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A completely dark room (15 x 15). No objects inside of it. Fight to the death/KO.

Poor saps:

Batman
Spiderman
Daredevil
Sabertooth
Captain America
Punisher (handgun only, no extra clips)

Who's the last man standing?

Daredevil...

Spider-Man or DareDevil

I'd give it to DareDevil.

Spiderman's spider-sense would allow him to avoid most assaults (thus providing him with a strong defensive ability), but he wouldnt be able to attack his foes.

Batman's cowl has several lenses (ranging from infra-red to ultra-violet to green-hue NV), however the room is totally dark thus the only lense that would be working would be the infra-red that operates off heat (the green-hue nightvision can see in the dark, but not in total darkness ....it needs at least some ambient light to amplify ...at least the standard military grade models do, thus Batman might have something better, but for now let's assume he has your current top-grade NV suite). Thus he only has his IR lenses working, and thus he can see EVERYONE perfectly. The only problem is that DD's billy-clubs do not have a heat signature, and thus he might be able to see DD throw-the clubs, but he won't see where the clubs were thrown. Bat's would probably the 3rd man standing (i.e 1) DD, 2) Spider, 3) Bats and/or Sabretooth), but he suffers from the inverse of Spiderman in that while spiderman has perfect defense in a darkroom but no offense, Batman has pretty good offense (due to IR enablement) but no way to defend against DD's projectiles.

Sabretooth has advanced sensory abilities, and would smell most of the folks in the room. Thus he has pretty good assault capability in total darkness since he can smell his foes. He also has eyes that can see very well in the dark, but since this is a totally dark room they will be useless (in much the same way as the NV lenses, animals that have good nightvision still require some ambient light for amplification. In TOTAL darkness a cat will see squat, but have some stars, or the slightest ambient light, in the sky and the cat's eyes will see very well). Anyways, Sabretooth can locate his foes (thus like Batman he has great attack capability, although while Bat's relies on IR STooth would rely on scent), but he also faces the same problem as Bats .....defense. He cannot smell DD's batons streaking towards his head! Thus he will be no 3 with Bats.

Captain America: Goes down. His shield is impenetrable, but if he cannot see/smell/sense it coming then he cannot block it. Thus DD's batons, Batman's batarangs, or STooth's claws will quickly take Steve out of this fight. Quick.

Punisher: Sadly he only has a handgun, and at that with no extra clips. He could try to shoot the room, but the standard handgun has between 6 (revolver) to 16 shots (high-clip pistol that is standard and not those extended clip versions). Thus, assuming the standard 9 shots for a pistol (and assuming one in the chamber to make 10), Castle would have it rough. For example even if he hit Sabretooth that wouldn't do anything to ST (a handgun versus Sabretooth is suicide). Spiderman would easily evade any bullets through his spidey-sense. Batman's IR lenses may not detect DareDevil's batons, but flying bullets are hot (and with IR lenses on the slugs would seem like tracer-rounds, and Bat's knows how to evade bullets quite well .....and thus 10 bullets wouldn't phase him much). And DD would sense the slugs EASY.
The only one who would be in ANY danger of getting shot is Captain America, and he could simply cower behind his shield the moment he hears the first gunshot.
Anyways, Frank Castle goes down hard and quick. He'd probably have DareDevil, Sabretooth, and Batman heading for him at the same time.

First to go down: Frank Castle.
Second to go down: Captain America (less than a minute after Frank)
Third to go down: Sabretooth or Batman
Next to go down: Spiderman

Last man standing: DareDevil .....this fight was made for him. In fact it is somewhat unfair to all the rest.

Spiderman 51%, Daredevil 49%. They're both basically the winners. In fact, they may not even fight each other. They're realize they're the only two left and get some drinks or something.

how long do you think it'd take DD to figure out the room was totally dark?... y'know... if someone doesn't actually tell him

Originally posted by Scoobless
how long do you think it'd take DD to figure out the room was totally dark?... y'know... if someone doesn't actually tell him LMAO. . .

I'd say Spiderman takes DD more often than not. He won't be getting hit by much, even in total darkness. His sense allows him to detect the source of an attack pretty accurately. I'd say he can take out most of these guys by riposte alone. Sabes would a be a lot trickier. The only way I see him permenantly putting Creed down is if he gets a whole lot of webbing down Victor's throat. Which I don't see happening when he cannot see where he is aiming. Everyone but Spiderman and Sabretooth die, because Spiderman lacks the offensive capabilities to actually do the job, when blind and confined to a 15x15 room.

maybe Spidey could break out hte spider tracers he hasn't used in years and stick them to people when he finds them... that way he'll know exactly where everone is

the thing here is... with bloodlust on...DD steals Punisher's and Batman's weapons and Cap's shield....and he uses them to take out Sabretooth

Would that work? Sabretooth can take WAY more than a pistol. The shield's powerful, but Cap is both stronger and more skilled with it than DD. Neither has the physical strength to take out Sabes with it. Spiderman throwing the shield? Maybe. DD? No.

Originally posted by Dizzle
Would that work? Sabretooth can take WAY more than a pistol. The shield's powerful, but Cap is both stronger and more skilled with it than DD. Neither has the physical strength to take out Sabes with it. Spiderman throwing the shield? Maybe. DD? No.

well it's not really a case of physical strength.... once DD KOs Cap, he steals the shield... and he doesn't need to be uber skilled with it if Sabes can't see it coming.... just keep whacking him in the temple, throat, groin, etc... with it... and as for the gun... again with Sabes being blind... he can go right up to him and shoot him through the eyes or throat... or groin

Yeah, with Bloodlust on this totally goes to DD. Spider-man would prove a challenge, but DD could take him eventually.

Originally posted by Scoobless
well it's not really a case of physical strength.... once DD KOs Cap, he steals the shield... and he doesn't need to be uber skilled with it if Sabes can't see it coming.... just keep whacking him in the temple, throat, groin, etc... with it... and as for the gun... again with Sabes being blind... he can go right up to him and shoot him through the eyes or throat... or groin



What I'm saying is, Sabes will be laughing off bullets and shield strikes to the temple, throat, and groin. That sort of thing's actually WITHIN his powerset. Pressure points never work on him or Wolverine... If it's DD with a pistol and the shield vs. Sabretooth, Sabes still wins, even in pitch blackness.

Oh, and Spiderman needs (counts on fingers) ONE hit to rip off DD's head, when playing to his fullest. I really don't see Daredevil winning a majority, even in darkness.

would the spider signal work

Wouldn't that just confuse Spidey aswell? Cause it makes his spidey sense buzz aswell...

im talking about the light on his belt

Oh... Well i'm talking about the tracer thingy's...

I completely forgot about that light though... Does he still have it?

And Batman's bound to have a torch. I mean what kind of person would have a utility belt without a torch.

Only crazy people.

Well, if we really want to get into it, Batman could very well have a flashlight, which would kill the point of having the fight in a black room. (hey, all detectives have flashlights... even the world's greatest)

i guess but i was thinking spidey could just jump around avoid getting hit with spider sense and then use the signal 2 see when he goes after who ever is left

Originally posted by Scoobless
how long do you think it'd take DD to figure out the room was totally dark?... y'know... if someone doesn't actually tell him

Hahah. Great point.

Originally posted by Dizzle
Well, if we really want to get into it, Batman could very well have a flashlight, which would kill the point of having the fight in a black room. (hey, all detectives have flashlights... even the world's greatest)

Lighting up a flashlight would be suicide in a dark room. Everyone would know his position.

DD wins this 99% of the time. This fight was made for him. The guy can "see" 360 degrees and can detect where everyone is going with his radar.

First to fall: Punisher. Why only give him a handgun? Unless it's a high velocity pistol (in which case he would only have a small clip), noone in the room will be hurt. Sabretooth can survive from handgun shot. DD, Cap and Batman all have costumes that can take a shot from a pistol. Spidey will just jump out of the way. Punisher can't do anything in this situation.

Second: Captain America. Rogers won't be able to defend against himself from DD's blows.

Third: Sabretooth. His hearing and smell will give him a general area of where his ooponents are but not specific enough where he can strike accurate attacks.

Fourth: Batman. His infrared lenses will give him a huge advantage but as another reader pointed out, how won't be able to protect himself against projectiles...however...there is a way he can win it over daredevil (more on that lateR).

Fifth: Spiderman. How is spiderman going to land blows against DD? His spidersense will tell him if MAtt's about to attack him, but the most spiderman could hope for is to just throw a wild kick or punch and hope it'll strike DD. DD would probably counter it anyway.

Alternative victory: Batman. If I was trapped in a dark room with batman's utility belt and his infrared lenses I would do this:
1) Switch my mask to block all noises.
2) Switch on infrared lenses
3) Put on portable gas mask
4) Close my eyes and throw all my flashbangs and tear gas pellets into the room. The Flashbangs will incapacitate everyone's hearing and balance. The gas pellets will keep people distorted even more.
5) While in infrared mode, pluck off everyone with batarangs and explosives.

Originally posted by Scoobless
how long do you think it'd take DD to figure out the room was totally dark?... y'know... if someone doesn't actually tell him

DD would know the room is dark off the bat. Remeber, he would be able to feel the heat from the light, so hed know. Hed also hear the bulbs genetrating electricity.

Think of the craziness. Everyone would be swinging at everything that comes near them... well except for Batman with his heat vision and DD with his sense. In this kinda fight it's gonna get really ugly really fast due to the lack of room. I think the final two would be Sabertooth and Spiderman. Captain America might make it 3rd to last because of his shield, which would prevent his head from being taken off.

Is it 15 ft x 15 ft? How high are the ceilings?

Phhhh spiderman.

Phhhh DD.

Anyone who said those two had a chance obviously didn't bother to read past those names or was blinded by fanboy love.

Sabertooth owns this fight so easy it's not even funny.

Yeah, I think Sabretooth would win as well. Or possibly Batman.

Well, I think Cap uses a gas mask, but the rest of them would go down if Bats expended all his gas bombs (espeicailly since it's a 15x15 room), leaving only them two. But by the time one of them one, Sabes would be up again. I don't think I can see a Batman win.

There's also explosives. If it came down to just Bats and Sabretooth, I think Batman *could* possibly win with a nerve strike or explosive or something from his goodie bag. But really, I think I lot of people would get tagged with Sabretooth's claws during the havoc.

Tiny explosives, like on Tom and Jerry.

Yeah, I guess he could, but seriously, who can run from sabertooth in a 15x15 room? If this was a more normal fight I might give some of the other guys a chance, but damn, there's nowhere for any of them to go. Sabes is the strongest, fastest, most durable guy in there and he's one of the best fighters to boot.

Yeah. It really cuts out a lot of options for the other guys.

Sabretooth is stronger than Spiderman's 15 ton strength? I thought Sabes was only in the >5 ton category?

And faster? No, I shall not have that. Spiderman is indeed faster.

And no, this is not fanboyism.

ok... what if DD steals caps regular shield AND his energy shield emitter?.... that can be formed into an offensive weapon fairly easily (or so it would seem... never see cap or TM fiddle with controls when they want it to change shape).... and it's powerful enough to hurt the Rhino

If comes down to Spider-Man and Daredevil then Spider-Man waits and lets Daredevil attack him and then grabs DD and throws him against the wall and breaks DD back or neck. ? do they know who there in the room with. Daredevil is a great fighter but compared to Spideys strength and speed he get swated like a fly only somebody like Sabretooth or Wolverine who has great durability might win against Spider-Man

I'd give this to Spider-Man, 2nd being Daredevil, then Batman...HOWEVER...remember, Batman does work in the darkness, and as someone said, he has IR tech and such. He and Daredevil are almost at a tie in my book for this fight, but a little bit of an advantage goes to Dardevil for not really being affected otherwise from the light.

Spider-Man jumps up to the ceiling, covers himself in a protective web and takes a nap there...

An hour later, he wakes up and finishes the last man standing (DD or Sabes).

And yes, he can use his spider-sense to pinpoint his enemy, it's not only to warn him about attacks.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Spider-Man jumps up to the ceiling, covers himself in a protective web and takes a nap there...

An hour later, he wakes up and finishes the last man standing (DD or Sabes).

And yes, he can use his spider-sense to pinpoint his enemy, it's not only to warn him about attacks.

Lol !! , but seriously sabes owns everyone here.

Originally posted by Scoobless
ok... what if DD steals caps regular shield AND his energy shield emitter?.... that can be formed into an offensive weapon fairly easily (or so it would seem... never see cap or TM fiddle with controls when they want it to change shape).... and it's powerful enough to hurt the Rhino

That would just be bad, seeing as the energy shield would emit light. That's a target, right there.

And about Batman's infrared vision. It will be completely useless. You must have some light in order for IR to work.

The people with the best senses here are Spiderman, Daredevil, and Sabretooth.

And I believe Spidey has this, with DD second-to-last.

Infrared is long-ish wavelength electromagnetic radiation. IR should detect the radiation emitted from human bodies. If this is a 15 x 15 ft room and there are six people inside it, then room to maneuver is next to nothing, (I'm assuming the room is typical room height) which is to the detriment of Spiderman and Daredevil and a factor in Sabretooth's favour.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Infrared is long-ish wavelength electromagnetic radiation. IR should detect the radiation emitted from human bodies. If this is a 15 x 15 ft room and there are six people inside it, then room to maneuver is next to nothing, (I'm assuming the room is typical room height) which is to the detriment of Spiderman and Daredevil and a factor in Sabretooth's favour.

Is that right? I was under the assumption that IR needed some light source in order to work. Even a dark night still has light. But not this completely dark room.

Someone posted a good scenario earlier. Spidey just stays out of the way, easily avoiding attacks with his spider sense.

Though, I prefer the use spider sense to basically take everyone out quickly but Sabretooth. And even then, I see Spidey coming out on top. I know that Sabretooth can heal quickly like Wolverine, but he can still be knocked out. And if he's down even for a bit, then Spidey wins.

IR radiation is electromagnetic radiation outside of the visible light spectrum. Room temperature objects and people emit radiation in the IR range.

As for hiding in the corner or just staying out of the way, I just don't see it happening. It's a very small room that hinders maneuverability. There are six people in it, three of which (Batman, Daredevil and Sabretooth) can detect him. Batman and Daredevil's methods of detection are definitely superior to the spider sense. Sabretooth's is arguably better, since although reactive, stimulis is always present to react to.

The spider sense reacts to impending danger, allowing preemptive evasion to avert said danger, and whence he has he will no longer be in danger therefore there is nothing to elicit the sense until the next attack. Although it allows Spiderman to make preemptive reaction, the spider sense is still a reactive, not a proactive, phenomenon. I'm not convinced he can use it as a location tool, and if he can I don't see why it would be more effective than the aforementioned three. Again it's a very small room.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
IR radiation is electromagnetic radiation outside of the visible light spectrum. Room temperature objects and people emit radiation in the IR range.

As for hiding in the corner or just staying out of the way, I just don't see it happening. It's a very small room that hinders maneuverability. There are six people in it, three of which (Batman, Daredevil and Sabretooth) can detect him. Batman and Daredevil's methods of detection are definitely superior to the spider sense. Sabretooth's is arguably better, since although reactive, stimulis is always present to react to.

The spider sense reacts to impending danger, allowing preemptive evasion to avert said danger, and whence he has he will no longer be in danger therefore there is nothing to elicit the sense until the next attack. Although it allows Spiderman to make preemptive reaction, the spider sense is still a reactive, not a proactive, phenomenon. I'm not convinced he can use it as a location tool, and if he can I don't see why it would be more effective than the aforementioned three. Again it's a very small room.

Sorry, Xmarks. For once I shall disagree with you. It hurts actually. I don't think we've done this before, haha.

But Spidey can indeed use his spidey sense as a location tool. He's done it before, more times than I could count. Though, at the moment, I couldn't tell you any specific instances. But I know that he's done it before. It's not just a defensive, too. He can easily use it as an offensive weapon as well.

I don't recall any instance which would imply he could just stand in the corner and go, Sabretooth is 6 ft away and slightly off magnetic north, Batman is northwest 12 ft away, Captain America is 8 ft away etc.

The size of the room really does work to the detriment of fighters like Spiderman and Daredevil who rely a lot on evasive maneuvers in their typical fights.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I don't recall any instance which would imply he could just stand in the corner and go, Sabretooth is 6 ft away and slightly off magnetic north, Batman is northwest 12 ft away, Captain America is 8 ft away etc..

they never write it up that specifically.... but it works pretty well for telling where people are

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/7407/spidersense47da.png

Originally posted by Scoobless
they never write it up that specifically.... but it works pretty well for telling where people are

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/7407/spidersense47da.png
Hey that was a great fight. I loved what happened next

Interesting thread...I'd go with Spidey, though Daredevil has a chance to score a victory also.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Is that right? I was under the assumption that IR needed some light source in order to work. Even a dark night still has light. But not this completely dark room.

Someone posted a good scenario earlier. Spidey just stays out of the way, easily avoiding attacks with his spider sense.

Though, I prefer the use spider sense to basically take everyone out quickly but Sabretooth. And even then, I see Spidey coming out on top. I know that Sabretooth can heal quickly like Wolverine, but he can still be knocked out. And if he's down even for a bit, then Spidey wins.

That is why in my prior post (near the beginning) I explained the nature of the 3 lenses that Batman's cowl has. Of the three (UV, IR and green-hue NV) the only that needs some light to work is the NV (night vision) lenses. For example what the military uses. It needs at least SOME light to work (eg even star light), and in absolute darkness it will not function.

However IR uses a different wavelength, and can spot the heat released by a living body. Highly sensitive IR scopes have even been used to find murder victims buried in the desert (where they basically look for heat differentials due to warmth given off by decomposing bio-matter that causes the earth over the body to be slightly warmer than the rest of the earth at night).

With IR lenses Batman should see everyone with perfect ease. Even in absolute darkness.

Spidey and Daredevil know each other. Daredevil would know that it's in his best interest to help out Spidey. Sabertooth is first, as he's the second best at dark fighting. Batman would be next(assuming there's no prior knowledge of the fight?). Then Cap. When Daredevil and Spidey turn on each other, it all depends on wether or not Spidey can land one solid blow to DD.

Heh, Punishers barely a threat :P I didn't even post him. Punisher'd probably go before anyone else. Frank would know better than to fire all his shots into the dark considering Caps got the shield, Spideys got the sense, DD has the "sight", Sabertooth has the senses, and Batmans got body armor. The chances of a random shot hitting one of them are slim enough without it having to be in the head.


Also, an addition to my post - Spideys Spider-sense doesn't just warn him of danger, it also goes off when he's about to bump into someone, etc.

Really I think it would come down to spidey or sabertooth on this one...kinda in favor of sabes....mainlt because of the roos small area. That area is full of bodies...no matter how much any of them could dodge, they are all gonna get hit...its just too small of an area for that kind of fight. In this cercumastanc sabertooth has a hell of an advantage, he is brutal, savage, a damn good fighter and the second strongest in the room...on top of a healing factor and sences. Bats and Cap are really screwed in this situation, they are just plain and simple SCREWED.

damn it posted without me....any way it comes down between the 3 of them (Punisher doesn't even factor into this unless he accidently shoots Spidey or DD), it is very close...i could see it going any way. Personaly I think DD be 3rd......Sabertooth and Spidey ...I have no idea...it could go either way. Damn! that is a really small room, hell Creed would take up a good portion of it all by himself.

Originally posted by XerxesLogan
damn it posted without me....any way it comes down between the 3 of them (Punisher doesn't even factor into this unless he accidently shoots Spidey or DD), it is very close...i could see it going any way. Personaly I think DD be 3rd......Sabertooth and Spidey ...I have no idea...it could go either way. Damn! that is a really small room, hell Creed would take up a good portion of it all by himself.

Yeah, it's like the size of a master bedroom in a middle class house. I think Punisher has a chance of ending up in the last three considering he's no wimp and if he's attacked by Spiderman, Batman, DD or Captain he has a chance of taking them out with the handgun. Sabertooth is the only one who could take the shots without being KOed (unless he's shot in the head... MIGHT BE temp KOed that way). If by chance Spiderman and DD both take it to Creed at the same time he could be taken out, leaving a chance for some of the others to win.

I see everys agreen on it coming down to DD or Spidey>>>Endgame=in the end its DD baby hes still in his element.HE KNOW WATS GOING ON NE WAY Theres no no real change except lack of movement, but hes exceptional skilled at all sorts of martial arts not to mention boxing which caters to small so eh.. I see him winning it.

Spidey closes his eyes and lets the Spidey sense guide him to victory.

There's some blatant fanboyism going on here. Anyone who can't see that Sabertooth takes this fight like a walk in the park is a raging fanboy.

actually, if the fighters know who's gonna be in the room before hand, Creed is the first to go down, because the rest of the group realize he's the biggest threat. DD pinpoints him, grabs Peter's hands to target him, and they web him to the floor. Frank, also guided by DD, empties his clip in Sabertooth's head. Then it actually becomes interesting. Frank would fall nextBatman's utiliy belt gives him an advantage over Cat. America, so Mr. Roger's is third to go. Relying on past team-ups, Spidey goes after Batman, thinking Matt's got his back. Matt let's the two of them fight it out, then barely beats whoever is left standing

You can't really empty a clip into Sabretooth's head but you can empty it onto his head. But that just sounds dirty.

dosent bat man have a flash light

flash light flash light flash light duh

Yeah, that was mentioned earlier. It was also mentioned how it'd make him a target.

oh

hello hello hello hey theres an echo

Batman- he's got night vision. it works in the pitch black as he proved when he journeyed into some deep tunnels

Spiderman- spider sense allows him to barely keep up with a peak human in the pitch black but he'd still have difficulty

Daredevil- the best suited for this fight as it was already pointed out he probably wouldn't even realize it was dark to begin with.

Sabertooth-night vision, enhanced hearing, he's also well suited for this environment as he proved in his fight with daredevil.

Captain America- can sense shifts in air patterns around him... but I don't think it's enough.

Punisher (handgun only, no extra clips)- really out of luck here IMO.. the weakest link..goodbye.

sabretooth wins this only because of his super powers, while spiderman's th best suited to fight sabes he'd probably lose in the light as well as the dark... sabes just has too much going for him here that the other's don't...

Who's the last man standing?

Originally posted by jinzin
Batman- he's got night vision. it works in the pitch black as he proved when he journeyed into some deep tunnels

Spiderman- spider sense allows him to barely keep up with a peak human in the pitch black but he'd still have difficulty

Daredevil- the best suited for this fight as it was already pointed out he probably wouldn't even realize it was dark to begin with.

Sabertooth-night vision, enhanced hearing, he's also well suited for this environment as he proved in his fight with daredevil.

Captain America- can sense shifts in air patterns around him... but I don't think it's enough.

Punisher (handgun only, no extra clips)- really out of luck here IMO.. the weakest link..goodbye.

sabretooth wins this only because of his super powers, while spiderman's th best suited to fight sabes he'd probably lose in the light as well as the dark... sabes just has too much going for him here that the other's don't...

Who's the last man standing?

It's gotta be Sabes.

you dammmmmmned right...yes

well,hopefully the underdog in this will scream as loud as he can.hopefully scaring the remaining people into shitting their pants..hopefully that will confuse them for a few seconds..thereby enabling the underdog of this contest to start swinging ,and hopefully,get lucky and konk someone unconscious...but thats just blind luck

Spidey or Sabretooth. Both have mad advantages here.

Sabretooth's biggest advantage, however, is not his night vision (since you need some light at all to utilize animalistic night vision, which there is none of), but his healing factor and strength. He'll be hit around and not go down, while the others around him, save for Spiderman, will.

So really, it's down to these two. In my opinion. I give a slight edge to Spidey--51%.

Good post.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Spidey or Sabretooth. Both have mad advantages here.

Sabretooth's biggest advantage, however, is not his night vision (since you need some light at all to utilize animalistic night vision, which there is none of), but his healing factor and strength. He'll be hit around and not go down, while the others around him, save for Spiderman, will.

So really, it's down to these two. In my opinion. I give a slight edge to Spidey--51%.

irm.. his night vision's already worked in pitch black.. that argument fails for the same reason's that the one against batman's nightvision did.... he's already proven otherwise...

Originally posted by scotsmn
A completely dark room (15 x 15). No objects inside of it. Fight to the death/KO.

Poor saps:

Batman
Spiderman
Daredevil
Sabertooth
Captain America
Punisher (handgun only, no extra clips)

Who's the last man standing?

Spider-sense allows him to walk tightropes blindfolded and not bump into the couch when the lights are out. He'd avoid all attacks, and beat the stuffing out of everyone.

Unless Batman's had prep time, Spiderman wins this.

Originally posted by jinzin
irm.. his night vision's already worked in pitch black.. that argument fails for the same reason's that the one against batman's nightvision did.... he's already proven otherwise...

Yea, but after finding out what kind of night vision Batman has, it makes sense now.

Sabretooth, on the other hand, utilizes animal-like night vision, like the night vision that a leopard or jaguar uses. And that night vision can't work in complete darkness. There must be some light in order for it to work.

Now, Sabes can still use his sense of hearing or his sense of smell in order to locate his targets. But I won't accept that he can use his own night vision to see.

What was the instance that Sabretooth was able to see in complete darkness that you're referring to?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Now, Sabes can still use his sense of hearing or his sense of smell in order to locate his targets. But I won't accept that he can use his own night vision to see.

Can Sabretooth triangulate someone's position by sense of smell? I mean, in the real world, that would be impossible because he only has one nose.

Originally posted by Melnorme
Can Sabretooth triangulate someone's position by sense of smell? I mean, in the real world, that would be impossible because he only has one nose.

I completely understand what you're saying, but it's more like a wolf's nose I guess. He would just know where his opponents are, but not exactly what they're doing. He'd know the general direction, however.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I completely understand what you're saying, but it's more like a wolf's nose I guess. He would just know where his opponents are, but not exactly what they're doing. He'd know the general direction, however.

Plus he appears so often as a main adversary to Wolverine, the implausible has got to be commonplace for him.

Im still gonna go with Daredevil on this one. Its pretty much right up his alley. IF Daredevil doesnt come out on top, Spiderman and Batman are runners up.

With Bats and Daredevil being the only ones who can actually see, there a very likely chance that they team up and take out the room.

Cap and Punisher arent threats at all, sad to say.

Well punisher can be a threat to Daredevil and Spiderman. Slugs can put them down. Remember that it's a brawl so even if Spiderman senses danger it's tough to tell exactly which opponent it's coming from.

Originally posted by scotsmn
Well punisher can be a threat to Daredevil and Spiderman. Slugs can put them down. Remember that it's a brawl so even if Spiderman senses danger it's tough to tell exactly which opponent it's coming from.

Maybe Spiderman, but not Daredevil. Spiderman would know the danger, but he wouldnt know its a gun. Daredevil would know its a gun and thus know who its coming from.

Originally posted by scotsmn
Well punisher can be a threat to Daredevil and Spiderman. Slugs can put them down. Remember that it's a brawl so even if Spiderman senses danger it's tough to tell exactly which opponent it's coming from.

He can pinpoint the angles of machinegun fire from multiple weapons. I don't think this is much more difficult.

Originally posted by Melnorme
He can pinpoint the angles of machinegun fire from multiple weapons. I don't think this is much more difficult.

I think it is.

He's going to be very engaged and worried about real life opponents attacknig him, not just bullets.

Originally posted by scotsmn
I think it is.

He's going to be very engaged and worried about real life opponents attacknig him, not just bullets.

Show how a "real life opponent" is less life threatening, and more importantly, harder to dodge than a bullet.

What does "real life opponent" even mean? Are the bullets imaginary?

Originally posted by Melnorme
Show how a "real life opponent" is less life threatening, and more importantly, harder to dodge than a bullet.

What does "real life opponent" even mean? Are the bullets imaginary?

The bullets do not possess life whereas the opponents do.

And I'd say Sabretooth's claws are hadly "less threatening" than some slugs. Harder to dodge, no.

Yea...Spidey will know exactly what is coming his way.

And then react accordingly.

Originally posted by scotsmn
The bullets do not possess life whereas the opponents do.

And I'd say Sabretooth's claws are hadly "less threatening" than some slugs. Harder to dodge, no.

Bullets move faster than the speed of sound.

Sabretooth does not.

"Possessing life" is irrelevant.

You, sir, are dismissed.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
And then react accordingly.

Cyclops is wearing a weird costume in that one...

Originally posted by Melnorme
Cyclops is wearing a weird costume in that one...

Er...it's not Cyclops, dude.

Originally posted by Melnorme
Bullets move faster than the speed of sound.

Sabretooth does not.

"Possessing life" is irrelevant.

You, sir, are dismissed.

No, YOU have been dismissed Mr. "Imaginary bullets"

Sabretooth's claws will do more damage than a bullet. Disputing this? Ok good.

Bullets are faster than the speed of sound. This is true. All the more reason why Spidey won't be able to dodge them IF they are shot at him.
Speed of sound is like 775 mph. Spidey is fast, but not that fast.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Er...it's not Cyclops, dude.
Kidding!

(But who is that masked man, anyway?)

Originally posted by scotsmn
No, YOU have been dismissed Mr. "Imaginary bullets"

Sabretooth's claws will do more damage than a bullet. Disputing this? Ok good.

Bullets are faster than the speed of sound. This is true. All the more reason why Spidey won't be able to dodge them IF they are shot at him.
Speed of sound is like 775 mph. Spidey is fast, but not that fast.
So now Spider-Man can't dodge bullets?

Is Punisher just shooting blindly now? Otherwise, he's not going to hit Spiderman, not knowing where in the hell he is afterall. In fact, the only one I think Frank will be able to hit (and actually damage as opposed to Sabretooth) is Captain America.

Anyway, Spidey wins more often than not.

Hey, I'm just saying Punisher CAN get lucky and take a person or two out.

Originally posted by scotsmn
Hey, I'm just saying Punisher CAN get lucky and take a person or two out.

Are you also saying that Spider-Man can't dodge bullets?

Originally posted by Melnorme
Are you also saying that Spider-Man can't dodge bullets?

Mel you have a habit of asking questions OVER and OVER in multiple threads. Here is your answer since I know you'll never stop... geesh, it's like I'm married to you and you're asking me to throw out the trash.

NO! Spiderman can NOT dodge bullets in a 15' x 15' room. He CAN avoid being hit by moving BEFORE the bullet is ever fired. Satisfied?

Originally posted by scotsmn
Mel you have a habit of asking questions OVER and OVER in multiple threads. Here is your answer since I know you'll never stop... geesh, it's like I'm married to you and you're asking me to throw out the trash.

NO! Spiderman can NOT dodge bullets in a 15' x 15' room. He CAN avoid being hit by moving BEFORE the bullet is ever fired. Satisfied?

I'd be satisfied if you were correct.

Even only fifteen feet away, he still has plenty of room, especially because he'll know it's coming before it's shot.

And then...

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I'd be satisfied if you were correct.

Even only fifteen feet away, he still has plenty of room, especially because he'll know it's coming before it's shot.

And then...

.... um .. yes.. I believe I said he can avoid being hit if he avoids being in the line of fire. He can't dodge an already traveling bullet at that distance though.

Spider-Man'll be okay dodging bullets because his SS is pre-cog. Even firing blindly the bullets will have to start from somewhere and Spider-Man will be out of the way by then.

The upside is that the missed shots will ricochet which will increase Frank's chances of hitting someone, not Spider-Man though, including himself.

Still some mad raging fanboyism going on. NO ONE in this fight has a good chance of taking Sabes down in a normal fight, and those of you who insist Spiderman somehow maintains his usuall advantage in a 15x15 room against Sabes is a raging fanboy. For craps sake, no one in this fight even hits hard enough to take Sabes down.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Yea, but after finding out what kind of night vision Batman has, it makes sense now.

Sabretooth, on the other hand, utilizes animal-like night vision, like the night vision that a leopard or jaguar uses. And that night vision can't work in complete darkness. There must be some light in order for it to work.

Now, Sabes can still use his sense of hearing or his sense of smell in order to locate his targets. But I won't accept that he can use his own night vision to see.

What was the instance that Sabretooth was able to see in complete darkness that you're referring to?

when he fought daredevil, when he hunted down some hand ninjas to find wolverine and snuffed them out in the dark...

he has cat-like night vision.. but you have to remember it IS mutant nightvision.. there's no telling how it works... and it's already worked in complete dark to say he can't is being ignorant to what he's done in spite of blatant evidence that goes against your claims.

Originally posted by Melnorme
Bullets move faster than the speed of sound.

Sabretooth does not.

"Possessing life" is irrelevant.

You, sir, are dismissed.



irrelivent? ......which would be why sabretooth's dodged automatic gunfire from punisher?

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Still some mad raging fanboyism going on. NO ONE in this fight has a good chance of taking Sabes down in a normal fight, and those of you who insist Spiderman somehow maintains his usuall advantage in a 15x15 room against Sabes is a raging fanboy. For craps sake, no one in this fight even hits hard enough to take Sabes down.

exactly.. much less give him any lasting injury...

Originally posted by Melnorme
Kidding!

(But who is that masked man, anyway?) Basilisk. Not sure if I spelled that right.

Originally posted by jinzin
when he fought daredevil, when he hunted down some hand ninjas to find wolverine and snuffed them out in the dark...

he has cat-like night vision.. but you have to remember it IS mutant nightvision.. there's no telling how it works... and it's already worked in complete dark to say he can't is being ignorant to what he's done in spite of blatant evidence that goes against your claims.

What were some of the times when Sabretooth's night vision worked in complete darkness? I'm not calling you a liar, I'm just curious as to when those events happened. If I'm proved wrong, I'm proved wrong. I don't have a problem with that.

i just thought I told you...

I reckon Daredevil, seeing as the fight was basically in his pefect element. He knows when attacks are coming, and where everyone is, and who they are.

Punisher would go down first.
Then Cap.
Then Bats.
Then Sabretooth.
Then Spidey.
DD would be last man standing.

HOW does sabretooth go down? nobody here has what it takes to put him out of the fight.. in in this environment.

Originally posted by jinzin
HOW does sabretooth go down? nobody here has what it takes to put him out of the fight.. in in this environment. Did he beat DD? In the darkness?

^ When he fought DD it wasnt completly dark. And no, he didnt.

But i think its true about what was posted about Sabes eyesight. It is cat-like. If its completly dark with no light whatsoever, he shouldnt be able to see at all. Its not like the moon is out, and he can use that light. Its pitch black.

Originally posted by scotsmn
Mel you have a habit of asking questions OVER and OVER in multiple threads. Here is your answer since I know you'll never stop... geesh, it's like I'm married to you and you're asking me to throw out the trash.

NO! Spiderman can NOT dodge bullets in a 15' x 15' room. He CAN avoid being hit by moving BEFORE the bullet is ever fired. Satisfied?
Well, now that you're on record, let me crush this argument of yours...

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b391/melnorme_/15ftA.jpg
That's Spidey, dodging sustained automatic weapons fire from a targetting system on a supervillain. Range is no more than 15 feet.

Not gun-like enough?

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b391/melnorme_/15ftC.jpg
Dodging bullets that would be of approximately the same velocity as used by the Punisher in this scenario. Please note how little Spidey has to move his body overall.

Still not enough?
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b391/melnorme_/15ftB.jpg
Dodging sustained fire from multiple assault weapons, which are firing rounds whose muzzle velocity far exceeds that of a handgun. The assailants are firing from less than 15 feet away, and Spidey is moving less than 15 feet overall in that frame.

So, in summation, you're just wrong. Spidey can dodge bullets, even at that range, and in the dark. Thanks for playing!

Originally posted by jinzin


irrelivent? ......which would be why sabretooth's dodged automatic gunfire from punisher?

Straw man. Not my argument. Nice try, though.

BTW, got scans of that?

Originally posted by jinzin
i just thought I told you...

Nope, you didn't. Nowhere. Just checked.

Care to take that one back, then? Otherwise, got scans?

Originally posted by Melnorme
Well, now that you're on record, let me crush this argument of yours...

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b391/melnorme_/15ftA.jpg
That's Spidey, dodging sustained automatic weapons fire from a targetting system on a supervillain. Range is no more than 15 feet.

Not gun-like enough?

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b391/melnorme_/15ftC.jpg
Dodging bullets that would be of approximately the same velocity as used by the Punisher in this scenario. Please note how little Spidey has to move his body overall.

Still not enough?
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b391/melnorme_/15ftB.jpg
Dodging sustained fire from multiple assault weapons, which are firing rounds whose muzzle velocity far exceeds that of a handgun. The assailants are firing from less than 15 feet away, and Spidey is moving less than 15 feet overall in that frame.

So, in summation, you're just wrong. Spidey can dodge bullets, even at that range, and in the dark. Thanks for playing!

I think you're having reading comprehension trouble.. no offense. I'll summarize for you. Spiderman cannot DODGE bullets in motion. If he is out of the path of the bullet before it is fired he did NOT dodge it. He did NOT dodge it. He did NOT dodge. it.

The clip of those noobs with guns firing at him doesn't mean he is dodging bullets. He is most likely anticipating the line of fire and moving before they fire. Same goes for lasers.

Then he'll simply do the same thing here.

Originally posted by brainchild81
Then he'll simply do the same thing here.

Perhaps, IF he isn't too occupied fighting someone else to notice in time.

Originally posted by scotsmn
I think you're having reading comprehension trouble.. no offense. I'll summarize for you. Spiderman cannot DODGE bullets in motion. If he is out of the path of the bullet before it is fired he did NOT dodge it. He did NOT dodge it. He did NOT dodge. it.

He did. Just look. Three panels. Different authors, different eras. Your claims are irrelevant, and also, incorrect.

Originally posted by scotsmn
The clip of those noobs with guns firing at him doesn't mean he is dodging bullets. He is most likely anticipating the line of fire and moving before they fire. Same goes for lasers.
Actually, the fact that he is dodging the bullets speaks for itself.

Originally posted by scotsmn
Perhaps, IF he isn't too occupied fighting someone else to notice in time.

He doesn't need extra time. He can dodge attacks from multiple opponents just fine. This includes multiple assault rifle rounds, which I hasten to add, are both faster and more accurate than a handgun's.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b391/melnorme_/15ftB.jpg

That looks like, what, at least a half a dozen guys? And he's attacking at the same time? Spidey's got this, hands down.

Originally posted by Melnorme
Straw man. Not my argument. Nice try, though.

BTW, got scans of that?

actually, yeah it's not irrelivent.. it's completely on topic with what I was responding to which is possessing life... bullets are only as good as the person who's shooting them... however, they can't change direction in midair to seek out an opponent, while a person (like spidey for instance) can move out of their way due to possessing life... thus it's not irrelevant... you're just mistaken because you don't comprehend the connection... no

and yeah I do have scans.. they're in a spidey vs. sabretooth thread... you want em? go look for em...




and jrod.. the fight in the sewers was in the god damn pitchblack... there weren't exactly any lights down there.... if the artist drew black panals it would have made for a boring page... the hand ninja occurance... i need to go hunt that down.

Mel believes Spiderman can move in excess of 1300mph

Originally posted by jinzin
actually, yeah it's not irrelivent.. it's completely on topic with what I was responding to which is possessing life... bullets are only as good as the person who's shooting them... however, they can't change direction in midair to seek out an opponent, while a person (like spidey for instance) can move out of their way due to possessing life... thus it's not irrelevant... you're just mistaken because you don't comprehend the connection... no

People can't change direction in midair to seek out an opponent (well, Spiderman and many fliers can, but this doesn't help your case).

Ask anyone who knows about fighting. You also can't just "redirect" your punches midthrow and expect to do anything. That's why weaving is so very effective in boxing.

Bullets move in excess of the speed of sound. Some move at a couple of times the speed of sound, such as those fired from some rifles. Spider-Man dodges these with ease, as shown, at extremely close ranges, and from multiple attackers. Those also aren't noobs; they are trained mercenaries (who, might I add, managed pretty well to keep Wolverine in check).

"Possessing life" is an irrelevant red herring you're throwing in there. As shown through my rebuttals, you have not proven the point that it has any significant bearing on this debate. I'd say that my comprehension is spot on, despite your ad hominem attacks to the contrary.


If you can't provide evidence in this thread, I'm afraid that only hurts your case. I've provided my own scans, even for a no-brainer feat like Spidey dodging bullets. If you cannot do likewise, I'm afraid that's a concession.

Originally posted by Porsche
Mel believes Spiderman can move in excess of 1300mph

Wrong. That's a straw man. Quote where I said that.

Originally posted by Melnorme
People can't change direction in midair to seek out an opponent (well, Spiderman and many fliers can, but this doesn't help your case).

Ask anyone who knows about fighting. You also can't just "redirect" your punches midthrow and expect to do anything. That's why weaving is so very effective in boxing.

Bullets move in excess of the speed of sound. Some move at a couple of times the speed of sound, such as those fired from some rifles. Spider-Man dodges these with ease, as shown, at extremely close ranges, and from multiple attackers. Those also aren't noobs; they are trained mercenaries (who, might I add, managed pretty well to keep Wolverine in check).

"Possessing life" is an irrelevant red herring you're throwing in there. As shown through my rebuttals, you have not proven the point that it has any significant bearing on this debate. I'd say that my comprehension is spot on, despite your ad hominem attacks to the contrary. again ad hominem my ass.. if you fail to get the point that's not my fault...
I'm not attacking you for something irrelivent to the debate at hand..
now on to the argument you're presenting... changing direction in midair is certainly some anyone's capible of doing.. funny you should bring up fighting... guess what I've been doing for the last.. ohhh all my life... a jumping roundhouse back kick is just that: changing direction in midair.. it's something that is relatively easy to do.. it's of course impossible to change the direction of the momentum of your overall body, but that's not what you were talking about from what you said...

having life helps because you can move out of the way of bullets after they've been fired.. well... sabretooth can at least.. and the bullets don't follow him because they lack life.. it's totally rellivant to that particualr discussion but I agree to the debate of this thread it means nothing...


Originally posted by Melnorme
If you can't provide evidence in this thread, I'm afraid that only hurts your case. I've provided my own scans, even for a no-brainer feat like Spidey dodging bullets. If you cannot do likewise, I'm afraid that's a concession.

no it's not... it's laziness on both sides, mine for not wanting to scan, yours for not looking for scans I've already posted... I've already posted the damn scans.. plenty of people have seen the scans.. if you want to post em yourself the scans are out there in a sabretooth vs. spiderman thread... funny how you should mention proof too... guess you're not really familiar with how I get down eh?

Originally posted by Melnorme
Wrong. That's a straw man. Quote where I said that.





Originally posted by Melnorme
Dodging bullets that would be of approximately the same velocity as used by the Punisher in this scenario. Please note how little Spidey has to move his body overall.

Dodging sustained fire from multiple assault weapons, which are firing rounds whose muzzle velocity far exceeds that of a handgun. The assailants are firing from less than 15 feet away, and Spidey is moving less than 15 feet overall in that frame.

So, in summation, you're just wrong. Spidey can dodge bullets, even at that range, and in the dark. Thanks for playing!

You mentioned the speed of bullets is above the speed of sound no? I can dig that post up for you as well if you like. You also mentioned those rifles can go twice the speed of sound. Speed of sound at 75degrees F is 774.97 mph. Double that is around 1500. Those assault weapons are popping bullets at over 1300mph and you have just been owned.


Dodging bullets? NAY! Being out of their path before they are fired? YAY! PWNZORED? YAAAAAAy!!!

Originally posted by scotsmn
You mentioned the speed of bullets is above the speed of sound no? I can dig that post up for you as well if you like. You also mentioned those rifles can go twice the speed of sound. Speed of sound at 75degrees F is 774.97 mph. Double that is around 1500. Those assault weapons are popping bullets at over 1300mph and you have just been owned.


Dodging bullets? NAY! Being out of their path before they are fired? YAY! PWNZORED? YAAAAAAy!!!

He obviously isn't outrunning the bullets. He's moving to the side. You can run at me full tilt, say 10 mph, and I can move at 1 mph to the side and avoid you.

And, don't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back. Especially when you've just been shut down.

Originally posted by Melnorme
He obviously isn't outrunning the bullets. He's moving to the side. You can run at me full tilt, say 10 mph, and I can move at 1 mph to the side and avoid you.

And, don't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back. Especially when you've just been shut down.

I'm glad you admit your mistake

Originally posted by scotsmn
I'm glad you admit your mistake

I'm glad to see that you can lie to yourself so completely.

Oh, and for the record, that's still a straw man, I'm still right, you're still wrong, and Spider-Man would still probably win this.

Originally posted by jinzin
and jrod.. the fight in the sewers was in the god damn pitchblack... there weren't exactly any lights down there.... if the artist drew black panals it would have made for a boring page...

Ok so i guess the girl coulld see in the pitch black too huh?

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/835/ddvssabertooth56edited3vj.th.jpg

Originally posted by Melnorme
I'm glad to see that you can lie to yourself so completely.

Oh, and for the record, that's still a straw man, I'm still right, you're still wrong, and Spider-Man would still probably win this.

Who is this straw man you keep talking about?

You cannot face the fact that you are wrong.



You stated Spiderman dodges bullets.
Spiderman does not dodge bullets.

What does spiderman do to not get hit then?
He senses a gun being pointed at him and moves before the gun is fired.

None of the scans you posted show him in the path of a traveling bullet, then not being in the path. He is not faster than the speed of sound.

You were flat out wrong. Admit it.. I won't gloat. Just own up to your mistake.

Originally posted by Melnorme
I'm glad to see that you can lie to yourself so completely.

Oh, and for the record, that's still a straw man, I'm still right, you're still wrong, and Spider-Man would still probably win this.


"i'm right... because I say so... and I never strawman..."

Originally posted by jrodslam
Ok so i guess the girl coulld see in the pitch black too huh?

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/835/ddvssabertooth56edited3vj.th.jpg

that's not where sabretooth lured him to and you know it... they crashed through a wall to get to his lair which is where that is...

Originally posted by scotsmn
Who is this straw man you keep talking about?

You cannot face the fact that you are wrong.



You stated Spiderman dodges bullets.
Spiderman does not dodge bullets.

What does spiderman do to not get hit then?
He senses a gun being pointed at him and moves before the gun is fired.

None of the scans you posted show him in the path of a traveling bullet, then not being in the path. He is not faster than the speed of sound.

You were flat out wrong. Admit it.. I won't gloat. Just own up to your mistake.

yes

DAMMMMMMN scotsmn... spit that hot fire baby.

Originally posted by jinzin
that's not where sabretooth lured him to and you know it... they crashed through a wall to get to his lair which is where that is...

Well if you look at all the scans, which i know you have access to, youll see that when Sabertooth went to the sewers, which Daredevil was counting on, he stated that "many of the tunnels are pitch black."

However, the manhole was still open which lets some light in from the outside, so it still isnt COMPLETELY dark. Secondly, Sabertooth knew Daredevil's scent and waited behind a wall then jumped on him. He waited for DD's scent to get close. When they both finally exchanged blows, youd notice that Sabertooth swings wildly and never lays a hand on Daredevil in that exchange. Thats when Sabes gets punched through the wall. How do i know? Look at Daredevil's costume. No slashes in it save for the times when they were ABOVE the sewers and Daredevil recieved a slash in his back and on his left shoulder.

The last three will likely be Spidey, DD, and Sabes. Sabes will be @ a severe disadvantage because he can't really see in the dark. Spidey's got the Spidey sense and DD's got radar. DD will likely be using Cap's shield and he and Spidey will take turns striking Sabes. Sabes face will be webbed up and he will be unable to breathe. He'll also have to deal w/DD crushing his windpipe w/the club or the shield. He'll be getting holes punched in his stomach & back also. He'll eventually pass out or die. Probably one and then the other. Then Spidey overwhelms DD with his speed and KO's him. DD will be more tired than Spidey is due to Spidey's stamina being superhuman.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Well if you look at all the scans, which i know you have access to, youll see that when Sabertooth went to the sewers, which Daredevil was counting on, he stated that "many of the tunnels are pitch black."

However, the manhole was still open which lets some light in from the outside, so it still isnt COMPLETELY dark. Secondly, Sabertooth knew Daredevil's scent and waited behind a wall then jumped on him. He waited for DD's scent to get close. When they both finally exchanged blows, youd notice that Sabertooth swings wildly and never lays a hand on Daredevil in that exchange. Thats when Sabes gets punched through the wall. How do i know? Look at Daredevil's costume. No slashes in it save for the times when they were ABOVE the sewers and Daredevil recieved a slash in his back and on his left shoulder.

exactly where they fell into was pitch black, where they came from was an alley in the middle of the night.. there was no where near enough light to travel and adequatly light the area... none whatsoever... as for the rest. I'll have to look at the book again... i seem to remember dd getting tackled...

Originally posted by brainchild81
The last three will likely be Spidey, DD, and Sabes. Sabes will be @ a severe disadvantage because he can't really see in the dark. Spidey's got the Spidey sense and DD's got radar. DD will likely be using Cap's shield and he and Spidey will take turns striking Sabes. Sabes face will be webbed up and he will be unable to breathe. He'll also have to deal w/DD crushing his windpipe w/the club or the shield. He'll be getting holes punched in his stomach & back also. He'll eventually pass out or die. Probably one and then the other. Then Spidey overwhelms DD with his speed and KO's him. DD will be more tired than Spidey is due to Spidey's stamina being superhuman.

spidey sense isn't nearly on par with dd's radar sense.. ot even close..

he can't exactly see what he's webbing, so him webbing sabes in the face when there's multitudes of others in the room and he can't see what he's hitting is a grasp.

shooting webbing could actually work against him more than it could help here... he could just as easily run into his own webbing...

spiderman can't do ANYTHING physically to sabretooth to put hi down.. neither can dd.... even if sabretooth was wildly slashing about (not that he would being the stalker he is) he'd still be more likely to come out of this on top.. but I think everyone's assuming he's just some dumbass wildman here.... he's not... people need to realize this is his element...

Yes he is(I kid) If Spidey can send a punch straight to Wolvies face w/the Spidey sense. Why not webs to Sabes? Spidey is a damn good shot w/that s*it. The rest of the cats in the room are already dead or KOed. Sabes can still have organs removed too. Is his skin way more durable than I think it is? Spidey sense is better in some ways than DD's radar. DD's radar is better in some ways than Spidey sense. You have any proof that Spidey can't kill Sabes? Spidey ever tried to before?

Originally posted by jinzin
exactly where they fell into was pitch black, where they came from was an alley in the middle of the night.. there was no where near enough light to travel and adequatly light the area... none whatsoever... as for the rest. I'll have to look at the book again... i seem to remember dd getting tackled...

Actually, the man-hole wasnt in the alley. It was in the street. They were in the alley, then Sabes speard DD into the side-walk where to old couple was walking. After getting the combo from DD, Sabes was then punched into the street where he then went in the sewers. Sabes has cat-like vision. He wouldnt be able to see in the complete darkness.



Originally posted by jinzin
spidey sense isn't nearly on par with dd's radar sense.. ot even close..

he can't exactly see what he's webbing, so him webbing sabes in the face when there's multitudes of others in the room and he can't see what he's hitting is a grasp.

shooting webbing could actually work against him more than it could help here... he could just as easily run into his own webbing...

spiderman can't do ANYTHING physically to sabretooth to put hi down.. neither can dd.... even if sabretooth was wildly slashing about (not that he would being the stalker he is) he'd still be more likely to come out of this on top.. but I think everyone's assuming he's just some dumbass wildman here.... he's not... people need to realize this is his element...

I agree with the Spiderman part. However, Batman and Daredevil are both capable of seeing in complete darkness and i do believe they can take down Sabes together.

Originally posted by brainchild81
Yes he is If Spidey can send a punch straight to Wolvies face w/the Spidey sense. Why not webs to Sabes? Spidey is a damn good shot w/that s*it. Sabes can still have organs removed too. Is his skin way more durable than I think it is? Spidey sense is better in some ways than DD's radar. DD's radar is better in some ways than Spidey sense. You have any proof that Spidey can't kill Sabes? Spidey ever tried to before?
organs removed? if anyone's getting that close to sabretooth they're already as good as dead.. as for spidey hitting logan in the face, that's a good deal different than hitting someone with webs...

Originally posted by jinzin
organs removed? if anyone's getting that close to sabretooth they're already as good as dead.. as for spidey hitting logan in the face, that's a good deal different than hitting someone with webs... How exactly? And Spidey's not as good as dead. Sabes won't be able to get a fix on him.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Actually, the man-hole wasnt in the alley. It was in the street. They were in the alley, then Sabes speard DD into the side-walk where to old couple was walking. After getting the combo from DD, Sabes was then punched into the street where he then went in the sewers. Sabes has cat-like vision. He wouldnt be able to see in the complete darkness. dude look at that book again.. one there are no street lights on that street, two there's no indication that was a street could've been another alley.... i mean there's no street lamps or anything... three it's indicated that sabretooth had been in the sewers for some duration trying to throw dd off... dd claimed those tunnels were pitch black.. it WAS COMPLETELY DARK...





Originally posted by jrodslam
I agree with the Spiderman part. However, Batman and Daredevil are both capable of seeing in complete darkness and i do believe they can take down Sabes together. i don't see how.. maybe if batman.. wait minute... this fight starts out and batman just gases the entire room.. end of fight right there...

Originally posted by brainchild81
How exactly? And Spidey's not as good as dead. Sabes won't be able to get a fix on him.

how? cause fighting someone hand tohand is a lot different than hitting them with a projectile.... hell even I can put up a decent scrap blindfolded... but I doubt I could hit anyone with a dodgball using the same meathod...

and yeah, he's as good as dead. sabretooth's faster and is almost guaranteed a one hit kill or KO. not to mention, spider's spider sense will be going crazy due to the fact that it's not just him and sabes in the the room but a contorium of other heroes and the like.

Originally posted by jinzin
how? cause fighting someone hand tohand is a lot different than hitting them with a projectile.... hell even I can put up a decent scrap blindfolded... but I doubt I could hit anyone with a dodgball using the same meathod...

and yeah, he's as good as dead. sabretooth's faster and is almost guaranteed a one hit kill or KO. not to mention, spider's spider sense will be going crazy due to the fact that it's not just him and sabes in the the room but a contorium of other heroes and the like. The others are dead or KOed. I doubt if Sabes is faster, but even if he is, Spidey's dodging his attacks before he even throws 'em and Sabes can't see. The chances of him landing an attack are very low. Spidey's a surgeon with those things. If he can land a punch, why can't he just stop short and use webs instead?

Originally posted by brainchild81
The others are dead or KOed. no that's your best case scenario...

everyone has a best case scenario here but it's ot what's most likely to happen.. in fact batman gassing the whole room is more probable.

Originally posted by brainchild81
I doubt if Sabes is faster, but even if he is,
which he is.. he was already faster before upgrades.. why wouldn't he be ater them?

Originally posted by brainchild81
Spidey's dodging his attacks before he even throws 'em spidey doesn't even dodge attacks before they're thrown when he can see how the hell does that change here?

Originally posted by brainchild81
and Sabes can't see
umm yes yes he can... that's a false hope which has cannon evidence going against it sorry... aside from that he's also sportig his superior hearing and sense of smell which allows him to pinpoint targets in pitchblack caves from 200 yards away apparently...

Originally posted by brainchild81
The chances of him landing an attack are very low.

yet they're still higher than that of spiderman being able to incapacitate sabes before he lands a blow...

Originally posted by brainchild81
Spidey's a surgeon with those things.

when he can see..

Originally posted by brainchild81
If he can land a punch, why can't he just stop short and use webs instead? I just explained why..

Originally posted by jinzin
dude look at that book again.. one there are no street lights on that street, two there's no indication that was a street could've been another alley.... i mean there's no street lamps or anything... three it's indicated that sabretooth had been in the sewers for some duration trying to throw dd off... dd claimed those tunnels were pitch black.. it WAS COMPLETELY DARK...

There are no street lights on that street? So the old couple that they ran into was just walking in a alley? Its clear that they ran went out into the sidewalk hence the old couple and fire hydrant. Secondly, Sabertooth was trying to throw DD off, but DD was right on his trail the whole time. Hince Sabertooth saying "I cant shake him.". Also DD stated that many of the tunnels were pitch black. Not all. Theres a difference. So no it wasnt completely black. Just very dark. Just for arguements sake, les say they all were completely dark, Sabertooth couldnt even lay a hand on DD.

Originally posted by jrodslam
There are no street lights on that street? So the old couple that they ran into was just walking in a alley? Its clear that they ran went out into the sidewalk hence the old couple and fire hydrant. Secondly, Sabertooth was trying to throw DD off, but DD was right on his trail the whole time. Hince Sabertooth saying "I cant shake him.". Also DD stated that many of the tunnels were pitch black. Not all. Theres a difference. So no it wasnt completely black. Just very dark. Just for arguements sake, les say they all were completely dark, Sabertooth couldnt even lay a hand on DD.

the old couple could've been walking out of their apartment through the backdoor.. you are aware that building have backdoors right?

there weren't any stree lights anywhere.. that's as clear as day... (or night rather)


I'm not arguing that daredevil couldn't be shaken off his trail... but they did go far beyond that manwhole or any existing light that could have come through it.. and finally sabretooth did land hits after he got a tackle hence all the slashing and punching noises they made when they colided..

Whatever, to DareDevil the greatest fighter in the room this fight is as clear as one of us fighting during the day. As a matter of fact if you read the comic series called "Marvel Universe," it says even though he is blind his radar sense makes fighting even more clear then human sight. Spiderman is going after the Punisher, but Sabertooth will use Frank as bait and catch Peter and throw him off balance. Meanwhile Batman is using Sabertooth and Spideys fight against them and sneaks in. Spiderman is destined to lose. Then Captain America gets his neck snapped by DareDevil. THE END

Batman isnt gonna fight DareDevil in the dark.

Originally posted by jinzin
no that's your best case scenario...

everyone has a best case scenario here but it's ot what's most likely to happen.. in fact batman gassing the whole room is more probable.


which he is.. he was already faster before upgrades.. why wouldn't he be ater them?

spidey doesn't even dodge attacks before they're thrown when he can see how the hell does that change here?


umm yes yes he can... that's a false hope which has cannon evidence going against it sorry... aside from that he's also sportig his superior hearing and sense of smell which allows him to pinpoint targets in pitchblack caves from 200 yards away apparently...



yet they're still higher than that of spiderman being able to incapacitate sabes before he lands a blow...



when he can see..

I just explained why.. Not really. You're a martial artist. What are weapons considered extensions of? Spidey is very experienced w/the webs and has extremely high accuracy. It's not like they can't be used up close and as I said, If he can land a punch, why can't he just stop short and use webs instead? It's not like he was just swinging wild w/his punches in that fight they were right on target otherwise Wolvie may have evaded them. Batman can gas the room, but Spidey's held his breath before against gas(He was fighting Hobby w/out the Spidey sense and it came back in time to warn him of a gas attack) Others(Sabes and DD for sure, probably everybody) will likely hear the fsssssss sound and do the same. Spidey sense is precog Jinzin. He does dodge punches before they are thrown

Originally posted by scotsmn
Who is this straw man you keep talking about?

You cannot face the fact that you are wrong.

The "straw man" is your argument against Spider-Man's ability to dodge bullets. Your assertion is that Spider-Man must be able to move faster than the speed of a bullet in order to evade it, an argument that is demonstrably false.

Originally posted by scotsmn
You stated Spiderman dodges bullets.
Spiderman does not dodge bullets.
I didn't just state it. I showed scans. Argue against the authors.

Originally posted by scotsmn
What does spiderman do to not get hit then?
He senses a gun being pointed at him and moves before the gun is fired.
In most cases. He can move quickly enough to get out of the path of a bullet in flight. He does it all the time. Remember, he's not actually outrunning the bullets, he's moving laterally.

Originally posted by scotsmn
None of the scans you posted show him in the path of a traveling bullet, then not being in the path. He is not faster than the speed of sound.
The same could be said of any scan of any character dodging a bullet. It's a comic, not a motion picture.

Originally posted by scotsmn
You were flat out wrong. Admit it.. I won't gloat. Just own up to your mistake.
I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong. Apparently, that makes one of us.

Good luck with the Straw Men and the wildly speculative take on how Spider-Man avoids bullets. I can see it's winning everyone over to your way of thinking, which is of course the earmark of a compelling argument.

Originally posted by jinzin
yes

DAMMMMMMN scotsmn... spit that hot fire baby.

Aw, you're just grouchy with me because I keep making you look like an idiot in front of the other kids. Come on now. We can still be friends. Would it help if I said I'm sorry?

DareDevil dodges, blocks, catches them, and throws them back.

Originally posted by Melnorme
Aw, you're just grouchy with me because I keep making you look like an idiot in front of the other kids. Come on now. We can still be friends. Would it help if I said I'm sorry?

after what you just said?



lol.. those are some nice delusions you're sufferin though..

Originally posted by jinzin
after what you just said?
Well, I didn't actually say I'm sorry. Not that I even would. I just asked if it would help...you know, with the bruised ego.

Originally posted by jinzin
the old couple could've been walking out of their apartment through the backdoor.. you are aware that building have backdoors right?

Ok, its late at night. The old couple has to be at least in their 60's. Where the hell are they going? 9 times out of 10 they are going home. Leaving through the backdoor my ass. Secondly, its New York city, and there are buildings on the whole block, you saying there arent any street lights cause there was none shown in the page? And the old couple knows this, yet decide to go out anyway through the back door, with no street lights around? Yea, right.

Originally posted by jinzin
I'm not arguing that daredevil couldn't be shaken off his trail... but they did go far beyond that manwhole or any existing light that could have come through it.. and finally sabretooth did land hits after he got a tackle hence all the slashing and punching noises they made when they colided..

There are holes in sewer tops. That means there are bits of light everywhere. Despite the "slash" phrases, I highly doubt Sabertooth was connecting, hence the fact that there were no slash marks on Daredevil besides the ones that were BEFORE going in the sewers. Unless we both agree that Daredevil can take 3 head on slashes, and not be phased at all, then still punch Sabertooth through a brick wall?

Ouch, thats worse then a low blow.