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Now that we have new information about the Phoenix Force, does anyone want to speculate on how this would go?

It really depends on wether the phoenix's power exists outside reality (I.e. is the white room out side the universe ?) If not Scarlet whitch should win. She beats ayone below Abstarct level, If her powers are as immense as suggested on this forum !

P.S. save this for a week or two, Whirly has been banned.

Whirly got banned?! Really?! When did this happen? What happened? What did I miss? I swear, I leave for a weekend, GS is depressed and Whirly is banned!

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
Whirly got banned?! Really?! When did this happen? What happened? What did I miss? I swear, I leave for a weekend, GS is depressed and Whirly is banned!

Sentry grassed on him, and poala banned him for two weeks !

With the fall of the Phoenix, thus begins the reign of the Scarlet Witch!

Psi-Lord has a bunch of self-imposed limits. He's actually weaker than Franklin Richards. Phoenix also has a bunch of limits and has stamina issues. Scarlet Witch just wishes them both away and that's that.

Originally posted by Fishy 500

P.S. save this for a week or two, Whirly has been banned.

What the hell difference would Whirly make? Without GS for him to make fun of, Whirly is basically useless on these threads, lol.

Okay, I'm sorry. What I meant was Phoenix/Jean and Franklin Richards at their primes.

So what limits does Phoenix have now. I missed out on the fall of Phoenix this past week?

Originally posted by demigawd
What the hell difference would Whirly make? Without GS for him to make fun of, Whirly is basically useless on these threads, lol.

Where the hell is the 'Hand' I havn't seen him for ages !

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
Now that we have new information about the Phoenix Force, does anyone want to speculate on how this would go?

Whats this new info about the phoenix?

Originally posted by Fishy 500
Where the hell is the 'Hand' I havn't seen him for ages !

Got run off.

Originally posted by The Ion
So what limits does Phoenix have now. I missed out on the fall of Phoenix this past week?

Phoenix is just a chick with unlimited psi power and not a lot of expertise in how to use it, combined with a lot of mental restrictions that would make her a liability in combat.

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
Okay, I'm sorry. What I meant was Phoenix/Jean and Franklin Richards at their primes.

Scarlet Witch still tops them both. Franklin's top feat was creating a pocket universe, which is impressive, but below Wanda's ability to alter the multiverse and destroy all of creation. That goes beyond Phoenix, too, who didn't see "jgg" coming.

Originally posted by Crimson Phoenix
Whats this new info about the phoenix?


Best place - check out the Handbook entry on Phoenix.

It's really not any new info, it just contradicted everything GS was trying to tell us.

by that bio's description, it seems like the Phoenix Force is potentially WELL above eternity. the phoenix has access to the life energy of the entire marvel timeline...while abstracts aren't really alive, so i wouldn't count them, at the very least the phoenix force is (logically) more powerful than all the celestials combined.

it seems to be by choice that phoenix does not manifest this power, because it destroys future life force.

or something.

So demi, where would you place Scarlet Witch on a hierarchy of power?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t379750.html

Originally posted by demigawd
Best place - check out the Handbook entry on Phoenix.

It's really not any new info, it just contradicted everything GS was trying to tell us.

Whatever dont look on Wiki ... I think G.S. is chief editor !

Originally posted by Fishy 500
Whatever dont look on Wiki ... I think G.S. is chief editor ! LOL!!!!!

Originally posted by hoorayforpeepee
by that bio's description, it seems like the Phoenix Force is potentially WELL above eternity. the phoenix has access to the life energy of the entire marvel timeline...while abstracts aren't really alive, so i wouldn't count them, at the very least the phoenix force is (logically) more powerful than all the celestials combined.

it seems to be by choice that phoenix does not manifest this power, because it destroys future life force.

or something.

I think that's a good assessment. On the hierarchy list I put together, I addressed similar concepts. The Phoenix Force is an energy store used for creation, but Jean Grey is just a girl who uses the Phoenix Force the same way the Silver Surfer uses the Power Cosmic....just because the Phoenix Force is responsible for multiversal creation doesn't mean that Jean has the power or the knowledge to do it. I think at full expression, she can take Galactus, and MAYBE even a Celestial or two....but it stops there.

Originally posted by Fishy 500
Whatever dont look on Wiki ... I think G.S. is chief editor !

haha...yeah, I don't trust Wikipedia for accurate information. The Marvel Handbook is the only trusted source on the history of a character.

Originally posted by The Ion
So demi, where would you place Scarlet Witch on a hierarchy of power?

Good question. To be perfectly honest, I powered up Scarlet Witch only for the sake of combating GS's Phoenix. In truth, both of them being human, should be below universal abstracts and should be totally torn apart by what they embody, the way they did with Thanos in the IW. Thanos was smart enough to resist, but I don't see that being the case with either Jean or Wanda. So I'd put Wanda at the top of the physical being chain - Above Celestials. I'd put Jean just below her.

Did this new handbook say anything new about Wanda, about how powerful she really is?

Dunno....didn't pick it up myself. Anybody know?

Nope.

Apocalypse
Archangel
Jamie Braddock
Cable
Cannonball
Captain Britain
Colossus
Danger
Fantomex
Genosha
Hellfire Club
Husk
Jubilee
Kid Omega
Lockheed
Magneto
Mystique
Northstar
Ord
Phoenix Force
Psylocke
Savage Land
Stepford Cuckoos
Sunfire
X-23
Xorn

Probably have to wait for the A-Z books for Wanda.

Originally posted by The Ion
Nope.

Apocalypse
Archangel
Jamie Braddock
Cable
Cannonball
Captain Britain
Colossus
Danger
Fantomex
Genosha
Hellfire Club
Husk
Jubilee
Kid Omega
Lockheed
Magneto
Mystique
Northstar
Ord
Phoenix Force
Psylocke
Savage Land
Stepford Cuckoos
Sunfire
X-23
Xorn

Probably have to wait for the A-Z books for Wanda.

is this meant to be a hirachy of power? by that i mean is the list from strongest to weakest? cus if it is then all i can say is whoah whoah and whoah if not then ignore this post

Originally posted by tiakocom
is this meant to be a hirachy of power? by that i mean is the list from strongest to weakest? cus if it is then all i can say is whoah whoah and whoah if not then ignore this post No, it's just alphabetical order.

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
No, it's just alphabetical order.

ohhh, well then all is well then lol.

Did Phoenix actually get retconned or is this still speculation from that one FF comic or what?

Originally posted by demigawd
What the hell difference would Whirly make? Without GS for him to make fun of, Whirly is basically useless on these threads, lol. Even with GS what did Whirly ever really accomplish?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Even with GS what did Whirly ever really accomplish?
He has a sidekick. Not many people can make that claim.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Did Phoenix actually get retconned or is this still speculation from that one FF comic or what?

It was never a retcon. It all fits in.

The problem with the new handbook info is that it's selective, includes events that aren't in comics anywhere and is conflicting. It includes one sentence about Here Comes Tomorrow because it's a POSSIBLE future, not an alternate timeline. It also omits Giraud's appearances from GOTG (which I'm figuring is for the same reason as HTC).

As far as what the Phoenix can do and what Jean knows how to do...Jean erased the HCT timeline because she wanted to, not because of any particular knowledge. Phoenix has also been shown to erase people from existence subconsciously as well, and it has virtually unlimited command of all forms of energy. Note also that the entry says that the PF merged with Jean fully.

Both of Scarlet Witch's opponents are TPs, at least one of whom has shown the ability to turn off a mutant's powers. As much power as she has, if either or both of them restrict her access to it, that's it for her. Jean's also been shown to get around having a lobotomy and her mutant abilities removed. I don't think SW falls easily, but I think that she ultimately would fall to Phoenix.

Demigawd's ignorance of the phoenix force is atrocious! I demand a penalty for this accusation.

Originally posted by demigawd
Got run off.



Phoenix is just a chick with unlimited psi power and not a lot of expertise in how to use it, combined with a lot of mental restrictions that would make her a liability in combat.



Scarlet Witch still tops them both. Franklin's top feat was creating a pocket universe, which is impressive, but below Wanda's ability to alter the multiverse and destroy all of creation. That goes beyond Phoenix, too, who didn't see "jgg" coming.

HMM? What does Parallax have to do with this? and Let's see wanda Fight off the Spectre and Wave Rider and a bunch of others and still manage to do what she did. I doubt it.