On Geonosis...

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Se7in
When Mace was preping to rescue Obi-Wan and Anakin, he said he would gather all the Jedi he could. Numerous people on this site have mentioned the PT Jedi Order having numbers in the thousands, many Knights and Masters. My question is, why did Mace only take 200? Was it due to transportation or what?

Tangible God
More likely to the fact that he meant all the Jedi he had left in the temple at THAT time. Jedi were peacekeepers spread throughout the galaxy trying to bum smokes off lawbreakers.

Otherwise, how do you explain the fact that like 200 Jedi acted as generals during the war when only like 25 made it off Geonosis alive.

Sorgo
Prequel Era Jedi sucked it. Only a few good swordsman survived.


I mean two. stick out tongue

Darth_Glentract
PT Jedi are quite good actually. They just played a different role than former Jedi.

The PT Jedi were spread out across the galaxy, so, there were only 200 avaliable to take. I doubt they abandoned the Temple.

Sorgo
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
PT Jedi are quite good actually. They just played a different role than former Jedi.

The PT Jedi were spread out across the galaxy, so, there were only 200 avaliable to take. I doubt they abandoned the Temple.


The PT Jedi were pathetic. They all got owned to shit.

Darth Avis
well yea now if they had all the info they had pre Russan they would be pretty good

Tengu Man
Originally posted by Sorgo
The PT Jedi were pathetic. They all got owned to shit. thats a pretty odd thing to say, you opinion and all and i respect that, but why and how do they suck

Darth_Glentract
Originally posted by Sorgo
The PT Jedi were pathetic. They all got owned to shit.

I don't see any Ancient Jedi standing.

Sorgo
Originally posted by Tengu Man
thats a pretty odd thing to say, you opinion and all and i respect that, but why and how do they suck


They were horribly owned by Clones of a bounty hunter. Their swordsmanship sucks, none of them were smart enough to oversee Sidious' plan, and they straight up have horrible tactics.


They deserve death.

Julie
They got shot in the back by the soldiers under their command....force premonitions aside...who'd have thought

Fishy
Well those yes, those didn't necessarily sucked. Nobody could have stopped that except for the greats.. But take Geonosis for instance, that was just weak.

Se7in
But come one, if there is at least 10,000 in the Order, 9,800 of them are all out in the galaxy? And why did he not take weak Jedi when 90% of them all died?

Fishy
What are you saying that the 200 Jedi that were there, were the weakest Jedi? I doubt it if you look at who was there, everybody that survived it was one of the greats of the PT era or would become one of the greats. Those that weren't there didn't become as great, or as famous. And only a few of them actually got to such a level, if any at all.

So why woudl we think those 200 were the weaklings? When there is no evidence for that at all.

Sesse
Most of them died.

Se7in
It's a fact that all the Jedi that died were not martially-skilled, those that did survived. I'm saying, why take only a small number of Jedi, when you know they aren't trained for battle. A larger number would've made the battle easier, and possibly (though maybe the not) less casualties.

Fishy
Originally posted by Se7in
It's a fact that all the Jedi that died were not martially-skilled, those that did survived. I'm saying, why take only a small number of Jedi, when you know they aren't trained for battle. A larger number would've made the battle easier, and possibly (though maybe the not) less casualties.

The Jedi don't think like that, they would have send the best they coudl at that time. Meaning those 200 Jedi were the best or all they could send. They did not send more to hvae more cannon food.

Deus Ex
Interesting topic.

The point is, the entire battle was a blunder by Mace and the jedi. They encircled the arena instead of concentrating their forces (even with a flanking maneuver) on a focal point, and it ended up in them being in the center of the kill zone.

Honestly, there is nothing to indicate that the PT jedi were that good or really that bad in the situation, since they did a major F-up and the battle was a disaster. However, it should be noted that those who survived were the creme de la creme of the jedi order, and went on to be generals in the following Clone Wars battles.

And Glentract, that statement was a bit foolish; of course there are no ancient jedi standing. They're dead.

Ushgarak
A very weird POV, Fishy. Those Jedi killed vast amounts of foes; they were amazing warriors.

This idea that 'everything was better in the olden days' is particularly annoying.

Fishy
Originally posted by Ushgarak
A very weird POV, Fishy. Those Jedi killed vast amounts of foes; they were amazing warriors.

This idea that 'everything was better in the olden days' is particularly annoying.

Well its true though, these Jedi weren't trained for war. They were killed by droids, other people should have been able to more easily destroy those droids. If they would have actually spend time learning how to block with a lightsaber, if they would have spend time on learning how to use a weapon like that a lot of things would be better for the Jedi.

But they failed. Not because they couldn't be as good but because they refused to be, because they had better things to do and did not get the experience. If so many Jedi can die in such a possition when they have such an advantage at the start... Well i'm sorry but they are doing something wrong. And its not because they couldn't, but because they wouldn't do it the right way.

Ushgarak
They were killed by THOUSANDS of droids! And they survived for a very long time with very competent blocking.

Seriously, I do not understand for one moment where you are coming from.

Fishy
Okay...

Did they defeat the droids? No..

Did they win the clone wars? No

Did Jedi get killed by GG a droid without force powers? Yes

Did the Jedi that got killed all practice one style that sucks? Yes

Could a better general have saved lives? Hell yes.

Could the Jedi with better training have done all that they should have done? Yes again.

I mean seriously they jumped into that arena like a bunch of crazy idiots, not working together but just standing there trying to block a bunch of attacks. Every Niman user at that battle died.

What does that tell you, that the style sucks. It was also the most used style. Then we have jedi losing from a droid. Any Jedi with a powerful force connection should win from GG. Just use the force, kick him away and if necessary run like a coward. Its weak but better then dying really.

If they would have used some basic tactics i'm sure they could have avoided many deaths with ease.

Face it they practiced the wrong style and they weren't used to fighting. This makes the Ancient Jedi better because they practiced good styles and they had experience.

Ushgarak
This focus on style is an irreelvance. It's just a filmmaking thing. Smacks of being sucked into EU as well.

There is nothing strange about losing to overwhelming nubmers of droids, and GG was designed specifically as a villain who can beat Jeid, therefore your analysis that Jedi 'should' be able to beat them is incorrect.

The Jedi did not defeat the droids because of numbers and no other reason. It may have escaped your notice, but the Jedi DID win the Clone Wars.

If you want to talk about the 'sense' of tactics in freaking Star Wars- where armies line up in rows like it was Napoleonic times- then you have kinda let the point fly over your head.

Ancient Jedi better? Tosh.

Fishy
Tactics like that, they shouldn't be used. But is it just me or could they have blocked the entrances to the Arena. They have the force afterall. Could they not have taken out Dooku right away and Jango Fett for that matter. They should have started the combat on the spectators area instead of on open ground where they have the disadvantage.

The style's are relevant because this is an EU forum so it counts.

GG was designed to kill Jedi yes, but he shouldn't have been able too. He could be better then all of them in a lightsaber fight I would not have cared, but the very thought that he could kill only one Jedi. A Jedi who has mystic powers that can push objects twice GG his weight away with ease is just strange. He should not be able to do that, the Jedi should have used the force to take him out. They weren't ready for such a thing and therefor they were weak.

And yes there is something strange about them losing to overwelming numbers because obviously all that didn't practice that worthless form could survive. So you would think there is something wrong with the form. And with their ability to fight, more should have survived. They should have thought about what they were going to do. Peace has made the Jedi soft and lazy.

Ushgarak
Yes, if this had been a game, the Jedi would have stood by the entrances and hacked down droids as they entered.

But it is not a agme, it is a film- and that should be remembered. Film logic screws any manner of tactics in favour of entertainment- much as it eschews logic in lightsabre 'styles' or 'forms'.

It ight be the EU forum but it is italking about a film event with film logic (and will indeed be moved on the Episode II area if it carries on like this), which leaves the EU in error if it contradicts.

Why should more have survived? What makes you think that? I cannot see your logic at all. Against those numbers only the greatest lived, regardless of babble about forms.

masterkit
Fishy, u keep asking y they didnt use the force. They did if u remember Ki-Adi Mundi used it, but GG saw and moved before it hit him.

Jango didnt attack at first so there was no sense in trying to kill him.

They would have went to kill him but they were being over run by droids.

Wich brings me to the point that there was more Droids than Jedi which means that on Jedi could be easily killed by droids. If a Jedi reflects a Super Battle Droids lazers and hit the droid again it wouldnt go down. The Super Battle Droids are stronger than that.

And the style thing Jedi all have different styles, not the same.

Sorgo
The PT Jedi were horrid!


They couldn't see a conspiracy involving all of their own soldiers, not to mentioned the complete ownage the Sith layed down on their asses.

So thousands of Jedi are owned by Maul, Dooku, Vader and Sidious throughout the years. They all get pwned except for Kenobi and Yoda.

Some Jedi they are.

And then a kid who builds droids gets three years of Jedi Experience, grabs a smuggler and a princess and rapes the Sith and defeats the Imperial army, in which some are Clone troopers, that once killed so many Jedi?


THE PT JEDI WERE HORRIBLE.

Se7in
PT Jedi were weak because:

Lack of martial effectiveness
Lack of effectiveness in battle
Too much emphasis on capturing prisoners, death is a the safest way for some enemies
Too much emphasis on diplomacy in a Republic that was already falling apart
Lack of preparation for a martial conflict
Not a large enough of reserve Jedi when compared to the total amount
Restriction of certain Force powers

And numerous others...

Sorgo
Originally posted by Se7in
PT Jedi were weak because:

Lack of martial effectiveness
Lack of effectiveness in battle
Too much emphasis on capturing prisoners, death is a the safest way for some enemies
Too much emphasis on diplomacy in a Republic that was already falling apart
Lack of preparation for a martial conflict
Not a large enough of reserve Jedi when compared to the total amount
Restriction of certain Force powers

And numerous others...


The seven excuses of the crappy Prequel Jedi.

Se7in
Those aren't excuses, they're the reasons the PT Jedi are weak,

Darth_Glentract
Originally posted by Sorgo
The PT Jedi were horrid!B]

Dooku was a PT Jedi.

Se7in
Dooku wasn't exactly the smartest "Jedi" either. Why would you trust a Sith Lord, one who has a history of trying to kill his apprentices? More or less, why would you want to let Anakin live, I mean how smart do you have to be to say "Hey, I there's another person to be his apprentice, what'll happen to me?"

Sorgo
Originally posted by Se7in
Dooku wasn't exactly the smartest "Jedi" either. Why would you trust a Sith Lord, one who has a history of trying to kill his apprentices? More or less, why would you want to let Anakin live, I mean how smart do you have to be to say "Hey, I there's another person to be his apprentice, what'll happen to me?"


Dooku was great Jedi. A famed Jedi in which was liked by everyone in the Order. He set an example for many Jedi.

His whole point in his final duel was to make Anakin his apprentice. He got Kenobi out of the way and began to try to talk Anakin into channeling his Dark side. Dooku changed his form so he wouldn't kill Anakin but was overwhelmed when Anakin unleashed a fit of rage onto the Sith Lord whom changed his Form for the time being. Dooku's arrogance led to his death.

Tangible God
Originally posted by Sorgo
They were horribly owned by Clones of a bounty hunter. Their swordsmanship sucks, none of them were smart enough to oversee Sidious' plan, and they straight up have horrible tactics.


They deserve death. So do you for suggesting the continuity of the movies be abandoned just 'cause you thought they died unheroically.

DarthMaul9123
the way i see it the pt jedi had to be killed off to make the story line correct see thats why plus they were outnumbered 50 to 1 in the arena and the others had about 10,000 clones to fight against

Lana
Originally posted by Sorgo
The PT Jedi were horrid!


They couldn't see a conspiracy involving all of their own soldiers, not to mentioned the complete ownage the Sith layed down on their asses.

So thousands of Jedi are owned by Maul, Dooku, Vader and Sidious throughout the years. They all get pwned except for Kenobi and Yoda.

Some Jedi they are.

And then a kid who builds droids gets three years of Jedi Experience, grabs a smuggler and a princess and rapes the Sith and defeats the Imperial army, in which some are Clone troopers, that once killed so many Jedi?


THE PT JEDI WERE HORRIBLE.

The PT Jedi get their asses kicked by the clones for a very simple reason, and for that reason only: their ability to use the Force to see the future was clouded by the Dark Side. Yoda himself says this. The clones, who greatly outnumbered the Jedi, remember, turned on them during battle; the Jedi were all concentrating on winning the fight and even had their sense of the Force NOT been clouded by the Dark Side I think they would have been hard-pressed to sense a split-second betrayal like that.

The slaughter on Geonosis? They were greatly outnumbered. The fact that they were against droids means nothing; if anything it'd make the battle harder for the Jedi as droids can be easily and quickly replaced, unlike if they had been fighting living opponents.

Luke managed what he did by sheer luck alone, so far as I'm concerned. He was barely trained and quite frankly, a wimp and not all that strong. And he did NOT defeat the Imperials by himself, the fact was that they only just barely won, and, as I'm sure you'd know since you like the EU so much, they continued to fight the Imperials for a very long time aftwards.

Sorgo
Originally posted by Lana
The PT Jedi get their asses kicked by the clones for a very simple reason, and for that reason only: their ability to use the Force to see the future was clouded by the Dark Side. Yoda himself says this. The clones, who greatly outnumbered the Jedi, remember, turned on them during battle; the Jedi were all concentrating on winning the fight and even had their sense of the Force NOT been clouded by the Dark Side I think they would have been hard-pressed to sense a split-second betrayal like that.

The slaughter on Geonosis? They were greatly outnumbered. The fact that they were against droids means nothing; if anything it'd make the battle harder for the Jedi as droids can be easily and quickly replaced, unlike if they had been fighting living opponents.

Luke managed what he did by sheer luck alone, so far as I'm concerned. He was barely trained and quite frankly, a wimp and not all that strong. And he did NOT defeat the Imperials by himself, the fact was that they only just barely won, and, as I'm sure you'd know since you like the EU so much, they continued to fight the Imperials for a very long time aftwards.


I like EU so much? An untrue Assumption, at best.


I'm sure Luke endured luke when he defeated his Experienced Father in Lightsaber combat, helped destroy an entire army and end the reign of the Sith.


Kenobi, Mace, Yoda and alot of other Jedi did not have problems with the droids. They were the only Jedi that survived. Well, with the exception of Windu. Wanna know why they survived? Because they were decent Jedi who had the proper saber skills and wise knowledge to survive long enough.

The other Jedi were pathetic, their tactics were shit on a stick and their saber skills ate my balls.

What?! Even so, Kenobi is told by Dooku on Episode II these exact words.

Count Dooku: The Dark Side has clouded their vision. Hundreds of senators are now under the influence of a Sith lord called Darth Sidious.


You think the Prequel Jedi are so good? Listen to Kenobi's reply to Dooku's statement.

Obi-Wan: I don't believe you.


How pathetic is that? He didn't report this to the Council, either.

And Sidious ripping three Jedi apart in mere seconds? Don't tell me they were suprised, either. They had their Lightsabers ignited. They got ripped apart because of their shoddy Lightsaber skill and their half ass knowledge.

DrDoom101
Mace needed some jedi to stay back and baby-sit the younglings. Besides, you would be wasting Jedi if u bring the whole Jedi Temple

Tangible God
Originally posted by Sorgo
I like EU so much? An untrue Assumption, at best.


I'm sure Luke endured luke when he defeated his Experienced Father in Lightsaber combat, helped destroy an entire army and end the reign of the Sith.


Kenobi, Mace, Yoda and alot of other Jedi did not have problems with the droids. They were the only Jedi that survived. Well, with the exception of Windu. Wanna know why they survived? Because they were decent Jedi who had the proper saber skills and wise knowledge to survive long enough.

The other Jedi were pathetic, their tactics were shit on a stick and their saber skills ate my balls.

What?! Even so, Kenobi is told by Dooku on Episode II these exact words.

Count Dooku: The Dark Side has clouded their vision. Hundreds of senators are now under the influence of a Sith lord called Darth Sidious.


You think the Prequel Jedi are so good? Listen to Kenobi's reply to Dooku's statement.

Obi-Wan: I don't believe you.


How pathetic is that? He didn't report this to the Council, either.

And Sidious ripping three Jedi apart in mere seconds? Don't tell me they were suprised, either. They had their Lightsabers ignited. They got ripped apart because of their shoddy Lightsaber skill and their half ass knowledge. Woah! Calm down Bessy.

Didn't report it? When he said to Mace at the end of AOTC:

"Do you think it's true, about Sidious controlling the Senate, it doesn't feel right."

Just 'cause we didn't hear a word by word account of his "debriefing," doesn't mean he didn't say anything.

And Christ on a stick man! It's a f*ckin PREQUEL to a movie! They HAVE to keep the storyline continuity in check. The whole tale of Vader HIMSELF killing off the Jedi is Bull and GL knew it.

So how are they gonna do it huh? How are they gonna make it seem feasible? The Dark Side WAS clouding their minds, and as well, their judgement of peoples intentions. And they were clones...drones, mindless servants to the Emperor, neuroligically/Force linked to obey his every command no matter what, or however else you want to say it.

Either way, the Jedi are gonna have a harder time sensing deception from THEM more than they would natural sentients even WITHOUT the Dark clouding them.

You'll notice they didn't give the Jedi much of a chance to escape as well. Blown up on a speeder bike, in a ship, two were shot from behind. Not the most glamorous, but it gets the job done.

If they were killed while anticipating the Clones attacks THEN you can call them weak fools.

And Luke endured luke???

He DID barely escape, if it wasn't for his daddy all tripped out on his own emotions, while Luke touched the Dark, (which a good l'il Jedi should never do), and if it wasn't for dear 'ol pa, turning on his master at the last moment, BEHIND HIS BACK, then Luke would've been f*cked.

Sorgo
Originally posted by Tangible God
Woah! Calm down Bessy.

Didn't report it? When he said to Mace at the end of AOTC:

"Do you think it's true, about Sidious controlling the Senate, it doesn't feel right."

Just 'cause we didn't hear a word by word account of his "debriefing," doesn't mean he didn't say anything.

So how are they gonna do it huh? How are they gonna make it seem feasible? The Dark Side WAS clouding their minds, and as well, their judgement of peoples intentions. And they were clones...drones, mindless servants to the Emperor, neuroligically/Force linked to obey his every command no matter what, or however else you want to say it.

Either way, the Jedi are gonna have a harder time sensing deception from THEM more than they would natural sentients even WITHOUT the Dark clouding them.

You'll notice they didn't give the Jedi much of a chance to escape as well. Blown up on a speeder bike, in a ship, two were shot from behind. Not the most glamorous, but it gets the job done.

If they were killed while anticipating the Clones attacks THEN you can call them weak fools.

And Luke endured luke???

He DID barely escape, if it wasn't for his daddy all tripped out on his own emotions, while Luke touched the Dark, (which a good l'il Jedi should never do), and if it wasn't for dear 'ol pa, turning on his master at the last moment, BEHIND HIS BACK, then Luke would've been f*cked.



He DID barely escape, if it wasn't for his daddy all tripped out on his own emotions, while Luke touched the Dark, (which a good l'il Jedi should never do), and if it wasn't for dear 'ol pa, turning on his master at the last moment, BEHIND HIS BACK, then Luke would've been f*cked.

Oh my god... You miss the point. Luke cut his fathers hand off and basically owned him within Lightsaber combat and he had three years of Experience with Lightsabers. Anakin had... How many years? Since he was a small child?

You'll notice they didn't give the Jedi much of a chance to escape as well. Blown up on a speeder bike, in a ship, two were shot from behind. Not the most glamorous, but it gets the job done.

Ki Adi Mundi got f*cked in front, Jett did, Kit got punked, Agen got shit f*cked and Sassee got pretty much juiced out.

FOUR Jedi Masters against one Sith Lord, and they all end up dying? That's truthfully pathetic.

So how are they gonna do it huh? How are they gonna make it seem feasible? The Dark Side WAS clouding their minds, and as well, their judgement of peoples intentions. And they were clones...drones, mindless servants to the Emperor, neuroligically/Force linked to obey his every command no matter what, or however else you want to say it.

That's great, but that would probably mean that the Light side would be weaker than the Dark side in this instance. If these "Jedi" cannot see through the cloud using their enlightened Force powers, doesn't that make them pathetic? Or just crappy Jedi? The Sith owned the Jedi, and the Jedi were pathetic enough to walk right into it. They were clouded? Any Jedi whom is powerful enough could have seen through it, but... Y'know.... They aren't powerful enough.


If they were killed while anticipating the Clones attacks THEN you can call them weak fools.
You think out of like hundreds of Jedi, all of them are gonna get shot in the back? Jett didn't. Ki Adi Mundi didn't. Be real.

Tangible God
If I gave a rats ass who Jett was, I'd ask, but Mundi was facing away from then, heard there guns charge, turned right when they fired. God, the only Lightsider to escape THAT barage and live is....................?

I wasn't talking about the Jedi in Palpatines office, they got owned, only cause Lucas needed them out of the way for Mace and Palps to fight.

And since we don't actually know how EVERY single Jedi was killed, we can't say anything about THEM can we?

And did you ever think that maybe because for once, the Dark Side was more poweful than the light? Does that still make the Jedi weak? Literally 1000's of years of Force domination in the galaxy and NOW they start to wane. Ever consider that maybe, the Dark Side just might be stronger than they are this time. Still doesn't mean they sharply declined and the Dark's barely any better.

And again, as part of the script, Vader HAD to lose.

If he didn't than Luke would've fallen, or died. The Hero in this story was pre-written to live for the audience's favour. FOUR f*ckin years of training. Four against like 40. It's bullshit.

Vader put up a better fight against a crippled old man, there was more MOVING of the limbs in ESB. In ROTJ, did you see how cumbersome those two were fighting? Wildly swinging and barely blocking. That is NOT Jedi fighting.

I've done that with a rapier when I was 11 after I watched ROTJ, purely for the sake of mocking their movements. That Was NOT fighting.

Sorgo
If I gave a rats ass who Jett was, I'd ask, but Mundi was facing away from then, heard there guns charge, turned right when they fired. God, the only Lightsider to escape THAT barage and live is....................?

Ki Adi Mundi had time to block... Oh wait, he did block a few shots before his shitty Lightsaber skills caught up with him. SHAZAM!

I wasn't talking about the Jedi in Palpatines office, they got owned, only cause Lucas needed them out of the way for Mace and Palps to fight.

Don't go by the script. It means nothing. We are talking about the SWU. Well, i was talking about the Prequel Jedi. I don't know where the hell you are. The Jedi Masters got owned. Bottom line. It's all due to the fact that they suck arse.

And since we don't actually know how EVERY single Jedi was killed, we can't say anything about THEM can we?
Well, assuming most of them or all of them were shot in the back is pretty stupid when we saw a few that were prepared for the Clones.

And did you ever think that maybe because for once, the Dark Side was more poweful than the light? Does that still make the Jedi weak? Literally 1000's of years of Force domination in the galaxy and NOW they start to wane. Ever consider that maybe, the Dark Side just might be stronger than they are this time. Still doesn't mean they sharply declined and the Dark's barely any better.

Right... Of course.

And again, as part of the script, Vader HAD to lose.
Oh my god... Anyone can go into the script. The point is he lost to his son with three years of Lightsaber experience. Stop going outside the box, buddy. It just degrades your arguement to shit.

If he didn't than Luke would've fallen, or died. The Hero in this story was pre-written to live for the audience's favour. FOUR f*ckin years of training. Four against like 40. It's bullshit.

It isn't bullshit. It happened.

Vader put up a better fight against a crippled old man, there was more MOVING of the limbs in ESB. In ROTJ, did you see how cumbersome those two were fighting? Wildly swinging and barely blocking. That is NOT Jedi fighting.

Oh my god... An excuse? Provide proof that he degraded from ESB to ROTJ.

Tru_Slice
Lucas is out there reading this, and laughing his ass off.

Ushgarak
He certainly is.

Are you trying to suggest that Luke, a half-trained Padawan whose only accomplishment was beating his crippled, emotionally confused father, is a better Jedi than the ones who died at Geonosis?

This whole concept is so stupid I don't even know how my brain can try and encompass it. All this retarded talk of shitty lightsabre skills... something wrong with yuor eyews? or your brain, not seeing how the film is CLEARLY presenting things- i.e. the Jedi are all elite warriors who can take on many times their own number but cannot fight entire armies alone?

And you bash them for not seeing the Conspiracy? In case uyou hadn;t noticed, the Jedi don't actually have a movie screen to sit in front off and have all the events happily explained to them. In fact they were living in a Galaxy where the great power of the Dark Side was specifically hiding all of this from them. And you assume that powerful Jedi should be able to see through that. Why? What makes you think that? This power of the Sith is clearly presented as unstoppable.

But all things considered... I'm sorry, but it is this implication that their sabre skills were poor that gets me. What freaking right do you make the benchmark against, that fighting several hundred times your number for half an hour before finally being worn down and killed, reflecting laser blasts all that time, is somehow evidence of poor sabreing? Ok, so only the very best survived. How does that make the ones who died bad, in any wasy, just because the survivors were the best?

Do you want to go out and do any better? Or, from a different view, do you want to go and do Nick Gilliard's job, as in interview he clearly said that the main thing about the arena scene was to show just how good Jedi were with Lightsabres. I think he showed just that; your eyesight is obviously off the mark here.

My God, this is the pits, it really is. The only thing ever worse than this idea is the 'Qui-Gon was Sifo-Dyas' one.

Watch the films properly, because this truly is feeble. It is going agaionst everything that is presented to us. You could only twist your head to this POV by having some desperate desire to want the PT JEdi to be bad. Well sorry- but that is not one iota supported on-screen.

Fishy
No ush, seriously...

They were still Jedi that by themselves makes them good. But you have to admit that their lightsaber training was limited and weak. That so many Jedi practiced a weak form means that a shit load of Jedi didn't think it was important to learn the best of the best forms. Why not? Because obviously they felt they wouldn't need it.

In ancient times, everybody tried to learn the great forms because itw as necessary without it you couldn't survive, thats what makes the PT Jedi weka. Peace. It has made them lazy, without conflict they had nothing to test themselves against and no reason to improve. They were never challenged, so of course they wouldn't be as good as the older one's who were constantly living with fights threats and wars.

Se7in
PT Jedi were weak, period. They practiced diplomacy and speechcraft over combat skills and Force mastery. They were ignorant, corrupt, and insufficient to protect a Republic that was falling-apart.

Fishy
It would have been hard for anybody to protect a republic that has not seen a challenge in a thousand years. Take the war to the republic and it is bound to fall someway or another.

But still, you are right about the rest it made them weaker that in combination with the relative low amount of lightsaber wielding opponents. Most of them never faced a lightsaber wielder for live or dead. And those that did almost all died. Only Obi Wan, Anakin and Yoda survived an encounter with an actual Sith.

Yoda who couldn't finish off one Sith Lord
Obi Wan who got pwned by Dooku twice
And Anakin who became a Sith Lord himself.

the PT Jedi weren't good enough fighters to stand against the ancients who trained. They would have lost from many warrior races that the ancients did defeat or fight. Would those Jedi have been around at the time of the Mandelorian wars then the Mandelorians would have won the war.

Tangible God
Originally posted by Sorgo
If I gave a rats ass who Jett was, I'd ask, but Mundi was facing away from then, heard there guns charge, turned right when they fired. God, the only Lightsider to escape THAT barage and live is....................?

Ki Adi Mundi had time to block... Oh wait, he did block a few shots before his shitty Lightsaber skills caught up with him. SHAZAM!

I wasn't talking about the Jedi in Palpatines office, they got owned, only cause Lucas needed them out of the way for Mace and Palps to fight.

Don't go by the script. It means nothing. We are talking about the SWU. Well, i was talking about the Prequel Jedi. I don't know where the hell you are. The Jedi Masters got owned. Bottom line. It's all due to the fact that they suck arse.

And since we don't actually know how EVERY single Jedi was killed, we can't say anything about THEM can we?
Well, assuming most of them or all of them were shot in the back is pretty stupid when we saw a few that were prepared for the Clones.

And did you ever think that maybe because for once, the Dark Side was more poweful than the light? Does that still make the Jedi weak? Literally 1000's of years of Force domination in the galaxy and NOW they start to wane. Ever consider that maybe, the Dark Side just might be stronger than they are this time. Still doesn't mean they sharply declined and the Dark's barely any better.

Right... Of course.

And again, as part of the script, Vader HAD to lose.
Oh my god... Anyone can go into the script. The point is he lost to his son with three years of Lightsaber experience. Stop going outside the box, buddy. It just degrades your arguement to shit.

If he didn't than Luke would've fallen, or died. The Hero in this story was pre-written to live for the audience's favour. FOUR f*ckin years of training. Four against like 40. It's bullshit.

It isn't bullshit. It happened.

Vader put up a better fight against a crippled old man, there was more MOVING of the limbs in ESB. In ROTJ, did you see how cumbersome those two were fighting? Wildly swinging and barely blocking. That is NOT Jedi fighting.

Oh my god... An excuse? Provide proof that he degraded from ESB to ROTJ. Sorgo, argue my points next time, don't insult, it only proves your lack of intellectual capacity.

I admit, Mundi sucked in that scene, but I had to fight for him to support my case. But I do hate him. That's MY opinion.

"'Well, assuming most of them or all of them were shot in the back is pretty stupid when we saw a few that were prepared for the Clones.'"

So do you agree with what I said or not?

And kid, those four Jedi Master is Palps office got owned by an even more powerful Sith Master. Are you gonna say that THAT'S not possible?

And it's bullshit because it didn't make sense. Like Ush said, a padawan Jedi with barely any training in those four years killing his emotionally crippled, yielding dad makes him better than all the PT Jedi?

Who said he f*cking degraded? He just wasn't putting the effort into his second fight with Luke that he put into his first.

Fishy
He didn't even put a lot of power in the first fight... I mean just look, the second he got pissed Luke was down for the count before that the two just fought with Vader being superior.

Sorgo
Sorgo, argue my points next time, don't insult, it only proves your lack of intellectual capacity.
Your points suck. There is almost thin strain to argue.

I admit, Mundi sucked in that scene, but I had to fight for him to support my case. But I do hate him. That's MY opinion.
Peanut head got his shit kicked in.

"'Well, assuming most of them or all of them were shot in the back is pretty stupid when we saw a few that were prepared for the Clones.'"

So do you agree with what I said or not?

C'mon, Tangible. You can do better than that.

And kid, those four Jedi Master is Palps office got owned by an even more powerful Sith Master. Are you gonna say that THAT'S not possible?

Kid? I am a year older than you, according to our profiles. Exactly! The Sith Lord was more powerful, and the Prequel Jedi could never even get near his power, being that they are horrid.

And it's bullshit because it didn't make sense. Like Ush said, a padawan Jedi with barely any training in those four years killing his emotionally crippled, yielding dad makes him better than all the PT Jedi?

Indeed, after all, his father killed alot of those Jedi even *AFTER* his Mustafar accident and before. Hmm...

Who said he f*cking degraded? He just wasn't putting the effort into his second fight with Luke that he put into his first.

Prove it.

Sorgo
He certainly is.

Are you trying to suggest that Luke, a half-trained Padawan whose only accomplishment was beating his crippled, emotionally confused father, is a better Jedi than the ones who died at Geonosis?


Yup.

This whole concept is so stupid I don't even know how my brain can try and encompass it. All this retarded talk of shitty lightsabre skills... something wrong with yuor eyews? or your brain, not seeing how the film is CLEARLY presenting things- i.e. the Jedi are all elite warriors who can take on many times their own number but cannot fight entire armies alone?

And you bash them for not seeing the Conspiracy? In case uyou hadn;t noticed, the Jedi don't actually have a movie screen to sit in front off and have all the events happily explained to them. In fact they were living in a Galaxy where the great power of the Dark Side was specifically hiding all of this from them. And you assume that powerful Jedi should be able to see through that. Why? What makes you think that? This power of the Sith is clearly presented as unstoppable.

It was stopped in the Original Trilogy. By a rebel army, whereas the Jedi failed to stop the Sith or their army, the Rebel army administered that task. Unfortunatley, the PT Jedi are just shitty.

But all things considered... I'm sorry, but it is this implication that their sabre skills were poor that gets me. What freaking right do you make the benchmark against, that fighting several hundred times your number for half an hour before finally being worn down and killed, reflecting laser blasts all that time, is somehow evidence of poor sabreing? Ok, so only the very best survived. How does that make the ones who died bad, in any wasy, just because the survivors were the best?

Like people say about Darth Maul.

"Darth Maul totally won the fight."

Well, was Kenobi the one sitting at the bottom of a Generator in two pieces at the end of that fight? Kenobi won. He is the better fighter. Maul freaked up and Kenobi took advantage of that.

If the survivors didn't die, i think i am gonna take that as a clue that they are the best because they didn't get ravaged by the Clones, but interm ravaged them.

Do you want to go out and do any better? Or, from a different view, do you want to go and do Nick Gilliard's job, as in interview he clearly said that the main thing about the arena scene was to show just how good Jedi were with Lightsabres. I think he showed just that; your eyesight is obviously off the mark here.

Hmm... Alot of these Jedi died in the arena. Damn, their good!

My God, this is the pits, it really is. The only thing ever worse than this idea is the 'Qui-Gon was Sifo-Dyas' one.

No, it is an opinion. I value yours, please do mine.

Watch the films properly, because this truly is feeble. It is going agaionst everything that is presented to us. You could only twist your head to this POV by having some desperate desire to want the PT JEdi to be bad. Well sorry- but that is not one iota supported on-screen.

Right. There are probably hundreds of thousands of people who share my view about the Prequel Jedi being horrid Jedi. You think they are *ALL* stupid? Or are you just saying this to benefit your own personal "POV"?

Tangible God
Originally posted by Sorgo
Sorgo, argue my points next time, don't insult, it only proves your lack of intellectual capacity.
Your points suck. There is almost thin strain to argue.

I admit, Mundi sucked in that scene, but I had to fight for him to support my case. But I do hate him. That's MY opinion.
Peanut head got his shit kicked in.

"'Well, assuming most of them or all of them were shot in the back is pretty stupid when we saw a few that were prepared for the Clones.'"

So do you agree with what I said or not?

C'mon, Tangible. You can do better than that.

And kid, those four Jedi Master is Palps office got owned by an even more powerful Sith Master. Are you gonna say that THAT'S not possible?

Kid? I am a year older than you, according to our profiles. Exactly! The Sith Lord was more powerful, and the Prequel Jedi could never even get near his power, being that they are horrid.

And it's bullshit because it didn't make sense. Like Ush said, a padawan Jedi with barely any training in those four years killing his emotionally crippled, yielding dad makes him better than all the PT Jedi?

Indeed, after all, his father killed alot of those Jedi even *AFTER* his Mustafar accident and before. Hmm...

Who said he f*cking degraded? He just wasn't putting the effort into his second fight with Luke that he put into his first.

Prove it. (sigh) There's too many variables and plot-gaps to work with too keep this up.

"C'mon, Tangible. You can do better than that." And so can you, answer my question.

So the Sith were better? So what? Just cause Sidious was better than them doesn't mean they suck.

His DAD killed all those Jedi without his suit. Luke beat his (sighs again) emotionally crippled, yielding dad, WITH the suit. You must know the statistics about suit-Vader and non-suit-Vader. And movie only, we're not talking about what happened off screen and in between movies.

I never reveal my personal information to total strangers, including my age.

And being a film and not real life, we can only judge by what we see. Vader wasn't putting up much of a fight in ROTJ in comparison to his fight in ESB, and Luke was swinging like a madman when he took him down, with Darth doing little more than blocking. You know this, you must.

Frankly I believe that the PT Jedi weren't much compared to Jedi of the past. But to call them pathetic, weak fools is just b*tchiness.

Nai Fohl
Originally posted by Fishy
They were still Jedi that by themselves makes them good. But you have to admit that their lightsaber training was limited and weak. That so many Jedi practiced a weak form means that a shit load of Jedi didn't think it was important to learn the best of the best forms. Why not? Because obviously they felt they wouldn't need it.

Their lightsaber training was so weak that all people confronted with Jedi - if not being headhunters or Sith - immediatly go panic in the films when a lightsaber is ignited. They are so weak that Lucas in the TPM commentary tells us that he wants them to be "invincible" and "unstopable".

The tactics they used on Geonosis (oops...they didn't have tactics) did suck but in fact some of them survived some amount of time being horrible outnumbered and attacked with heavy weapons.



Oh yes. All the great wars that the ancient Jedi participated in must make them unbelievable good lightsaber duellists. In fact even the ancient Jedi lived in times of peace.
No major conflicts we know about between 5,000 BBY and 4,000 BBY. Then in times of Exar Kun and Ulic Quel-Droma I remember 4 battles (not wars - BATTLES): Two on Onderon (one against Amanoa, one against Ommin), the Battle of Deneba (against Krath droids - where THOUSANDS of Jedi including Arca Jeth were killed) and the final defeat of Exar Kun on Yavin 4.

What can we learn here: When confronted with huge numbers of droids even the ancient Jedi go down.



The point is that there weren't "constant challenges". In fact we have a period of peace from Sadow to Nadd (600 years - with a single battle against Nadd) another one between Nadd and Kun (400 years), then another one (40 years) till Revan came up. Than nearly 2,000 years until the Sith Order was installed again. Using your own theory (times of peace make the Jedi lazy) the Jedi of Kun's time would be exactly as lazy (and weak) as the people in PT times.

Oh no. Stop. The force users alive in ROTS would actually be the best because being the only ones that have gone through 3 years of constant challenges (the clone wars) where the ancient one were only confronted with a few battles.

Se7in
PT era was the weakest point of the Jedi, period. Jedi from any other era I have heard of would dominate them.

Nai Fohl
Originally posted by Se7in
PT era was the weakest point of the Jedi, period. Jedi from any other era I have heard of would dominate them.

They would ? How would they having only 1/10 of the training the PT Jedi had...

If there is a fight between somebody who trained in a fighting style for 40 or even 60 years from infancy on and somebody who trained the same stuff for 4 or 5 years - who do you think is going to win ?

Fishy
Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Their lightsaber training was so weak that all people confronted with Jedi - if not being headhunters or Sith - immediatly go panic in the films when a lightsaber is ignited. They are so weak that Lucas in the TPM commentary tells us that he wants them to be "invincible" and "unstopable".

Of course people are going to be scared of Jedi, they are still Jedi that still makes them damn powerful now doesn't it?



Why didn't they have tactics? Because they were fools and idiots, because they didn't think about this battle at all. Jedi aren't army's they aren't supposed to fight like that, but they did and they did so unprepared high casualty's were expected. But look at those casualty's they all practiced the same form, telling you what? That the form they practiced was weak and stupid and that it shouldn't be used, yet Jedi did it because they didn't think it was necessary to learn a better form.



True, no Major conflict that we know off. However they believed the Sith were still around they had plenty of other things to worry about and they still trained. They had too. This is a difference in thinking, the PT Jedi thought the Sith were extinct. Earlier Jedi did not, now tell me who is going to fight better.



Of course they do, but if they would have been on Geonosis i'm sure they would have done a better job. Why? Because they would have used the force in more offensive ways, they would have destroyed entrances and pushed down lines. They would have attacked Dooku and they would have practiced more forms. Creating a much higher casualty rate in the droid army's. And surviving a lot longer themselves. I never said that no Jedi should have died.



Wrong, there was a constant threat to talk about. Look at it like this, before WWII the entire world let their army's slip except for those that were about to go to war. And why? Because there weren't any threats, then after WWII ended the cold war started. Now this war had minimal real wars but still the army's made huge improvements. Why? Because of a constant threat from the other side of the ocean.

If your way of live is threatened you are going to improve your army's and your fighting style as much as you can. You saw it yourself in TPM the Jedi were surprised about the Sith, they hadn't expected it. A few droids and normal people they can handle but a Sith... It scared them and for a good reason. They weren't ready.



Actually the difference in skill between a droid and a Sith should be very clear. People that were training to fight a Sith Lord or a Jedi Master would have trained a lot harder and better in many ways then somebody that expects to fight droids. Now both can be challenging but in different ways, and somebody that has been fighting lightsaber wielders is going to be far more powerful then somebody who is not.

A Jedi that only takes out a few normal people skilled perhaps but still normal is not going to be a match against an ancient Jedi or Sith that has practiced his entire live to fight against the Jedi or the Sith and to stop them once and for all. Honestly who is going to be more effective in combat?

Sorgo
Originally posted by Tangible God
(sigh) There's too many variables and plot-gaps to work with too keep this up.

"C'mon, Tangible. You can do better than that." And so can you, answer my question.

So the Sith were better? So what? Just cause Sidious was better than them doesn't mean they suck.

They weren't able to defend themselves. They SUCK.

His DAD killed all those Jedi without his suit. Luke beat his (sighs again) emotionally crippled, yielding dad, WITH the suit. You must know the statistics about suit-Vader and non-suit-Vader. And movie only, we're not talking about what happened off screen and in between movies.

Then why is there a TV show coming out about Vader's rampage of killing the leftover Jedi IN HIS SUIT? You can answer *THAT* question.

I never reveal my personal information to total strangers, including my age.
Is this an excuse to cover the fact that you're seventeen or younger? Don't be ashamed of your age.

And being a film and not real life, we can only judge by what we see. Vader wasn't putting up much of a fight in ROTJ in comparison to his fight in ESB, and Luke was swinging like a madman when he took him down, with Darth doing little more than blocking. You know this, you must.

Vader wasn't better. There were several moments in which Vader was trying to kill his son in ROTJ. He failed, and to a Jedi Knight with three years experience.


Frankly I believe that the PT Jedi weren't much compared to Jedi of the past. But to call them pathetic, weak fools is just b*tchiness.

B*tchiness? Right.... I spot irrelevancy.

Nai Fohl
Originally posted by Fishy
Of course people are going to be scared of Jedi, they are still Jedi that still makes them damn powerful now doesn't it?

May I remind you that Andur Sunrider was killed by a small group of bandits where 14 (!) bandits didn't even try to use their weapons being confronted with Mace Windu ? Obviously the PT time era Jedi have developed such a legendary status that nearly nobody even tries to challenge them. That is especially shown in TPM:

- the Neimodians totaly freak out being confronted with 2 (!) Jedi despite the fact they have an entire army of battledroids on their ship to deal with them
- Anakin thinks that nobody can kill a Jedi



You are right. Jedi aren't supposed to work in great groups. What made them do it at all ? They believe in their individual skills and in "fair play". You can see that very good when Mace ALONE went to the balcony having Jango Fett and Dooku standing there. Would he have done that with 5, 10 or 20 people this battle (and the Clone Wars) wouldn't have happened because they would have captured all (or nearly all) CIS leaders at once.



We did SEE who did fight better and that were the PT Jedi. As I said: During the battle of Deneba the ancient Jedi (thousands of them) were confronted with Krath War Droids. Those War Droids (somebody might correct me if I am wrong on that point) had 4 arms using something like a bow shooting blaster bolts with two of them (range attacks) and melee weapons with the other two hands. Now they did manage to kill most of the Jedi present (including powerful ones like Arca Jeth) even shooting with that bows from a long distance.

The Jedi on Geonosis were confronted with droids armed with repeating rifles (normal battle droids), other fast firering droids (Super battle droids), droids that fire 4 bolts at once and have shield generators (Destroyer droids) and Geonosian people armed with heavy weapons horribly outnumbering them - and they still did take a huge number of enemies with them despite the fact that most of them were using the worst lightsaber style you can train and some of them were Padawans (!).



Talking about inventions and improvements most things were invented during actual time of war and NOT past it. Have a look at the Nazis in Germany. They did invent the first rockets (V-rocket series) and the first Jet fighters. America developed nuclear bombs. They were improved later on, right. But think about it that way: If some things were invented by the ancient Jedi (the lightsaber forms except Vaapad seem to be around 4,000 years before the PT) and have gone through 4,000 years of refinement - don't you think the PT Jedi practicing them would be better than the ancient ones ?



The problem I personally have with that logic is that people aren't trained to face special threads - they are trained to fight. It doesn't matter if there were Sith or not. The PT Jedi had multiple other threats to deal with: the Mandalorians that were left, headhunters, assassins, terroristical organisations (Red Iaro), criminal organisations (Black Sun, the Hutts). In Shadowhunter Maul is thinking about Black Sun members being a challenge for him and he's trained to kill Jedi. So the PT Jedi had tons of dangerous opponents to deal with not only "droids".

Lana
Exactly. You guys seem to be forgetting the fact that Lucas himself said that the PT was supposed to be Jedi in their golden age -- ie, at their best.



Except....that's not what the TV show is going to be about; it's been said that it's going to concentrate on bounty hunters. Lucas said a while ago that there aren't going to be pre-existing characters from the movies in the TV show. If this were new news it'd be one thing, but this is old news.

Deus Ex
So the PT jedi are the golden age. Does this make any group of jedi that appears better (Such as perhaps, the NJo crew could end up being) blatantly contradicting GL's word?

Nai Fohl
Originally posted by Deus Ex
So the PT jedi are the golden age. Does this make any group of jedi that appears better (Such as perhaps, the NJo crew could end up being) blatantly contradicting GL's word?

Do you consider the NJO members to be "Jedi" ?
They are stronger than the PT ones but not in gerneral more because of the fact that they have 4 people with Skywalker blood with enormous potentials (Hell...3 year old Anakin nearly blasted a Dark Jedi away with a burst of his raw power), most of the other powerful ones had some trips to the Dark Sides and returned and they didn't limit themselves much with philosophy (Unifying Force theory).

Imagine Yoda using powers that can be seen as pretty much "dark side" abilities (instakill abilities...wtf ?). What would the PT have looked like if all Jedi had used that stuff ? Maul attacking Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon. Obi-Wan force chokes him and then Qui-Gon toasts him with Force Lightning ?

Deus Ex
That is a good point. The NJO crew barely qualifies to the title jedi.

Tangible God
Except Luke, he's God after all.

Sorgo
Originally posted by Lana
Exactly. You guys seem to be forgetting the fact that Lucas himself said that the PT was supposed to be Jedi in their golden age -- ie, at their best.



Except....that's not what the TV show is going to be about; it's been said that it's going to concentrate on bounty hunters. Lucas said a while ago that there aren't going to be pre-existing characters from the movies in the TV show. If this were new news it'd be one thing, but this is old news.


Sorry if i didn't know much about it. I don't really revolve around it, but thanks for the update on that.


No one knows what the show will be about until it comes out. I remember that's what happened with TPM.

Sorgo
Hmm, let's see....


Some Jedi survived, Vader survived, and the TV show is going to consist of Bounty Hunters running around while Vader takes a shit and the Jedi kill themselves?


Nah.

Veneficus
...this is pathetic...PT Jedi while numbering among some skilled fighters overall they sucked. Lucas Says that the PT era was the Golden Age of the Jedi? Well he sure did one crap ass job of showing this. Ancient Jedi held knowledge and abilties that the PT Jedi did not. Plus the Sith were a constant threat during this time. Conflict strengths isolations weakens this is true fact even if it came from game character.
The PT Jedi were unpreapred for the harsh realities of war. The Ancient Jedi were for all intents and purposes warriors and solders who were living during a time where peace was short-lived.

Tangible God
Originally posted by Veneficus
...this is pathetic...PT Jedi while numbering among some skilled fighters overall they sucked. Lucas Says that the PT era was the Golden Age of the Jedi? Well he sure did one crap ass job of showing this. Ancient Jedi held knowledge and abilties that the PT Jedi did not. Plus the Sith were a constant threat during this time. Conflict strengths isolations weakens this is true fact even if it came from game character.
The PT Jedi were unpreapred for the harsh realities of war. The Ancient Jedi were for all intents and purposes warriors and solders who were living during a time where peace was short-lived. Don't forget that alot of pre-movie EU, concerning the Jedi's doings were made after TPM. And there's not alot you can show in a movie that wouldn't make them look like gods. Gods who were killed by one of their own, and that one is what we see as the guy who is FAR FROM a god in the OT.

Lana
Originally posted by Sorgo
Sorry if i didn't know much about it. I don't really revolve around it, but thanks for the update on that.


No one knows what the show will be about until it comes out. I remember that's what happened with TPM.

Except it's been said what it's going to be about.

http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/651/651192p1.html
http://www.comingsoon.net/news/topnews.php?id=11248



Straight from Lucas himself.

Captain REX
So Imperial bounty hunters, hunting Jedi most likely, and Rebels, and the Clone Wars.

Lana
Probably.

*pokes*

Why aren't you on MSN stick out tongue

Captain REX
Because I'm about to go to bed. stick out tongue

Now that I think about it, bounty hunters working for the Empire just SCREAMS Boba Fett.

Lana
Damn. I'm bored.

You'd think, but Lucas has said there won't be any major characters....so it's doubtful erm

Besides, Boba's not THAT interesting.

Captain REX
No, not really.

And knowing Lucas, I don't doubt seeing Boba.

Tru_Slice
I would certantly like to see all the old-school imperial ships that the guide had, in the series. Like the dreadnoughts, carrack cruisers, cloakshape fighters, (*turns the page again*) more Y-wings, and OOOO! Z-95's!

Sorgo
Originally posted by Lana
Except it's been said what it's going to be about.

http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/651/651192p1.html
http://www.comingsoon.net/news/topnews.php?id=11248



Straight from Lucas himself.


That's great, but i don't care about the show. This prequel shit has had it's chance, but they flipped their shit.

Tru_Slice
I hope Lucas doesn't bring in an over-abundance of nameless Jedi into the show. Every other week could have another jedi get slaughtered by the Emorer's hands, and Vader.

That would be pretty crappy.

I think the show would be good if it focused around Corellia, and how the smugglers developed. And Vader.

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