Eternity vs the Anti-Monitor

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Darth_Erebus
?

Mordum
Eternity takes this one. Anti moniter is tiny compared to eternity

Hegemon875
OK I'll admit I dont a thing about Eternity but on wikipedia, a pretty reliable but not always correct source, they state
He is, along with Death and Galactus, one of three fundamental entities in the Marvel Comics Universe (the Living Tribunal is further above them all and maintains the cosmic balance of power)
"He" refering to Eternity. On this forum at least its pretty much accepted that LT is more or less equal to Spectre. And its a fact that the Anit-Monitor is greater than the spectre. So if Wikipedia is correct Im gonna have to say AM wins.

hoorayforpeepee
Spectre=Phoenix

Hegemon875
Oh Ive just found some more support for my opinion from here on KMC

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t377384.html


Originally posted by unknowable
These are the most powerful characters in the DC and Marvel multiverse.

1. the One Above All {true god of the Marvel multiverse}
the Presence {true god of the DC multiverse}
the Great Evil Beast {God's Polar Opposite; The Darkness to the Light}

2. the White Phoenix of the Crown {is the nexus of all psionic energy which does, has, and ever wil exist in all realities of the multiverse}
Michael {Possesses the Presence's demiurgic power. The power to create. He lays down the foundations for Lucifer} - DC
Lucifer Morningstar {Possesses the Presence's will power. He uses this to shape the demiurgic matter laid down by Michael into the DC universe
(which later became a multiverse} - DC
Elaine Belloc {Michael's daughter, possessing all of Michael's demiurgic power} - DC

3. Living Tribunal {the judge of the marvel multiverse, can destroy universes and affect/pass judgement on anyone under the multiverse
save the One Above All} - Marvel
Spectre/Logoz {the living embodiment of God's Wrath/Spirit of Redemption. He more or less knows all, sees all, and his power is
almost without limit} - DC
the Saint of Killers {he is the divine agent/angel of death, who killed the devil once and a weakened Voice} - DC

4. the Source {The all-knowing lifepower of the New Gods, an aspect of the Presence} - DC
the Word {an incarnation of the first word spoken by the Presence in the Beginning} - DC
the Voice {The entity who has been referred to as the Voice is actually the Voice of the Presence, the Voice that speaks in everything} - DC
the Infinites {"abstract beings"_of incalculable power._ While_manifesting in_our dimension, one of their hands was as big as_Eternity himself} - Marvel
True Beyonders {The Beyonders are a race of immensely powerful entities that reside in the beyond realm, just a tiny fraction of their power gave the Molecule
man all of his abilities and the "Beyonder" all of his near omnipotence} - Marvel
the Makers {five cosmic beings that created the Microverse. They took an existing universe and remade its stars, planets, and galaxies.

5. Nemesis/the Infinity Being {an entity that exists when all seven Infinity Gems are combined} - Marvel
(Infinity Gauntlet) - six gems plus one that control all aspects of Time, Space, Power, Reality, the Mind and the Soul/and the obscure seventh, the Ego gem}
the Endless {their domain spans over the entire DC multiverse and have total control over the seven concepts(Dreams-Death-Despair-Destiny-Delirium-
Desire-Destruction)they are practically omnipotent} - DC

6. the Brothers {the Brothers are the sum total of everything in the Marvel multiverse and DC multiverse} - these are two entities -
that could destroy at-least a mutiverse}

7. Eternity {the embodiment and collective consciousness of all living things in the universe, ability to manipulate time, space, matter,
energy and magic for virtually any purpose, the supreme time being of the universe
Death {embodies the principal of mortality, a mystical essence of the universe, the absence of Life} - Marvel
Infinity {she is the supreme space being of the universe, an intelligence encompassing the very concept of infinity and space,
as such her power is on par with Eternity Death and Oblivion} - Marvel
Oblivion {personification of non-existence, the great void: the absence of space: nothingness} - Marvel
Entropy {incredible godlike powers superior to that of most cosmic beings and on par with such beings as Eternity
his power allows him to do virtually anything and everything} - Marvel
the Rot {It is humongous, empty and growing, continuing to expand, taking up whole portions of space It has proven so powerful,
or so abstract, that neither Death, nor Eternity can affect it} - Marvel



Another person who agrees that Spectre and LT are both equal and above Eternity.

Laminator_X
The Anti-Monitor, the Monitor, and the (Formerly?) Infinite Earths were created by Krona's experiment to discover the secret of creation. The Anti-Monitor was able to consume/nullify thos cosms in part due to their interlinked origins.

Marvel's Multiverse arose from the fragmentation of the Infinity Being that gave rise to the cycles of creation and destruction that eventually led to the current state of affairs. The Anti-Monitor would have far less power therein

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Laminator_X
The Anti-Monitor, the Monitor, and the (Formerly?) Infinite Earths were created by Krona's experiment to discover the secret of creation. The Anti-Monitor was able to consume/nullify thos cosms in part due to their interlinked origins.

Marvel's Multiverse arose from the fragmentation of the Infinity Being that gave rise to the cycles of creation and destruction that eventually led to the current state of affairs. The Anti-Monitor would have far less power therein

The Infinity Beings role in the multiverse got retconned a very long time ago and his position was replaced by Phoenix. Thats how current continuity stands. How long it remains like that however is anyones guess.

GalacticStorm
Anti-Monitor consumed universe after universe. Thererfore many Eternities in Marvel terms. I cant see how he at the height of his power would lose to Eternity. This has been done before anyway.

supremthor
^^^^true

Laminator_X
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Anti-Monitor consumed universe after universe. Thererfore many Eternities in Marvel terms. I cant see how he at the height of his power would lose to Eternity. This has been done before anyway.

The point I was trying to make is that the Anti-Monitor only had the power to consume those worlds because he and they were really one and the same; mere fragments of the one true Creation that Krona's had blasphemy splintered.

It doesn't necessarily follow that the Anti-Monitor would have significant power at all outside of the DC Infinite Earths. Nor does it necessarily follow that having the power of many fragmentary universes would be greater than one unfragmented/whole universe. We cant really say.

Not that a question like this can be answered with any sort of athority mind you, but that's the way my speculation runs.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Laminator_X
The point I was trying to make is that the Anti-Monitor only had the power to consume those worlds because he and they were really one and the same; mere fragments of the one true Creation that Krona's had blasphemy splintered.

It doesn't necessarily follow that the Anti-Monitor would have significant power at all outside of the DC Infinite Earths. Nor does it necessarily follow that having the power of many fragmentary universes would be greater than one unfragmented/whole universe. We cant really say.

Not that a question like this can be answered with any sort of athority mind you, but that's the way my speculation runs.

I see. You're likening Eternity to the Dc universe before it was splintered which is wrong to do. Especially when Eternity himself is just one of many, a small part of a multiverse. Anti - Monitor was like an Anti-matter version of Eternity who unleashed an anti-matter wave which converted all other universes into anti-matter therefore vastly increasing his power. At the height of his power after having consumed all of the multiverse with the exception of 5 universes i dont see how he would have a problem defeating Eternity.

Ethereal
AM wins, but it's not like a blowout or anything.

Superherovandal
Originally posted by Hegemon875
Oh Ive just found some more support for my opinion from here on KMC

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t377384.html




Another person who agrees that Spectre and LT are both equal and above Eternity.

I would say that that hiearchy is messed up. Spectre should be equal to Phoenix and the Source above phoenix.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Superherovandal
I would say that that hiearchy is messed up. Spectre should be equal to Phoenix and the Source above phoenix.

Why should the Source be above Phoenix when theyve been presented as one and the same in the past and in current continuity Phoenix represents the Crown in Creation?

All aspects should be on the same tier.

Beyonder
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Infinity Beings role in the multiverse got retconned a very long time ago and his position was replaced by Phoenix.

...says the fanboy. embarrasment

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Beyonder
...says the fanboy. embarrasment

No. Says the comics. That particular issue got dealt with a long time ago so is not up for debate youngster.roll eyes (sarcastic)

Away with you embarrasment -------->

Beyonder
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
No. Says the comics. That particular issue got dealt with a long time ago so is not up for debate youngster.roll eyes (sarcastic)B]

When? Another X-Men issue?

Superherovandal
She could be just a part of the Source. Like a fragment of the power. So for all we know she could be not as powerful. She could be like the Godwave. A part of the part of the whole. So to speak.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Beyonder
When? Another X-Men issue?

In X-men Forever Eternity stated that the origin and end of a universe is Phoenix. In that series it was also revealed that Galactus and the abstracts were merely the evolved humanity from the previous universe and were transformed into their current states by Phoenix.

This is supported in F4 526 and confirmed in the latest F4 Handbook where Galactus' bio states that Galan was protected at the end of the last universe by Phoenix and bonded to the cosmic egg by Phoenix.

It would be lovely if you could check it out and then get back to me. smile

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Superherovandal
She could be just a part of the Source. Like a fragment of the power. So for all we know she could be not as powerful. She could be like the Godwave. A part of the part of the whole. So to speak.

Nope. Phoenix in Marvel represents the Crown. (Hence Jeans title of White Phoenix of Crown) Keter/Crown/Presence are all the same thing. Just different names for the same aspect of the supreme being. Keter can be represented in creation via the Primum Mobile (as in DC) or as the Big Bang (Phoenix in Marvel)

Just like how the Source is in DC Phoenix is the origin of all life and all energy in Marvels creation as stated in both F4 526 and F4 Annual #23, X-men Forever 1 to 6 and Uncanny X-men (many times over the years up to a few months ago actually)

Superherovandal
no Presence is in terms equal to TOAA. He is the entirety. TGEB is the opposite entirety. As I see it it is Word/Logoz/Source and it is based partially on Christianic/Judaic ideals but has key differences.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Superherovandal
no Presence is in terms equal to TOAA. He is the entirety. TGEB is the opposite entirety

Not from what ive seen. Yahweh would be equal to TOAA and Presence would be the aspect.

But either way what does it matter.

Superherovandal
As I am aware it goes Word/Source/Logoz as aspects and Presence as whole. Yahweh is what we would call God. Yahweh is like the Judaism name for God. Presence is God in DCU and TOAA is God in Marvel.

Superherovandal
and in crossovers I always was aware that TOAA and Presence were always equal.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Superherovandal
As I am aware it goes Word/Source/Logoz as aspects and Presence as whole. Yahweh is what we would call God. Yahweh is like the Judaism name for God. Presence is God in DCU and TOAA is God in Marvel.

Nope. In Lucifer Yahweh was talking of all of his work he's performed things we know Presence, Source and other aspects are responsible for. Also when Yahweh left creation, Presence and the other sleft also. In Lucifer it was made quite clear that Yahweh was top and that the likes of Presence and so on were aspects. This was all made clear when Michael and Lucifer gained access to Yahwehs thoughs and he spoke to them.

Yahweh is the equivalent to TOAA as far as has been shown.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Superherovandal
and in crossovers I always was aware that TOAA and Presence were always equal.

What crossovers. Where was that stated or is that just an assumption?

Superherovandal
didn't it say like one time in Lucifer that when Micheal was trying to see God his father the angels said it was the Presence. Then they tried to keep him away and he blasted them into bloody oblivion. Left smoking ashes as I am aware.

Juntai
Spectre in current continuuity is the Logoz, an equal aspect to any of the other aspects of the divine being such as The Word, The Presence and The Source.


And he did defeat the Antimonitor. He didn't kill him, because he wasn't meant to.. But he did banish the anti-monitor back to the anti-matter realm, and shattered and rebuilt reality while doing it. He has done these feats numerous times.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Superherovandal
didn't it say like one time in Lucifer that when Micheal was trying to see God his father the angels said it was the Presence. Then they tried to keep him away and he blasted them into bloody oblivion. Left smoking ashes as I am aware.

Yeah but at the same time Yahweh is the Presence as was made quite clear the issue before what youre talking about and in the same issue.

Yahweh talked about being the father of Michael and Lucifer, he talked of being responsible for creation and many other things. It was made quite clear that the likes of Presence and that were aspects and Yahweh was the supreme being. Its also Yahwehs name thats written into every atom of DC creation not Presences. Yahweh said he was leaving creation and then when Michael went to see Presence he wasnt in the throne room. Presence is a part of Yahweh. Yahweh equals TOAA apparently.

Superherovandal
maybe Yahweh is another name of the Presence or vice-versa. Like God, Yahweh, and Allah are in the real world.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Superherovandal
maybe Yahweh is another name of the Presence or vice-versa. Like God, Yahweh, and Allah are in the real world.

The evidence points towards Presence being an aspect as opposed to being the supreme being. Yahweh is shown as being responsible for all othe things we know Presence and the other aspects are responsible for.

Also the Presence by definiton is an aspect anyway represented in creation by the Primum mobile. Just like he is in the comics.

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