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this are humans not mutans or superpowered human like GL just good old plane human. that like 7billion people vs one superman and superman has evey power but his flying. who wins lol.

every human would win. Cuz we have armies and alot of weapons.

Yeah but we don't have Krytonite

We lose. Sure he cannot fly. But he still has speed. And everything else.

This is a thread day of numbers, isn't it? Escalation, man. Multiple Man to 52,000 ninjas to everyone on the planet vs. Superman. Whew! No flying - no super speed then? He has to hit, melt and blow them away?

Superman is stronger than every human on the plannet. The whole population of the world cannot lift a Billion tons

He might go insane with grief after the first million, and just sit in despair.

Originally posted by roughrider
He might go insane with grief after the first million, and just sit in despair. Or go insane and just kill. . .

Nothing we can do can touch Supes. . .

Oh really?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Oh really?

Are only hope is the Duke.... May J.P. have mercy on us all.

Superman can barely survive one nuclear explosion - how would he do against a 1000? People on that continent are expendable, I suppose...

Um. No. He once survived a planet exploding. And he was fine.

And Superman wouldn't be stupid enough to let a nuke hit him. He would deactivate all of them first.

And that would be that for us.

How can he deactivate them all if he can't fly? ( See above)

So what, is everybody in the world formed in a circle around Superman and trying to kill him, or does Superman have to kill/KO everbody on the planet starting from whereever they are currently?

Supes wont hurt us, we win by default.

Originally posted by yahman
Are only hope is the Duke.... May J.P. have mercy on us all. I have him on speedial...

Originally posted by roughrider
How can he deactivate them all if he can't fly? ( See above)

Either running or jumping.

Originally posted by demigawd
So what, is everybody in the world formed in a circle around Superman and trying to kill him, or does Superman have to kill/KO everbody on the planet starting from whereever they are currently?

Yeah - do we rush him in waves, and can he use super-speed?

Originally posted by Draco69
Either running or jumping.

You mean before they take off? Every missle silo in the world??

Originally posted by roughrider
You mean before they take off? Every missle silo in the world??

Sure. If they HAVEN'T taken off, (which I'm sure they haven't since they can't even track someone that fast) then he'll simply use his senses to find the missles/bombs and deactivate them.

If they HAVE lifted off, then he'll jump really high (if Hulk can do it so can Superman) and on to the missile and deactivate manually. Or freeze in the air. Or heat vision a component material of the missile.

Or simply just run away from the blast.

They can't hit him with missile if they tried. They have to locate him, track him, fire the missile and hope it hits. And it won't.

Jump in the air + heat vision

If he can heat the Earth from orbit 200,000 miles away he can surely roast a continent with a good enough leap.

Which is why I say a whole continent may be sacrificed to get him. Just pound everything in that particular country with every nuke in the world; don't have to be completely exact. And if he can't fly, he better be able to swim fast over the ocean.

Originally posted by Ultimate Ion
Jump in the air + heat vision

If he can heat the Earth from orbit 200,000 miles away he can surely roast a ccontinent with a good enough leap.

It's at the beginning - no flying. A "jump" in the air counts. Can we just say he is completely earthbound?

Originally posted by roughrider
Which is why I say a whole continent may be sacrificed to get him. Just pound everything in that particular country with every nuke in the world; don't have to be completely exact. And if he can't fly, he better be able to swim fast over the ocean.

You're underestimating his speed. A few seconds is all he needs to cross an ocean or continent.

Exact?

"Well folks we don't know where this guy is...so....France sound okay. I mean he'd probably go there first right?"

Originally posted by roughrider
It's at the beginning - no flying. A "jump" in the air counts. Can we just say he is completely earthbound?

Flying is not jumping. You're saying Hulk and Spider-Man can fly?

Originally posted by roughrider
Which is why I say a whole continent may be sacrificed to get him. Just pound everything in that particular country with every nuke in the world; don't have to be completely exact. And if he can't fly, he better be able to swim fast over the ocean.
Does 2000 miles per second count as fast? Cause Superman's running speed is shown to be at least that high in The Flash #209.

And jumping and flying are way different.

Hulk can jump a few miles, Spider-Man about a city block. No, not saying that. The spirit of this thread is that Supes has to stay earthbound for this fight; if he doesn't fly but takes "super-leaps" and just kills thousands with his heat-vision while up, that goes against the grain of the limits put here. Just like Wolverine staying earthbound to take on 52,000, can Superman do the same with the world population?

A nuclear shockwave moves at about 30 km/sec, which is about a hundred times the speed of sound. I'm pretty sure Superman could outrun it. Especially considering he'll hear and see it coming from 100 miles away.

Better leave nukes out of this - Superman will just use this to help beat all the humans by playing chicken.

Originally posted by roughrider
Hulk can jump a few miles, Spider-Man about a city block. No, not saying that. The spirit of this thread is that Supes has to stay earthbound for this fight; if he doesn't fly but takes "super-leaps" and just kills thousands with his heat-vision while up, that goes against the grain of the limits put here. Just like Wolverine staying earthbound to take on 52,000, can Superman do the same with the world population?

It's within the thread's parameters. No harm no foul.

And even he couldn't jump, he still wins.

IF he didn't have his speed, then the human race would stand a slight chance.

Fine, no jumping.

Superman looks up in the sky, shoots his heat vision and fries the atmosphere.

End.

OK. He can do this, kill all of us, but wonder if he has the stomach to go all the way. Likely not.

Well, we could blow up Earth and the only survivors would be the people on Mir. That's technically a win for humanity. I've seen Supes take a nuke well and I've seen Supes take a nuke not so well and have to steal solar energy from foliage to survive.

Earth's complete nuclear arsenal may be the only option.

That or Ron Jeremy.

Character-wise he wouldn't kill a single of us. Forum wise humanity gets curbstomped.

Originally posted by Draco69
Character-wise he wouldn't kill a single of us. Forum wise humanity gets curbstomped.

Yep

Originally posted by roughrider
OK. He can do this, kill all of us, but wonder if he has the stomach to go all the way. Likely not. 98% of the fights on this forum wouldn't happen.

Well, part of the idea is to bring the character makeup, along with the powers, when we debate matchups, right?

Unless the thread starter chooses to suspend that rule.

But then you'd have to ask why every person on the planet decided to turn on the number 1 hero.

Of course Supes wouldnt actually hurt us. If this were in a comic he'd just change to his Clark Kent garb and blend in.

It's like pitting Wolverine against those 52,000 ninja. We know his character and morality - no problem for him. He'd be up for thousands more! That's what makes him and Punisher threads complicated, because fights for them generally mean death; other heroes aren't the same, like Supes. We try to think like he would in matchups; having to kill is a bigger deal for him.

OK superman speed is cut down by 1/2 and jumping is allowed

i hope supes is not in a heavy populated area when we start throwing nukes in his direction,cuz i dont think it would be wise to kill are own ppl.lol

wolf's rain

Originally posted by supremthor
wolf's rain
rocks

Originally posted by crimsonphoenix
i hope supes is not in a heavy populated area when we start throwing nukes in his direction,cuz i dont think it would be wise to kill are own ppl.lol


I was just thinking that and what's worse is he still has super speed which, means he could just run and avoid the nukes while we kill ourselves.

Superman kills the majority of the population, until he faces what may be his greatest foe ever:

















Mr. T

Realistically, Superman wins this -- and easily -- unless kryptonite is allowed. A country controlled entirely by market forces like mine (America) can't even friggin' mobilize unless there's money to be made or oil to be plundered, even if it's a life-or-death situation! Even if we were suddenly well-organized, well-coordinated and highly motivated (and without being deceived into that motivation like we were with Pearl Harbor and 9/11) and our "leaders" and the corporate media were suddenly being honest with us, we'd STILL be screwed because Superman could effortlessly knock out our power grid with a well-placed punch or two, rendering us largely powerless (literally). It wouldn't even take him any meaningful amount of time or planning to do it.

Originally posted by supremthor
wolf's rain
its is a good one, that guys a phenomenal writer, but bebop is sooooo much better.

Originally posted by Orestes
Realistically, Superman wins this -- and easily -- unless kryptonite is allowed. A country controlled entirely by market forces like mine (America) can't even friggin' mobilize unless there's money to be made or oil to be plundered, even if it's a life-or-death situation! Even if we were suddenly well-organized, well-coordinated and highly motivated (and without being deceived into that motivation like we were with Pearl Harbor and 9/11) and our "leaders" and the corporate media were suddenly being honest with us, we'd STILL be screwed because Superman could effortlessly knock out our power grid with a well-placed punch or two, rendering us largely powerless (literally). It wouldn't even take him any meaningful amount of time or planning to do it.

I agree.

Superman kills the majority of the population, until he faces what may be his greatest foe ever:

















Lois Lane.

Oh yeah he fears her alright.

Magic?
Some people think it's real, so we just get all the weird goth wiccan chicks and throw them at him by the dozen. Hopefully something'll stick.

Originally posted by olympian
Superman kills the majority of the population, until he faces what may be his greatest foe ever:

















Lois Lane.

Oh yeah he fears her alright.


Yeah that was really original. Superman wins as much as I hate saying it. Everyone is only worried about themselves and if Superman became evil society would collapse on its self. Kind of like a zombie invasion, or Hurricane Katrina. People would start looting stores in his wake and commiting other crimes. The world would fall into anarchy. Just watch any movie that has to do with chaos and you'll understand what I mean, or you could watch the news on the Hurricane's victims if you haven't been.

Superman would utterly annihalate us with no effort at all.

Nukes are out of the question. With his superhearing and vision he could hear and see them the instant they take off a vapourise them even as they leave the silo.

None of our other earthly weapons would even scratch him.

He would be invincible.

The only way to slay down him is to assemble a group of superpowered being which collectiv might nearly equal his own:
The Smashers!
SMASHERS ASSEMBLE!

-KURT ANGLE
Kurt is the leader, olympic athtlete with high wrestling skills, he's a smart cheater and master tactician, plus he's hella durable and strong, plus he wears the U.S.A. colors on his costume, he's like Ultimate Captain America, a badass

-REY MYSTERIO
The speedster, able to flip, run and jump at superhuman level, plus possess quite considerable strenght and durability, he's the one that will keep Supes attention while

-THE BIG SHOW
The Incredible Hulk in human disguise, this huge man possess outstanding strenght and durability, he'll go into slugfest with Supes and show him human race don't bow to ****ing kryptonians

-THE UNDERTAKER
The dark hero, he'll aid BS into pummeling the crap outta Supes, his strenght and powers linked to realm of death are a deadly mix, superstrenght + magic= troubles for Kal El

-JOHN CENA
The Thor of the group.Cool, nice, hella strong and durable, loved from girls, childs, old people and animals.This guy is also a master planner, and has major fighting skills.Time to show Supes he can be really a BAD BAD MAN.

-EDDIE GUERRERO LAAAAAAAAAAAAA RAZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
The evil warrior that will join force of the heroes for saving the planet.
This can flip, punch, kick and laugh in a cool bravado way, and he's on par with Rey Mysterio, just slightly stronger, and in a tag team tactic, they'll show Supes what means teamwork.

-HULK HOGAN and STONE COLD
The Skyfathers, backup plan, they'll join the slugfest showing that an old man is a survivor and drop on Supes anything they'll find on the battlefield and in the end perform a combo attack on him.

Superman runs around creating hurricanes and tornados. And if they do try the nuke tactic.. it's been tried. Even weakened, in Kryptonite sand at ground zero and handled an nuke with ease and even prevented it from doing too much damage. Someone posted the scan of it the other day.

This is a joke.

Lex Luthor alone is man enough for Superman. And get real, if Superman exists, obviously Kryptonite exists as well.

I say Superman 0, Lex Luthor 1
and the rest of the world will never even have to get out of bed.

Admittedly, the guy's got nice muscles and a couple of cool powers, but Brainiac he is not.

Outwitted, outplayed, and wondering what the hell just happened, he'll be in a Kryptonite coffin while Lex is consoling Lois in his penthouse, with the lights turned low, a fire burning, some expensive bubbly. . .

Bye bye Superman, hallo Mrs Luthor

Originally posted by Dreampanther
This is a joke.

Lex Luthor alone is man enough for Superman. And get real, if Superman exists, obviously Kryptonite exists as well.

I say Superman 0, Lex Luthor 1
and the rest of the world will never even have to get out of bed.

Admittedly, the guy's got nice muscles and a couple of cool powers, but Brainiac he is not.

Outwitted, outplayed, and wondering what the hell just happened, he'll be in a Kryptonite coffin while Lex is consoling Lois in his penthouse, with the lights turned low, a fire burning, some expensive bubbly. . .

Bye bye Superman, hallo Mrs Luthor



Yea cause i mean lex luthor has killed superman a whole number of how many times is it now?? o yea ZERO

Originally posted by superman302
Yea cause i mean lex luthor has killed superman a whole number of how many times is it now?? o yea ZERO Luthor is the shit though, for real.

And what happens if Superman runs back to the fortress of solitude and dons the Kryptonian Battle armor of complete badassness?

The SMASHERS will beat down Supes.

Originally posted by superman302
Yea cause i mean lex luthor has killed superman a whole number of how many times is it now?? o yea ZERO

And Superman has been oh SOOOOOO very effective against Luthor?

With all his superpowers, his invulnerability (oops, forgot about the Kryptonite. . .oh, wait, forgot about the magic as well. . .oh, and, yeah, doesn't he have this thing against killing?), his superstrength, superspeed, freezing breath and laser vision and X-ray vision he has accomplished what, exactly, against Luthor?

The only reason Luthor keeps Blue Boy around is because he doesn't like getting bored, and while Superman isn't exactly the sharpest arrow in the quiver, at least he has all those muscles.

Just a question, something for you to ponder on - wolves, lions, leopards, tigers, bears, gorillas - these are all stronger, faster, meaner and tougher than we are, right? I mean, how many guys do you think it will take to bring a grizzly down?

And yet, we still rule this world. Why is that, do you think?

Let me give you a little clue - brawn vs brain.

And bud, if I had to choose between Luthor and Supertoy, you can be pretty sure my money is on the man who's been running circles around the big wimp since day one.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
And Superman has been oh SOOOOOO very effective against Luthor?

With all his superpowers, his invulnerability (oops, forgot about the Kryptonite. . .oh, wait, forgot about the magic as well. . .oh, and, yeah, doesn't he have this thing against killing?), his superstrength, superspeed, freezing breath and laser vision and X-ray vision he has accomplished what, exactly, against Luthor?

The only reason Luthor keeps Blue Boy around is because he doesn't like getting bored, and while Superman isn't exactly the sharpest arrow in the quiver, at least he has all those muscles.

Just a question, something for you to ponder on - wolves, lions, leopards, tigers, bears, gorillas - these are all stronger, faster, meaner and tougher than we are, right? I mean, how many guys do you think it will take to bring a grizzly down?

And yet, we still rule this world. Why is that, do you think?

Let me give you a little clue - brawn vs brain.

And bud, if I had to choose between Luthor and Supertoy, you can be pretty sure my money is on the man who's been running circles around the big wimp since day one. Uhh... got him kicked out of office and crumbled his empire maybe...?

We lose

Wow, that is a really mean thing to do to a supervillain.

Already I feel safer.

Yea, Superman, you go, boy. Protect the world against evil by getting the evil kicked out of the office. That will REALLY teach evil a lesson.



Look, guys, don't misunderstand me, I like Superman, he's one of the last really good guys, but he is outdated. He was created when a superhero with strict morals and values were needed, in a world that was changing so fast people needed something to cling to.

But in today's world, he is outdated, outclassed and outmatched

Superman. First of all, by virtue of his limited surface area, all the people in the world would not be able to attack him at once; maybe, at most, 20 or 30 could. Even so, my guess is that if 6 billion people got their chance to punch the equivalent of a thick steel wall, you'd end up with 12 billion broken fists.
Hmmm. Then again, if everyone did "dog pile on the wabbit," we humans might just pull it off.

Originally posted by supremthor
this are humans not mutans or superpowered human like GL just good old plane human. that like 7billion people vs one superman and superman has evey power but his flying. who wins lol.

Magicians like Strange, Zatanna, etc. etc. are not mutants or superpowered humans, right? Therefore they can fight against Superman, right? And Superman is vulnerable to magic, right? Therefore Superman will be Strange and Zatanna's gimp until they feel like letting him come out and play again, right?

Like I said - muscles, they're pretty to look at, but otherwise they don't mean much. . .

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Magicians like Strange, Zatanna, etc. etc. are not mutants or superpowered humans, right? Therefore they can fight against Superman, right? And Superman is vulnerable to magic, right? Therefore Superman will be Strange and Zatanna's gimp until they feel like letting him come out and play again, right?

Like I said - muscles, they're pretty to look at, but otherwise they don't mean much. . . Assuming they start at the exact same time? Superman could eliminate all the mages on his first "faster than thought" world destruction tour anyways.

You're underestimating his intelligence. He's a super-genius. He's built things that would make Richards jealous.

Like an entire world.

Originally posted by Draco69
You're underestimating his intelligence. He's a super-genius. He's built things that would make Richards jealous.

Like an entire world. What does intelligence have to do with your opponent being 32498239523 times faster than thought and can hear and see everything going on on the planet with various visions?

Exactly.

Dreampanther - you're a muppet.

Superman can and has learnt languages in seconds, created machines beyond the ken of any human and can come up with battle plans and strategies on the fly - even within milliseconds.

His brain calculates at rates that we cannot understand.

Here he's calculating exactly where he needs to fly between red sun radiation and yellow sun in order to deflect the lethal radiation away from Earth.

Oh - he's flying backwards faster than light whilst he's calculating too.

Just muscle, my arse.

Pah!

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
Exactly.

Dreampanther - you're a muppet.

Superman can and has learnt languages in seconds, created machines beyond the ken of any human and can come up with battle plans and strategies on the fly - even within milliseconds.

His brain calculates at rates that we cannot understand.

Here he's calculating exactly where he needs to fly between red sun radiation and yellow sun in order to deflect the lethal radiation away from Earth.

Oh - he's flying backwards faster than light whilst he's calculating too.

Just muscle, my arse.

Pah!

Go to the Supes vs Flash thread. lol.

Sorry - just to add a bit more salt to the already festering wounds of Dream Panther's argument.

All created by his own 'thick' brain...

Oh, great, now Superman is faster than thought. He can read people's minds, know what they are thinking and that they are planning to cast a spell on him, and then react before that thought is even complete.

Do you KNOW anything about magic?

And I'm the muppet?

Well since, we decided to abandon reason and rationality in favour of insults and Superman worshipping - ZephroCarnelian, you are a fanboy.

Superman, now he's not just faster than the Flash and the speed of light -he's faster than the speed of thought!

This is PRE CRISIS SUPERMAN.Don't cheat fanboy.

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
Sorry - just to add a bit more salt to the already festering wounds of Dream Panther's argument.

All created by his own 'thick' brain...
thats sickening.. lol.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Oh, great, now Superman is faster than thought. He can read people's minds, know what they are thinking and that they are planning to cast a spell on him, and then react before that thought is even complete.

Superman has ALWAYS been faster than thought...

No he's not a telepath. But he can knock them the f*** out before they process an electrical impulse in their brains

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Do you KNOW anything about magic?

Do you know ANYTHING about Superman? Besides watching the Superfriends

And I'm the muppet?

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Well since, we decided to abandon reason and rationality in favour of insults and Superman worshipping - ZephroCarnelian, you are a fanboy.

Actually we're embracing reason and rationality. Speed kills. Duh.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
And I'm the muppet?

Well since, we decided to abandon reason and rationality in favour of insults and Superman worshipping - ZephroCarnelian, you are a fanboy.

What the?!?

Since when has Muppet been an insult...??

It means the same as 'plonker' or 'nitwit.'

Learn some English.

And K3vil - are you saying that since the Crisis Superman is now thick as Dreampanther suggests?

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Superman, now he's not just faster than the Flash and the speed of light -he's faster than the speed of thought!

This makes no sense.

The speed of thought is around 300 meters per second...

Uh-huh.

Being faster than the speed of thought means that you are able to move faster than anyone could possibly react.

No-one on earth would be able to react fast enough to Superman if he decided to do something.

If you fired a bullet at someone, they could not react to it.

Supes is far far faster than a bullet.

Superman is vulnerable to magic.

Magicians have spells to protect them.

Therefore Superman can't touch the magicians.

And speaking of learning English, do you know what nitwit and plonker means?

Doofus.

Look, what am I talking to here, a kindergarten class?

Do I now have to explain the difference between reaction and thought?

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Superman is vulnerable to magic.

Magicians have spells to protect them.

Therefore Superman can't touch the magicians.

And speaking of learning English, do you know what nitwit and plonker means?

Doofus.

Magicians have magic.

Superman is vulnerable to magic and he knows it.

Magicians need time to either utter or think of a spell.

Superman is faster than thought...many, many times.

Magicians (most) are vulnerable to super-punches and heat vision.

Superman wins.

However I doubt speedblitzing would work on Strange or Fate since they have auto-shields. Zatanna on the other hand..

I'm English.

I can speak my own bloody language thankyou very much.

And yes, if Zatanna, Dr Fate etc etc etc are involved in this battle, then Supes will lose.

But I don't think it was the intention at the start of the thread to have ANY heroes on earth at all.

I think it was supposed to be the people of OUR earth with all the tech, weapons and tactics available to them.

It WAS the intention of OUR Earth. If it was DC or Marvel Earth then Superman would lose horribly. But OUR Earth...we die a quick and painless death...if he so chooses it.

Originally posted by Draco69
It WAS the intention of OUR Earth. If it was DC or Marvel Earth then Superman would lose horribly. But OUR Earth...we die a quick and painless death...if he so chooses it.
It was specified no mutants or humans with powers (IE GL). This would imply a merged sort of world of both Marvel and DC universes.

Actually that doesn't really matter either since it was specified no one with powers anyway and magicians do indeed have powers.

Again, my question I asked in the Flash vs Superman debate - do I need to explain the difference between reaction and thought to you?

If you, or anybody else, state one more time that Superman is faster than the speed of thought, I am going to start getting really annoyed.

So far I am having fun, sticking up for Flash, but I never realised how far-fetched the worshipping of Superman has become.

But thanks for the (finally) comprehension that Strange and Fate and the others have automatic magic (let me just repeat that, MAGIC) defenses.

Superman can't touch them, while they can use Superman as play dough, if they feel like it.

Then there we go.

The earth is screwed!

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Again, my question I asked in the Flash vs Superman debate - do I need to explain the difference between reaction and thought to you?

If you, or anybody else, state one more time that Superman is faster than the speed of thought, I am going to start getting really annoyed.

So far I am having fun, sticking up for Flash, but I never realised how far-fetched the worshipping of Superman has become.

But thanks for the (finally) comprehension that Strange and Fate and the others have automatic magic (let me just repeat that, MAGIC) defenses.

Superman can't touch them, while they can use Superman as play dough, if they feel like it.

I'll bite. Superman is faster than thought. Seriously. It's a scientific fact of how fast thought can go.

And Superman is much faster than the limits of thought's speed.

If my thoughts were faster than Superman, I would be a f***ing billionare.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Again, my question I asked in the Flash vs Superman debate - do I need to explain the difference between reaction and thought to you?

If you, or anybody else, state one more time that Superman is faster than the speed of thought, I am going to start getting really annoyed.

So far I am having fun, sticking up for Flash, but I never realised how far-fetched the worshipping of Superman has become.

But thanks for the (finally) comprehension that Strange and Fate and the others have automatic magic (let me just repeat that, MAGIC) defenses.

Superman can't touch them, while they can use Superman as play dough, if they feel like it.

"this are humans not mutans or superpowered human like GL just good old plane human."

Magic can be considered a super power as plain old ordinary humans do not use magic.

Originally posted by Draco69
I'll bite. Superman is faster than thought. Seriously. It's a scientific fact of how fast thought can go.

And Superman is much faster than the limits of thought's speed.

If my thoughts were faster than Superman, I would be a f***ing billionare. I saw an explination that all of his functions were sped up by the whole sun absorbtion process. . . so I can see Superman being faster than the speed of thought. . average human thought anyway. As Superman would not be faster than the speed of Superman's thoughts.

It was specified no super powers. No mention was made of magic powers.

And if you want to have a fictitious character against the REAL WORLD, then this debate is a joke.

Originally posted by Creshosk
"this are humans not mutans or superpowered human like GL just good old plane human."

Magic can be considered a super power as plain old ordinary humans do not use magic.

I saw an explination that all of his functions were sped up by the whole sun absorbtion process. . . so I can see Superman being faster than the speed of thought. . average human thought anyway. As Superman would not be faster than the speed of Superman's thoughts. It would take another speedster tot think to that fast.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
It was specified no super powers. No mention was made of magic powers.

And if you want to have a fictitious character against the REAL WORLD, then this debate is a joke.

Magic isn't a superpower? Well I'll be...

This debate IS a joke. The Superman hate here is ridiculous. That's why it expanded beyond more than two or three posts.

In actuality there's FAR more Superman hate and Superman love. The love comes from only about 3 to 5 members. The others on the other hand...

Am I in the Twilight Zone? Where do you get your "scientific fact" of how fast the speed of thought is?

The speed of thought is immeasurable. Do you know what immeasurable means?

All scientists can measure is reaction time, which has NOTHING TO DO WHATSOEVER WITH THE SPEED OF THOUGHT!

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Am I in the Twilight Zone? Where do you get your "scientific fact" of how fast the speed of thought is?

The speed of thought is immeasurable. Do you know what immeasurable means?

All scientists can measure is reaction time, which has NOTHING TO DO WHATSOEVER WITH THE SPEED OF THOUGHT! Check the forum rules. There is a set speed of thought as far as the forum is concerned.

Thought is comprised of electrochemical signals being sent between neurons in the brain.

Along a good conduit, electricity will cruise at 2000metres per second.

Through the axons, it will go at a speed between 1.5 to 120metres per second.

This has been measured.

Thus is not immeasurable.

"Magic isn't a superpower? Well I'll be.."

Superman has super powers, right? Does he have magical powers? Where did you learn to debate?

And just by the way, if you check my other posts, you will see I express my admiration of Superman as a (somewhat old-fashioned) role model. I just don't believe in falling down on my knees and worshipping him as an all-powerful, all-knowing "faster than thought (give me a break) god

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Am I in the Twilight Zone? Where do you get your "scientific fact" of how fast the speed of thought is?

The speed of thought is immeasurable. Do you know what immeasurable means?

All scientists can measure is reaction time, which has NOTHING TO DO WHATSOEVER WITH THE SPEED OF THOUGHT!

Does it? Who says a mental reaction isn't thought? Does thought have to be something defines sentient.

What is thought but a mere electrical impulse in our brain bouncing off different areas of the brain. That's it. Nothing special.

Unless you want to define thought as something philosophical or something of the bull.

Measuring the speed of electricity has nothing whatsoever to do with measuring the speed of thought. Go study a semester of scientific research.

And am I the only one that consider this forum presumptuous in setting the speed of thought, when scientists have been struggling with this very concept since people first started thinking?

Originally posted by Dreampanther


Superman has super powers, right? Does he have magical powers? Where did you learn to debate?


Magical powers aren't superpowers? What's the difference. They're both beyound normal ordinary humans. An ability that humans cannot possibly hope to achieve.

You're not making sense or delibrately poking holes in the thread rules.



Originally posted by Dreampanther

And just by the way, if you check my other posts, you will see I express my admiration of Superman as a (somewhat old-fashioned) role model. I just don't believe in falling down on my knees and worshipping him as an all-powerful, all-knowing "faster than thought (give me a break) god

Honey. I never said you were a Superman hating. I was merely commenting on the quote you made about there being Superman worship in KMC forums. Which is exactly the opposite.

Animals react. Do they think?

And measuring the speed of electricity has everything to do with measuring the speed of thought.

Thought processes ARE electrical impulses through the brain.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Measuring the speed of electricity has nothing whatsoever to do with measuring the speed of thought. Go study a semester of scientific research.

Actually it kinda does. That's what thoughts are. Electrical impulses in the brain.

Unless you define thought as spiritual or something. Than that's something different.

And I don't like taking science classes unless I have to. Too much time commitment for labs.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
And am I the only one that consider this forum presumptuous in setting the speed of thought, when scientists have been struggling with this very concept since people first started thinking?

Yeah.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Animals react. Do they think?

Yeah. If you define "thinking" as something other than linguistics and mathematics.

"Food"

"Urinate"

"Mate"

"Run"

"Thought processes ARE electrical impulses through the brain."

Right. That's why computers are thinking, reasoning, creative beings, instead of just tools we created to help us in our evolution. Because that's all thoughts are - just "electrical impulses through the brain". Hey, that must be why shock therapy is so effective in creating super geniuses!

"Unless you define thought as spiritual or something. Than that's something different"

That is EXACTLY what I am arguing.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
"Thought processes ARE electrical impulses through the brain."

Right. That's why computers are thinking, reasoning, creative beings, instead of just tools we created to help us in our evolution. Because that's all thoughts are - just "electrical impulses through the brain". Hey, that must be why shock therapy is so effective in creating super geniuses!

"Unless you define thought as spiritual or something. Than that's something different"

That is EXACTLY what I am arguing.

Ahh. So what's your "definition" of thought?

If you really want to take it THAT far into existentialism...

"Food"

"Urinate"

"Mate"

"Run"

What in the name of green little apples does instinct have to do with rational thought?

"If you define "thinking" as something other than linguistics and mathematics"

I must be in a nightmare. That is the only explanation I can think of, for somebody implying thought is not necessary for mathemathics, or linguistics, or any of the other natural or social sciences

Well if you're arguing that thoughts are more than what goes on in the brain, then yes it is immeasurable.

But everyone else on the board considers thoughts to be electrical impulses for the purpose of threads. Take it up with the mods if you want the ruling changed. It's not up to me or Draco.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
"Food"

"Urinate"

"Mate"

"Run"

What in the name of green little apples does instinct have to do with rational thought?

"If you define "thinking" as something other than linguistics and mathematics"

I must be in a nightmare. That is the only explanation I can think of, for somebody implying thought is not necessary for mathemathics, or linguistics, or any of the other natural or social sciences

Key word: RATIONAL

You said thought. Not rational. Thoughts and instincts are often interchangable.

If you said Rational thought I would have said nothing. But thought? That's a different angle.

And you're making this far too complicated that it should be. You would find yourself far better suited in the Philosophy forum since you kinda wasted all our time by arguing the philosophical implications of human thought.

My definition of thought? I have been struggling with this concept for years, since my first philosophy class (which I failed, by the way. Twice).

But I do know it is not instinct, nor reaction. You might as well ask me where does inspiration come from.

All I know is that we are not mere matter, we are not just "electrical impulses going through the brain". We are thinking, feeling, creative, destructive, emotional, rational, playful, warlike, loving, hating beings, with the capacity to be gods ourselves, if we work together, instead of against each other.

And nobody, NOBODY, should ever stop thinking, because thought is the only thing that separates us from the animals, who, as I said, if it wasn't for our ability to think, would rule the earth.

We are the weakest of all animals, yet we rule this world. Why?

Think about it.

And I don't mean react about it. Or instinct about it.

Oh, and as for separating rational from thought? That is YOUR distinction. MY distinction is between thought and instinct, or thought and reaction.

Thought implies rationality.

And I DO spend time on the philosophy forum. But when somebody said Superman is faster than the speed of thought, I lost my nut. In a debate you should say what you mean and mean what you say, AND KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!

Besides, I like to argue.

That's all nice. Too bad I kinda don't care. Philosophy is buncha of bull in my opinion.

As I said it really has no place here. Philosophic thoughts are nowhere to be found. We all rely on science and feats.

And I passed my first philosophy class with a B. And I HATED it. The professor was SO stuck-up.

And what do you think science relies on? In fact, how do you think science developed?

Oh, and thanks for the wasting your time comment.

Curiousity. A search for understanding in this world. All of which may be called the common traits of philosophy, that may be true. However as I said taoism and Zen like thinking has no place here. It certainly help you win any arguement here. It's pure and utter violence.

You kinda did waste our time. We were discussing how Superman could and would defeat a foe. How. What. And When.

But suddenly the arguement for what thought should be defined as came on this board when it clearly has no place here.

Your statements were interesting. Though full of ego and harsh belittlement.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Am I in the Twilight Zone? Where do you get your "scientific fact" of how fast the speed of thought is? Actually its a theory. . and might not be right. . but the number we are working off of can be seen in the rules for the vs section.

Why no one is considering THE SMASHERS?

Originally posted by Dreampanther
"Magic isn't a superpower? Well I'll be.."

Superman has super powers, right? Does he have magical powers? Where did you learn to debate?
Nice non-sequiter. . .

All magic powers are superpowers, but not all superpowers are magic.

you guys do realize that we can kill superman with a bunch of high speed flash cameras.......

Originally posted by Dreampanther
"Thought processes ARE electrical impulses through the brain."

Right. That's why computers are thinking, reasoning, creative beings, instead of just tools we created to help us in our evolution. Because that's all thoughts are - just "electrical impulses through the brain". Hey, that must be why shock therapy is so effective in creating super geniuses!

"Unless you define thought as spiritual or something. Than that's something different"

That is EXACTLY what I am arguing. Another non-sequiter. .

All thoughts are electrical impulses, but not all electrical impulses are thought.

I like non-sequiters

Im serious.... a highspeed flash Camera would so do him in.....

Originally posted by Draco69
Curiousity. A search for understanding in this world. All of which may be called the common traits of philosophy, that may be true. However as I said taoism and Zen like thinking has no place here. It certainly help you win any arguement here. It's pure and utter violence.

You kinda did waste our time. We were discussing how Superman could and would defeat a foe. How. What. And When.

But suddenly the arguement for what thought should be defined as came on this board when it clearly has no place here.

Your statements were interesting. Though full of ego and harsh belittlement.

Sorry for the harshness, belittlement and ego. About the ego I can do nothing, I'm afraid, I am a legend in my own mind, after all

As for the harshness, again my apologies, I debate/argue/analyse for a living, and yes, I do tend to come down hard on weaknesses in arguments, that's what I get paid for.

But the debate got sidetracked when somebody claimed Superman was faster than the speed of thought. I just responded. I have very little tolerance for ignorance. Sorry again.

Originally posted by King KAM
Im serious.... a highspeed flash Camera would so do him in.....

Do you wish to expand on this statement? I must confess I haven't read Superman in ages, so you lost me a bit. . .

In our world, kryptonite is used in high-speed flash photography, for the flash, so TECHNICALLY if we all took pictures of Supes with these cameras, it would mess him up and eventually kill him.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Sorry for the harshness, belittlement and ego. About the ego I can do nothing, I'm afraid, I am a legend in my own mind, after all

As for the harshness, again my apologies, I debate/argue/analyse for a living, and yes, I do tend to come down hard on weaknesses in arguments, that's what I get paid for.

But the debate got sidetracked when somebody claimed Superman was faster than the speed of thought. I just responded. I have very little tolerance for ignorance. Sorry again. Attacking what you may percieve as the weakness is just a way of ignoring the body of an arguement. In this case you failed, and went off on a tangent disregarding the original thoughts. And eventually then you were proven wrong, because Superman is faster than thought, the forum rule says so... the one you're typing on.. Also, even the depowered Superman in Superman: Red Sun told the Green Lantern Marine Corp that he was faster than thought so their weapons based on thought were useless before smashing them. Besides, if he's faster than light speed, and hops in and out of Black holes, he's well beyond thought speed. Seriously.

Originally posted by King KAM
In our world, kryptonite is used in high-speed flash photography, for the flash, so TECHNICALLY if we all took pictures of Supes with these cameras, it would mess him up and eventually kill him. Different stuff.

Originally posted by King KAM
In our world, kryptonite is used in high-speed flash photography, for the flash, so TECHNICALLY if we all took pictures of Supes with these cameras, it would mess him up and eventually kill him. That's krypton. . . not kryptonite.

actually it is the same thing, its called kryptonite when solid, but when not its just called krypton but it is the same substance.

Originally posted by Juntai
Attacking what you may percieve as the weakness is just a way of ignoring the body of an arguement. In this case you failed, and went off on a tangent disregarding the original thoughts. And eventually then you were proven wrong, because Superman is faster than thought, the forum rule says so... the one you're typing on.. Also, even the depowered Superman in Superman: Red Sun told the Green Lantern Marine Corp that he was faster than thought so their weapons based on thought were useless before smashing them. Besides, if he's faster than light speed, and hops in and out of Black holes, he's well beyond thought speed. Seriously.

Concerning Superspeed

It's said that the speed of thought is about 30 m/s.
Note that it's meters per second, not miles
Reference:http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/DavidParizh.shtml
(Now this isn't in stone, if you feel you know something that you believe is better, then go with it)

Please refer to my previous statements, where I tried to explain to you the difference between reaction and thought.

And having a good, extensive, well-thought out argument, with a flaw, renders the argument null and void. Basic debating rules. A chain is only as good as its weakest link.

It's not the rock from his home-planet though.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Concerning Superspeed

It's said that the speed of thought is about 30 m/s.
Note that it's meters per second, not miles
Reference:http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/DavidParizh.shtml
(Now this isn't in stone, if you feel you know something that you believe is better, then go with it)

I'm going with science, rather.

And having a good, extensive, well-thought out argument, with a flaw, renders the argument null and void. Basic debating rules. A chain is only as good as its weakest link. But your attacking 'weakest links' failed miserably as you became subject to FORUM RULES. So what good is it now?

it doesnt actually matter , because it is still the same substance, carbon is carbon no matter where its found, its always gonna b carbon

Refer to my edited post, wher I refer to the difference between reaction (physical impulses transmitted via the neural system) and thought.

Or where is it I fail?

Originally posted by King KAM
it doesnt actually matter , because it is still the same substance, carbon is carbon no matter where its found, its always gonna b carbon Solidified krypton is white and crystalline, not green.

White Kryptonite: Kills all plant life, whether Kryptonian or not. Induces decay immediately upon exposure, with a range of about 25 yards.

but has no effect on non-plant life

Solidifeid krypton is not refered to as kryptonite:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kryptonite_%28disambiguation%29

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Refer to my edited post, wher I refer to the difference between reaction (physical impulses transmitted via the neural system) and thought.

Or where is it I fail? The part where you keep/kept claiming that Superman is NOT faster than thought, when the RULES of the forum you're on right now say he does?

Now we're arguing about our arguements?

And no matter HOW you split it kryptonite is not found on earth.

Originally posted by Juntai
The part where you keep/kept claiming that Superman is NOT faster than thought, when the RULES of the forum you're on right now say he does?

He's trying to make a distinction between thought and the synapse...apparently a concept that not everyone here can grasp.

Originally posted by Wynndar
He's trying to make a distinction between thought and the synapse...apparently a concept that not everyone here can grasp.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

See with the whole Superman Lex thing see Lex(i.e the bad guy) has tried killing Superman(the good guy) a lot and has failed each and every time Superman doesn't try to kill Lex but, stop him which he has been. Now to get back on topic Superman wins unlike most think Batman is not the only JLA member who's smart and uses and is good with prep time. He'll most likely destroy all the missiles first and attack the BIG countries first i.e. America,Japan,England, etc then he'll keep the third world countries like Iraq, Mexico as slaves.

It doesn't even take the kind of power Superman has. You give me even a fraction of the kind of power he wields, and I can bring the world to its knees, no sweat. Guarantee it.

Part of the problem is it's difficult to even pinpoint a single target (although it helps a little that it's a target in goofy blue-and-red spandex), much less a target with the kind of mobility Superman has. Entire governments can have trouble locating a single NON-POWERED person (not that I believe our government ever REALLY cared about getting bin Laden to begin with, but that's political, so I won't go there). Superman could easily remain hidden indefinitely if he desired -- not that he'd NEED to since even if he just stood there and said, "Go ahead and give it your best, everyone" we STILL couldn't stop him.

Hell, you know what? I could take down the world with Superman's super-speed alone. No other powers. Who would stop me? With what? With that kind of power, I could take over any military installation you care to name in minutes, easy. I'd make a personal playpen of Area 51 for the sheer hell of it.

Ditto if I had just his invulnerability and nothing else, though it would take a lot longer to get everything done then.

Now if I only had his strength ... well, that would be problematic. I'd be killed by weapons then.

Good points, well made, Orestes.