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Just out of curiosity since this has apparently come up again... Invisible Woman vs these telepaths... at the same time. The telepaths have been stripped of all their non-telepathic powers.

Telepaths
Cassandra Nova
Charles Xavier
Darkseid
Emma Frost
Hector Hammond
Legion
Manchester Black
Martian Manhunter
Moondragon
Nate Grey
(Old) Psylocke
Rachel Summers
The Stepford Cuckoos
and special guest, Dr. Strange.

vs

Invisible Woman

A bit overkill...Strange could clearly beat her all by himself.

but what about her supposed shields that block anything and everything and never cave? i mean, you've said that telepaths are incapable of getting through her shields.

i'm not sure, wynn, but i THINK this may be a sarcastic thread dots

oh, and about strange -- agatha harkness is clearly not in his league, but sue was kicking her arse in a fight they had. it seems her shields are also proof against at least a certain level of magic. . .

when did they fight? id so love to see that

You don't like IW much do you. Poor Sue and just think about the rest of the F4 Ben, Johnny, Reed and Franklin think of the children will you please think of the children.cry rip

in the issue where nathanieal was trying to take young franklin. it was somewhere around #380. i really don't feel like digging out the exact issue. sorry sf.

but it was pretty cool. nathaniel seemed to think agatha would fall quickly to a po'd sue.

did she fall quickly?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Just out of curiosity since this has apparently come up again... Invisible Woman vs these telepaths... at the same time. The telepaths have been stripped of all their non-telepathic powers.

Telepaths
Cassandra Nova
Charles Xavier
Darkseid
Emma Frost
Hector Hammond
Legion
Manchester Black
Martian Manhunter
Moondragon
Nate Grey
(Old) Psylocke
Rachel Summers
The Stepford Cuckoos
and special guest, Dr. Strange.

vs

Invisible Woman

Xmarks, you're my hero.

Any one of these opponents using just their psychic attacks will win against IW simply because they can attack faster than she.

nathaniel got frank out of there before sue finished her off. they ARE good friends. but sue was kicking her butt.

Originally posted by stormfront13
but what about her supposed shields that block anything and everything and never cave? i mean, you've said that telepaths are incapable of getting through her shields.

Whats ur point? I said tp doesnt get through her shields because it doesnt, not because I was making it up. If an X-Man loses to an F4 member u dont have to be a douche just cuz it makes u mad.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Xmarks, you're my hero.

Any one of these opponents using just their psychic attacks will win against IW simply because they can attack faster than she.

The only one faster is MM...the U realize IW has more combat experience than every member of the X-Men save Wolverine? She isnt slow at all...I laugh when I imagine what she would do to most of those people.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Whats ur point? I said tp doesnt get through her shields because it doesnt, not because I was making it up. If an X-Man loses to an F4 member u dont have to be a douche just cuz it makes u mad.

then why'd you say she loses? if she is immune to tp, and she can move faster than telepathy, then how does she lose? in your words, she is able to react fast enough to block any telepathy.

Originally posted by Wynndar
A bit overkill...Strange could clearly beat her all by himself. With just telepathy? But she'll just block it out...Originally posted by Marvel=DC
You don't like IW much do you. Poor Sue and just think about the rest of the F4 Ben, Johnny, Reed and Franklin think of the children will you please think of the children.cry rip I know... nobody ever thinks of the children. And it's not that I don't like Suzy I'm just trying to ascertain something... call it an experiment if you will.

Originally posted by Wynndar
The only one faster is MM...the U realize IW has more combat experience than every member of the X-Men save Wolverine? She isnt slow at all...I laugh when I imagine what she would do to most of those people. MM has been stripped of all non-telepathic powers, he has no superspeed in this. Does Sue?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
With just telepathy? But she'll just block it out...I know... nobody ever thinks of the children. And it's not that I don't like Suzy I'm just trying to ascertain something... call it an experiment if you will.


Well some people do Sally Struthers, Catholic Priest, etc

Well maybe there's an arguement that the combined psionic power of all these people could pass her field. Yet she's never been ganged up on by 20 tp's before. Otherwise, its clear that they cant get through.

how about you show the rest of the comic? ive never seen it but that one pic proves nothing....anyones first reaction would be to push against it...where does it show her trying to use telepathy??

So assuming that all reaction times are equal, since I've removed speedier characters like MM's superspeed, leaving aside being able to block it which is still relatively ambiguous - you still maintain that Sue is faster than telepathy?
Originally posted by Blair Wind
how about you show the rest of the comic? ive never seen it but that one pic proves nothing....anyones first reaction would be to push against it...where does it show her trying to use telepathy?? I think that image is from the period where she had no telepathy?

I dont own the comic, Im just taking the pics from another thread

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I think that image is from the period where she had no telepathy?

then thats even worse....it proves NOTHING at all.......

Originally posted by Wynndar
I dont own the comic, Im just taking the pics from another thread

do you have the pic from right before that? I want to know what there talking about

I'll clarify. That's from the issue where she was first retrieved from her caccoon where the PF placed her original body. She came out and thought the FF/Avengers were Skrulls and owned everybody but IW. When Jean calmed down, she revealed that she lost her telepathic powers.

So the answer is NO - she had NO telepathic powers.

Therefore that pic proves absolutely nothing.

Never post something if you don't know what it is. You do a disservice to the comics community.

About the fight - every telepath on there wins.

Originally posted by demigawd
I'll clarify. That's from the issue where she was first retrieved from her caccoon where the PF placed her original body. She came out and thought the FF/Avengers were Skrulls and owned everybody but IW. When Jean calmed down, she revealed that she lost her telepathic powers.

So the answer is NO - she had NO telepathic powers.

Therefore that pic proves absolutely nothing.

Never post something if you don't know what it is. You do a disservice to the comics community.

About the fight - every telepath on there wins.

thank you....so that would mean as powerful as sue is (and i admit she is VERY powerful) against a telepath she is just like anyone else....she loses hardcore here, and any other fight with a telepath...

Actually, she thought everyone was one of Lang's robots. Jean's last memory was being on the space station fighting Lang and his sentinels before she was placed in suspended animation for several years. Jean said that Lang was getting sloppy in his programming because Sue was referring to herself as the Invisible Woman by that point.

And I take exception to the notion that Sue has more combat experience than any of the X-Men. F4 started, what, a year before the X-Men? Let's not discount the fact that Jean spent twelve years in the future raising Nathan. That's just one example. We won't even get into those time travelling Grey-Summers children...

<<thank you....so that would mean as powerful as sue is (and i admit she is VERY powerful) against a telepath she is just like anyone else....she loses hardcore her, and any other fight with a telepath...>>

prove she CAN'T stop tp.

fact is ff rarely fight telepathic foes, so there are not many scenarios available from which to pick. in each case where she HAS come up against psionic opponents/energy, she HAS been able to block it. i know demi doesn't LIKE the examples, yet they are there nonetheless.

where are they? all i have been given to see is
1) where Jean has NO telepathy
2) where a person uses a tech device.....
but thats a debate that is pointless because it goes in circles....it cannot be solved until it happens....however since we dont have proof, and no where in her powers has anyone been given the slightest bit of knowledge that she does have those powers, we can naturally only assume that she cant....until proven otherwise....

To be fair, that's actually a good feat for IW - she showed that she can block telekinesis and that Jean was unable to respond. Jean is far more powerful now, of course (and has telepathy). You can also argue that IW is more powerful too. I would be interested in seeing IW vs. Current Psylocke

IW had a shield up and Emma was still able to telepathically intrude on her mind.

Onslaught didn't have any trouble getting inside Sue's head, either.

And prove Superman doesn't have teleportational powers.

See the problem here? It's not our job to prove she DOESN'T have a power. It's your job to prove she does.

Originally posted by demigawd
You do a disservice to the comics community.



That's some feat.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
That's some feat.

Uh oh, the Silver Surfer is here. That means Galactus is sure to follow. Let me get my Ultimate Nullifier ready...

Originally posted by demigawd
Uh oh, the Silver Surfer is here. That means Galactus is sure to follow. Let me get my Ultimate Nullifier ready...

I imagine the humour buried deep therein relates to the fact that you fail to spot the flow of group dynamics?

Or perhaps it's that you just made a joke to which the punchline was using the Ultimate Nullifier.

The latter, definitely. Been lookin for an excuse for years....

I imagine it was a bit of an anti-climax.

Not so much.

Originally posted by demigawd
Not so much.

It's time to dream the dream then bud.

Originally posted by demigawd
IW had a shield up and Emma was still able to telepathically intrude on her mind.

Onslaught didn't have any trouble getting inside Sue's head, either.

And prove Superman doesn't have teleportational powers.

See the problem here? It's not our job to prove she DOESN'T have a power. It's your job to prove she does.

U dont know anything about IW, her shields are specific...not generic. Emma got in her through a shield which im not even sure surrounded her body, meant to seperate WOLVERINE?

She can block TP

When did Onslaught get in her head? Onslaught used TP to make himself invisible yet IW was able to make him visible? Here u go again misconstruing the facts.

She can block telepathy based on WHAT? Everything IW fanboys named was shot down as being false or misleading. The Psi-lord issue had her invading someone's mind as well as blocking a telepathic attack. it's PIS because Sue doesn't have telepathic powers - she can't enter anybody's mind. If she did that in an issue, then it's PIS. And that includes blocking telepathy.

Nobody believes she can block TP but you. And Leon. And even he says that whole thing is muddy because of Malace.

I thought this was nipped in the bud already...

Perhaps the whole "No, I'm in YOUR head" was her using his telepathy against him.

<<See the problem here? It's not our job to prove she DOESN'T have a power. It's your job to prove she does.>>

why is your claim she can't less susceptible to the burden of proof than ours that she can?

i've showed she CAN vblock aspects of psionic energy. it is an assumption on everyone else's part that somehow tp psionic energy is different from other energy. for your part, you've given no evidence she can't. SOME evidence>no evidence.

at best, the thing that can be concluded is that the whole thing is inconclusive. you can no more prove she can't than we can that she can.

So she blocks tp but its PIS now? *shaking head* And he says we are the fanboys...

Even though Jean may not have had tp in that instance, isnt it curious how her powers were just shut down by IW's field? She was pushing TK energy against IW's field...her powers were just shut down or the field was purely immune to it. TK is still a form of psionic energy...if her TK couldnt get through her tp would probably be shut down just as well. And then there's Psi-Lord...and the Watchers too...I think its evident that the field can filter just about any form of energy if she tries.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Onslaught used TP to make himself invisible yet IW was able to make him visible? Here u go again misconstruing the facts.
Did Onslaught use telepathy to make himself invisible ? I just thought he, you know, "made" himself invisible, no telepathy.

And when attacking the FF (and some X-Men and Avengers), Onslaught used a telepathic attack to take everybody out, even though everybody was prepared for an attack.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Even though Jean may not have had tp in that instance, isnt it curious how her powers were just shut down by IW's field? She was pushing TK energy against IW's field...her powers were just shut down or the field was purely immune to it. TK is still a form of psionic energy...if her TK couldnt get through her tp would probably be shut down just as well.
That was a very very confused Jean against a ready to fight IW.

(Don't get me wrong, IW > Jean).

Originally posted by Smaxxer
Did Onslaught use telepathy to make himself invisible ? I just thought he, you know, "made" himself invisible, no telepathy.

And when attacking the FF (and some X-Men and Avengers), Onslaught used a telepathic attack to take everybody out, even though everybody was prepared for an attack.

Onslaught was going around four freedoms tower using tp to make illusions when people tried to fight him. i.e. people thought they were fighting him when he wasnt actually there. He even admitted himself that he couldnt beat Lyja with tp because of her unfamiliar alien mind. Im not sure "invisibility" is one of Onslaught's powers...

I dont think this proves anything concerning what IW can do to a telepath...Im just saying what happened...she removed the illusion that he wasnt there and Bishop was able to attack him directly.

Originally posted by Wynndar
So she blocks tp but its PIS now? *shaking head* And he says we are the fanboys...

Even though Jean may not have had tp in that instance, isnt it curious how her powers were just shut down by IW's field? She was pushing TK energy against IW's field...her powers were just shut down or the field was purely immune to it. TK is still a form of psionic energy...if her TK couldnt get through her tp would probably be shut down just as well.

probably? thats an assumption....we cant base anything on that....TK and TP are two different things....

I know this is a bump and a half but I came across this looking for some mislplaced scans...and this really bugged me...so here:

Sue has a shield surrounding her team...from Wolverine and Storm..

http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/9173/xmenfantasticfour012005teamdcppg15pa4.th.jpg

Granted this thread should be more of a Gauntlet then a Team vs Sue fight...cause I don't enjoy watching Sue get thrashed..

Oh yes IW's shields are impregnable

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j165/A_Flight10/FantasticFour169-11.jpg

{not to be taken serious, so don't piss and moan, but yes it's canon}