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1)Legion is AoA causing status
2)Cable is God-like status
3)X-man is Shaman status
4)Rachel is at her peak Phoenixforce access
5)Franklin is Celestial status

Who takes this???

i would say either franklin or legion. probly franklin, hes overpowered.

This battle is between Rachel and Franklin. Rachel wins

its between legion and franklin, legion is stronger than cable and nate.....plus hed just set them all on fire.....but Franklin is FAR beyond any other mutant EVER, meaning he would freaking kill apoc like is was nothing.

Originally posted by King KAM
its between legion and franklin, legion is stronger than cable and nate.....plus hed just set them all on fire.....but Franklin is FAR beyond any other mutant EVER, meaning he would freaking kill apoc like is was nothing.

He really isnt. Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Theres a beautiful redhead who is often referred to as the "ultimate mutation"

Franklin is Celestial level at full power. The Celestials in the 616 reality are servants of Eternity. Rachel tapping into Phoenix would win this, Franklin would come second, followed by X-man, Cable, then Legion. That show it ranks power wise. Remember that Legion was drawing on the energies of the M'kraan crystal to do his time travelling and to empower himself. He cant do it under his own abilities.

Yeah, Rachel takes this. She has the power to do what all the others can, and then some.

GS that is why everyone hates you, rachel loses okay..... Franklin is too powerful, let your damn phoenix phantasies die, nobody cares about the crack-jack logic you give behind it, phoenix sucks.....plain and simple....and Franklin rules. nuff said.

Originally posted by King KAM
GS that is why everyone hates you, rachel loses okay..... Franklin is too powerful, let your damn phoenix phantasies die, nobody cares about the crack-jack logic you give behind it, phoenix sucks.....plain and simple....and Franklin rules. nuff said.

And still rachel wins

Dont hate me because of your ignorance.

I wasnt the only one to vote Rachel.

You are the ignorant one.......you like phoenix, nuff said

Originally posted by King KAM
You are the ignorant one.......you like phoenix, nuff said

You vote against phoenix because you dont like her

How very mature and objective you are. Youre a valuable part of this forum

Let's see...someone who can warp reality versus someone who can warp, rewrite, recreate, or remove reality, space, time, etc.

A non-Phoenix Rachel created a localized black hole and sealed it. My money's still on Rachel.

Franklin.

yes Rachel and Franklin, Rachel right now is pretty much fluctuating so she'll lose, but she is yet to tap into Phoenix potential. Franklin <whoo> practically no other competition

Reed's kid wins.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
He really isnt. Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Theres a beautiful redhead who is often referred to as the "ultimate mutation"

Franklin is Celestial level at full power. The Celestials in the 616 reality are servants of Eternity. Rachel tapping into Phoenix would win this, Franklin would come second, followed by X-man, Cable, then Legion. That show it ranks power wise. Remember that Legion was drawing on the energies of the M'kraan crystal to do his time travelling and to empower himself. He cant do it under his own abilities.

Actually, being that Franklin Richards's power is to manipulate reality as he wants, then he wins.

I'm not trying to take anything away from you or Phoenix. I usually agree with your posts (even though you really don't let anything beat Phoenix at all...), but in the case of a fight against someone who can basically blink and wipe her from existence...

Well, you get the picture.

Reality Manipulation>>>>Rachel as Phoenix

She would definitely be the close second though.

I'm going with Rachel. Phoenix force just strikes me as a little more impressive than a little kid who is somewhere in the neighborhood of a Celestial in power.

1.) Rachel (you all saw Living Tribunal kneeling before Phoenix, she is not like Jean, but still enough to take Franklin)
2.) Franklin (at full power I consider his power beyond Celestail or Full powered Galcatus, but still not enough for Rachel)
Those two are far ahead.

3.) X-Man
4.) Cable
5.) Legion

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Originally posted by King KAM
GS that is why everyone hates you, rachel loses okay..... Franklin is too powerful, let your damn phoenix phantasies die, nobody cares about the crack-jack logic you give behind it, phoenix sucks.....plain and simple....and Franklin rules. nuff said.
Dont hate me because of your ignorance.
Isn't ignorance one of the most common reasons for hatred?!
Don't mind him GS.

I tend to agree with your list GS, though i'm not as sure about Rachel and Legion as you are.
I listed Legion in a state when he was at least 100 times stronger than Xavier...without training! He was able to manipulate time, matter and energy without ANY effort and the X-Men, including Jean, Charles and an all out Storm, weren't even able to get his attention!
Rachel on the other hand is quite powerful as a Phoenix-avatar but far from being her mothers level...i think.

I know PF wins butt................ I vote for FR

Originally posted by ImmortalOne
I know PF wins butt................ I vote for FR
It's not about the Phoenix-Force but about Rachel, a lesser PF-avatar...big difference!

okay here it is,

FRANKLIN RICHARDS wins no question about it, {and yes it would be lovely to not hear any more pheonix fantasies gs, } a mutant that can create universes{unaided by abstracts} without any effort will destroy even the pheonix force let alone a weaker avatar of the pheonix than jean.

2. NATE GREY, in his shaman days his power levels were reaching the point where they were comparable to dark pheonix, he is the ultimate mutant after franklin and always wiill be, which is further supported by him dying and killing the harvesters and recharging with his energied the depleted energy of earth and all the beings living on it.

3. CABLE, RACHEL {with pheonix force} , okay, im callin it a tie, even though god cable is ridiculously strong, he still hasnt shown as much power as that of dark pheonix, but the same is true for rachel with the pheonix force, she is a weaker avatar of the pheonix force, still incredibly powerful so it is hard to choose one out of em.

4. LEGION, probably higher in power than scarlet witch and almost equal to proteus, he is a very powerful opponent, but infront of the likes of cable and the second pheonix avatar, hes gonna loose badly.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
okay here it is,

FRANKLIN RICHARDS wins no question about it, {and yes it would be lovely to not hear any more pheonix fantasies gs, } a mutant that can create universes{unaided by abstracts} without any effort will destroy even the pheonix force let alone a weaker avatar of the pheonix than jean.

2. NATE GREY, in his shaman days his power levels were reaching the point where they were comparable to dark pheonix, he is the ultimate mutant after franklin and always wiill be, which is further supported by him dying and killing the harvesters and recharging with his energied the depleted energy of earth and all the beings living on it.

3. CABLE, RACHEL {with pheonix force} , okay, im callin it a tie, even though god cable is ridiculously strong, he still hasnt shown as much power as that of dark pheonix, but the same is true for rachel with the pheonix force, she is a weaker avatar of the pheonix force, still incredibly powerful so it is hard to choose one out of em.

4. LEGION, probably higher in power than scarlet witch and almost equal to proteus, he is a very powerful opponent, but infront of the likes of cable and the second pheonix avatar, hes gonna loose badly.
Wow. You give Legion WAY TOO MUCH credit, and you're selling Cable short. Nate Grey was impressive as a shaman, but Cable has way better showings with his power. I'm still not convinced Franklin is above Rachel. When did he create a universe?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
okay here it is,

FRANKLIN RICHARDS wins no question about it, {and yes it would be lovely to not hear any more pheonix fantasies gs, } a mutant that can create universes{unaided by abstracts} without any effort will destroy even the pheonix force let alone a weaker avatar of the pheonix than jean.

2. NATE GREY, in his shaman days his power levels were reaching the point where they were comparable to dark pheonix, he is the ultimate mutant after franklin and always wiill be, which is further supported by him dying and killing the harvesters and recharging with his energied the depleted energy of earth and all the beings living on it.

3. CABLE, RACHEL {with pheonix force} , okay, im callin it a tie, even though god cable is ridiculously strong, he still hasnt shown as much power as that of dark pheonix, but the same is true for rachel with the pheonix force, she is a weaker avatar of the pheonix force, still incredibly powerful so it is hard to choose one out of em.

4. LEGION, probably higher in power than scarlet witch and almost equal to proteus, he is a very powerful opponent, but infront of the likes of cable and the second pheonix avatar, hes gonna loose badly.

I know you hate phoenix but you'll only lose credibility arguing against her not through having a logical counter argument but merely because you dont like the character. Hmmmm

This battle is indeed between Rachel and Franklin and the end result is debatable because while Rachel was certainly more powerful she was scared to truly tap into her power for fear of the damage she could do if she lost control.

As for your commenting on Jean, dont be ridiculous Leon we both know thats not true. Lets be adults about this

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I know you hate phoenix but you'll only lose credibility arguing against her not through having a logical counter argument but merely because you dont like the character. Hmmmm

This battle is indeed between Rachel and Franklin and the end result is debatable because while Rachel was certainly more powerful she was scared to truly tap into her power for fear of the damage she could do if she lost control.

As for your commenting on Jean, dont be ridiculous Leon we both know thats not true. Lets be adults about this

i TRY to be an adult with u but ur as stubborn as a new born, i havent lost any credibilty arguin against her until now , what makes u think i would now, but u should be more worried about urself losin ur credibilty if u keep on arguin for her{if u have any left that is}, and if u must know, i liked pheonix just FINE before u came along and made me start hatin the character{same goes for silver surfer}

anyway, it may be true that rachel can surpass god cable but she wont be surpassin nate and DEFINATELY not franklin.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
i TRY to be an adult with u but ur as stubborn as a new born, i havent lost any credibilty arguin against her until now , what makes u think i would now, but u should be more worried about urself losin ur credibilty if u keep on arguin for her{if u have any left that is}, and if u must know, i liked pheonix just FINE before u came along and made me start hatin the character{same goes for silver surfer}

anyway, it may be true that rachel can surpass god cable but she wont be surpassin nate and DEFINATELY not franklin.

As a wielder of the phoenix force we both know that she would surpass Nate. Thats not debateable. Its Franklin who is the problem because Rachel as phoenix was too scared to use her full power. So its a toss up between those two because Rachel was nowhere near Jean who is a true avatar.

I'll stop talking about phoenix when i stop seeing stupid comments about her. We both no what phoenixes role is in Marvel. Theres a wealth of evidence both comic book wise and online. Look heres another:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_Beings

You dont have to like the character, but show youre mature and objective by being logical about her in debates. If you hate the character yet you can still do that then thats a credit to you. Just think about it.

Originally posted by Khellendros
Wow. You give Legion WAY TOO MUCH credit, and you're selling Cable short. Nate Grey was impressive as a shaman, but Cable has way better showings with his power. I'm still not convinced Franklin is above Rachel. When did he create a universe?
Again:
I listed Legion in a state when he was at least 100 times stronger than Xavier...without training! He was able to manipulate time, matter and energy without ANY effort and the X-Men, including Jean, Charles and an all out Storm, weren't even able to get his attention!
Rachel on the other hand is quite powerful as a Phoenix-avatar but far from being her mothers level...i think.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As a wielder of the phoenix force we both know that she would surpass Nate. Thats not debateable. Its Franklin who is the problem because Rachel as phoenix was too scared to use her full power. So its a toss up between those two because Rachel was nowhere near Jean who is a true avatar.

I'll stop talking about phoenix when i stop seeing stupid comments about her. We both no what phoenixes role is in Marvel. Theres a wealth of evidence both comic book wise and online. Look heres another:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_Beings

You dont have to like the character, but show youre mature and objective by being logical about her in debates. If you hate the character yet you can still do that then thats a credit to you. Just think about it.


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU REALLY HAVE OUTDONE URSELF IN STUPIDITY THIS TIME GS, DID U EVEN "LOOK" AT WHAT WAS WRITTEN ON THE PAGE THAT LINK WAS FOR?! IT SAYS THERE THAT PHEONIX IS BELOW THE INBETWEENER, SO WHAT U WANTED TO DO WAS JUST POST A STUPID LINK THINKIN THAT NO1 WOULD VISIT, AND IN THE PROCESS PROVIN EVERYTHIN UVE SAID ABOUT PHEONIX WRONG{heck the site even gives pheonix less credit than her current LOGICAL retcon}, ANYWAY U DO RELIZE THAT WERE TALKIN ABOUT "RACHEL" AS PHEONIX HERE RIGHT, SHE HAD VERY LIL POWER OVER THE ACTUAL FORCE MUCH LIKE JEAN GREY, SO DAR PHEONIX OR RACHEL ARE NOT IN ANY WAY ON THE LEVEL OF THE FORCE ITSELF{oh n btw, the site also defines the pheonix as a being with no sentiense not jean or the power of TOAA} and the force is still what it was before, the manifestation off all life yet unborn and all passion, its just been amped a lil bit to make it a serious player among universal abstracts like eternity and death.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
i TRY to be an adult with u but ur as stubborn as a new born

I'm torn between saying this is ironic or hypocritical... hmmm...

Originally posted by leonheartmm
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU REALLY HAVE OUTDONE URSELF IN STUPIDITY THIS TIME GS, DID U EVEN "LOOK" AT WHAT WAS WRITTEN ON THE PAGE THAT LINK WAS FOR?! IT SAYS THERE THAT PHEONIX IS BELOW THE INBETWEENER, SO WHAT U WANTED TO DO WAS JUST POST A STUPID LINK THINKIN THAT NO1 WOULD VISIT, AND IN THE PROCESS PROVIN EVERYTHIN UVE SAID ABOUT PHEONIX WRONG{heck the site even gives pheonix less credit than her current LOGICAL retcon}, ANYWAY U DO RELIZE THAT WERE TALKIN ABOUT "RACHEL" AS PHEONIX HERE RIGHT, SHE HAD VERY LIL POWER OVER THE ACTUAL FORCE MUCH LIKE JEAN GREY, SO DAR PHEONIX OR RACHEL ARE NOT IN ANY WAY ON THE LEVEL OF THE FORCE ITSELF{oh n btw, the site also defines the pheonix as a being with no sentiense not jean or the power of TOAA} and the force is still what it was before, the manifestation off all life yet unborn and all passion, its just been amped a lil bit to make it a serious player among universal abstracts like eternity and death.

Leon see herein lies the problem. You really dont acknowledge the contributions of others properly which leads to you misinterpreting info and then getting frustrated and aggressive when people dont know what the hell you're talking about, like now.

If you revisit that link you'll see that the names werent listed in order of power as you have misinterpreted. There is no order. If you read the entries you'll see it says that sometimes the Living Tribunal is called the most powerful cosmic in Marvel , however Phoenix is often accreditted with this title and is declared the most powerful known force in the marvel multiverse.

Have a look again and read it properly to prevent yourself looking silly again.

Also i know this is about Rachel which is why i have said all along its between Franklin and Rachel. The reason i mentioned Jean was because of your ignorant comments and your habit of arguing against not because you have evidence against her but merely because you dont like her.

kay then, FR wins.......

But I still dont understand how SHaman Nate is so immensely POWERFUL ??

maybe every1 should read that list again, is it just a coincidence that every being is perfectly written in their order in the heirarchy.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
maybe every1 should read that list again, is it just a coincidence that every being is perfectly written in their order in the heirarchy.

Give it up Leon. You misread, you spouted a load of false accusations, you ended up looking silly, accept it like a man.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
maybe every1 should read that list again, is it just a coincidence that every being is perfectly written in their order in the heirarchy.
Perfect order to YOUR opinion about that hierarchy perhaps.
Strange, that the descriptions fo the given beings are creating another hierarchy!!!

Btw...accepting being wrong when your wrong is not a shameful thing, but a sign of dignity and maturity!

Didn't Rachael as Phoenix lose to Set?

I know it was in a different universe, but everyone else in the comic is pretty much proportionate in power to their 616 counterparts.

Originally posted by Maestro
Didn't Rachael as Phoenix lose to Set?

I know it was in a different universe, but everyone else in the comic is pretty much proportionate in power to their 616 counterparts.

She most certainly did. Thats why im saying this is between Franklin and her because Rachel fears unleashing her full power so has little experience using the phoenix power aside from giving her natural abilities a cosmic boost.

According to that comic, she was releasing her full power?

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/earthset.htm

Go down to the part where it's describing the battle.

Originally posted by Maestro
According to that comic, she was releasing her full power?

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/earthset.htm

Go down to the part where it's describing the battle.

I know i own the comic. Read my previous post and see how that still applies.

She has little experience using her phoenix power to its fullest extent so despite her power she can still get taken down by experienced high level cosmics.


Thats why its out of her and Franklin.

Wait a minute... is Franklin a child in this?