What Black characters can defeat Superman?

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Piedmon
Can you name any characters from any comic universe, who are of African descent or at least look like black humans, able to give Superman a serious fight, if not outclass him utterly?

sam_drugbringer
Dream form Sandman.

Of course, he can look like ANYTHING so that might not count.

The Ion
Green Lantern John Stewart

golem370
Maxam

TwisterGameX
Batman

Metalmanx
Originally posted by TwisterGameX
Batman

...Did you read the thread at all?

TwisterGameX
Originally posted by Metalmanx
...Did you read the thread at all?


ninja

Lucid Lui
Black Bolt and Black Widow could take him...

Piedmon
I'm surprised no one's said Muhammad Ali, yet...

Dizzle
Jesus was black. He could do it.

Steel could give him a fight. Doubt he'd pull off a win, but he could give him a fight. Deathurge is black. Black Racer is black. Black Flash is black (to him and Deathurge, that's a technicality. Not African American, but still colored black) Eternity is mostly black. Thanos is black at heart. Black Rob could take Superman...

Black Bolt's white. Black Widow couldn't anyway. Didn't Superman actually end up beating Ali?

Piedmon
Not in the ring, he didn't....

http://jerome.galica.free.fr/dc%20comics/Superman/issue/supermanvsmuhammadali.gif

Lucid Lui
Wait what... Superman fought Ali?

Where've i been...

golem370
Monica Rambeau/Captain Marvel?

LethalFemme
Oh my god did you really have to make this thread?

Creshosk
Normally whenever a question regarding ethnicity of African decent is raised, I'll post a link to a list of blach Superheroes.

I've found a better list:
http://www.blacksuperhero.com/exhibits2.cfm

big grin

Originally posted by Dizzle
Jesus was black. How do you figure?

sam_drugbringer
He was not white, but he's not African American.

Creshosk
Originally posted by sam_drugbringer
He was not white, but he's not African American.

Hmm. . that area is still a predominently caucasian area even if he's not anglosaxon white.

Adam Warlock
Apocalypse could if written to potential. Possibly Cloak could as well. Trap Clark in the darkness.

Scoobless
Originally posted by sam_drugbringer
He was not white, but he's not African American.

he wasn't any type of American

stick out tongue

Meteor Man?

StyleTime
Originally posted by sam_drugbringer
He was not white, but he's not African American.
Since America did not exist back then, neither was anyone else.

Dizzle
Originally posted by Creshosk
Normally whenever a question regarding ethnicity of African decent is raised, I'll post a link to a list of blach Superheroes.

I've found a better list:
http://www.blacksuperhero.com/exhibits2.cfm

big grin

How do you figure?

Hahaha, quote from the Boondocks. And Dogma. Funny show/movie.

manjaro
this is easy. the new kid who is masquerading as firestorm....he can just transmute any element into kryptonite, or blast him continually with red solar energy

manjaro
is the Boondocks not the funneist freaking show on tv? i swear to god aftre seeing that R. kelly episode i did everything short of making it in my shorts laughing

sam_drugbringer
I allways type american in after african. I blame public school education.

Anyway, Since when was Jerusalem White?

Juntai
Originally posted by manjaro
this is easy. the new kid who is masquerading as firestorm....he can just transmute any element into kryptonite, or blast him continually with red solar energy Could he do that before Superman transmuted his face into a lovely crimson spray across the panoramic?

manjaro
ummm im gonna go out on a limb and say yeah

Piedmon
I think I've made my point, anyway. Not counting Muhummad Ali, the upper echelons of comic book power are as whitewashed as elephaunt tusk.

Discuss.

Lucid Lui
Well, i think it has to do with all the main comic icons being established back in the 40's/50's. Black people weren't as accepted back then, only you're basic caucasians were. And, in my opinion when it comes to DC and Marvel, the majority of readers don't want to see anyone take the spotlight away from their old faves and they're afraid of too much change.

Take the X-Men for example. The main X-Men are pretty much the same as they were 20 years ago. How many kids from New Mutants or Gen X made it to the big leagues. A couple yeah, but how long did they manage to stay on a team? Not long at all. Which sucks, cause we're missing out on a lot of potential.

Another example is Sentry. Sure, he's a Superman clone, but he's got alot of potential to be his own character. yet a lot of people condemn him before knowing anything about him. Mainly cause he's being marketed as Marvels most powerful hero. people don't like that he's taking spotlight from Thor, or Ironman or whoever.

That's just the way it seems to go with comics... IMO.

UniOmni
As a black man, i would honestly like to see some black superheros numbers rise, as well as those of latin(latino american) descent.
Even if not in the main DCU, how about Vertigo? I mean look at the angels portrayed by Michael and Lucifer! Caucasian with blond hair and blue eyes....It funny how far some things go. They couldn't have been portrayed as indistinct beings?? They(writers) borrow from biblical mythology, yet where in the bible did it say that angels resembled humans?? Kinda depressing, when the Garden of Eden is believed to have been in Africa/Arabia somewhere. Africans are the original man from a scientific and historical view. But to look at the world, you'd never know it. Jesus looking like Jim Cavielez(sp?)! Hahah. More like the people we are "liberating" in Iraq. Truth! Brainwashing extends so far. Sorry for the rant, but its been bothering me for a very long time. But would America accept Elua Ben Yosef if it was known he looked like Bin Laden?? Question i don't think would get a positive answer.

Creshosk
Originally posted by sam_drugbringer
Anyway, Since when was Jerusalem White? Since when was it not?

Think about who wereand are predominently living there. Egyptians are classified as caucasian, Italians are classified as caucasian. Muslims are also caucasian. Israelites are also caucasian.

at the time it was what? Jews and Romans?

So which of those groups is not caucasian?

long pig
I ****ing hate this topic now.

It's a good topic, but goddamn, if the public WANTS more black characters, there WOULD BE MORE BLACK CHARACTERS!

Is it that hard to relate to someone outside your race?

Creshosk
Originally posted by long pig
Is it that hard to relate to someone outside your race? Jubilee is my faveorite character. big grin

long pig
Originally posted by Creshosk
Since when was it not?

Think about who wereand are predominently living there. Egyptians are classified as caucasian, Italians are classified as caucasian. Muslims are also caucasian. Israelites are also caucasian.

at the time it was what? Jews and Romans?

So which of those groups is not caucasian?

Well, most people see this :http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7307/110/1600/cover.jpg, not this:http://www.heudnsk.com/abandoned/arab_guy.jpg.

So, that's probably why pepole don't understand that the word Caucasian covers a VAST amount of people.

Creshosk
Originally posted by long pig
Well, most people see this :http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7307/110/1600/cover.jpg, not this:http://www.heudnsk.com/abandoned/arab_guy.jpg.

So, that's probably why pepole don't understand that the word Caucasian covers a VAST amount of people. That's true.

UniOmni
But do you think that he considers himself to be Caucasian? Even if he knew thats what scientists might see him as?
And Creshok, people living back then didn't look like Caucazoids of today. Look at the majority of African Americans living in America. Look at the ancestors still in Africa. Mixing of the blood will cause people to lose that which distinguished them from other groups. So read descriptions of Yosef in the bible/Aramaic. Brown skin with wooly(nappy?) hair. Sounds like my cousin Aaron......
Not to make yall uncomfortable, but remember official history is written by winners/victors. And i thought it was well known that the pictures of Yosef and his disciples were based on the artists family and friends. Not to make him sound arrogant, but he just created what he was familiar with. No heat

Creshosk
Originally posted by UniOmni
But do you think that he considers himself to be Caucasian? Even if he knew thats what scientists might see him as?
And Creshok, people living back then didn't look like Caucazoids of today. Look at the majority of African Americans living in America. Look at the ancestors still in Africa. Mixing of the blood will cause people to lose that which distinguished them from other groups. So read descriptions of Yosef in the bible/Aramaic. Brown skin with wooly(nappy?) hair. Sounds like my cousin Aaron......
Not to make yall uncomfortable, but remember official history is written by winners/victors. And i thought it was well known that the pictures of Yosef and his disciples were based on the artists family and friends. Not to make him sound arrogant, but he just created what he was familiar with. No heat No guarentee, because "brown skin" could also refer to tanned from working in the sun, or being in the sun for long periods of time.

And the wooly hair? Yeah that doesn't necciserily mean a Negroid either.

So look at the history of the place, at what point would there have been a change from then to now? the ruleing class were the Romans right? Rome, odern day Italy in europe.

Granted there is the 40 year egress from Egypt, howefver the ancient egyptians we can also see as being Caucazoids, based on their artwork, their facial structures and cranial measurements are still caucazoid.

So I still haven't been told when it changed.

deathclock
Back to topic...
Spawn

Wynndar
Attempting to ethnicly describe people of ancient Judea based on present day Israelies or anyone else from the region is relatively pointless. The inhabitants of the region have constantly changed...and the immigration of "whites" is a more modern trend. Genetic evidence from mitochondrial DNA shows that people of that period where also closer related to Africans than the people at the present. UniOmni is right, Jesus was described as having brown skin and wooly hair...Thus he hid in Egypt because thats where he fit in. There was a show on discovery channel a few years ago where they explained what he looked like.

And yea...he could Superman's ass...and he's Black

ImmortalOne
Jesus was caucasian, well.... arabian caucasian.... like a true aryan....

Spawn (HellKing).............. JAKEEM THUNDER !!!!

Swanky-Tuna
Black Panther could certainly manage it if he had the time and information.
Originally posted by Scoobless
Meteor Man?
Meteor Man would tear Superman up.

Glimmerone
No Human's black, white, yellow or whatever other color people may use to call themselves or other people. The color system of human classification is one that stems from colonial times. Its involves psychological manipulation which would cause some to feel good about themselves and others to feel bad or degraded, depending on where their skin color would fit in on this color chart. It's something that was also used to tamper with the identities of peoples, tribes and nations the world the over in order to give to different peoples from the past and in the recent present an identity that their colonizers wanted them to have, it easy to conquer people from their depressed and don't believe in themselves. It was and still is a imperial system of identity redefined based on color, phenotype and individual body structure of the different kinds of people in the world with those old feeling and beliefs underneath that imply that the lighter or darker your skin is, the smarter, better, higher, or dumber, badder and uncivilized you must be. Its a terrible way for people to view one another, this color-body parts shape system is based on purposeful hatred. It denied all people the value and worth they truly have, and also hinders the potential and happiness of human beings. If you are fighting all the time, exploiting and suffering one another constantly, hatefully labeling or greedily withholding resources from each other, how can we expect the world to be anything better than a sad place live. Its all of our home, we all got no place else to go, don't let the perceptions about starting new colonies on other worlds fool you, that's not happening any time soon. The earth is our home, it was made for us and we from it. We were not made to live on Mars or any other planet out there, they are for us to explore and learn about, not live on. God made earth and its peoples, human variety of skin and forms comes from him. In each of the three groups of humans you'll find different variations of skin color and forms or phenotypes, but each group has certain features and shapes that you'll find more in that particular group or in one of its subgroups.

Japethic:Aryan/Indo-european- white or Caucasian is used nowadays to refer to people of this group. These are the only humans who have hair and eyes that come in various shades, unlike the other two groups, who with a few exceptions have hair and eyes that come in different textures and degrees of mostly the color brown. This group has the lightest skin of all humans, some get very tall are among the largest people on earth. They're also the widest boned humans.They lived in Europe for most of their history, save for the Persians(In Persia/Iran today there are also members of the other two groups and mixtures of them with Persian/Iranians) who lived in the area known as Iran since ancient times.

Hamitic:Afro-Asiatic peoples/African-Black is used to refer to human beings from this group. They have a larger variety of phenotypes than the other two group. Some have wide noses, others medium, others small, or other pointed or big wide noses. They have woolly hair, slick hair, tightly curled hair and loosely curled hair. They have various heights, some are very small(pygmies) others very tall. Many of the tallest, lankiest or skinny humans can be found in this group. In this group, the people skin ranges in brown (pale brown to actual black looking). They lived in Africa, Arabia, Asia, and Pacific islands or Oceania since ancient times, they're equator people. Some tribes of these kind of people have mix in quite a bit with the other two groups, especially with some Semites and south Europeans to form what is called ethic looking people, people of brown skin like Hamites/Africans but with a combination of a particular wideness, skinny-thickness, small petiteness that while founded in each group, ends up with a distinctive look that attunes more to each individually.

Shem or Semite-Refers to Asiatic peoples. Some of them have a bit of size in terms of height and thickness, however for the most part, they are the smallest and most petite of all human beings. They live in Arabia and Asia and have skin tones ranging from yellowish to off white. They, like the other two group possess an impressive variety and are the only human with actual straight hair, not slick or curly like African/Hamitic or wavy and thick like Japethic/indo-european people. They have brown eyes for the most part like Africans, but in their's as well as Africans, there are various shades of brown eyes looks, and other colors such as grey and green in both Asians and Africans. All of us as human beings are greatly bless with beauty and talent, and that is what moved me to type this post.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by ImmortalOne
Jesus was caucasian, well.... arabian caucasian.... like a true aryan....

Spawn (HellKing).............. JAKEEM THUNDER !!!!

Arabian Caucasian?

You mean perhaps...Israeli? Then yes.

the Darkone
Phastso -eternal, Beta Ray Bill, Moses Magnum

roughrider
Try to steer clear of alien races - John Stewart has the best shot. And while John fights him, Luke Cage comes around the Kent household and charms Lois away. stick out tongue

jgiant
If superman goes all out no black hero is gunna stop him...

Scoobless
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Black Panther could certainly manage it if he had the time and information.

Meteor Man would tear Superman up.

Indubitably

big grin

Spawnrules
Spawn can, hes the ruler of hell

Scoobless
Originally posted by Spawnrules
Spawn can, hes the ruler of hell

could regular Spawn though?

Spawnrules
no

Spawnrules
only god-like hes at skyfather level

hawkwind
maybe storm.if he was severely weakened by being forcefed kryptonite.

Spawnrules
no, superman been worse before, i highly dout it

Spawnrules
i know who can Martin luther King

Scoobless
Shaft

Spawnrules
whos shaft

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Spawnrules
whos shaft

...

...

...Who's Shaft?! Who's SHAFT?! Are you serious?!

Oh, man. Kids these days. So uncultured.

Shaft would TOTALLY rock Superman, by the way.

Scoobless
Oh yeah... and Mace Windu... Clone Wars version

Adam Warlock
Jakeem Thunder

Dizzle
Black Racer still rocks all of these.

Or Eternity. He IS mostly black...

Shaft... He's one bad mutha- shut your mouth, this is Shaft we're talkin about.

LethalFemme
OH my GOD are you still answering this thread?

sam_drugbringer
Which book is that from Drizzt quote from Dizzle?

Dizzle
It's from Exile, the 2nd one in the Dark Elf Trilogy. Just read all of them anyway.

spiderman44
u gy need top read the bible aye jesus is not a race hes a god

but im black nd i think all black people r razy and i dont care wat u guys say wolverines black he act black nd green lantern maybe could spawn can if darkseid count as a ashy black guy then i geuss him

Dizzle
Originally posted by spiderman44
u gy need top read the bible aye jesus is not a race hes a god

but im black nd i think all black people r razy and i dont care wat u guys say wolverines black he act black nd green lantern maybe could spawn can if darkseid count as a ashy black guy then i geuss him

Actually, the whole point of Jesus was for him to be human. Meaning human, and everything that goes along with it, including a definite shape. And farting, but we're not going to get into making millions on "bottled Jesus farts". Anyhoo, since Jesus did live around Isreal his entire life, it stands to reason that he would look like everyone else from that area.

spiderman44
ya but he really isnt a race tho ur right tho jesus waz suppose to be a human but not a normal human

long pig
Jesus wasn't black.

The bible never actually said he had black skin, it said he had skin like fine brass, which is slightly darker than gold.

His hair was like wool, which could have meant kinky, thick or even white/grey.

The discovery channel broke it down pretty good, they showed what the average isreal citizen looked like back then and they looked closer to bin laden than a black guy.

spiderman44
haha binladen but sorry jesus iz black n he could beat superman

Piedmon
It really warms my heart that such considered and thoughtful discussion can spring forth from these boards....

But seriously, there is a huge imbalance favoring Anglo/Germanic superheroes. It's a shame that a black, latin, or asian characters are such a rarity in comic books. If I made a new superhero for a mainstream universe--Marvel or DC--and I made him black, I bet you a large number of readers would, even if they didn't admit to themselves or others, wonder if I was trying to make a "statement."

This other thing that really disturbs me is why marketers or editors seem to think "ethnic" characters will only appeal to their "demographic." What, exactly, keeps a white reader from relating to Luke Cage? I've known lots of black kids who thought Batman and Wolverine were the shit, there doesn't seem to be any such "barrier" in that direction.

But that mentality leads to ethnic characters that are little more than stereotypes. Christopher Priest talked about this sort of thing on his website, and it's a really telling examination. You have these middle-aged white writers trying to write a "credible," black character that the "black demographic" can relate to, and the results are jive-talking "street tough" blacks. This isn't to knock Luke Cage, who's come a long way since his somewhat kitsch origin, but think of the lamentable "Snap Wilson" story--stuff like that is not needed anywhere, where you take a black character who was meant to stand for something better (Sam Wilson's original origin was a social worker) and turn him into a Blaxploitation archetype. That story ruined The Falcon, and the character's never recovered. That's exactly what the comic industry DOESN'T need.
I want more color in my comics.

sam_drugbringer
Young Avengers seems like they are trying to make a point. LUke acualy mentions how few Black Heros are around.

Then again, making patriot a kid who used drugs to get powers kinda backfires that idea...

Fanboy
Originally posted by The Ion
Green Lantern John Stewart


No he can not Superman already beated him by freezing him and trapping him in his own kind of tornado wind thing.

Arahan
Candy Man

Arahan
The coolest Black Hero is Black Panther.

Swanky-Tuna
Black Panther kicks ass beyond ass.

Lucid Lui
Yeah. Give him prep and he'll take Superman. big grin

supremthor
then new firestorm would kick superman ass

supremthor
and JJ Thunder would kill almost anyone

supremthor
Mister Miracle III is black

Mainstream
Mr. Terrific II of the JSA is very crafty he might could pull of a win..he's kinda like the JSA Batman...a very skilled, intelligent human who fights along side super powered fighters

supremthor
http://www.blacksuperhero.com/exhibits2.cfm this is to funny

supremthor
Apocalypse is black???

Mainstream
Originally posted by supremthor
Apocalypse is black???


he's from Africa so it's kinda assumed he's black...under his blue armor that is.

supremthor
yaaaaaaaaaaaa boyyyyyyyyyyyy

Mainstream
Originally posted by supremthor
yaaaaaaaaaaaa boyyyyyyyyyyyy


fo shizzle

sam_drugbringer
He's Egyptian, which means he's white.

Mainstream
Originally posted by sam_drugbringer
He's Egyptian, which means he's white.


you sure....I'm not sure if he's black..but I'm pretty sure he wasn't white...he kinda look Asian in his human form...middle eastern to be specific.

jrodslam
^ I would consider Egyptians black, but thats just me.

Ultimate Nick Fury, Phantom Stranger, Felix Faust.

Edit: I think Grundy was white before dying. Disregard.

TheKahn
Originally posted by Piedmon
It really warms my heart that such considered and thoughtful discussion can spring forth from these boards....

But seriously, there is a huge imbalance favoring Anglo/Germanic superheroes. It's a shame that a black, latin, or asian characters are such a rarity in comic books. If I made a new superhero for a mainstream universe--Marvel or DC--and I made him black, I bet you a large number of readers would, even if they didn't admit to themselves or others, wonder if I was trying to make a "statement."

This other thing that really disturbs me is why marketers or editors seem to think "ethnic" characters will only appeal to their "demographic." What, exactly, keeps a white reader from relating to Luke Cage? I've known lots of black kids who thought Batman and Wolverine were the shit, there doesn't seem to be any such "barrier" in that direction.

But that mentality leads to ethnic characters that are little more than stereotypes. Christopher Priest talked about this sort of thing on his website, and it's a really telling examination. You have these middle-aged white writers trying to write a "credible," black character that the "black demographic" can relate to, and the results are jive-talking "street tough" blacks. This isn't to knock Luke Cage, who's come a long way since his somewhat kitsch origin, but think of the lamentable "Snap Wilson" story--stuff like that is not needed anywhere, where you take a black character who was meant to stand for something better (Sam Wilson's original origin was a social worker) and turn him into a Blaxploitation archetype. That story ruined The Falcon, and the character's never recovered. That's exactly what the comic industry DOESN'T need.
I want more color in my comics.


I think you can blame the imbalance of character color on the discrimination that black (as well as women) writers, artists, and editors faced for much of the 20th century. While the comic industry experienced its golden age when many of its classic heroes where created, black voices were muted. Hopefully today with many of thoes barriers destroyed we will begin to see a more diverse talent pool inside the industry and thus more diverse characters. But I think it will take some time as thoes classic (mostly white) characters have become the largest icons in the industry.

Personally, I want quality in my comics. I want the most talented individuals creating new and interesting stories with fresh takes on the classic characters and new diverse characters. I espically like the fact that Marvel introduced a character like Dust (formally in the Hellions). She allows new stories and issues to be delt with and that is what comics need. They should reflect, to some degree, the world and all of the people in it so that they stay relative.

Also, John Stewart and every other green lanter should take Superman down easily as their rings can produce kryptonite radiation.

Warmonger
Originally posted by sam_drugbringer
He's Egyptian, which means he's white.

What the hell are you talking about? Egyptians are not white.

scotsmn
I think there might be few black superheroes for the following reason as well. There are already tons of black superheroes in real life! Go turn on almost any sports channel and take a look at allll the color. These sports figures are worshipped as much or more than comic book heroes. It might seem like overkill to comic book readers to see the overflow from the sports side (where blacks tend to be the majority) to the comic side.

Basically, I think they create characters based on demand. They're in it to make the $$$ after all.

superman302
Superman is sooooooo white

Mainstream
Originally posted by superman302
Superman is sooooooo white


maybe but he got soul like us brothas

Metalmanx
Egyptian is more black than it is white. So, if anything, yes, Apocalypse is black.

But yea, Black Panther is the coolest black character. With prep, he could take out Superman. I mean everyone and their mom can get their hands on Kryptonite nowadays.

TheKahn
Originally posted by Mainstream
maybe but he got soul like us brothas

Superman has as much soul as white bread.
Now Piccolo, that man has somw soul cool

Mainstream
Originally posted by TheKahn
Superman has as much soul as white bread.
Now Piccolo, that man has somw soul cool


lol

TwisterGameX
Superman is a freaking alien. Piccolo is 100% white guy.

Mainstream
Originally posted by TwisterGameX
Superman is a freaking alien. Piccolo is 100% white guy.



no shizzle

TwisterGameX
Originally posted by Mainstream
no shizzle

laughing out loud evil face

Yeah I observed dbz and their counterparts and


Piccolo is white
Vegeta is a punk rocker
Goku is a surfer

Sonic is japanese/white
Tails is 110% white
Knuckles is 80% white


Superman is a freaking ALIEN like some others

jgiant

Mainstream

Metalmanx
Originally posted by TwisterGameX
laughing out loud evil face

Yeah I observed dbz and their counterparts and


Piccolo is white
Vegeta is a punk rocker
Goku is a surfer

Sonic is japanese/white
Tails is 110% white
Knuckles is 80% white


Superman is a freaking ALIEN like some others

Knuckles is totally black. No doubt about that in the slightest.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by jgiant
no black characters can beat superman


Rubbish!!! stick out tongue

Pulsar arguably could and New X-men 154 revealed some black Phoenix avatars that certainly could lol.

Mainstream
yeah don't under estimate black power!!!!

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Knuckles is totally black. No doubt about that in the slightest.

What about Shadow?

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/images/050314.jpg

spiderman44
i think im the only black person in hurr but btaman iz black and he can beat superman

illadelph12
Interesting thread.

Supes got beat down by a brotha in his own comic when he went to Harlem.

Don't believe me, check the archives...

By the way, for all those claiming Egyptians were white, and trying to use "historical references" by noted Western Archaeologists and Paleontologists as to the Ethnicity of the region 2000+ years ago, look up the Moors of Northern Africa, whose empire spread up through Spain, Italy, and France for the preluding centuries leading up to the birth of Christ, predating the Roman Empire.

Let alone the Ancient Ethiopian Empire. They weren't always starving children and Red Cross Aid Recipients.

The Roman Empire was a melting pot of conquered peoples of the region, it was not one race of "caucasians", and many of these "caucasians" had previously been conquered and genetically intermingled with the people of North Africa from Algeria all the way to what is now Somalia.

As someone said before, history is (re)written by the victors.

You can't hide the truth forever, however.

Scoobless
Originally posted by spiderman44
i think im the only black person in hurr

you kiddin'?... half of KMC is black

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by spiderman44
i think im the only black person in hurr

You aint. wink

yahman
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Rubbish!!! stick out tongue

Pulsar arguably could and New X-men 154 revealed some black Phoenix avatars that certainly could lol.

Pulsar ???????? As in the chick who was beaten, and then kidknapped by the wrecking crew ? confused

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by yahman
Pulsar ???????? As in the chick who was beaten, and then kidknapped by the wrecking crew ? confused

Arguably!!! At full potential without PIS/CIS and all that other rubbish i dont see why its not feasible. big grin

Creshosk
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Egyptian is more black than it is white. So, if anything, yes, Apocalypse is black. No they're not,

How is this guy (Or any other egyptian for that matter) more black than white?

They only assuption I've been able to find that justifies the caucasian Egyptians as "black" is that egypt is in africa so they are africans . . .

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-07/16/xinsrc_4520702160917296217145.jpg

Or this guy:

yahman
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Arguably!!! At full potential without PIS/CIS and all that other rubbish i dont see why its not feasible. big grin

Its only fair then that Supes is 'At full potential without PIS/CIS and all that other rubbish ', then ! smile I don't see him winning tho roll eyes (sarcastic)

lord krondor
Rosa Parks. She wasn't in comic books, but she was quite a comical character. Whenever Superman would tell her to do something she would simply refuse and start a movement that would lead to the inevitable destruction of Superman and his anti-black ways.

illadelph12
Creshock, the people in the region now, today, didn't look that way 2000+ years ago. A lot of race mixing and migration has taken place in the last 4000+ years.

Hell, the Ottomans came to the region from Mongolia and set up shop in the 10th Century, AD, and prior to that, at least 4-7 Empires ruled the region.

A whole lot of sex went down, and the result is the full spectrum of people you see in the region today.

Creshosk
Originally posted by illadelph12
Creshock, the people in the region now, today, didn't look that way 2000+ years ago. A lot of race mixing and migration has taken place in the last 4000+ years.

Hell, the Ottomans came to the region from Mongolia and set up shop in the 10th Century, AD, and prior to that, at least 4-7 Empires ruled the region.

A whole lot of sex went down, and the result is the full spectrum of people you see in the region today. Yeah that's the excuse, unfortunatly it doesn't really fly what with the sculptures and drawings left behind by the ancient egyptians either.

UniOmni
Creshok. if you actually look at many ancient drawings and paintings in Eygpt you'd see that they were portrayed with black skin and the sculptures like Sphinxes had full lips and broad noses. If that ain't a trademark of black people i don't know what is. Truth.

Creshosk
Originally posted by UniOmni
Creshok. if you actually look at many ancient drawings and paintings in Eygpt you'd see that they were portrayed with black skin and the sculptures like Sphinxes had full lips and broad noses. If that ain't a trademark of black people i don't know what is. Truth.

No they weren't. they had a reddish color of skin and these:
http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/portraiture/4d/menkaure_and_queen_4d-bmfa.jpg

Don't look like you just described

And neither
http://www.wsu.edu:8000/~dee/GRAPHICS/GALLERY/EGYPT/BANQUET.JPG

Do they?

Neither featrues nor skin tones match what you guys are saying they would have been. Especially before 2000-4000 years of race mixing.

So don't say things are truth before you've done the research.

Mainstream
Originally posted by lord krondor
Rosa Parks. She wasn't in comic books, but she was quite a comical character. Whenever Superman would tell her to do something she would simply refuse and start a movement that would lead to the inevitable destruction of Superman and his anti-black ways.

Superman: go to the back of the bus.

Rosa: GO TO HELL YOU ALIEN WHITE BOY!

Superman: (crying) you didn't have to go there (he walks alway.)

illadelph12
http://www.yeaco.com/trip_image/art/travel-egyptian%20art1.jpg

There's also artwork that depicts darker skinned Egyptians, as well as ivory figurines with dark skinned egyptians on one end and Oriental looking people depicted on the other end. What's your point Creshock?

http://images.allposters.com/images/ric/1500-14137.jpg

You're basing the racial make-up of people from 4000+ years ago on old paintings made with paints created from berry dyes on old canvases that have aged for 4000+ years?

I have a tattoo on my right shoulder that was done in black ink 5 years ago and it's already beginning to discolor. What do you think would happen to a 4000+ year old painting made with oil and berry juices in a pre industrialized society?

What about the charcoal artwork?

What about the obsidian sculptures?

The bronze statues?

The ivory figurines made from elephant tusks depicting darker skinned Egyptians on one end and people of Oriental descent on the other, in commemoration of their trade practices?

I hate to turn a comic thread into a historical and racial debate, but this is comical to say the least.

Creshosk
Originally posted by illadelph12
http://www.yeaco.com/trip_image/art/travel-egyptian%20art1.jpg

There's also artwork that depicts darker skinned Egyptians, as well as ivory figurines with dark skinned egyptians on one end and Oriental looking people depicted on the other end. What's your point Creshock?

http://images.allposters.com/images/ric/1500-14137.jpg

You're basing the racial make-up of people from 4000+ years ago on old paintings made with paints created from berry dyes on old canvases that have aged for 4000+ years?

I have a tattoo on my right shoulder that was done in black ink 5 years ago and it's already beginning to discolor. What do you think would happen to a 4000+ year old painting made with oil and berry juices in a pre industrialized society?

What about the charcoal artwork?

What about the obsidian sculptures?

The bronze statues?

The ivory figurines made from elephant tusks depicting darker skinned Egyptians on one end and people of Oriental descent on the other, in commemoration of their trade practices?

I hate to turn a comic thread into a historical and racial debate, but this is comical to say the least. Except that it's usually the moisture that causes the discoloration, which is why the dry air of the dessert preserves things that well.

So, try again please. You still haven't made your point.

Adam Warlock
Apocalypse AKA En Sabah Nur is on the list of Black superheroes/villains... If superman and Apocalypse are both written to potential, Apoc should take it more times than not.

UniOmni
I was bout to say as well, that its been historically observed that Eygptians have in the ancient past used many colors in their murals. Dark brown, light tan and green. Have you seen any green people?
These colors are symbolic to the ancient culture. So i do my research buddy.
It doesn't matter neways, but just look at features. Full lips, and sometimes broad noses(humid heat) or thin noses(extreme cold).
They probably wouldn't be classified as black or white, but biracial. And thats why i said black, cuz this stupid country has a degrading taint rule. One drop. But never will i support Elizabeth taylor as Cleopatra. Thandie Newton yeah, but not Ms. White Diamonds. But the gist of it is that things have changed in the 1000+ years. Fact. But to say they were white is to rigid a label, specially cuz if they walked around some of the more backwards regions in this country, they'd most likely be called colored.

Mainstream
Apoc mother's brothers wifes cousin step son's nieces grandgrandmother was black...as I recall.

Creshosk
Originally posted by Adam Warlock
Apocalypse AKA En Sabah Nur is on the list of Black superheroes/villains... If superman and Apocalypse are both written to potential, Apoc should take it more times than not. I still don't buy the "if they're egyptian they're black" riff.

They also have Anarkis as being a black character:

http://www.blacksuperhero.com/images/anakaris.gif

How do you justify that?

"All egyptians are Black"

or even "all ancient egyptians are black"

is inaccurate.

http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/portraiture/4d/menkaure_and_queen_4d-bmfa.jpg

Creshosk
Originally posted by UniOmni
I was bout to say as well, that its been historically observed that Eygptians have in the ancient past used many colors in their murals. Dark brown, light tan and green. Have you seen any green people?
These colors are symbolic to the ancient culture. So i do my research buddy.
It doesn't matter neways, but just look at features. Full lips, and sometimes broad noses(humid heat) or thin noses(extreme cold).
They probably wouldn't be classified as black or white, but biracial. And thats why i said black, cuz this stupid country has a degrading taint rule. One drop. But never will i support Elizabeth taylor as Cleopatra. Thandie Newton yeah, but not Ms. White Diamonds. But the gist of it is that things have changed in the 1000+ years. Fact. But to say they were white is to rigid a label, specially cuz if they walked around some of the more backwards regions in this country, they'd most likely be called colored. http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/portraiture/4d/menkaure_and_queen_4d-bmfa.jpg

Try again. this time with actual facts that you didn't make up.

Mainstream
let's agree that Apoc would mark "other" when he marks race on his job applications lol big grin

Creshosk
Originally posted by Mainstream
let's agree that Apoc would mark "other" when he marks race on his job applications lol big grin lol, job applications tend to include all sorts of other races as well, including "social" races that have no scientific basis for being seperate.

illadelph12
You know what, I'm not even going down this road.

Creshock, believe what you will.

I can feel the anger starting to turn in my stomach like I'm watching Rosewood or Mississippi Burning, and I know it's not you I'm angry at, because I know you're a good dude.

I'll just say that you asking for myself or others to get facts of events and the artwork from 4000+ years ago, when all the "facts" you are quoting to us are in fact processed historical "theories" created by historians in a global social structure that has subjugated my people in every way shape and form for so many years, is a farse.

Consider the source.

I'm not an archaeologist or an art historian.

Even if I was, I'm 25 years old, and I was not alive in 3614 BC or anytime prior to that.

Neither were any of these "experts".

History is written by the victors.

All Egyptians weren't dark skinned, but neither are, or were, all Africans, regardless of the region they lived in.

Without the advent of time travel, we'll never truly know.

illadelph12
Oh, and Dylan would beat Superman.

http://www.vh1.com/shared/media/news/images/d/dylan/sq-dylan-da-band-mtv.jpg

He spits "hot fiyah".

Scoobless
Originally posted by Creshosk
lol, job applications tend to include all sorts of other races as well, including "social" races that have no scientific basis for being seperate.

can you imagine Apocalypse filling out a job application form.... what if he got the job?

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/5631/apocalypsemcdonalds4ja.jpg

stick out tongue

Creshosk
Originally posted by Scoobless
can you imagine Apocalypse filling out a job application form.... what if he got the job? What would the job be for though?

I mean it'd be pretty funny to see Apoc working at McDonalds or wal-mart as a cashier.

EditL: LMAO That's what I'm talking about!

UniOmni
Like My Roots minded friend said, i'm a drop it.
But the statement about various colors being used in Eygptian murals were often used as symbolism is FACT. Whether you accept it or not is up to you. So please, don't accuse me of lying, cuz it boils my blood.
And research is key. I always do that, so i don't come across as an ignoramus. Look up the history of Eygpt. You might be surprised.

Oh Yeah, remember that historians/scientists once made the claim that "negroes" would never be able to excell in organized sports simply because they aren't physically, or mentally qualified. Look at contact sports now. Same thing was said about golf and tennis......
Fact is history is dictated by the winners.
Historians was once said that slaves were content in their positions in life and died happy. Ponder that.

scotsmn
Egyptians were half Japanese and half Puertorican. FACT!

Creshosk
Originally posted by UniOmni
Like My Roots minded friend said, i'm a drop it.
But the statement about various colors being used in Eygptian murals were often used as symbolism is FACT. Whether you accept it or not is up to you. So please, don't accuse me of lying, cuz it boils my blood.
And research is key. I always do that, so i don't come across as an ignoramus. Look up the history of Eygpt. You might be surprised.

Oh Yeah, remember that historians/scientists once made the claim that "negroes" would never be able to excell in organized sports simply because they aren't physically, or mentally qualified. Look at contact sports now. Same thing was said about golf and tennis......
Fact is history is dictated by the winners.
Historians was once said that slaves were content in their positions in life and died happy. Ponder that. So . . what historian was I quoting? confused

Oh yeah that's right I wasn't. stick out tongue
I was posting a picture of the egyptian with the . . how was it said? Big noses and big lips?

If Nefrititi ain't Egyptian I don't know who is.

Obviously the features measurment for egyptians being black wasn't there. . . particularly not before 4000+ years of racial mixing?

Creshosk
Originally posted by scotsmn
Egyptians were half Japanese and half Puertorican. FACT! the Puerto rican one is new, though I have heard the Japanese theory, the problem is the timing. (though it does explain the similarities of egyptian, mayan/aztec and japanese artistic culture.

UniOmni
Creshok you've proved my point. The Queen Nefertiti resembles somewhat Halle Berry with slightly altered eyes. Could be makeup.
And Halle Berry looks like countless black women i've seen. Beautiful.
We could debate this all day, but my points been made, by the opposing team. Thanx buddy. Good day

Spawnrules
and i resemble somewhat of Tim drake or kyle Rayner

Creshosk
Originally posted by UniOmni
Creshok you've proved my point. The Queen Nefertiti resembles somewhat Halle Berry with slightly altered eyes. Could be makeup.
And Halle Berry looks like countless black women i've seen. Beautiful.
We could debate this all day, but my points been made, by the opposing team. Thanx buddy. Good day Subjective validation dosen't prove your point.

They still look more like modern day egyptians than what you're trying to make it out to be.

If there were so many different variations of skin color, then wht is with the contradiction of 4000+ years of racial mixing? Implying that there was only one color before hand.

No, they look like modern day Egyptians. Who have the tanned skin.

You have so far failed to prove that the ancient egyptians were as "black" as you're making them out to be.

Mr _Whirlysplat
We are all the scatterlings of Afirca - It was the centre of genetic diversity for humanity according to most reputable Anthropologists.

Creshosk
Originally posted by Mr _Whirlysplat
We are all the scatterlings of Afirca - It was the centre of genetic diversity for humanity according to most reputable Anthropologists. Some people seem to think that if you came from Africa you're negroid.

UniOmni
Originally posted by Creshosk
Subjective validation dosen't prove your point.

They still look more like modern day egyptians than what you're trying to make it out to be.

If there were so many different variations of skin color, then wht is with the contradiction of 4000+ years of racial mixing? Implying that there was only one color before hand.

No, they look like modern day Egyptians. Who have the tanned skin.

You have so far failed to prove that the ancient egyptians were as "black" as you're making them out to be.


Honestly, now i'm done. but i see what ya trying to say. But to the majority, eygptians will never be white, Jesus will never be white but ME/Brown interchangeable colors to anybody informed and not living in denial. And as redundant as calling sombody with tan/brown skin white is, whats the point in debating it? Black is a general term and covers many groups, and in my eyes that will include Jesus and Eygptians. Like a bigot will think of me as a ni@@er, and my friend Osman a sand ni@@er. Either way, they see a ni@@er. I doubt they'd say he's white like me!! Nah But peace. Thats the best thing about maturity. we can agree to disagree.

Oh and for the record. You can be black and not be negroid. Negroid refers to features like lips, noses and head shapes etc. Many blacks in Africa without negroid features. You should go there sometime. Beautiful place

Creshosk
Originally posted by UniOmni
Honestly, now i'm done. but i see what ya trying to say. But to the majority, eygptians will never be white, Jesus will never be white but ME/Brown interchangeable colors to anybody informed and not living in denial. And as redundant as calling sombody with tan/brown skin white is, whats the point in debating it? Black is a general term and covers many groups, and in my eyes that will include Jesus and Eygptians. Like a bigot will think of me as a ni@@er, and my friend Osman a sand ni@@er. Either way, they see a ni@@er. I doubt they'd say he's white like me!! Nah But peace. Thats the best thing about maturity. we can agree to disagree.

Oh and for the record. You can be black and not be negroid. Negroid refers to features like lips, noses and head shapes etc. Many blacks in Africa without negroid features. You should go there sometime. Beautiful place And that's why I've been saying Caucasian.

Caucasian =/= white.
White == Caucasian.

Like
Cat =/= Tabby
Tabby == Cat

UniOmni
My bad then. So that means there can be white people = negroes as well then? But i see the error ofmy ways. But honestly, i will never see caucasian as nething other than white because thats whats its meant to me for so long. Time might change that.

Warmonger
First of all race isn't even a valid biological catagorey. So what do you mean white?

Caucasian? Caucasians are actually asians who emmigrated to Europe. White was simply an name Europeans gave themselves as well as they started naming other races. Black and Yellow and Red the Europeans loved to name people.

The Ancient Egyptians weren't white or black those were names the Europeans tacked on when they felt like it. Everyone in Africa isn't 'Black' but that doens't make them white.

spiderman44
w8 pretty much everyone that originates in africa is black im egyptian and im black or i just call myself that

Creshosk
Now I'm probably goign to step on some toes here, but realize on the outset, No one race is superior, it doesn't matter what color your skin is, or what your face looks like. . . But lets begin shall we?

Originally posted by UniOmni
My bad then. So that means there can be white people = negroes as well then?Generally if a person has a skin color other than white, people think that they are something other than caucasian, which is not always true, as being caucasian doesn't ACTUALLY mean you have white skin. usually it refers to facial structure and cranial measurements as well.

Some parts of some of the "social" races would be scientifically classified as caucasian.
and parts of the same "social" races would also be classified as Negroid.

and what I mean by a social race is its a seperate racial group that has no scientific backing but rather a social/cultural one.

http://vega.unitbv.ro/~aldead1/jenny/Jennifer%20Lopez/jennifer_lopez_009.jpghttp://reds.enquirer.com/img/photos/2001/05/053101sosa.jpg

Originally posted by UniOmni
But i see the error ofmy ways. But honestly, i will never see caucasian as nething other than white because thats whats its meant to me for so long. Time might change that. Well there can be negroids with albinism.
http://hem.passagen.se/sagabo/kabinett/albino/albinism.jpg
but you can tell that they are negroids, despite having white skin.

One of those things that help you realize that some people are grouped into their race because of their skin color alone. When other features would say that they are part of a different group.

That's why you might here someone refer to storm as the whitest black woman, as depending on the artist, the only thing really black about her is her skin color.

Scientifically speaking I think there were like 3 scientifically different races. . .

lord krondor
Knock, Knock

spiderman44
uh egyptians r black

lord krondor
whaaaaat?

lord krondor
i thought they were more of a lime-green.

spiderman44
look im egyptian and im black dont eben try'n tell me wat i am we come from africa wat else u need to kno

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