Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Marvel has 1 month of prep. Spectre has none.

Team Marvel:

The Vishanti(All 3 of them)
The Keeper
Dr. Strange
Talisman(Alpha Flight)
Rune King Thor
Rachel Summers(Phoenix)

VS.

Current Spectre(Rogue)

Battle takes place within the realm of the Vishanti. Agamotto's realm.

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
Marvel has 1 month of prep. Spectre has none.

Team Marvel:

The Vishanti(All 3 of them)
The Keeper
Dr. Strange
Talisman(Alpha Flight)
Rune King Thor
Rachel Summers(Phoenix)

VS.

Current Spectre(Rogue)

Battle takes place within the realm of the Vishanti. Agamotto's realm.

any one of the Vishanti would give Spectre battle without Prep.

Prep isn't much of an issue.

in their realm they are all.

Spectre wins Agommoto cant even beat Galactus and i belive Spectre is even more powerful then Galactus.

Originally posted by Mider
Spectre wins Agommoto cant even beat Galactus and i belive Spectre is even more powerful then Galactus.

Seems like youre bumping all the Spectre threads, lol.

Marvel team's gotta win. All that power and prep.

i dont think marvel can win not even all dc's magic could take down the spectre from what ive heard

Spectre in current mode wins easily.
He can absorb magic from anything.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Spectre in current mode wins easily.
He can absorb magic from anything.

And what's this I heard from Longpig about a hooker stealing Specte's power?

He's beating Talisman and Dr. Strange alright. Rune King Thor is going to give him trouble. Spectre 7/10.

Keeper and Rachael ain't magic. He's beating Keeper through raw power. Against Rachael, not sure but Spectre couldn't take her. Phoenix is overrated. Rachael Summers is between Galactus and Cube Beings.

As for the Vishanti, Shazam is not on their level. He's around skyfather.

Against an entire team in Agamotto's realm, the team stomps him. Obsorbing power from Shazam isn't the same is that from Strange, a top tier skyfather, and 3 Galactus level mystics.

None of these guys rank near Spectre in power, he'll play with them for a minute, then comes the 5 panel "I am the wrath of God, the one who created all and you all but insects before my power." monologue, and it's over in an instant.

Originally posted by Beyonder
And what's this I heard from Longpig about a hooker stealing Specte's power?

He's beating Talisman and Dr. Strange alright. Rune King Thor is going to give him trouble. Spectre 7/10.

Keeper and Rachael ain't magic. He's beating Keeper through raw power. Against Rachael, not sure but Spectre couldn't take her. Phoenix is overrated. Rachael Summers is between Galactus and Cube Beings.

As for the Vishanti, Shazam is not on their level. He's around skyfather.

Against an entire team in Agamotto's realm, the team stomps him. Obsorbing power from Shazam isn't the same is that from Strange, a top tier skyfather, and 3 Galactus level mystics.

Difference.

You're using ridiculous hearsay, and I have the comic where he says and shows he can do exactly what he said.

Rogue Spectre IS NOT omni-powerful!

Black Alice OWNED him...no matter how short or how long she, with her 19 years of being alive, was able to contain it, she owned him.

Now, yes, she was a plot device, but you're putting him up against people who have more plot devices than you can poke a homosexual stick at.

He will not win this under these circumstances.

Is that why he is currently running around unchecked?

plot divices are rediculous i mean one moment the bands of cytorrak can hold galactus and the next namor breaks them?!?!?! i mean i dont know why on earth they would let the spectre be defeated even for a second thats pretty dumb i mean even joker didnt defeat him with raw power but outsmarted him who is the spectres host these days? i mean if you can get rid of the host you yourself will become the spectre wont you? i dont think these guys can defeat the spectre i mean he defeated all the magic in DC what are these guys going to do?

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Is that why he is currently running around unchecked?
P I S.

He isn't capable of it without permission from God. He's only been shown to be able to do it out of PIS to make the Crisis story.

I mean, really...he was owned by Black Alice.

Originally posted by long pig
P I S.

He isn't capable of it without permission from God. He's only been shown to be able to do it out of PIS to make the Crisis story.

I mean, really...he was owned by Black Alice.

Who's to say that wasn't PIS. Similar to Strange hiding from the Infinity Gauntlet.

The fact is, he's whoopin' everyone right about now.

Originally posted by long pig
P I S.

He isn't capable of it without permission from God. He's only been shown to be able to do it out of PIS to make the Crisis story.

I mean, really...he was owned by Black Alice. Like Dr Stange owned King Thor?




Either way, he was not defeated and still has not been defeated.
Fact is, he's proved many times he can defeat gods with punches and flashes of light

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Difference.

You're using ridiculous hearsay, and I have the comic where he says and shows he can do exactly what he said.

Which one? The one where he has trouble with Shazam, only won once he started absorbing his magic?

Proves what? That he can take beings above Shazam in power and magic (except Strange and Talisman)?

Shazam ain't Galactus level. The guy even borrows powers from other gods. Agamotto, Oshtur, and Hoggoth each around Galactus level and lend out magic.

Beating Shazam and a few low ranking Lords of Chaos and Order doesn't stack up against the Vishanti, Phoenix, and Rune Thor all at once.



Which gods are we talking about again? Maybe you can name them. I can say gods as well: Thor, Kalibak, Loki, Orion.

Originally posted by Beyonder
Which one? The one where he has trouble with Shazam, only won once he started absorbing his magic?

Proves what? That he can take beings above Shazam in power and magic (except Strange and Talisman)?

Shazam ain't Galactus level. The guy even borrows powers from other gods. Agamotto, Oshtur, and Hoggoth each around Galactus level and lend out magic.

Beating Shazam and a few low ranking Lords of Chaos and Order doesn't stack up against the Vishanti, Phoenix, and Rune Thor all at once.



Which gods are we talking about again? Maybe you can name them. I can say gods as well: Thor, Kalibak, Loki, Orion.

Koth-Shugoth an elder God from the previous universe, for example, who was going destroy the entire third dimension. A feat far above Loki, Kalibak, Thor and Orion could ever do.
He also defeated Anti Monitor.
Monsueir Stigmonus.
Azmodus.
Parallax.
He erased Darkseid from history, then remade him.
He's destroyed or recreated the universe many times.
Spectre clearly outranks the people named, save maybe Pheonix who has rarely if ever shown any combat power worthy of mention, even Professor X had shut down Pheonix with a simple mental attack..

Originally posted by Beyonder
Which one? The one where he has trouble with Shazam, only won once he started absorbing his magic?

Proves what? That he can take beings above Shazam in power and magic (except Strange and Talisman)?

Shazam ain't Galactus level. The guy even borrows powers from other gods. Agamotto, Oshtur, and Hoggoth each around Galactus level and lend out magic.

Beating Shazam and a few low ranking Lords of Chaos and Order doesn't stack up against the Vishanti, Phoenix, and Rune Thor all at once.

Yup, the one where he said he can absorb magic from anything. Juntai did a fine example with the rest. He's even left the imps powerless right now and is running around unchecked. Permission or not, he's still the manifestation of God's wrath.

Originally posted by Juntai
Koth-Shugoth an elder God from the previous universe, for example, who was going destroy the entire third dimension. A feat far above Loki, Kalibak, Thor and Orion could ever do.
He also defeated Anti Monitor.
Monsueir Stigmonus.
Parallax.
He erased Darkseid from history, then remade him.
He's destroyed or recreated the universe many times.
Spectre clearly outranks the people named, save maybe Pheonix who has rarely if ever shown any combat power worthy of mention, even Professor X had shut down Pheonix with a simple mental attack..And didn't King Thor get his power stripped by Dr Strange a magic wielder no where near the level of Spectre?

People are quick to look for any inconsistencies for DC characters, but apparently are much more forgiving of marvels.

Amazing how that works eh?

Originally posted by Juntai
even Professor X had shut down Pheonix with a simple mental attack..

Nope. Prof X never shut down Phoenix with a simple mental attack. Prof X along with the help of the Jean Grey persona helped re-establish the psychic circuit breakers which Phoenix erected around her power after the M'kraan incident. The breakdown of these barriers was the main cause for Dark Phoenix. With the Jean personas help he cut off the power again by fixing the barriers the entity had placed around the power.

In a What If Xavier attempted to repeat the same process on Dark Phoenix and failed because Jean actually wanted the power.

Either way this is about Rachel is it not? Shes far less powerful and relatively inexperienced.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
People are quick to look for any inconsistencies for DC characters, but apparently are much more forgiving of marvels.

Amazing how that works eh? Well what gets me is when people try to use the inconsistancies as battle references. Don't get me wrong DC fans on here do at times too. Normally, I won't take them into consideration as far as the battle goes, because a lot of character/power inconsistancies in both universes are just plain rediculous. It just bugs me when people bring them up out of spite. Truth is, threads against people like Spectre shouldn't really exist with any arguement as to who would win. Even though I do like discussing him a lot as he's one of my favorite characters; but without extreme PIS/CIS/Plot devices, you simply can't beat characters like that and it's kinda dull.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Nope. Prof X never shut down Phoenix with a simple mental attack. Prof X along with the help of the Jean Grey persona helped re-establish the psychic circuit breakers which Phoenix erected around her power after the M'kraan incident. The breakdown of these barriers was the main cause for Dark Phoenix. With the Jean personas help he cut off the power again by fixing the barriers the entity had placed around the power.

In a What If Xavier attempted to repeat the same process on Dark Phoenix and failed because Jean actually wanted the power.

Either way this is about Rachel is it not? Shes far less powerful and relatively inexperienced. Details details, I was purposely making the claim sound as rediclous as the other claims, man.

And What If's don't count. Like Wolverine shanking Surfer.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Nope. Prof X never shut down Phoenix with a simple mental attack. Prof X along with the help of the Jean Grey persona helped re-establish the psychic circuit breakers which Phoenix erected around her power after the M'kraan incident. The breakdown of these barriers was the main cause for Dark Phoenix. With the Jean personas help he cut off the power again by fixing the barriers the entity had placed around the power.

In a What If Xavier attempted to repeat the same process on Dark Phoenix and failed because Jean actually wanted the power.

Either way this is about Rachel is it not? Shes far less powerful and relatively inexperienced.

hush

The Spectre destroys the Marvel group in this thread.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
hush

The Spectre destroys the Marvel group in this thread.



Never claimed otherwise.

Try reading posts mate.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Never claimed otherwise my friend.

Try reading posts mate.

hush Yours was hilarious

I did

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
hush Yours was hilarious

I did


U replied as if i was casting a vote in this thread.

I wasnt.

I take it youre still hurting after your flop spite thread.

Im ever so sorry mate.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
U replied as if i was casting a vote in this thread.

I wasnt.

I take it youre still hurting after your flop spite thread.

Im ever so sorry mate.

Not really my thread just showed the truth of this post below, I was just laughing at how excited your post got when you thought someone was dissing Phoenix.


Originally posted by leonidas
gs sayeth:

<<. . . convince me and whoever else is reading that these notions are nothing but your opinion on how things should be.>>

somewhere sir whirly is laughing himself drunk at the irony. . .



Learn to use smilies with style, you always seem to be using them in a manic uncontrolled fashion.

Keep the faith

Stay Whirly

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Not really my thread just showed the truth of this post below, I was just laughing at how excited your post got when you thought someone was dissing Phoenix.

Whatever you say my friend. Thats why you follow me around threads in an attempt to troll me into submission. One would think by your age you would have learned how to deal with defeat a tad more gracefully. Never mind.



Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Learn to use smilies with style, you always seem to be using them in a manic uncontrolled fashion.

How very pretentious old man and quite laughable coming from yourself

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Keep the faith

One would be very misguided to so indeed.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Learn to use smilies with style, you always seem to be using them in a manic uncontrolled fashion.


ahaha. He's got you there, GS.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Whatever you say my friend. Thats why you follow me around threads in an attempt to troll me into submission. One would think by your age you would have learned how to deal with defeat a tad more gracefully. Never mind.



GS stop playing the victim and talking about me following you round, if you can't handle debate then go off and sulk for a few weeks again.

I've told you before GS in my opinion no one wins or loses or really cares on forums who is sane, so the facct you want to believe you defeated me, "in my opinion" (learn how to say this) it is obviously in your mind (as in my opinion are many things that are not supported by evidence).


Originally posted by Arabian Knight
ahaha. He's got you there, GS.


thank you Longpig (yes I know who you are mate)


Keep the faith


Stay Whirly

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
GS stop playing the victim and talking about me following you round, if you can't handle debate then go off and sulk for a few weeks again.

I've told you before GS in my opinion no one wins or loses or really cares on forums who is sane, so the facct you want to believe you defeated me, "in my opinion" (learn how to say this) it is obviously in your mind (as in my opinion are many things that are not supported by evidence).



thank you Longpig (yes I know who you are mate)


Keep the faith


Stay Whirly
And ya didn't even have to Whois me!

The Spectre wins, but then again we all knew that

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
hush

The Spectre destroys the Marvel group in this thread.



Yeah till Batman comes....

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Yup, the one where he said he can absorb magic from anything. Juntai did a fine example with the rest. He's even left the imps powerless right now and is running around unchecked. Permission or not, he's still the manifestation of God's wrath.

Obviously not anything if he got his own powers stolen.

And he said what he said, I still don't see how Shazam who borrows powers from other beings can even be compared to the Vishanti. Shazam's peers are Ganthet, Highfather, and Zeus. That's like saying beating Odin or Zuras would be the same as beating Galactus. Odin and the Uni-Mind couldn't even affect a Celestial so no way can they even beat the Vishanti.




Koth was DC's version of Shuma Gorath, who was a version of Cthulhu. Gorath merged with it's own dimension, yet Strange beat Gorath after absorbing the power of Gorath's lieutenant. Gorath's very existence in the normal universe would destroy galaxies.



He wasn't a rogue back then. Power level's obviously different since Parallax and Anti-Monitor is far above Shazam in power. And Shazam, even Cap Marvel was giving Spectre a hard time. Rogue Spectre won only by absorbing Shazam's magic.



Post Crisis Darkseid is not Galactus level. Heck, he's even below Rune Thor. And we're talking about rogue Spectre who got his powers stolen and even had a hard time against Shazam.



Spectre varies in power. He goes up and down. Point is we're talking about "current" rogue Spectre. At the height of his power, he can stomped Anti-Monitor. In this form, he had trouble against Shazam.

Agamotto, Hoggoth, and Oshtur are three beings far above Shazam or Marvel Odin in power. Absorbing magic from Shazam is far different from doing that against these three, all the while defending against them and five other beings with immense power.

Heck, even with all that Earth magic backing Marvel up, I doubt Cap was even skyfather level.

Originally posted by Beyonder
Obviously not anything if he got his own powers stolen.

You can't really 'steal' spectres powers. Sure, you may slow him down a bit, but point blank... He's *God's Wrath* -Period. You aren't winning, if he's really after you for some reason. Which is precisely why he's running around unchecked right now. Even the imps are powerless against him right now...and this is 'current' spectre.

Spectre threads are pretty unfair.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
You can't really 'steal' spectres powers.

Never say never. This is comics. And beings as high as Pre-Recon Beyonder have had their powers stolen. Even Lucifer he's had his powers turned on him and killed him. The same Lucifer that survived multiversal level destruction.



Please don't say Period. He's God's Wrath but he isn't god himself. There's a big difference. He can be stopped. Emporer Joker beat and caged him.



If he's running around unchecked, then doesn't really have a reason does he? And if he does have a reason, then is he not unchecked? Or is there even a difference between rogue and regular? Checked and Unchecked?



What did the Imps do? This confusing. He won against Shazam by absorbing Shazam's magic, not outright beat him. Yet Imps can't affect him? And regular Spectre was caged by Emporer Joker with Mxy's powers.

As for Imps themselves, I personally rank them at Celestial level. Other's put them above Eternity and possibly above.

If rogue Spectre is Eternity level or up, he stomps the Marvel team. He seems not since his performance against Shazam, Black Alice, and Captain Marvel show otherwise.

Originally posted by Beyonder
Never say never. This is comics. And beings as high as Pre-Recon Beyonder have had their powers stolen. Even Lucifer he's had his powers turned on him and killed him. The same Lucifer that survived multiversal level destruction.



Please don't say Period. He's God's Wrath but he isn't god himself. There's a big difference. He can be stopped. Emporer Joker beat and caged him.



If he's running around unchecked, then doesn't really have a reason does he? And if he does have a reason, then is he not unchecked? Or is there even a difference between rogue and regular? Checked and Unchecked?



What did the Imps do? This confusing. He won against Shazam by absorbing Shazam's magic, not outright beat him. Yet Imps can't affect him? And regular Spectre was caged by Emporer Joker with Mxy's powers.

As for Imps themselves, I personally rank them at Celestial level. Other's put them above Eternity and possibly above.

If rogue Spectre is Eternity level or up, he stomps the Marvel team. He seems not since his performance against Shazam, Black Alice, and Captain Marvel show otherwise.

It's called showmanship...nobody wants to read a 1 page comic, do they?
The imps have given him a hard time many times...not so this time. Right now Mxy and his buddies are powerless because of Spectre.

Checked, Unchecked, guns, pistolas. Currently, he's trashing everyone.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
It's called showmanship...nobody wants to read a 1 page comic, do they?

That doesn't explain anything. If he's that powerful, you put beings on his level to fight him and the pages will last more than just one. Lucifer, Michael, the Endless.

But he's not. Hence he's been fighting beings from skyfather level down.



And how do you explain this? What happened to showmanship? If anything, he would have wiped out Shazam in a confrontation then struggle in a battle with Imps. Shazam isn't even on Mxy's level.



Your not explaining anything. Imps are far above Shazam. Shazam gave Spectre a fight. But Imps can't beat Spectre? Heck, Imps aren't even magic, just from a higher plane. Regular Spectre was trapped by Emporer Joker.

Either the Imps are below Shazam in this depiction or those writters are smoking anthrax.

Spectre didnt have to absorb magic from Shazam or from the Rock of Eternity, he could have got it from anywhere he wanted, he was just showing off to Shazam how powerful he is.

Capt Marvel was connected with all of the DC Earth magical beings, thats enough for anyone to fight, and Spectre still won. that fight was causing trouble not just in our dimension but in other dimensions as well.

this is not a Spectre with a human host who might bring his powers down, this is Vengeance at its worst, the only thing that could stop him at this point is if The Word limits his powers, which isn't really happening rit now or that we can see.

Originally posted by Beyonder
That doesn't explain anything. If he's that powerful, you put beings on his level to fight him and the pages will last more than just one. Lucifer, Michael, the Endless.

But he's not. Hence he's been fighting beings from skyfather level down.
And the Vishanti compare to these beings? Don't see a point to this one...

Originally posted by Beyonder

And how do you explain this? What happened to showmanship? If anything, he would have wiped out Shazam in a confrontation then struggle in a battle with Imps. Shazam isn't even on Mxy's level.
Shazam lost, in his place of power and using every trick in his book, and this was after spectre being rogue for quite a while. Spectre could have done it instantly, but who wants a 1 page comic? Hell, he even takes time to listen to the wizard before confronting him.

Originally posted by Beyonder

Your not explaining anything. Imps are far above Shazam. Shazam gave Spectre a fight. But Imps can't beat Spectre? Heck, Imps aren't even magic, just from a higher plane. Regular Spectre was trapped by Emporer Joker.

Once again, Imps have given Spectre trouble before, BUT...this is an insane spectre. He's taken their source of power...they are powerless against him.

Originally posted by Beyonder

Either the Imps are below Shazam in this depiction or those writters are smoking anthrax.

Nope. You just haven't been keeping up. Just because you don't agree with something, doesn't mean that its wrong.

Kevdude does a good job explaining this, so it saves me time. Thanks.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind

Shazam lost, in his place of power and using every trick in his book, and this was after spectre being rogue for quite a while. Spectre could have done it instantly, but who wants a 1 page comic? Hell, he even takes time to listen to the wizard before confronting him.



Wasn't Shazam already in a weakened state from fighting someone else? Didn't Shazam predict his own defeat before Spectre even got there?

He did one spell on Mordru before Spectre got there, and he wasn't weak because of that encounter though, all DC magic users are weak right now because of Spectre taking it. Even Mordru claimed that "every spell feels like a mountain", and Mr Mxyz was powerless when we saw him in Superman.

But then he did claim that he picked that battleground because it was his place of power and that he could draw from all the artifacts around him, so he was indeed not quite as limited as one would think, but still yes he did predict his defeat as should anyone facing The Spectre.

And about Captain Marvel throwing down with Spectre, it wasn't just DC Earth if you read it again, he was drawing upon Gods and I believe a pantheon or two as well. And then it went onto pretty much every being on Earth totally was giving him power, and then captions were reading as if it went even beyond that.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
And the Vishanti compare to these beings? Don't see a point to this one...

? You missed the point. If Spectre is that powerful, he should be fighting guys like Lucifer, Mxy, Michael, or the Endless and this would last MORE THAN 1 page. Yet he spends time fighting Captain Marvel and Shazam?



No. You can easily avoid 1 page by putting him up against Mxy, Lucifer, Michael, or the Endless. Yet he fights several pages against Shazam?

Even in his place of power, you can't compare Shazam to Agamatto because this fight is in Agamotto's realm as well.



Once again, Spectre was caged by Emperor Joker.



Spectre did it by small groups and inviduals. It wasn't like he fought all the Lords of Chaos and Order together along with the Mxy. And since when does Imps really use magic? He had trouble with Shazam and Marvel but takes out the Imps? Does that make sense to you?



So Shazam = Phoenix and Rune Thor?
Or Shazam = Agamotto, Oshtur, and Hoggoth?



You do realise that 23 skyfathers helped make the Destroyer and all every Asgardian was powering up, yet the Celestial stomped it? It couldn't harm anyone of the Celestials. The Uni-Mind got totaled by a shot from a Celestial, killing Zuras.

Moreover, Strange was easily caged by Agamotto. He needed for Galactus to save his butt and even then the fighting only stopped because Hoggoth and Oshtur asked Agamotto to.

Your talking about Agamotto in his realm, plus his equals Hoggoth & Oshtur, Phoenix, Rune Thor, and Strange all attacking Spectre.

This is Spectre (rogue).... with full powered he will be able to take down just anybody except Presence Himself. Rogue Spectre having trouble with Shazam and Marvel will be taken down in 10 sec by anyone from the marvel team.

the vishanti plus the others should be able to beat the spectre.the 3 vishanti are all way above shazam and In their realm they are truely omnipotent.

The marvel team wins unless spectre really can absorb all their magic.
Which he probably can but it's doubtful since their in the realm of the vishanti.




















hey I tried.....................spectre wins..........

But, he's going against magic, why would he need to fight, Lucifer, Michael, or the Endless when the plot doesn't support it? Within the first year of Hal as Spectre he defeated Lucifer. In Spectre storyarc starting in issue 40 Volume 3, Micheal had to come beg Spectre to help him defeat an enemy that was too powerful for him. Then again, he's also been defeated by both of them, when CORRIGAN, the HOST, stepped out of line. Spectre is more powerful, but if it against the will of The Logoz, or The Presence, then the host will find himself short on power. In his own comics, he battles abstracts and beings older and more powerful than the gods, multiversal level stuff.

And Mxy is powerless in DC right now because of Spectre, that's a win, without even trying. Emperor Joker with Myx's powers messed HAL up, not Spectre, the problem was, that Hal was "omnipotent power, but with the scope of a human." He detailed it many times in his series, but eventually overcame the deficiency. Once he was free however, he recreated the universe. Last time he went against an imp in JSA DOV tie in, he shot him with eye beams and it was over.

Spectre, Hostless, as he is right now, means it's -just- the Logoz. Basically, God deciding all kinds of people need to die. That ranks far above everyone else in the thread he's going against.

He's not fighting all the magic gods and users at once, because they're HIDING from him.

Originally posted by Juntai
But, he's going against magic, why would he need to fight, Lucifer, Michael, or the Endless when the plot doesn't support it? Within the first year of Hal as Spectre he defeated Lucifer. In Spectre storyarc starting in issue 40 Volume 3, Micheal had to come beg Spectre to help him defeat an enemy that was too powerful for him. Then again, he's also been defeated by both of them, when CORRIGAN, the HOST, stepped out of line. Spectre is more powerful, but if it against the will of The Logoz, or The Presence, then the host will find himself short on power.

And Mxy is powerless in DC right now because of Spectre, that's a win, without even trying. Emperor Joker with Myx's powers messed HAL up, not Spectre, the problem was, that Hal was "omnipotent power, but with the scope of a human." He detailed it many times in his series, but eventually overcame the deficiency. Once he was free however, he recreated the universe. Last time he went against an imp in JSA DOV tie in, he shot him with eye beams and it was over.

Spectre, Hostless, as he is right now, means it's -just- the Logoz. Basically, God deciding all kinds of people need to die. That ranks far above everyone else in the thread he's going against.

He's not fighting all the magic gods and users at once, because they're HIDING from him.

Preach..........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My bad, that's volume 3, issue 60+, not 40+.

the Spectre (the Wrath) is a part of The Logoz which is a piece of God itself. the Spectre isn't a piece of God The Logoz is the piece of God which The Spectre is connected to The Logoz/The Word, Spectre works as a part of the Logoz wrath. Hal was connected to the Logoz which the Spectre is as well but Hal wanted to be Redemption which is what the Logoz/The Word does, the Wrath/Spectre then can get pushed back (which is very very hard to do) for awhile as we seen Hal do. the reason the Spectre is connected to The Logoz is to calm it down so it won't work the way Eclipso did. Still though The Spectre is about as Vengeful being as anyone could ever be. Spectre is an aspect of Love aka The Word/The Logoz(s).

Spectre still wins!
also where was it ever shown The Spectre defeated Lucifer??? in volume 4?

Beyonder He was caged by emperor joker but it wasn that he could not escape from what i understand it was that he was placed in a place so fragil that if he left he would have destroyed the universe or something like that and thus it wasnt that his powers were nothing it was that the joker outsmarted him.

Originally posted by kevdude
the Spectre (the Wrath) is a part of The Logoz which is a piece of God itself. the Spectre isn't a piece of God The Logoz is the piece of God which The Spectre is connected to The Logoz/The Word, Spectre works as a part of the Logoz wrath. Hal was connected to the Logoz which the Spectre is as well but Hal wanted to be Redemption which is what the Logoz/The Word does, the Wrath/Spectre then can get pushed back (which is very very hard to do) for awhile as we seen Hal do. the reason the Spectre is connected to The Logoz is to calm it down so it won't work the way Eclipso did. Still though The Spectre is about as Vengeful being as anyone could ever be. Spectre is an aspect of Love aka The Word/The Logoz(s).

Spectre still wins!
also where was it ever shown The Spectre defeated Lucifer??? in volume 4? Wrong. Going by what was said in Spectre issue 4 volume 4. Spectre IS the Logoz, The Wrath is just how people percieve it. "Do you have the willpower to continue seeing me this way?"

Originally posted by Juntai
But, he's going against magic, why would he need to fight, Lucifer, Michael, or the Endless when the plot doesn't support it? Within the first year of Hal as Spectre he defeated Lucifer. In Spectre storyarc starting in issue 40 Volume 3, Micheal had to come beg Spectre to help him defeat an enemy that was too powerful for him. Then again, he's also been defeated by both of them, when CORRIGAN, the HOST, stepped out of line. Spectre is more powerful, but if it against the will of The Logoz, or The Presence, then the host will find himself short on power. In his own comics, he battles abstracts and beings older and more powerful than the gods, multiversal level stuff.

And Mxy is powerless in DC right now because of Spectre, that's a win, without even trying. Emperor Joker with Myx's powers messed HAL up, not Spectre, the problem was, that Hal was "omnipotent power, but with the scope of a human." He detailed it many times in his series, but eventually overcame the deficiency. Once he was free however, he recreated the universe. Last time he went against an imp in JSA DOV tie in, he shot him with eye beams and it was over.

Spectre, Hostless, as he is right now, means it's -just- the Logoz. Basically, God deciding all kinds of people need to die. That ranks far above everyone else in the thread he's going against.

He's not fighting all the magic gods and users at once, because they're HIDING from him.

Hey Jun would you be able to tell me the exact issue where Spectre defeats Lucifer and also the one in which Michael asks Spectre for help please.

Nope Hal pierced the veil of The Wrath(Spectre) and revealed The Logoz beneath (giving Spectre his powers). Hal while fighting with Spectre as u can see in those pictures throws Spectre off of him and keeps going deeper then find The Logoz. Spectre says "Perhaps-- the Logoz says She should" it finishes what Spectre was going to say. Spectre is connected to The Logoz which Hal then found beneath Spectre. Spectre is a aspect of The Logoz, so in some ways u are correct. The Presence remade Aztar into a aspect of The Logoz wrath or Gods Wrath the Spectre.

Also during the whole comic in 4 Hal and the Spectre both are using the Logozs power to try to win over each other. that could also be a major reason why Spectre was having trouble bringing Hal over to Vengeance because he wasn't about Vengeance, he was about Redemption, trying to redeem himself which none of the other hosts of Spectre ever did.

Spectre has no business being as high up as Lucifer and Micheal they are in there own class by themselves Spectre can beat them if he is powered by the preseance which to me doesnt even count since he needs the preseance power to do it but with out the power of the preseance i think he'd get owned and he has been shunned like an ant anyway like i said its not that Joker was stronger then Spectre its that he was placed in an area to fragil to escape with out destroying the world he has had trouble with dr fate before yet in these newer spectre battles he killed him did he not and shazam is probably as high as a sky father i mean come on people Mordru and guys lke that are WAY UP THERE when it comes to magic power he to me is probably more powertul or as powerful as Dormammu and Mephesto maybe more.

Originally posted by Beyonder
? You missed the point. If Spectre is that powerful, he should be fighting guys like Lucifer, Mxy, Michael, or the Endless and this would last MORE THAN 1 page. Yet he spends time fighting Captain Marvel and Shazam? /B]

No. I think YOU are missing the point. You are bringing this up because you desperately need an argument to cling to. The story doesn't call for it. It's as ridiculous as bringing up Thanos putting together the infinity gauntlet when there are omnipotent beings with cosmic awareness that should have known better. Why didn't living tribunal stop it.. especially the 2nd time when he went after HOTU?

Originally posted by Beyonder
No. You can easily avoid 1 page by putting him up against Mxy, Lucifer, Michael, or the Endless. Yet he fights several pages against Shazam? /B]

What part of Spectre taking away the Imps powers did you not understand? Why would the endless or Micheal get involved? How many times has the universe been in chaos without any of them showing their face?

Originally posted by Beyonder
Once again, Spectre was caged by Emperor Joker. /B]

You mean when Joker had part of Mxy's power? The same Mxy who is currently a powerless absent minded hobo without any power BECAUSE of spectre? Ruin took him out with a bullet. So much for that theory.


Originally posted by Beyonder
Spectre did it by small groups and inviduals. It wasn't like he fought all the Lords of Chaos and Order together along with the Mxy. And since when does Imps really use magic? He had trouble with Shazam and Marvel but takes out the Imps? Does that make sense to you? /B]

Since when do comics make sense? Thanos had the infinitely gauntlet, yet Spiderman nearly knocks him down. Galactus gets stopped all the time even though he can supposedly level galaxies...etc etc. It's called pacing...and DC has done a fine job of it this year with all their stories tying in nicely.

Seriously, if you and I sat in a room and wrote down all the inconsistencies in comics and got $1 for each one, we'd be rich.

I haven't seen Spectre shutting off Mr. Mxy powers, in what comic did that happen?? I'm sure it did since everyone is talking about it. I'd like to see how he did it, and what mr.mxy said.

Originally posted by kevdude
I haven't seen Spectre shutting off Mr. Mxy powers, in what comic did that happen?? I'm sure it did since everyone is talking about it. I'd like to see how he did it, and what mr.mxy said.

Since you asked so politely sir....

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/5711/mxy1xz.th.jpg

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/9789/mxy24jh.th.jpg
AOS#646 - Damn good story I might add. No fighting..just a different kind of enjoyable Superman tale.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Hey Jun would you be able to tell me the exact issue where Spectre defeats Lucifer and also the one in which Michael asks Spectre for help please. Spectre volume 3 issue 60 Micheal came asking Spectre for help.. http://www.dcuguide.com/Spec/Spec3_060.php That one. He came to Spectre with his own flaming sword stuck in his chest.


Then the one for Lucifer, is wierd, because it wasn't full confrontational like a fight, but Spectre kept wrapping him up and doing different things, neither one actually seemed to damage the other, and then in the end it just played out as a talk. -- but Hal was percieving him differently, just as he seemed to percieve everything different than Corrigan did. To Hal, Heaven and Hell and the material world and pretty much creation as a whole are just perceptions rather than locations/people/things. It's hard to explain, but they met for the first time in issue one. Hal's run as Spectre wasn't as a good vs evil as Corrigan was, and definately not as basic as they portray him in a lot of crossovers. It was a mind trip. So it's not neccisarly the Lucifer you're looking for from Lucifer comics, at least in drawing, though they are very similar mentally... and definately the person recognized as king of hell. I believe even had some words about Micheal and The Presence.

Edit, double post.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Since you asked so politely sir....

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/5711/mxy1xz.th.jpg

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/9789/mxy24jh.th.jpg
AOS#646 - Damn good story I might add. No fighting..just a different kind of enjoyable Superman tale. Yay.

Originally posted by Juntai
Spectre volume 3 issue 60 Micheal came asking Spectre for help.. http://www.dcuguide.com/Spec/Spec3_060.php That one. He came to Spectre with his own flaming sword stuck in his chest.


Then the one for Lucifer, is wierd, because it wasn't full confrontational like a fight, but Spectre kept wrapping him up and doing different things, neither one actually seemed to damage the other, and then in the end it just played out as a talk. -- but Hal was percieving him differently, just as he seemed to percieve everything different than Corrigan did. To Hal, Heaven and Hell and the material world and pretty much creation as a whole are just perceptions rather than locations/people/things. It's hard to explain, but they met for the first time in issue one. Hal's run as Spectre wasn't as a good vs evil as Corrigan was, and definately not as basic as they portray him in a lot of crossovers. It was a mind trip. So it's not neccisarly the Lucifer you're looking for from Lucifer comics, at least in drawing, though they are very similar mentally... and definately the person recognized as king of hell. I believe even had some words about Micheal and The Presence.

Ok thanx J. What issue of Spectre did Lucifer and Spectre fight in?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Ok thanx J. What issue of Spectre did Lucifer and Spectre fight in? Soon as I get the willpower I'll dig through the series, but I'm thinking they had a scuffle in issue 1, and he was trying to get Hal to question God, then again later in the series I think they had another confrontation..

hmmm wow Mr. Mxy don't look too good ther lol poor guy

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
No. I think YOU are missing the point. You are bringing this up because you desperately need an argument to cling to. The story doesn't call for it. It's as ridiculous as bringing up Thanos putting together the infinity gauntlet when there are omnipotent beings with cosmic awareness that should have known better. Why didn't living tribunal stop it.. especially the 2nd time when he went after HOTU?

Thanos used the Infinity Well to find the gems, which were entrusted to be protected by Champion, Runner, Grandmaster, Gardener, etc. Furthermore, he was allowed to do so only because of Death (Eternity's equal). Eternity did try to stop him. LT refused Eternity's appeal. Thanos was not a threat to existence; he merely wanted to replace Eternity and balance out life and death as Mistress Death wanted.



What part of Imps aren't magic don't YOU understand? Furthermore, why wouldn't Michael or the Endless be involved if Mxy is? Imps aren't magical.



That's the Mxy I'm talking about. Funny how he stomps Mxy easily while having to struggle with Shazam and CM.



Thanos with the IG? Did you miss the many times it stated that he weakened himself to impress Death by giving the heroes a chance? It was stated over and over. When he was at normal IG level, he brushed off Eternity, Galactus, Chaos, Order, Death, two Celestials, and Mephisto.

Galactus has always been either full or hungry. Heck, the FF has helped stop him before but because he was hungry - that's always been how writters have made him.



And I'd be rich too if I wrote the same excuse everytime to point out the inconsistencies regarding Thanos.

didnt Spectre take the Imps power in infinite crisis right?

Originally posted by Beyonder
Thanos used the Infinity Well to find the gems, which were entrusted to be protected by Champion, Runner, Grandmaster, Gardener, etc. Furthermore, he was allowed to do so only because of Death (Eternity's equal). Eternity did try to stop him. LT refused Eternity's appeal. Thanos was not a threat to existence; he merely wanted to replace Eternity and balance out life and death as Mistress Death wanted.

Yes, and LT made such a wise decision...so wise that he STILL had to get involved at some point. Later on the same guy stomps him with the HOTU.
When Asmodel took over Spectres mantle, he was damn near unstoppable. He sure as hell didn't have permission from god to go around whoopin everyone either.


Originally posted by Beyonder
What part of Imps aren't magic don't YOU understand? Furthermore, why wouldn't Michael or the Endless be involved if Mxy is? Imps aren't magical.

Once again, What part don't YOU get?
Not magic? ...so much for that... Don't know how you missed this scan...
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/9789/mxy24jh.th.jpg

Originally posted by Beyonder
That's the Mxy I'm talking about. Funny how he stomps Mxy easily while having to struggle with Shazam and CM.

Again with this useless "point"
Once again you're struggling to downplay DC for some reason.


Originally posted by Beyonder
Thanos with the IG? Did you miss the many times it stated that he weakened himself to impress Death by giving the heroes a chance? It was stated over and over. When he was at normal IG level, he brushed off Eternity, Galactus, Chaos, Order, Death, two Celestials, and Mephisto.

Galactus has always been either full or hungry. Heck, the FF has helped stop him before but because he was hungry - that's always been how writters have made him.

He turned of his cosmic senses, he still had the power of the gems. Big difference. So Spiderman = Power gem? He had to go back to full power because he nearly lost the gauntlet.

How many times are people going to use that excuse for Galactus?
"Oh, he was hungry, Oh..he was weak.." so what? It's still a bunch of humans.

Originally posted by Beyonder
And I'd be rich too if I wrote the same excuse everytime to point out the inconsistencies regarding Thanos.

Yes, we all would if we did that with practically every character that's seen print.

didnt the spectre take the power from the imps in infinite crisis?

well it has now been shown at least 2 times (from what ive seen and read lately) that The Spectre has beaten 2 very powerful 5 D Imp beings that use Magic or what they call Super Science. This Spectre is without a host which doesn't bring him down in power or get in the way of his true powers, he is shown as being almost unbeatable without a host. in a recent Superman comic it shows The Spectre going up against thousands and thousands of phantoms/dead beings/beings from hell and he was treating them as nothing.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Yes, and LT made such a wise decision...so wise that he STILL had to get involved at some point. Later on the same guy stomps him with the HOTU.

At what point? Only when Warlock had it. Even then, Eternity had to make a case against Warlock.

You blame the LT getting stomped by the HOTU when TOAA planned all along? I guess it would be a bad showing for Spectre too if Presence planned and tricked Darkseid into gaining omnipotence and then stomp Spectre huh?



Um what now? And who worth damn intervened? Kismet? Highfather, Yuga Khan, Ganthet, Michael?



Which part? In this arc he's got magic but he ain't even magic actuality. It's always because he's from a higher dimension. And how funny Mxy gets stomped while Shazam and CM last rounds.



Downplay what?



He reduced his power. Other had taken peoples head if with his punches. Or do you really think Doom survived the blast from the IG that took out the Celestials?

He want back to full power after he stomped every hero. At full might, he blow up two Celestials along with dozens of planets.



Same way people use excuses like Spectre hosts was a newbie, Spectre had a host, Spectre didn't have Presence backing him up.

And funny how a silly clown obtained Imp powers and caged Spectre. Sure sure, you've got your excuses. But when it came down to it, it was still a nutty clown...not even Reed Richards.

Originally posted by Beyonder
At what point? Only when Warlock had it. Even then, Eternity had to make a case against Warlock.

You blame the LT getting stomped by the HOTU when TOAA planned all along? I guess it would be a bad showing for Spectre too if Presence planned and tricked Darkseid into gaining omnipotence and then stomp Spectre huh?

Thank you. You helped prove my point about why higher beings don't need to get involved if the story doesnt call for it. You had to go all the way to the Presence to try and make a point.
By the way...proof that Thanos was tricked would be nice.


Originally posted by Beyonder
Um what now? And who worth damn intervened? Kismet? Highfather, Yuga Khan, Ganthet, Michael?

Kismet, Highfather, Yuga Khan, and Ganthet are Insane Spectre worthy opponents? Nope. Micheal can beat the vishanti by himself as well. Useless point.

Originally posted by Beyonder
Which part? In this arc he's got magic but he ain't even magic actuality. It's always because he's from a higher dimension. And how funny Mxy gets stomped while Shazam and CM last rounds.

With the long written responses you have given me, I assume that you can read the scan. It clearly says "magic" and "can't cast a spell."
Mxy is far more powerful than those 2, so what are you trying to prove here? Just get to it and stop going around it.


Originally posted by Beyonder
Downplay what?

Basically anything DC.

Originally posted by Beyonder
He reduced his power. Other had taken peoples head if with his punches. Or do you really think Doom survived the blast from the IG that took out the Celestials?

He want back to full power after he stomped every hero. At full might, he blow up two Celestials along with dozens of planets.

He turned off his cosmic senses and nearly lost. Show where it says he weakened himself. I'll be waiting. Spiderman still nearly knocked him down, and Masterson Ko'd him briefly.
No different than the point you are trying to justify against Spectre.

Originally posted by Beyonder

Same way people use excuses like Spectre hosts was a newbie, Spectre had a host, Spectre didn't have Presence backing him up.

And funny how a silly clown obtained Imp powers and caged Spectre. Sure sure, you've got your excuses. But when it came down to it, it was still a nutty clown...not even Reed Richards.

Who are these people you are talking about? Your nutty clown did well against a normal Spectre once at partial Mxy power, but we are talking about now. Stop desperately trying to cling to this useless point. Full power Mxy alone can beat the Vishanti as well.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Thank you. You helped prove my point about why higher beings don't need to get involved if the story doesnt call for it. You had to go all the way to the Presence to try and make a point.
By the way...proof that Thanos was tricked would be nice.

? Eternity appealed, LT refused due to Thanos not posing a threat to existence. Which Thanos never did. Warlock was unstable and Eternity proved it. LT removed the IG from Warlock because he was a threat to existence. Story for what now?



Against Asmodel with Spectre's powers. Who intervened then? Superman.

As for Michael, Michael and the Vishanti have nothing to do with my argument. Your the one who claimed Asmodel ran around with Spectre's powers and being near unstoppable. If so, who worth damn intervened? Superman?



Yes, I guess your right. It's magic. And the story calls for it. Mxy getting owned wasn't even worth any pages though he clearly is more power than both Shazam and CM.



No different from you and Marvel.



I guess you missed that issue where Chaos and Order going all out couldn't hurt him or Galactus as well. But yet Spiderman could? Guess your right, Spiderman hits harder than Chaos and Order.



This was in response to you B.S.ing my argument for Galactus being beaten by humans. Why are you acting like a loon about this?

Originally posted by Beyonder
? Eternity appealed, LT refused due to Thanos not posing a threat to existence. Which Thanos never did. Warlock was unstable and Eternity proved it. LT removed the IG from Warlock because he was a threat to existence. Story for what now?

Well, We both know LT was wrong, don't we? But...he didn't intervene, Just like the presence, Micheal, or Lucifer haven't gotten into it with Spectre. Thanks for playing...


Originally posted by Beyonder
Against Asmodel with Spectre's powers. Who intervened then? Superman.

As for Michael, Michael and the Vishanti have nothing to do with my argument. Your the one who claimed Asmodel ran around with Spectre's powers and being near unstoppable. If so, who worth damn intervened? Superman?

Superman had nothing to do with stopping Spectre. The one who stopped Spectre was.... Spectre...

Originally posted by Beyonder
Yes, I guess your right. It's magic. And the story calls for it. Mxy getting owned wasn't even worth any pages though he clearly is more power than both Shazam and CM.

No different than....

Originally posted by Beyonder
This was in response to you B.S.ing my argument for Galactus being beaten by humans. Why are you acting like a loon about this?

this....

Originally posted by Beyonder
I guess you missed that issue where Chaos and Order going all out couldn't hurt him or Galactus as well. But yet Spiderman could? Guess your right, Spiderman hits harder than Chaos and Order.

and this... Thanks. Either way Imps are plenty powerful even by your admission, and they have officially been owned.

Originally posted by Beyonder
No different from you and Marvel.

Predictable. Unlike you, I go by power, not by company.
By the way, I grew up reading Marvel & Image, not DC.

Nothing else to be said on my end, so continue to roll your eyes and fabricate arguments. I turn this over to other posters.

Bump

spectre is the REAL LT he would own these guys

UP

he'd beat them after a fight. anything they do he gets more powerful from. the Vishanti hit him with a spell...he absorbs the magic. kinda what makes him so powerful that and he's God's wrath.thats how he beat Shazam.