Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

before becoming a member to the forums, i read a bunch of old threads. everyone makes apocalypse look like a b**** little kid. now i know he is lazy and could have conquered the world millions of times in his life but didnt. but that doesnt mean he cant fight. he is a real acomplished fighter and has unlimited physical power that he can draw from. he has taken out a celestial, that says a lot. and he survived and seemed uneffected by a BB scream. he beat 6 x-men in 60 seconds. turned the hulk into a slave, well a horseman. but everyone acts as if apocalypse is weak.

by the way im not sayin hes the strongest but he is above a long list.

go ahead and argue with me.

when did he take out a celestial, and i was under the impression blackbolt's scream pretty much ruined apocalypse for a while.

it was in some mini series i read a wile back, i will look into it and post.

when did blackbolt to that?

dunno. just heard on another board that blackbolt took out poccy with a scream, presumably on the moon.

Originally posted by Disappear
dunno. just heard on another board that blackbolt took out poccy with a scream, presumably on the moon. Recently in Black PAnther HoM tie in #7 or 8 or something. In wakanda FYI. Apcoalypse has been shown to cope with his scream before though according to what I've read (but hey it's wandas apocalypse).

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/anticryste/apoc.jpg

Apocalypes is a poor, poor, poor mans Thanos.

correction: apocalypse is a very X-centric thanos. also, you know, not cosmically empowered or in a one-sided relationship with death.

and i dont think i understand the point of the "culmination of the AoA" picture. you don't like apocalypse because after a prolonged battle with magneto, and partially with nate grey, apocalypse's body is polarized and ripped to shreds by magneto? i thought that scene was funny, as even after his respiratory system was magnetically molested and torn from his body, poccy still tries to talk... what a persistent S.O.B.

No, I just like the picture. Mags is the man.

question if wolvie's claws can cut through any metal, y doesn't he cut through apocalypse

cos apocaylpse isnt made of metal..................

AOA is so stupid. stupid things happen in it and its full of plot holes is not consistant to normal marvel rules. how can magneto rip apoc in half if hes not metal? how can he do it at half power? how can cyclops destroy an adamantium hand? if the fact that mutants were braught to apocs attention when legion was causing havoc, then how did apoc not still try to take over after he saw mutants. he would have still seen that on tv when bishop stoped legion.

AOA Cyclops didn't destroy Wolverine's hand completely as he was able to retract his claws from there later. As for Wolverine vs. Apocalypse skin, he should be able to cut him, but the closest thing of the two really other than as a horsemen was during the Jungle Adventures, and that Apocalypse was a robot.

Apocalypse is strong, but he doesn't have enough comic material time to consider him tough enough to fight amongst the likes of people he's been pitted in the forums. I'll give him an advantage against someone near the lines of Superman, but not uber cosmic powers as been seen here (i.e. Galactus).

Originally posted by JirK
AOA is so stupid. stupid things happen in it and its full of plot holes is not consistant to normal marvel rules. how can magneto rip apoc in half if hes not metal? how can he do it at half power? how can cyclops destroy an adamantium hand? if the fact that mutants were braught to apocs attention when legion was causing havoc, then how did apoc not still try to take over after he saw mutants. he would have still seen that on tv when bishop stoped legion.
1) Perhaps Apoc has SOME metal in his body, like iron in the blood or cobalt in vitamin B12 hosting tissue...

2) Cyclops didn't destroy Wolvies hand, he just shot it off, because the joints between the hand bones and the bones of his underarm are not covered with adamantium...they can't be, because in order to function they have to be flexible and thus are only made of ligaments, cartilage and a greasy liquid...like everyone else's!

Apocalypse getting pwn3d...
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/anticryste/bbolt.jpg
shifty

shizzle...

Wasn't that Wanda's HoM-Apocalypse?
If it is, is that incident really representative?

Originally posted by wannabe
Wasn't that Wanda's HoM-Apocalypse?
If it is, is that incident really representative? Altered reality not alternate reality - and until I read otherwise continuity. Apoc is the same according to the bio given. He just gets pwn3d...
Black Bolt's the man.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Altered reality not alternate reality - and until I read otherwise continuity. Apoc is the same according to the bio given. He just gets pwn3d...
Black Bolt's the man.
But usual reality Apoc is dead due to Jean and Nathan, so this one is an Apoc completely created by Wanda.
Taking this into consideration, this incident's representativeness remains uncertain.

The Gwen Stacy, Ben Parker, Jim Jaspers, and Hawkeye created by Wanda/Magneto/Xavier's machinations have high fidelity to their "source material".

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The Gwen Stacy, Ben Parker, Jim Jaspers, and Hawkeye created by Wanda/Magneto/Xavier's machinations have high fidelity to their "source material".
Gwen and Ben are acting according to the "wishes" of Peter, Hawkeye to those of Wanda (it's just an assumption). But fact is that they were "on the side" of at least one of those who are responsible for HoM, when they were alive.
Apocalypse is dead and was a major enemy of Xavier, Magneto and Wanda...do you think they would recreate him exactly the way he was? Do you think the real Apoc would submit to any of the HoM?

I don't want to say that you are wrong, just that the reliability of HoM Apoc is not 100% certain.

Originally posted by JirK
AOA is so stupid. stupid things happen in it and its full of plot holes is not consistant to normal marvel rules. how can magneto rip apoc in half if hes not metal? how can he do it at half power? how can cyclops destroy an adamantium hand? if the fact that mutants were braught to apocs attention when legion was causing havoc, then how did apoc not still try to take over after he saw mutants. he would have still seen that on tv when bishop stoped legion.

indeed...think about it..if Magneto could have defeated Apocalypse..why did he allow Apocalypse to take over? who wrote AoA a 6 year old? bur2Originally posted by pr1983
shizzle... that's my line yo

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Apocalypse getting pwn3d...
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/anticryste/bbolt.jpg
shifty

this is the lame apoc that SW made. the old apoc withstood that scream without it even phasing him.

Originally posted by Mainstream
indeed...think about it..if Magneto could have defeated Apocalypse..why did he allow Apocalypse to take over?...
However much i liked AoA, i have to admit that this is valid question i came across too!
Perhaps the last fight between Mags and Apoc was the first confrontation without major assistance from Apoc's horsemen and other pawns?

Originally posted by wannabe
However much i liked AoA, i have to admit that this is valid question i came across too!
Perhaps the last fight between Mags and Apoc was the first confrontation without major assistance from Apoc's horsemen and other pawns?



maybe it wasn't really Apocalypse in AoA maybe it was his twin brother from the getto Apocalizzle wickedph

Originally posted by JirK
this is the lame apoc that SW made. the old apoc withstood that scream without it even phasing him. I recall someone telling me that was back in the day when the mechanisms of BB's scream were still defined as sonic.

kool-msn

Originally posted by Mainstream
maybe it wasn't really Apocalypse in AoA maybe it was his twin brother from the getto Apocalizzle wickedph
confused1

Originally posted by wannabe
confused1


lolabove

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The Gwen Stacy, Ben Parker, Jim Jaspers, and Hawkeye created by Wanda/Magneto/Xavier's machinations have high fidelity to their "source material".
Gwen and Ben are acting according to the "wishes" of Peter, Hawkeye to those of Wanda (it's just an assumption). But fact is that they were "on the side" of at least one of those who are responsible for HoM, when they were alive.
Apocalypse is dead and was a major enemy of Xavier, Magneto and Wanda...do you think they would recreate him exactly the way he was? Do you think the real Apoc would submit to any of the HoM?

I don't want to say that you are wrong, just that the reliability of HoM Apoc is not 100% certain.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I recall someone telling me that was back in the day when the mechanisms of BB's scream were still defined as sonic.
Even if...the questions mentioned above remain.

I don't know if he's recreated exactly the same as he was. However any evidence I can find suggests that he is. Pretty much same personality. Same powers. Same bio. I don't think the writers were thinking we're going to bring back a depowered Apoc for HoM, imo they brought back Apoc as per normal and had him pwn3d by Black Bolt.
There's no real indication that Gwen and Ben's every action is to the wishes of Spider-Man or that Hawkeye is acting to Wanda's. From all appearance they've been brought back to life with specific roles but capable of independent thought.
I don't know if the reliability of HoM is 100% certain - there are few things that are 100% certain. But I haven't seen anything to suggest that powerwise it isn't continuity for the overwhelming majority of characters.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
There's no real indication that Gwen and Ben's every action is to the wishes of Spider-Man or that Hawkeye is acting to Wanda's. From all appearance they've been brought back to life with specific roles but capable of independent thought.
That's what i meant! Recreated in a specific role according to the wishes of the mentioned characters...sorry!
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I don't know if the reliability of HoM is 100% certain - there are few things that are 1000% certain. But I haven't seen anything to suggest that powerwise it isn't continuity for the overwhelming majority of characters.
Nonetheless Apoc is submitting to the HoM, a ruling body brought to existence (like himself) by some of his greatest adversaries AND he looks very scared at the sight of BB. Thats not very "in character" imo.
Has his durability ever been tested on that level before in HoM? If not, we have no way to ascertain his equality (powerwise) to the real Apoc.

Did Black Bolt kill him?

Originally posted by willRules
Did Black Bolt kill him?

last I heard Jean and Cable "killed" him corpse

Originally posted by wannabe
2) Cyclops didn't destroy Wolvies hand, he just shot it off, because the joints between the hand bones and the bones of his underarm are not covered with adamantium...they can't be, because in order to function they have to be flexible and thus are only made of ligaments, cartilage and a greasy liquid...like everyone else's! In AOA the prosess seems to have been different.

In alternate timelines that were divergent from 616 before the bonding process occured, the process could have been different.

However there are several cases in the 616 when had what you said been true Wolverine would either be dead or missing limbs . . .

Even in timelines divergent from 616 after the bonding process in 616 the skeleton remains in tact when had what you said been true would have seperated itself out.

In 616 it seems that the skeleton was bonded in such a way that the skeleton is held together in one piece, but also allows flexability, as wolverine can indeed move, and not lose appendages when he should have, on several occasions.

Originally posted by Creshosk
In AOA the prosess seems to have been different.

In alternate timelines that were divergent from 616 before the bonding process occured, the process could have been different.

However there are several cases in the 616 when had what you said been true Wolverine would either be dead or missing limbs . . .

Even in timelines divergent from 616 after the bonding process in 616 the skeleton remains in tact when had what you said been true would have seperated itself out.

In 616 it seems that the skeleton was bonded in such a way that the skeleton is held together in one piece, but also allows flexability, as wolverine can indeed move, and not lose appendages when he should have, on several occasions.
When AoA began, the bonding with the metal was already done, so the normal Wolvie and the AoA Wolvie were victims to the same bonding process.
Even if it weren't this way, your assumption would be rather wishful thinking...i don't see writers doing enough thinking to come up with another bonding process for an alternate version of 616 (which didn't even have this name back then) when it's of absolutley NO consequence during the incidents shown in the comics.

In Days of Future Past, which is an alternative future of a 616 where Wolvie already had the adamantium in valid continuity, you can see his skeleton when he gets incinerated and there are only bones left, no ligaments or connecting tissue. So there is nothing made of adamantium, which would have survived the incineration, to hold the bones together.

In Earth X(i think it was) Wolvies skull, and ONLY the skull, were taken from DoFP to find some remaining cells for cloning...HOW when his bones would be connected with adamamtium to one another???

Wolverine doesn't loose any limbs because of the same reason why he can cut people with invulnerability...bad or unthoughtful writing and exaggeration.

Originally posted by Mainstream
last I heard Jean and Cable "killed" him corpse

Well i know that but I meant in HoM

Originally posted by wannabe
When AoA began, the bonding with the metal was already done, so the normal Wolvie and the AoA Wolvie were victims to the same bonding process. Well it was a theory that the divergence occured before the bonding process occured. . because it seemed to be more recent than where the divergence occured.

Originally posted by wannabe
Even if it weren't this way, your assumption would be rather wishful thinking...i don't see writers doing enough thinking to come up with another bonding process for an alternate version of 616 (which didn't even have this name back then) when it's of absolutley NO consequence during the incidents shown in the comics. It's just that he does seem to hold his skeleton together in 616 when there should be nothing to hold it together. . .

Originally posted by wannabe
In Days of Future Past, which is an alternative future of a 616 where Wolvie already had the adamantium in valid continuity, you can see his skeleton when he gets incinerated and there are only bones left, no ligaments or connecting tissue. So there is nothing made of adamantium, which would have survived the incineration, to hold the bones together. And yet they remain together and the skeletal layout does not fall apart.

Same with the alternate future xmen when they went into limbo to rescue Illyana, Wolverine's skelton is in one peice, other wise Sym wouldn't have snapped the claw off, but just pulled it out of a pile.

Originally posted by wannabe
In Earth X(i think it was) Wolvies skull, and ONLY the skull, were taken from DoFP to find some remaining cells for cloning...HOW when his bones would be connected with adamamtium to one another??? Something else that could cut or break adamantium might have been found.

Originally posted by wannabe
Wolverine doesn't loose any limbs because of the same reason why he can cut people with invulnerability...bad or unthoughtful writing and exaggeration. Which I'm trying to explain. Otherwise there is too much selective acceptence of characters who defy physics. . . like the winged charaacters and cyclops . . .

Originally posted by Creshosk
The thing is, this isn't true, not for Wolverine. In Wolverine: Snikt! his right arm was burned so badly only his adamantium bones remained; guess what? They were still linked together. Wolverine was still able to use his arm (even though he had to hold it with his left hand). If there is cartilage between his bones that can be severed, than it can also be burned away, and obviously thats not the case.

What about New X-Men, E is for Extinction? Nova burned off all the flesh on his right arm, and guess what? the arm bones were still linked together. They didn't collapse or fall off, which is what they would have done had there been connecting ligaments and cartilage.

How about Miller's Wolverine? When Shingen and Logan fight, Shingen aims a sword stroke at Logans' neck; I've been informed that it was later explained (whether by Miller or Claremont, I don't know) that it was an attack that was meant to sever Wolverine's head, by cutting inbetween the connecting bones; but since Wolverine's adamantium reinforces and links those bones, it couldn't cut through.


And lets not forget Blood Hungry.

want to know why wolverine doesn't lose limbs? because what good is a mostly-adamantium canadian? none. wolverine is immune because he is wolverine, and wolverine is what sells x-paraphenalia. overanalyzing a panel from DoFP (in which the art was still crappy and from ages past, when detail such as ligaments wasn't even thought of) is a bit of a stretch to discredit the character.

as for blackbolt, yes, his scream was still considered to be purely sonic energy back when he first encountered apocalypse. you think dazzler could completely absorb the detonation of an atom bomb? his powers were unofficially retconned into quasi-nuclear energy production (in terms of his scream) later.

to say wanda must've created an imperfect apocalypse because blackbolt could kill him, when there's no evidence pointing toward that but your own fact-twisting theory, is reverse logic. you can't reverse-engineer a situation into fact.

why could magneto tear apocalypse apart? because everything has a magnetic charge, and magneto polarized him. it's very simple. magneto can affect ALL matter, not just metals, because electromagnetism is universal. even at half power, polarizing a battle-worn apocalypse isn't nearly out of his range.

why did magneto let apocalypse begin his tyranny? because he was following xavier's dream, raising his children, gathering outcasted mutants, and generally attempting to take care of the mutant populace when poccy made his coup d'etat. to tell you the truth, i doubt magneto even knew he could kill apocalypse before he actually did it, considering his relatively long time in nur's company without attempting to kill him. remember, just because we know what a character's powers are, or their limits, or their origins and motivations, doesn't mean all the other fictional characters they mingle with do. it's an example of repeated, consistent irony.

also, incredible scan. loved it.

finally, shizzle is urban slang for "real" or "really," not the expletive it's typically switched out with.

Originally posted by Disappear
want to know why wolverine doesn't lose limbs? because what good is a mostly-adamantium canadian? none. wolverine is immune because he is wolverine, and wolverine is what sells x-paraphenalia. overanalyzing a panel from DoFP (in which the art was still crappy and from ages past, when detail such as ligaments wasn't even thought of) is a bit of a stretch to discredit the character.
My opinion exactly!!! But this forum is about discussion, debate, assumptions and speculations, backed up by released comic issues and logic...at least that's what i thought!
And i'm NOT about discrediting ANY character...their writers perhaps but not the character itself. Wolverine is an interesting, multidimensional and cool character...ESPECIALLY written without exaggerations (yes, that happens from time to time).
Originally posted by Creshosk
Which I'm trying to explain. Otherwise there is too much selective acceptence of characters who defy physics. . . like the winged charaacters and cyclops . . .
Comics are about accepting and loving things that defy physics...when it comes to powers! But apart from the super powers and super sciences the characters are usually bound to normal physics...so Angel can fly in an atmosphere, because it's his power, but in space he can't, because his power is described to use aerodynamics (normal physics).
Cyclops can shoot beams out of his eyes, because it's his power, but in all other aspects he is bound to normal laws of nature etc...
Letting characters do "super-things" that are beyond their described super powers is comic literature anarchy, makes characters "specialties" more arbitrary and less special and lessens the quality of the fiction...imo, of course!

Not to resurrect a post (oh, who am I kidding, specifically to resurrect a post) but I see NO reasons why anyone should show Apocalypse an iota of respect. I will never see why that imbecile is considered a major bad ass. Back in ancient egypt he had the mutant power of being angsty and ugly. That's about it. All his incredible power is stolen from Kang, the Avengers/Fantastic Four villain from the far far far future, who just happened to leave a ton of gear behind in ancient Egypt for Apoc-a-lips to stumble onto. A chimp could be just a big a threat if it had stuff from that far into the future slapped onto it! >_<

I find it amusing that he's still considered a major bad guy, despite having a "survival of the fittest" philosophy that he himself wouldn't measure up to if not for stolen technology. And despite the fact that his big bids for domination, when we see them (as opposed to the offscreen one that put him in charge of AoA) have tended to be ridiculously complicated and pretty much doomed to failure from the word go.

Plus he has a giant "A" on his belt. Yeesh.

Originally posted by D1Puck1T
Plus he has a giant "A" on his belt. Yeesh. So true.

Most other villains have some wins under their (less ridiculous) belts. Cassandra Nova in a short period of time committed the Genoshan genocide, stole Charles body and outted him, threw the Shi'ar into disarray, punked the Imperial Guard...

I think he's a bit....feminine....if you know what I mean....

moving to vs forum....

I read that Apocalypse physical strength is not all that great either I think Superman could easily over power him and smack him down.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I don't know if he's recreated exactly the same as he was. However any evidence I can find suggests that he is. Pretty much same personality. Same powers. Same bio. I don't think the writers were thinking we're going to bring back a depowered Apoc for HoM, imo they brought back Apoc as per normal and had him pwn3d by Black Bolt.
There's no real indication that Gwen and Ben's every action is to the wishes of Spider-Man or that Hawkeye is acting to Wanda's. From all appearance they've been brought back to life with specific roles but capable of independent thought.
I don't know if the reliability of HoM is 100% certain - there are few things that are 100% certain. But I haven't seen anything to suggest that powerwise it isn't continuity for the overwhelming majority of characters.

There was also time when BB scream couldnt even move him.

Originally posted by Xplosive
There was also time when BB scream couldnt even move him.

how come you dont post the pic then?

yea but that was when blackbolt's scream was supposedly only sound.

Originally posted by Jimmy Buggs
how come you dont post the pic then?


I dont have the scanner, but do you think I am lying?

Not a battle.

Closed.