too old in the new reality to help. You see anybody asking for Hank McCoy? I for one, can't wait to see how that works out, because Layla clearly wakes Cap's mind when told not to by Frost. No spoilers please, I want to see it for myself. Bah humbug! The old soldier is ashamed of you! >:P

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That is the beginning and end of McCoy's involvement during the conclusion of Enemy of the State. He lunges at Wolvie and Logan puts him down in two panels.

I don't know that from the scan, from all I can see Beast triped and landed on him. . Also it looks like Wolverine is teleporting since when did he start doing that?



No its not really reasonable to Compare Wolvie and Cap because they are two different people, also Wolverine seemed to have powers such as teleporting, that he has never displayed before. And like I said I see no "move" it just looks like he is laying on him. Wolverine and Captain America bring two wholey different sets of weapons to a fight.



He is held up on a high pedastal, and if a fight were written between Beast and Cap, you can bet Cap would win. However thats not what we're dealing with here. What the purpose of this thread is, is to debate who would win if they were written by and unbiased opinion, without respect to status at all. Lets put it like this, if Batman and Superman fought, who do you think would win? Belive it or not its not the no brainer you think it would be. There would people on here arguing that Batman can still win, but do you think thats a process of being reasoanble, and taking an appraisal of their abilities, or due to the fact that Batman has aquired such a massive fan base people just think that Batman naturally wins? And yes the disparity between the two is not so great thats why I didn't give Beast 10/10.

Also when it comes to leading a group into battle Captain America is probably one of the finest people you can call on, certainly not Hank McCoy. However when a deadly flesh eating disease, plagues New York, or you need someone to reverse engineer a gentic mutation, what is Captain America going to do? Say "God Bless America"? No he would be almost no where on the list of people you would call but you better belive Beast would be in the top 5.



Who is down, the comic characters or the fans? The characters certainly don't miss him they don't even know him. This is the first I've heard anyone make more than a passing remark about Cap's state.

Originally posted by Warmonger
I don't know that from the scan, from all I can see Beast triped and landed on him. . Also it looks like Wolverine is teleporting since when did he start doing that? I doubt Wolvie would be thinking, "He's down" if Beast tripped over himself. I'm pretty sure you could interpret that panel as Wolvie partially dodging Beast's lunge and shoulder checking or body checking his chest area and knocking the wind from him. I also see a lil blood splatter, but none of the claws have blood on em and later in the issue, SHIELD agents only verify that Havok has lacerations. Nobody else. So I think its safe to assume, one deft move followed by a clever quip, "Bad Beast! Daddy have to smack!"
Originally posted by Warmonger
No its not really reasonable to Compare Wolvie and Cap because they are two different people, also Wolverine seemed to have powers such as teleporting, that he has never displayed before. And like I said I see no "move" it just looks like he is laying on him. Wolverine and Captain America bring two wholey different sets of weapons to a fight.Yet people, have been posting what Beast has done to Danger to prove he could do it to Cap and that is different how? >.>
Originally posted by Warmonger
Also when it comes to leading a group into battle Captain America is probably one of the finest people you can call on, certainly not Hank McCoy. However when a deadly flesh eating disease, plagues New York, or you need someone to reverse engineer a gentic mutation, what is Captain America going to do? Say "God Bless America"? No he would be almost no where on the list of people you would call but you better belive Beast would be in the top 5. I give you this argument! I'm just picturing Cap handing out American flags to Legacy virus victims. LOL!
Originally posted by Warmonger
Who is down, the comic characters or the fans? The characters certainly don't miss him they don't even know him. This is the first I've heard anyone make more than a passing remark about Cap's state. Wolverine says it himself in reply to Emma Frost's comment about him being useless as an old guy. Logan says, "Too bad. We coulda used him." Then of course, Layla goes ahead and undoes it anyway. Like I said, I can't wait to see how that pans out! NO SPOILERS! I won't be at my comic shop for a while!

Beast wins really prob. without making Cap look to foolish.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That is the beginning and end of McCoy's involvement during the conclusion of Enemy of the State. He lunges at Wolvie and Logan puts him down in two panels.

And I still don't see how everyone can dismiss that scan. I mean, we haven't seen Beast in action much since he's taken this form. He gets rocked by Cassandra Nova, fights Danger... and yeah. But here you have a clear cut recent example of how he would fare against somebody like Wolverine. So, isn't it reasonable to compare Wolvie and Cap? Cap is as strong (if not stronger), as fast (if not faster), and possesses as much fighting prowess (if not more)... and yet... we can give Wolvie the benefit of the doubt and not pass the above fight in question to PIS, but it would be preposterous to even compare this to how Cap can and would fare. Not a single person would make such a comparison... In fact, most people dismiss it as not 'applicable.'

It just really astounds me. The guy is held up on a high pedestal by not just fans, but writers also and is pretty much the '2nd coming' within the pages of comic books. I mean, when the Avengers need a plan or need to rely on somebody... they don't look to Beast, or Iron Man or Thor for that matter. They look to Cap to save the day. Ask Hawkeye or anybody else in the Marvel Universe, "Who would you rather have at your back, Beast or Cap?"

Look at HoM. Everybody is downed by the fact that Cap is too old in the new reality to help. You see anybody asking for Hank McCoy? I for one, can't wait to see how that works out, because Layla clearly wakes Cap's mind when told not to by Frost. No spoilers please, I want to see it for myself. Bah humbug! The old soldier is ashamed of you! >:P


hey next time u state some thing make sure it correct
superhuman>peakhuman
wolverine is superhuman
captain peak human
wolverine is better in all those abilities u mentioned in some of the he a good amount better

Originally posted by wolverine8888
hey next time u state some thing make sure it correct
superhuman>peakhuman
wolverine is superhuman
captain peak human
wolverine is better in all those abilities u mentioned in some of the he a good amount better I've come back to beat this dead horse. Been gone awhile because some people spoil things and I hadn't been able to pick up my comics for 3-4 weeks. But I just picked up my fill of comics this past weekend, so I'll be tracking down all of my past arguments.

Does Wolverine have superhuman strength or speed? Exactly what class are we talking about here? If there is a big difference between Wolvie's and Cap's strength and speed, exactly how vast is it?

In the end, after you answer these questions, how does this detract from my argument? Are you now saying that because Cap can't run as fast as Wolverine, that this difference is the reason why Wolverine can lay down Beast but Cap can't? I'd just like clarification before I make a rebuttal.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Whether he's 2 or 40 ^this is still entirely plausible assuming CIS is off. Btw everyone's neglected to mention Beast has a pretty good healing factor.

I believe it's only twice human speed.

wolverine is peak human to enhanced human in strength...certainly not superhumn though.

When beast got sliced across his abs by Wolverine he mentioned that its a little known fact that he heals twice as fast as a human...not fast enough to make any difference DURING the fight.

And Cap would own the beast...he's simply too good a fighter, too experienced, and too central a character...in a comic book, Cap would crush beast in less than 3 panels.

Originally posted by Draco69
And why can't Beast simply dodge the shield and CATCH it with his feet? Or break the arm holding the shield?

actauly in there first fight beast did catch capts shield with his feet. then captain went after scot and beat scot with no shield.

no wolverine and captian run at about same speed. but wolverine agi,lity and reflex are a good deal higher.

Nah, I think Beast stands quite a good chance. He knows how Cap fights, having fought alongside him for years. His agility will definitely tip the scales as well. Cap will never hit him with that shield unless Beast is tied up to a light pole. And if Cap tries and blocks an attack, Beast can just grab the shield and body slam Cap.

An opponent like Beast is just too difficult for someone like Cap to defeat. ESPECIALLY since Beast doesn't toy around/showboat. Showboating has been the downfall for many uber-powerful villians that lower-leveled heroes have defeated.

When you put it that way, then I will have to concede that Beast would be a tough fight. It is true that they have fought alongside each other for a while. However, I certainly think its possible for him to tag Beast with a shield throw. Of course, a straight throw would result in Beast catching the thing. But Cap has mastered rebound throwing and even if you're superhuman, a throw with as many rebounds like this would be tough to see, let alone calculate when its coming your way and from what direction:

EDIT: Oh yeah, and after all the arguments, Cap and Beast both 5/10.

Beast.
I think he's the best fighter in marvel.
He should be the leader of the X-men for a while.
He'd prob. take the shield out of the air and hide it on Cap then bounce all over him.
Yeah...Cap gets pounded to death by his own shield by the Beast.

Originally posted by Wonder Man
Beast.
I think he's the best fighter in marvel.
He should be the leader of the X-men for a while.
He'd prob. take the shield out of the air and hide it on Cap then bounce all over him.
Yeah...Cap gets pounded to death by his own shield by the Beast.
sorry I know ur only staing ur oppion but seorusly how is beast even in top 20 best fighters in marvel

Well...Wolverine is a good fighter cause he's bearlike and Beast is because he's beastly duh. that's how.
He is at least as good as Spider-man in agility and dexterity...without the spidersense.
His intellect is great enough to equal Spider-man's spidersense though.
Now do you think that Spidy would be in the top?
Like i said before i think the top fighters are
Beast
Cap
Wolverine
Spider-man
Daredevil
Black Panther
In that order.

Beast wins.

Sorry, but Beast loses once again.

Maybe if Beast is chained to a lightpost will Captain America win.

Otherwise, Beast wins.

bump

Just a bump on this thread. It was one of my more favorite ones. Found this recently too:

Captain America will win this one

current beast??

Hmm I'm not so sure.

Originally posted by TheKahn
bump that sig is a sad joke.....

Seriously you know nothing of Cap.

Cap owned Beast already. In there second fight Cap let Beast hit him full on 3 times on purpose and took it.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0


It just really astounds me. The guy is held up on a high pedestal by not just fans, but writers also and is pretty much the '2nd coming' within the pages of comic books. I mean, when the Avengers need a plan or need to rely on somebody... they don't look to Beast, or Iron Man or Thor for that matter. They look to Cap to save the day. Ask Hawkeye or anybody else in the Marvel Universe, "Who would you rather have at your back, Beast or Cap?"

Look at HoM. Everybody is downed by the fact that Cap is too old in the new reality to help. You see anybody asking for Hank McCoy? I for one, can't wait to see how that works out, because Layla clearly wakes Cap's mind when told not to by Frost. No spoilers please, I want to see it for myself. Bah humbug! The old soldier is ashamed of you! >:P

I like this post.

First the answer to the fight.
http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capvsbeastjpg18zh.jpg


Second Cap keeping up with Beast in Agility/Speed.
http://img271.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica261p077qy.jpg

Cap has defeated stronger/faster within characters like USAgent to even bullet proof Boxers Cap has owned. Cap 8-9/10.