Iceman vs. Hulk

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C1nd3r
Who wins?

chris_63256
Are you joking??

chris_63256
No disrespect guy but have you read a comic before?

demigawd
Iceman COULD win. The thing is, characters, when they fight alone, tend to be far more self-reliant and therefore resourceful than they would otherwise. Kind of like the time Iceman fought Magneto by himself and lasted MUCH longer against him than he ever did fighting alongside the X-men. So Iceman not being able to beat the Hulk along with several other X-men doesn't necessarily mean he couldn't do it fighting on his own - he knows that nobody's got his back, so he's going to do things he might not otherwise do with the whole team - like freeze Hulk from the inside out. There isn't a lot that Hulk can do to Iceman - he can exist as water vapour.

I give this one to Iceman when he's fighting to his potential (which is what you're supposed to do on this board).

C1nd3r
Obviously thats what i mean, iceman cant die nowadays...

ragesRemorse
Originally posted by demigawd
There isn't a lot that Hulk can do to Iceman -

confused ummmm...A 100 ton fist dropped on the skull would get the job done.

Your statement would be true if you reverse the names. Dude, Ice man would be laid out with one punch from the Hulk. Seriously, how is Ice going to stop the Hulk?

demigawd
You missed the part of my post where I said that Iceman can exist as water vapour. Being smashed is hardly going to get the job done.

As for what Iceman is going to do to the Hulk...freezing the blood in his veins would be a good start. We can get more vicious from there...

ragesRemorse
How do you purpose Iceman getting close enough to accomplish a feat like that?

If hulk is impervious to certain subzero tempetures, the only thing iceman can do is slow him down.

Alpha Centauri
Hahahahaha.

Actually hilarious. "Ice-Man will win when he's fighting at potential".

Hulk's full potential (he doesn't have one) would take out the X-Men team in minutes.

-AC

Scoobless
isn't Hulks body totally charged with radiation?....... freezing wont work against him as this radiation would defrost him in an instant.......... in theory

ZephroCarnelian
Good reply Scoobs! I rekcon Hulk probably does have a much higher ambvient temp than normal humans.

And you're right AC - Hulk at 'max' would DECIMATE the X-Men. All Iceman could do is buy himself time...

kgkg
Hulk wins , why ask Jugs , and Gladiator

BENITO
HULK no contest.

demigawd
Silly - Hulk is just a brick - he can't do anything to Iceman because Iceman can't be physically destroyed. And Hulk's resistence to low temperatures doesn't mean anything - Iceman isn't making it COLD around Hulk, he's not hitting Hulk with ice, he's freezing Hulk's blood. No matter how strong you are, ain't no getting around that. And radiation isn't hot....Hulk isn't a microwave oven, lol. It's just radiation - it doesn't melt ice.

Hulk, fighting at "max" wouldn't kill all the X-men in minutes. He wouldn't kill them at all. You keep forgetting that Hulk is just a brick - he just punches stuff. That's hardly versatile enough to take out all of the X-men, no matter how hard his "max" punches.

Sorry, Iceman still takes this.

Scoobless
radiation absolutley can melt ice....... what do you think people are talking about when they say the ice caps are melting? every ounce of heat that comes from the sun is radiation......... didn't you see the issue of hulk, just after the Onslaught story, where his body emits so much radiation that no one, even in protective gear, can get within 50 feet of him..... then one guy takes off his helmet and gets melted from around that distance

Alpha Centauri
If I didn't know better, I'd say that last sentence was supposed to be a fact.

Luckily I do. So I can say "Sorry, he doesn't. Hulk does."

Starting off your post saying "Silly" to us and then going on to say "Hulk just punches stuff" is a contradiction, in a way. Ice-Man literally just freezes stuff, my freezer does too. Ice-Man just does it faster. Hulk "just" punches with unparelleled force and power. It's a punch, hardly "just" a punch.

The very fact that Ice-Man now "can't be physically destroyed" says it all.

So, sorry, Hulk still takes this.

-AC

chris_63256
no discussion here what so ever Hulk in 20 seconds... Like I said throw in the towel this was a horrible vs...

black wolverine
hulk would crush that icecicle he cant do anything to hurt him unless he makes a big ice sord or something sharp and stab him with it but even then hulk would still probley win

demigawd
ok, let me clarify...GAMMA radiation doesn't melt ice. Radiation is a pretty vague term, like "energy". There are all different kinds of radiation, all along the EM spectrum, but only some of it generates heat. Gamma isn't one of them.

Hulk, after the Onslaught storyline was radiation extradimensional energies from counter-Earth. That's not in play here.

Iceman doesn't just freeze stuff - he controls molecular speeds. He's able to slow the spinning of molecules, which causes a freezing effect. Hulk has no defense against that whatsoever becauuuuuuse....he just punches stuff! He can punch stuff hard enough to destroy mountains, but he just punches stuff. He has no defense against his molecules being essentially stopped (frozen).

Iceman, on the other hand, can just stand there and say, "give me your best shot". Hulk does so, and Iceman shatters into a million pieces. A billion pieces. A trillion pieces. But he's still fine, because that doesn't kill him or even knock him out.

So you see...Hulk just punches stuff, and just punching stuff ain't gonna do the trick against Iceman.

Iceman freezes things at a molecular level, and that does just the trick against Hulk.

So sorry again, Iceman still takes this.

Scoobless
Originally posted by demigawd
ok, let me clarify...GAMMA radiation doesn't melt ice. Radiation is a pretty vague term, like "energy". There are all different kinds of radiation, all along the EM spectrum, but only some of it generates heat. Gamma isn't one of them

Gamma radiation doesn't create big green super-monsters either..... but in comics it does, so in the world of marvel you can't say for definite that hulks body wont be "unfreezable"

demigawd
Right, but you're trying to say that Gamma melts stuff....it doesn't. It doesn't do it in real life, and there's been nothing to show that it does it in comics. It mutates stuff into big green monsters, yes. It kills the unlucky ones the same way in does in the regular world, yes. But still no evidence of melting anything.

Scoobless
i was just going by the time after Onslaught........ the military scienist guys were all saying he was leaking enormous amounts of radiation.... if not Gamma then something else...... and it melted a lead cage that was placed over him to protect the city

demigawd
Right, that was the extra-dimensional energy he absorbed after Onslaught. He was leaking fallout power from Counter-Earth (the fallout radiation was hot), and it was killing him. When the heroes were restored, Hulk was returned to normal. So that's a non-issue now.

LordFear
May I say that I don't think that saying gamma radiation can be "frozen" is legitimate statement. Now unless you can prove that Iceman can control the temperature down to absolute zero (which is the coldest temperature that can be achieved by man) then we can't argue that.
Hiroshima and Churnobul were events involving radiation and both generated incredible amount of "heat" in the process. I don't see how a being concieved from a gamma radiation explosion with tremendous regenerative capabilites, will succomb to someone like Iceman. No way!!

demigawd
Iceman can control the temperature down to absolute zero. He's actually not only frozen but STOPPED molecular spin altogether (which is, by definition, absolute zero). He did that against Legion and several Prime Sentinels during the OZT storyline.

You're confusing radiation with an atomic bomb. It wasn't actually the radiation itself that caused the heat, it was the fission. When an atom splits, it gives off heat. When a U235 atom splits (from an atomic bomb), it gives off heat and Gamma radiation. They're two different things, however. The heat is what killed everybody in the first minute. The gamma radiation is what killed everybody 20 years later...

So unless you're willing to say that Hulk is a walking fission reactor (he's not), then he doesn't have any unusual resistence to his molecules suddenly stopping.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by demigawd
ok, let me clarify...GAMMA radiation doesn't melt ice. Radiation is a pretty vague term, like "energy". There are all different kinds of radiation, all along the EM spectrum, but only some of it generates heat. Gamma isn't one of them.

Hulk, after the Onslaught storyline was radiation extradimensional energies from counter-Earth. That's not in play here.

Iceman doesn't just freeze stuff - he controls molecular speeds. He's able to slow the spinning of molecules, which causes a freezing effect. Hulk has no defense against that whatsoever becauuuuuuse....he just punches stuff! He can punch stuff hard enough to destroy mountains, but he just punches stuff. He has no defense against his molecules being essentially stopped (frozen).

Iceman, on the other hand, can just stand there and say, "give me your best shot". Hulk does so, and Iceman shatters into a million pieces. A billion pieces. A trillion pieces. But he's still fine, because that doesn't kill him or even knock him out.

So you see...Hulk just punches stuff, and just punching stuff ain't gonna do the trick against Iceman.

Iceman freezes things at a molecular level, and that does just the trick against Hulk.

So sorry again, Iceman still takes this.

Not really. Can Ice-Man freeze Hulk if he's in a million pieces? No he cannot.

All you just did was tell me Ice-Man's "powers". I'm fully aware of them. You're contradicting yourself.

If it was that easy for Ice-Man to do, he'd be doing it all the time and therefore could theoretically beat anyone, but he cannot. Seeing as you like going by realism in comics when it suits you, I'm gonna do the same. X-Men don't kill so therefore Ice-Man isn't gonna win by freezing molecules. Secondly, what's he gonna do if Hulk keeps smashing him into trillions of pieces? Nothing. If we're going by who can keep coming back, then so can Hulk due to his healing factor.

-AC

demigawd
Actually Iceman CAN freeze Hulk if he's in a million pieces - it has no effect on his ability to use his power. Iceman has spread himself out over an entire room before and retained his consciousness and ability to use his powers offensively. He's also done it as a puddle and as water vapour.

How am I contradicting myself by telling you Iceman's powers? You said he freezes stuff, I said, "more specifically.....". That's clarification, not contradiction.

Iceman could easily do that to lots of enemies and beat just about anyone. He doesn't largely because it takes away from the tension of the fight. Same reason why telekinetics don't stop people's hearts, or telepaths don't switch people's minds off, or Thor doesn't godblast everybody, or Strange doesn't banish everybody to other dimensions.

Iceman could freeze the molecules in specifically areas of Hulk's body, causing him great pain, causing him loss of control over motor functions (nervous system freezing) or causing him to pass out entirely (slowing molecules around the brain area). It doesn't have to be lethal. Iceman wins by Hulk losing consciousness.

Draco69
Demigawd's arguments make more sense. I vote for Iceman. Although I kinda unsure.

kgkg
Demigawd master of atom and moecular theories with other scientific theories such as wormholes etc.

But how much can it be appied in this battle.

this is COmic after all

demigawd
I imagine you can apply as much of it as you want. To me, there's no point in ignoring real world science just to make someone like Hulk beat someone like Iceman. I don't care a lick about "Hulk being Hulk" or "Iceman just being Iceman" or any of that stuff. Iceman's powers are such that no physical power, no matter how great, can defeat him. Physical power is all Hulk has. You do the math...

SarKastic_OJ
The only thing Iceman could do is possibly "slow down" the hulk, bar none...

Freeze his blood?? Did you ever see Iceman Freeze Magneto's, Juggs, Apocs, and various other X-men villains blood to obtain an instant victory??

The hulk is power incarnate, freezing him would hardly be enough to stop the hulk...It takes sheer brute force or an outer worldy, cosmic counter-power to take out the hulk..Not some freeze capabilities..thats just being too simple...

The hulk has taken on the Fantastic four and the Avengers all by himself and most of the time they only managed to make him horny...

The hulk is a marvel top-tier and having someone the calibur of one Iceman defeat him with the greatest of ease is just marvel slapping themselves in the face..The hulk would eventually land "one blow" upon Iceman sending him into the bitter realms of paralyzation...

demigawd
Iceman hasn't fought Magneto, Apoc, etc. since his powerup. But he's done internal freezing to plenty of other villains. It's most certainly within his power to do it to Hulk too. I know that Hulk is "supposed" to be this and "supposed" to be that, but you need more than, "Hulk is top tier!" to make him beat Iceman. One blow won't do anything to Iceman but shatter him, which has absolutely no effect on him. A hundred blows would turn Iceman into a bunch of ice chips...still alive, still in control of molecular speed, still able to reform anytime he wants.

No contest - you can beat Iceman, but you can't use physical attacks to do it. Physical attacks is all Hulk has. Sad to hear because he's a "marvel top-tier", but quite true.

kgkg
Originally posted by demigawd
Iceman hasn't fought Magneto, Apoc, etc. since his powerup. But he's done internal freezing to plenty of other villains. It's most certainly within his power to do it to Hulk too. I know that Hulk is "supposed" to be this and "supposed" to be that, but you need more than, "Hulk is top tier!" to make him beat Iceman. One blow won't do anything to Iceman but shatter him, which has absolutely no effect on him. A hundred blows would turn Iceman into a bunch of ice chips...still alive, still in control of molecular speed, still able to reform anytime he wants.

No contest - you can beat Iceman, but you can't use physical attacks to do it. Physical attacks is all Hulk has. Sad to hear because he's a "marvel top-tier", but quite true.

i see what your trying to say demi.

But to honest i have never seen Ice man take out anyone big.

if he can kill anyone like that Then why the hell is he in a group , if he can just freeze people like that.

so are you saying he can beat , even Galactus , Thanos , Jugs because he can freeze thire molecules??? ( thire are limits)
in theory what's preventing that

i don't think it will work on these char.

Can you tell me on who ice man use this attack.???

because if this is so i see him beating magneto , and almost anyone on earth.

From what i heard , Hulk radiated gammas fights back to any attack. (virus etc) so i don't think freezing will work.

and again can you give me a list to who ice man has frozen. (big villian)

demigawd
Originally posted by kgkg
if he can kill anyone like that Then why the hell is he in a group , if he can just freeze people like that.


Because he's an X-man. See, what people on the board don't understand is that people are in groups because they CHOOSE to be, not because they NEED to be. The X-men are his family, regardless of how powerful he becomes.



Well, I imagine it wouldn't work in situations where a person's consciousness is separate from their physical body, it wouldn't work with skilled energy and matter manipulators (Galactus and Thanos), and psionics could shut him down before he took action. It also wouldn't work on people like Apoc because he has total molecular control over his own body that could override it. My GUESS is that it may not work where magic is involved, either. That means Juggernaut, who is mystically protected.

None of that, of course, applies to Hulk.



The biggest name he's done that to is Legion, who is at Nate Grey level. He wasn't trying to kill him, but completely froze every molecule in his body. Legion was able to recover only because his mind also exists on the Astral Plane, so he telepathically attacked Iceman and undid the freezing.

Again, that doesn't apply to Hulk. There's a world of difference between being able to fight back a virus and being able to control the molecules in your body. Hulk ain't Apocalypse.

DarkDethbringer
by the way might I say that Hulk could do it easy like if Icy tried to take off in an Ice slide hulk could smash the slide at ground level causing Icy to fall dont get me wrong IceMan is boss but he couldnt beat Hulk unless he was endused by Gamma radiation...

demigawd
It's like people don't pay attention to the discussion going on in the thread. I can say, "Iceman can exist as a puddle or a million shattered pieces of ice and still use his powers", then a few posts later someone's like, "Hulk can smash Iceman with a punch and that's the end of Iceman!"

illadelph12
Weren't Hulk and Thor Avengers? Doesn't Gladiator lead a team? What does being on a team prove?

illadelph12
People read what they want to 'hear', demigawd. That's all.

Cosmic Cube
Gamma radiation carries intense heat. Gamma rays are the single most energetic wavelength of electromagnetic radiation in the universe. Gamma rays are extremely hot, and would certainly melt ice, or boil water. By the way, absolute zero is -273 degrees Celsius. Hulk's body is a high amplitude/yield gamma ray generator. He could generate more than enough energy to thaw any effects Iceman could have on him. Then, he'd knock Iceman out pretty easily.

The Flash
demigawd has persuaded me to choose Iceman.

RogueGambitdare
eek!
Are you out of your mind Clnd3r? Iceman would get beat to a plup. No matter what trick he trys.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by The Flash
demigawd has persuaded me to choose Iceman.

Do you ever actually contribute to a thread, or do you just observe and make senseless one-liners?

RogueGambitdare
Man that is not cool. You are so not nice. I don't make senseless points either. Man you have got me so wrong. no You don't know me.

The Flash
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Do you ever actually contribute to a thread, or do you just observe and make senseless one-liners? "That's what I do. Don't judge me."

demigawd
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Gamma radiation carries intense heat. Gamma rays are the single most energetic wavelength of electromagnetic radiation in the universe. Gamma rays are extremely hot, and would certainly melt ice, or boil water. By the way, absolute zero is -273 degrees Celsius. Hulk's body is a high amplitude/yield gamma ray generator. He could generate more than enough energy to thaw any effects Iceman could have on him. Then, he'd knock Iceman out pretty easily.

Untrue. Gamma rays carry very little heat. In fact, they carry so little heat that meat irradiation is performed using gamma radiation, specifically because it won't threaten to brown the meat unlike, say, microwaves.

A lethal dose of radiation generates less heat than what you'd get from drinking a cup of coffee.

You have to remember - when dealing with radiation, it's not just how much energy it generates. Yes, gamma yields the highest amount of energy, BUT it has no mass and no charge - that's why it generates almost no heat.

So Hulk would still be unable to thaw anything - he's still just as vulnerable as anybody else.

And he still wouldn't be able to knock Iceman out, lol.

jrodslam
In Uncanny X-Men #331, Iceman froze the blood flow the Emma Frost's brain. He didnt even touch her. He had his back turned towards her, and had her on her hands and knees. Mind you that shes a telepath, and Iceman cuold have killed her if he wanted to. Ive seen Hulk get knocked out many times thus reverting him back to Banner. Head on collision with Namor, finger beam from Havok. Thats all Iceman would really have to do. Keep in mind that he doesnt have to touch Hulk to do it either. Iceman has always been an under-achiever, but he has the most potential out of any X-Man. And on another note, he's actually able to generate temps below zero. My vote goes to Iceman. I know that Iceman isnt the most popular character, but people should read up on him before jumping to conclusions and saying that Hulk would smash him. Just the facts folks. Im sure it would work on Magneto, but not so sure about Juggernaut.

elverdugo
men, you guys hulk win you guys why??? because hulk is more strong then ice men ice men just gone hit with ice hulk can resisted everything you guys do not that if hulk hug ice man or just get him ice man gone die in 30 second.
i think hulk win the fight

The Flash
English please.

demigawd
Ugh. Just....ugh. Sometimes I wonder why I even bother...

RogueGambitdare
You are so dense The Flash, sorry but it's true. no

The Flash
Is that a bad thing?

demigawd
What did he do? I couldn't understand what that guy was saying, either.

demigawd
Originally posted by The Flash
Is that a bad thing?

lol. You're not helping yourself here. smile

RogueGambitdare
Nope not helpin'. The Flash NEVER EVER CALL ME KIDDO!!!!! NEVER. no Bad idea......... Very bad........

RogueGambitdare
And my poll was in the right place The Flash, u are so dense. I was talkin' 'bout the COMICS.

The Flash
Oops?

BTW, Rogue, don't talk about what happened in other thread(s) in a totally different thread.

RogueGambitdare
Fine. sad

RogueGambitdare
I have one ? for u though, not like it's any of my bussiness but r you a boy or girl?

demigawd
Stop messing up the thread! It was so nice and neat before...

RogueGambitdare
K. Sorry won't do it again. sad But he is dense.

ragesRemorse
Originally posted by demigawd
. Iceman's powers are such that no physical power, no matter how great, can defeat him. Physical power is all Hulk has. You do the math...

I've seen iceman get his ass beat many a time by physical power in the X-men comics. In theory Iceman can do all of this, but why hasnt he done it before. Why hasnt he applied this to say...Juggernaut?

fr0z3n
I guess sometimes people dont really read the thread completely before posting. I have to hand it to demigawd for providing valid reasons why Iceman would win. Cheers!

fr0z3n
err... make that 'could win' . Because we still are under the assumption that Iceman is fighting at his peak potential AND is not holding back (which he can't afford to in a fight with the strongest being in the MU)

Blair Wind
umm question why would Iceman have to be hit in the first place? I mean think about it you have a HUGE green giant trying to punch your face in and you try to dodge it right? well being iceman he wouldnt really have to dodge it, he could just do that moisture inversion thing of his, become water vapor and effectively invisible. Now being invisible and since the Hulk can do him no actual damage since he is water vapor, all Iceman has to do is wait him out while the hulk gets angry about his opponent not being, there throws a hissy fit and then till he becomes banner. See? that way we wont have people saying that gamma radiation can melt the ice, and iceman wont have to actually touch him.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by ragesRemorse
I've seen iceman get his ass beat many a time by physical power in the X-men comics. In theory Iceman can do all of this, but why hasnt he done it before. Why hasnt he applied this to say...Juggernaut?

Because he's not The Hulk, Rage.

-AC

Swanky-Tuna
Originally posted by ragesRemorse
I've seen iceman get his ass beat many a time by physical power in the X-men comics. In theory Iceman can do all of this, but why hasnt he done it before. Why hasnt he applied this to say...Juggernaut? Because you'd be some kind of jerkface to try out your flash freezing lethal HIIIIII-YAH! instant freeze on your own team members just to see how he'd take it.

demigawd
Originally posted by ragesRemorse
I've seen iceman get his ass beat many a time by physical power in the X-men comics. In theory Iceman can do all of this, but why hasnt he done it before. Why hasnt he applied this to say...Juggernaut?

I answered that in an earlier post.

jrodslam
Like i said before, because Iceman is not he most popular character out there, people will will say that he'd get creamed withough even knowing about the character. Realize that at freezing of the blood isnt even him at full potential. It takes no effort from him to do so. Emma Frost couldnt even see it coming because he had his back turned towards her, and wasnt even touching her. And shes a telepath. Hed have no problem doing the same to Hulk thus reverting him back to Banner. Iceman wins with little effort.

LordFear
I think we are forgetting what makes Hulk such a formidable threat. Forget his mammouth strength, but purely his healing abilities alone makes him rival Thanos and such in a sense. Iceman freezing his blood, don't buy it because his healing factor would kick in too quickly. It's an unlikely scenario because his healing will not allow that. Simple. So demigawd's theory might have worked with another opponent but not Hulk.

Draco69
I have no real opinion of this fight because I consider it too be rather close but how the heck do you "heal" frozen blood?

jrodslam
When youre affecting someones conciousness i.e the brain, its very easy to know the Hulk out. His healing factor has nothing to do with that. There is no physical damage being done to the body. When Havok made a beam so fine that it penetrated Hulk's skin, it knocked him out and turned him back to Bruce Banner. Hulks healing factor wasnt that quick obviously. Iceman slowing the blood flow to Hulks brain wouldnt be stopped by Hulks healing factor. Healing factor has nothing to do with it. Its purely moisture. Just like Magneto would be able to do the same thing by manipulating the iron in his Blood. Sorry to say LordFear, but your point isnt valid. Theres nothing to heal. Maybe if it was a loss of blood, healing factor would come into play, but slowing the flow of the bloodto the brain connot be stopped. Thus Hulk looses still.

LordFear
Your healing factor goes with your immune system.
So any anomoly in your body, your immune kicks in to regulate it back to a normal state. This process is called homeostatis. Look it up!!!!
Just like when u get a fever, you begin to perspire and burn up and get chills. Do you think that your body just stays there and do nothing??
If you are in a frozen basin of water, your body increases it's temperature in order to compensate. You think healing only refers to physical damage? In the Legacy issues of XMEN, how do you think Logan came up with the cure, his body produced antigens and anitbodies to fight off the virus. That's due to his HEALING nothing else!!!

jrodslam
You may be right in certain cases, but when you get a fever your blood doesnt stop flowing in your veins. When you get sick does your blood stop flowing? I think not. The legacy virus didnt stop Mutants blood from going to thier brains. Iceman can literally stop you blood from reaching your brain, thus knocking you out. Hulks healing factor wouldnt be able to stop that. He wouldnt even know what hit him. Emma Frost who is a powerful telepath didnt even see it coming. It was instant.

demigawd
Homeostasis refers to the body's immune system regulating to compensate for environmental changes. But it's limited to macrochanges, not microchanges. Essentially, damage done at the molecular level are exempt from homeostasis. That's why the body doesn't heal well from radiation poisoning - it changes you at a molecular level. Iceman's ability to stop molecular spin is just what it implies...a molecular change. So a healing factor would have no effect on it.

Good try, though.

LordFear
No demigawd, I am referring to his circulation. If it is gonna be crystalized, then immediately his healing would kick in preventing him from having his blood frozen over. Whether it's by raising his body temp or whatever. His healing can help him I am sure of that!!!!!
Answer this question then:
When Hulk wanders snowy mountains, hilltops and various arctic weather conditions areas, why doesn't he freeze over?
WHat prevents his body from getting hypothermia like everybody else, can you answer that?

jrodslam
Uhh what exactly are you saying? If Iceman freezes Hulks blood flow, Hulk's "healing factor" would make it flow anyway? Doubt it. Do you have anythig to back this up? When havok knocked him out, why wasnt he able to heal from that? Once Hulk's brain is tampered with whether it be lack of oxygen(due to air or blood flow), mind controll, head-on collision, Hulk is at a disadvantage. Are you inplying that Magneto wouldnt be able to do the same thing?

demigawd
Snowy mountains, arctic conditions, etc. are all environmental in nature. That's what homeostasis is meant to combat, so it makes sense that it would adjust to that. Snowy mountains, arctic conditions, etc. don't change you at a molecular level. They don't STOP your molecules from spinning. They gradually slow your molecules down, yes, and your body can compensate for that. Iceman affects you at a molecular level - we're not talking about coating Hulk's blood with a fine sheet of snow. He STOPS its molecular spin, instantly removing all movement (heat) from it. It's something an immune system is unable to counter, because Iceman isn't doing it environmentally...he's directly affecting the molecule.

LordFear
I can't argue further because I would need to know the physiology of the Hulk and whether or not he can or is immune to attacks on a molecular level. My stand and opinion remains that IceMan cannot take him down even if he controls things molecularly. I can tell you not to discount the Hulk so easily because a man that can withstand an immense barrages of physical, psychic damage, extreme cold I don't see affecting him much. I just can't. This being was birthed from radiation, I can't credit this win to IC. sorry!!!

demigawd
That's fine, and I respect your opinion. Hulk has a place in the pantheon, so it's difficult to believe that someone who is part of a team could take him out, despite all the evidence. Sometimes when faith is all you have to go on...it'll do.

It does make me wonder about what you'd think of Hulk vs. people like Sandman, Hydroman and Shadow King, who likewise don't have bodies to physically mess with.

jrodslam
I hear what youre saying LordFear, and i respect your opinion as well. I dont respect opinions of thos who just come one and say Iceman would get creamed. Thanks demigawd for backing me with this. I have to admit your points were more clear and precise than mine. Ahh well. Point proven. I wish I had a scanner so i could show Uncany X-Men #331.

LordFear
Well it's interesting that you mentioned those two specifically because I think if you were to mix both of them together they would cancel themselves out.
Aside from that Sandman can be destroyed simply by either extreme heat or perhaps a solution that can absorb grains like some kinda glue(I am kinda reaching here, I know).
Hydro the same. Mix him with cement base solution.
Shadow is much more difficult

jrodslam
Lol. For the first time today i agree with you. If Sandman were to experience an extreme amout of water, would he then not revert to a mud type substance slowing his movenent or even holding him in place? I dont think youre reaching at all LordFear.

LordFear
Thank you sir!!!!

O.D Geist
As i read all the post i notice that alot of ppl just look at it from what they know bout hulk or what they have heard about hulk. You guyz shouldn't do that specially when it is a vs topic u should know the facts of both sides before u give off hard answer like hulk will smash ice-man into a million peice, when he cant die by a melee attack. The way ice-man is now he is crazy, i seen him regenerate from nothing. He can also change his size and his strenght changes because of that. there is much more he can do u just got to read up on him.

I must give it to demigawd and jrodslam for giving facts on how and
why ice-man would win. Oh and 1 thing i do really have to agree with jrodslam is that ice-man isnt very popular so since he is the under dog ppl quickly vote him to loss.

my vote goes to ice-man

LordFear
It's people's opinion. Furthermore if we are gonna pitt Hulk against a version of Iceman then the same must be done about Hulk.
WHy not WarHulk or Maestro or Savage Hulk versus our new and improved IceMan?
No it's not because he is an underdog but because personally my knowldege on Hulk's true and full physiology is unknown therefore I don't want to further argue it.
The thread never stipulated which version of Iceman therefore, the same for Hulk.

ragesRemorse
Originally posted by LordFear
It's people's opinion. Furthermore if we are gonna pitt Hulk against a version of Iceman then the same must be done about Hulk.
WHy not WarHulk or Maestro or Savage Hulk versus our new and improved IceMan?
No it's not because he is an underdog but because personally my knowldege on Hulk's true and full physiology is unknown therefore I don't want to further argue it.
The thread never stipulated which version of Iceman therefore, the same for Hulk.

ditto, never seen iceman take down an opponent anywhere near Hulk

Draco69
Iceman isn't "new and improved". He just learned to control his powers better. His recent development of his powers just sprung up recently. It's difficult to say what he can and cannot do.

jrodslam
Originally posted by ragesRemorse
ditto, never seen iceman take down an opponent anywhere near Hulk

Im assuming you mean strength wise. But im sure we all know that is not about strength when it comes down to battles. Knocking someone out doesnt alwyas have to be by force. Lets just be clear people.

LordFear
In my book that's new and improved.
"He now realizes his true potential" he is newly improved because he can do things he couldn't prior. Bottom line. So it's a new version of him.
It's like a car let's say Mustang.
The old and new version came out. Same car but different or improved version. Well same difference here and if that's the case then let's do the same for Hulk. Since all or pretty much all Xmen have or is discovering a "second mutation" well let the writers find a second evolution of the Hulk.

jrodslam
I wouldnt call it new and improved. Its just a feat and skills that Iceman have. Thats something Iceman can do. No one enhanced his powers. From the time X-Men started, Iceman knew and was told that was wasnt preforming to his full potntial. Freezing the bloodflow is just a feat. Hes not new and improved. Iceman hasnt reached his limits yet just like Hulk hasnt reached his limits.

LordFear
Hulk hasn't reached his limits?
Please elaborate

jrodslam
Im saying that we have not seen Hulk or Icemans limits yet. As Marvel puts it, Hulk has no limits(strength that is). Iceman hasnt reached his limits yet.

Hulk and Iceman both have major feats. But neither of them has reached a limit yet. Hope im more clear now.

LordFear
Crystal.
But based on both of "their respective feats", isn't it safe to presume that in this encounter Hulk has a serious upper hand and would ultimately decimate, pulverize Iceman?
Because my argument has largely been based on that premise.

jrodslam
Originally posted by LordFear
But based on both of "their respective feats", isn't it safe to presume that in this encounter Hulk has a serious upper hand and would ultimately decimate, pulverize Iceman?
Because my argument has largely been based on that premise.

It may seem that way only because not many people know about Icemans abilities. The average person sees the thread and say "Iceman vs Hulk? You gotta be kidding." Not knowing all the facts, and just assume that Hulk would pulvarize him. But just off name alone gives Hulk a bit of an upper hand. Not on skills or powers for that matter. At least youre open to reason. Im talking more about others who know nothing about a character ans says they loose witout reasoning. Hats off to you for that.

LordFear
Thank you sir.
I have debated in school for a long time and know the rules of engagement so to speak/lol

ebonyblade1
I am not arguing for either. You basically took two immortal characters and pit them against one another. They both have gain new abilities that the average reader may not know about. Like the hulk's ability to grow an organ so he can breathe underwater. Or iceman's ability to increase his mass and strength up to unknown levels either argument for the winner is actually pretty valid.

demigawd
Ahh, this is pleasant. A nice, polite debate where everybody can shake hands and compliment each other afterwards. I wish every debate on this board were like this.

jrodslam
I agree. Great debate all.

LordFear
I second the notion/lol

Wonderman
Iceman's tough but I'm willing to bet that Hulk has a strong enough punch to displace molecules. He could break Iceman's body another words.
He'd get hurt by Bobby's power maybe bad cause it'll get real cold but Hulk rages.
There's another thread with War Hulk vs. Iceman. I didn't want to do incarnations of Hulk and i don't really know any except grey hulk which was more of a transformation than one of his incarnations.
Anyway straight up Hulk vs. Iceman.
This pic might be the scene after Hulk wins.

NoFate007
If Drake was able to outmaneuver Hulk and could run away in time and attack from a distance, he could win, but I agree, if Hulk gets a shot, he can knock Iceman out. I'd say 50/50.

wannabe
Crushing Bobby's body will do the Hulk no good, he can survive without one and then use ALL the water from Hulk's body to build himself anew. Since water is an ABSOLUTELY integral and essential part of every cell, there will be no intact cell of Hulk's body left from which he could regenerate...fight's over!!!

StyleTime
How vunerable is Hulk to having the blood flow to his brain stopped?

Metalmanx
Probably pretty vulnerable.

Iceman wins. He can just completely flash freeze Hulk. Fight over, right there.

Protector
Originally posted by StyleTime
How vunerable is Hulk to having the blood flow to his brain stopped?
Think how much brain power does the Hulk really have?
Anyway I say that Hulk will break or melt ice useing his super super strength or addrenaline to melt the ice.
With no ice Iceman is nothing but a pretty pinata to the HULK

Draco69
Iceman is water. Water is everywhere. You need to update your knowledge on Iceman. He's not a poor man's Frosty anymore.

xmarksthespot
Iceman simply has too much versatility and is essentially immortal. "HULK SMASH!" Just isn't going to cut it with someone who doesn't need a body.

Blair Wind
YES!!! ICEMAN WINS AGAIN!!! I like how draco put it: He's not a poor man's Frosty anymore.

Ironmanpower
How much negative derees you need to freeze the Hulk! WTF... No badies can stop him! His rage, when he gonna be frozen, will annul the frozen effect of iceman... The energy he will produce, will annul the ice effect of Iceman. We are Talking about a fight vs. one of the 4 greatests marvel, who can stop a planet falling, and one mutant who use ice to win his fight...

thesilverspider
before making yourself look like an idiot with your idiotic post.read up on current iceman who has become a little to bad ass.this fight is over in 3 pannels tops.if hulk were to tag bobby what good would that do too a guy who doesn't need a body.it is safe to say that iceman cant die due too the nature of his powers.

wannabe
Originally posted by Ironmanpower
How much negative derees you need to freeze the Hulk! WTF... No badies can stop him! His rage, when he gonna be frozen, will annul the frozen effect of iceman... The energy he will produce, will annul the ice effect of Iceman. We are Talking about a fight vs. one of the 4 greatests marvel, who can stop a planet falling, and one mutant who use ice to win his fight... Oh man, when did you last read something about Iceman???
Again:
Crushing Bobby's body will do the Hulk no good, he can survive without one and then use ALL the water from Hulk's body to build himself anew, a feat he has already shown several times. Since water is an ABSOLUTELY integral and essential part of every cell, there will be no intact cell of Hulk's body left from which he could regenerate...fight's over!!!

Swanky-Tuna
But would that kill Hulk? Would his cells be too strong to burst? Will he have enough time to invent a new power that prevents himself from freezing?

Wynndar
I've been seeing a lot of this Iceman propaganda lately. Yes his powers r presently more fundamental than before...essentially he cant be killed by most conventional methods. However, fundamental does not mean more powerful.

Iceman has not used his vague control of water frequently...if at all in X-Men lately.

Hydroman has this power...and has actually demonstrated it, but u wont see me arguing in his favor against Hulk. Fights are more complicated than who is simply more fundamental.

Iceman may be able to control water, but whats to say he can control it to the degree to render it from the Hulk's cells...cells which can survive in the vacuum of space and extremes of temperature (Didnt even flinch from a full blast of flame from fing fang foom).

Iceman may or may not be able to use this power offensively against superhumans and mutants. But this is the Hulk. Iceman has been portrayed as a weak ass in his own comic. He's not even a force to be reckoned on his own team while the Hulk can walk through them.

Most recently in Black Panther, Iceman was beaten with laser beams, gas, and was shown at the end wearing restraints, and he's now in a thread against the Hulk? Someone who has leaped into space and shattered asteroids? repelled the incalculable antimatter attraction, shattered Onslaught's armor, uprooted and moved an island, etc.

Iceman got beat by lasers.

Creshosk
Iceman could chill the air, slowing blood, calming effect. Hibernation.

Hulk reverts to Banner. . . Banner does what Captaion America did. . . spend some time frozen in ice. . .

Incapacitation.

Wynndar
Um...no. Iceman has tried freezing him in the past. And Hulk isnt going to slow down from the cold...he's not Luke Cage, he's the Hulk.

Wonderman
Hulk smash. Basically this fight is like Hulk taking on a living glacier; complete with snow for an avalanche only more so due to Bobby's molec. level control.
Don't let Drake's cute ass fool ya. He's gigantic. I ain't saying this wouldn't be the fight of Hulks life; it would.
I'm still not positive Drake wins.

GODSCRIBE
Originally posted by Wynndar
I've been seeing a lot of this Iceman propaganda lately. Yes his powers r presently more fundamental than before...essentially he cant be killed by most conventional methods. However, fundamental does not mean more powerful.

Iceman has not used his vague control of water frequently...if at all in X-Men lately.

Hydroman has this power...and has actually demonstrated it, but u wont see me arguing in his favor against Hulk. Fights are more complicated than who is simply more fundamental.

Iceman may be able to control water, but whats to say he can control it to the degree to render it from the Hulk's cells...cells which can survive in the vacuum of space and extremes of temperature (Didnt even flinch from a full blast of flame from fing fang foom).

Iceman may or may not be able to use this power offensively against superhumans and mutants. But this is the Hulk. Iceman has been portrayed as a weak ass in his own comic. He's not even a force to be reckoned on his own team while the Hulk can walk through them.

Most recently in Black Panther, Iceman was beaten with laser beams, gas, and was shown at the end wearing restraints, and he's now in a thread against the Hulk? Someone who has leaped into space and shattered asteroids? repelled the incalculable antimatter attraction, shattered Onslaught's armor, uprooted and moved an island, etc.

Iceman got beat by lasers.

well said.

Wynndar
HAHAHAHA....do u read X-Men?

Ironmanpower
Chilled the air won't stop the hulk.

Blair Wind
first off iceman is written as weak because his character as a whole sucks....HOWEVER his powers do not in any way suck as much as they are writting him. In the past he has been able to do a lot of cool feats, like in the X-men Forever story line and in the Finding of Xorn story line with the monks....Emma Frost with his powers was able to do extremely cool things to. The thing is if we take them both at there best (which we are supposed to on this forum, arnt we?) then the Hulk is still just a really strong brute, his powers are physical, what can he do to someone that cant be physically hurt????? Iceman at his best however has more abilities to play with, from stopping molecular motion, to just ripping out water from inside his body...

sidenote...what the hell could hulk to do hydroman????????? hulk smash, not smart, hydroman couldnt be hurt....

HigH ScholaR
Hulk vs Iceman

FG725
controlled hulk or like psyco hulk

jrodslam
Iceman

Jose123
Iceman

golem370
Mindless Hulk would win

jrodslam
no

FG725
dont know much about hulk but in dont think he can win this one not as strong as iceman has been

golem370
It's all about will power and Hulks will power is just as strong as he is strong."The Hulk goes toe-to-toe with the Super-Adaptoid which has the powers of the Avengers and (according to the cover) the combined might of 100 heroes" This is in Respect Hulk Thread

Mindship
I imagine it would go something like this...
Hulk starts to win; Iceman gets tough, shows his stuff, traps Hulk; Hulk gets really pissed, powers through whatever Iceman throws at him; Iceman realizes today is not his day, takes off OR aint gonna take defeat, stays, keeps trying, maybe stops Hulk again; Hulk gets REALLY pissed, wins.

At least, IMO, this is how it Should go.

The Ion
Iceman 10/10

Lord Magnus
Take a whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
oooooooole lot of ice to trap the Hulk. Hulk 7/10.

spideycarnage
pretty much this is a defensive battle for ice man, the only thing he can do agaist the hulk is trap him or freeze him (probally only for a few minutes) the hulk needs one direct punch at ice man to knock him out.. ice man is a good character and a powerful one, but i think he gets more credit than he deserves..the hulk has taken the avengers, superman, ironman, thor, and juggernaut on his own, iceman is complety out of the hulk's league here.

jrodslam
Iceman cant be perminately damaged phisically. Hulk can smash all he wants but it wouldnt do much. Iceman would just reform. However, Iceman can easily revert Hulk back to Banner via blood manipulation.

If hes not allowed to use that, they stalemate. Otherwise Iceman wins 10/10. No contest really.

spideycarnage
Originally posted by jrodslam
Iceman cant be perminately damaged phisically. Hulk can smash all he wants but it wouldnt do much. Iceman would just reform. However, Iceman can easily revert Hulk back to Banner via blood manipulation.

If hes not allowed to use that, they stalemate. Otherwise Iceman wins 10/10. No contest really.

i wouldent say that the hulk can be damaged by iceman...

High Resistance/High Durability
The high tensile strength of the Hulk's skin allows him protection from most modern artillery such as bullets, grenades, shells, and rockets. He can withstand concussive blasts, impacts from super-powered villians, and extreme high and low temperatures. He was once deep frozen by Ice Man for an extended period of time with no ill effects He has withstood the vacuum of deep space a multitude of times along with the huge pressure of the ocean floor.

source: (http://www.incrediblehulk.com/powersabilities.html)
Pretty much the only thing iceman can do is freeze the hulk and run for his life, or call the X-Men to defeat a frozen hulk. laughing

HigH ScholaR
Originally posted by jrodslam
Iceman cant be perminately damaged phisically. Hulk can smash all he wants but it wouldnt do much. Iceman would just reform. However, Iceman can easily revert Hulk back to Banner via blood manipulation.

If hes not allowed to use that, they stalemate. Otherwise Iceman wins 10/10. No contest really.

Changes Hulk back to Banner by blood manipulation?laughing , WTF explain how this could changed Hulk back to Banner

spideycarnage
Originally posted by HigH ScholaR
Changes Hulk back to Banner by blood manipulation?laughing , WTF explain how this could changed Hulk back to Banner

i was thinkin the same thing laughing laughing

HigH ScholaR
laughing out loud

TheKahn
Its a stalemate. As Iceman can't really be injured by the Hulk, and While Iceman might could immobilize the Hulk for a time I doubt he could kill him. Both have near invulnerability so it would be extremely difficult for either to be put down by the other.

spideycarnage
hulk should throw iceman into the sun lol

jrodslam
Originally posted by HigH ScholaR
Changes Hulk back to Banner by blood manipulation?laughing , WTF explain how this could changed Hulk back to Banner

Iceman would manipulate the bloodflow to Hulk's brain which would cause Hulk to lose consciousness. When that happens, Hulk reverts back to Banner as we all know.

Hulk on the other hand can smash Bobby all he wants, but Iceman would just keep reforming. Thus bringing it back to my previous statement if hes not allowed to use blood manipulation, they stalemate. Otherwise Iceman wins.

Blair Wind
.........molecular stoppage? flash freezes the big green monster.....he just stops his molecules plain and simple....people go look at my iceman respect thread....he is not the stupid snowman anymore....

spideycarnage
ah i said befor, iceman did freeze hulk for a period of time, he broke free with no effect.

xmarksthespot
Iceman 10/10. He can at least incapacitate Hulk, probably kill him. Physical force cannot harm Iceman.

Blair Wind
theres a differecnce between freezing a person from the skin out.....to freezing his very molecules.....VERY different...Iceman Wins....

cheap cabbage
Hulk gets frozen, but can get out after a while, so hulk just waits until bobby thinks he's won and transforms back. Hulk smears iceman into the concrete like I put PB&J on toast.

xmarksthespot
Then Iceman reforms himself. As aforementioned, Hulk would not simply be encased in ice, from which he could break out.

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/6163/iceman6wu.th.jpghttp://img233.imageshack.us/img233/6667/iceman43yl.th.jpg

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/9360/iceman17if.th.jpghttp://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7738/iceman22bj.th.jpghttp://img233.imageshack.us/img233/1091/iceman38bz.th.jpg

superbatman86
Iceman without much effort.His powers are just too ridiculusly strong for most people to even put up a struggle against.ANYONE with water in them should RUN away very fast if they have to fight Bobby.Or Iceman could just go h2h if he wants he can increase his strngth to beyond the hulks if he wants to by absorbing the moisture in the air to increase his strength.

Sodo
As much as I love the Hulk, Iceman would win.

Of course, that is without putting Hulk's temper into consideration. When the Hulk is Mindless, Bobby could smack him around no problem. However, if the Hulk turned Savage during the fight, it would be kind of hard to keep him under control.

The only deciding factor is the Hulk's level of strength.

klwiggs
No prep, who wins?

spideycarnage
been done already, but i say hullk

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