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they were both each other's counterpart for the respective universes, so, who wins, debate away{if this hasnt been done already}

This is silly superman would rip juggs helmet off and cruish his head. Superman wins no contest.

Pre-Crisis Superman.
I love Classic Juggernaut, but he is for naught against a being that can simply fly to the other side of the planet, and push the entire orb into the center of a blackhole. Would that kill Class. Jugs ....maybe not.
But it would surely end the fight pronto.

Pre-C Superman wins.

And Classic Juggernaut is rather out of his league here. Not because he is weak or anything, but primarily because he is simply too one-dimensional against a being who is simply exceedingly varied in terms of powers and capabilities. Especially the levels Superman was at during the Pre-Crisis era.
To be truly honest this wouldn't even be a fight.

Originally posted by Mordum
This is silly superman would rip juggs helmet off and cruish his head. Superman wins no contest.

i guess u forgot to read CLASSIC juggernaut then.

Superman.

superman would take jugg into space and murder him there.

Superman 10/10

You can not beat Juggernaut Physically the only way to stop him is by attacking his mind. Immeasurable Stamina and Total Indestructible Durability

Originally posted by golem370
You can not beat Juggernaut Physically the only way to stop him is by attacking his mind. Immeasurable Stamina and Total Indestructible Durability Superman blows a "giant star" at his opponent.

Superman throws him through time/space maybe?

That's not tell me anything Juggernaut has took a God Force shot at almost point blank range.

Originally posted by golem370
That's not tell me anything Juggernaut has took a God Force shot at almost point blank range. Show it.


Juggs isn't fast enough to touch Superman.
And Superman blow planets away with breath.



Convince me of how Juggs can win.

Superman will fly jugg into a black hole. Theres no way jugg can survive a black hole he would just die.

I don't care what any of you pro superman people think.

Juggernaut is...................UNSTOPPABLE!!!!!!!!


Superman might win the fight, be he wouldn't be able to hurt Juggy through conventional means. He could ringout him, or do something unconventional to him, like try to go back in time and stop Cain from ever becoming the Juggernaut (if he knew where to go/what to do). So yeah, Juggs won't be physically hurt but could be dealt with in other ways.

It would be neat to see Superman just try to slug it out with him for a while, though. Before realizing it is useless and resorting to some other solution.

Originally posted by Blain
I don't care what any of you pro superman people think.

Juggernaut is...................UNSTOPPABLE!!!!!!!! Explain how he would win then.

I not sure anybody would win. But Superman not going to beat at-least not completely

Another pic just how durable Juggernaut is

You're just not getting it, Superman before Crisis on Infinite Earths could do anything.

Transmute matter.
Telepathy.
Invent anything, even if it didn't make sense.
Had any power... even if it didn't make sense.

ANYTHING.

Juggs will get his helmet handed to him, LionHeart, and this is not a knock on Juggy. PC Supes came up with BS on the fly. He has the anticytorrak verbal magic code word at his arsenal. That's how powerful PC Supes was.

Originally posted by golem370
That's not tell me anything Juggernaut has took a God Force shot at almost point blank range.

I know you are pro-Marvel (and there is nothing at all wrong with that ....in fact when it comes to certain characters I lean towards Marvel at times, and other times DC).
However in this case Classical Juggernaut is TOTALLY outmatched. As I said in a prior post this wouldn't even be a fight.
And Pre-Crisis Superman would win.

In fact he wouldn't even have to touch Juggernaut .....he wouldn't even need to be near him. As i said he could simply fly to the other side of the earth and just toss the planet into a black hole. Or a red giant. Or ......!
Now, Classical Juggernaut may not die, but he just lost the fight.

Pre-Crisis Superman is simply too far above Classical Juggernaut for Jugs to be a threat.

But your not telling me how he going to beat him because he Can't the more he hit Juggernaut the More he going to stand there and laugh at Superman period they only way to Stop the Juggernaut is to attack his mind or attack his magic and since Superman from when was invinted he as always had a weekness to Magic he can't harm Juggernaut.......

Ok Show me a pic of Pre Crisis Superman.

He'd take a quick trip to the Fortress and build a ray gun to nullify the Crimson Ruby. Then it's open season on Cain.

err honestly pre-Crisis Superman is kind of a misnomer Iguess it depends on how far back you go. Do you mena Superman when he first came out? Cause Juggernaut would murder him. Hell he couldn't even fly then.

Of course no one is talking about that superman....geessh.

Originally posted by Juntai
You're just not getting it, Superman before Crisis on Infinite Earths could do anything.

Transmute matter.
Telepathy.
Invent anything, even if it didn't make sense.
Had any power... even if it didn't make sense.

ANYTHING. That's why they had to kill him off. PC Supes would win this in some stupid and boring way.

No, we are not referring to 1940's version of Superman...we're speaking of the late 70's, early 80's version that never lost a fight it got so boring.

Pre-Crisis Superman did whatever he wanted with no bounds to logic. I don't see how Juggernaut can beat him.

yeah the J doesn't have chance as that SUperman was GOD.

Originally posted by golem370
Ok Show me a pic of Pre Crisis Superman. I already did.

Originally posted by golem370
But your not telling me how he going to beat him because he Can't the more he hit Juggernaut the More he going to stand there and laugh at Superman period they only way to Stop the Juggernaut is to attack his mind or attack his magic and since Superman from when was invinted he as always had a weekness to Magic he can't harm Juggernaut.......

I just said Superman would win.
And I know that written well Juggernaut (esp. Classical) is impervious to physical assault.
However note several things.
First of all he is only impervious to assaults that are exuded by sources less powerful than Cytorrak himself/herself/itself. But due to the fact that Cytorrak is immensely powerful this is a moot point, and thus it can be taken as a givent hat Juggernaut is impervious to all physical harm.

However this brings the second aspect into play.
This fight asked who would win.
Not who would pummel the other into the ground.
Not who would sing lullabies to the other and lull them to sleep.
Not who would make the best sushi this side of the orient.
Nope ....it asked who would win.

Pre-Crisis Superman would win ....and he would win with tremendous ease.
Why?
Because the Juggernaut (any iteration of the Juggernaut) is simply too
uni-dimensional for Superman ....particularly Pre--Crisis Superman who could basically do anything.

Remember the example I gave where all Supes would need to do is fly to the other side of the earth and push it into a blackhole.
Well, he doesn't even have to do that.
He could simply fly to Pluto and BLOW the Earth into a blackhole.
Huff and puff and blow the earth, with Jugs, away.

When it comes to winning the fight it is a given .......Pre-Crisis Superman wins.

Now, when it comes to the ability to go against Cytorrak that is a matter for another discussion, but this thread asked who would win.

Pre-Crisis Superman would .....with astounding ease.

That's not beating Juggernaut that being weak and just ringouting Juggernaut not beating him.

jugg loses anyway you slice it. Everyone on this post seems to be agreeing except golem370 cause hes lonely and needs conversation.

Originally posted by golem370
That's not beating Juggernaut that being weak and just ringouting Juggernaut not beating him.

LOL.
Being 'weak!'
That is a statement worthy of someone like W8888 not you.

And a win is a win.

It would be like the US applying economic sanctions on some nation (call it Banana Republic), and totally messing it up economically, and at the same time the US using covert agents (read:CIA) to rouse the rabble in Banana Republic and cause dissent within the populace; with the idea being that the mix of economic upheaval and internal schism will lead to political change.
Something that happened a lot in the 50s and 60s courtesy of our boys at Langley.

Anyways, the US does that, and the nation being targeted collapses (in that the economy and the political hegemon is destroyed, and thus new 'pro-American' leadership is instituted in the Banana Republic).

BUT then you see the deposed leaders start to say that the US was 'weak' because it didn't use military force and whatnot.

Yet the fact is that the US defeated the nation without firing a single shot, without losing a single American life, and managed to get rid of the older leadership and institute new leaders who are basically puppets of the US government. This sort of thing happened a lot (especially in South American and some parts of Africa and the mid-East) in the 50s and 60s, and part of the 70s.
Was it a military victory?
No.
Was it a victory?
Yes.
A victory is a victory.

This is the same thing.
You say Superman is weak because he blew away the entire planet, and Juggernaut with it, into a black hole.
If that is weak I'd love to see what strong is.

PRe-Crisis Superman wouldn't have to do anything to Juggernaut ....he would win simply by BLOWING.
From Pluto!

Tell me ONE way Classical Juggernaut could beat Pre-Crisis Superman (oh, and assume that Pre-Crisis Superman is NOT stupid .....PRe-Crisis S was a genius, thus he will not do anything foolish like walking up to Juggernaut and laying on the ground asking for a foot stomp).

Superman is simply too varied for Juggernaut.

PRe-C Superman wins.

Originally posted by golem370
You can not beat Juggernaut Physically the only way to stop him is by attacking his mind. Immeasurable Stamina and Total Indestructible Durability

"Quickly, reversing the polarity around himself by spinning with speeds of 1000 times of light, Superman absorbs all the psionic energy of the MULTIVERSE, and fusing it in himself by spinning backwards with his eyes closed, becoming the ULTIMATE TELEPATH!"

The man could do anything he wanted.

http://www.superdickery.com/images/stupor/1711hypnotismsuper7ok.jpg

http://www.superdickery.com/images/stupor/whoa9wo.jpg

Originally posted by golem370
That's not beating Juggernaut that being weak and just ringouting Juggernaut not beating him.

Another example is the whole Israeli-Palestinian debacle.

The Palestinians accuse the Israelis all the time of 'cowardice' because while the Palestinian youth are using slingshots to throw stones the Israeli respond with Cobra helicopters and F-16I Soufas (the Israeli F-16 version).
The Palestinians claim that the Israelis are 'cowards' because they do not face them mano-a-mano.

To which I laugh.
A win is a win, and it is not weakness to take advantage of your strengths and use the weaknesses (and limitations) of your opponent.

Same thing with Jugs and Supes.

Juggernaut is a one-dimensional character who is limited only to linear attacks at ground level. That's all. He has strength, and he is unstoppable.

Pre-Crisis Superman was basically a deity.

It would be foolish for Superman to go and trade punches with Jugs when he can simply fly to the Andromeda galaxy and blow the entire milky way away.

And if that makes him 'weak' I'd say his 'weakness' is better than Juggernaut's 'strength.'

Um I think you guys ar forgetting just how crazy Juggs was back in the day. He came up with crazy stuff to beat everyone as well Exploding Magic Gobules magic concussive force blasts. Oh by the way wasn't PC Supes very effected by magic. Classic Juggs was a beast that was unstopppable unhurtable and did crazy stuff with magic all the time.

Superman is over written they have to keep making different Supermans Pre Crisis Superman Kingdom Come Superman Sundipped Superman Superman Prime Superman 1million I mean come on how many do there have to be? Why do they have to keep coming up with so many Superman. I mean you have Cyborg Superman Bizarro Superboy Supergirl Steel Eradicator. Even the Kyptonian Kyrpto give me a break.

They aren't different versions. Kingdom Come Superman, Sundipped Superman and Superman Prime are all the same damn person. Superman 1 Million is basically Pre-Crisis level power without the BS like Super Suction or Super Weaving.

All the others are completely different characters who behave nothing like Kal.

Originally posted by golem370
Superman is over written they have to keep making different Supermans Pre Crisis Superman Kingdom Come Superman Sundipped Superman Superman Prime Superman 1million I mean come on how many do there have to be? Why do they have to keep coming up with so many Superman. I mean you have Cyborg Superman Bizarro Superboy Supergirl Steel Eradicator. Even the Kyptonian Kyrpto give me a break. Well, before the crisis, there was a Superman in several different universes that all had their own comic. The Crisis brought DC into a constant continuum, and there was one. A few of those Superman are elseworlds.
That would be like, counting 100 different Wolverines.
Age of Apocalypse Wolverine.
King Thor era Wolverine.
Current Wolverine.
And I'm sure there's ten thousand different elseworlds Wolverines.

Most of those are basiccaly the same the superman just in different time periods. They change his powers so he is better suited to fit with the new set of superheroes.

I don't think the arguement is about the dimensions of Juggernaut. It's moreso that pre-crisis was insane. Superman would counteract everything by vibrating or running around it really fast. Lex Luthor made a time gun out of friggen cans of orange juice and a flashlight.

Juggernaut is not going to run after he going to wait out Superman and when he flys in nail him with his hardest punch and kill Superman because he is weak to Magic attacks. Or he will sit there and let Superman try and break his force Field.

Originally posted by golem370
Superman is over written they have to keep making different Supermans Pre Crisis Superman Kingdom Come Superman Sundipped Superman Superman Prime Superman 1million I mean come on how many do there have to be? Why do they have to keep coming up with so many Superman. I mean you have Cyborg Superman Bizarro Superboy Supergirl Steel Eradicator. Even the Kyptonian Kyrpto give me a break.

Wow .....that's a Red Herring. Perfectly irrelevant and meant to divert attention from the main topic.
So what if there are several variants of Superman ......and by the way they all have their place (and you know this).
By the way .....Marvel actually has more ineptly created characters, but I digress.

Originally posted by golem370
Juggernaut is not going to run after he going to wait out Superman and when he flys in nail him with his hardest punch and kill Superman because he is weak to Magic attacks. Or he will sit there and let Superman try and break his force Field.

LOL.
Pre-Crisis Superman is not going to try and punch Juggernaut.
Why?
Using the Israeli-Palestinian analogy, that would be like the jet pilots in the IAF getting out of their airplanes, walking up to the West Bank, and engaging Palestinian stone throwers with stones.
Would never happen! The Israelis are too smart to engage the Palestinians at their own game.
If a fracas was to break out the Israelis would make use of their technological advantage.

Same thing here .....why would Pre-Crisis Superman bother to trade blows with Juggernaut when there are far easier ways of getting rid of him?
Goodness ....Superman doesn't even have to be in Pluto to get rid of Juggernaut (or at least end the fight). He could be well beyond our solar system and still ahve the same effect.

Juggernaut on the other hand still has to get up close and punch his foe.
Too one-dimensional.

Why do you prefer using the Israel-Palestine theory all the time ??
I prefer the "Wolverine can kill Thanos theory !!!"

PreCrisis Superman, easily.

*sighs*

Superman at Super-speed builds a psychic mind-purifying machine which totally erases all villainous thoughts from Juggs mind - winning the day without a single casualty!

Yeah, Pre-Crisis Superman stories were as mad as Golden Age Namor stories...

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/6518/crazynamor17jd.th.gif
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/8014/crazynamor29ru.th.gif
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/8250/crazynamor33wq.th.gif
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/8107/crazynamor43eo.th.gif

Yep, he nearly killed the whole human civilization. And that was just a tip of the ice-berg...instead of "IMPERIOUS REX!", he used to say "YIPPEE!"...and...oh God, it's too much for my violated mind.

His power levels fluctuated crazily too...he was able to survive being thrown to earth with faster-then-light speeds, but in the next issue, a blizzard nearly killed him...

Originally posted by Wild Cowboy
Why do you prefer using the Israel-Palestine theory all the time ??
I prefer the "Wolverine can kill Thanos theory !!!"

LOL.
Yep, so do I.
However whenever I mention Wolverine there is always a fanboy (one in particular) who will come by and start spewing forth inanities on Wolverine's alleged 'powers.'
Powers that basically make him able to beat nearly anyone, when in truth he is nothing more than a short runt with a sour temper and a set of powers that in truth shouldn't have gotten him admitted into the X-men, and would most certainly get him laughed out of the JLA (or even the Teen Titans for that matter).

Originally posted by spetznaz
Pre-Crisis Superman.
I love Classic Juggernaut, but he is for naught against a being that can simply fly to the other side of the planet, and push the entire orb into the center of a blackhole. Would that kill Class. Jugs ....maybe not.
But it would surely end the fight pronto.

Pre-C Superman wins.

And Classic Juggernaut is rather out of his league here. Not because he is weak or anything, but primarily because he is simply too one-dimensional against a being who is simply exceedingly varied in terms of powers and capabilities. Especially the levels Superman was at during the Pre-Crisis era.
To be truly honest this wouldn't even be a fight.

Yeah I saw Superboy drag 13 planets across space.

Can't believe so many people are knocking Jugs again he can win this. First off Juggs is obviously more durable just as strong if not the potential to be stronger. Classic Juggs also did some crazy things grow to 100 feet tall shrink things. Launch barrages of magic exploding gobules. and he could shoot magic force bolts and one of Pre-C Supes' biggest weaknesses was Magic. Plus his force field can also slow down oppents or objects moving at him.

lol this is funny

Supes wins easily

Originally posted by newjak86
Can't believe so many people are knocking Jugs again he can win this. First off Juggs is obviously more durable just as strong if not the potential to be stronger. Classic Juggs also did some crazy things grow to 100 feet tall shrink things. Launch barrages of magic exploding gobules. and he could shoot magic force bolts and one of Pre-C Supes' biggest weaknesses was Magic. Plus his force field can also slow down oppents or objects moving at him.
Superman would rub his hands at faster than light speeds creating a torrent that sucks Juggernaut into another dimension.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Superman would rub his hands at faster than light speeds creating a torrent that sucks Juggernaut into another dimension. I know what you mean but don't under estimate Juggs when it comes to beating a hero down its what he did in his day. Come up with something abusd and beat them while taking there best. Just look at poor Thor.

At invisible Super-speed, Superman grabs Juggernaut and throws him into another dimension.....

... then seals it off so he never returns....

Actually this is how this fight would go.
Superman flys in and punches Juggernaut but seeing that he is uneffected by the Punch Superman decides to cut loose. He begins to use is super thinking power and comes up with an idea. He will fly around world so fast using its gravity as an influx he will rocket around until he gathers enough energy to create a wormhole then he will toss Juggernaut through it.
Juggernaut this fool he doesn't realize I've been training with my powers I have now learned how to contol the kinteic energy around people. He then flash freezes supes befre he gets his momentum up enough.
Superman well this is knew but I have another up my sleeve. I don't have to use the Kinteic energy around me just the energy inside me. He begans to vibrate with eough force to shake the heavens after he has summoned enough energy he launchs a super heat vision blast which can destroy a univerese but its concetrated so it won't destroy the Earth.
Juggernaut gets rocked by the blast it doesn't faze him but it was enough to let go of his focus and now Superman is free. Superman decides not to take any chances he will the rest of his new energy from vibration to fly faster than light and catch Juggernaut by surprise. He will throw him into space so he will never return.
Juggernaut though has another surprise he tells Superman that by now he has his presonal force field up and slowly all his forward momentum is being cut off he slowing down and that his efforts are useless. Suprman doesn't care he keeps flying through it but now he is at a snails place. By the time he gets to Cain he already has his fist cocked back waiting for Superman. Juggernaut lets loose a punch that sends Superman flying backwards.
Now is the time Juggernaut would normally loose somehow. It would probably be like this Superman hurt his head buzzing but still not KOed looks up to Juggernaut coming for him he can barely move. Then he realizes his long lost power of teleportation. He unleashes heat vision bouncing it off the particales in the air. It refelcts into a large sphere around Cain then Superman changes the requency and intensity of the beams so they can move matter and Cain is now on the moon.

PRECRISIS SUPERMAN ? which one is that ?

Originally posted by cybermaster
PRECRISIS SUPERMAN ? which one is that ? The one that invented new super powers on the fly like Super Basket weaving.

Originally posted by newjak86
The one that invented new super powers on the fly like Super Basket weaving. cool

cybermaster - pre-crisis Superman is Superman before the series of comics called Crisis on Infinite Earths.

It's the same Superman, he was just massively more powerful than current Superman.

i vote for juggernaut out of my extreme devotion and the only proof i have is... ah my dog ate it.

Superman wins. Current or pre-crisis.
Even if he has a hard time hurting Juggernaut,
all he has to do is:

a) pick him up by ankle
b) fly to space
c) throw to sun
d) play fetch with Krypto
e) go to dinner with Lois

Originally posted by newjak86
Actually this is how this fight would go.
Superman flys in and punches Juggernaut but seeing that he is uneffected by the Punch Superman decides to cut loose. He begins to use is super thinking power and comes up with an idea. He will fly around world so fast using its gravity as an influx he will rocket around until he gathers enough energy to create a wormhole then he will toss Juggernaut through it.
Juggernaut this fool he doesn't realize I've been training with my powers I have now learned how to contol the kinteic energy around people. He then flash freezes supes befre he gets his momentum up enough.
Superman well this is knew but I have another up my sleeve. I don't have to use the Kinteic energy around me just the energy inside me. He begans to vibrate with eough force to shake the heavens after he has summoned enough energy he launchs a super heat vision blast which can destroy a univerese but its concetrated so it won't destroy the Earth.
Juggernaut gets rocked by the blast it doesn't faze him but it was enough to let go of his focus and now Superman is free. Superman decides not to take any chances he will the rest of his new energy from vibration to fly faster than light and catch Juggernaut by surprise. He will throw him into space so he will never return.
Juggernaut though has another surprise he tells Superman that by now he has his presonal force field up and slowly all his forward momentum is being cut off he slowing down and that his efforts are useless. Suprman doesn't care he keeps flying through it but now he is at a snails place. By the time he gets to Cain he already has his fist cocked back waiting for Superman. Juggernaut lets loose a punch that sends Superman flying backwards.
Now is the time Juggernaut would normally loose somehow. It would probably be like this Superman hurt his head buzzing but still not KOed looks up to Juggernaut coming for him he can barely move. Then he realizes his long lost power of teleportation. He unleashes heat vision bouncing it off the particales in the air. It refelcts into a large sphere around Cain then Superman changes the requency and intensity of the beams so they can move matter and Cain is now on the moon.

To put anyone against Pre-Crisis Superman is just plain wrong. As much as I like Juggernaut, he's outclassed in every way possible. And if he did have the edge in a certain area, PC Supes would come up with a new power and counteract it, while being a dick about it. Like I said, outclassed.

Originally posted by golem370
Juggernaut is not going to run after he going to wait out Superman and when he flys in nail him with his hardest punch and kill Superman because he is weak to Magic attacks. Or he will sit there and let Superman try and break his force Field.


God what a freakin Fanboy First thing what the hell is Classic Juggernaut gonna do to Pre Crisis Superman? When Current Superman can already beat him down no problem Pre Crisis would murder him.