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no power cosmic blasts

no heat vision or freeze breath

no Mjolnir

simple and savage physical combat between these three titans

who stands among the Gods of men?

Superman, he's that bit stronger. His dials go to 11.

yeah I think Superman wins too, he has that extra gear he taps into from time to time

Thor does have the greatest experience of these three. But, under these conditions, Superman might edge out the victory. Just.

Thor doesn't seem to possess the will on the level that Superman possesses

Originally posted by masterbruce
Thor doesn't seem to possess the will on the level that Superman possesses

Thor was fighting cosmic menaces and giant foes for untold ages before Superman ever existed. He had to earn the right to carry Mjolnir. Take Mjolnir out of the picture, it's a toss up between the two. Becuase Superman might have an edge in endurance and durability, in a pure power brawl, is why I said he wins, more likely.
The Surfer isn't as used to h2h as the others; power cosmic does it most of the time for him.

I dont know, from the limited appearances of Thor that I have read, he seems to have too many faults:

1) his intelligence seems kinda low
2) he's usually a follower, not a leader
3) his emotions overtake him often

Thor has not really impressed me as much more than the requisite muscle on a team

Originally posted by masterbruce
I dont know, from the limited appearances of Thor that I have read, he seems to have too many faults:

1) his intelligence seems kinda low
2) he's usually a follower, not a leader
3) his emotions overtake him often

Thor has not really impressed me as much more than the requisite muscle on a team

Yes and No.
Thor's trouble has always been his temper and acting rashly. It's his chief weakness, along with not being the sharpest of thinkers - that's why someone as sly as Loki always hatches schemes against him, and has throwaway insults like "use what little brains you have, brother." Being proud and headstrong is what led Odin to initially banish him into the mortal form of Donald Blake; to teach him the value of patience.
The thing is, Thor is aware of his rash nature and often differs to the cool counsel of Captain America, because he knows he's a level-headed thinker, when he could assert his position as arguably the most powerful avenger. His and Cap's relationship is so much smoother than say, Superman to Batman.

It's these small flaws in character, as a weakness, that I find interesting. Much more than someone being vunerable to a hunk of green glowing rock.

Originally posted by masterbruce
I dont know, from the limited appearances of Thor that I have read, he seems to have too many faults:

1) his intelligence seems kinda low
2) he's usually a follower, not a leader
3) his emotions overtake him often

Thor has not really impressed me as much more than the requisite muscle on a team

The avengers version of Thor is a tame comparison to the one who fights on his own. It has even been discovered that Thor holds back serious amounts of power, when he fights with the Avengers. Apparently he subconsciously doesn't want to show up the other power houses such as Wonderman and Iron man.


Moondragon a very powerful ailen telepath discovered all this.

"Apparently he subconsciously doesn't want to show up the other power houses such as Wonderman and Iron man. "

Sorry, but I call that as BS rationale that comic book writers came up with to fit Thor into the team.

Think about it, because Thor is so modest he holds back his powers so that his teammates can have a much harder time in battle and get beat up by enemies, how much sense does that make?

Originally posted by masterbruce
"Apparently he subconsciously doesn't want to show up the other power houses such as Wonderman and Iron man. "

Sorry, but I call that as BS rationale that comic book writers came up with to fit Thor into the team.

Think about it, because Thor is so modest he holds back his powers so that his teammates can have a much harder time in battle and get beat up by enemies, how much sense does that make?

Do you know what Subconsciously means ?

I have to go with Thor in this one. Sufer really can't stand up to either in term of h2h and while Superman has the edge in flight and speed, I think that his thousands of years of warrior training would give his the edge against Superman. Through the hours of h2h combat more of Thor's blows would connect and eventually I think he would win. Superman's biggest weakness is his lack of realy combat training. The only example I know of the what he learned from Mongul's son while Thor has spent his light training.

i dont think thor has h2h fighting experience as much as superman

T-Money would win, but we arent talking about that version of thor, so i'd give it to Supes EASILY, hes crush them both at the same time, without much of a problem, besides the whole thor has magic part, in brute strength these dudes couldnt even take mongul.

"Apparently he subconsciously doesn't want to show up the other power houses such as Wonderman and Iron man. "

+

"Sorry, but I call that as BS rationale that comic book writers came up with to fit Thor into the team.

Think about it, because Thor is so modest he holds back his powers so that his teammates can have a much harder time in battle and get beat up by enemies, how much sense does that make"


No it doesnt. But how else would the writters give screen time to guys like Captain America and Wasp if characters like Thor always go out?

As for the fight, due to feats, experience and skills i give it to Thor.

"dont think thor has h2h fighting experience as much as superman"

Supes has less skills. And experience.

Originally posted by jacobo0o
i dont think thor has h2h fighting experience as much as superman

HELLO - he's a God around for uncounted milennia, perpetually in combat? Superman is a youngling by far.

You can just listen to Dan Jurgens, who has written both characters: Head-to-head, with Mjolnir, Thor beats Superman. Without the hammer, it's a tossup.

Originally posted by roughrider
You can just listen to Dan Jurgens, who has written both characters: Head-to-head, with Mjolnir, Thor beats Superman. Without the hammer, it's a tossup.
how bout NO

For a God who's been around for uncounted milennia, perpetually in combat, Thor sure doesn't seem like that great of a fighter

and remember quantity isnt everything

I can play bball against little kids for 20 years and still easily be a lot worse than someone who plays in college ball for 2 years

Originally posted by King KAM
how bout NO

KAM has a point.... The Thor that Jurgens created was a bit of a whimp compared to the Thor of the 70's and 80's. Until he became King Thor that is

Or you can listen to Simonson who said both Thor and Orion are stronger.

Originally posted by olympian
Or you can listen to Simonson who said both Thor and Orion are stronger.


i dont like you......

Originally posted by King KAM
i dont like you...... [/QUOTE

The truth hurts, doesn't it?
That happens in debates.

Originally posted by King KAM
i dont like you......

Thats actually breaking a fundamental law ofthe universe.... Everyone and i mean everyone likes Olympian

The cosmic truth has finally been spoken.

Originally posted by olympian
The cosmic truth has finally been spoken.

well except that guy who used to always go on about your pennis.

Originally posted by yahman
well except that guy who used to always go on about your pennis.

Someone stole his pennies? What a cheap thief!!

What can i say.

Some like me too much

Its heartbreaking when i say "no". But alas.

Originally posted by yahman
Thats actually breaking a fundamental law ofthe universe.... Everyone and i mean everyone likes Olympian
lol

Look if you read what I wrote, I ACTUALLY gave the nod to Superman here, under these conditions. But if you just want to make this a Thor-bashing thread, I'm not interested.
I state my troth.

Originally posted by roughrider
Look if you read what I wrote, I ACTUALLY gave the nod to Superman here, under these conditions. But if you just want to make this a Thor-bashing thread, I'm not interested.
I state my troth.

I merely pointed out that Jurgens Thor wasn't that powerful (N.B. not King Thor)

Originally posted by masterbruce
For a God who's been around for uncounted milennia, perpetually in combat, Thor sure doesn't seem like that great of a fighter

and remember quantity isnt everything

I can play bball against little kids for 20 years and still easily be a lot worse than someone who plays in college ball for 2 years

Maybe because you have no talent?

Originally posted by yahman
I merely pointed out that Jurgens Thor wasn't that powerful (N.B. not King Thor)

I'm referring to masterbruce, who knowledge of Thor seems very limited and wants to mudsling here.

when exactly did I mudsling?

I stated that Thor's millenia of experience might be overstated and that in itself does not amount to proving he's a better fighter

Originally posted by roughrider
Maybe because you have no talent?
that actualy was a good analogy.

Well, Thor is the Asgardian equivilent to a teenager, he isn't quite mature yet even though he is a few thousand years old. That's why it's acceptable for him to be on the Avengers.

Originally posted by long pig
Well, Thor is the Asgardian equivilent to a teenager, he isn't quite mature yet even though he is a few thousand years old. That's why it's acceptable for him to be on the Avengers.
yeah wait untill he becomes T-money

question, why is Silver Surfur in this battle anyway

Originally posted by Darth Magnevus
question, why is Silver Surfur in this battle anyway

Because...ermm
Ask masterbruce?

bump

Superman.

I say Superman wins only cause he can use speed combined with his punch's. (Thor is cooler though)

Originally posted by masterbruce
no power cosmic blasts

no heat vision or freeze breath

no Mjolnir

simple and savage physical combat between these three titans

who stands among the Gods of men?

superman every damn time...

superman 8/10 in this scenerio.

Surfer could definitely win this, if he put his mind to it.
nothing either Superman or Thor can throw at him that he can't brush off... just a question of how strong he can amp himself to be, and whether or not he has sufficient fighting nous to make it.

Surfer's durability is hideously underrated if people are discounting him in this. he may have a track record as being Thanos' punch bag but, he's come up a lot. taken down dimensional gods, stood upto Proemial Gods, gained yet more power from Galactus and this all on top of a glaze that can withstand the infinite forces within blackholes and hearts of stars as if they were nothing...

true he has pitifully few feats of raw physical power, but when he took on Hulk and the other gladiators in the arena of Sakaar, he showed quite a bit of skill and even resilience (given that he was cut off from the Power Cosmic).

Surfer,
Superman and then Thor.

Thor without Mjolnir <= an angry Savage Hulk, remember.

Surfer >>>>> a Mindless Hulk and even >>> an angry Savage Hulk

Originally posted by janus77
Surfer could definitely win this, if he put his mind to it.
nothing either Superman or Thor can throw at him that he can't brush off... just a question of how strong he can amp himself to be, and whether or not he has sufficient fighting nous to make it.

Surfer's durability is hideously underrated if people are discounting him in this. he may have a track record as being Thanos' punch bag but, he's come up a lot. taken down dimensional gods, stood upto Proemial Gods, gained yet more power from Galactus and this all on top of a glaze that can withstand the infinite forces within blackholes and hearts of stars as if they were nothing...

true he has pitifully few feats of raw physical power, but when he took on Hulk and the other gladiators in the arena of Sakaar, he showed quite a bit of skill and even resilience (given that he was cut off from the Power Cosmic).

I agree surfer by far is more durable then anyone on the battle field by a large gap but this battle just falls in superman favor. Without mjolnir I just cant see thor beating Superman more then superman beating him. That was the only reason I ever gave thor the majority over superman period. This battle falls in superman category, a physical fight and surfer is so use to using the power cosmic that that put him well below any of the people in this fight.

Im not saying that they would knock him out but he would get so overwhelmed and physically beat up that Im actually thinking that he would give up. Any of these two would curb stomp him in a physical fight and without thors hammer he would do good but he would fall in the end also because again, this is a battle that superman enjoys.

Superman 8/10

from surfer h2h display against an experienced hulk and his team i would say surfer takes this...he was beating all of them at once

Originally posted by bbrem123
from surfer h2h display against an experienced hulk and his team i would say surfer takes this...he was beating all of them at once

you do know that that hulk was holding back tremendously against surfer. He seen surfer as a friend.

Superman
Thor
Surfer

Originally posted by carver9
you do know that that hulk was holding back tremendously against surfer. He seen surfer as a friend.

no he wasnt dont make stuff up...it never once says this...all i saw was that they said they only had one shot at stoping him, and that was by distraction...hulk could not do it himself

if the hulk was holding back then y did he slam the surfer into the ground like a savage beast

Superman takes this due to having the best balance of strength, durability, and speed.

Originally posted by janus77
Surfer could definitely win this, if he put his mind to it.
nothing either Superman or Thor can throw at him that he can't brush off... just a question of how strong he can amp himself to be, and whether or not he has sufficient fighting nous to make it.

Surfer's durability is hideously underrated if people are discounting him in this. he may have a track record as being Thanos' punch bag but, he's come up a lot. taken down dimensional gods, stood upto Proemial Gods, gained yet more power from Galactus and this all on top of a glaze that can withstand the infinite forces within blackholes and hearts of stars as if they were nothing...

true he has pitifully few feats of raw physical power, but when he took on Hulk and the other gladiators in the arena of Sakaar, he showed quite a bit of skill and even resilience (given that he was cut off from the Power Cosmic).

Surfer,
Superman and then Thor.

Thor without Mjolnir <= an angry Savage Hulk, remember.

Surfer >>>>> a Mindless Hulk and even >>> an angry Savage Hulk El Oh El

silver surfer can still amp his phsical attributes to well above theres. and He already flies faster if they fight while flying.

Originally posted by llagrok
Superman
Thor
Surfer I am inclined to agree with this.
First of all, nobody brawls like Big Blue, so he's #1.
Thor comes in second because he is a warrior at heart and also an experienced brawler.

Now, while Surfer is no slouch when it comes to durability or h2h or physical strength, 1) brawling is simply not his thing; and 2) he is a pacifist at heart. I think he'd make a damn good showing, and quite possibly, he may even be least hurt by this ruckus. But I just don't see the tenacity to out-brawl two top-tier bricks. At best, I could see Surfer perhaps stalemating Thor, but only by applying ABC logic to Surfer/Thor/Hulk fights.

Could Surfer amp his way to a win? Theoretically, I suppose he could, especially if he has some breathing room. But for what it's worth, I tend to envision these fights as might actually be written in a comic, so that's why I go with these results.

I'm assuming this is classic Thor. And if it is... assuming this is supposed to be a physical brawl, is Thor not allowed to pull a Durok Buster?

Also... I had a random flash. One day... when Surfer is in a fit of rage... I'd really like to see him just grab his board and start wailing on someone with it. That'd be some sight to see in a comic...

Originally posted by psycho gundam
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9122/galactusvsjla4byxiconhowz4.th.jpg
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/6946/galactusvsjla2byxiconhole8.th.jpg
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/4894/galactusvsjla3byxiconholp4.th.jpg


these are scoobles scan's by the way.

^ In a perfect world that's how it would go.

Originally posted by Mindset
^ In a perfect world that's how it would go. superman in a hospital bed next to colossus, both of them with their hand's bent backwards.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
superman in a hospital bed next to colossus, both of them with their hand's bent backwards.
what kinda freaky shit did they get upto?

I always had my doubts about that "Super" man, too goody-goody to be real

Surfer while being considerably the most durable would probably finish last cuz of his lower H2H fighting skills. Superman has got lower H2h skills than thor but he is faster so hed win that battle.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Surfer while being considerably the most durable would probably finish last cuz of his lower H2H fighting skills. Superman has got lower H2h skills than thor but he is faster so hed win that battle.
i was thinking the same thing, but for me the only X value is the fact that the surfer can amp his strength to an unknown degree if he channels his power cosmic into his musculature the same way the champion of the universe does.

Superman almost everytime.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i was thinking the same thing, but for me the only X value is the fact that the surfer can amp his strength to an unknown degree if he channels his power cosmic into his musculature the same way the champion of the universe does.

Surfer has never amped himself to the level of Superman. He has never demonstrated the capacity to amp himself that far.

Saying he can do it because he was able to amp over Hulk, is a joke. Superman>>>>Hulk.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Surfer has never amped himself to the level of Superman. He has never demonstrated the capacity to amp himself that far.

Saying he can do it because he was able to amp over Hulk, is a joke. Superman>>>>Hulk. i never stated he has or can make his strength superman's level, i just insinuated that the level he can amp himself is unknown. and given the power source superman uses to gain power's norrin amping himself in the same manner is not completely far fetched.

Originally posted by psycho gundam


damn that was beautiful. Is that actual comic or did scooble draw this.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Surfer has never amped himself to the level of Superman. He has never demonstrated the capacity to amp himself that far.

Saying he can do it because he was able to amp over Hulk, is a joke. Superman>>>>Hulk.

I think that you typed this wrong Hulk>>>>>>>>>>Superman when it come to strength.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Surfer has never amped himself to the level of Superman. He has never demonstrated the capacity to amp himself that far.

Saying he can do it because he was able to amp over Hulk, is a joke. Superman>>>>Hulk.

When has surfer ever amped his strength level to being greater than hulk? Also superman and hulk have always been comparable strength wise and people have different opinions on it. It can be argued to death. Simply saying superman >>>>hulk just wont cut it. I can also say hulk>>>>superman. Superman still wins IMO

Superman in most appearances>>>>>Hulk in strength, but Hulk can and has amped himself beyond Superman.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Superman in most appearances>>>>>Hulk in strength, but Hulk can and has amped himself beyond Superman.

Superman straining to lift up a damn pyramid.
http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=su1lr5.jpg

Hulk one handing a space ship that was about half the size of that pyramid.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkstrength.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkstrength1.jpg

Hulk picking up something twice the size of that damn pyramid that superman is straining to pick up. The sad thing about it is that hulk threw the pyramid like it wasnt nothing but a damn baseball and destroyed a mountain with it.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkstrength3.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkstrength4.jpg

Thats just half of it, get some knowledge on hulk before claiming something. Hulk strength>>>>superman.

and none of these feats are amp feats. Would you love for me to show you a calm hulk picking up a mountain.

Superman wins.

This match is in favor of Superman.

Surfer has the speed and durability, and Thor has the strength, and durability.

But without access to their other powers this is completely and utterly Superman's game. He has the best chance of winning.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I dont know, from the limited appearances of Thor that I have read, he seems to have too many faults:

1) his intelligence seems kinda low
2) he's usually a follower, not a leader
3) his emotions overtake him often


All of the above are true =) thor can beat supes but in a pure physical situation. he will need his belt of strength.

This match obviously favors supes case you basically stripped thor and surfer of 80% of their powers and gave supes all of his minus heat vision which wont do crap to thor or surfer.

hey i got one lets strip all of the combatants of their physicall strength and super speed and lets see what happens lol.

Thor has not really impressed me as much more than the requisite muscle on a team

Originally posted by carver9
Superman straining to lift up a damn pyramid.
http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=su1lr5.jpg

what makes you think he was straining?

Originally posted by Raoul
what makes you think he was straining?

Making any noise while lifting = Straining

Originally posted by Rorschach
Making any noise while lifting = Straining



lol...

to me it looked like he was just being careful not to damage the damn thing...

Originally posted by Starscream M
when exactly did I mudsling?

I stated that Thor's millenia of experience might be overstated and that in itself does not amount to proving he's a better fighter


Ok listen. Dont go saying thors fighting experience is overated. Thor and superman have one thing in common. They are both vastly powerful in diffrent ways.

One other thing the both have in common. They can take out the most powerful of combatants then the very next day loose to a lightweight. Thor starts looseing when his brain turns off and goes into slugfest mode. But when thor is serious. Look out supes.

Superman on the other hand. is physically strong faster and more duribale. But he suffers from "Oh i have compassion for everyone syndrome" this gets him in trouble alot. supes going all out. Thats scary in a PHYSICAL confrontation.


Superman and thor are both excellent fighters. Just superman is more of a pure brawler where as thor is a half brawler and spell caster too. The only way for thor to surpass supes in strength is to use his belt of strength.


supes wins more often then thor or surfer under theses circumstances.

Originally posted by Rorschach
Making any noise while lifting = Straining

So then sentry was not having trouble lifting the helicarrier? lol

Originally posted by Stormbreaker
So then sentry was not having trouble lifting the helicarrier?

Exactly.

Originally posted by Stormbreaker
So then sentry was not having trouble lifting the helicarrier? lol

except the fact that he was being pushed down, and needed danvers and simon to help, no, no trouble at all...

Originally posted by Raoul
except the fact that he was being pushed down, and needed danvers and simon to help, no, no trouble at all... I wonder how much a hellicarrier weighs...

Originally posted by Raoul
what makes you think he was straining?

I guess you dont see the word "hnnnh" and his eyes squinching like he's straining. That was a easy feat for him and the thing about it was that he was being aided by the gls when flying through space. He was straining, no question ask. Then the pyramid was on his back and veins was popping out of his neck.

yea but lifting something from a stationary point is much easier then stopping say the same object from falling at a fast rate

Originally posted by carver9
I guess you dont see the word "hnnnh" and his eyes squinching like he's straining. That was a easy feat for him and the thing about it was that he was being aided by the gls when flying through space. He was straining, no question ask. Then the pyramid was on his back and veins was popping out of his neck.

or he was just being careful... the thing wasnt just sitting on the ground, it would have had foundations that it needed to be broken from, and he didnt want j'onn's burial tomb to fall apart in his hands did he...

besides, he has plenty of feats far greater...

Originally posted by bbrem123
yea but lifting something from a stationary point is much easier then stopping say the same object from falling at a fast rate

true, but again, its the sentry...

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Surfer has never amped himself to the level of Superman. He has never demonstrated the capacity to amp himself that far.

Saying he can do it because he was able to amp over Hulk, is a joke. Superman>>>>Hulk.

hulk is by far the best h2h character out there right now, when he gets goin u cant stop him...wwh is a beast and saying that he is less then superman in that department is just foolish

so surfer takes this becuase of his showing vs the hulk

Please get back on topic everybody. Thanks.

Originally posted by Raoul
or he was just being careful... the thing wasnt just sitting on the ground, it would have had foundations that it needed to be broken from, and he didnt want j'onn's burial tomb to fall apart in his hands did he...

besides, he has plenty of feats far greater...



true, but again, its the sentry...



From the scan alone it show a green glow around his body and the gl's body so the gl's aided him in doing that feat.



and where are you getting this from, was this something that was said in the comic or is it something that you just added into it. He was straining and if the hulk made the same impressions that superman while lifting that space ship one handed then he would have been straining also. If it was a easy feat for him there wouldnt need to be a reason for him to say "hnnh" while picking up something. Was this something that hulk said when he was lifting that mountain in secret wars.



Tell me these feats that dont consider him flying or being out of space where there is no gravity.

Originally posted by Badabing
Please get back on topic everybody. Thanks.

Will do.

Originally posted by Badabing
Please get back on topic everybody. Thanks.

Will do.

Superman win 8/10

Originally posted by carver9
From the scan alone it show a green glow around his body and the gl's body so the gl's aided him in doing that feat.



and where are you getting this from, was this something that was said in the comic or is it something that you just added into it. He was straining and if the hulk made the same impressions that superman while lifting that space ship one handed then he would have been straining also. If it was a easy feat for him there wouldnt need to be a reason for him to say "hnnh" while picking up something. Was this something that hulk said when he was lifting that mountain in secret wars.



Tell me these feats that dont consider him flying or being out of space where there is no gravity. Carver, I asked nicely above for everyone to get back to the topic. Take your discussion to another thread. It's not "our" responsibly to prove anything especially when it's common knowledge for anyone who's picked up a JLA or Superman comic. Look in the respect thread for strength feats. Also, Hulk isn't part of this thread.

Superman.

Originally posted by Badabing
Carver, I asked nicely above for everyone to get back to the topic. Take your discussion to another thread. It's not "our" responsibly to prove anything especially when it's common knowledge for anyone who's picked up a JLA or Superman comic. Look in the respect thread for strength feats. Also, Hulk isn't part of this thread.

My bad, I didnt read your post until my post went through. If you can, delete my response before someone reply to it.

Thanks.

Originally posted by batdude123
Superman.

Totally agree, superman at least 8or9/10. This isnt even a good fight.

Originally posted by carver9
Totally agree, superman at least 8or9/10. This isnt even a good fight.

shock

Originally posted by carver9
Superman straining to lift up a damn pyramid.
http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=su1lr5.jpg

Hulk one handing a space ship that was about half the size of that pyramid.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkstrength.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkstrength1.jpg

Hulk picking up something twice the size of that damn pyramid that superman is straining to pick up. The sad thing about it is that hulk threw the pyramid like it wasnt nothing but a damn baseball and destroyed a mountain with it.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkstrength3.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkstrength4.jpg

Thats just half of it, get some knowledge on hulk before claiming something. Hulk strength>>>>superman.

and none of these feats are amp feats. Would you love for me to show you a calm hulk picking up a mountain. I doubt the ship was half the size of that pyramid that Superman lifted. And it's hard to see how big the chunk of rock was that he threw at the conclusion of 'Planet Hulk.' But the fact that it wrecked half a mountain in the far distance IS telling. I never saw that until you pointed it out.
Originally posted by Starscream M
I wonder how much a hellicarrier weighs... A whole lot. But it's irrelevant. Marvel characters don't use tactile kinesis to assist their super strong heroes in lifting objects like that. If Sentry brought his full strength on it, he would have accidentally left a Sentry sized hole in the hull and the helicarrier would have still fallen.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

A whole lot. But it's irrelevant. Marvel characters don't use tactile kinesis to assist their super strong heroes in lifting objects like that. If Sentry brought his full strength on it, he would have accidentally left a Sentry sized hole in the hull and the helicarrier would have still fallen.

haha good one.


haven't guys in marvel done logically impossible things like lifting a building without it breaking apart?

^ Maybe you're referring to the only known example of tactile kinesis in a classic Byrne issue of Fantastic Four. At least, it's the only known example I can think of. That ability was never fully explained but any suggestion that it was tactile kinesis has been retconned. I explained this in another thread:
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Marvel comics don't use tactile kinesis to justify supporting things that wouldn't support their own weight. Check these scans out. Gladiator has strength to break planets apart and arguably even used to have tactile kinesis:

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/2315/gladiatorvsfantasticfour064ik.jpg

Well check out a much more current Gladiator trying to stop a plane from crashing and you let me know what you think. Let me spell it out for you in his own words, "If I push any harder, the stress will rip the plane to shreds!" Marvel doesn't utilize tactile kinesis, at least, not anymore:

http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/9087/vsglads2e1ec0vy.jpg
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/2328/vsglads2f1mk7wd.jpgI cannot, in all my years of reading Marvel comics... think of any other instance other than the retconned Baxter Building feat where tactile kinesis might have been employed. Ever. Savage Hulk only braced against the weight of a mountain in 'Secret Wars.' Spiderman only braced part of Daily Bugle through a support beam. In 'Secret Wars II,' a naive Beyonder turned Iron Fist's and Powerman's Heroes For Hire building into solid gold. This resulted in it's collapse under it's own weight.

There are plenty of instances where large objects collapse or crumple under their own weight in Marvel comics. Attempting to belittle Sentry's strength when Marvel doesn't employ tactile kinesis is ignorant. Once again, the Baxter Building feat appears to be the sole tactile kinesis feat and is handily retconned. Even if someone could find another example (by all means, try to, I'd genuinely be interested in seeing it), I can confidently say that there are no tactile kinesis feats AFTER the above Thor vs. Gladiator comic was published. And you're not going to see something like the following scan anytime soon in any Marvel comic. Here, we got Superman holding up half a building. Do you know what his hands are bracing against to support all that weight? Glass window panes.

Originally posted by Raoul
or he was just being careful... the thing wasnt just sitting on the ground, it would have had foundations that it needed to be broken from, and he didnt want j'onn's burial tomb to fall apart in his hands did he...

besides, he has plenty of feats far greater...



true, but again, its the sentry... 7iy3nui-aaI

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Maybe you're referring to the only known example of tactile kinesis in a classic Byrne issue of Fantastic Four. At least, it's the only known example I can think of. That ability was never fully explained but any suggestion that it was tactile kinesis has been retconned. I explained this in another thread:
I cannot, in all my years of reading Marvel comics... think of any other instance other than the retconned Baxter Building feat where tactile kinesis might have been employed. Ever. Savage Hulk only braced against the weight of a mountain in 'Secret Wars.' Spiderman only braced part of Daily Bugle through a support beam. In 'Secret Wars II,' a naive Beyonder turned Iron Fist's and Powerman's Heroes For Hire building into solid gold. This resulted in it's collapse under it's own weight.

There are plenty of instances where large objects collapse or crumple under their own weight in Marvel comics. Attempting to belittle Sentry's strength when Marvel doesn't employ tactile kinesis is ignorant. Once again, the Baxter Building feat appears to be the sole tactile kinesis feat and is handily retconned. Even if someone could find another example (by all means, try to, I'd genuinely be interested in seeing it), I can confidently say that there are no tactile kinesis feats AFTER the above Thor vs. Gladiator comic was published. And you're not going to see something like the following scan anytime soon in any Marvel comic. Here, we got Superman holding up half a building. Do you know what his hands are bracing against to support all that weight? Glass window panes.

Wow, good post.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I doubt the ship was half the size of that pyramid that Superman lifted. And it's hard to see how big the chunk of rock was that he threw at the conclusion of 'Planet Hulk.' But the fact that it wrecked half a mountain in the far distance IS telling. I never saw that until you pointed it out.
A whole lot. But it's irrelevant. Marvel characters don't use tactile kinesis to assist their super strong heroes in lifting objects like that. If Sentry brought his full strength on it, he would have accidentally left a Sentry sized hole in the hull and the helicarrier would have still fallen.

If that rock that hulk chunked at the mountain destroyed it, it had to be at least twice the size of that pyramid unless you think a pyramid can destroy a mountain.

I agree, the ship wasnt half the size of the pyramid but it had to weigh thousands of tons and hulk one handed it. But the mods told me to stay off this subject and I actually got a warning so PLEASE dont respond back to my post.

Originally posted by carver9
so PLEASE dont respond back to my post.

Originally posted by carver9
If that rock that hulk chunked at the mountain destroyed it, it had to be at least twice the size of that pyramid unless you think a pyramid can destroy a mountain.
in comics, anything is possible

Originally posted by Starscream M
in comics, anything is possible

So spiderman can hold a planet together like hulk did.

Originally posted by carver9
If that rock that hulk chunked at the mountain destroyed it, it had to be at least twice the size of that pyramid unless you think a pyramid can destroy a mountain.

I agree, the ship wasnt half the size of the pyramid but it had to weigh thousands of tons and hulk one handed it. But the mods told me to stay off this subject and I actually got a warning so PLEASE dont respond back to my post.



we just didnt want the thread to turn into a supes v hulk thread, thats all...

Originally posted by carver9
So spiderman can hold a planet together like hulk did. stop being ridiculous...

my point was that things in comics don't necessarily comport to realworld science...aka a pyramid might smash a mountain in comics

I didn't mean to imply that there was no logic at all in comics...aka spiderman doing hulk level feats

Originally posted by Raoul


we just didnt want the thread to turn into a supes v hulk thread, thats all...

I understand that and I agree with it, thats why I told him not to respond.

Originally posted by Starscream M
stop being ridiculous...

my point was that things in comics don't necessarily comport to realworld science...aka a pyramid might smash a mountain in comics

I didn't mean to imply that there was no logic at all in comics...aka spiderman doing hulk level feats

I understand that but I dont think that the writers would be fool enough to have a pyramid destroying a mountain, that would just be plain ridiculous. I have never seen something like that happen in comics.

Originally posted by carver9
I understand that but I dont think that the writers would be fool enough to have a pyramid destroying a mountain, that would just be plain ridiculous. I have never seen something like that happen in comics.

actually, there was the time when- oh...

Originally posted by Raoul
actually, there was the time when- oh...



Ok, you got me.

...unless you think a pyramid can destroy a mountain. Perhaps, if you throw it fast enough (F=ma), especially since (IIRC) a mass moving at 86% cee has the kinetic force equal to all that mass being converted entirely into energy.

EDIT: just did some quick Googling and math. Basically, figure a 5-million-ton pyramid converted entirely into energy would cause an explosive force of about 100 million gigatons. Contrast that with the estimated 200 million megaton impact of Shoemaker-Levy.

Fun With Numbers.

Supes wins !!!

Originally posted by Mindship
Perhaps, if you throw it fast enough (F=ma), especially since (IIRC) a mass moving at 86% cee has the kinetic force equal to all that mass being converted entirely into energy.

EDIT: just did some quick Googling and math. Basically, figure a 5-million-ton pyramid converted entirely into energy would cause an explosive force of about 100 million gigatons. Contrast that with the estimated 200 million megaton impact of Shoemaker-Levy.

Fun With Numbers.



I understand that and agree but if it was thrown at the speed hulk threw it, it wouldnt destroy a mountain. If anything it would crumble once hitting the mountain. Good mathmatic skills though.

Originally posted by carver9
...but if it was thrown at the speed hulk threw it, it wouldnt destroy a mountain. If anything it would crumble once hitting the mountain.Probably. Not everyone can do that Precrisis stuff.

Originally posted by Mindship
Probably. Not everyone can do that Precrisis stuff.

This is spite. Superman wins all day.

And Superman murders Thor even if Thor has Mjlonir.
How's then apples?

Originally posted by h1a8
This is spite. Superman wins all day.

And Superman murders Thor even if Thor has Mjlonir.
How's then apples?

Now this is hilarious. h1a8, its pointless to argue with you, especially against superman because you mind is always made up, theres no changing it.

I will end my sentence with this though, Thor>superman.

Originally posted by h1a8
This is spite. Superman wins all day.

And Superman murders Thor even if Thor has Mjlonir.
How's then apples?


THor looses in a physical brawl but if he has his hammer its easiliy even. Give thor his belt and supes dies a horrible death.

Thor is physically stronger then superman with his belt.


But this is a pure physical brawl. supes should beat thor probobly everytime.

Superman for the win here imo.

Superman, unless of course Thor and Surfer work as a team.
Then Thor and Surfer would duke it out.

with no magic I give it supes

Just Muscle - Supes wins

Originally posted by Juk3n
Just Muscle - Supes wins

Yeah pretty much I guess.

If it's purely physical...

1) Superman
2) Thor
3) Surfer

If it were "all out" the order would be the exact opposite