Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Many epic directors and writers based their works on true historic events to give their view and commentary on that matter, and also for audience appeal. The Lord of the Rings, for instance, is said to be based on JRR Tolkien's experience in WWI.

Correct me if i'm wrong, i saw a star wars documentary where it said that Episode IV was released during the heat of the vietnam war, hence giving it an appeal to the masses, for the film deals with freedom fighting and all.

I noticed that vader's helmet might be inspired by the german soldiers'.Below are pictures of actual german helmets. Episode III's rise of the Empire also echoes the rise of Germany's Third Reich.

Who else noticed any instances in the movies where parallels to the real world can be noted?

look's like a shorter version of vader's, isn't it?

1977 is hardly in the midst of the heat of Vietnam!

This is an old subject; whilst the allusions to Nazism are not non-existant, the style of the British Empire is clearly in there also.

yah..i knew i got it wrong..didn't bother to check the books when writing the thread.. so 1977, what was the war that's going on?

there wasnt one

lol.

Ever heard of The Ogaden War (1977-1978) ?

Apparently not.

Ever heard of storm troopers during wwII??
Some things do get taken from history.
If you notice all the empire guys are british and the rebels are northamerican.

The cold war was blazing in '77.

Actually the German helmets have an offspring: the American helmets our boys have worn since Gulf War I.

The Empire reflects all empires in world history. Rome, Britian, Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, and even America are all examples the Lucas used to create the Empire in Star Wars

The Roman Empire in Attack of the Clones - quote Sidious on defending the republic.

They just made up an empire, then you will always recognize things from the real things on earth...

Vin

george lucas borrowed the aesthetic feel of WW2 in his ships and vader's kaiser helmet...etc, but as far as politics he was simply mimicking every oppressive empire in the history of mankind. i really wouldnt look too far into it.

Originally posted by chinabing
The cold war was blazing in '77.

Actually the German helmets have an offspring: the American helmets our boys have worn since Gulf War I. C'mon the Cold warc You're from America i guess ... Can't you see America needs an enemy. When the people are afraid they're easyer to controll. It's just a trick of the politicians and the president. why do you think he US attacked Vietna huh?

yeah, thanks for politicising the thread with your high and might prejudicial bullshit.

C'mon some of you americans are letting the media controll you.

Aaaaaaaah communism, aaaaaaah terrorism. There's more chance to get killed by riding in your car than dieing in a terrorist attack dudes. Why the paranoia?

Keep the politics out of here, thankyou.

I always thought Vaders helmet was inspired by the Samurai headgear. Star Wars being influenced by "The Hidden Fortress" and all that.

Why is this always a subject, can noone just see the Galactic Empire for what it is...a piece of fiction.

An evil Empire spanning an entire galaxy ruled over by oppressive and powerful Sith made for a very good story.

If it's so bothersome then what would George Lucas use instead of said Empire? A Fanclub that won't lets members leave without a swirly?

There's only SO many types of helmets you can use that have an impressive style to them. The type that comes to the ears is one. Maybe it's just coincedence.

Originally posted by amity75
I always thought Vaders helmet was inspired by the Samurai headgear. Star Wars being influenced by "The Hidden Fortress" and all that.

Indeed, it was.

This topic is touched upon by the Magic of Myth exhibit, as well as the accompanying book and the 20 minute movie that was played during the exhibit.

In the book, Lucas admits that Palpatine was influenced by Hitler, Vader by the warriors of old Japan(stylistically). That the look of the empire is based on the strict military state that arose during WW2 era Germany. However, the inclusion of Joesph Campbells influence over Lucas was specifically to show that the reality of his influences were so basically-human, in that the lack of specific influences became apparent. That all good and evil is basically indestictive from one human culture to the next.

Just to note, Tolkien himself refuted that LOTR was based on WW1 experiences. He wrote The Hobbit while in the trenches, though.

Palpatine, IMO, seems to have all the worst qualities of the world's past and current dictators. Same for his empire.

there was talk that episode III was based off the war in vietnam and i dont know were they come up with this sh~t

I don't think that's what was said.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Why is this always a subject, can noone just see the Galactic Empire for what it is...a piece of fiction.

An evil Empire spanning an entire galaxy ruled over by oppressive and powerful Sith made for a very good story.

If it's so bothersome then what would George Lucas use instead of said Empire? A Fanclub that won't lets members leave without a swirly?

There's only SO many types of helmets you can use that have an impressive style to them. The type that comes to the ears is one. Maybe it's just coincedence.

Coincidence? U obviously have not heard of the literary terms 'allusion' and 'satire'. Credible writers do not produce their stories out of nowhere.

Oh yeah..i agree on what's said that the helmets got "offsprings" thru the american helmets in the gulf and the recent iraq war..look familiar don't they? Haha.. (the pic below of the US troops, it reminds me of Empire Strikes Back!)

Yes Tolkien did maintained till his death that it wasn't based on WWI isn't it..wonder why..Oh but i din noe The Hobbit was written in the trenches..cool!

yeah the pic..

The german empire was worse then the galactic empire. There was nothing like the holocost in Star wars where it was directed against a race. There did not seem to have anything to do with racism. Germany was worse because of that

Originally posted by darthvader_fan
there was talk that episode III was based off the war in vietnam and i dont know were they come up with this sh~t

Actually, I heard that the rescue of the Jedi from the Geonosis Arena was based off many operations in Vietnam. The Clone Gunships that floated down and wasted many Seperatist droids do bare an uncanny resemblance to the air support of U.S. helicopters rescuing and supporting American soilders in a hot-zone that have been out-numbered and over-whelmed by Viet Cong.

Originally posted by Cybervader
Correct me if i'm wrong, i saw a star wars documentary where it said that Episode IV was released during the heat of the vietnam war

NOT

EVEN

CLOSE.

The "heat" of 'Nam was 1967-71. The ground war ended in '73 and the war ended in '75.

war is all the same, perhaps thats the reason for the similarities

Originally posted by Tangible God

There's only SO many types of helmets you can use that have an impressive style to them. The type that comes to the ears is one. Maybe it's just coincedence.

though i did hear that the Nazi helmet inspired the look of Vader's

Originally posted by JediRobin23
The german empire was worse then the galactic empire. There was nothing like the holocost in Star wars where it was directed against a race. There did not seem to have anything to do with racism. Germany was worse because of that

What?! Ahem... deathstar
And...notice how aliens were never allowed in the Empire?

Then of course there's some EU about how the wookies were enslaved.

Originally posted by Echuu

Then of course there's some EU about how the wookies were enslaved.

there enslavement began where Kashyyyk left off in ROTS

Originally posted by JediRobin23
The german empire was worse then the galactic empire. There was nothing like the holocost in Star wars where it was directed against a race. There did not seem to have anything to do with racism. Germany was worse because of that

What the hell - the German Empire was distinguished at the end of WWI you idiot! The German Empire did not commit the holocaust! And bloody hell - the Germans were one of the 'nicer' Empires of there day, all they done was stir up trouble with the French...

And the Galactic Empire is a representation of all Empires - but of course it carries certain garments that appear similar and certain names...

And can you please not keep saying that the Lord of the Rings is based on WW2, it is not, although there are similarities yes, but Tolkien himself said it was not....

The whole idea of the empire and the troopers was probably based loosely on the German empire, that's it, it's not some hidden message.

One problem though, SuperShadow always says this, I don't know if it's confirmed anywhere else, but I think so!

You cant say its loosely based just on the German Empire - were Stormtroopers part of the German Empire? No! - they came about 20 years afterwards when the Nazi's came along...and that 'kaiser', spiked, helmet has been used by many different european nations...

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
NOT

EVEN

CLOSE.

The "heat" of 'Nam was 1967-71. The ground war ended in '73 and the war ended in '75.

Wokay..so it was not the heat..it was more of the aftermath..still the idea had appeal to the masses though..haha.

So it seems that many are disputing the empire the Galactic Empire was based on..Some said it was more of a fusion of real empires plus lucas own input..That's why this thread states "German Empire?"..notice the question mark..Hmm so what other empires could fit the bill? i remembered somebody said the British Empire..interesting.. but how so?

Because of the mass slavery and so forth - probably the huge independance on Naval (Starship) power... but most of the Empires were roughyl the same and there were few that stood out from the pack - Britain did so becuase it was the most dominant and wealthy...

Originally posted by exanda kane
What the hell - the German Empire was distinguished at the end of WWI you idiot! The German Empire did not commit the holocaust! And bloody hell - the Germans were one of the 'nicer' Empires of there day, all they done was stir up trouble with the French...

And the Galactic Empire is a representation of all Empires - but of course it carries certain garments that appear similar and certain names...

And can you please not keep saying that the Lord of the Rings is based on WW2, it is not, although there are similarities yes, but Tolkien himself said it was not.... Ur right. There's a difference between the German empire and the third reich. But um.........they did kinda start ww1. And what do you Americans got against the French?

Originally posted by Da preacher
Ur right. There's a difference between the German empire and the third reich. But um.........they did kinda start ww1. And what do you Americans got against the French? I thought the Austrian-Hungarian Empire started WWI, with the shooting of Ferdinand. The Entente declared wasr on them for it, and as A-H's ally, Germany had to join in against the Entente.

Originally posted by Da preacher
Ur right. There's a difference between the German empire and the third reich. But um.........they did kinda start ww1. And what do you Americans got against the French?

Excuse me!
Please read the little bit next to my name which says "Location: Great Britain" - of which then it'll become clear that previously my 'kingdom' if you will,had been at war with the french for a few centuries - but I'd like to say that I have no quarrel with the French blah blah ...

And please read up on what started WWI and the Creation of Nazism...
The Gemans did not start WWI they were dragged into it as were most other countries and also realise that the Germans did not suddenly declare that they hated Jews and that they were victims of a very clever yet rather twisted plan, master-minded by a man called Adolf Hitler...

Back on topic - although no one has agreed or disagreed with me (although people did mention this before) that the Galactic Empire is a representation of all Empire's with bits of Lucas's own ideas shoved in...

An empire is an empire, there's not really any different TYPE of empire. Each are controlled by a monarch or emperor, all are totalitarian. I'll say it again, what else could Lucas use as his powerful bad guy besides an empire? There's nothing he could have used that would be on the same scale as the Galactic Empire. It was the only way he could go, it made sense.

Originally posted by exanda kane
Excuse me!
Please read the little bit next to my name which says "Location: Great Britain" - of which then it'll become clear that previously my 'kingdom' if you will,had been at war with the french for a few centuries - but I'd like to say that I have no quarrel with the French blah blah ...

And please read up on what started WWI and the Creation of Nazism...
The Gemans did not start WWI they were dragged into it as were most other countries and also realise that the Germans did not suddenly declare that they hated Jews and that they were victims of a very clever yet rather twisted plan, master-minded by a man called Adolf Hitler... Excuse me! Franz Ferdinand gets shot, OK. Osttereich-hungaria declares war to um...........forgot. France is furious.....declares war. Germans join the hungarians. Russians declare war to Osstereich-Hungaria. Germans wanna attack France and Russia. To be able to attack France they attack Belgium (My country) and invade it. Belgium declares war. Britain declares war to help the belgians. Germans attack Russia.

So who started it huh? Germany attacked Belgium just becaause it was neutral and layed between France and Germany.

It was the Ausro-Hungary empire that started the war, Germany had to join in because they were its ally.

All it started in the Balkans - but to answer the the french wanted revenge for the french defeat in the franco-prussian wao of 1870-1 and they made there war plan (plan 17) and German (who knew France wanted revenge) chose theirs - which unfortunatedly entailed them invading Belgium...

This thread will get too poltical soon but as Tangible God has already said an Empire is an Empire...

Actually, the first world war began because of the rise of nationalism and alliance building. Both Germany and Italy were founded because of nationalism. The assasination of the Archduke Ferdinand was just the straw that broke the camels back, as it were. The age of empires had led to certain ruling parties controlling multiple ethnic groups, who resisted integration, due to nationalism. These empires had formed alliances with each other, and so...when the time came, one country would declare war and by default, all the countries they were allied with had to join the war too.

And, of course, Nationalism was the cause of German aggression during the '30s. Which, was the cause of WW2

And the first battle of WW1 was fought in Belgium. But, that was because the only way the Germans could get to France...was through Belgium.

So, everyone was right. There's no single cause for WW1

Of course there's not. It's not as if some guy was watching and inhibiting events play out with the INTENTON of war. A series of events just lead to it. What lead to it being a WORLD WAR was the fact that there was so many alliances, all on either one of two different sides.

WWII was more the cause of one man. Mr. Hitler goes to Berlin is that man.

Let's face it people tend to pick things out of history or even the present and interpret it into what they see in the movies. So I'm sure Lucas did draw from all empires and uniforms ect. for the evil galactic empire, but im sure he had his own ideas in there too. I have heard some people say that when Grievous's ship is burning through the atmosphere that it must of been done like that because of the way the columbia blew up. I would have to say NO, that is just what a ship looks like while entering the atmosphere and while its on fire. Even with the political stuff in EPIII they were comparing it to what is going on in the US senate. give me a break Lucas had the primary idea for this 30 years ago so don't give me this crap.
On a different note: Tolkien's works were not allegory, that was the one thing he wanted to avoid. He was writing with applicabilaty,he wanted to let people make their own decision of what the story means to them. So if your english teacher is telling you different and that the evil in mount doom symbolizes the nazi's and the ring symbolizes nuclear energy, tell them to stick it up their arse.

It was more like Hindenburg.

Originally posted by darthmaul1
Let's face it people tend to pick things out of history or even the present and interpret it into what they see in the movies. So I'm sure Lucas did draw from all empires and uniforms ect. for the evil galactic empire, but im sure he had his own ideas in there too. I have heard some people say that when Grievous's ship is burning through the atmosphere that it must of been done like that because of the way the columbia blew up. I would have to say NO, that is just what a ship looks like while entering the atmosphere and while its on fire. Even with the political stuff in EPIII they were comparing it to what is going on in the US senate. give me a break Lucas had the primary idea for this 30 years ago so don't give me this crap.
On a different note: Tolkien's works were not allegory, that was the one thing he wanted to avoid. He was writing with applicabilaty,he wanted to let people make their own decision of what the story means to them. So if your english teacher is telling you different and that the evil in mount doom symbolizes the nazi's and the ring symbolizes nuclear energy, tell them to stick it up their arse.

Yah..did u not say yourself that it is up for "people (to) make their own decisions"? Yupz and hence the parallels drawn from LOTR to WWI is truly acceptable, keyword: parallels, and nuttin more. That settles it..

Interestin indeed..this has been turned to be The Origins Of the First World War debate..haha! Wokay nonetheless, let us then put it in context..since we're talking about World War,how similar or different it is to the Clone Wars?

If we notice, old Palpy took pains to become the Supreme Chancellor of the Galactic Senate, presumably it was the easiest way for him to control the various star systems of the Republic. The Clone Wars represent the large-scale galactic war rather similar to our World Wars,
just that the Clone Wars was to counter the Separatists, while in our World Wars we mostly fight among each other..If a galactic governing body like the Galactic Senate can be used as a platform for war, how far then can we be sure that similarly our United Nations would not be too corrupt that it might be exploited by great powers to advocate War?

Originally posted by Cybervader
Yah..did u not say yourself that it is up for "people (to) make their own decisions"? Yupz and hence the parallels drawn from LOTR to WWI is truly acceptable, keyword: parallels, and nuttin more. That settles it..

Interestin indeed..this has been turned to be The Origins Of the First World War debate..haha! Wokay nonetheless, let us then put it in context..since we're talking about World War,how similar or different it is to the Clone Wars?

If we notice, old Palpy took pains to become the Supreme Chancellor of the Galactic Senate, presumably it was the easiest way for him to control the various star systems of the Republic. The Clone Wars represent the large-scale galactic war rather similar to our World Wars,
just that the Clone Wars was to counter the Separatists, while in our World Wars we mostly fight among each other..If a galactic governing body like the Galactic Senate can be used as a platform for war, how far then can we be sure that similarly our United Nations would not be too corrupt that it might be exploited by great powers to advocate War?

Yes I did say that it is up to the people to draw their own conclusions. I guess i should of said that with regard to the shuttle blowing up, that people were insiting that this is what george was trying to make it look like. yes you can interprit it that way if you wish, but do not insist this is what he had in mind cause we don't know.

Again, the only way for the Clone Wars to be impressive enough to draw people to the theater is if it's full-scale style. I doubt Lucas based it off of WWII, or whatever else. He only had limited amount of options to use in his movies. He's from Earth so he has to use what Earthlings know.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Again, the only way for the Clone Wars to be impressive enough to draw people to the theater is if it's full-scale style. I doubt Lucas based it off of WWII, or whatever else. He only had limited amount of options to use in his movies. He's from Earth so he has to use what Earthlings know.


But, George has said that the Galactic Empire was based, stylistically, on the Third Reich.

Ok - this thread has got sily now, I probably didnt help it myself but the guy trying to explain everything uneccesarily (no offense) did so ....uneccesarily...

(Quote From Cybervader)
Yah..did u not say yourself that it is up for "people (to) make their own decisions"? Yupz and hence the parallels drawn from LOTR to WWI is truly acceptable, keyword: parallels, and nuttin more. That settles it..
(End Quote)

I think Darthmaul1 said that your english teacher shouldnt 'tell' you..so maybe you just misread but if your sposed to draw your own parellels (which Tolkien wanted of course) then you should make your own conclusion...and I don't think I've heard LOTR parelleled with WWI...that maybe an error too.....

well i hope someone doesnt bloody start another argument now

Sorry Kane but I gotta post--it's the brandy kicking in.

What else IS Lucas gonna do? The Wermarcht is such an obvious choice to base an evil galactic organization off of. I think the only option he had as a bad guy, would be an evil empire. Having knowledge limited to that of we humans, he won't have much to choose from in the way of Empires. All have been good AND bad in our history. He took only the bad and used that as his regime.

There is only so much you can use for a bad guy on the scale the Empire was.

Originally posted by exanda kane
Ok - this thread has got sily now, I probably didnt help it myself but the guy trying to explain everything uneccesarily (no offense) did so ....uneccesarily...

(Quote From Cybervader)
Yah..did u not say yourself that it is up for "people (to) make their own decisions"? Yupz and hence the parallels drawn from LOTR to WWI is truly acceptable, keyword: parallels, and nuttin more. That settles it..
(End Quote)

I think Darthmaul1 said that your english teacher shouldnt 'tell' you..so maybe you just misread but if your sposed to draw your own parellels (which Tolkien wanted of course) then you should make your own conclusion...and I don't think I've heard LOTR parelleled with WWI...that maybe an error too.....

well i hope someone doesnt bloody start another argument now

I'm not starting an argument just stating what i heard on the expanded edition of LOTR FOTR behind the scenes that Tolkien came up with the idea of LOTR while he was fighting in the trenches during WWI, i think it must of been an escape for him to do so, and although u can say that the LOTR is a parallel to what he went through, this is not what tolkien wanted, he wants everyone to draw their own conclusions, and not be so narrow minded as most english teachers.

Haha..i guess that makes sense..and yup i get where you're coming from..so yah..

Eh how about the corruption of the galactic governing body? Clone Wars and our World Wars? How can we learn from what took place..

Originally posted by Cybervader
Haha..i guess that makes sense..and yup i get where you're coming from..so yah..

Eh how about the corruption of the galactic governing body? Clone Wars and our World Wars? How can we learn from what took place.. Never trust dictators, cyborgs, or cloned troops/sheep. The Jedi and the Jews are the same thing, the Wermarcht and the Imperial Army are the same thing, the Third Reich and the Empire are the same thing, Napolean and Stalin both only had one testicle that dropped.

No - he began ideas on the Silmarillion in the trenches of WWI..but he did gain many ideas from the Western Front

Originally posted by Cybervader
Haha..i guess that makes sense..and yup i get where you're coming from..so yah..

Eh how about the corruption of the galactic governing body? Clone Wars and our World Wars? How can we learn from what took place..

Well, it was a very simplistic representation of how such things happen, but in a very general sense, we can take a look at how the Republic suddenly became the Empire, take a look at what's going on today (and has been going on for a while, honestly) in the U.S., and realize that history repeats itself.

Or at least it will continue to do so until overpopulation, climate change, or economic collapse triggered by dwindling energy resources (or any combination of those) finally causes a dramatic, irreversible change. Then things will get downright interesting.

hehe.. dunno if u have heard of him.. but try going to:

www.johntitor.com

this guy claims to be a time traveller and he came from the future..he said the US would have a civil war anytime now..so yah..

Keep the politics OUT of here, thankyou.

Originally posted by Cybervader
hehe.. dunno if u have heard of him.. but try going to:

www.johntitor.com

this guy claims to be a time traveller and he came from the future..he said the US would have a civil war anytime now..so yah..

Well, it takes all kinds.

I try to stick to verifiable science. Technically, there's probably no proof that this guy ISN'T from the future, but somehow, I think I'm not going to take what he says as gospel truth. I know that's crazy of me, but what can you do?

That is wild, though.

On the Attack of the Clones DVD, Lucas comments:

"This idea of a democracy being giving up--in many cases being given up in a time of crisis--you see it throughout history whether it's Julius Caesar, or Napoleon, or Adolph Hitler, you see these democracies under a lot of pressure, in a crisis situation, end up giving up a lot of the freedoms they have, and a lot of checks and balances, to somebody with a strong authority to help get them through the crisis. You know, it's not the first time a politician has created a war to help them stay in office."

"If you're not with us, you're against us."--A typical quote from W. in that it grossly oversimplifies the situation, much to the gratitude of many Americans who would rather not acknowledge the complexity and ambiguity of such issues. That's boring. They don't want to see intelligent discourse, they want entertainment.

"If you are not with me, you are my enemy."--Darth Vader. Don't you think that if this wasn't a direct mocking of Bush that the line "If you are not my ally, you are my enemy." would have been used instead?

Yeah, Lucas is from Earth so naturally he's going to incorporate the history, policies, and values of Earth into his wonderworld writings.