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Juggernaut vs Thing
juggy does not has his precious plot device gem

u mean he is powerless?

he is a mutant, isn't he?

I think he means depowered juggernaut when he was a good guy, though the way he worder it would make him powerless lol.

Originally posted by manx422
he is a mutant, isn't he?
nope.

Thing, imo.

Originally posted by manx422
Juggernaut vs Thing
juggy does not has his precious plot device gem

So it's Cain Marko?

Wow, great thread.

I think he got confused, which would be easy if one has not read current WWH arc. It was believed for a bit that his gem left him thats why he was in a depowered ish state which is clearly what this person is speaking of, however it was revealed durign WWH/X-m\Men that his power and gem had been there all along.

hwoever this perosn simply mean non full powered juggernaut or also known as good juggernaut

Originally posted by -Pr-
Thing, imo.
I am not so sure about that, if were not talking completely powerless Juggs.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I am not so sure about that, if were not talking completely powerless Juggs.

if he's talking about depowered, class 100 juggy (that was a member of the x-men), then i say thing...

Yeah, but good Juggs was bleeding just cause a few plant roots got shoved up his ass.

Originally posted by -Pr-
if he's talking about depowered, class 100 juggy (that was a member of the x-men), then i say thing...

Class 100 would sitll make him stronger then Thing. I also not so sure Thing has this. Juggs was taking it to Sas, but when Thing faught Sas he got man handle. Just some food for thought.

Originally posted by Placidity
Yeah, but good Juggs was bleeding just cause a few plant roots got shoved up his ass.
Low showings arnt the norm, nor is piercing attacks the same as blunt assaults.

Originally posted by manx422
he is a mutant, isn't he?

Originally posted by Placidity
Yeah, but good Juggs was bleeding just cause a few plant roots got shoved up his ass.

wouldn't most people bleed if they got plants shoved up their ass?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Class 100 would sitll make him stronger then Thing. I also not so sure Thing has this. Juggs was taking it to Sas, but when Thing faught Sas he got man handle. Just some food for thought.

that juggernaut was also told he was struggling to match colossus.

Originally posted by -Pr-
that juggernaut was also told he was struggling to match colossus.
Not in a fight, in strength. It was also more of a japp at him then anything elses. Havok said your not even at colossus level yet, which was almost used as a motivator, right after it was said he throw up the weight. That certainly does not mean Thing beats him. When Juggernauts already shown to beat on an individual Thing got smashed down by twice if not mistaken. Also Juggernaut took it to his avatar who She Hulk who also another class 100 and stronger then Thing was hurting her fists on.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Not in a fight, in strength. It was also more of a japp at him then anything elses. Havok said your not even at colossus level yet, which was almost used as a motivator, right after it was said he throw up the weight. That certainly does not mean Thing beats him. When Juggernauts already shown to beat on an individual Thing got smashed down by twice if not mistaken. Also Juggernaut took it to his avatar who She Hulk who also another class 100 and stronger then Thing was hurting her fists on.

Using Sasquatch alone isn't sufficient proof imo, and Thing is close enough to class 100 to beat Cain, imo.

Originally posted by manx422
he is a mutant, isn't he?

facepalm


Depowerednaut rips his heart out.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Using Sasquatch alone isn't sufficient proof imo, and Thing is close enough to class 100 to beat Cain, imo.
I aint just using Sas fight. What have you been using? An off hand comment about his strength is not more vital then a fight with a similar character?

How about the fact he shown to do more damage and be more durable then a class 100 in the name of she hulk?

What gives Thing the majority here? You really have no brought anything forward for why Thing takes it.

All you have said is Thing wins, or that Thing is closes enough to a class 100 to beat Cain. But neither give a reason, when does being closes to class 100 mean you beat a legitment class 100 who also more durable?

Also Juggernaut took it to Sas, Vindicator and Mac all where Hulk Buster armor as well if not mistaken.

Now Thing could very well win, but you brought less proof forward for your reasoning on the matter then I have.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I aint just using Sas fight. What have you been using? An off hand comment about his strength is not more vital then a fight with a similar character?

How about the fact he shown to do more damage and be more durable then a class 100 in the name of she hulk?

What gives Thing the majority here? You really have no brought anything forward for why Thing takes it.

All you have said is Thing wins, or that Thing is closes enough to a class 100 to beat Cain. But neither give a reason, when does being closes to class 100 mean you beat a legitment class 100 who also more durable?

Now Thing could very well win, but you brought less proof forward for your reasoning on the matter then I have.

ok...

I think he's strong enough, durable enough, and more skilled in fighting. that enough for you?

Originally posted by -Pr-
ok...

I think he's strong enough, durable enough, and more skilled in fighting. that enough for you?
Based on what?

He not as Strong, He not as durable. He really not shown such skill enough to make up for such disadvantages. She Hulk almost if not as skilled as Thing and we saw how her and Cain did against his avatar, Cain did much better.

Then we have how each did against Sas. Thing got destroy. Juggernaut took it to him even when he had Hulk Buster armor on.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Based on what?

He not as Strong, He not as durable. He really not shown such skill enough to make up for such disadvantages. She Hulk almost if not as skilled as Thing and we saw how her and Cain did against his avatar, Cain did much better.

Then we have how each did against Sas. Thing got destroy. Juggernaut took it to him even when he had Hulk Buster armor on.

based on reading the comics.

i didn't say he was AS strong or AS durable. i said ENOUGH. she-hulk is not on thing's level. where did you hear that?

are you talking about the comic after she-hulk slept with him?

Originally posted by -Pr-
based on reading the comics.

i didn't say he was AS strong or AS durable. i said ENOUGH. she-hulk is not on thing's level. where did you hear that?

are you talking about the comic after she-hulk slept with him?
Really I have read almost all of both aperances, so I would really like some examples.



Enough? based on what? She-Hulk not on thing level? Really based on what? Hell she shown some of the best pure skill feats of most bricks including thing. She also a legit class 100 something thing can't even say.


yes I am.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Really I have read almost all of both aperances, so I would really like some examples.



Enough? based on what? She-Hulk not on thing level? Really based on what? Hell she shown some of the best pure skill feats of most bricks including thing. She also a legit class 100 something thing can't even say.


yes I am.

the caliber of being Thing has gone up against. The Champion, Gladiator, and so on.

I never said She-hulk wasn't good. I said i simply believe she's not on Thing's level.

So in a comic that centres around Juggernaut, you honestly think they would show She-Hulk doing well? If it was a She-Hulk comic, you don't think the result would have been any different?

Originally posted by -Pr-
the caliber of being Thing has gone up against. The Champion, Gladiator, and so on.

I never said She-hulk wasn't good. I said i simply believe she's not on Thing's level.

So in a comic that centres around Juggernaut, you honestly think they would show She-Hulk doing well? If it was a She-Hulk comic, you don't think the result would have been any different?
She Hulk beat Champion. Thing got stomp by champion in his own style of style of fighting. Gladiator? which issue was that? Taking on high level characters means very little if you getting stomp by them.


You cna believe that, but what are you basing it on. Is it simply bias? or on a certain event or events.


so your going to dismiss a comic becuase juggernaut was the main character? so are we to dismiss spiderman own comics as evdiences now? becuases he the centeral figure or how about superman or any other number of characters. No I dont think it would have been. Wolverine done better then she hulk in a she hulk comic.

Paul, what kind of crazy stuff are you on about now? She Hulk would trash Ben.

without the gem he is powerless

And here we go again...
He is not powerless without gem. He is just fine. He doesn't needs to carry it around or something.
His power level depends on another things. Though, of course it would be diminished if gem was used to grant Cyttorak's enchantments to someone else...
So, why does everyone...
Aha! I got it! This thread is about Ultimate Juggernaut! Now it all makes sense, and he loses.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
She Hulk beat Champion. Thing got stomp by champion in his own style of style of fighting. Gladiator? which issue was that? Taking on high level characters means very little if you getting stomp by them.


You cna believe that, but what are you basing it on. Is it simply bias? or on a certain event or events.


so your going to dismiss a comic becuase juggernaut was the main character? so are we to dismiss spiderman own comics as evdiences now? becuases he the centeral figure or how about superman or any other number of characters. No I dont think it would have been. Wolverine done better then she hulk in a she hulk comic.

i know She Hulk beat Champion. This match isn't Thing v She-Hulk.

Bias? Please. She-Hulk is one of my favourite characters. She's even on my roster in MUA.

Don't throw words like "bias" around so lightly.

Oh good lord. Dude. Seriously. I am not saying that at all. i am simply saying that comic was a low showing for She-Hulk, because she does much better in her own books.

She'd beat depowered Juggy, and she'd beat Thing, imo.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Paul, what kind of crazy stuff are you on about now? She Hulk would trash Ben.

i never said she wouldn't beat him in a fight. jeez...

Originally posted by manx422
he is a mutant, isn't he?

No he's a freaking human. You just put Thing vs an old man.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i know She Hulk beat Champion. This match isn't Thing v She-Hulk.

Bias? Please. She-Hulk is one of my favourite characters. She's even on my roster in MUA.

Don't throw words like "bias" around so lightly.

Oh good lord. Dude. Seriously. I am not saying that at all. i am simply saying that comic was a low showing for She-Hulk, because she does much better in her own books.

She'd beat depowered Juggy, and she'd beat Thing, imo.



i never said she wouldn't beat him in a fight. jeez...
I know, I was not certain who you were referring to. In direct comparisons between individual Juggernaut and Thing, Juggernauts faired better, The examples you brought forth Thing got beat down by one individual which hardly gives him the ability to beat Juggernaut and I not even sure he ever even fought the other example you brought forth and I am assuming I right sinces you did not comment on it further in this post.

I was asking, not saying you were. I personally like Thing better my self.

bias so lightly? I asked a question, was not ment to be insulting which is why I worder it so.

Thats how it came out, go re read what you said that just how it sounded. Your saying it a low showing for she-hulk? or maybe it was spot on? she been depicted less impressive in her very own comics before.

I still want to know why Thing wins. Yet to so a solid reason back by evidence or event that could not be counter.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I know, I was not certain who you were referring to. In direct comparisons between individual Juggernaut and Thing, Juggernauts faired better, The examples you brought forth Thing got beat down by one individual which hardly gives him the ability to beat Juggernaut and I not even sure he ever even fought the other example you brought forth and I am assuming I right sinces you did not comment on it further in this post.

I was asking, not saying you were. I personally like Thing better my self.

bias so lightly? I asked a question, was not ment to be insulting which is why I worder it so.

Thats how it came out, go re read what you said that just how it sounded. Your saying it a low showing for she-hulk? or maybe it was spot on? she been depicted less impressive in her very own comics before.

I still want to know why Thing wins. Yet to so a solid reason back by evidence or event that could not be counter.

Given her record as the years have gone by, she should have done much better against the avatar than Cain did, and yet she didn't. My point was that if it had been her own book, i could see the fight going much differently.

I said why i thought he'd win. just because it's not enough for you doesn't mean it's not good enough for me... shrug

Originally posted by manx422
Juggernaut vs Thing
juggy does not has his precious plot device gem

How is the Gem of Cyttorak a plot device item anyway? It's ok to hate the character, but come on dude.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Given her record as the years have gone by, she should have done much better against the avatar than Cain did, and yet she didn't. My point was that if it had been her own book, i could see the fight going much differently.

I said why i thought he'd win. just because it's not enough for you doesn't mean it's not good enough for me... shrug

Not really cain even depowered was shown as a powerful brick. Hell his encounters with Sas back this up. Sas one of the more powerful Brick and cain was bashing his faces in. She-Hulk not faiirng as well is hardly a low showing. In her own book she was dropepd several times by wendigo while wolverine kept on fighting. It being or not being her book would not have effected how she was displayed and really is not a valid excuse.


Except youve really given nothing at all. Ive brought dirrect comparison to the table, and all uve said is his skill will make him win......and even that I had a counter for.....anyone can think what they want does not make them right or even closes to it. look at masterbruces career on the boards prove this lol.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Not really cain even depowered was shown as a powerful brick. Hell his encounters with Sas back this up. Sas one of the more powerful Brick and cain was bashing his faces in. She-Hulk not faiirng as well is hardly a low showing. In her own book she was dropepd several times by wendigo while wolverine kept on fighting. It being or not being her book would not have effected how she was displayed and really is not a valid excuse.


Except youve really given nothing at all. Ive brought dirrect comparison to the table, and all uve said is his skill will make him win......and even that I had a counter for.....anyone can think what they want does not make them right or even closes to it. look at masterbruces career on the boards prove this lol.

wolverine is different. that's like saying batman doing better than superman in his own comic means that batman is somehow superior. wolverine, like batman, is the guest star everyone defers to. it happens to a few other characters too.

it's valid imo.

i did give you reasons. just because you don't like them doesn't mean i have to go out of my way to satisfy your reasoning. i didn't find your counter to be satisfactory, because it didn't change my mind.

you could very well apply the same logic to your argument...

Originally posted by -Pr-
wolverine is different. that's like saying batman doing better than superman in his own comic means that batman is somehow superior. wolverine, like batman, is the guest star everyone defers to. it happens to a few other characters too.

it's valid imo.

i did give you reasons. just because you don't like them doesn't mean i have to go out of my way to satisfy your reasoning. i didn't find your counter to be satisfactory, because it didn't change my mind.

you could very well apply the same logic to your argument...
more or less seems like double standards to me and excuses. It really not valid, your saying that becuases it not her comic it not usable evidence pritty much and that she was down graded for the issue, which could be said for any character in another comic. seems like double standards.

Your stubborn, you dident even have counters or even arguements. all you said was Thing wins through skill with out giving any evdiences and ignoring or making excuses for what I brought forth. Sas aint as skill as Thing but he thrashed him twices. Juggs took Sas with Hulk Buster armor on plus vendictor. Then he took Sas later and beat him along with taking on other like puck at the time.

What gives you the believe Thing wins......asside from skill which again you have yet to give a valid reason.

Not really actaully. I given reason, events, diretc comparision. Your arguement has been ben mroe skilled......really really......come on now. seem like crap to be. You have not even given an event or anything for your reasoning....hell the only event you brought forth was an off hand comment about Jugg strength........

Originally posted by Battlehammer
more or less seems like double standards to me and excuses. It really not valid, your saying that becuases it not her comic it not usable evidence pritty much and that she was down graded for the issue, which could be said for any character in another comic. seems like double standards.

Your stubborn, you dident even have counters or even arguements. all you said was Thing wins through skill with out giving any evdiences and ignoring or making excuses for what I brought forth. Sas aint as skill as Thing but he thrashed him twices. Juggs took Sas with Hulk Buster armor on plus vendictor. Then he took Sas later and beat him along with taking on other like puck at the time.

What gives you the believe Thing wins......asside from skill which again you have yet to give a valid reason.

Not really actaully. I given reason, events, diretc comparision. Your arguement has been ben mroe skilled......really really......come on now. seem like crap to be. You have not even given an event or anything for your reasoning....hell the only event you brought forth was an off hand comment about Jugg strength........

it's neither. and that's not what i'm saying.

why do i have to make counters to you in particular? i gave my opinion. you asked me why, and i told you why.

i already told you. imo, he's strong enough, durable enough, skilled enough to beat cain, based on the quality of opponent he's faced in the past. if that's not enough for you, then stop asking me for more.

in your opinion.

I dont even have a problem about what you think, it the why. It seems more bias then anything. Your not really making an arguement for Ben. actaully uve made zero arguements really aside form Ben being more skilled. Then you have yet to bring an event or reason for it. You could event be right, but your arguements seem lazy, and truthfully no matter what I bring forth you will ignore it, is the vibe I am getting. Seems like I could argue your side better........and I might even some Juggernaut fanboys come on here.

Thing wins.

Cain was still powerful, durable, and strong even depowered but not so much that Thing couldn't take him down.


For those high showings of his where he could give as good as he got, the slip side he would get gored by Rhino, beaten to pulp by the wreaking crew, yadda, yadda.

The point is Thing's durability is still great, when comes to this level bricks his fighting experience and toughness are almost second to none.

He would beat Cain on H2H alone.

Cain could take wins but I'd give the majority to Thing. More used to fighting this way on this level, I would argue just as if not more durable then Cain was at this level, and if it came down to a battle of wills, Thing's heart would give him the win against this Cain's Rage. Why because this version of Juggernaut very much seemed to have a muzzle put on him.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I dont even have a problem about what you think, it the why. It seems more bias then anything. Your not really making an arguement for Ben. actaully uve made zero arguements really aside form Ben being more skilled. Then you have yet to bring an event or reason for it. You could event be right, but your arguements seem lazy, and truthfully no matter what I bring forth you will ignore it, is the vibe I am getting. Seems like I could argue your side better........and I might even some Juggernaut fanboys come on here.

how could i be biased? i don't even like ben that much.

just because you don't approve of the way i make my point, doesn't make it lazy or mean i'll ignore what you're saying. i've read every word you've posted. me not agreeing gives you no right to presume to tell me that my arguments are somehow less valid than yours.

Originally posted by -Pr-
it's neither. and that's not what i'm saying.

why do i have to make counters to you in particular? i gave my opinion. you asked me why, and i told you why.

i already told you. imo, he's strong enough, durable enough, skilled enough to beat cain, based on the quality of opponent he's faced in the past. if that's not enough for you, then stop asking me for more.

in your opinion.
Thats what it comes off as,

In debates we argue, counter ect. espsically when were quoting one another, but hey if you dont wanna debate the matter I am fine with it.

Your arguement is he wins through superior skill, dispite the fact he faield to vs sas. Juggernaut fair better against an opponent a stronger and just as skilled a brick as thing could do. What quality opponents would theses be? seem more like your arguement is "Thing has more appearances so he wins".

I will stop asking since it clear your not putting in the effort or care enough about the debate, hell I am surprise your even responding.


aside from that how have you been doing.

Sorry, didn't he 1 or 2-shotted Rhino?
And he was much weaker when Wrecking crew beat on him.

Ben bonks Juggy like this:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/Marvel/Marvel%20Scans/logan12jz.jpg

biscuits

Originally posted by Survivor19
Sorry, didn't he 1 or 2-shotted Rhino?
And he was much weaker when Wrecking crew beat on him.

I doubt Manx meant this version of Cain, but the version everyone debating is the same one the Crew beat on.

In Cain's defense Jak, the Crew does have Asgardian strength and stuff.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Thats what it comes off as,

In debates we argue, counter ect. espsically when were quoting one another, but hey if you dont wanna debate the matter I am fine with it.

Your arguement is he wins through superior skill, dispite the fact he faield to vs sas. Juggernaut fair better against an opponent a stronger and just as skilled a brick as thing could do. What quality opponents would theses be? seem more like your arguement is "Thing has more appearances so he wins".

I will stop asking since it clear your not putting in the effort or care enough about the debate, hell I am surprise your even responding.


aside from that how have you been doing.

to you.

i never did. i wanted to give my opinion and leave the thread, as i am in no way prepared to go through fantastic four comics looking for feats.

, i'm ok, thanks for asking. you?

lol edit

Originally posted by Battlehammer
lol edit

i said quality of opponent. not quantity.

Originally posted by -Pr-
to you.

i never did. i wanted to give my opinion and leave the thread, as i am in no way prepared to go through fantastic four comics looking for feats.

, i'm ok, thanks for asking. you?
lol

then why did you not say so to begin with, just wasted 20 minuts going through crap lol.



no problem, I am fine. You get a new job? how canada treating you.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i said quality of opponent. not quantity.
lol

Originally posted by Battlehammer
lol

then why did you not say so to begin with, just wasted 20 minuts going through crap lol.



no problem, I am fine. You get a new job? how canada treating you.

hey, you replied to me.

im ok, job interview today. canada's not bad. starting to get colder with winter coming in, but i deal with cold a lot better than i do with heat...

Stay on topic, Raoul.

Thanks.

Originally posted by -Pr-
hey, you replied to me.

im ok, job interview today. canada's not bad. starting to get colder with winter coming in, but i deal with cold a lot better than i do with heat...
lol you suck


Nice, hope you get it. It gunna get dam cold lol. I agree the heat sucks

Originally posted by Mindset
Stay on topic, Raoul.

Thanks.

uhuh

Originally posted by Battlehammer
lol you suck


Nice, hope you get it. It gunna get dam cold lol. I agree the heat sucks



thanks man. yeah, i've never been that good with heat myself either. anything in the mid to high 20s is uncomfortably warm for most irish people...

Originally posted by -Pr-
uhuh





thanks man. yeah, i've never been that good with heat myself either. anything in the mid to high 20s is uncomfortably warm for most irish people...
lol


welx. Me either. 20's...........what that freezing lol and im from boston.

Originally posted by -Pr-
uhuh





thanks man. yeah, i've never been that good with heat myself either. anything in the mid to high 20s is uncomfortably warm for most irish people... Alcohol must keep you Irish very warm. durink

Originally posted by Battlehammer
lol


welx. Me either. 20's...........what that freezing lol and im from boston.

probably better that i picked canada over america.

Originally posted by Badabing
Alcohol must keep you Irish very warm. durink

sometimes.

Ultimate Juggernaut is a mutant maybe thats the one the thread maker was talking about.