Superman Prime (Juggs crystal, Magnetos suit) vs. Marvel Universe

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Cosmo Kramer
Who wins? This isnt that uneven.

DrDoom101
magneto's suit? anyway, Galactus, Tyrant, Thanos, Phoenix, Zeus, Odin, and RKT are more than enought to beat Supes.

Darth_Erebus
Originally posted by Cosmo Kramer
Who wins? This isnt that uneven.

Are you kidding?

TOAA
HOTU
LT
Phoenix
Eternity
Infinity
Death
Oblivion
Galactus
Tyrant
Any Celestial
Rune King Thor
Odin
Zeus
Zuras

are only SOME (there are quite a few others) of the Marvel characters that could easily beat any version of Superman by themselves.

grey fox
TOAA blinks and marvel wins.

Space M ummy
Without going to cosmic level, I'd say the surfer with the quantum bands
(didnt this happen in a surfer annual somewhere? I thought I saw scans yesterday) would give him a REALLY good fight.

Or current scarlet witch undoes his reality and annihilates him.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Cosmo Kramer
Who wins? This isnt that uneven.

The ruby of Cytorrak and Mgnetos suit dont enhance the already powerful Superman Prime in any way. So this is basically Superman Prime versus Marvel in which he case he loses horribly.

Juntai
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The ruby of Cytorrak and Mgnetos suit dont enhance the already powerful Superman Prime in any way. So this is basically Superman Prime versus Marvel in which he case he loses horribly. Due to lack of showings if nothing more. We won't REALLY know until the 853rd century rolls around and Clark comes to take his 27 monthly titles back from the Supermen.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Juntai
Due to lack of showings if nothing more. We won't REALLY know until the 853rd century rolls around and Clark comes to take his 27 monthly titles back from the Supermen.

Do you really believe on his own he could take on beings like Phoenix , LT and the Infinites? Certainly not by his showings on panel which didnt even portray him sufficiently as beyond even Galactus.

Hegemon875
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Do you really believe on his own he could take on beings like Phoenix , LT and the Infinites? Certainly not by his showings on panel which didnt even portray him sufficiently as beyond even Galactus.

OP stated that we exclude cosmics. Anyway Im of the mind that no one can really comment on primes abilities since we know next to nothing about him.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Hegemon875
OP stated that we exclude cosmics. Anyway Im of the mind that no one can really comment on primes abilities since we know next to nothing about him.

OP isnt the threadmaker so his wishes pertaining to the thread arent valid. (Who's OP?)

As this thread features Superman Prime despite his relatively few showings we have to comment on his powers and all we have to go by is what he displayed on panel which didnt place him beyond the likes of Galactus as it stands.

Juntai
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Do you really believe on his own he could take on beings like Phoenix , LT and the Infinites? Certainly not by his showings on panel which didnt even portray him sufficiently as beyond even Galactus. When did I say this...?

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Juntai
When did I say this...?

You never im just asking a question. Im saying he couldnt stand up to such beings, you replied by talking of his relatively few showings. Thats why i asked "Do you really believe on his own he could take on beings like Phoenix , LT and the Infinites?" few showings or not we have to go by whats shown on panel. Going by that i say no. Whats your answer?

Juntai
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You never im just asking a question. Im saying he couldnt stand up to such beings, you replied by talking of his relatively few showings. Thats why i asked "Do you really believe on his own he could take on beings like Phoenix , LT and the Infinites?" few showings or not we have to go by whats shown on panel. Going by that i say no. Whats your answer? By showings? No.
By mythology of Superman Prime as he's depicted through what you see and hear from the other characters in DC 1 million regarding him . . yeah, easily more powerful than anyone, save aspects of God.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Juntai
By showings? No.
By mythology of Superman Prime as he's depicted through what you see and hear from the other characters in DC 1 million regarding him . . yeah, easily more powerful than anyone, save aspects of God.

So the answer both ways is still no. wink

Juntai
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
So the answer both ways is still no. wink Assuming one man, without any weapon of mass destruction could take on a universe is pretty dumb in any aspect, like the guys trying to argue with me that professor x with cerebro and kick could defeat the entire dc universe. lol.

He certainly by what is apperent through those novels and the insane levels of those characters And him being considered so far and above that these beings WORSHIP him is a clear sign that he'd take most anyone.

But yes, no matter he'd never be able to take an aspect of God working it's place in the omniverse..

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Juntai
Assuming one man, without any weapon of mass destruction could take on a universe is pretty dumb in any aspect, like the guys trying to argue with me that professor x with cerebro and kick could defeat the entire dc universe. lol.

He certainly by what is apperent through those novels and the insane levels of those characters And him being considered so far and above that these beings WORSHIP him is a clear sign that he'd take most anyone.

But yes, no matter he'd never be able to take an aspect of God working it's place in the omniverse..

So i guess thats a no then? wink stick out tongue

Juntai
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
So i guess thats a no then? wink stick out tongue Yep.

Juntai
Wierd though because it feels as if you backed me into a corner regardless of this being a theoretical debate as I never alluded towards him being able to win in the first place. lol.

Hegemon875
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
OP isnt the threadmaker so his wishes pertaining to the thread arent valid. (Who's OP?)

As this thread features Superman Prime despite his relatively few showings we have to comment on his powers and all we have to go by is what he displayed on panel which didnt place him beyond the likes of Galactus as it stands.

OP= Original Poster, meh I was wrong anyways it wasnt the OP that stated not to use cosmics.

Space M ummy
I was the poster who said "without using cosmics" because even superman prime doesn't really have a way to hurt things like Eternity, TOAA, pre-retcon beyonder, The phoenix force, Thanos (or anyone) with the gauntlet, a fleet of celestials, etc.

Keeping it restricted to beings below skyfather level just makes it more interesting.

Juntai
Originally posted by Space M ummy
I was the poster who said "without using cosmics" because even superman prime doesn't really have a way to hurt things like Eternity, TOAA, pre-retcon beyonder, The phoenix force, Thanos (or anyone) with the gauntlet, a fleet of celestials, etc.

Keeping it restricted to beings below skyfather level just makes it more interesting. Even without those, it's still rediculous to assume he could take on the universe, although individually he'd be far more powerful than any non abstract or high cosmic.


One thing I want to know though is... when people post about SUperman prime is he considered to have the GL ring? Because it isn't mentioned in this thread.

Space M ummy
Good question. I assumed he had it, since the only showing superman prime made was with the GL ring, and squashing (an essentially already beaten) solaris was done with the ring, not his own powers.

Thinking logically, Superman prime without the ring is still only as strong as his power source- a yellow star. Any being drawing on power that exceeds this should still be able to give him a good fight.

*With* the ring, he's a beast. His willpower should allow it to do almost whatever he wants it to.

Juntai
Originally posted by Space M ummy
Good question. I assumed he had it, since the only showing superman prime made was with the GL ring, and squashing (an essentially already beaten) solaris was done with the ring, not his own powers.

Thinking logically, Superman prime without the ring is still only as strong as his power source- a yellow star. Any being drawing on power that exceeds this should still be able to give him a good fight.

*With* the ring, he's a beast. His willpower should allow it to do almost whatever he wants it to. Especially since it's was Kyle's ring, with no weakness, and charged by ION's power to never run out. lol. And Supes' will is infinite.

leonheartmm
non cosmics eh? lets see how well superman prime does against franklin richards.

Juntai
Originally posted by leonheartmm
non cosmics eh? lets see how well superman prime does against franklin richards. It he had the ring it wouldn't be a problem.
Besides mental attacks on even CURRENT Superman are next to useless.

Hegemon875
Originally posted by leonheartmm
non cosmics eh? lets see how well superman prime does against franklin richards.

laughing I thought you said reed richards

Juntai
Originally posted by Hegemon875
laughing I thought you said reed richards lol.

leonheartmm
Originally posted by Juntai
It he had the ring it wouldn't be a problem.
Besides mental attacks on even CURRENT Superman are next to useless.


juntai. this is FRANKLIN, not someordinary psionic, he creates universes without even realizing.

Swanky-Tuna
Originally posted by Juntai
Due to lack of showings if nothing more. We won't REALLY know until the 853rd century rolls around and Clark comes to take his 27 monthly titles back from the Supermen.
I think Superman would keep the other Supermen around and make them swarm around him like intercepters swarm around carriers on Starcraft.

Juntai
Originally posted by leonheartmm
juntai. this is FRANKLIN, not someordinary psionic, he creates universes without even realizing. He creates pocket dimensions, so what? My old Elf in D&D could do that, and he'd stand no chance against Superman. Show me someone mentally sticking it to Superman telepathically or dominating him with telepathy without using Maxwell Lord's example since it took nearly 14 years real life time to accomplish what he did.

Also noting that a GL ring can easily best this, especially now that they're sentient again. And that's WITHOUT Superman's infinite will.


Then we also must consider that Superman is a knowledged telepathic/ethereal/astral/whatever fighter as well, knowing the different Torqasm discplines

leonheartmm
Originally posted by Juntai
He creates pocket dimensions, so what? My old Elf in D&D could do that, and he'd stand no chance against Superman. Show me someone mentally sticking it to Superman telepathically or dominating him with telepathy without using Maxwell Lord's example since it took nearly 14 years real life time to accomplish what he did.

Also noting that a GL ring can easily best this, especially now that they're sentient again. And that's WITHOUT Superman's infinite will.


Then we also must consider that Superman is a knowledged telepathic/ethereal/astral/whatever fighter as well, knowing the different Torqasm discplines


r u INSANE, the guy doesnt create pocket dimensions, he created multiple universe without even his own knowledge, he also resurrected galactus, no superman stands a chance.

Space M ummy
Wasn't Manchester Black able to mess with superman's mind?

Franklin isn't just a telepath, he's a reality warper. he's potentially celestial level. He's still a kid, so I don't think he's quite a match for superman...yet.

Something like Onslaught IS tho

Juntai
Originally posted by leonheartmm
r u INSANE, the guy doesnt create pocket dimensions, he created multiple universe without even his own knowledge, he also resurrected galactus, no superman stands a chance. What's he gonna do when Superman thinks all of that mental prowess would be therefor converted into solar energy and sent through a construct amplifier of 3804729087492083749823759823472984 fold and directly into his own person?
With a GL ring, this is pretty much a cheap fight.

Juntai
Originally posted by Space M ummy
Wasn't Manchester Black able to mess with superman's mind?

Franklin isn't just a telepath, he's a reality warper. he's potentially celestial level. He's still a kid, so I don't think he's quite a match for superman...yet.

Something like Onslaught IS tho No, he wasn't, but he was able to attack him telekinetically, until Superman began moving/vibrating at a frequency even Manchester couldn't detect despite his mental prowess.

Superman is faster than thought regardless.
He bumrushes him and smears him across MU-E's planetside.

Juntai
Unless you're talking about Manchester's return when he came back even stronger and had most of DC-Earth's villains with him, and he put up the illusion of killing Lois, which had no effect on Superman at all as he knew it was false. Which isn't really messing with him at all either since he apperently saw through the illusion even though the reader didn't...

Space M ummy
IIRC, Manchester was creating illusions in Superman's mind powerful enough to affect his behavior. (i.e. dead lois)

While it's not technically mind control, it does show superman isn't 100% immune to psionics.

Are you serious about bumrushing Onlslaught?? Onslaught withstood attacks from nearly every significant hero in the Marvel U, and an infinitely angry mindless hulk only cracked his armor because he WANTED him to. He also had no physical form. Go Ahead, bumrush a being of pure psionic energy and see how far that gets you.

Juntai
Originally posted by Space M ummy
IIRC, Manchester was creating illusions in Superman's mind powerful enough to affect his behavior. (i.e. dead lois)

While it's not technically mind control, it does show superman isn't 100% immune to psionics.

Are you serious about bumrushing Onlslaught?? Onslaught withstood attacks from nearly every significant hero in the Marvel U, and an infinitely angry mindless hulk only cracked his armor because he WANTED him to. He also had no physical form. Go Ahead, bumrush a being of pure psionic energy and see how far that gets you. I already covered this Manchester illusion above. Remember what happened when Manchester did project the image of killing Lois..? Superman did nothing. He knew it was fake, as opposed to when he through Ruin, Darkseid etc killed his wife when he was under Max's domination and snapped.

I said he could crack the armor of Onslaught, but he'd have nothing on the energy form underneath save running to the Fortess, but you'd know this if you bothered to even read my posts in the other thread..



And besides all of this
We're talking about Superman 800 centuries stronger than now... and with a GL ring, Magneto's suit and the power crystal of Juggernaught.

Space M ummy
I missed your post on manchester as I was in the middle of typing mine. Point taken.

Onslaught's energy form (hell, probably even his base form) isn't susceptible to physical attack. you can't hurt him that way, so this becomes an argument of could a GL ring powered by a strong enough will overcome onslaught.

That's...debatable.

As for magneto's HELMET blocking psychic attacks- please. it's nowhere near strong enough to block onslaught at full power messing with someone's mind. And assuming it was- onslaught is a beast physically. it's ridiculously simple to destroy it with force alone.

Juggernaut's crystal could even be a liability here. Didn't onslaught psionically rip the gem from juggy's chest, then imprison him IN it?

Juntai
When did this become a vs Onslaught thread?
Fact is, with the GL ring, he could easily crush out solar systems in moments effortlessly. Onslaught isn't much against that. Plus, Hal has made the GL ring make him impervious to mental attacks.. and this was against an opponent who had a whole galaxy under mental dominion. Kyle's held together Supernovas. Time travel. The ring does whatever it's willed to do, provided the wielder has the will to pull it off, and Superman not only has a faster more powerful mind than any current or past GL, but also the universes strongest willpower.l

Space M ummy
I agree, this thread got way offtrack. it was originally superman prime vs. the entire marvel U. (silly)

then we got into debating if any non cosmic entity could take on prime, then prime with the GL ring, etc...

Thinking on the ring's higher level feats, you're probably right. No one single being under skyfather level is going to be able to take on a GL ring with no weaknesses, fueled by (I'm speculating) infinite willpower.

Juntai
Originally posted by Space M ummy
I agree, this thread got way offtrack. it was originally superman prime vs. the entire marvel U. (silly)

then we got into debating if any non cosmic entity could take on prime, then prime with the GL ring, etc...

Thinking on the ring's higher level feats, you're probably right. No one single being under skyfather level is going to be able to take on a GL ring with no weaknesses, fueled by (I'm speculating) infinite willpower. Well, like was said earlier in the thread... the only showings of Superman Prime, he was wielding the GL ring.


Also, unless it's been undone pretty recently, Kyle's ring doesn't exhaust either, since he charged it the power of ION.

leonheartmm
if any1 here believes that superman can beat franklin richards, i suggest u contact a mental institution.

Juntai
Originally posted by leonheartmm
if any1 here believes that superman can beat franklin richards, i suggest u contact a mental institution. Superman Prime with Magneto's mental dampening suit and Juggs Crystal and Green Lantern's ring could easily. It's a pretty heavily weighed in one direction fight. Besides, it's fact that Superman has/can move or vibrate too great of a speed for telepaths to pick up. And the ring can stop any mental attack if told to do so. And this is on top of the other items.

Cosmo Kramer
Superman himself can move so fast that even the greatest heroes of the Avengers wont stop him and he has Magnetos suit. Remember when proffessor Xavior had it? He caused a variety of damage so think about the damage Superman Prime with that suit and Jugg head's crystal that causes even an average human being to be nearly impossible to stop. He will fly around the world knocking building over and kill everyone so quickly and the Marvel Universe will not stop him.

leonheartmm
um, speed doesnt matter, not when ur talkin about beings as strong as franklin, really i suppose than that sperman prime should easily kill dr strange or parallex or sumthin cause they cant THINK that fast, please stop bullshittin, superman prime, for all his power isnt even an insect compared to franklin richards. it was said that superman prime BEACAME the sun itself, meanin he had the vast powers of a star, thas NUTHING compared to the type of power franklkin wield, nd hes not just a psychic hes a reality manipulating GOD. no superman{not even precrisis or prime} with any damn suit can do a thing to touch him.

leonheartmm
actually even on marvel EARTH there are beings who would kill him let alone the larvel universe

franklin
dr strange
sentry
dormammu
zom
etc.

leonheartmm
n yea dark pheonix would also rape him.

brainchild81
Ditto. Even with all of these things Supes would still get his @$$ kicked eventually. Then again, Supes does sustain 4 monthly titles so he wins w/ease. FOUR monthly titles b***hes!!!!

kgkg
Prime is so overrated.

Just going by feats what the best he has done. Beat Solaris?

Big deal, Odin could do it.

Solaris is geniuses like people were saying, and he also tried to Kill Prime to Kryptonite.

It was never even made clear he lost that weakness if someone likes Solaris though he could then.........

Best prime could be is above Odin after than all you have is being with limitless powers anyway.

Cosmo Kramer
Silver Surfer wont beat Superman Prime alone, and Dark Phoenix is about the same thing. So with Juggies crystal he cannot be beaten and Magnetos suit makes .nyone powerful enough to take on an army.

leonheartmm
no dark pheonix is more powerful than superman prime, shes destroyed stars before.

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