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His fight is in a rectangle box 15 feet high and 30 feet wide and 60 feet long Superman is grounded can he still when. The Box is made of 10 foot thick Adamantium so nobodies leave till there only one standing.

Hulk

Superman 10/10

Heat-vision lobotomies for Thor and Hulk, comiiiinnnnng uuuuuuupppp!

If Hulk is mindless why should having a lobotomy would be an issue?

Originally posted by Bentley
If Hulk is mindless why should having a lobotomy would be an issue? there's a difference between mindless and brainless. without a brain, hulk becomes a vegetable.

It was a JOKE!!

ain't gonna work, Hulk's healing and regeneration are greater than that.
that is if the HV could penetrate in the first place, which I doubt it could.

still, Mindless Hulk is at a disadvantage as he can't strategise nor really concentrate on what's going on.

nevertheless, with the stipulations set by the OP, Hulk wins.

Supes easily wins this. Why is Thor w/o hammer here?
Supes simply koes Hulk with his speed and initial superior power.

even PC superman couldn't KO Hulk, and that was a Hulk who had yet to really learn to access his power. don't think Superman's KOing him at all.

Originally posted by janus77
even PC superman couldn't KO Hulk, and that was a Hulk who had yet to really learn to access his power. don't think Superman's KOing him at all.

Non canon. It's definitely possible for Hulk to be koed and Superman is definitely strong enough and fast enough to do it.

non-cannon perhaps but, Superman's not gonna pack that much more of a punch than Thor does. and definitely not in the league of Zom/Strange.

sure Hulk can be knocked out, but I think it requires more than he's faced off against.

Originally posted by janus77
non-cannon perhaps but, Superman's not gonna pack that much more of a punch than Thor does. and definitely not in the league of Zom/Strange.

sure Hulk can be knocked out, but I think it requires more than he's faced off against.

First of all Superman can hit harder than Thor and faster and more times. Even if Thor hits harder I would rather have 1 Thor hit vs. 1000 Superman hits of almost equal strength. The Zom thing was WWH and not Mindless. But what does magical blasts have to do with physical hits.
Even though Superman easily hits much harder.

WWH wouldn't be that much more powerful than a mindless Hulk as they both have the same potential. the key difference might be that WWH actually knows how to fight and is aware of his situation.

and Zom/Strange wasn't just magical blasts it was physical pummelling too. Zom is just about the most uber magical entity in all of Marvel, as far as I'm aware, so that was serious power being thrown at Hulk.
every other punch went right through Hulk's chest and out the other side, ripping his torso apart but, Hulk healed right up - no damage - within 2 panels, each time. that is a level of physical attack that is way beyond Superman, and yet it didn't KO Hulk.

Superman.

Originally posted by janus77
WWH wouldn't be that much more powerful than a mindless Hulk as they both have the same potential. the key difference might be that WWH actually knows how to fight and is aware of his situation.

and Zom/Strange wasn't just magical blasts it was physical pummelling too. Zom is just about the most uber magical entity in all of Marvel, as far as I'm aware, so that was serious power being thrown at Hulk.
every other punch went right through Hulk's chest and out the other side, ripping his torso apart but, Hulk healed right up - no damage - within 2 panels, each time. that is a level of physical attack that is way beyond Superman, and yet it didn't KO Hulk.

Potential is meaningless is it remains untapped. Kurse could ko Hulk before he can tap into his potential. Ripping Hulk's head off wins instantly. Putting a hole in Hulk's brains wins instantly. The head is the key to everything. Remember that.

Originally posted by h1a8
The head is the key to everything. Remember that.
I know, shame you don't seem to be using yours .

Hulk's basically too strong and too durable for anyone here to KO in a few shots. and given that he doesn't take more than a few seconds to grow exponentially stronger (and more durable) it doesn't look good for the other two.

Hulk

In that close range, Mindless Hulk solo's.

Mindless Hulk 8/10

Originally posted by janus77
I know, shame you don't seem to be using yours .

Hulk's basically too strong and too durable for anyone here to KO in a few shots. and given that he doesn't take more than a few seconds to grow exponentially stronger (and more durable) it doesn't look good for the other two.

How do you know that base Hulk (100tons) can withstand a couple of blows from someone who is 8x stronger than someone who can crack a celestial's dome?

You are basically arguing that no one can actually ko Hulk even though it
has happened countless times. Is this true? Please answer!

Originally posted by h1a8
How do you know that base Hulk (100tons) can withstand a couple of blows from someone who is 8x stronger than someone who can crack a celestial's dome?

You are basically arguing that no one can actually ko Hulk even though it
has happened countless times. Is this true? Please answer!
1. in most instances Hulk's "base strength" means squat because it instantly increases +exponentially+ when in battle.

2. Hulk has taken everything Thor could dish out, many times. the only thing left is the GodBlast, which isn't available here.

3. Onslaught at his strongest was said to rival The Celestials, had physically pummeled all the heroes on Marvel Earth, including humiliating Juggernaut a few times (this was a weaker Onslaught mind you). yet at his most powerful, Onslaught still could not KO mindless Hulk, none of the other characters here is even a mote in comparison to Onslaught's force. and Hulk went toe-to-toe with him.

4. Hulk has survived blackholes that were so strong even The Surfer was KOed by them. again, Surfer > Thor/Superman, Surfer even fights other Heralds inside regular blackholes, so that is an impressive feat.

5. Hulk's durability, healing, regeneration, speed ALL grow alongside his strength, as shown on-panel. neither of these guys has anything that can put him down fast enough to prevent the inevitable. Hulk wins.


addendum
6. Zom/Strange, Dr. Strange empowered with a fraction of Zom (who himself is a challenge that the LT had to deal with) went down to 3 Hulk punches. Zom/Strange ripped through Hulk's body, clearly destroying the upper torso (thus disconnecting the brain from the rest of the body. the impact was NOTHING to Hulk, he grew it back in a panel and without slowing down or weakening. this happened twice during the battle. Zom/Strange is hideously more powerful than both these guys put together.

7. Sentry charged into Hulk with +everything+ he had and couldn't KO Hulk, it's just not possible for these guys either.

I think hulk takes it in the end because he won't get tired but instead angrier and stronger. I will give it to superman that he will dodge much of hulks attacks even in this confined space. I guess superman will eventually get tired because he dependent on a outside source of energy and Hulk's energy comes from within. Sorry Thor isn't gonna be a factor here without his hammer. SO yeah Hulk ftw.

Originally posted by h1a8
How do you know that base Hulk (100tons) can withstand a couple of blows from someone who is 8x stronger than someone who can crack a celestial's dome?

You are basically arguing that no one can actually ko Hulk even though it
has happened countless times. Is this true? Please answer!

First of all thor did not crack that celestials dome with pure strength so that comparison is indeed ridiculous.. Now this is mindless hulk. If he is a t the same lvl at which he fought onslaught then the other two are done for. A weaker version of onslaught was able to physically stop the juggernaut and send him flying miles away. Thor also did this wit d godblast but evn he did not snd him miles away. When the hulk fought onslaught he was more powerful and he still was unable to win a physical fight against the hulk. The hulk actually cracked his armour at a point where a good number of earths superheroes had failed to do so ( including thor).

The mindless hulk dat fought was able to withstand punches from onslaught without much trouble( punches dat sent jugs across d continent). A few punches from supes wont ko him but a few punches like d ones he gave onslaught have a good chance of killing either superman or thor

Mindless Hulk, Thor gets stomped.

Superman still wins.

You can't hit what you can't see!

Thor needs his hammer to compete here - without it he has no hope.

Superman Vs Hulk has been debated often - the question is will Hulk's strength/durability/stamina increase quickly enough to challenge somone like Superman whose base level strength is FAR beyond Hulks (this also does not take into account his other abilities - heat vision, freeze breath etc).

Hulk instantly becomes as strong as he needs to be, it's not a case of slowly working himself up.

a 100Billion ton+ mountain-range dwarfing the Andes was dropped on him, in his Professor Hulk (weak) incarnation and he managed to brace it. and his durability, healing, regeneration, speed all increase in relation to his strength.

Originally posted by janus77
Hulk instantly becomes as strong as he needs to be, it's not a case of slowly working himself up.

a 100Billion ton+ mountain-range dwarfing the Andes was dropped on him, in his Professor Hulk (weak) incarnation and he managed to brace it. and his durability, healing, regeneration, speed all increase in relation to his strength.

That's all well and good and everything.....

But that has nothing to do with how he's going to hit Superman. Which he won't.
If the OP wanted Hulk to win this fight, instead of taking away Superman's flight, he should of taken away his speed.

Even in an enclosed space this size, unless Hulk and Superman are in a box just big enough for them both to stand inside, Hulk won't even see Superman.
Superman only needs a small space for maneuverability, and he's got plenty of that in this location.

Superman wins. Too fast.

Well he starts off as mindless hulk thats pretty up there right? I means his Mindless hulk "base" power should be enough that superman won't have any real advantage. I doubt the heat will do much do to the regen factor and I don't think ice is gonna hold the Hulk.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
Well he starts off as mindless hulk thats pretty up there right? I means his Mindless hulk "base" power should be enough that superman won't have any real advantage. I doubt the heat will do much do to the regen factor and I don't think ice is gonna hold the Hulk.

Maybe, maybe not. But HV and AB aren't needed in this fight.

Strength: Superman >/= Hulk (debatable)

Speed: Superman >>>>>> Hulk

By logical reasoning, Hulk won't even see Superman.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
Well he starts off as mindless hulk thats pretty up there right? I means his Mindless hulk "base" power should be enough that superman won't have any real advantage. I doubt the heat will do much do to the regen factor and I don't think ice is gonna hold the Hulk.

Mindless Hulk does not start anywhere near Superman at his base. Im not questioning Hulk's ability to EVENTUALLY reach Supermans level - will he do it in enough time to counteract the level of strength and speed Superman has before Superman takes him out? Also mindless Hulk has very limited intelligence - now I believe this could be both an advantage and a disadvantage as:

1. Disadvantage is he will be little more than an animal in his fighting technique and skill - and may not display the usual cunningness the Hulk shows.

2. Advantage may well be he is able to attain enraged emotions faster than a (mentally) held back Hulk.

I dont doubt Hulk's ability to win this - but he is not the clear winner.

Originally posted by janus77
1. in most instances Hulk's "base strength" means squat because it instantly increases +exponentially+ when in battle. It won't increase exponentially if he's koed. Plus exponentially is a slow growth from 100tons. For example, doubling his strength is exponential and is only 200tons.

Thor holds back in the beginning (doesn't want to kill Hulk). So Hulk has the chance of getting stronger. Also Thor has koed Hulk before you know.
Hulk's strength level was high here. My argument is that it won't get a chance to get high period, as he will be
Koed shortly.
I like to see Hulk surviving a blackhole. Please show me. We are talking about durability. So how is Surfer>Thor/Superman?
In that case no one can put Hulk down.
Even though he has been put down far too many times by lesser forces.

WW Hulk is not mindless Hulk, as his base strength was off the charts. Also the Zom/Strange incident was PIS and thus it is invalid even if we are talking about WW
Hulk here.

Sentry is weak. He had problems with a helicarrier. Iron Man busted his nose. A playful calm Hulk hurt him with a hug, etc. Plus again that was WW Hulk at his highest. He already fought others before he faced Sentry to become more angry and stronger. Thus he was stronger facing Sentry than he was facing Blackbolt, Ironman, etc.

h1a8 do you always display such a lack of comprehension and a penchant for adolescent twisting of people's responses?

.

Originally posted by janus77
h1a8 do you always display such a lack of comprehension and a penchant for adolescent twisting of people's responses?

.

Odinforce Thor (current) shits stomps both. =)

Originally posted by Grammaton
Mindless Hulk does not start anywhere near Superman at his base. Im not questioning Hulk's ability to EVENTUALLY reach Supermans level - will he do it in enough time to counteract the level of strength and speed Superman has before Superman takes him out? Also mindless Hulk has very limited intelligence - now I believe this could be both an advantage and a disadvantage as:

1. Disadvantage is he will be little more than an animal in his fighting technique and skill - and may not display the usual cunningness the Hulk shows.

2. Advantage may well be he is able to attain enraged emotions faster than a (mentally) held back Hulk.

I dont doubt Hulk's ability to win this - but he is not the clear winner.

Mindless hulk is a hulk that starts off completely and insanely angry, hence there is no question dat he so called base strength is at least on par with superman. Heck if he starts out at the lvl dat he did against onslaught then his base strength is above superman and will become faaar above supermans in a few seconds. The whole thing of the hulk EVENTUALLY reaching supermans lvl is just stupid. The mindless hulk was able to IMMEDIATELY go toe to toe wit onslaught
( who had enough strength to stop the juggernaut and send im across a continent, and all that when he was less powerful dan he was against hulk ) and very shortly after accomplish what the combined force of earths heroes could not do at that point which break a full powered onslaughts armour. onslaughts armour .

However i do agree dat him being mindless can be a disadvantage because of the lack of intelligence but the advantage of unbelievable strength outweighs the disadvantage .

Superman has some pretty good chances, even with the constraints, but he'd eventually lose.

The finals probably look something like;

Hulk 6/10
Superman 4/10
Thor - XXXXXXXX

Originally posted by h1a8


.
Hulk's strength level was high here. My argument is that it won't get a chance to get high period, as he will be
Koed shortly.

I like to see Hulk surviving a blackhole. Please show me. We are talking about durability. So how is Surfer>Thor/Superman?

In that case no one can put Hulk down.
Even though he has been put down far too many times by lesser forces.

WW Hulk is not mindless Hulk, as his base strength was off the charts. Also the Zom/Strange incident was PIS and thus it is invalid even if we are talking about WW
Hulk here.

Sentry is weak. He had problems with a helicarrier. Iron Man busted his nose. A playful calm Hulk hurt him with a hug, etc. Plus again that was WW Hulk at his highest. He already fought others before he faced Sentry to become more angry and stronger. Thus he was stronger facing Sentry than he was facing Blackbolt, Ironman, etc.

To start with id like to ask you how long it took the mindless hulk that fought inslaught to get to dat strength lvl? It did not take time at all as he was dat strong immediately. He did not amp for long periods before he went to fight onslaught, IMMEDIATELY he went mindless he was on dat lvl therefore ur argument of it taking d hulk time to get to dat lvl is ridiculous.

For your next coment about hulk survivivng a black hole, it did happen in planet hulk and he and the surfer both went through the same black hole but he came out in better shape( not to say i think he has better durability dan ss but dat incident shows that it is around dat lvl) ). And yeah the surfer is certainly more durable dan thor/superman. Taking a beating from tenebrous and aegis two galctus lvl beings (who tried to kill im) by the big gs own admission and not only surviving but still having enough strength to summon and channel the crunch enrgies, a feat that galactus himself said would be tough on its own evn 4 im. .

And yeah the hulks strength, duranility, h factor and evrything else increase proportionally with his anger. Hence the reason dat more powerful versions of hulk are more durable and heal faster e.g WWH heals faster and is more durable than normal savage and savage and the same goes for savage in relation to prof or grey hulk. To further show it a calm hulk had his bones broken by the void while WWH exhausted the sentrys entire enrgy reserve s and still did not go down

Well WWH and may not be mindless hulk but the mindless hulks base strength is also insanely high.

Lastly for the sentrey incident, sentry is not weak the hellicarrier thing has been discussed numerous times and it has been reasoned dat because of d sentrys lack of the ability to affect all points of an object by touching only one part( possesed by supes and hulk) he could only slow the hellicarrier and not stop it without risking its destruction. Being able to stalemate genis vell, and punk terrax hardly qualifies u as weak.

wow janus sucks

Originally posted by ultimatethor
To start with id like to ask you how long it took the mindless hulk that fought inslaught to get to dat strength lvl? It did not take time at all as he was dat strong immediately. He did not amp for long periods before he went to fight onslaught, IMMEDIATELY he went mindless he was on dat lvl therefore ur argument of it taking d hulk time to get to dat lvl is ridiculous. He was already ridiculously strong at the beginning. So his base was much higher than a normal mindless Hulk. Also, Onslaught allowed him to get even madder. The problem here is that Superman won't allow such a thing as he will hit
Hulk a million times in 1 second (It would probably take only 10 hits to ko Hulk though).

I want to see this black hole thing. How did he escape it? Surfer is not more durable than Superman or Thor, I disagree. Surfer has been hurt and koed far too many times for me to agree to that.
Most would agree that it grows exponentially. As proportionally is far too slow (linear in fact). But I can agree it grows proportionally since it says so in his official bios.
No it isn't. Its just 100 tons. The reason it was so high in the Onslaught saga was because he
was made to be very angry in the beginning process and the fact that his anger grew some more as Hulk was being overpowered at first. Onslaught allowed Hulk to get stronger for some odd reason.
Comics aren't that scientific. Characters can lift things all the time without them crumbling under their own weight.
The writer's intention was to show how heavy the helicarrier to Sentry.

I disagree that he stalemated genis vell. Why do many take that fight as such? And weak is a relative term.

I believe Superman takes this all the time as his speed is much greater
than both. He simply hits Hulk 1 million times in less than a sec for the ko (10 hits is probably all it takes though) and then Thor gets his turn next. Or Supes gets Thor first (since Hulk is slower and can't do anything
the first second) and then Hulk gets his turn next.

Originally posted by h1a8
I believe Superman takes this all the time as his speed is much greater
than both. He simply hits Hulk 1 million times in less than a sec for the ko (10 hits is probably all it takes though) and then Thor gets his turn next. Or Supes gets Thor first (since Hulk is slower and can't do anything
the first second) and then Hulk gets his turn next.

Sorry bub comics don't work like that, nor does real life for that matter. Your combo argument has already been debunked by several posters in the past yet you continue on with it for some odd reason.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Sorry bub comics don't work like that, nor does real life for that matter. Your combo argument has already been debunked by several posters in the past yet you continue on with it for some odd reason.

My combo argument has never been debunked for it's the truth (comic and real life).

I can't see Thor gaining many (if any) victories here - without his hammer he isn't a match for the other 2.

The way I see it -

Superman 5/10
Hulk 4/10
Thor 1/10

Originally posted by Grammaton
I can't see Thor gaining many (if any) victories here - without his hammer he isn't a match for the other 2.



I agree with that.

Superman takes the majority

Thor has the Odinforce.

Superman ftw.

Originally posted by Avlon
Superman ftw.

given the enclosed surroundings... Hulk will smack the crap out of Superman and Thor.

Hulk's fists can move fast enough, the amount of power he has behind them, guarantees that they move fast enough.

either that or he starts to break out the gamma attacks!

Hulk wins, inevitably.

Originally posted by janus77
given the enclosed surroundings... Hulk will smack the crap out of Superman and Thor.

Hulk's fists can move fast enough, the amount of power he has behind them, guarantees that they move fast enough.

either that or he starts to break out the gamma attacks!

Hulk wins, inevitably.

Come again......?

So you're completely disregarding, and dismissing Supermans MASSIVE speed advantage......for.....

'''Hulk's fists can move fast enough, the amount of power he has behind them, guarantees that they move fast enough.'''

Sorry pal, but...lol.

Superman has no many powers that Hulk really has no chance....and Supes strength also goes up with stress.

Supes again ftw.

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
Come again......?

So you're completely disregarding, and dismissing Supermans MASSIVE speed advantage......for.....

'''Hulk's fists can move fast enough, the amount of power he has behind them, guarantees that they move fast enough.'''

Sorry pal, but...lol.

I think the point hes making is that even if Hulk dindt have fast reflexes the power behind his muscles are capable of making him move at great speeds. I am kind of the opinion that Hulk can deal with FTl characters.

Originally posted by Avlon
Superman has no many powers that Hulk really has no chance....and Supes strength also goes up with stress.

Supes again ftw.

I dont think that really matters. Hulk is so strong and durable that he could resist all the different attacks. T-Vo probably isnt going to work either.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I dont think that really matters. Hulk is so strong and durable that he could resist all the different attacks. T-Vo probably isnt going to work either.

I beg to differ. The guy made a source powered infinity man rethink his strategy in fisticuffs. Hulk is done.

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/5272/dotng7p08ja8.th.jpg

I never thought of using T-vo. It has NEVER failed when used on far more powerful characters than the Hulk though...

Originally posted by Avlon
I beg to differ. The guy made a source powered infinity man rethink his strategy in fisticuffs. Hulk is done.

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/5272/dotng7p08ja8.th.jpg

I never thought of using T-vo. It has NEVER failed when used on far more powerful characters than the Hulk though...
that scan actually doesn't prove anything in particular.

Superman states that he is capable of smashing planets if he hits them long enough ie, he needs more than one punch to smash a planet.

Hulk doesn't even have to punch a planet, the energies he unleashes when pissed off are enough to break worlds. moreover he has literally held together a planet with his hands. so what's Superman going to do?

Superman cannot out-strength Hulk, ain't happening.

as Phantom Zone explained, Hulk's muscles are powered by force that is literally incalculable and would propel his fists fast enough to catch anyone in such close proximity (the Dome).

also, as I said before, he could just simple bathe the whole dome in his gamma energies. that stuff was shaking New York in WWH#5, and he wasn't even trying to do anything with it.

Originally posted by janus77
that scan actually doesn't prove anything in particular.

Superman states that he is capable of smashing planets if he hits them long enough ie, he needs more than one punch to smash a planet.

Hulk doesn't even have to punch a planet, the energies he unleashes when pissed off are enough to break worlds. moreover he has literally held together a planet with his hands. so what's Superman going to do?

Superman cannot out-strength Hulk, ain't happening.

as Phantom Zone explained, Hulk's muscles are powered by force that is literally incalculable and would propel his fists fast enough to catch anyone in such close proximity (the Dome).

also, as I said before, he could just simple bathe the whole dome in his gamma energies. that stuff was shaking New York in WWH#5, and he wasn't even trying to do anything with it.

The point had nothing to do with planet smashing.

It had to do with out-slugfesting the Infinity Man.

If the Hulk beat on the Infinity Man, he'd stand there with a big grin on his face.

"Silly *****, you can't hurt me! Do you know I am? I'm the mother ****in' INFINITY MAN, BIATCH."

Or something along those lines.

that's conjecture and not supported by the scan.
Infinity Man might just as well have been thinking, "hmm, can't waste time smacking sense into this moron, might as well just contain him in a field and get on with other things..."

like when Dormammu froze Hulk, just for the sake of a quick end to the annoyance.

Originally posted by Soljer
The point had nothing to do with planet smashing.

It had to do with out-slugfesting the Infinity Man.

If the Hulk beat on the Infinity Man, he'd stand there with a big grin on his face.

"Silly *****, you can't hurt me! Do you know I am? I'm the mother ****in' INFINITY MAN, BIATCH."

Or something along those lines.



As usual, Janus is as clueless as ever.

By his examples though, Surfer and Thanos should be no problem since the incalculable energy that flows through Hulks muscles give him the strength to overcome speed and one shot them both!

Janus is dumb as ****.

Originally posted by Avlon


As usual, Janus is as clueless as ever.

By his examples though, Surfer and Thanos should be no problem since the incalculable energy that flows through Hulks muscles give him the strength to overcome speed and one shot them both!

Er no the point that Janus said was valid, the samething could be applied to Dorammu. Dorammu could have taken ounches from the Hulk but decided to immobilize him to save him the fuss. Just because he doesnt want to slug it out doesnt neccesarily mean hes that much of a threat. I mean hell The guy even says "This should hold you long enough for me to deal with him whom I actually came for." In other words "Your just wasting my time."

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Er no the point that Janus said was valid, the samething could be applied to Dorammu. Dorammu could have taken ounches from the Hulk but decided to immobilize him to save him the fuss. Just because he doesnt want to slug it out doesnt neccesarily mean hes that much of a threat. I mean hell The guy even says "This should hold you long enough for me to deal with him whom I actually came for." In other words "Your just wasting my time."

Wasting my time?

Let's review;

IM: Superman, you shouldn't be involved. Depart and I won't murder you. Acknowledge my might is superior. Struggling is futile. My power is without limit!

*Superman begins knocking the shit out of him*

IM: Oh, shit, maybe I can't put him down. Maybe I can't murder him as if he were nothing. Maybe my might isn't all that superior. Maybe his struggle wasn't futile. Perhaps my power ISN'T without limit, since Superman just son'd the shit out of me. Better end this contest of melee combat.

Originally posted by Soljer
Wasting my time?

Let's review;

IM: Superman, you shouldn't be involved. Depart and I won't murder you. Acknowledge my might is superior. Struggling is futile. My power is without limit!

*Superman begins knocking the shit out of him*

IM: Oh, shit, maybe I can't put him down. Maybe I can't murder him as if he were nothing. Maybe my might isn't all that superior. Maybe his struggle wasn't futile. Perhaps my power ISN'T without limit, since Superman just son'd the shit out of me. Better end this contest of melee combat.

Well first of all why are we assuming that he wanted to fight with fisticuffs? He said his might is superior that is not specifically in strength. So Superman starts punching into Infinity Man, right didnt look to bothered in the next panel. Cap has gone H2H with Korvac doesnt mean hes stomping Hulk does it?

Anyway we know that Inifnity Man underestimated him but obvoulsy it seems IM would pawn the shit out of Superman anyday.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well first of all why are we assuming that he wanted to fight with fisticuffs? He said his might is superior that is not specifically in strength. So Superman starts punching into Infinity Man, right didnt look to bothered in the next panel. Cap has gone H2H with Korvac doesnt mean hes stomping Hulk does it?

Anyway we know that Inifnity Man underestimated him but obvoulsy it seems IM would pawn the shit out of Superman anyday.

I never said Infinity Man wouldn't be taking Superman.

But clearly not through sheer force. .

Superman base strength > Any incarnation of Hulk
Superman speed >>>>>>>> Any incarnation of Hulk
Superman intelligence >>>>>>> Most versions of Hulk
Superman abilities >>>>>>> Any incarnation of Hulk

Seems simple enough.

Superman > Hulk.

Mindless Hulk needs time and space to:

1. Fathom what is going on.
2. Grow in power to rival Superman.

In a confined box time and space will not be on the Hulk's side.

Originally posted by Soljer
I never said Infinity Man wouldn't be taking Superman.

But clearly not through sheer force. .

Yes I know you did.

I dunno man. Im pretty sure there are examples of Cap fighting physically superior opponets and they end up trying to blast him not because they cant beat him physically but they just cant take the hassle. Hell Ikaris could take Cap H2H in one encounter he just blasted him in the chest.

Anyway I dont know about IM strength feats but looking at his description he should be beating down Superman but of course I could be wrong. That its a legit interpretation of the scans and to be fair I was being a bit fanboyish there.

Phantom zone, I think you are tricky. You indeed have a picture of Superman (I think) under your name. But you always seem to argue against him for some strange reason. It also seems you favor Marvel characters over D.C. ones.

And to Janus. Yes Hulk's strength can grow to rival anyone elses. But this takes time. Now the thing that seperates Hulk from Superman the most is speed. Speed with sufficient power takes away Hulk's time.
Also Hulk's strength increases during each fight that he has. So you can't list feats and imply that this is Hulk's base strength or a strength he immediately jumped to. For example, when he fought Sentry, Hulk
had already went through the planet hulk saga, the blackbolt saga, the ironman saga, the x-men saga, etc. His strength had plenty of time to grow because of the damages and stress he had endured.

With that said, your fallacies are:
1. "Hulk has done X thus his strength is so and so right now."
This is a fallacy since we all know that this strength isn't Hulk's base strength.

2. "Hulk's strength will grow beyond anything in hardly no time."
This is faulty because of the word "will" (should be "can". Since Hulk has done this less than 1 out of 100 times means that this is more statistical than guaranteed. Thus from the entire history of Hulk we must ask, "What is the probability that Hulk's strength grow beyond such and such in X time?".

With that said, Superman can literally hit Hulk with at least moon smashing blows more times in one second than anyone can count to in a year . There is no way Hulk will have the time to rival Superman before he is koed.

Its Superman-Prime.

But Zone is just dumb so ignore him.

Originally posted by h1a8
Phantom zone, I think you are tricky. You indeed have a picture of Superman (I think) under your name. But you always seem to argue against him for some strange reason. It also seems you favor Marvel characters over D.C. ones.

And to Janus. Yes Hulk's strength can grow to rival anyone elses. But this takes time. Now the thing that seperates Hulk from Superman the most is speed. Speed with sufficient power takes away Hulk's time.
Also Hulk's strength increases during each fight that he has. So you can't list feats and imply that this is Hulk's base strength or a strength he immediately jumped to. For example, when he fought Sentry, Hulk
had already went through the planet hulk saga, the blackbolt saga, the ironman saga, the x-men saga, etc. His strength had plenty of time to grow because of the damages and stress he had endured.

With that said, your fallacies are:
1. "Hulk has done X thus his strength is so and so right now."
This is a fallacy since we all know that this strength isn't Hulk's base strength.

2. "Hulk's strength will grow beyond anything in hardly no time."
This is faulty because of the word "will" (should be "can". Since Hulk has done this less than 1 out of 100 times means that this is more statistical than guaranteed. Thus from the entire history of Hulk we must ask, "What is the probability that Hulk's strength grow beyond such and such in X time?".

With that said, Superman can literally hit Hulk with at least moon smashing blows more times in one second than anyone can count to in a year . There is no way Hulk will have the time to rival Superman before he is koed.
seriously, why do you persist in addressing me with these demonstrations of your glaring inability to comprehend argument, evidence or proof?

I'd recommend you take some lessons in critical thinking somewhere, maybe to a course in philosophy, I'm sure they offer that in high school.


just to address one of your many distortions, misrepresentations and misunderstandings of what I said. I did not ever deny that Hulk gets stronger during a fight, indeed I have often stated that, nor did I allude to any of the feats I referenced as being demonstrative of his "base strength", rather I provided them as illustration and further proof of my assertion that he becomes strong enough to match whoever he is going to fight, instantly. thereafter, he grows to overpower them.

as evidence of this, and your obvious attempts at dissembling, I'll point out again the one example you carefully omit from your babbling response, Hulk's fight with Onslaught.
Hulk going into that fight as a "base 100CL" of the type you envisage, would have been squished by the first blow Onslaught landed upon him, instead he went in knowing he was up against a monster and making himself a monster to rival it. same again with Zom/Strange too. Hulk was TORN THROUGH by Zom/Strange's punches, he healed in a panel, carried on fighting and obviously grew stronger to the point that, at the end, a mere THREE punches from him downed Zom/Strange.

anyway, I'll put you on ignore now and leave this as a lesson to you and your ilk, learn to read and comprehend an argument before you shoot your mouth off.

Mindless Hulk's intelligence is such that IMO he would be unable to comprehend the initial physical threat posed by Superman - and would not instantly become his equal or superior until being engaged.

Hulk needs at least some time for his emotions to link into his power. Superman does not.

The end.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Mindless Hulk's intelligence is such that IMO he would be unable to comprehend the initial physical threat posed by Superman - and would not instantly become his equal or superior until being engaged.

Hulk needs at least some time for his emotions to link into his power. Superman does not.

The end.
rubbish.
Mindless Hulk is more instinctual and quicker to become enraged.
you put him in a forums fight, he will smash, that's what he will want to do, that's what he'll be ready to do.

if Superman snuck up on him, if mindless Hulk didn't know it was a fight, then you might have an argument. happily, in forum fights, all parties know what they're expected to do and who they're up against.

Originally posted by janus77
rubbish.
Mindless Hulk is more instinctual and quicker to become enraged.
you put him in a forums fight, he will smash, that's what he will want to do, that's what he'll be ready to do.

if Superman snuck up on him, if mindless Hulk didn't know it was a fight, then you might have an argument. happily, in forum fights, all parties know what they're expected to do and who they're up against.

Evidently you assume too much. Intelligence levels equivelent to that of a primitive man means he will have little grasp of his emotions and the potential the Hulk normally knows he has (the madder hulk gets the stronger Hulk gets).

I found this little extract (hulklibrary.com) to be most informative on the mindless hulk:

Strength Level: Initially lifts 90 tons. Although he has the potential for limitless strength, his simple mind limits his strength level.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Evidently you assume too much. Intelligence levels equivelent to that of a primitive man means he will have little grasp of his emotions and the potential the Hulk normally knows he has (the madder hulk gets the stronger Hulk gets).

I found this little extract (hulklibrary.com) to be most informative on the mindless hulk:

Strength Level: Initially lifts 90 tons. Although he has the potential for limitless strength, his simple mind limits his strength level.
actually my assumption was that Banner knew more about Hulk and Hulk's powers than some line in a bio somewhere.
as he asked Jean Grey to completely shut off Banner's influence upon Hulk before stepping into the ring against Onslaught. Banner wanted to remove any impediments to Hulk's power.

Mindless Hulk demonstrated that he could access enough power to hang with Onslaught. moreover, he demonstrated an instinctual-awareness of the danger Onslaught posed and dealt with him carefully.

it's perfectly ok to dislike the character, to belittle it etc etc, but you shouldn't engage in a debate about the character's hypothetical capabilities without first making yourself aware of what his established powers and feats are.

Originally posted by janus77
actually my assumption was that Banner knew more about Hulk and Hulk's powers than some line in a bio somewhere.
as he asked Jean Grey to completely shut off Banner's influence upon Hulk before stepping into the ring against Onslaught. Banner wanted to remove any impediments to Hulk's power.

Mindless Hulk demonstrated that he could access enough power to hang with Onslaught. moreover, he demonstrated an instinctual-awareness of the danger Onslaught posed and dealt with him carefully.

it's perfectly ok to dislike the character, to belittle it etc etc, but you shouldn't engage in a debate about the character's hypothetical capabilities without first making yourself aware of what his established powers and feats are.

Again you assume too much. Hulk is probably my favourite comicbook hero. I just like to see arguments presented from a non bias point of view. In no way am I trying to belittle the Hulk.

I have no doubt that a "normal" incarnation of the Hulk would be victorious - however I stand by my opinion of the mindless Hulk - and the disadvantages his lack of intelligence presents in a battle of this nature.

The Hulk had already attained massive levels of power AND rage in his battle with Onslaught before having Banner "switched off" - the mindless Hulk did nothing to gain that level of power - he merely put it to use IMO.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Again you assume too much. Hulk is probably my favourite comicbook hero. I just like to see arguments presented from a non bias point of view. In no way am I trying to belittle the Hulk.

I have no doubt that a "normal" incarnation of the Hulk would be victorious - however I stand by my opinion of the mindless Hulk - and the disadvantages his lack of intelligence presents in a battle of this nature.

The Hulk had already attained massive levels of power AND rage in his battle with Onslaught before having Banner "switched off" - the mindless Hulk did nothing to gain that level of power - he merely put it to use IMO.
lol,
go read the battle again. Banner asked to have the Banner persona switched off so that Hulk could fight with more power. you have no basis for such speculation, seriously.

all you're arguing from is on-line bios, and you're attempting to use them to negate on-panel, explicitly stated and pictorially demonstrated, proof of how Hulk works. ie that Banner is the limiting factor/the mechanism for containing/suppressing the infinite energies that Hulk would otherwise be churning out.

if you want more proof, check out the time when, during Onslaught reborn, Banner and Banner-less Hulk co-exist in different universes. the Banner-less Hulk is emitting energies because he can't control himself too well.

another, more recent, example is when in WWH Hulk finally looses his temper good and proper and begins to fall into insanity, the spike in gamma is humongous, the shockwaves from the energies he unleashes - and energy levels that are attained in the space of 2 panels - threaten to break the world.


there's plenty more. even The Beyonder commented on how Hulk without Banner = infinite power, that Banner is the finite element, the control and limiting factor (Banner being, if you like, the super-ego, deciding good and right and suppressing the desires of the Id).

Originally posted by janus77
lol,
go read the battle again. Banner asked to have the Banner persona switched off so that Hulk could fight with more power. you have no basis for such speculation, seriously.

all you're arguing from is on-line bios, and you're attempting to use them to negate on-panel, explicitly stated and pictorially demonstrated, proof of how Hulk works. ie that Banner is the limiting factor/the mechanism for containing/suppressing the infinite energies that Hulk would otherwise be churning out.

if you want more proof, check out the time when, during Onslaught reborn, Banner and Banner-less Hulk co-exist in different universes. the Banner-less Hulk is emitting energies because he can't control himself too well.

another, more recent, example is when in WWH Hulk finally looses his temper good and proper and begins to fall into insanity, the spike in gamma is humongous, the shockwaves from the energies he unleashes - and energy levels that are attained in the space of 2 panels - threaten to break the world.


there's plenty more. even The Beyonder commented on how Hulk without Banner = infinite power, that Banner is the finite element, the control and limiting factor (Banner being, if you like, the super-ego, deciding good and right and suppressing the desires of the Id).

Ok fine let us assume then that mindless Hulk can potentially achieve the same level of strength that any other Hulk can - and possibly in less time.

You can not deny that his lack of any intelligence is going to hold him back in an enclosed fight with somone like Superman who can concievably move faster than it would take MH to react and become sufficiently enraged.

Although mindless Hulk conceivably has greater potential than other incarnations of the Hulk - I don't believe he has the same ability as the others to attain it.

it's because Hulk neither tires nor 'taps out' that I think the confined surroundings suite him well. Superman could get a dozen or so hits in perhaps, but that's not going to be enough to put Hulk down and Hulk's going to be flailing around with his gargantuan fists, smashing into both Thor and Superman. all Hulk needs is to connect with a couple of world busting smacks and Superman is in trouble.

also, in-between fighting Thor, Superman may not even have that much time to attempt to strategise against Hulk. in some ways, it's like Superman versus DD, the ideal battle plan for Superman is to fight from a distance, stay out of range etc etc ... every option that the Dome forecloses.

ok, all that said... I do agree that Mindless Hulk isn't a brilliant battle tactician, isn't smart enough to spot a trap etc etc, but I don't think that tactics or strategy can play apart in this kind of scenario, it's all too close up and immediate.

Originally posted by janus77
seriously, why do you persist in addressing me with these demonstrations of your glaring inability to comprehend argument, evidence or proof?

I'd recommend you take some lessons in critical thinking somewhere, maybe to a course in philosophy, I'm sure they offer that in high school.


just to address one of your many distortions, misrepresentations and misunderstandings of what I said. I did not ever deny that Hulk gets stronger during a fight, indeed I have often stated that, nor did I allude to any of the feats I referenced as being demonstrative of his "base strength", rather I provided them as illustration and further proof of my assertion that he becomes strong enough to match whoever he is going to fight, instantly. thereafter, he grows to overpower them.

as evidence of this, and your obvious attempts at dissembling, I'll point out again the one example you carefully omit from your babbling response, Hulk's fight with Onslaught.
Hulk going into that fight as a "base 100CL" of the type you envisage, would have been squished by the first blow Onslaught landed upon him, instead he went in knowing he was up against a monster and making himself a monster to rival it. same again with Zom/Strange too. Hulk was TORN THROUGH by Zom/Strange's punches, he healed in a panel, carried on fighting and obviously grew stronger to the point that, at the end, a mere THREE punches from him downed Zom/Strange.

anyway, I'll put you on ignore now and leave this as a lesson to you and your ilk, learn to read and comprehend an argument before you shoot your mouth off.

Nothing you said here actually contradicts what I've said. You just confirmed it. You ignore the fact that it takes time for Hulk to get stronger (even statistically). He doesn't automatically starts strong enough or gets strong enough instantly. Whether it is 5 seconds or 2 it definitely takes some significant amount of time for Hulk to gain any strength.

The Onslaught scenario was bogus altogether. So there is no sense in
even trying to make any sense out of it. They tore their a$$ with many when they decided to let the gem be inside Jugg's chest.

And know this, the head is the key to victory (not the chest).

Originally posted by janus77
actually my assumption was that Banner knew more about Hulk and Hulk's powers than some line in a bio somewhere.
as he asked Jean Grey to completely shut off Banner's influence upon Hulk before stepping into the ring against Onslaught. Banner wanted to remove any impediments to Hulk's power.

Mindless Hulk demonstrated that he could access enough power to hang with Onslaught. moreover, he demonstrated an instinctual-awareness of the danger Onslaught posed and dealt with him carefully.

it's perfectly ok to dislike the character, to belittle it etc etc, but you shouldn't engage in a debate about the character's hypothetical capabilities without first making yourself aware of what his established powers and feats are.

Onslaught gave Hulk a billion years to get mad enough.
Hulk didn't get strong enough instantly.
It was like Onslaught did it on purpose or something.

Originally posted by janus77
it's because Hulk neither tires nor 'taps out' that I think the confined surroundings suite him well. Superman could get a dozen or so hits in perhaps, but that's not going to be enough to put Hulk down and Hulk's going to be flailing around with his gargantuan fists, smashing into both Thor and Superman. all Hulk needs is to connect with a couple of world busting smacks and Superman is in trouble.

also, in-between fighting Thor, Superman may not even have that much time to attempt to strategise against Hulk. in some ways, it's like Superman versus DD, the ideal battle plan for Superman is to fight from a distance, stay out of range etc etc ... every option that the Dome forecloses.

ok, all that said... I do agree that Mindless Hulk isn't a brilliant battle tactician, isn't smart enough to spot a trap etc etc, but I don't think that tactics or strategy can play apart in this kind of scenario, it's all too close up and immediate.
Hulk would be a statue to Superman for a long time.
Personally, a couple of moon busting blows to the head should do the trick. But know this, if Superman wanted he could "literally" hit Hulk over a million times within the 1st sec. If you say that Hulk can initially survive a million moon busting hits to the brain without being at least koed while he's at base levels then it is totally pointless to ever argue with you. You might as well say that it is physically impossible to ko Hulk.

Originally posted by h1a8
Hulk would be a statue to Superman for a long time.
Personally, a couple of moon busting blows to the head should do the trick. But know this, if Superman wanted he could "literally" hit Hulk over a million times within the 1st sec. If you say that Hulk can initially survive a million moon busting hits to the brain without being at least koed while he's at base levels then it is totally pointless to ever argue with you. You might as well say that it is physically impossible to ko Hulk. Well its proven janus is dumb, so give up.

Seriously, Hulk fans on KMC generally do the character more harm then good!

Thats an understatement.

That and WWH ruined him at one point on KMC.

Janus has his moments but he still is a dumbass that ruins him.

Originally posted by janus77
it's because Hulk neither tires nor 'taps out' that I think the confined surroundings suite him well. Superman could get a dozen or so hits in perhaps, but that's not going to be enough to put Hulk down and Hulk's going to be flailing around with his gargantuan fists, smashing into both Thor and Superman. all Hulk needs is to connect with a couple of world busting smacks and Superman is in trouble.

also, in-between fighting Thor, Superman may not even have that much time to attempt to strategise against Hulk. in some ways, it's like Superman versus DD, the ideal battle plan for Superman is to fight from a distance, stay out of range etc etc ... every option that the Dome forecloses.

ok, all that said... I do agree that Mindless Hulk isn't a brilliant battle tactician, isn't smart enough to spot a trap etc etc, but I don't think that tactics or strategy can play apart in this kind of scenario, it's all too close up and immediate.

Admittedly I haven't even thought about Thor - because he is the weakest link here and I can't see him matching the other 2. Having said that an temp alliance between Superman & Thor against Hulk is far more likely than any other way when it comes to strategy.

Also Superman is likely to get ALOT more than just a dozen punches in. Superman has claimed more than once to move faster than it takes somone to even think let alone react.

Being close up and immediate doesn't sway the battle in mindless Hulk's favour - who IMO needs time and space to be able to react emotionally first and then physically to the threat infront of him.

Good points however.

Thor shouldn't be underestimated in H2H.

Originally posted by Baloo
Thor shouldn't be underestimated in H2H.

No he shouldn't but without Mjolnir he can't match either of these 2.

Originally posted by Baloo
Well its proven janus is dumb, so give up. It's proven bashing people is against the rules, so YOU need to give it up. Thanks.

Originally posted by h1a8
He was already ridiculously strong at the beginning. So his base was much higher than a normal mindless Hulk. Also, Onslaught allowed him to get even madder. The problem here is that Superman won't allow such a thing as he will hit
Hulk a million times in 1 second (It would probably take only 10 hits to ko Hulk though).

I want to see this black hole thing. How did he escape it? Surfer is not more durable than Superman or Thor, I disagree. Surfer has been hurt and koed far too many times for me to agree to that.
Most would agree that it grows exponentially. As proportionally is far too slow (linear in fact). But I can agree it grows proportionally since it says so in his official bios.
No it isn't. Its just 100 tons. The reason it was so high in the Onslaught saga was because he
was made to be very angry in the beginning process and the fact that his anger grew some more as Hulk was being overpowered at first. Onslaught allowed Hulk to get stronger for some odd reason.
Comics aren't that scientific. Characters can lift things all the time without them crumbling under their own weight.
The writer's intention was to show how heavy the helicarrier to Sentry.

I disagree that he stalemated genis vell. Why do many take that fight as such? And weak is a relative term.

I think i need to explain this clearly. In d fight against onslught at first he was normal prof hulk and certainly not ridiculously strong at the beginning as u hv stated. however immediately jean grey switched off bruce banner in his mind which FYI is what is normally called mindless hulk he went berserk and stared attacking and taking hits from onsluaght. Where was the time to amp?. He got to the lvl of strength needed to take on onlsaught the instant he went mindless. Him going mindless provided all the amping that was needed for him to take hits from a full powered onsluaght( hits that could stop the juggernaut and send im cross continen). However the hulk goin mindless only gave im enough strength to take on onlsaught physically but not to beat him. During the process of the fight however he became strong enough to destroy onslaughts armour wit one punch.

It seems dat the mindless u are refering to is d old one who took on the avengers team and thor. However i prefer to use the one dat fought onslaught is dis is a more recent depiction of the charcter.

And yes the surfer is more durable dan superman and thor. Based on durability feats he certainly has the edge.

Originally posted by janus77
seriously, why do you persist in addressing me with these demonstrations of your glaring inability to comprehend argument, evidence or proof?

I'd recommend you take some lessons in critical thinking somewhere, maybe to a course in philosophy, I'm sure they offer that in high school.


just to address one of your many distortions, misrepresentations and misunderstandings of what I said. I did not ever deny that Hulk gets stronger during a fight, indeed I have often stated that, nor did I allude to any of the feats I referenced as being demonstrative of his "base strength", rather I provided them as illustration and further proof of my assertion that he becomes strong enough to match whoever he is going to fight, instantly. thereafter, he grows to overpower them.

as evidence of this, and your obvious attempts at dissembling, I'll point out again the one example you carefully omit from your babbling response, Hulk's fight with Onslaught.
Hulk going into that fight as a "base 100CL" of the type you envisage, would have been squished by the first blow Onslaught landed upon him, instead he went in knowing he was up against a monster and making himself a monster to rival it. same again with Zom/Strange too. Hulk was TORN THROUGH by Zom/Strange's punches, he healed in a panel, carried on fighting and obviously grew stronger to the point that, at the end, a mere THREE punches from him downed Zom/Strange.

anyway, I'll put you on ignore now and leave this as a lesson to you and your ilk, learn to read and comprehend an argument before you shoot your mouth off.

Why at times people reply h1a8 when he persists with such arguments is beyond me

Originally posted by h1a8
Phantom zone, I think you are tricky. You indeed have a picture of Superman (I think) under your name. But you always seem to argue against him for some strange reason. It also seems you favor Marvel characters over D.C. ones.

And to Janus. Yes Hulk's strength can grow to rival anyone elses. But this takes time. Now the thing that seperates Hulk from Superman the most is speed. Speed with sufficient power takes away Hulk's time.
Also Hulk's strength increases during each fight that he has. So you can't list feats and imply that this is Hulk's base strength or a strength he immediately jumped to. For example, when he fought Sentry, Hulk
had already went through the planet hulk saga, the blackbolt saga, the ironman saga, the x-men saga, etc. His strength had plenty of time to grow because of the damages and stress he had endured.

With that said, your fallacies are:
1. "Hulk has done X thus his strength is so and so right now."
This is a fallacy since we all know that this strength isn't Hulk's base strength.

2. "Hulk's strength will grow beyond anything in hardly no time."
This is faulty because of the word "will" (should be "can". Since Hulk has done this less than 1 out of 100 times means that this is more statistical than guaranteed. Thus from the entire history of Hulk we must ask, "What is the probability that Hulk's strength grow beyond such and such in X time?".

With that said, Superman can literally hit Hulk with at least moon smashing blows more times in one second than anyone can count to in a year . There is no way Hulk will have the time to rival Superman before he is koed.

Again with this thing of the hulk not having time to rival superman strength lvl. This is indeed one of the most stupid things ive ever read. Mindless hulk was able to get to onslaught lvl of strength immediately banners mind went off Not after a second or two of amping but immediately. Banner knew this would happen and this is why he requested for his mind to be turned off in the first place. During d fight he then grew to lvls above onslught strength but he was strong enough initially to slug it out wit onslaught.

Secondly the idea of hulk accumulating strength over a period of time inorder for him to be able to take on onslaught as just laughable. Before he went mindless the hulks strength lvl was nowhere close to onslaughts but immediuatel banners mind was switched off he was at that lvl, Id like to think that banners mind is switched off in this fight and therefore the lvl he is at should be far above supermans strength lvl