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Well? Do you feel the police in your area is doing their job? Or do we need to concentrate on getting these gang members programs that will help them improve socially and economically?

Not too long ago, I was surprise to hear that there are gangs in cities like London and Paris. How did this happen? I can understand the issue being a problem in 3rd world countries...but in advance (using the term losely) Nations?

What should be done to prevent Gang increase and violence?

Originally posted by WindDancer
Well? Do you feel the police in your area is their job? Or do we need to concentrate on getting these gang members programs that will help them improve socially and economically?

Not too long ago, I was surprise to hear that there are gangs in cities like London and Paris. How did this happen? I can understand the issue being a problem in 3rd world countries...but in advance (using the the term losely) Nations?

What should be done to prevent Gang increase and violence?

London basically invented rioting - I am a Millwall fan

That aside We have occasional riots on "Estates" but these tend to stay on the Estates - A bit like the LA riots as I understand them.

Rioting is usually symptomatic of social disease or in the case of things Rodney King riots Injustice or in the case of the UK poll tax riots dissatisfaction with Government.

Society will never let or cities be ruled by gangs, at least not in the uK.

Originally posted by Ron Jeremy
London basically invented rioting - I am a Millwall fan

w007 you all got banned from leicester.

Originally posted by eggmayo
w007 you all got banned from leicester.

and Cardiff

I used to have "Sarf Lundun" home of Millwall FC as my location here

Originally posted by WindDancer
Well? Do you feel the police in your area is doing their job? Or do we need to concentrate on getting these gang members programs that will help them improve socially and economically?

Not too long ago, I was surprise to hear that there are gangs in cities like London and Paris. How did this happen? I can understand the issue being a problem in 3rd world countries...but in advance (using the term losely) Nations?

What should be done to prevent Gang increase and violence?
Hell no. I live in Canada.

Originally posted by Ron Jeremy
London basically invented rioting - I am a Millwall fan

That aside We have occasional riots on "Estates" but these tend to stay on the Estates - A bit like the LA riots as I understand them.

Rioting is usually symptomatic of social disease or in the case of things Rodney King riots Injustice or in the case of the UK poll tax riots dissatisfaction with Government.

Society will never let or cities be ruled by gangs, at least not in the uK.
woah woah woah....the LA riots were in my backyard, so I know alil about them...nobody should have to go through that. THat was definetly a scary time.

and as far as if im afraid theyll take over my city. not really. my neighborhood consisted of 2 rival gangs. and they pretty much only went after each other. there are other pieces of sh1t gangs that are more tagging crews, but no i"m not all too scared about them taking over. Mostly because of the fact that my neighborhood was pretty close nit. There was a lot of community in there, so I wouldnt really be surprised if the mothers came out with shotguns just to protect "their turf"

Originally posted by a1hsauce
woah woah woah....the LA riots were in my backyard, so I know alil about them...nobody should have to go through that. THat was definetly a scary time.

and as far as if im afraid theyll take over my city. not really. my neighborhood consisted of 2 rival gangs. and they pretty much only went after each other. there are other pieces of sh1t gangs that are more tagging crews, but no i"m not all too scared about them taking over. Mostly because of the fact that my neighborhood was pretty close nit. There was a lot of community in there, so I wouldnt really be surprised if the mothers came out with shotguns just to protect "their turf"

We had riots in London before you had a nation

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/timelines/britain/geo_gordon_riots.shtml

but thats by the by

we have always had gang riots in London a notorious episode from the eigties

http://www.met.police.uk/history/broadwater_farm.htm

gang riots of a type you Americans can't comprehend, International european gang violence

http://users.skynet.be/terrorism/html/hooliganism.htm

but they can never take over - "the rule of law" would not allow it

Originally posted by Ron Jeremy
We had riots in London before you had a nation

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/timelines/britain/geo_gordon_riots.shtml

but thats by the by

we have always had gang riots in London a notorious episode from the eigties

http://www.met.police.uk/history/broadwater_farm.htm

gang riots of a type you Americans can't comprehend

http://users.skynet.be/terrorism/html/hooliganism.htm

but they can never take over - "the rule of law" would not allow it
throw it in my face my nations still a baby why dont yaglare

Originally posted by Ron Jeremy
We had riots in London before you had a nation

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/timelines/britain/geo_gordon_riots.shtml

but thats by the by

we have always had gang riots in London a notorious episode from the eigties

http://www.met.police.uk/history/broadwater_farm.htm

gang riots of a type you Americans can't comprehend

http://users.skynet.be/terrorism/html/hooliganism.htm

you must be so proud.....

Originally posted by MetallicaT
you must be so proud.....

certainly not - it does show though that gang violence has been prevelant and serious for a long time in Europe and it never takes over.

Whats worse is we sell DVD's of it on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/stone-MILLWALL-BUSHWHACKERS-DVD-island- burberry_W0QQitemZ6446474822QQcategoryZ42854QQcmdZ
ViewItem

my town must be mafia runned, i dont know.
all i know is its nestled between newark and passaic,
which both get rough, and is crawling with gangs.

not one of them passes through my town.
coincidence?

as far as gangs, its a product of degeneration.
there are exceptions, but many gangmembers come
from functionless families. people expect a quick fix
but that cant happen. its a product of poverty eroding
families over many generations. how do you just cure that?

Originally posted by DarkC
Hell no. I live in Canada.

Time to pull your head out of the sand, it is becoming a problem in Canada also, we just seem to hide it better.

Originally posted by PVS
my town must be mafia runned, i dont know.
all i know is its nestled between newark and passaic,
which both get rough, and is crawling with gangs.

not one of them passes through my town.
coincidence?

as far as gangs, its a product of degeneration.
there are exceptions, but many gangmembers come
from functionless families. people expect a quick fix
but that cant happen. its a product of poverty eroding
families over many generations. how do you just cure that?

In your opinion perhaps - not for one type of gang violence we have in the UK and Europe.

http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2004/05/07/story146601.asp

Some violence is a result of moral panics and folk devils

https://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=13600

sometimes riots and rioters have valid reasons

http://www.plastic.com/article.html;sid=04/09/16/05322236;mode=nested;nobar=1

never just one simple answer PVS you should realise that

The KKK is practically in my backyard do they qualify as a gang if not I would like to nominate them to go on the gang list.

When I lived in Washington DC the nations capital there were alot of rough spots and "gangs" did they overrun the city? Only at night did they try and police in riot gear on most street corners between 8th and I

Its a problem in Toronto for sure, but hey at least we are super worried about instead of saying oh it happens in big cities.

Originally posted by soleran30
The KKK is practically in my backyard do they qualify as a gang if not I would like to nominate them to go on the gang list.

When I lived in Washington DC the nations capital there were alot of rough spots and "gangs" did they overrun the city? Only at night did they try and police in riot gear on most street corners between 8th and I

of course they do, they are a big gang

Originally posted by WindDancer
Well? Do you feel the police in your area is doing their job? Or do we need to concentrate on getting these gang members programs that will help them improve socially and economically?

Not too long ago, I was surprise to hear that there are gangs in cities like London and Paris. How did this happen? I can understand the issue being a problem in 3rd world countries...but in advance (using the term losely) Nations?

What should be done to prevent Gang increase and violence?

No really, i know theres no wat they gonna take over LA, Ny, or Stamford. Its too hard. And yea im in a gang by the way. When ever i go to the projects, i feel like im at home. ((PERU))

Peru 4 life homie!

I think I prefer gangs to gangs of chavs. Gangs at least scare me.

Originally posted by WindDancer
Well? Do you feel the police in your area is doing their job? Or do we need to concentrate on getting these gang members programs that will help them improve socially and economically?

Not too long ago, I was surprise to hear that there are gangs in cities like London and Paris. How did this happen? I can understand the issue being a problem in 3rd world countries...but in advance (using the term losely) Nations?

What should be done to prevent Gang increase and violence?

London been had gangs. Like Yardies and Triads

England's always had gangs.

Originally posted by eggmayo
England's always had gangs.

yup always

Originally posted by Ron Jeremy
yup always

Always

No.

No?

i fear no gangs. they are out there and are a danger, so that is why i have recently armed myself....*caresses .45 longslide*

Originally posted by WindDancer
Well? Do you feel the police in your area is doing their job? Or do we need to concentrate on getting these gang members programs that will help them improve socially and economically?

Not too long ago, I was surprise to hear that there are gangs in cities like London and Paris. How did this happen? I can understand the issue being a problem in 3rd world countries...but in advance (using the term losely) Nations?

What should be done to prevent Gang increase and violence?

Police in Easy Sussex are doing their job - some better than others, but they are doing their job.
There are chavs everywhere, but thats as far as the gangs around here will get.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Police in Easy Sussex are doing their job - some better than others, but they are doing their job.
There are chavs everywhere, but thats as far as the gangs around here will get.

Are you in Brighton

in my experience, gangbangers are sissies.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Are you in Brighton

I am yes.

And Easy = East

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
in my experience, gangbangers are sissies.

please tell me about your gangbang experiences

my experiences? well, i used to hang with a gang of cholo's. i wasnt part of their gang, but a few members love me like a brother. i was at a party with them when a group of black guys rolled up and started shit. one of them saw me and started pushing me around. when i pushed back, he backed down, cuz his homies werent there to get his back, they were to busy fighting my friends.
bottom line: gangbangers join gangs cuz they cant fight their own battles. the guys i ran with with were an exception. they werent really a "gang." they were just a group of closely knit individuals.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
my experiences? well, i used to hang with a gang of cholo's. i wasnt part of their gang, but a few members love me like a brother. i was at a party with them when a group of black guys rolled up and started shit. one of them saw me and started pushing me around. when i pushed back, he backed down, cuz his homies werent there to get his back, they were to busy fighting my friends.
bottom line: gangbangers join gangs cuz they cant fight their own battles. the guys i ran with with were an exception. they werent really a "gang." they were just a group of closely knit individuals.

So your gang used to sort out these other guys - they sound tough -Anyone get stabbed or shot in this confrontation?

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
please tell me about your gangbang experiences

How about yours?

Originally posted by Inspectah Deck
How about yours?

I avoid gang bangs you can catch diseases to easily

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
I avoid gang bangs you can catch diseases to easily

What kind of dieases?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I am yes.

And Easy = East

Falmer or Moulscoumb as I suspect your a student

Not stalking just interested.

Originally posted by eggmayo
w007 you all got banned from leicester.

Yo dude! You from Leics?

So am I!

Originally posted by Inspectah Deck
What kind of dieases?


The usual you get from Gang Bangs

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
Yo dude! You from Leics?

So am I!

I went to Universtiy in Nottingham I knew Leicester many years ago

I'm going Nottingham for my staff christmas party in a week.

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
I'm going Nottingham for my staff christmas party in a week.

Its still a great night out I expect I have not been up for ages, I used to live in the Meadows area - quite near Trent Bridge.

Ooooh dear... you do know about gangs then!

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
Ooooh dear... you do know about gangs then!

I grew up in New Cross South East London its 10 times worse than the Meadows trust me

lol. I'm glad I live out in the countrysoyde. Proper rural faaarmer country.

I do now on the Kent/ South London border its much nicer - having said that all the real Gangsters live out here so your pretty safe. In real I mean rich.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
The usual you get from Gang Bangs

yes,i'm under the bed now

yeah i have seen a few gangs. But a friend of mine in the US says gang violence is much worse there. People actually get shot and murdered over a turf war.

New Jersey has a lot of gangs;where i used to live in Irvington,there was a lot of bloods.There's gangbangers here in Plainfield,but it's still not as bad as Newark and East Orange

Originally posted by ash007
yeah i have seen a few gangs. But a friend of mine in the US says gang violence is much worse there. People actually get shot and murdered over a turf war. hell yeah,i know people who go to my high school who were shot

Gangs in the USA have been on the decline for a decade now. While they will always be there their heyday is past.

hell yea we got crips gds vicelord out here on the westside and 4 courner hustlers but i'm ok now becuse i live in the suburbs but when i use to live on the westside they use to collect funds and kill u or tek someone from ur family but i'm fine now i live in suburbs

Originally posted by Black Rob
New Jersey has a lot of gangs;where i used to live in Irvington,there was a lot of bloods.There's gangbangers here in Plainfield,but it's still not as bad as Newark and East Orange

Cause New Jersey is the shithole of the United States.

yea lol

Beglium doesn't have a gang problem. But I think you said it WD the way to get rid of that problem (partially cause it will never go away completely) is to help them to improve socially and economicaly

Were are staring to have a problem with gangs over in Toronto.
Its a problem but its not a crisis. 70 murders in a city of 2.5 million is no where near other major cities.

Originally posted by JacopeX
No really, i know theres no wat they gonna take over LA, Ny, or Stamford. Its too hard. And yea im in a gang by the way. When ever i go to the projects, i feel like im at home. ((PERU))

Peru 4 life homie! ahhahahaha the fake gansta is here guyz.

Originally posted by KidRock
Cause New Jersey is the shithole of the United States. And you my friend are the shithead of the United States

Originally posted by WindDancer
Well? Do you feel the police in your area is doing their job? Or do we need to concentrate on getting these gang members programs that will help them improve socially and economically?

Not too long ago, I was surprise to hear that there are gangs in cities like London and Paris. How did this happen? I can understand the issue being a problem in 3rd world countries...but in advance (using the term losely) Nations?

What should be done to prevent Gang increase and violence? I liv in CA, the most dangerous state of all in the US. I know there's no vigilantes lurking around but I do hope that gangs will decrease in the future. I dont want my children to live in a city full of gangs. There are gangs in my middle school. I believe that if parents pay attention to their kids or at least spend time with them on homework then they would turn into a good student. But nearly everyone in my school have a gangsta look and im afraid its gonna happen to the whole world.

Originally posted by WindDancer
Well? Do you feel the police in your area is doing their job? Or do we need to concentrate on getting these gang members programs that will help them improve socially and economically?

Not too long ago, I was surprise to hear that there are gangs in cities like London and Paris. How did this happen? I can understand the issue being a problem in 3rd world countries...but in advance (using the term losely) Nations?

What should be done to prevent Gang increase and violence?
No, but I live in a neighborhood with 3/4 colored people that are ganster and they come back the street until 3.30 in the morning with their loud stereo systems and such. The cops come back here sometimes. And speaking of gangsters I dont know how it started but my friends were at the Skate Park and these colored people started coming up to the Skate Park (and they were big ass guys too) and started bustin caps and all that. I didnt get involved or anything, but it was just stupid. Some of my friends got hurt and there were even knives involved. Nothing serious or anything.

Originally posted by DanieLs_4_Ever
No, but I live in a neighborhood with 3/4 colored people that are ganster and they come back the street until 3.30 in the morning with their loud stereo systems and such. The cops come back here sometimes. And speaking of gangsters I dont know how it started but my friends were at the Skate Park and these colored people started coming up to the Skate Park (and they were big ass guys too) and started bustin caps and all that. I didnt get involved or anything, but it was just stupid. Some of my friends got hurt and there were even knives involved. Nothing serious or anything. No offense,but why don't you just say black instead of colored?

Maybe the government should do something about this.
People don't riot or gangbangin' for no apperant reason. But politicians usually ignore the people and problems until it's too late. (just look at 9/11 and France recently)

Of course the socker riots over at England can't be stopped. They all organise those for plain fun.

I believe the cops should just react better. The problem in areas with a lot of gangbangers is the cops' unwillingness to handle problems.Most of the time they wait until someone who isn't from the ghetto gets attacked and then try to stop the problem.In my neighborhood it takes the cops about an hour to respond to anything,AND I'M RIGHT DOWN THE STREET FROM THE POLICE STATION!!! I mean i can literally have a 5 minute walk to the station but if someone gets killed i have to wait a freaking hour.It's just ridiculous.

Yeah, they are clearly not doing their jobs correctly..
They'll probably create more frustration and people feeling powerless..

I was hoping someone would mention Anthony Burgess book for this discussion. Gangs are the our darkest future.

WindDancer, do you live in CA?

Set up like a secret society's lodge, this gallery brings the visitors into the house of the Ghee Hin Society. Visitors can expect an interesting display of rare and original ritual objects used by the Ghee Hin Society, otherwise known as the Hung Society members during initiation ceremonies in 19th century Singapore. It was established in 1820 and is believed to be the oldest Chinese secret society in Singapore.

Background of Chinese Secret Societies

Chinese secret societies are believed to have originated from China. While those in China began with the political aim of overthrowing the Qing and restoring the Ming dynasty in China, those that sprouted in Singapore were less politically charged. Initially, secret societies operated as an economic and social organisation for the Chinese immigrant community. It provided financial aid, remittance services, protection for the weak, religious ceremonies, and burials. However, as the number of secret societies increased, the need to protect themselves from rival societies intensified. This prompted each secret society to stake its territorial claims. They controlled the streets dominated by their respective dialect groups and occupational specialisations.



One of the main activities of the secret societies was the collection of "protection" fees from shopkeepers, itinerant hawkers, petty traders, prostitutes, and operators of gambling and opium-smoking dens.


Secret societies became a menace to Singapore during the 1840s. They were the cause of several large-scale riots in the next few decades. In the wake of those violent outbreaks, the Protectorate of Chinese was created in 1877. Secret societies were required to register their organisations. They were actually outlawed in 1889 after a murderous attack on the Chinese Protector, William Pickering in 1877. However, this did not eradicate the secret society problem.










After the Japanese Occupation, secret society crimes were still prevalent, with daily occurrences of gang fights and settlement talks. The Criminal Investigation Department was reorganised in 1954 to create a separate Secret Societies Branch in order to wage a brisk campaign against the gangs. Today, secret societies comprise loosely-formed groups of wayward youths. However, unlike the traditional secret societies, youth gangs no longer observe any gang code of ethics or practise initiation ceremonies.

http://www.footballmotion.com/files/GANGSTER.swf
Gang poem from singapore

YOU don't disturb my territory, and I don't disturb your territory.

That was how secret societies operated in Singapore in the 1950s and the 1960s. Gangland activities were rampant then.

Mr Harmon Singh recalls "those bad old days":

"When I first joined (the police force) in the beginning of 1959, I found out that secret societies were rampant. Organised crime, secret societies and gangland clashes were almost a daily affair, and there were gangs all over Singapore. Certain areas were worst than others. I got deeply involved in solving crimes and curbing secret society activities."

"In the course of dealing with the underworld, I learned that there were a few major secret society groups in Singapore. The main ones were groups like the 108, 24, 32 and 36, and the triad societies. Each of these major groups had splinter branches under them, for example, the 108 group had gangs like the Pek Kim Leng."

Click to listen to RealAudio.

Gangs were divided according to different areas in Singapore. The various gangs and their splinter groups were engaged in protection rackets, vice activities, prostitution and extortion in their respective "territories".

A gang would control many of the businesses operating in its area - like four-digit lotteries, opium dens, brothels and gambling dens. As some areas were controlled by different gangs, violent clashes often broke out between the groups.

A table of hot-spots for secret society activities: Who control where
Ang Peh Hor Jalan Membina, Tiong Bahru
Ang Soon Tong 10-milestone Nee Soon area to end of Sembawang
Hai Lock San Tiong Bahru, Seng Poh Road
Leng Hor San Covent Garden, Havelock Road
Pek Kim Leng Bugis, Chinatown
Sar Ji Boat Quay, Mohd Sultan, Kim Yam, River Valley Road
See Tong North Bridge Road, Beach Road, former Odeon Theatre area, Seah Street
Sio Oh Leng Ganges Avenue, River Valley Road

Even the "fairer sex" was not left out. All-women gangs, like the Ang Hor Tiap (or Red Butterfly Gang), were very common during the '60s and the '70s.

"They consisted mainly of cabaret girls, bar girls and hostesses," said Mr Singh. "Usually girls who were jilted by their lovers or who had had some unpleasant experiences with men. They were very mischievous and wild."

Mr Singh said that the women gangs were frequently involved in fights, but they usually did not engage in robberies or housebreaking.

These gangs gave protection to girls working in night-clubs and bars. Their favourite haunts were places like Clifford Pier, Eu Tong Sen Road, Jalan Besar, Tanjong Katong, Geylang and the Capitol Theatre vicinity.

THEY hang out at HDB void decks and shopping centres, go drinking and clubbing,
and get into fights.

To fund these activities, they extort protection money from younger,
vulnerable kids or 'gin nah' (Hokkien for children) whom they recruit into
their ranks.

These street-corner gangs are apparently behind the rise in the number of
youths arrested for rioting, say social workers.

In the first nine months of this year, 382 youths were arrested, up from 368
last year.

The gangs are made up mostly of teenagers. Some members are as young as 12
years old. The gangs range in size from five to as many as 50 members.

According to conservative estimates, there are at least 10 gangs in
Singapore, with different associations and branches.

Their members hang out at billiard parlours, pubs that play techno music, playgrounds, video arcades and malls such as Cathay Cineleisure Orchard and Parkway Parade.

Some gangs even use the names of once-powerful secret societies of the 1960s, such as Sio Gi Ho and Sio Loh Kuan.

But they are unlikely to be affiliated to these groups.

Private investigator Lionel De Souza, who once worked in the Secret Societies Branch of the police force during the 1960s and 1970s, thinks these old gangs still exist but now lack bite.

'These gangs cannot be totally eradicated, but they have now been successfully suppressed by the police, in the sense that they are no longer well-organised entities,' said the 61-year-old.

Street gangs thrive because they provide companionship and acceptance to members, who might otherwise feel like rejects in society, says Ms Carol Balhetchet, director of youth development at the Children's Society.

'These teens have to be more realistic about their preconceived ideas of feeling safe and protected, because they are only wanted by the gang to the extent that they serve the hidden purpose, such as carrying out illegal activities,' she said. 'However, this relationship will not last forever.'

In general, more males than females tend to be involved in these gangs, although gender rarely makes a difference.

'No matter what gender they are, they can be brutal,' said Ms Joyce Chan, senior youth counsellor of Teen Challenge, a voluntary welfare organization that works with youth offenders.

'Usually, the mentality is that the guys tend to be more heavy-hand ed, but the girls can also show no mercy.' Ms Chan works mainly with juvenile delinquents, including those who are trying to break away from gangs.

The gangs have devious ways of recruiting members.

Some use the 'good guy, bad guy' technique, where they get a group of troublemakers to bully potential recruits.

Then, the gang leader steps in to act as a 'hero' to protect them.

Another variation is to harass the potential recruit and demand he fork out money to settle the purported grievance and become a protected member of the gang.

Some recruits pay entrance fees of around $20 in addition to weekly protection fees of about $10. Members who cannot pay up are forced to sell illegal VCDs and shoplift.

But the most prevalent activity of gang members is hanging out in their territories and getting into confrontations over petty issues that eventually escalate into brawls.

These face-offs range from the classic staring incidents to boy-girl relationship problems.

Because the gang mentality is based on strength in numbers, the whole gang will turn up to help a member confront a rival.

The greatest problem is that these youths become scapegoats most of the time.

'I call these street gangs the dispensable group, because whenever a fight breaks out or the police conduct raids, they are always the first to be rounded up, rather than the real masterminds,' said Ms Balhetchet.

This is what happened to Aki (not his real name). When he was 15 years old, a classmate introduced him to the Sa Lak Kau (369) gang.

Back then, he felt it was cool to be reputed to be a gangster.

He was eventually arrested for trying to steal a motorbike on Christmas Eve last year, and put on probation.

The experience woke him up.

'I went for a prison visit, and the police showed me the cramped cells and
how the prisoners were being treated,' said the 18-year-old.

'They also showed me a video clip of a prisoner being caned. That really shook
me.'

The eldest son of a housewife and a machinist, Aki has now sworn off gangsterism.

However, many youngsters like him find it hard to quit these street-corner gangs.

It could be because those who want to leave the gang have to accept a beating from fellow members before they can do so.

In the case of the Sa Lak Kau gang, members have to pay $369 to quit.

Less powerful and influential gangs let their members go without question after a period of absence.

Although members who wish to leave may be threatened with bodily harm or may fear that their family members will be harassed, it is possible to escape from the clutches of these gangs.

Mr De Souza said: 'Change your mobile number and avoid the places where the gangs always hang out. And if they come to your house, call the police.'

Meanwhile, those who have friends embroiled in gangs can also intervene to help.

'Please, you are doing your friends a favour by telling someone who can help them,' he said.

Danger signs
Tattoos, smoking, late nights out, poor grades - private eyes list the telltale signs that a teen may be up to no good

By Tracy Quek

IF YOUR child's grades start to slip and his sunny disposition disappears overnight, or if you spot a tattoo under his shirt, don't dismiss the changes as just another bout of adolescent blues.

There is a chance the teenager could be keeping company with unsavoury characters outside the home, and might have even joined a street gang.

Private investigators, who have been asked by worried parents to track and monitor their children's activities, say sudden changes in behaviour are the telltale signs. Six of the eight private investigation firms The Sunday Times spoke to said more parents are engaging them to find out what their kids get up to after school. Their top request: Find out if my child is a pai kia - the Hokkien term often used to describe a gangster.

Dong Security and Investigation got 15 calls within a fortnight of placing a newspaper advertisement saying it can find out if a child is involved in street gangs. The firm has taken on six cases so far. It has a team of five former police officers - each with more than 10 years' experience in the Criminal Investigation Department's secret societies branch - who can sniff out wayward youths.

Said its owner Anthony Tan, 37: 'The investigators know how to identify gang members, they know where they hang out and most importantly, how to deal with the kid who's gotten involved.'

Police say that although the street gang situation here is under control, youth crime is worrying. A gang member is a criminal under the Societies Act. Mixing or associating with gang members is also an offence and youths can be prosecuted in court.

Last year, 4,658 youths were arrested, 5 per cent more than the year before, for theft and rioting.

Telltale signs that a child is a gang member: The youngster takes extra clothes to school, turns in poor grades, smokes, spends late nights out, plays truant, bullies and sports a tattoo.

Most times, street gangs frequent coffee shops, Housing Board void decks, video arcade centres, billiard saloons and discotheques. Private investigator Lionel De Souza, manager of LJ Investigation and Consultancy Services, believes parents turn to PIs because they are busy at work. They seek help, he said, to 'change their 'uncontrollable' children'.

His investigators hit the streets to monitor the teens' whereabouts and daily routine, find out who their friends are, favourite hangouts and if the company they keep are connected to any secret society or gang. This can take a week to a month, said PIs who charge $2,000 to $4,000 a week.

Joining a gang can be fatal. Said a police spokesman: 'Being in a gang could lead to unnecessary and senseless violence like when a rival gang is attacked and itretaliates, with dire consequences.'

Coffee shops? What p*ssy ass ganbangers hang out in coffee shops? You silly chinese people...

Originally posted by Black Rob
No offense,but why don't you just say black instead of colored?
Because I figured people would get all pissy. I guessed wrong.

Originally posted by DanieLs_4_Ever
Because I figured people would get all pissy. I guessed wrong. I'm not mad just saying most people dont care. Was just wondering

Originally posted by DrDoom101
WindDancer, do you live in CA?

Southern California

Originally posted by KidRock
Cause New Jersey is the shithole of the United States.

Originally posted by Black Rob
Coffee shops? What p*ssy ass ganbangers hang out in coffee shops? You silly chinese people...

The Latino and italian ones

Well, I think the world would be a better place if gangs talked their difference out over a nice cup of tea or latte instead of beatings and drive buys or what have you. Maybe some scones, a jazz soundtrack playing. Yeah, coffee shops. Not starbucks though, foul ditchwater.

Originally posted by Inspectah Deck
don't laugh at that! I'm tired of folks dissing New Jerz. F*ck all you guys!

So why is New Jersey dissed so? Not being of American stock (no disrespect but thank God) I must admit I have no idea about the US state competition. What does New Jersey have going for it or against it (are their Jersey cows there? I think they are a type of dairy cow)

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
So why is New Jersey dissed so? Not being of American stock (no disrespect but thank God) I must admit I have no idea about the US state competition. What does New Jersey have going for it or against it (are their Jersey cows there? I think they are a type of dairy cow) New Jersey has one of the best test scores in America so rednecks like KidRock hate us cuz we're freaking geniuses.Honestly though,i think it's because of the negative association with New York which gives people the impression we are a "wannabe state".That and we lack any real points of interest or famous places.Also back in the day there use to be a lot of mafioso in New Jersey so we also get associated with all that wiseguy crap. And no there is no Jersey cows,just Jersey monkeys

red_bandana

our city is protected by the ghost of charles bronson

Originally posted by Black Rob
Coffee shops? What p*ssy ass ganbangers hang out in coffee shops? You silly chinese people...

Den i think u are the silly blackie

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/5370/12736322937070l1zr.jpg

Before 1918

History of the triads and secret societies in Singapore

The underworld of the secret societies began early in the beginning of the history of Singapore even before its discovery by Sir Stamford Raffles in 1819. Early before this so called discovery by Raffles, Singapore was an island city doing most of the time the barter trade business. It was the business of the exchange of goods. Even as some of it is still plying in its style among the Indonesian island and the Philippines. In Singapore today with all its modern facilities, skyscrapers and Mass Rapid Transportation the Industrial age begin introduced by Singapore into the lesser dynamic countries like China and Asean. The introduction of the Economic Industrialisation like ShenZhen, GuangZhou and the northwestern remote cities of China. Slowly likewise in the same way in India. It happens but then amongst the less elite, amongst the poor, the barter trade is the only one source of business being done even today.

In the early days all sorts of goods were transported by ships all over the world to Singapore. The ships carried goods and people who had dreams of making their stay permanent by setting up families, homes and business. But it was for this reason the migration of Chinese settlers into Singapore saw the influx of labourers called "Coolies" who ate and sleep at the warehouses where they worked. It was here at the "Coolie Kengs" that the triad societies infiltrated. Here triads who usually only admitted their own members into the workforce found it was better to recruit also outsiders as they outnumbered the triads. In this ways splinter groups also become the recruiters of the outsiders. This way it gave birth to the Secret Societies of today.

The original "Gi Hin" was the largest society who could not take care of all its members. So they went away to the new secret societies. The 108 and 24 were formed after the 36, 18 and 13 groups. They become the biggest two groups which dominated Singapore. They also spread out into splinter groups that followed causing all the hurt and deaths.

The differences between the triads and the secret societies was a vast one because the triads from China was only interested in finer principles of life. In China they were successful in politics and had completed their supported for President Sun Chong San who they installed as the first President of Chinese China. They had put away the Manchu Government who had earlier ruled over them. Now they had nothing to do. Some formed the secret societies and involved themselves in the lucrative prostitution, drugs and gambling vices. Greed from monetary gains made enemies. So the gang wars started.

These phantoms helped make our streets safe
Little is known about it even now, more than four decades after it was disanded. But in the late 1950s it played a major role in making Singapore safe from secret societies. Its untold story is as full of cloak as dagger, of officers looking and acting like the men they were after, and getting mixed up in the rough stuff. Now, for the first time, The New Paper speaks to retired members of a police unit that was so secretive it was known only as... the Phantom Squad.
By Arul John [email protected] OUTNUMBERED, surrounded, attacked. The undercover police officer, who was wounded and bleeding, fell to the ground.
03 January 2004
By Arul John

OUTNUMBERED, surrounded, attacked. The undercover police officer, who was wounded and bleeding, fell to the ground.

He looked up, and saw his attacker aiming a spear at him. As it came down, the officer managed to deflect it from his vital organs.

His hand was a bloody mess, but he still managed to fire his revolver. And his last bullet claimed the life of his assailant.

Sounds like fiction - but Mr Patrick Tan will tell you that it's all fact.

He should know. He was the officer involved.

Mr Tan, 65, a retired police inspector, was a member of the Phantom Squad, a shadowy unit that targeted secret societies.

He described how, as a constable, he and four colleagues went to flush out a gang in the Beach Road area, and found instead that about 40 gangsters were closing in on them.

The cops split into two groups and retreated. One officer radioed for help.

Suddenly, Mr Tan was surrounded and hit on the head with a bicycle chain.

Bleeding profusely from his forehead, he ran for cover but fell to the ground. His attacker caught up and tried to spear him.

Mr Tan managed to grab the spear and it pierced only his left thigh.

His left hand was also wounded, with skin and flesh hanging loose from his middle finger. But he got out his revolver and fired, hitting the gangster in the chest.

Another officer, who saw what was happening as he drove past, got out of his car and chased the attackers.

Mr Tan made it to the car on his own, and then fainted.

He said: 'If not for that officer, I would have died. I was told the bullet lodged near my attacker's heart and he died in hospital three days later.'

BADLY INJURED

Mr Tan himself was in hospital. His head wound needed 14 stitches, while his finger needed 13. After he was discharged, he was given a month's medical leave.

He returned to the squad and the struggle with the gangsters went on. In the 1950s and 1960s, secret societies (SS) played havoc here.

Private investigator Lionel de Souza, a retired police officer, said it was difficult to curb their influence as many people saw the gangsters as Robin Hood figures.

He said: 'They informed SS members when police looked for them and let them hide in their kampungs and squatter areas.'

The Phantom Squad was formed in late 1958 or early 1959 with one officer and 12 men from the Police Reserve Unit (PRU) to get intelligence about planned gang attacks.

Its members often worked at night and 'moved like ghosts or phantoms'.

Mr de Souza said officers in the squad had to look and act like gangsters in order to catch gangsters.

CONSTANT DANGER

And the work involved constant danger.

Mr Tan said: 'In the 1950s and 1960s, the funeral procession of an SS member passing through a rival's territory could spark a fight.

'As the police did not know where many SS hideouts and hangouts were, the squad was formed to find these places, flush the SS out and eliminate them.'

Phantom Squad men were selected from young police officers who showed courage and were active in sports. They were sent to the PRU for intensive training in camouflage, surveillance, cultivating informers and criminal investigation.

Mr Tan and his squad also learnt the ins and outs of SS life from experts and the Criminal Investigation Department.

COLOUR CODES

He explained: 'As the 08 gang wore colourful clothes and the 24 gang wore black and white, we would wear colourful clothes when in a 24 hangout, to flush them out.'

Mr de Souza said the squad reported directly to the assistant commissioner of police and its members knew their assignments only on the day itself. Parangs and guns were often used against them, and one raid even turned up Sten guns.

The Phantom Squad also had to watch out for acid attacks and ambushes.

Once, after the gangbusters drove past a wooded area in Bedok, they were informed that a group of men with shotguns had just set up an ambush there. The cops had missed death by a few minutes.

Security firm chief Ronnie Lew, who is in his 60s, also used to be a member of the squad. He recalled how his group was once challenged by nearly 100 SS members at a Henderson Road glass factory but were left unharmed as the gangsters thought them too skinny to fight.

Mr de Souza said the squad was disbanded in 1960 after laws were passed allowing SS members to be detained for long periods without trial, choking their activities.

Added Mr Tan: 'I want to tell my story now, because many young Singaporeans do not know how bad things were before and I am glad the squad played a part in making the country safe for them.'


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Secret societies outlawed

MR Tan retired from the police force in 1983 and is now chief executive of a firm that is involved in private investigation, surveillance and other security matters.

In June 1959, strict laws were passed that made it an offence to harbour SS members.

In December that year, a two-week amnesty period was announced to allow people who claimed to have been forced to join secret societies to give themselves up.

One year after the laws were passed, the number of secret societies dropped from 334 to 168.

The number of SS incidents also dropped by 40 per cent in 1960 compared with 1959.

Originally posted by Thoma5
Den i think u are the silly blackie Touche

Originally posted by Black Rob
New Jersey has one of the best test scores in America so rednecks like KidRock hate us cuz we're freaking geniuses.Honestly though,i think it's because of the negative association with New York which gives people the impression we are a "wannabe state".That and we lack any real points of interest or famous places.Also back in the day there use to be a lot of mafioso in New Jersey so we also get associated with all that wiseguy crap. And no there is no Jersey cows,just Jersey monkeys

Well NYC is better than NJ

Originally posted by Inspectah Deck
Well NYC is better than NJ F*ck NYC!

Originally posted by Black Rob
F*ck NYC!

NYC rulez

YES

in no way have i ever thought my city would be taken over by gangs. their are gangs, but definantly not the kind that would take over the city. our police will bust some caps to keep good ol' Ft. Collins a safe place

Originally posted by fruits
in no way have i ever thought my city would be taken over by gangs. their are gangs, but definantly not the kind that would take over the city. our police will bust some caps to keep good ol' Ft. Collins a safe place

Where is Ft. Collins?

Colorado. its not a big city, but not a small city.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
NYC rulez NJ rulez harder

I live in a suburban town in NJ, so definately not. Although, I'm just 20 mins. away from towns like Newark and East Orange, which are infested with the Crips and the Bloods. I really think the government needs to crack down harder on gang activity. Look how out of control the Mafia got years ago. We need to stop gangs from gaining power. In my opinion, being a member of ANY gang, whether it be Crips, Bloods, Mafia, Westies, Yakuza, etc. should warrant life in jail. It should be considered one of the most heinous crimes, up there with cannibals, terrorists, and neo-nazis.

Originally posted by Black Rob
NJ rulez harder

No it doesn't. NYC got NJ has times 100!

Originally posted by TrueEmperorNero
I live in a suburban town in NJ, so definately not. Although, I'm just 20 mins. away from towns like Newark and East Orange, which are infested with the Crips and the Bloods. I really think the government needs to crack down harder on gang activity. Look how out of control the Mafia got years ago. We need to stop gangs from gaining power. In my opinion, being a member of ANY gang, whether it be Crips, Bloods, Mafia, Westies, Yakuza, etc. should warrant life in jail. It should be considered one of the most heinous crimes, up there with cannibals, terrorists, and neo-nazis.

So, little children should get life in prison?

Originally posted by TrueEmperorNero
I live in a suburban town in NJ, so definately not. Although, I'm just 20 mins. away from towns like Newark and East Orange, which are infested with the Crips and the Bloods. I really think the government needs to crack down harder on gang activity. Look how out of control the Mafia got years ago. We need to stop gangs from gaining power. In my opinion, being a member of ANY gang, whether it be Crips, Bloods, Mafia, Westies, Yakuza, etc. should warrant life in jail. It should be considered one of the most heinous crimes, up there with cannibals, terrorists, and neo-nazis.

And don't forget tele-marketers, the modern bane of the civilised world. And people who send chain letters/email. And maybe the executives of Starbucks. And any body who buys a Britney Spears CD as well. Oh, as well as any body who appears on, or watches, Big Brother.

I'll agree, gangs are a serious problem, but I am not sure I would put them up there with cannibals, terrorists and neo-Nazis. Of course I don't live in a nation plagued with gangs, though surely prevention is better then cure - giving them all life sentences I suspect would strain an already strained legal system, far better to go to the breeding grounds and nip the problem in the bud with preventative, rather then reactive measures.

And sure, the police though should have a zero tolerance policy on gangs causing disruption - the moment they cause even a little trouble, or there's the slightest wiff of some gang related disturbance then the full force of the law should be brought down on them. Crush the mischef makers before they can do any real harm, then work hard to make sure people see that there are better ways to go through life then being part of a gang.

Originally posted by WindDancer
Well? Do you feel the police in your area is doing their job? Or do we need to concentrate on getting these gang members programs that will help them improve socially and economically?

Not too long ago, I was surprise to hear that there are gangs in cities like London and Paris. How did this happen? I can understand the issue being a problem in 3rd world countries...but in advance (using the term losely) Nations?

What should be done to prevent Gang increase and violence?

95% of the police I have had the pleasure to meet are thugs themselves.
I 'm not concerned about gangs taking over anything. The ones who go around looking for trouble are always ****ing cowards who try to sneak up behind you, are with at least one other person or are carrying a gun or some other weapon. There are a few who are actually smart but it doesn't matter how smart you are when you attack someone who knows how to defend themself with a knife. I don't look forward to getting mugged but if it ever happens to me I am ready and I wont be afraid to take a bullet even though I wouldn't like it.

"And don't forget tele-marketers, the modern bane of the civilised world. And people who send chain letters/email. And maybe the executives of Starbucks. And any body who buys a Britney Spears CD as well. Oh, as well as any body who appears on, or watches, Big Brother.

I'll agree, gangs are a serious problem, but I am not sure I would put them up there with cannibals, terrorists and neo-Nazis. Of course I don't live in a nation plagued with gangs, though surely prevention is better then cure - giving them all life sentences I suspect would strain an already strained legal system, far better to go to the breeding grounds and nip the problem in the bud with preventative, rather then reactive measures.

And sure, the police though should have a zero tolerance policy on gangs causing disruption - the moment they cause even a little trouble, or there's the slightest wiff of some gang related disturbance then the full force of the law should be brought down on them. Crush the mischef makers before they can do any real harm, then work hard to make sure people see that there are better ways to go through life then being part of a gang."

Gangs are one of the biggest problems the US has(crime wise). I would put them up with other violent criminals. It may seem like they aren't a huge deal, but look at how the Mafia used to practically rule Chicago. Small time gangs aren't that bad, but if you let them grow, they turn into something huge, which is near-impossible to bring down. That's why they need to get life in jail. If you take down some gangmembers, it will send out a message to the others. The Italian Mafia isn't a huge problem anymore, but so many other ones are forming. There's the Red Mafia, then the Triads which practically ruled Chinatown in the late 80's and early 90's. Let's not forget the Crips and the Bloods which are a HUGE problem. Also, you have the Colombian cartels. These gangs may seem like nothing and Mafia activity has been romanticized in movies so people don't take it as seriously as they should. Overall, gangs produce the following problems: Theft, murder, rape, cocaine/heroin trafficking, prostitution, and more. They need to be taken down.

Interesting how this will go...

Taking gangs to court

I think the person who created this thread watched The Warriors one too many times.

If gangs took over houston, I'd invest in a few things.

1: Class A body armor

2: winchester defender

3: AR 15 assault rifle

4: all the grenades I could carry

5: Toilet paper.

your like a coward little DUDE....face it...

little dude? whatever. I know gang members, and THEY are the cowards. why do you think they are in gangs, sockboy?

to hunt you....kidding....

no, its because they are afraid to fight their own fights.

for you,,whats the main purpose of gangs in a society to "threat" someone....or to harm somebody....

no worries here, crips and bloods are at peace and if one of them shoots at another their higher ups will most likely fight them or kill them ermm

Originally posted by TrueEmperorNero
I'll agree, gangs are a serious problem, but I am not sure I would put them up there with cannibals, terrorists and neo-Nazis. Of course I don't live in a nation plagued with gangs, though surely prevention is better then cure - giving them all life sentences I suspect would strain an already strained legal system, far better to go to the breeding grounds and nip the problem in the bud with preventative, rather then reactive measures.


But the country you're in has a big problem with cannibals?

gangs are evrywhere. long story short my neighbors across the hell are latin kings and 2 blocks down the street we have gd's ( gangster dispiles)

Originally posted by PiruBlood
gangs are evrywhere. long story short my neighbors across the hell are latin kings and 2 blocks down the street we have gd's ( gangster dispiles)

Disciple? You're illiterate enough to belong to a gang.

Originally posted by Yo Mom loves it
Disciple? You're illiterate enough to belong to a gang.





im not in a gang never was never will be.



but back on topic



kids 12 -16 usualy get into gangs because the leaders target them. the money the cars and the women is what appels to that person. you never see a guy at 25 get jumped in a gang is because you have so much to learn when a kid at 12 or 13 gets jumped in your basicly there *****. i know about it cause i live in a neghborhood where it happens all the time. that dosent make me a gang member i know this shit by seeing it repeat itself.

Originally posted by PiruBlood


kids 12 -16 usualy get into gangs because the leaders target them. the money the cars and the women is what appels to that person. you never see a guy at 25 get jumped in a gang is because you have so much to learn when a kid at 12 or 13 gets jumped in your basicly there *****. i know about it cause i live in a neghborhood where it happens all the time. that dosent make me a gang member i know this shit by seeing it repeat itself.

That's not the word on the street about you!

I don't worry about gangs around here. I live back in the woods. If they came here to start that shit...they'd have to deal with a bunch of rednecks with shotguns...and I don't think any gang member will want any of that...lol

just another gang, only inbred.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
just another gang, only inbred.

nope...we're just decent hard workin' people tryin' to make a livin'...somethin' city folk don't know anything about


durlaugh

Originally posted by charlemagne9746
nope...we're just decent hard workin' people tryin' to make a livin'...somethin' city folk don't know anything about


durlaugh sure, because we have all our bills paid for us in the city. riiiiiiiight. wanker

take over cities???

i live in a country ruled by gangs.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Well? Do you feel the police in your area is doing their job? Or do we need to concentrate on getting these gang members programs that will help them improve socially and economically?

Not too long ago, I was surprise to hear that there are gangs in cities like London and Paris. How did this happen? I can understand the issue being a problem in 3rd world countries...but in advance (using the term losely) Nations?

What should be done to prevent Gang increase and violence?

In many ways, gangs do control my area in London, which is Camden (shithole capital of the world), so I'm unlucky, and I'm sometimes scared to walk around on my own.

Aye, but London's hardly going to the dogs because of a gang straight outta The Warriors now, is it?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
take over cities???

i live in a country ruled by gangs.

Brazil?

Originally posted by Grimm22
Brazil?

lol. close. only worse. pakistan.

on the surface it might not look it. but every public system from the bottom to the top is corrupt. and over 98% of all government serveants are corrupt.

gangs and mafias always have the top political government, judicial, defence and provincial chairs. not to mention private corpretes. people/media/average folks get beat up and killed/threatened all the times and even the best of private highschools and colleges are a nightmare of sorts to go to.

maybe im being too soft, its more like TERRORIST ORGANISTAIONS rule the country. after all, the MQM, which rules politically/through gangs. one of the four major provinces/sindh. has has always had hundreds of proper hidden torture cells. they commit precise assasinations of even high ups and political opposition. have over a hundred thousand members. systematically collect illegal gangster taxes in their entire area of influence. recently killed over 700 people in the largest city karachi, openly, and attacked a well known news cable news channel office whose portrayel of them didnt go in well with them. and well control the police so that even hundreds of hours of footage clearly identifying faces of the shooters didnt pose an investigation.

oh right, forgot, the president himself{who is aligned with them} officially gave the statement that there would be NO official investigation of the events of the day, lol. plus the chairman of police in their area f influence is also officially an MQM member, who he and the others claim is a political party made for public welfare.

also i dont think most gangster organisations have anti tank wepons, private armies, an air force and god knows what else. not to mention, the leader of the MQM, lives in britian form where he gives live air orders to his party on public tv channels and brittian is happy to have him and never takes any action.

tons of such examples. in another province, a tribe leader is the chairman, polotically. he rules with genocide and stops and development of roads, facilities/educaytion. so that his people remain controllable and in his power, and worship him as a living god{which they do and they also have a temple of him}. not to mention he routinely attacks gas pipelines which supply the whole nations{which leads to routine gas cuts in a country where much depends on natural gas} with rocket launchers, demanding royalties from the currently opposing government for the gas being taken form his area.

lol, both him and the MQM leader are HARVARD GRADUATES!