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Who in the Marvel Universe can beat Deathstroke in H2H combat?

Thor, Gladiator, Thanos, Hulk, Hercules, etc, etc.....

wolverine,captain america,stick,orgun(might of spelled it wrong),mister x, black panther, I have a feeling im forgetting the others

he means in skill lol

you forgot a few deadpool, taskmaster, iron fist , temugin, sabertooth

oh ya

I think Black Panther, Mr X...eventually Deadpool could maybe. Longshot.

ok, i'm gonna be unpopular and say that he'll beat Wolverine (H2H ... so no claws) Deadpool, maybe Cap, maybe BP

Mister X should be able to beat him.... but i wouldn't bet on it

Temugin uses his rings when fighting to amp his strength and speed, without them he'd probably lose

IF would have a chance

why has no one mentioned Shang Chi? or DareDevil?

Black Panther would be his biggest threat i think...cuz of his similar level of tech, resources, intelligence, etc. If Deathstroke soundly beats Batman then I dont think Daredevil is gonna make it either. I forgot to say Karnak...he could probably get him. The cosmic fighters like Mantis and Gany would destroy him though.

Deadpool, his hand to hand combat isnt the best but it is still quite good plus the constant healing and constant talking will wear slade down.......

Yea I dont rank Deadpool as one of the top H2H fighters...but eventually I think he would outlast Slade.

Thats an interesting point dont you think? in identity crisis slade only just got beaten by GA, GL, atom, Zatanna, Flash, Hawkman and Black canary............whereas we all think after a while Deadpool can take him down........

Deadpool has a habit of getting way over-rated on this forum...and by anyone who was in middle school during the 90's

wolverine,captaint america,stick,mister x(he can see al his move befor he does them),ogun are sure wins the rest im not sure about

cap, wolverine.

Venom,Solo,Master,Blob,Cable,Wolverine,Gamora,Mant
is,Invisible Woman,Thing,Cyber,maybe Bishop,Carnage,maybe US Agent,maybe Beast,Spider-Man,Omega Red,Sabretooth,etc,etc....

just to tell u in skill mant blob omega red best spiderman invisible solo venom would get there asses kicked skill wise

US Agent?

Deathstroke can be overrated sometimes but he'd still beat the piss out of US Agent.

mantis hell no she finish deathstroke

lol. US Agent.

And as far as Wolverine forgot more about fighting then Deathstroke is ever going to know. US Agent can lift class 10 strength has and was trained by Captain America and has Superhuman stamina durability agility and reflexes He's got great fighting skills. Spiderman who beat firelord would break Deathstroke the longer it goes and it go just long enough to break Deathstroke.Deathstroke get's to close to blob and gets smothered he is stronger more durable the Deathstroke. Deathstroke would never beat Omega Red it to durable and way to strong.Venom who gave both Superman and Juggernaut trouble would devistate Deathstroke.

The U.S. Agent's only superhuman powers are the superhuman strength and stamina given him by the Power Broker's treatment.

Other Abilities: The U.S. Agent has received rigorous training in hand-to-hand combat, acrobatics, and gymnastics. He has been trained by the Taskmaster in the original Captain America's own fighting style, which employs boxing, judo, and acrobatics.

Am I the only one who stopped reading at the "Spiderman who beat firelord" part?

stick. elektra would also have a chance combining mystisism and enormous skill.

Originally posted by Ultimate Ion
Am I the only one who stopped reading at the "Spiderman who beat firelord" part?

Yes

USAgent isn't the laughing stock everyone's making him out to be

dude were talken skill wise not powers. fighting skill vs fighting skill no one give a dam about the powers

actauly us agent aight but wolverine with bone claws took him falcon out at same time in seconds. captain america beat u.s agent not to long ago pritty badly. he good but he not gunna beat detah stroke skill wise in a fight or even just with powers he still lose

Originally posted by wolverine8888
dude were talken skill wise not powers. fighting skill vs fighting skill no one give a dam about the powers

actually we're just talking unarmed combat....

but if it's pure skill and everyone got put at even strength levels, then i'd still say Thor could beat him

I dought that very much. thor actauly not that good a fighter not even in methology. detah stoke I think would own him thor relize to much on his powers. straight up skill he main hold his own but he won't win

Gail simone says she writes Slade as the exact equal to Shiva in h2h.

She says the only difference she adds to him is his mental abilities and reflexes.

Thor is just an experienced brawler. Slade, Cap, Batman, Daredevil, and the like are superior when it comes to actual skill.

Thor is a skilled wrestler. Very skilled.

He just prefers to brawl.

Originally posted by wolverine8888
I dought that very much. thor actauly not that good a fighter not even in methology. detah stoke I think would own him thor relize to much on his powers. straight up skill he main hold his own but he won't win

you think?... pffft he went unarmed against Loki and Fenris (the wolf guy) both of godly strength and both weilding powerful replicas of Mjolnir.... and he beat the crap out of both of them

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/8615/thorbeatdown1bw.th.jpg

dude, lokie is not known for being a good fighter in any way, actauly last time I checked his fighting skill was a 2 lol

Originally posted by Ultimate Ion
Thor is just an experienced brawler. Slade, Cap, Batman, Daredevil, and the like are superior when it comes to actual skill.

thousands of years of cambat training and you think he's a brawler?

yup pritty much herc the same way but actauly herc probly a better fighter. in mithology thor is a good fighter but he aint known for being the most skill actauly he quite stupid he just a brawler

Originally posted by wolverine8888
dude lokie is not known for being good fighter actauly last time I check is fighting skill is a 2 lol

you'd think you would have read the part i was replying to .... seeing as you wrote it

(i know it isn't written well... but i figure if anyone can make sense out of it, it should be you)

Herc's a better fighter. And probably a bit stronger and all around better physically.

Thor is "Trained in Asgardian arts of war, highly skilled hand-to-hand combatant, proficient with most Asgardian weaponry, highly skilled in the use of his hammer"

What about Mongoose

http://www.marvel.com/universe/index.htm thors fighting skill is a 4 he could but he not as good a fighter as death stroke form what I heard about him.

The Cat. They'd be fighting. Slade would go to cut Shen, and Shen would dodge, but get part of his shirt sliced. Then he'd rip it off. Slade would see the sweet tattoo and just be like "you win."

I got my Info from www.immortalthor.net

Originally posted by Scoobless
thousands of years of cambat training and you think he's a brawler?


I believe that's what I said, yes.

hahaa I fully agree with Ion

not surprised in the slightest by that admission

A brawler isn't a bad fighter. A boxer is a brawler and they can kick the shit out of lot of martial artists. However, Thor has never to my knowledge shown himself to be as proficient at h2h combat as people like Captain America, Daredevil and the other top dogs in Marvel.

well he doesn't get a lot of opportunities on Marvel Earth... he's probably pretty used to all the guys he fights being weaker and more fragile that he always holds back so as not to kill them.... unless they really piss him off

It's not fair to use people like Thor because he is a better warrior and to strong for Deathstroke. He would not stand a chance you might as well put Champion against him

I bet Stick could give him a good fight. Other Abilities: Stick was a master of various Oriental martial arts. Despite his blindness, he was an extraordinary hand-to-hand combatant

Wolverine, Stick, and perhaps Iron Fist.

Cap and Black Panther would be a draw if anything. Their enhanced super strength, stamina and reflexes are perhaps a slight bit better than Deathstroke. Cap's indomitable will is probably the only thing that could get past Slade's uncanny ability to examine and plan several steps ahead. Cap and Panther are great fighters and plan ahead of their moves, but they do not have Slade's tremendous raw ability to plan ahead so quickly. Even I would hate to admit it, but Cap has no definite advantage... The way the JLA eventually won their fight with Slade is by pure brawling and getting Slade's temper worked up. This prevented Slade from taking advantage of his uncanny ability to examine and plan several steps ahead. Panther might be able to do this, but Slade would more likely get Panther all worked up first.

Even if Slade figures out Wolvie's healing abilities, he'd still have to get in close and dirty in order to have any chance of taking him out. Wolvie is certainly the exact type of enemy to take away Slade's brain processing advantages.

DD would get put down when Slade realizes DD relies on heightened sensory perception and throws out a sonic emitter or overwhelms DD's sense of smell with a high density smoke bomb to stun DD for a second. Batman in DD/Batman noticed DD's heightened sense of hearing only after a short fight. Slade could do the same.

Guys like Shang Chi and Elektra are perhaps more skilled in a martial arts discipline, but Slade's raw strength and reflexes are probably on par with Cap if not more so and would overpower those who don't exhibit above human strength and reflexes. Just like the Gorgon did with Elektra. Elektra didn't even get a hit on him. Iron Fist is on that level of above human strength and reflexes with his dragon infused mystical powers, plus he's got a bunch of other mystical abilities.

Stick is a fighting god (not literally) and could probably be equated to Lady Shiva. That could adequately make up for Slade's advantages. Plus the guy is too mysterious for Slade to examine.

I think Slade would also take guys like Taskmaster and Batroc to town. He could take out Taskmaster by simply advancing on him, wrestling style and forego acrobatics and fighting styles. In wrestling, basic technique only gets you so far and there are no ancient secret techniques to pull outta your magic hat. Raw power and reflexes win the match all things considered equal.

Just my view on the obvious matchups in MU...

slade defeated colosuss,wolverine,cyclops,storm the same time give some credite people.

Originally posted by Ultimate Ion
A brawler isn't a bad fighter. A boxer is a brawler and they can kick the shit out of lot of martial artists. However, Thor has never to my knowledge shown himself to be as proficient at h2h combat as people like Captain America, Daredevil and the other top dogs in Marvel.

Incorrect. A boxer is not a brawler (although some "brawler" types get into boxing and can even do well). Boxing correctly practiced is a scientific martial art, and the reason boxers can kick the crap out of a lot of martial artists is it's also a TESTED and EFFECTIVE striking martial art -- unlike, say, karate ... or worse, tae kwon do (which is garbage).

However, experienced brawlers are also very dangerous, as that is the nature of real fighting (which, surprise surprise, is neither choreographed nor especially pretty). Tank Abbott of UFC fame is one such individual, and he punked out plenty of dojo jockies. BADLY.

The funny thing is that they originally got him in order to show how badly a trained martial artist could beat a brawler. They ended up showing quite the opposite.

Captain America, Iron fist and Black Panther

I don't give much credit to those "ratings" things. They also list Black Panther's fighting as a 5.

Not much credit at all.

Cap and BP would have hardly a chance in h2h.

Slade is way stronger(3-5ton), a lot faster, much smarter and he heals at superhuman speeds. Wolverine wouldn't be able to stab Slade because of Slade's promethium chain mail armor under his suit.

I don't see any of those you mentioned having a shot at winning, Orestes.

Maybe stick....meh

Deadpool stands a chance if you include his healing, otherwise hes screwed...........

wolverine claws can go through solid steal how will chain mail help. also does not even batter wolverine beat a guy when was totaly indestructable but his face(cyber) who is a amazing fighter also and has healing. so even wolverine couldent get through the mail he stab him in the face

Adam Destine Easily.

well yes adam would beat death stroke he mroe indestructable then juggernaut.(acatuly adam can't even be hurt not mater what.)

doesn't H2H mean Wolvy can't use his claws? if that's the case he's gettin' his ass kicked

Originally posted by wolverine8888
wolverine claws can go through solid steal how will chain mail help. also does not even batter wolverine beat a guy when was totaly indestructable but his face(cyber) who is a amazing fighter also and has healing. so even wolverine couldent get through the mail he stab him in the face The chain mail is made of promethium. In case you didn't know, that's the DC version of adamantium.

wolverine deffently better fighter he straight up gunna win. ya i figured that that was there version of it won't make a diffrence wolverine beat cyber who had it cover every thing but his face and cyber also ahs a healing factor and his one of the best hand to hand fighters with his bone claws lol

go read some dc comics and stop sniffing wolverines ass deathstroke will finish wolverine

Originally posted by thesilverspider
go read some dc comics and stop sniffing wolverines ass deathstroke will finish wolverine
besides the fact that wolverine coudlve killed him....

death stroke loses to wolverine oh ya and dident wolverine almost kill him when they fought cuz last time a checked he had death stroke finished and was gunna give him the death blow for get he did not

Originally posted by wolverine8888
death stroke loses to wolverine oh ya and dident wolverine almost kill him when they fought cuz last time a checked he had death stroke finished and was gunna give him the death blow for get he did not
take away deahstrokes strength and speed, and reflexes, make him peak human, and Wolverine wins IMO

he loses any ways let death stroke keep his powers does not matter

Originally posted by wolverine8888
he loses any ways let death stroke keep his powers does not matter
shhhhh......now your diggin us into a whole...

why wolverine has foughten him befor

Originally posted by wolverine8888
why wolverine has foughten him befor
he'd eat wolverine alive.,....he is 10x captain america......how bout we make him peak human and then we judge...

so he ton's tons strength big deal us agent is wolverine beat his ass in seconds. any ways they have already foughten

Originally posted by wolverine8888
so he ton's tons strength big deal us agent is wolverine beat his ass in seconds. any ways they have already foughten
its not the strenght, he is too quick and too agile, that figh was PIS, Slade is too much for wolverine, the strength doesnt matter, its the speed, and such.

dude u do realize wolverien keeps up with spiderman slade is not mroe agile or betetr reflexes then spiderman or wolverine. u forget wolverien take quick silver out auro north star grogon, ogun all of which move super fast far faster then death stroke. also my comment befor I ment to say 10 tons not ton's ton's

Originally posted by wolverine8888
dude u do realize wolverien keeps up with spiderman slade is not mroe agile or betetr reflexes then spiderman or wolverine. u forget wolverien take quick silver out auro north star grogon, ogun all of which move super fast far faster then death stroke. also my comment befor I ment to say 10 tons not ton's ton's
please just take my word onthis one ....

I just can't do that from what I read of slade there no way he will win im gunna need to see prove

Originally posted by wolverine8888
I just can't do that from what I read of slade there no way he will win im gunna need to see prove
he beat the JLU

I saw that comic it was not realy fight thou it was all in his mind. he killed them all in it. it dident actauly happen

Originally posted by Orestes
Incorrect. A boxer is not a brawler (although some "brawler" types get into boxing and can even do well). Boxing correctly practiced is a scientific martial art, and the reason boxers can kick the crap out of a lot of martial artists is it's also a TESTED and EFFECTIVE striking martial art -- unlike, say, karate ... or worse, tae kwon do (which is garbage).

However, experienced brawlers are also very dangerous, as that is the nature of real fighting (which, surprise surprise, is neither choreographed nor especially pretty). Tank Abbott of UFC fame is one such individual, and he punked out plenty of dojo jockies. BADLY.

The funny thing is that they originally got him in order to show how badly a trained martial artist could beat a brawler. They ended up showing quite the opposite. Why is Tae Kwon Doe garbage? 60% of it is kicking, which is using your longest part of your body to attack and defend, 30% is grappling and wrestling toe to toe and 10% is striking with your hands. Hell, even Bruce Lee and UFC grapplers give respect to kickers. Knock the shit outta someone's body whether its their leg or their gut or head, and keep your distance, and you're friggin golden. UFC restricts fighters with a small round ring. Nobody gives respect to UFC fighters outside that ring. You've been watching too many web videos, man. In pure technique and skill in mixed arts battles, Tae Kwon Doe has dominated in the past several decades. If you studied mixed arts, you'd know that the small ring they give is a ridiculous advantage to grapplers and even then, a minority of kickboxers still end up coming out on top.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Why is Tae Kwon Doe garbage? 60% of it is kicking, which is using your longest part of your body to attack and defend, 30% is grappling and wrestling toe to toe and 10% is striking with your hands. Hell, even Bruce Lee and UFC grapplers give respect to kickers. Knock the shit outta someone's body whether its their leg or their gut or head, and keep your distance, and you're friggin golden. UFC restricts fighters with a small round ring. Nobody gives respect to UFC fighters outside that ring. You've been watching too many web videos, man. In pure technique and skill in mixed arts battles, Tae Kwon Doe has dominated in the past several decades. If you studied mixed arts, you'd know that the small ring they give is a ridiculous advantage to grapplers and even then, a minority of kickboxers still end up coming out on top.

Funny, I do follow martial arts, and I'm pretty much aware that kicking is considered highly ineffective in real fighting. To the extent that it IS used, it's mostly kicks against the other person's legs because your leg doesn't have to cover as much distance and isn't made as vulnerable with such a kick. Kicking is otherwise HORRIBLE -- it's slow (even the fastest kicker can't complete a kick NEARLY as rapidly as the fastest puncher can complete a punch) and easily countered compared to a punch, it puts you on one foot (and therefore easily knocked off balance and down), and if you kick high, it's a good way to lose instantly as your leg is grabbed. Having your arm grabbed is bad ... you could end up in an arm lock. But at least you still might have your balance. Having your leg grabbed is DISASTROUS ... you're hopping on one foot, pretty much at your opponent's mercy.

The UFC octagon, by the way, is quite large -- large enough to get a halfway decent running start going toward your opponent. How much space do you NEED, man? Would a whole city block be good enough for your kickboxer fighter? Or should the space be even bigger ...?

And I've watched the fights, and it isn't the size of the octagon that's the problem. People who try to kick very much get taken down right in the MIDDLE of it, with plenty of room left to retreat. It has nothing to do with not having enough room and everything to do with the fact that for the most part, kicking. Just. Sucks.

Originally posted by wolverine8888
wolverine deffently better fighter he straight up gunna win. ya i figured that that was there version of it won't make a diffrence wolverine beat cyber who had it cover every thing but his face and cyber also ahs a healing factor and his one of the best hand to hand fighters with his bone claws lol
The chainmail basically means wolverine's claws wouldn't penetrate but maybe a half inch, then stop. Promethium=Adamantium. And a Promethium Staff of 40ton blasting power and/or intense heat and Promethium Sword.


Not to mention Slade is 10-20x smarter than Wolverine and can outthink him 100 fold AND he had weapons like batman carries. Ya know, grenades that K.O superboy and wondergirl? Plus, Slade is faster and stronger and at least equal in fighting ability, maybe Slade is even a better fighter. He's written equal to Shiva.

Yeah, Wolverine loses, badly.

Wolverine never beat Cyber except with major PIS.

Originally posted by long pig
The chainmail basically means wolverine's claws wouldn't penetrate but maybe a half inch, then stop. Promethium=Adamantium. And a Promethium Staff of 40ton blasting power and/or intense heat and Promethium Sword.


Not to mention Slade is 10-20x smarter than Wolverine and can outthink him 100 fold AND he had weapons like batman carries. Ya know, grenades that K.O superboy and wondergirl? Plus, Slade is faster and stronger and at least equal in fighting ability, maybe Slade is even a better fighter. He's written equal to Shiva.

Yeah, Wolverine loses, badly.

Wolverine never beat Cyber except with major PIS.
wolverine did beat cyber my friend, he took his eye, and in their last brawl, he messed up his face and beat the hell out of him scratching him up, and then in another battle he beat him by tackling him off a cliff.

P.I.Ssy to the extreme.

Originally posted by long pig
P.I.Ssy to the extreme.
nah, cyber could only lift up to 5 tons, AND!!!! he wasnt that good of a fighter, wolverine made sure to strike his face and out fight him.

Originally posted by Orestes
Funny, I do follow martial arts, and I'm pretty much aware that kicking is considered highly ineffective in real fighting. To the extent that it IS used, it's mostly kicks against the other person's legs because your leg doesn't have to cover as much distance and isn't made as vulnerable with such a kick. Kicking is otherwise HORRIBLE -- it's slow (even the fastest kicker can't complete a kick NEARLY as rapidly as the fastest puncher can complete a punch) and easily countered compared to a punch, it puts you on one foot (and therefore easily knocked off balance and down), and if you kick high, it's a good way to lose instantly as your leg is grabbed. Having your arm grabbed is bad ... you could end up in an arm lock. But at least you still might have your balance. Having your leg grabbed is DISASTROUS ... you're hopping on one foot, pretty much at your opponent's mercy.

The UFC octagon, by the way, is quite large -- large enough to get a halfway decent running start going toward your opponent. How much space do you NEED, man? Would a whole city block be good enough for your kickboxer fighter? Or should the space be even bigger ...?

And I've watched the fights, and it isn't the size of the octagon that's the problem. People who try to kick very much get taken down right in the MIDDLE of it, with plenty of room left to retreat. It has nothing to do with not having enough room and everything to do with the fact that for the most part, kicking. Just. Sucks. The point of this thread isn't to defend fighting styles... and I'm drunk. But I will attempt to counter your assesment of Tae Kwon Do as pure garbage. First off, I highly doubt your knowledge of fighting strategy and techniques because of several of your posts.

1) You say punches are more effective? You've got to be kidding me. Even the quickest and most focused jabs take several consecutive blows to cause any damage to any experienced fighter who can dodge or block and cause many of these jabs to glance. Now what about the kick? Just think of a kick to the head as someone punching you with his arm,... except his arm is as big and muscular as an average person's leg. If you can picture someone, with an arm as ridiculously large as that, you'll see why kicks are more dangerous than a punch whether or not they are faster.

2) And that assessment of speed is a pure misapplication. Your confusing a full length's kick time to reach its target to that of a full length's punch's time to reach its target. First off, the time is off by milliseconds when comparing experts. Experts' kicks can reach up to 70-80 miles per hour in terms of speed. Second, what kind of kick are we talking about? A kick to the head? Because you're literally covering 7 feet from the ground to the person's head if its your rear foot, whereas you're covering at most 4 feet with your punch to the head even if its your offhand. If you're covering 4 feet, like a kick to the legs, its pretty equal in terms of speed and range covered, oh... except you have more muscle... and more power...

3) When is the last time you have seen someone grab someone's leg after they made a quick and strong high-roundhouse? I have watched an insane amount of UFC fights and my brother has watched even more, and we cannot think of a single instance where someone grabbed someone's high-roundhouse during mid-kick or after blocking it with their arm. Do you know what would happen to your hands by trying to catch a kick like that in mid-flight? Your hands are going to fracture. Do you know what would happen to your blocking arm if you put it at the side of your head trying to block an expert's high-roundhouse? First off, you'd very likely bruise your bone (not just your muscle), you very likely will have a fracture result, and second, you will go flying to the side. You've been playing too much Tekken or Street Fighter if you think high-roundhouses can be easily countered by graqbbing them. Fighters dodge them. This is easier, quicker, leaves you in a better position and less risky. Thats one of the most basic fighting premises! For you to think that fighters grab high-kicks, leaves me thinking that your knowledge of fighting tactics leaves a lot to be desired.

4) Kicking leaves you on one foot, so its very disadvantageous? Let me ask you a question, if you actually gthrew a real punch, like a haymaker... how much leverage are you putting on your lead foot? Or rather your forward foot? If you threw a haymaker, capable of knocking a person out, and someone from behind kicked out your rear foot, you will fall down and/or stagger. There is very little weight on your rear foot, because if there is a lot of weight, you're not twisting your hip and giving your full body's strength into your punch. Yes, its slower to recover after making a high-roundhouse as opposed to a haymaker... but since most fighters dodge or step away from high-roundhouses, lest they be F@$ked up, you also have more time to recover.

5) The Tae Kwon Do that you see, is probably a dozen 15 year olds with purple belts getting manhandled by some 16 year old kid who is twice their size. Granted, I see that too. The Tae Kwon Do you see, is solme 1st degree black belt teaching Tae Kwon Do in sveeral differnt backwards ass stores. Real Tae Kwon Do is a miliotary combat technique first and foremost. It has combined several distinct styles, (mnostly fro Japan) into what a General saw as the most fit for combat situatrions and physical training. There are no color belts. You're ewither a white belt or a black belt. I don't know where color belts came from, but unless you can stand your own in a reasonable fight, you stay a white belt. Do not ever mess with a legitimate Korean issued black belt. It usually takes a decade to obtain just the 1st degree, while people here in the States get theirs in like 16 months. 2 months between each stupid color.

6) Grappling is overrated. Why does it dominate in UFC? BEcause they're one on one in a tight ring. Specific rfeason grappling is overrated? Simple. If you get into a fight with just two people, and you're putting one guy in the armbar, the other guy is going to destroy the back oif you head, oneof the most vulnerable points on a person's body. Kicking isn't the end-all be-all. It relies on basic physics and strength and balance as does everythign else. But it is your most devastating weapon and can be used to keep distance, even against several foes. grappling can't do that and neither can punching (unless you're godly). If you look at tournament Tae Kwon Do fights, people are bouncing up and down because they're ready to jump in any direction to dodge and maneuiver or just flat out sprint in one direction for a better angle. One of the greatest fighting strategies ever conceived for any type of hand weapon combat or h2h combat was the run and single pick off strategy. You're fighting several opponents. You run away, until the fastest one catches up and you take him out before the others can catch up. Rinse and repeat. Punches don't have the power to accomplish this kind of quick knockout and grappling leaves you on the floor tussling. h2h? Kicking is the way to go. That is why Tae Kwon Do focuses so much on kicking and that is why manyh around the world see it as effective.

Is it the best? How the hell should I know. But it isn;t garbage, like you stated. Not by a long shot.

how many tons can deathstroke lift?

Iron fist!!!

Cap can do it.

No, you don't grab a roundhouse when it's about to strike you, you grab a slow-ass kick (or just the kicker him/herself) like that early on, before the kicker has built up any power, like Dan Severn did when he took down someone who attempted that very technique on him (unfortunately, I don't know the fighter's name now).

The point about running away to separate multiple fighters opposing you is meaningless in a 1v1 discussion, although yes, it does matter against multiple people. Then again, if it's like THAT, you're much better off grabbing an improvised weapon than kicking anyway.

Now you ARE right about grappling not helping nearly as much against multiple opponents. THAT'S true. And I'll tell you what else: in a REAL streetfight, there's also the problem that if you grapple someone who's serious/crazy enough and happens to have a knife, you're in serious trouble. A knife doesn't need any significant force behind it like a punch or a kick to inflict severe damage.

But if it's at THAT level and you're NOT either running like hell or grabbing anything handy to help you, you're nuts. Kicking is nothing compared to a baseball bat, a 2x4, a broken bottle ... etc.

Weapons is totally outside what we were talking about, so I'm not sure how you're using that premise against Tae Kwon Do, especially since weapons can equally be used as a premise against grappling and punching... So outside of that, since we apparently agree that kicking isn't overrated and can be effective in h2h situations and grappling is useless in any situation where there is more than one opponent, it sounds like we can be we can be friends now!

Captain America defeated Lady Deathstrike in h2h before! Captain A is one of the best in h2h. Slade might have some surprises but he will be more than surprise when he fight Cap.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Weapons is totally outside what we were talking about, so I'm not sure how you're using that premise against Tae Kwon Do, especially since weapons can equally be used as a premise against grappling and punching... So outside of that, since we apparently agree that kicking isn't overrated and can be effective in h2h situations and grappling is useless in any situation where there is more than one opponent, it sounds like we can be we can be friends now!

Well, I disagree heartily that grappling is useless when there's more than one opponent. It depends on what you do. Going to the ground probably isn't smart, but if you can control one person and then shove him into the path of another, you've got an immediate and decided edge. Just as one example.

I would imagine a BJJ fighter would not find that difficult to accomplish.

But my thing is that you brought up street/real-life combat situations (where you might face more than one opponent). And no, I wouldn't kick (much) in those, either. Maybe a sneaky shot to the knee or the groin or something. Nothing fancy. Maybe also running like hell at the first available opportunity, unless I had some pressing reason not to.

My legs are strong enough, by the way, to do one-legged squats, and can kick over my head if I wish to ... just to give you some perspective on what I COULD do.