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Im not sure if a similar thread has been discussed but i'd like to get peoples opinions on the following......

Yoda is considered one of the greatest saberists ever as is count dooku, mace windu and palpatine.

Mace Windu is said to be "one with his saber" but historically been bested by only two other's, (yoda and dooku).

Nick Gillard in an interview/doc said somthing along the lines that Palpatine is the greatest/fastest saberist ever.

Mace Windu beat Palpatine in their saber duel, yet yoda and palpatine seemed very much equal in their duel, as did yoda and dooku (although i think yoda had upper hand in that one).

Anakin beat Dooku but couldn't "out right" beat ObiWan in their duels (episode 3-4).

Does this mean that Anakin and ObiWan are the best saberists at the end of Episode 3, because they bested Dooku who bested Mace who bested Palpatine who was equal to Yoda????

Ok its obvious its not as straight forward as that, because different duels had different situations and circumstances etc etc and styles of fighting etc etc and emotions etc etc

But really, i love the triangles or so to speak here......

what are your thoughts?

ok well for one this when does dooku beat mace because unless it is eu i have yet to see this.

the reason anakin couldnt flat out kick obiwans ass i because. 1.they knew eachothers styles all to well.2.obiwans style is more defensive and allowed him to wait for anakin to make a mistake or do something stupid(which he did).

and as for mace beating palps the way i saw it is that he didnt just let mace win but more didnt go all out so he would give ani the chance to kill mace so thus he could turn him to the darkside.

Originally posted by Dr.Gumby
ok well for one this when does dooku beat mace because unless it is eu i have yet to see this.

the reason anakin couldnt flat out kick obiwans ass i because. 1.they knew eachothers styles all to well.2.obiwans style is more defensive and allowed him to wait for anakin to make a mistake or do something stupid(which he did).

and as for mace beating palps the way i saw it is that he didnt just let mace win but more didnt go all out so he would give ani the chance to kill mace so thus he could turn him to the darkside.


we got a winner

i think the stuff about mace being bested by yoda and dooku are somewhere in the databanks/character profiles (not the films), im not exactly sure where.

i know the reasons behind anakin/obiwan duel thats why in my post i mentioned fighting styles/emotions etc. you just repeated what i said there.

i guess the fight between mace and palpatine will always be up for debate untill lucas himself tells it how it is.......but having seen the action in the movie, read the novel and viewed the databanks everything suggests to me that mace won the saber fight with palpatine.....ultimately palpatine provokes mace into trying to kill him in front of anakin but as we see in the movie mace disarms palpatine a good few seconds before anakin is even in the corridor leading to the room they're in.

you might say palpatine had to prolong the fight untill anakin arrived, but he could have simply lost his saber once anakin was in the room and then act helpless as the end result would remain the same (anakin needing palpatine alive).

some might say palpatine needed to get rid of his saber before anakin arrived......this wouldn't make a difference either as in the novel the same scene is described differently from the movie where anakin witnesses mace and palpatine having a saber duel.

anyway thats leading away from the original post......my question was....based on those duelists info would you say anakin and obiwan are the best of the whole lot at the end of episode 3?

The Starwars.com databank says in Windu's profile that only Dooku and Yoda have bested him, I think.

And then, the Palpatine argument of 'He let Mace win!' or 'He lost fair and square!'

But no, Anakin and Obi-Wan were not the best. They were damned good, but not the best. According to Lucas, Anakin beat Dooku fair and square, Dooku having not tried in the beginning, knocking down Obi-Wan, then having to kick it up a notch when Anakin started beating him, then losing because it was already too late in the fight, but that is probably because of how Dooku approached the fight.

I don't see Anakin beating Windu or Yoda in a straight fight, do you?

Do remember that sword fights are like tennis matches. The best person does not always win.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Do remember that sword fights are like tennis matches. The best person does not always win.

very good point.

Originally posted by Lightning_Count
similar thread has been discussed

i saw something where Nick Gilliard said Anakin was a level 9 and OB1 was a level 8, but anakin was fighting out of emotion rather than one with the force. Palps let mace win for ani's benefit, and ani beat dooku quite easily and fair and square, which leads me to believe that Anakin could quite possibly be the best swordsman in the galaxy. If he had jumper to the side of OB1 instead of right above him...he would eventually killed OB1, imo. But we'll never know for sure and its all up to our imagination and speculation.

I think Obi Wan seemed to handle Anakin pretty fairly well. The deleted scenes that lucas alludes too, but won't let us see for some reason, have a moment when obi coiuld have killed anakin, and doesn't do it. Anakin almost died on the steel arm as it went over the lava-fall, but barely escaped that. This may just be me, but Obi-wan had that fight the whole time. Yoda seemed to dominate Palpatine after the initial surprise too. Palpatine was fighting for his life. What's kinda of annoying is we have no idea how Yoda got to be at the bottem of the arena dodging flying pods, and Sidious was on top throwing them. It seemed like Yoda was pretty much pounding sidious before that (won 3 saberlocks, and was attacking while sidious was defending) I dunno, it always bothered me that the next thing we see is Yoda hopping around for his life.

^^ agreed....that's how I kinda saw it too.

Obi-wan was very focused while Anakin was just blind mad.
Yoda started off well until he was at the bottom.. then Palpatine took on the offensive..really wanna know what happened.

Wouldn't the point that Obi-Wan becomes one with the force when he fights add something to his fighting, or make him a better duelist?

Originally posted by Captain REX
The Starwars.com databank says in Windu's profile that only Dooku and Yoda have bested him, I think.

And then, the Palpatine argument of 'He let Mace win!' or 'He lost fair and square!'

But no, Anakin and Obi-Wan were not the best. They were damned good, but not the best. According to Lucas, Anakin beat Dooku fair and square, Dooku having not tried in the beginning, knocking down Obi-Wan, then having to kick it up a notch when Anakin started beating him, then losing because it was already too late in the fight, but that is probably because of how Dooku approached the fight.

I don't see Anakin beating Windu or Yoda in a straight fight, do you?


Anakin is a Level 9 and defeated Dooku.

Although I didn't see Dooku trying all too much and I noticed him smiling during the Duel. Kind of Weird. Not to mention Anakin had to physically grab him in order to defeat him.

Dooku was an extremely powerful Man and has been said to have a possibility of defeating Windu in LS-2-LS combat so Anakin might have been capable of defeating Mace.

As long as we all know that Obi Wan was pwned by Count Dooku. (pointing at the creator of this thread)

Originally posted by overlord
As long as we all know that Obi Wan was pwned by Count Dooku. (pointing at the creator of this thread)

It's funny.... Every character Kenobi fought, he killed. But when it came to Dooku, he was unable to defeat him.

Yeah, like how he killed Durge, Asaaj, and Anakin when he fought them.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Anakin is a Level 9 and defeated Dooku.

Although I didn't see Dooku trying all too much and I noticed him smiling during the Duel. Kind of Weird. Not to mention Anakin had to physically grab him in order to defeat him.

Dooku was an extremely powerful Man and has been said to have a possibility of defeating Windu in LS-2-LS combat so Anakin might have been capable of defeating Mace. Level 9?

Sorry... It's Nick Gillard's Duel Ability Ranking System. Apparently, Anakin's dueling skills were on par with Mace's, Yoda's and Dooku's.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Anakin is a Level 9 and defeated Dooku.

Although I didn't see Dooku trying all too much and I noticed him smiling during the Duel. Kind of Weird. Not to mention Anakin had to physically grab him in order to defeat him.

Dooku was an extremely powerful Man and has been said to have a possibility of defeating Windu in LS-2-LS combat so Anakin might have been capable of defeating Mace.

what are you talking about dooku smiling? he doesn't smile, not many people would be smiling while a younger faster and better saberist is pounding the crap outta you, which is why dooku doesn't smile

as for grabbing him...everything goes man, if you think for some reason that physical contact is something that means you arnt as good then your wrong. that would then mean that mace "beating" palpatine didn't REALLY count since he kicked him. and anakin and obi beat the crap outta each other in ther fight.

fact is dooku got pWned by anakin

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
what are you talking about dooku smiling? he doesn't smile, not many people would be smiling while a younger faster and better saberist is pounding the crap outta you, which is why dooku doesn't smile

as for grabbing him...everything goes man, if you think for some reason that physical contact is something that means you arnt as good then your wrong. that would then mean that mace "beating" palpatine didn't REALLY count since he kicked him. and anakin and obi beat the crap outta each other in ther fight.

fact is dooku got pWned by anakin

Dooku was smiling throughout parts of their duel during... Y'know.... The Episode III Movie.

Mace might of kicked him because he knew he might not be able to might over him using just his sword. The same thing applies with Anakin.

If you cannot use your sword properly to disarm someone and have to take both of your arms and push down on a seventy-something year old mans arms, then you know you have not won a fair Sword Fight.


Besides, there was Circumstance to their fight. He wasn't doing his best for some reason.