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Surfer vs Sentinel

Who wins this one and why?

Current "I'm still pretending i'm human" Alan or "I have merged with a god" Alan.

The latter would own. Not sure about the former.

Well, Alan Scott turned the Starheart energy into an infinite Ring, like Kyle did with the ION power, and turned himself back into a human. lmao. Whack self retcon dealy

If it's current Alan, with only his ring, he goes down, but as he's the most experienced GL ever, he'll give a good fight.
Alan that was the embodiment of the starheart? Alan with ease.

SS

Alan

alan with embodiment of starheart is different why . . .? his power still works on willpower, no?

and give ss's recent power-up, would even the strongest version of alan own him?

i know i know, i don't want to belabor the point, i just REALLY wanna know the justification for alan being considered as powerful as he is.

Originally posted by leonidas
alan with embodiment of starheart is different why . . .? his power still works on willpower, no? As far as willpower goes, Alan is > all other GL's, imo.

Tach on an infinite supply of magical-esque energy for that willpower to manipulate, and . . .

Surfer is not prepared to face the brightest day

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/22-1.jpg

bumpety-bump-bump

Surfer- he can absorb magical energies, yes?

Surfer wins.

Alan wins because of thisOriginally posted by Kris Blaze
Surfer is not prepared to face the brightest day

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/22-1.jpg

Originally posted by iceman24567
Alan wins because of this
Indeed

Originally posted by iceman24567
Alan wins because of this What did he do?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Indeed

Originally posted by quanchi112
What did he do?
From what I saw in that panel, he hadn't done anything yet.

Sentinel wins.

He didn't do anything noteworthy there.

SS wins.

Him just being there is noteworthy

That pic wasn't Sentinel anyway, it was GL Alan. I'm pretty sure that most of the opinions for or against Alan are only partially informed. Also saying that Surfer can control magical energies doesn't mean that he can control magical energies that are already being directed by an iron will. I'd say that Surfer would have no control whatsoever over Alan's energies, since his control would have to be greater than Alan's himself. So in general, I haven't seen a good opinion for either one in this thread.

Didn't Sentinel Allan go for nearly a whole issue against the original ION?

Originally posted by Juntai
Didn't Sentinel Allan go for nearly a whole issue against the original ION?

Damn straight, uphill both ways!

Actually, I don't know, but I'd love to see this question answered.

Originally posted by Digi
Damn straight, uphill both ways!

Actually, I don't know, but I'd love to see this question answered. By saying that, I'm pretty sure he did.
Been a while since I read those issues though.

Um...No, I'm pretty sure they just talked.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Um...No, I'm pretty sure they just talked. In GL 149 volume 3, they just talked, I'm remembering another issue though if my memory is serving me right, I'll see if I can't dig it up, but I have thousands of comics. -.-

Yeah, that's the issue I'm remembering, too. If it happened, cool. I'd love to see it.

I just remember the original Ion stopping a war on one planet and...that's basically it.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Yeah, that's the issue I'm remembering, too. If it happened, cool. I'd love to see it.

I just remember the original Ion stopping a war on one planet and...that's basically it. It might have just been Kyle while his power was spiking immensely during that period but hadn't taken the ION title yet, I dunno, like I said, I'll try to find it sometime.


Well, either way, Sentinel has other impressive showings, like going up against Mordru and nearly defeating him before Mordru took the Starheart from him. Even Ultra-humanite with the 5-d genie powers seemed scared of him, and as soon as he was free, put Ultra-humanite on the ropes.

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/1968/alan15vsobsidian4uo3.jpg

Just his raw power is insane.


Kyle as ION didn't need a lot of feats, and certainly the idea it was only a handful of issues and all says he wouldn't, a lot of it was merely implied, but the idea that he replenished the power Hal had as Parallax and magnified it, speaks volumes, as Hal was on his way to building a new multiverse before he was stopped short. He was telling Hal/Spectre how he could re-write time on a whim.

The Mordru thing wasn't as impressive to me after I saw what Mordru was like without it....He shut himself off from the Starheart's power and got freakin' OWNED by Power Girl.

Originally posted by Juntai
Kyle as ION didn't need a lot of feats, and certainly the idea it was only a handful of issues and all says he wouldn't, a lot of it was merely implied, but the idea that he replenished the power Hal had as Parallax and magnified it, speaks volumes, as Hal was on his way to building a new multiverse before he was stopped short. He was telling Hal/Spectre how he could re-write time on a whim.
Meh. ZH Parallax was amped by....either entropy, or by Time Trapper's stolen power. I can't remember which is was. Now, Final Night Parallax, that was all him...

And meh, it wasn't really re-writing time so much as going back and altering people's decisions. Like WCP's suggestion did with Scott's decision in X-Men.

Originally posted by Enyalus
The Mordru thing wasn't as impressive to me after I saw what Mordru was like without it....He shut himself off from the Starheart's power and got freakin' OWNED by Power Girl. I don't believe Mordru had the power of the Starheart in Infinite Crisis, when he took on the JSA and Nabu, and was crushing them, while his power was severely diminished due to Spectre's war on magic.

He didn't get owned and of course hes not going to be the strongest around physically...hes a ****ing wizard.

Originally posted by Juntai
I don't believe Mordru had the power of the Starheart in Infinite Crisis, when he took on the JSA and Nabu, and was crushing them, while his power was severely diminished due to Spectre's war on magic.
Yeah, I missed those issues, so I haven't seen them at all. I have the Princes of Darkness arc, etc, but not his battles during IC or him getting owned by Shazam, which sucks.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Meh. ZH Parallax was amped by....either entropy, or by Time Trapper's stolen power. I can't remember which is was. Now, Final Night Parallax, that was all him...

And meh, it wasn't really re-writing time so much as going back and altering people's decisions. Like WCP's suggestion did with Scott's decision in X-Men. Final Night is a completely different Parallax so-to-speak, he was at the end of his power. In the finale of Zero Hour, they replaced the drained and defeated Hal in the time-line, who had exerted all of his energy.

Kyle reignited the power when he became ION.

I know all that. uhuh

Originally posted by Enyalus
Yeah, I missed those issues, so I haven't seen them at all. I have the Princes of Darkness arc, etc, but not his battles during IC or him getting owned by Shazam, which sucks. He didn't get owned by Shazam there, he overpowered Shazam's magic and escaped the Rock of Eternity right as Spectre was arriving. Assuming you're talking around in the Crisis time, of course.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I know all that. uhuh Then why would you make a comparison to suggest something like Hal using the very end of his power and dying off is anything remotely resembling ION?

Originally posted by Juntai
He didn't get owned by Shazam there, he overpowered Shazam's magic and escaped the Rock of Eternity right as Spectre was arriving. Assuming you're talking around in the Crisis time, of course.
I am. And like I said, I didn't get those issues, but I had heard that Shazam overpowered Mordru and then kind of...pseudo-beat Spectre (prior to getting killed by him, of course.)

Guess I got told wrong.

Originally posted by Juntai
Then why would you make a comparison to suggest something like Hal using the very end of his power and dying off is anything remotely resembling ION?
I wasn't comparing him to Ion. But Hal at remaking the multiverse levels isn't an accurate depiction of Parallax IMO because he was amped for that feat. By Time Trapper, I think, after he beats him.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I am. And like I said, I didn't get those issues, but I had heard that Shazam overpowered Mordru and then kind of...pseudo-beat Spectre (prior to getting killed by him, of course.)

Guess I got told wrong. Mordru laughed at him and flew away as Gods' vengeance came.

Shazam threw pretty much everything he had at Spectre, and it looked like he downed him, momentarily, before Spectre just stood up and killed him.

People forget that Spectre's physical form and appearance means nothing. He appears to take damage all the time. In one of the volume 3 issue's, a human swings a bat through Corrigan's head that just reconstitutes a moment later.

In another instance, Black Adam flew through his face, and it didn't even slow him down.

It's all just effect.

Originally posted by Juntai
Mordru laughed at him and flew away as Gods' vengeance came.

Shazam threw pretty much everything he had at Spectre, and it looked like he downed him, momentarily, before Spectre just stood up and killed him.
Shazam noted that Spectre's power was completely drained. That's why Spectre had to draw on the Rock's own power and on Shazam's in order to recover and wtfpwn him. IMO, if Spectre could've been killed, bam. It would've. That counts as a win on KMC. So I always saw that battle as one win for Shazam and one win for Spectre.

But that's neither here nor there, I guess.

Anyways surfer has some reading to do.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Anyways surfer has some reading to do.
Maybe.

I still saw Surfer's got more raw power, and just as much finesse.

Meh idk,when as sentinel and not green lantern im hard pressed to remember any instance of alan actually running out of power even after that battle with obsidian where he used the like continent sized blast that stretched deep into space he wasn't tired in the least bit,and of course we have Mister Terrific's statements about if alan lost control and his energy spilled out the entire solar system is likely to be gone.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I wasn't comparing him to Ion. But Hal at remaking the multiverse levels isn't an accurate depiction of Parallax IMO because he was amped for that feat. By Time Trapper, I think, after he beats him. In their second encounter?
Trapper suggested something about Hal needing his power.
But there's no panel suggesting Hal took it, and Hal himself only mentions killing off anyone with with time powers that could stop him.

Either way, that is still "Parallax", as he didn't even introduce himself until after that point. You could possibly say it was "Hal" amped by OA, Time Trapper, etc, etc. But the sum of all those things, was Parallax.

That energy, is what Kyle reignited to become ION.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Meh idk,when as sentinel and not green lantern im hard pressed to remember any instance of alan actually running out of power even after that battle with obsidian where he used the like continent sized blast that stretched deep into space he wasn't tired in the least bit,and of course we have Mister Terrific's statements about if alan lost control and his energy spilled out the entire solar system is likely to be gone.
Surfer destroyed an entire solar system in the Uni-Lord saga. biscuits

Originally posted by Juntai
Either way, that is still "Parallax", as he didn't even introduce himself until after that point. You could possibly say it was "Hal" amped by OA, Time Trapper, etc, etc. But the sum of all those things, was Parallax.
Ah. I knew that he hadn't called himself Parallax yet, but not the rest of that. And since I'm not the DC expert, I'll defer to you and just agree. lol.

If I remember correctly wasn't that with some of uni-lords power?

Originally posted by Enyalus
Surfer destroyed an entire solar system in the Uni-Lord saga. biscuits Superman rubbed his hands together and kept space-time from collapsing on itself.

Originally posted by Juntai
Superman rubbed his hands together and kept space-time from collapsing on itself.

Super friction electricity stuff = ghey.

The Power cosmic is pretty ghey too it's the ultimate plot device kinda like Superman

Originally posted by iceman24567
The Power cosmic is pretty ghey too it's the ultimate plot device kinda like Superman
They don't have Surfer vibrating to save an omniverse that doesn't actually exist.

I dunno, the idea GL's in their better showings, have feats up with Surfer, and that Sentinel, with the internalized power of the Starheart - seemed to be written well above them, gives an idea of where he stands. 5-D Genie powered Humanite and Mordru being put on the ropes against him are decent in evidence.

Looking at the tiers thread, Sentinel is up in Transcendent while Surfer is in High Herald. -- Though I think that and the MA tiers thread are kind of jacked anyways.

Just between you and me, Juntai, I don't think Wolverine is a top tier MA person.






*hides from Jinzin and Battlehammer*

Originally posted by Enyalus
They don't have Surfer vibrating to save an omniverse that doesn't actually exist. Well because of the power cosmic Surfer is always naked so Power cosmic = ghey . Plus the omniverse does exist. What you talkin about Willis?

Originally posted by Enyalus
Just between you and me, Juntai, I don't think Wolverine is a top tier MA person.






*hides from Jinzin and Battlehammer* What he been trained by th best in the wrld he top ranked fghter

Originally posted by Enyalus
They don't have Surfer vibrating to save an omniverse that doesn't actually exist. Of course it exists.
It's just terminology, omni-verse, being all verses, regardless of how big or small.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Well because of the power cosmic Surfer is always naked so Power cosmic = ghey .
You ever tried placing Surfer in clothes? I mean, Keeper looked stupid. The only thing I could figure might look good is some black tight clothing. Like GA Prime, or something.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Plus the omniverse does exist. What you talkin about Willis?
Not back in '98 or whatever when Kelly (?) wrote that issue, lol.

Just stick to reader Mr. Majestic comics before i give ya a pounding not the ghey kind either.

Yessir.

Originally posted by Enyalus

Not back in '98 or whatever when Kelly (?) wrote that issue, lol. The issue I was describing, took place "The Next", which was after Infinite Crisis, iirc.
That wasn't the one where it randomly claimed he saved the omniverse though, but he saved space-time from collapsing.
But as I said, it's just terminology anyways.

Originally posted by Juntai
The issue I was describing, took place "The Next", which was after Infinite Crisis, iirc.
That wasn't the one where it randomly claimed he saved the omniverse though, but he saved space-time from collapsing.
But as I said, it's just terminology anyways.
I know what you were talking about.

Do you remember the issue that I'm referring to, when somekind of race used a vibrational device that would have collapsed space-time, and Superman went out, matched and counter the vibrational frequency, which led to a general back in Washington (Not Lane, surely?) that "Superman saved the omniverse."

shrug

Originally posted by Enyalus
I know what you were talking about.

Do you remember the issue that I'm referring to, when somekind of race used a vibrational device that would have collapsed space-time, and Superman went out, matched and counter the vibrational frequency, which led to a general back in Washington (Not Lane, surely?) that "Superman saved the omniverse."

shrug Yep. I remember.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I know what you were talking about.

Do you remember the issue that I'm referring to, when somekind of race used a vibrational device that would have collapsed space-time, and Superman went out, matched and counter the vibrational frequency, which led to a general back in Washington (Not Lane, surely?) that "Superman saved the omniverse."

shrug

AOS 617.

Originally posted by -Pr-
AOS 617. lmao.

Originally posted by -Pr-
AOS 617.
Oh, wow, that far back?

You know too much Superman.


EDIT: Meh, ignore that. I read it as "AC 617", which would've been what, 1989 or something?

Originally posted by Enyalus
Oh, wow, that far back?

You know too much Superman.


EDIT: Meh, ignore that. I read it as "AC 617", which would've been what, 1989 or something? August 2003 @ AOS.
Which I believe while Hypertime was still all over DC stories.

Originally posted by Juntai
lmao.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Oh, wow, that far back?

You know too much Superman.


EDIT: Meh, ignore that. I read it as "AC 617", which would've been what, 1989 or something?