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both have 1 hour prep b4 an all out fight in new york

is he allowed the power of Eternity , Order , Cho , Cyt , Vasanti?

well he does have an hour of prep

Originally posted by thesilverspider
well he does have an hour of prep
Ok if they allow him to use their power than the Doctor looses

The Doctor can time travel to turn that hour of prep into a millenia.

This might actually be a good fight though. Strange's ability to combat reality-warping (like with the IG) will make it hard for The Doctor to directly affect him.

But assuming the Doctor is being smart about all this, he'll make himself the size of a skyscraper, and will thus have Class Too-Many-To-Count strength. And just for fun, he'll transport them both to a dimension where all matter is coverted to sound waves and music...to give Strange even more to have to deal with. Assuming Steve-O stays together, he'll then he'll turn Strange's blasts into rivers of flowers as they cascade off The Doctor's skin.

^ all of that actually happened at some point or another, so I'm not just making sh*t up.

As best Strange manages a stalemate because The D might have a hard time affecting him. But the Astral Plane technique LP always mentions as Strange's backup plan won't phase The Doctor, there's no evidence that telepathy can affect him, and Strange will have a harder time hurting The Doctor than vice-versa.

Strange has much more experience, and sometimes The Doctor is written dumb. In an actual comic, Strange could definitely pull out a win, but if The Doctor has a smart writer that uses all of his capabilities, he should win.

...*awaits LP's inevitable retort*

that traveling back in time thing is also an option for strange and we all know how strange gets with some prep.(just warming it up for long pig)

Another thing...Strange has to invoke Gods and chant stuff most of the time before his spells happen. The Doctor just has to think about and all of this happens. Advantage: Big D.

...this is kinda fun. That "Who can beat armando's Genis" thread got me thinking we should have more of that stuff...like "kgkg's Surfer vs. armando's Genis" for example...or this fight...though LP hasn't made an appearence just yet.

{edit} to answer silver's question beneath me...more than ready. LP just talks a lot about Strange so he seems intimidating with him. I doubt either of us could convince the other, but it still mkaes for fun discussion.

are you ready digi cause long pig defends his dr.strange like its his own child you better be ready to do the same for the doctor.

Originally posted by kgkg
is he allowed the power of Eternity , Order , Cho , Cyt , Vasanti?


Dr. Strange wins ,with that much power the Doctor will lose big.

So I take it you've read lots of Authority then Darkone?

I don't see any arguments for Strange except "He's too powerful...The Doctor loses" so I'm assuming no one knows exactly how to counter yet.

the doctor ain't no joke he has many options in which way he wants to approach the fight but so does strange

i dont think people should comment unless they have some insight on the doctors skills and truly know what he is capable of.

Let me learn more about the Doctor before I bash him. I'll return with the fury of a thousand castrated pandas!

But, I can debunk a few things said.


Not really, no. It's his "Thing", his trademark, he doesn't have to do it.
ESPECIALLY with prep. Strange can turn any complicated spell into a single syllable, kind of like a hotkey on your computer.


Exactly how good at time travel is the Doctor?

its easy for him 2 time travel its one of many things he can do reality is his 2 play with

The Doctor can think about it and it happens. It took exactly one panel for him to take Midnighter back about 3 years to kill Jenny Fractal. But the time travel thing is probably moot, since both can do it. I'm assuming it'll come down to matter control and other powers.

If my freaking scanner would ever work I'd make a Respect thread to give people a better idea of his powers.

They sound pretty even.
Unless Strange gets power from Eternity or someone, it'll probably be a stalemate.

That's what I'm thinking too...I realize it would be more fun if we both ripped into each other with fanboy fury, but I'm pretty sure they'd stalemate forever, then go out for beers and tell extra-dimensional stories.

Technically the Doctor should have oodles of experience (from all of his past lives, which he is aware of) but he's always written as kind of a flake (losing to Seth was pure PIS). Strange has more feats...but also lots more comics. Written to max potential, especially with prep, dimensions and universes might fall but there's no clear winner.

Doctor 6/10 because I'd be rooting for him

hmm, i've done some reading on the doc and i'd give him more than 6/10. that dude has done some CRAZY stuff! the things he does regularly and with ease are much higher than strange does. with only an hour of prep strange would organize a few spells, but i don't know how exactly he'd take out the doc. doc would weather strange's storm and simply outlast him with high powered feat after retardedly high powered feat. strange NEEDS prep to contend with what doc seems to be able to do at will.

doc is damn uber. and unless someone paints me a specific scenario outlining what spell strange could use to win this, i'm going with the guy who alters reality like. . . what? a skyfather, at least?

the one hour of prep can be stretched into aslong as either of them need since they both can time travel.strange can counter anything that the doctor can throw his way the issue is for how long.stranges defences are one of the best and when he is on the offensive he is still a monster.im still 50 50 on this one

Originally posted by leonidas
hmm, i've done some reading on the doc and i'd give him more than 6/10. that dude has done some CRAZY stuff! the things he does regularly and with ease are much higher than strange does. with only an hour of prep strange would organize a few spells, but i don't know how exactly he'd take out the doc. doc would weather strange's storm and simply outlast him with high powered feat after retardedly high powered feat. strange NEEDS prep to contend with what doc seems to be able to do at will.

doc is damn uber. and unless someone paints me a specific scenario outlining what spell strange could use to win this, i'm going with the guy who alters reality like. . . what? a skyfather, at least?

Hmm...really?

I've never seen you wrong on here, so if you really think so, then Strange probably loses....

Ha!

*takes a minute to bask in the moment*

...here's my earlier comments of how it could happen exactly....

Originally posted by DigiMark007
But assuming the Doctor is being smart about all this, he'll make himself the size of a skyscraper, and will thus have Class Too-Many-To-Count strength. And just for fun, he'll transport them both to a dimension where all matter is coverted to sound waves and music...to give Strange even more to have to deal with. Assuming Steve-O stays together, he'll then he'll turn Strange's blasts into rivers of flowers as they cascade off The Doctor's skin.

^ all of that actually happened at some point or another, so I'm not just making sh*t up.

As best Strange manages a stalemate because The D might have a hard time affecting him. But the Astral Plane technique LP always mentions as Strange's backup plan won't phase The Doctor, there's no evidence that telepathy can affect him, and Strange will have a harder time hurting The Doctor than vice-versa.

Strange has much more experience, and sometimes The Doctor is written dumb. In an actual comic, Strange could definitely pull out a win, but if The Doctor has a smart writer that uses all of his capabilities, he should win.

The dude has telekinetically held Italy in place while the rest of the world turned on its axis. Yeah. Italy. He's done those things I described above and more. He once effectively neutered a Superman clone who had the power of an Atomic Bomb...and made him completely useless with a thought. He waves his hand and dozens of opponents have their blood turned into cologne.

Strange would fight it for a while...and he's smart as hell and can counter reality-warping well. So I'd still be inclined to say that it might be a stalemate more often than not. But on a good day, Jeroen wins.

-DM *standing triumphant over fanboy Strange*

P.S. Thanks to leo, who did more to convince LP in a paragraph than I could probably do in a page of posts.

bump...

I finally get a chance to bask in some fanboy glory and nobody freaking responds.disgust

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I finally get a chance to bask in some fanboy glory and nobody freaking responds.disgust

Be careful what you wish for....
Originally posted by DigiMark007
-DM *standing triumphant over fanboy Strange*

we shall see...but first....
Originally posted by long pig
Hmm...really?

I've never seen you wrong on here, so if you really think so, then Strange probably loses....

call yourself a fanboy... you're a friggin disgrace to Wolverine8888 and all the others of your kind

First off, the Doctor scares easily, panics in fights and has passed out after performing large feats

Strange is battle hardened, a master of prep (took King Thor's Odin Power from him) has more experience and better stamina

The Doctor always needs a minute to figure out what he's going to do, Strange's attacks and defences are virtually instantaneous

Strange can use the EoA to see the Doc's secrets and use that knowledge to mess him up with drugs or something

Fighting Dormammu (who is an uber, uber magic user) Strange blocked and shielded himself from multidirectional blasts and spells flawlessly in almost no time.... the Doctor got merged with Hawksmoor by some no-name aliens... and he couldn't do a thing about it during, or for hours afterwards

The Doc's a good character but in a magical battle Strange would hand him his head

-Scoob *standing triumphant over fanboy Doctor's broken corpse... and that of his lover... DigiMark007*

Originally posted by Scoobless
Be careful what you wish for....


we shall see...but first....


call yourself a fanboy... you're a friggin disgrace to Wolverine8888 and all the others of your kind

First off, the Doctor scares easily, panics in fights and has passed out after performing large feats

Strange is battle hardened, a master of prep (took King Thor's Odin Power from him) has more experience and better stamina

The Doctor always needs a minute to figure out what he's going to do, Strange's attacks and defences are virtually instantaneous

Strange can use the EoA to see the Doc's secrets and use that knowledge to mess him up with drugs or something

Fighting Dormammu (who is an uber, uber magic user) Strange blocked and shielded himself from multidirectional blasts and spells flawlessly in almost no time.... the Doctor got merged with Hawksmoor by some no-name aliens... and he couldn't do a thing about it during, or for hours afterwards

The Doc's a good character but in a magical battle Strange would hand him his head

Actually, both have a week of prep, and bloodlust is on, so the Doctor won't hesitate with trying to kill Strange. Does Mr. Strange get turned into a neat looking founatain with cologne for blood and papaya juice flowing from his mouth? I doubt it, his control over himself is too good for that. But in terms of base raw power, Doctor should take him.
If he doesn't bring in Eternity or get all his magic items together like he did vs. the IG, that is.

Summoning ridiculously powerful things? Strange wins.

Just preparing spells without calling on other entities to help you? The Doctor makes himself a fountain!

very well put scoob

It's an hour prep...not a day. But still...

Can't respond now. Scoob's spite response doesn't worry me though (I'll get to it eventually). LP admitted defeat, and I have leo backing The Doctor as well.

Don't be too happy. I only admitted that going by leo's word, Doctor can do some of the things instantly that Strange needs prep for.( Skyfather like feats), Strange would lose.

But, I don't know how good Doc is with prep, or his limits.

Strange really doesn't have much of a limit, seeing he isn't limited to his own power.

Any prep at all and I give it to Strange. Jeroyen simply doesn't have the self-discipline to make any meaningful preparations. No question that J. has more raw power at his immediate disposal though.

I'll concede that The Doctor is written poorly sometimes. But turn off PIS and CIS and he'd own, with or without prep. There's not much Strange can do that he can't counter, and he'd be quicker at it.

My first post mentioned this...it said something to the effect of "Strange would probably pull it out in an actual comic because the Doctor is written as a flake sometimes. But if he brings his A-game, Jeroen wins." And I stick by that estimation.

Clearly PIS should be ignored, but I generally give full credit to CIS if the question is "Who would win?" and not "Who is more powerful?" the ability to consistantly excell counts for quite a bit. Psycho 60's Doctor would have a much better chance against Strange.

PIS and CIS are mentioned a lot in the versus forum... the fact is, given a week to prepare for a fight, the Doctor WILL just laze around and get stoned... whereas strange will steal LT's all powerful towel

its an hour but they both can stretch that 2 as long as they want via time travel unless yah feel more comfortable with just the hour of prep and no time travel

Ok, how about this...

Current Doctor: loses or stalemates (probably...he is a flake)

Intelligent and Non-Lazy person with Doctor's Powers and decent experience: Beats Strange

Didn't Doctor once change the energy of atomic bomb to...clean air or something?

It happened in Authority Revolution.

Even stripped of his powers Psycho 60's Doctor gradually talked the planet Earth into forcably evicting humanity while sitting in his jail cell. That's good use of prep.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Didn't Doctor once change the energy of atomic bomb to...clean air or something?

It happened in Authority Revolution.

I haven't read that arc yet. But that's well within his power to do so.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I haven't read that arc yet. But that's well within his power to do so.

I have those comics on CD. I try to find it for tomorrow.

Maybe someone should make Respect Doctor thread.

Every shaman is two times more powerful then the earlier one, right?

The Doctor beats Strange

I would do it (I have most of the Authority comics) but my scanner is a b*tch. It would be a much-needed respect thread though. At a glance, he's a weird drug-addict who impersonates Strange pretty well. In reality, though, he'd hand reality-warpers like Fraklin Richards and Wanda profound defeats.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I would do it (I have most of the Authority comics) but my scanner is a b*tch. It would be a much-needed respect thread though. At a glance, he's a weird drug-addict who impersonates Strange pretty well. In reality, though, he'd hand reality-warpers like Fraklin Richards and Wanda profound defeats.

I don't think his easily put into any catorgary, by the way his dead in Revolutions 1 don't know if he comes back. His in Kev!

Originally posted by DigiMark007
At a glance, he's a weird drug-addict who impersonates Strange pretty well. In reality, though, he'd hand reality-warpers like Fraklin Richards and Wanda profound defeats.

hmmmm......naaaahhhh



he's come up short a few times and passed out after some exertion...Scarlet Witch re-wrote the earth and Franklin created a pocket universe without even realising he'd done it

"without realizing he'd done it" suggests a certain lack of control and experience. The Doctor isn't the greatest ever at maintaining his cool, but the only time he passed out (that I know of) was the time after turning the army of super-clones into trees....and that was when he was getting used to his powers.

Let's see Franklin give millions of people gills to breathe underwater with nothing more than a thought.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
"without realizing he'd done it" suggests a certain lack of control and experience.

well he was only 8 years old or so

i wish i could weigh in a little more, but as i told digi, i just started looking at the authority and have done a bit of reading on other sites and such trying to familiarize myself with the characters. digi and lp were a bit hasty in assigning the weight they did to my opinion on this one, i'm afraid. though thanks for the props, both!!

in any event, i may not know everything about the doc, strange however, i know VERY well.

<<Fighting Dormammu (who is an uber, uber magic user) Strange blocked and shielded himself from multidirectional blasts and spells flawlessly in almost no time.... the Doctor got merged with Hawksmoor by some no-name aliens... and he couldn't do a thing about it during, or for hours afterwards>>

was that before or after strange admitted to not having enough power to battle dormammu? or was that the battle where even with all his prep he needed the help of all the defenders to pull it out? and i seem to recall dormammu effortlessly taking over strange's body on one occasion when strange was astral. that time, even WITH prep, he needed a trick AND umar to win.

point is, strange (though they are not often brought up on this forum . . .) also has his share of low showings. (one of my fave's was his getting ready to be killed by the enchantress and the executioner! lp LOVES that one . . . ) with LOADS of prep, strange still needed outside help to beat dracula -- even if he was a bit stronger (says lp) than usual. demons HAVE snuck up on him and caught him by surprise in the past, he HAS been ko'd by a friggin' GUN in an issue of ss (i think it was by nebula . . .)

<<Strange can use the EoA to see the Doc's secrets and use that knowledge to mess him up with drugs or something>>

speculation. perhaps he can, but it could be as easily argued that doc might BLOCK the eye's gaze.

<<The Doctor always needs a minute to figure out what he's going to do, Strange's attacks and defences are virtually instantaneous>>

you may be right here about the doctor -- i've not read enough of him to know -- but strange CAN attack quickly, but usually with just run-of-the-mill stuff, nothing potent enough to put down someone of the doc's power level.

bottom line: sure strange is powerful, but he CAN be/HAS been defeated. this hour prep extended to forever is ridiculous. doc's been up against the clock LOADS of times. why not do it then? not ALL those cases can be CIS/PIS. in an hour, he won't gather all his uber talismans, in a 1on1 fight, eternity sure isn't gonna lend him power, so both those avenues are unrealistic for this fight. strange might have a couple surprise spells (like when he made his house disappear because he chanted the long part of the spell in advance of his fight and only had to speak a single word DURING the fight) but i don't think he's gonna whip up anything that the doc (from what i've seen/read of him) can't handle.

they seem to battle in very different ways, so it's hard to say how a fight would look, visually, between them. i don't see how strange's bolts would affect the doc, and strange's shields may last for a time, but he DOES tire too, sometimes quicker than other times. and it's hard to say how effective those shields would be. digi mentioned a couple of doc's feats. damn, the guy emptied sections of the friggin ocean and left the whole us navy high and dry. without ANY effort!

based on what i know of strange, i think he would need a lot more prep to handle a guy who does things like the doc does so effortlessly. that of course is leaving out the effects of doc's (seemingly questionable) character (which i don't know well enough to really chime in on) and going strictly on the powers they wield.

Originally posted by leonidas
i wish i could weigh in a little more, but as i told digi, i just started looking at the authority and have done a bit of reading on other sites and such trying to familiarize myself with the characters. digi and lp were a bit hasty in assigning the weight they did to my opinion on this one, i'm afraid. though thanks for the props, both!!

in any event, i may not know everything about the doc, strange however, i know VERY well.

<<Fighting Dormammu (who is an uber, uber magic user) Strange blocked and shielded himself from multidirectional blasts and spells flawlessly in almost no time.... the Doctor got merged with Hawksmoor by some no-name aliens... and he couldn't do a thing about it during, or for hours afterwards>>

was that before or after strange admitted to not having enough power to battle dormammu? or was that the battle where even with all his prep he needed the help of all the defenders to pull it out? and i seem to recall dormammu effortlessly taking over strange's body on one occasion when strange was astral. that time, even WITH prep, he needed a trick AND umar to win.

point is, strange (though they are not often brought up on this forum . . .) also has his share of low showings. (one of my fave's was his getting ready to be killed by the enchantress and the executioner! lp LOVES that one . . . ) with LOADS of prep, strange still needed outside help to beat dracula -- even if he was a bit stronger (says lp) than usual. demons HAVE snuck up on him and caught him by surprise in the past, he HAS been ko'd by a friggin' GUN in an issue of ss (i think it was by nebula . . .)

<<Strange can use the EoA to see the Doc's secrets and use that knowledge to mess him up with drugs or something>>

speculation. perhaps he can, but it could be as easily argued that doc might BLOCK the eye's gaze.

<<The Doctor always needs a minute to figure out what he's going to do, Strange's attacks and defences are virtually instantaneous>>

you may be right here about the doctor -- i've not read enough of him to know -- but strange CAN attack quickly, but usually with just run-of-the-mill stuff, nothing potent enough to put down someone of the doc's power level.

bottom line: sure strange is powerful, but he CAN be/HAS been defeated. this hour prep extended to forever is ridiculous. doc's been up against the clock LOADS of times. why not do it then? not ALL those cases can be CIS/PIS. in an hour, he won't gather all his uber talismans, in a 1on1 fight, eternity sure isn't gonna lend him power, so both those avenues are unrealistic for this fight. strange might have a couple surprise spells (like when he made his house disappear because he chanted the long part of the spell in advance of his fight and only had to speak a single word DURING the fight) but i don't think he's gonna whip up anything that the doc (from what i've seen/read of him) can't handle.

they seem to battle in very different ways, so it's hard to say how a fight would look, visually, between them. i don't see how strange's bolts would affect the doc, and strange's shields may last for a time, but he DOES tire too, sometimes quicker than other times. and it's hard to say how effective those shields would be. digi mentioned a couple of doc's feats. damn, the guy emptied sections of the friggin ocean and left the whole us navy high and dry. without ANY effort!

based on what i know of strange, i think he would need a lot more prep to handle a guy who does things like the doc does so effortlessly. that of course is leaving out the effects of doc's (seemingly questionable) character (which i don't know well enough to really chime in on) and going strictly on the powers they wield.
Good post

But this becomes a what if game.

Can Strange win? Of course he can he has defeated enemies that are lot more powerful.
But has been k.O by a lot less that the power that Doctor has.

Will he win? depends on how much power he can gather

Going by his average showing I wouldn’t think so.

Strange with prep can very well be a high level cosmic entity.

and Leo don't forget the astral form that Strange can use

-In my best Scarface voice-
So, you want to play dirty, eh? Okay, I can play dirty...


It was probably after, in which Strange beat Dormammu while in RAT FORM.


Strange as beaten him 3-4 times without prep. You failed to report that Dormammu was ALSO using prep when Strange needed help from the Defenders.

Dormy=Skyfather, and he's even more powerful when he's prepped. i.e killing Eternity.



Ah, you mean when Dormammu was using prep, AGAIN? Dormammu was actually hiding inside Strange's own "Dark dimension" behind his eyepatch. Dormmy waited until the right time to take over Strange's body.



All heroes have low points. Strange being attacked by two asgardians while having his will/power slowly drained by Enchantress (After allowing himself to be kissed by her....just to make her think she was in control) is not really that low. Thor has been taken down a peg by Enchantress as well....by a kiss.



He beat Dracula with one attack in issue 43 of his second series I believe. I have scans.

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/2553/drac7ix.th.jpg

Then, the instance you are speaking of, Dracula had the power of the Darkhold.
THE most powerful mystic artifact in existence, with it, he was drawing more power than Strange gets from the Vishanti.

http://www.marveldirectory.com/misc/darkhold.htm


He couldn't block it. No speculation needed unless Doctor is above Agamotto. Is he?



Thought you'd like this, too.
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/7531/avenown1mh.th.jpg

Thor-"We know full well we cannot fight your spells, Strange!"

Originally posted by long pig

Dormy=Skyfather, and he's even more powerful when he's prepped. i.e killing Eternity.


Na Dormy > Sky father in his dimension.

Thing is Strange does well with demons and extramentional creatures.

but he couldn't do jack shit to Gea an Elder God.

infact she pimp Slapped the defender.

it is weird but Strange can sometime take the best demons but struggle other times

Originally posted by leonidas
was that before or after strange admitted to not having enough power to battle dormammu? or was that the battle where even with all his prep he needed the help of all the defenders to pull it out? and i seem to recall dormammu effortlessly taking over strange's body on one occasion when strange was astral. that time, even WITH prep, he needed a trick AND umar to win.

it was in a Spider-Man comic... he had no prep whatsoever

Originally posted by kgkg
Na Dormy > Sky father in his dimension.

Thing is Strange does well with demons and extramentional creatures.

but he couldn't do jack shit to Gea an Elder God.

infact she pimp Slapped the defender.

it is weird but Strange can sometime take the best demons but struggle other times
Yeah, I have that issue.

I don't know quite what to make of it....

See, Strange has actually rescued Gea after Dormammu took her over and defeated her, way back in DSMMA#3 or 4. He then defeated Dormammu and let Gea go. Dormammu was most def. > Gea then.

But, in the issue you're talking about, Strange didn't know who she was....which made NO sense....seeing he and her both have talked and Gea owes her freedom/life to him.

Wait, I'm under the impression that the Doctor is immortal without an actual soul.

Is this true?

Originally posted by long pig
Wait, I'm under the impression that the Doctor is immortal without an actual soul.

Is this true?

no, the "Doctor" is a title passed from each chosen one to the next when he dies or is stripped of power

....So, this is bloodlust, Strange can and will use black magic...

Strange can win if he can last long enough to send The Doctor's soul to hell via Black Magic.

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9240/soulsata3rw.th.jpg

The Doctor is a reincarnated being (very much with a soul) that has the memory of all of his predecesors...you'd think he'd be better with prep and not getting addicted to drugs with all that experience, but what the hell do I know? Hehe.

The chances of Strange doing that in a comic again are slim to none(he's not evil. And how shitty would the stories be if they all ended that fast?), but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work here.

now THAT'S more like it, piggy. maybe scoob will reinstate you now in the fanboy club . . .

fact is, i don't know enough about the doc to really defend him here. CAN his soul be stolen? i don't really know. when he gained the knowledge of all the past docs, did he gain their souls, or just info? has that been explored? if he gained their souls, banishing his soul may be more difficult than you think. if he didn't, perhaps he can defend it in his own manner somehow?

strange was also relatively ineffective against set, another elder god. and that biker demon -- what was his name . . . he fought him with the defenders . . .

anyway, there is plenty of evidence that even with prep, strange has had all sorts of trouble battling high powered beings -- either alone, or with others helping him. could he win this? maybe. doc seems to have much more raw power immediately accessible though. all he'd have to do is survive against strange for a short time then the power difference would swing in his favor. as for his astral form -- again, i can't say for sure. maybe doc could see/sense it? that might be risky anyway. what if doc found strange's body while he was in astral form and turned it inside a cactus? for that matter, maybe he could turn his ASTRAL form into a cactus. i don't know his limits well enough, so i admit this is all speculation. but i dare say you are speculating as well, as are most on here.

and long, it was while he WAS in rat form that he tricked dormmy and needed umar. the fact that dormmy or others have prep isn't the issue, it's what strange does with prep that tends to get overblown. i still have a hard time visualizing this battle in my head, but based on feats, i'd still say the doc, because he seems to be able to call upon so much power so easily, would win this match. strange needs more prep.

for those more knowledgeable re: the doc -- what level DO you put his abilities at? i guessed skyfather. not that high? higher? has been UNABLE to accomplish a feat he has tried?

good to have you back, piggy!