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Gladiator.... in the same powerful league than Classic Juggs, Hulk, Hercules and Thor


how he does against the Maestro ?

he loses

Gladiator gets stomped worse than when he lost against regular Hulk.

My 7 year old nephew saw wrestling where the undertaker beat mark henry and big daddy V at the same time.. He then watched iron eagle where a kid flew a fighter jet and beat grown skilled pilots in a dogfight.. He then saw rambo kill over 100 enemy soldiers by himself... Then he watched 007 escape traps over and over again...... He turned off the TV and asked his 12 year old brother how did all of those amazing things happen???..... His 12 year old brother told him......All of those amazing things happened because they were scripted and planned from the beginning by writers to please peoples...... The 7 year old then asked what would really happen if they were real??..... His brother replied.... All of them would have been killed in the first 5 minutes..........He then opened his comic book and asked his older brother could any hulk beat Gladiator???.... His brother told him that the only way any hulk would win is if the writers LET hulk win, but power set against power set, Gladiator would have hundreds of ways to win...Gladiator wins every single time...Kind of like how superman would too.

Originally posted by james2099
My 7 year old nephew saw wrestling where the undertaker beat mark henry and big daddy V at the same time.. He then watched iron eagle where a kid flew a fighter jet and beat grown skilled pilots in a dogfight.. He then saw rambo kill over 100 enemy soldiers by himself... Then he watched 007 escape traps over and over again...... He turned off the TV and asked his 12 year old brother how did all of those amazing things happen???..... His 12 year old brother told him......All of those amazing things happened because they were scripted and planned from the beginning by writers to please peoples...... The 7 year old then asked what would really happen if they were real??..... His brother replied.... All of them would have been killed in the first 5 minutes..........He then opened his comic book and asked his older brother could any hulk beat Gladiator???.... His brother told him that the only way any hulk would win is if the writers LET hulk win, but power set against power set, Gladiator would have hundreds of ways to win...Gladiator wins every single time...Kind of like how superman would too.

Cute! But the Hulk isn't a one trick pony as many people attempt to make him out to be, he continues to change in combat, and it wouldn't take an incredibly long time for Gladiators punches to become useless to him. Yes Gladiator can fly at light speed but so can the Sentry, look haow far that got him. Gladiator lost to a weaker Hulk, Marstro would stomp the hell out of him like he did when he was younger.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Yes Gladiator can fly at light speed but so can the Sentry, look haow far that got him. Gladiator lost to a weaker Hulk, Marstro would stomp the hell out of him like he did when he was younger.

Sentry used lightspeed attacks?

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Cute! But the Hulk isn't a one trick pony as many people attempt to make him out to be, he continues to change in combat, and it wouldn't take an incredibly long time for Gladiators punches to become useless to him. Yes Gladiator can fly at light speed but so can the Sentry, look haow far that got him. Gladiator lost to a weaker Hulk, Marstro would stomp the hell out of him like he did when he was younger.

Yup, the analogy was cute. However he did have some very salient points.

Furthermore, while the Sentry can fly very fast, and has a host of powers, his fight against WWH was basically quite 'interesting.' For the most part they were just trading blows.

Ask yourself this ....if you were the Sentry, and you were fighting WWH, would you fight the way Sentry did?

Most people (if they are honest) would not. Why? Because it would be stupid.

In a KMC fight any multi or omni dimensional character (e.g. Gladiator, Superman, Silver Surfer, FireStorm, Sentry, etc) will not go and trade punches with a uni-dimensional character (e.g. Hulk, Juggernaut, A-Bomb) .....and this is not PRIMARILY because they might lose (although there are risk factors involved), but primarily because it is STUPID.

It would be like me having a stapler, and you having a handgun (with bullets, and you being a great shot) .....and instead of shooting me you decide to come in close and try to pistol whip me.

Even if you might win, it would still be dumber than a frog steaming up in a hot kettle!

A writer can show the Flash being defeated by Gorilla Grodd (I am sure that has happened even). The Hulk can be written as being defeated by Jubilee. Next month you might see Thanos get handed his @$$ by Kitty Pryde. All of those could happen.

But powerset against powerset, it should not. With all parties concerned going all out it just becomes impossible.

Once again I ask, if YOU were Sentry, and you are facing WWH ....would you fight the way Sentry did? Or might you just (just) decide to use all the other faculties under your control?

Same with the Glad vs Hulk (or Supes vs Hulk).

Imagine you are the Hulk: You know there is Superman/Glad/Sentry around, but he is moving around so fast that you cannot even SEE him. That means one thing (without me having to add more to this).....you CANNOT win. It is not whether or not he can beat you, it is the fact that you cannot beat HIM. You cannot see the character, touch the character, punch the character. People like using the X/10 scale ....well, in this case it is 'You will not win 10/10.'
Whether you lose or not is another debate, but you cannot win.

Imagine you are Sentry/Glad/Superman: You are facing the Hulk, but everything he does is in super slow motion. He tries to punch and you might as well have gone to China and come back in that time frame. You are literally all around him at the same time due to your speed. You can punch the guy a multitude of times in the space it takes for him to throw one punch to you. You can heat him up with heat vision, chill him with ice breath, blur his vision with debris from hurricane force winds. Or you can simply over-saturate him with a multitude of blows from a near 360-degree arc. And in all this if he tries to punch it is as if he is moving in slow motion.
Again, in this case there is no need to debate whether or not you would win. The thing is that it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to lose. The X/10 scale in this case is that '10/10 you will not lose.'

Originally posted by Kutulu
Gladiator gets stomped worse than when he lost against regular Hulk. Don't be an idiot your whole life.

Originally posted by spetznaz
Yup, the analogy was cute. However he did have some very salient points.

Furthermore, while the Sentry can fly very fast, and has a host of powers, his fight against WWH was basically quite 'interesting.' For the most part they were just trading blows.

Ask yourself this ....if you were the Sentry, and you were fighting WWH, would you fight the way Sentry did?

Most people (if they are honest) would not. Why? Because it would be stupid.

In a KMC fight any multi or omni dimensional character (e.g. Gladiator, Superman, Silver Surfer, FireStorm, Sentry, etc) will not go and trade punches with a uni-dimensional character (e.g. Hulk, Juggernaut, A-Bomb) .....and this is not PRIMARILY because they might lose (although there are risk factors involved), but primarily because it is STUPID.

It would be like me having a stapler, and you having a handgun (with bullets, and you being a great shot) .....and instead of shooting me you decide to come in close and try to pistol whip me.

Even if you might win, it would still be dumber than a frog steaming up in a hot kettle!

A writer can show the Flash being defeated by Gorilla Grodd (I am sure that has happened even). The Hulk can be written as being defeated by Jubilee. Next month you might see Thanos get handed his @$$ by Kitty Pryde. All of those could happen.

But powerset against powerset, it should not. With all parties concerned going all out it just becomes impossible.

Once again I ask, if YOU were Sentry, and you are facing WWH ....would you fight the way Sentry did? Or might you just (just) decide to use all the other faculties under your control?

Same with the Glad vs Hulk (or Supes vs Hulk).

Imagine you are the Hulk: You know there is Superman/Glad/Sentry around, but he is moving around so fast that you cannot even SEE him. That means one thing (without me having to add more to this).....you CANNOT win. It is not whether or not he can beat you, it is the fact that you cannot beat HIM. You cannot see the character, touch the character, punch the character. People like using the X/10 scale ....well, in this case it is 'You will not win 10/10.'
Whether you lose or not is another debate, but you cannot win.

Imagine you are Sentry/Glad/Superman: You are facing the Hulk, but everything he does is in super slow motion. He tries to punch and you might as well have gone to China and come back in that time frame. You are literally all around him at the same time due to your speed. You can punch the guy a multitude of times in the space it takes for him to throw one punch to you. You can heat him up with heat vision, chill him with ice breath, blur his vision with debris from hurricane force winds. Or you can simply over-saturate him with a multitude of blows from a near 360-degree arc. And in all this if he tries to punch it is as if he is moving in slow motion.
Again, in this case there is no need to debate whether or not you would win. The thing is that it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to lose. The X/10 scale in this case is that '10/10 you will not lose.'
sane and well thought out post.
but there are reasons why in specific instances this would not work, and Hulk is the definitive exception.

Hulk can, and does, leap at speeds great enough to capture FTL level characters, he has done this since way back and Surfer and Jack of Hearts are but 2 of his most prestigious 'victims'. he can and does +punch+ with force great enough to tear dimensional barriers (the Timestream) and he has a paranormal precision to his aim and can calculate velocities instantly in order to utilise any projectile to down an airborne opponent. given the kinds of force he can exert, there's no way to remain within the battlefield and distant from Hulk's reach. so inevitably it comes down to attempting to subdue him rather than evasion.

now this is where the omni-directional attacks should be of most advantage except, Hulk can heal from anything (his torso getting ripped through TWICE mid-fight, by Zom/Strange) without letting up on his attacks or even weakening in the slightest. this makes it next to impossible to down him, when he is sufficiently focussed on a fight, and for Forums battles that would be a given.

he also has a truly inexhaustible supply of power, which only increases the force of his attacks, the strength of his body and the resilience of his system to fatigues and injury. it's not smart for the opponent to hang back and attempt to pick Hulk off, it will inevitably lead to a stronger, faster, harder, madder Hulk. so they will have to come in close and attempt to leverage whatever temporary physical advantage they might have (or in the case of the Surfer, gamma siphon Hulk down to more manageable levels).

and we haven't even started upon Hulk's ability to physically grab, twist, repulse and rend +energy+ (ie heat, light, electricity etc) ... which again usually comes into play when he's really under stress. nor have we begun to acknowledge how much of an "omni-directional" attack Hulk possesses in his Thunderclaps, in his continent shaking steps, in his stomps (which can be felt across states!) or (and this is most interesting) in his direct emission of Gamma energy as some kind of force capable of affecting everything within a continent's span and potentially capable of destroying the world within minutes.

I think that The Hulk is a reasonable exception to your argument, but I have thought along the lines you state before and they are, as I said at the start, well reasoned.

Maestro

Originally posted by spetznaz
Yup, the analogy was cute. However he did have some very salient points.

Furthermore, while the Sentry can fly very fast, and has a host of powers, his fight against WWH was basically quite 'interesting.' For the most part they were just trading blows.

Ask yourself this ....if you were the Sentry, and you were fighting WWH, would you fight the way Sentry did?

Most people (if they are honest) would not. Why? Because it would be stupid.

In a KMC fight any multi or omni dimensional character (e.g. Gladiator, Superman, Silver Surfer, FireStorm, Sentry, etc) will not go and trade punches with a uni-dimensional character (e.g. Hulk, Juggernaut, A-Bomb) .....and this is not PRIMARILY because they might lose (although there are risk factors involved), but primarily because it is STUPID.

It would be like me having a stapler, and you having a handgun (with bullets, and you being a great shot) .....and instead of shooting me you decide to come in close and try to pistol whip me.

Even if you might win, it would still be dumber than a frog steaming up in a hot kettle!

A writer can show the Flash being defeated by Gorilla Grodd (I am sure that has happened even). The Hulk can be written as being defeated by Jubilee. Next month you might see Thanos get handed his @$$ by Kitty Pryde. All of those could happen.

But powerset against powerset, it should not. With all parties concerned going all out it just becomes impossible.

Once again I ask, if YOU were Sentry, and you are facing WWH ....would you fight the way Sentry did? Or might you just (just) decide to use all the other faculties under your control?

Same with the Glad vs Hulk (or Supes vs Hulk).

Imagine you are the Hulk: You know there is Superman/Glad/Sentry around, but he is moving around so fast that you cannot even SEE him. That means one thing (without me having to add more to this).....you CANNOT win. It is not whether or not he can beat you, it is the fact that you cannot beat HIM. You cannot see the character, touch the character, punch the character. People like using the X/10 scale ....well, in this case it is 'You will not win 10/10.'
Whether you lose or not is another debate, but you cannot win.

Imagine you are Sentry/Glad/Superman: You are facing the Hulk, but everything he does is in super slow motion. He tries to punch and you might as well have gone to China and come back in that time frame. You are literally all around him at the same time due to your speed. You can punch the guy a multitude of times in the space it takes for him to throw one punch to you. You can heat him up with heat vision, chill him with ice breath, blur his vision with debris from hurricane force winds. Or you can simply over-saturate him with a multitude of blows from a near 360-degree arc. And in all this if he tries to punch it is as if he is moving in slow motion.
Again, in this case there is no need to debate whether or not you would win. The thing is that it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to lose. The X/10 scale in this case is that '10/10 you will not lose.' You are one very smart person,It was my honor and pleasure to read your post.. Very very good post.

Originally posted by janus77
sane and well thought out post.
but there are reasons why in specific instances this would not work, and Hulk is the definitive exception.

Hulk can, and does, leap at speeds great enough to capture FTL level characters, he has done this since way back and Surfer and Jack of Hearts are but 2 of his most prestigious 'victims'. he can and does +punch+ with force great enough to tear dimensional barriers (the Timestream) and he has a paranormal precision to his aim and can calculate velocities instantly in order to utilise any projectile to down an airborne opponent. given the kinds of force he can exert, there's no way to remain within the battlefield and distant from Hulk's reach. so inevitably it comes down to attempting to subdue him rather than evasion.

now this is where the omni-directional attacks should be of most advantage except, Hulk can heal from anything (his torso getting ripped through TWICE mid-fight, by Zom/Strange) without letting up on his attacks or even weakening in the slightest. this makes it next to impossible to down him, when he is sufficiently focussed on a fight, and for Forums battles that would be a given.

he also has a truly inexhaustible supply of power, which only increases the force of his attacks, the strength of his body and the resilience of his system to fatigues and injury. it's not smart for the opponent to hang back and attempt to pick Hulk off, it will inevitably lead to a stronger, faster, harder, madder Hulk. so they will have to come in close and attempt to leverage whatever temporary physical advantage they might have (or in the case of the Surfer, gamma siphon Hulk down to more manageable levels).

and we haven't even started upon Hulk's ability to physically grab, twist, repulse and rend +energy+ (ie heat, light, electricity etc) ... which again usually comes into play when he's really under stress. nor have we begun to acknowledge how much of an "omni-directional" attack Hulk possesses in his Thunderclaps, in his continent shaking steps, in his stomps (which can be felt across states!) or (and this is most interesting) in his direct emission of Gamma energy as some kind of force capable of affecting everything within a continent's span and potentially capable of destroying the world within minutes.

I think that The Hulk is a reasonable exception to your argument, but I have thought along the lines you state before and they are, as I said at the start, well reasoned. Hulks power set does not allow him to hit FTL foes.. The writers allow him to do it.... Spiderman can dance and dodge hulk all day, Hulk cannot track spiderman down because without the writers help his powerset does not allow him to be able to....Gladiators powerset allows him to track spiderman lock-on to him and then outspeed him and kill him with one high speed punch.... There is a BIG difference between what the writers allow and what your power set allows.

you're quite wrong but right now's not the time to get into this.
just think on how Hulk delivers a punch that breaks a dimensional barrier. force, velocity, speed ... and no, saying "the writers decide, not the powerset" is not an answer merely tautology, this is comic fiction, of course the writers decide and the writers extend and modify 'powersets' so there's not even a stable basis for that either (remember how superman started out).

the writers have depicted Hulk utilising that infinite power source more freely, moving fast enough to jump onto Surfer's board, or leaping fast enough to catch Jack of Hearts who then notes Hulk's phenomenal speed.

speed translates into force and force translates into speed, muscles, mass, energy ... it's all interconnected and interdependent.

Originally posted by janus77
you're quite wrong but right now's not the time to get into this.
just think on how Hulk delivers a punch that breaks a dimensional barrier. force, velocity, speed ... and no, saying "the writers decide, not the powerset" is not an answer merely tautology, this is comic fiction, of course the writers decide and the writers extend and modify 'powersets' so there's not even a stable basis for that either (remember how superman started out).

the writers have depicted Hulk utilising that infinite power source more freely, moving fast enough to jump onto Surfer's board, or leaping fast enough to catch Jack of Hearts who then notes Hulk's phenomenal speed.

speed translates into force and force translates into speed, muscles, mass, energy ... it's all interconnected and interdependent. True.... But tell me this.... IF hulk,gladiator,superman,silversurfer,supreme,wonde
r woman,kid flash,hyperion and aunt may raced 1000 miles and the beyonder had to kill the 2 that cross the finish line in the 8th and 9th place.... which 2 would die?

Originally posted by spetznaz
Yup, the analogy was cute. However he did have some very salient points.

Furthermore, while the Sentry can fly very fast, and has a host of powers, his fight against WWH was basically quite 'interesting.' For the most part they were just trading blows.

Ask yourself this ....if you were the Sentry, and you were fighting WWH, would you fight the way Sentry did?

Most people (if they are honest) would not. Why? Because it would be stupid.

In a KMC fight any multi or omni dimensional character (e.g. Gladiator, Superman, Silver Surfer, FireStorm, Sentry, etc) will not go and trade punches with a uni-dimensional character (e.g. Hulk, Juggernaut, A-Bomb) .....and this is not PRIMARILY because they might lose (although there are risk factors involved), but primarily because it is STUPID.

It would be like me having a stapler, and you having a handgun (with bullets, and you being a great shot) .....and instead of shooting me you decide to come in close and try to pistol whip me.

Even if you might win, it would still be dumber than a frog steaming up in a hot kettle!

A writer can show the Flash being defeated by Gorilla Grodd (I am sure that has happened even). The Hulk can be written as being defeated by Jubilee. Next month you might see Thanos get handed his @$$ by Kitty Pryde. All of those could happen.

But powerset against powerset, it should not. With all parties concerned going all out it just becomes impossible.

Once again I ask, if YOU were Sentry, and you are facing WWH ....would you fight the way Sentry did? Or might you just (just) decide to use all the other faculties under your control?

Same with the Glad vs Hulk (or Supes vs Hulk).

Imagine you are the Hulk: You know there is Superman/Glad/Sentry around, but he is moving around so fast that you cannot even SEE him. That means one thing (without me having to add more to this).....you CANNOT win. It is not whether or not he can beat you, it is the fact that you cannot beat HIM. You cannot see the character, touch the character, punch the character. People like using the X/10 scale ....well, in this case it is 'You will not win 10/10.'
Whether you lose or not is another debate, but you cannot win.

Imagine you are Sentry/Glad/Superman: You are facing the Hulk, but everything he does is in super slow motion. He tries to punch and you might as well have gone to China and come back in that time frame. You are literally all around him at the same time due to your speed. You can punch the guy a multitude of times in the space it takes for him to throw one punch to you. You can heat him up with heat vision, chill him with ice breath, blur his vision with debris from hurricane force winds. Or you can simply over-saturate him with a multitude of blows from a near 360-degree arc. And in all this if he tries to punch it is as if he is moving in slow motion.
Again, in this case there is no need to debate whether or not you would win. The thing is that it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to lose. The X/10 scale in this case is that '10/10 you will not lose.'

QFT once again.

drunk gladiator stomps him

Nope. Not this time. There's one key factor that Spetz forgot about. Gladiator is vulnerable to certain types of radiation, Gamma among them.

So Glads may win, but not that easily. Hulk has beaten him with the radiation edge before.

Maestro FTW

Maestro destroys Gladiator.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Maestro destroys Gladiator. You must be talking about the gladiator that dare devil fights because the imperial guard one would not even have to engage any hulk...... orbit punch all day long or do what current superman does to hulk everytime they meet...but unlike supes, gladiator will send hulk into space instead of feeling sorry for him and only koing him.

Originally posted by james2099
You must be talking about the gladiator that dare devil fights because the imperial guard one would not even have to engage any hulk...... orbit punch all day long or do what current superman does to hulk everytime they meet...but unlike supes, gladiator will send hulk into space instead of feeling sorry for him and only koing him.

A weaker Hulk has already beaten Gladiator. Maestro is 2 times strong, he's got banners intelligence and 100 or so years of experience.

Gladiator gets beaten and Maestro adds his mohawk to his trophy room.

Originally posted by james2099
True.... But tell me this.... IF hulk,gladiator,superman,silversurfer,supreme,wonde
r woman,kid flash,hyperion and aunt may raced 1000 miles and the beyonder had to kill the 2 that cross the finish line in the 8th and 9th place.... which 2 would die?
Gladiator and Aunt May (god rest her soul)... Hulk would be smart enough to Kill them at the starting line

no seriously though, if Hulk was in that situation you'd find the writer describing how the stress causes his body to pump insane amounts of gamma through his legs, letting him run at speeds comparable to the speedsters though because of the short distance Hulk would probably end up just outracing Aunt May and a couple of the slower FTLs.

he clearly could catch Sentry mid-speedblitz (the initial punch he threw as Sentry attacked him) and he has shown instant speed in his leap at Jack of Hearts.


Hulk doesn't utilise his powers much, or at least not very creatively, he's not actually about his powers as much as the psychological and emotional devastation of dealing with them... he's like Sentry 'cept not a basket case.

Hulk's muscles react in Superspeed, he just doesn't have the flight ability to go along with it. Combined with his mystic senses this allows him to hit characters that are way faster than him, by intuitively knowing where they are.

In the same way that Doomsday caught characters offguard with his speed, Hulk has done the same; being able to easily keep up with characters that are FTL or extremely fast (for example easily being able to match Iron Man in reflexes even after the Extremis upgrade).

The only reason people think Hulk is slow is that he doesn't have a flight mechanism in place.

Maestro Hulk literally wipes his arse with Glads.

"Charmin anyone"?

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
A weaker Hulk has already beaten Gladiator. Maestro is 2 times strong, he's got banners intelligence and 100 or so years of experience.

Gladiator gets beaten and Maestro adds his mohawk to his trophy room. Why is it that people run to a comicbook fight on a kmc battle thread?.. That fight between glads and hulk was fixed from the start.... on kmc we are not writers who let anyone win to keep a story going... On here we dont have to keep a character alive for next week issue...On here its kill or get rid of only one time...No coming back,no writers help,no pis,cis no radiation plants. On here its power set against power set.... All fighters will do whatever it takes to win without the writers blocking abilities, As we look at 2 or more fighters we have to understand what their powers allows them to do...let me walk you through that hulk glads fight to show you.... hulk tackles glads, glad punchs hulk away...hulk comes back.... glad tries to take hulk into outer space...now answer this?.. did glad powerset stop him from going 5 times the speed of light or did the writers stop him???... we know glad powerset allows him to reach that speed because we know he hit 100 times lightspeed.... glad tries to burn hulk up.... hulks internal organs are exposed... hulk uses his hands... answer this... hulks hands are not indestructible...did glad powerset allow hulk to block thoses rays or did the writers??... the writers aimed those rays at hulks chest...kmc aims those rays at hulks whole body or his head.... will the writers let hulk die in that fight??...no.... will kmc let hulk die...YES.... Is it in glads power to send hulk into outerspace with one punch??? yes.... can hulk send glads into space?? yes... can glads dodge hulk...all day long.... can hulk dodge glads.... never..... can glad stop himself in space and come back..yes.. can hulk??...no... one more short one.... in the comic book glad told cannonball he was going into the sun... the writers warned cannonball to keep him alive....on kmc there is no warning from writers.... on kmc glad would have launched that punch instead of wraping cannonball in those steel girders.... spiderman will never beat firelord on kmc, he may be allowed to do so by writers but not on here.... glad tosses juggernaut but struggles with rogue because of the writers.... its just like if i put a muzzle on my pitt and let him fight a cat... my dog cannot win because like in comics writers put muzzles on peoples.... but on kmc my dog will not be muzzled and his powerset against that cats powerset will go at it... you cannot beat someone with near limitless strength and faster than light punchs that can put you into orbit before you can move... in the comics the writers may save you but on kmc thats your azz.

Originally posted by james2099
Why is it that people run to a comicbook fight on a kmc battle thread?.. That fight between glads and hulk was fixed from the start.... on kmc we are not writers who let anyone win to keep a story going... On here we dont have to keep a character alive for next week issue...On here its kill or get rid of only one time...No coming back,no writers help,no pis,cis no radiation plants. On here its power set against power set.... All fighters will do whatever it takes to win without the writers blocking abilities, As we look at 2 or more fighters we have to understand what their powers allows them to do...let me walk you through that hulk glads fight to show you.... hulk tackles glads, glad punchs hulk away...hulk comes back.... glad tries to take hulk into outer space...now answer this?.. did glad powerset stop him from going 5 times the speed of light or did the writers stop him???... we know glad powerset allows him to reach that speed because we know he hit 100 times lightspeed.... glad tries to burn hulk up.... hulks internal organs are exposed... hulk uses his hands... answer this... hulks hands are not indestructible...did glad powerset allow hulk to block thoses rays or did the writers??... the writers aimed those rays at hulks chest...kmc aims those rays at hulks whole body or his head.... will the writers let hulk die in that fight??...no.... will kmc let hulk die...YES.... Is it in glads power to send hulk into outerspace with one punch??? yes.... can hulk send glads into space?? yes... can glads dodge hulk...all day long.... can hulk dodge glads.... never..... can glad stop himself in space and come back..yes.. can hulk??...no... one more short one.... in the comic book glad told cannonball he was going into the sun... the writers warned cannonball to keep him alive....on kmc there is no warning from writers.... on kmc glad would have launched that punch instead of wraping cannonball in those steel girders.... spiderman will never beat firelord on kmc, he may be allowed to do so by writers but not on here.... glad tosses juggernaut but struggles with rogue because of the writers.... its just like if i put a muzzle on my pitt and let him fight a cat... my dog cannot win because like in comics writers put muzzles on peoples.... but on kmc my dog will not be muzzled and his powerset against that cats powerset will go at it... you cannot beat someone with near limitless strength and faster than light punchs that can put you into orbit before you can move... in the comics the writers may save you but on kmc thats your azz.

Paragraphs - use them, love them.

the combination of intense adolescent emotion, vitriol and bias tend to retard the areas of the brain concerned with generating syntactically and logically coherent texts, from what I've observed of some of the Hulk hating trolls.

Who are the Hulk haters?

Originally posted by janus77
you're quite wrong but right now's not the time to get into this.
just think on how Hulk delivers a punch that breaks a dimensional barrier. force, velocity, speed ... and no, saying "the writers decide, not the powerset" is not an answer merely tautology, this is comic fiction, of course the writers decide and the writers extend and modify 'powersets' so there's not even a stable basis for that either (remember how superman started out).

the writers have depicted Hulk utilising that infinite power source more freely, moving fast enough to jump onto Surfer's board, or leaping fast enough to catch Jack of Hearts who then notes Hulk's phenomenal speed.

speed translates into force and force translates into speed, muscles, mass, energy ... it's all interconnected and interdependent.

If we actually use physics with forces and masses and speed nothing in comics would really make sense. Energy and matter get created and destroyed like nothing. Forces are generated that make no sense based on any real world physics. For most things in comics we have to take it at face value and any explanation has to be severely restricted otherwise every character in comics basically is powered by an infinite power source and can change the laws of physics whenever the need is great enough. Of course we try our best to apply laws of physics when we can so we can make some sense of what we read but calculating forces of punches and extrapolating speeds would mess up all of comics way too much.

On average, how fast can hulk punch and fight? Usually, he fights people with metahuman speed or less and is more or less successful depending on the showing. To my knowledge he hasn't shown anything to indicate FTL speeds (unless you do the calculations that I stated wouldn't work so well in comics). He has fought characters that can go FTL but nothing in those fights indicated that they were actually fighting at that speed though (If scans can be provided that would be great evidence to be used in this and future hulk debates).

We also know gladiator can fly FTL and I believe theres good enough evidence that he can fight at that speed too. While in many examples he doesn't fight at light speed this is of course due to the fact that it'd be boring.

In this forum, everyone fights to the best of their abilities. That means superman, flash, gladiator etc speedblitzes everyone they can. FTL would make hulk's showings seem like he's standing still. Based on this hulk should lose.

yes the rigid application of any of the physical sciences in comics would be absurd but their application in broad strokes, is what drives certain characters (Flash for instance, or Hulk as explained in certain comics, or DD and his dna based evolution)... without the "science", they would cease to be the characters they are and instead just be "magical"/arbitrary assemblages of incoherent powers.

Hulk has tagged guys like Surfer and Jack of Hearts with consistency, it has been commented upon by the characters. and yes the force of his punches and the fact that he connects with them - consistently - when fighting herald-like characters, requires that he be fast enough (it's almost tautological but that is essentially how the evidence is provided, on-panel rather than in bios).

Originally posted by janus77
yes the rigid application of any of the physical sciences in comics would be absurd but their application in broad strokes, is what drives certain characters (Flash for instance, or Hulk as explained in certain comics, or DD and his dna based evolution)... without the "science", they would cease to be the characters they are and instead just be "magical"/arbitrary assemblages of incoherent powers.

Hulk has tagged guys like Surfer and Jack of Hearts with consistency, it has been commented upon by the characters. and yes the force of his punches and the fact that he connects with them - consistently - when fighting herald-like characters, requires that he be fast enough (it's almost tautological but that is essentially how the evidence is provided, on-panel rather than in bios).

^^ Co-signed, Hulk has a long history of fighting characters with nanosecond reaction times and had no trouble tagging them. Hyperion, Gladiator, Sentry, Surfer. These are all characters on-panel who can fly FTL, can react in nanosecond time same as Flash for instance. Hulk has mystical senses which allow him to see astral forms without having to view them. Thus it makes sense he can hit FTL people.

Originally posted by Kutulu
^^ Co-signed, Hulk has a long history of fighting characters with nanosecond reaction times and had no trouble tagging them. Hyperion, Gladiator, Sentry, Surfer. These are all characters on-panel who can fly FTL, can react in nanosecond time same as Flash for instance. Hulk has mystical senses which allow him to see astral forms without having to view them. Thus it makes sense he can hit FTL people. In order to hit something moving at FTL, hulk would have to be able to move at that speed in motion..... Hulk has never hit someone moving that fast because to them he is a statue to them....If flash fights a regular human and moves at human speed then he can be hit. Hulk could not sense that thing moving around his head but superman could.. So your theory is wrong.

Originally posted by spetznaz
Yup, the analogy was cute. However he did have some very salient points.

Furthermore, while the Sentry can fly very fast, and has a host of powers, his fight against WWH was basically quite 'interesting.' For the most part they were just trading blows.

Ask yourself this ....if you were the Sentry, and you were fighting WWH, would you fight the way Sentry did?

Most people (if they are honest) would not. Why? Because it would be stupid.

In a KMC fight any multi or omni dimensional character (e.g. Gladiator, Superman, Silver Surfer, FireStorm, Sentry, etc) will not go and trade punches with a uni-dimensional character (e.g. Hulk, Juggernaut, A-Bomb) .....and this is not PRIMARILY because they might lose (although there are risk factors involved), but primarily because it is STUPID.

It would be like me having a stapler, and you having a handgun (with bullets, and you being a great shot) .....and instead of shooting me you decide to come in close and try to pistol whip me.

Even if you might win, it would still be dumber than a frog steaming up in a hot kettle!

A writer can show the Flash being defeated by Gorilla Grodd (I am sure that has happened even). The Hulk can be written as being defeated by Jubilee. Next month you might see Thanos get handed his @$$ by Kitty Pryde. All of those could happen.

But powerset against powerset, it should not. With all parties concerned going all out it just becomes impossible.

Once again I ask, if YOU were Sentry, and you are facing WWH ....would you fight the way Sentry did? Or might you just (just) decide to use all the other faculties under your control?

Same with the Glad vs Hulk (or Supes vs Hulk).

Imagine you are the Hulk: You know there is Superman/Glad/Sentry around, but he is moving around so fast that you cannot even SEE him. That means one thing (without me having to add more to this).....you CANNOT win. It is not whether or not he can beat you, it is the fact that you cannot beat HIM. You cannot see the character, touch the character, punch the character. People like using the X/10 scale ....well, in this case it is 'You will not win 10/10.'
Whether you lose or not is another debate, but you cannot win.

Imagine you are Sentry/Glad/Superman: You are facing the Hulk, but everything he does is in super slow motion. He tries to punch and you might as well have gone to China and come back in that time frame. You are literally all around him at the same time due to your speed. You can punch the guy a multitude of times in the space it takes for him to throw one punch to you. You can heat him up with heat vision, chill him with ice breath, blur his vision with debris from hurricane force winds. Or you can simply over-saturate him with a multitude of blows from a near 360-degree arc. And in all this if he tries to punch it is as if he is moving in slow motion.
Again, in this case there is no need to debate whether or not you would win. The thing is that it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to lose. The X/10 scale in this case is that '10/10 you will not lose.' not bad but the only thing you left out (besides the obvious lack of a fight if fast guys get to do all that, thus comic companies losing readers) is all that speed stuff SHOULD tax them against punishment sponges like the hulk and others. high speed motion should have a major toll on the brain and energy reserves and (imo) should be done sparingly.

maestro

wikipedia quote from sentry article, take note of the last sentance:

"The Sentry's powers derive from a serum that moves his molecules an instant ahead of the current timeline, although he also absorbs solar radiation for strength. Even though most of his powers and their limits are unknown, he displays several abilities including vast superhuman strength, speed, stamina, durability and senses, the power of flight, and energy projection. His level of strength is far less than that of the Hulk however, who is THE strongest being in the Marvel or DC universes."

it's "official"

Originally posted by james2099
In order to hit something moving at FTL, hulk would have to be able to move at that speed in motion.....

Baseball players hit balls moving in excess of 70mph, does that mean they can run that fast?

I just read that, my friend

WWH badass

Russell Crowe wins.

the article?

if so, hulk is transforming into a real super-badass that is capable of down right beating most if not all of the popular names in comics.

it's about time

Originally posted by Mindset
Baseball players hit balls moving in excess of 70mph, does that mean they can run that fast?

If all speedsters move in a parabolic curve as predicted by gravity and go toward an approx. square foot area (I don't play baseball, but something around that) in front of the hulk then your analogy would be apt.

If a baseball player can hit a ball that is sentient and can turn corners at 70 mph and can basically travel anywhere it wants at that speed irrespective of gravity then your analogy would be apt also. judging as most people have trouble catching flies in the air (which are much slower and barely even conscious of how they're moving), I'd say the analogy doesn't correlate so well.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
wikipedia quote from sentry article, take note of the last sentance:

"The Sentry's powers derive from a serum that moves his molecules an instant ahead of the current timeline, although he also absorbs solar radiation for strength. Even though most of his powers and their limits are unknown, he displays several abilities including vast superhuman strength, speed, stamina, durability and senses, the power of flight, and energy projection. His level of strength is far less than that of the Hulk however, who is THE strongest being in the Marvel or DC universes."

it's "official"
Posting a bio doesnt make it official,http://en.dcdatabaseproject.com/Kal-El_%28Earth-Prime%29
seriously.

Originally posted by bobbi
If all speedsters move in a parabolic curve as predicted by gravity and go toward an approx. square foot area (I don't play baseball, but something around that) in front of the hulk then your analogy would be apt.

If a baseball player can hit a ball that is sentient and can turn corners at 70 mph and can basically travel anywhere it wants at that speed irrespective of gravity then your analogy would be apt also. judging as most people have trouble catching flies in the air (which are much slower and barely even conscious of how they're moving), I'd say the analogy doesn't correlate so well.

Hulk's muscles move in superspeed. It's been proven time and time again. Example: he was shaking the vials at close to light speed using his hand to act as a centrifuge. Estimates vary from 1/9th the speed of light to 1/1000th the speed of light based upon interpretation, but fact is he was totally calm and in scientist mode at the time.

The fact that he can shake his hand at even 1/1000th the speed of light, while calm no less, indicates that his muscles react in superspeed. We also know that Hulk has a supernatural level of intuition in knowing where people are, possibly linked in with his ability to see astral forms and interact with energy.

He just can't fly.

Let me illustrate an example for the scientific minded folks. Picture a fibreoptics cable. Signals within this cable move at lightspeed. Now picture the fibreoptics cable hooked up to a tissue that reacted close to lightspeed. That is basically what you would have when looking at Hulk's physiology. He can easily react to things moving close to light speed. He has grabbed and hit people who can see into the future like Sentry and Spiderman. Something with his mystic senses let him know where someone is, this ability has been shown time and time again. It is this ability combined with his light speed level reflexes (again think of a fibre cable) that lets him hit superfast opponents.

An equation for the scientific minded folks out there. Calculate how fast his muscles would have to react and move in order to perform the following feats:
* Jumping from the Earth's surface into outerspace
* Jumping from the land into the air fast enough to catch an ICBM that had a head start and was already miles in the air.
* Jumping from Sakaar's moon to it's atmosphere in order to get into freefall into the gravitational well of the planet. Calculate the distance between the Earth and the moon, and calculate how much force would be required to propel a 1200 lb object and what speed his legs would have to move to do that.
* Hitting a character who is approaching at subluminal velocity towards you.
* Matching speed with characters who fight in the nanoseconds for swinging punches (Gladiator, Hyperion, Sentry, Silver Surfer and Thor are examples).

Now - 3.33564095 nanoseconds is how long it takes for light to travel one meter. Hulk was able to easily match blows with characters moving that fast. Not once, not twice, but dozen+ occasions. If it happened once you could say PIS, if twice, then rarely used ability. Dozen fights or more though? That indicates it's well within his normal range of ability. His reaction time is insane, he just can't fly. Which is why people mistake him for being slow.

I was just arguing the inadequacy of that specific example. but your argument is well taken. Scans would be nice though for the centrifuge thing. That's pretty good evidence if it's true.

The fighting ppl who at other times moved at light speed is kinda iffy. you get people like batman being able to hold their own against superman time and time again with the help of kryptonite or some gadget even though superspeed should make him easily incapacitate batman (since he of course won't kill him). And if Hulk is capable of such speed why does he sometimes struggle with people so much slower than him? aka spiderman is nothing compared to the speed of the surfer yet spiderman was able to dodge the hulk for a good amount of time. If hulk was really capable of approx. light speed spiderman should be nothing to him (as is true for many people he fights). To make fights interesting comics generally just make everyone go at approx. the same speed. I honestly don't know how to reconcile this in a debate. (unless u actually think spiderman has subliminal movements...his spidey sense doesn't really count since that is said to just equalize for his lack of actual martial arts training. as is seen by his difficulty with martial artists)