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Dose this X-men team have any chance of beating the JLA in a tEam fight..What do you thing..Could you come up with a way to win with this X-men team vs the JLA.



Lets do this for this fight: Lets say that Por.X is also working with the X-men via Mental link to help his X-men from somewhere unknown..helping them with anykind of field combat and intrefarence he can run on the JLA team.


X-men have 30 mins of prep.
JLA have 10 mins of perp.


The X-Men :
Magneto
Classic Juggernaut
Cable
Colosus
Emma Frost
Ice Man
Wolverine
Jean Grey

vs

The JLA :
Green Lantern,Kyle
Superman
Wonder Woman
Manhunter
Flash
Aquaman
Batman
Green Arrow

Who wins..No prep

Unless Jean Grey is Phoenix, then no.

Originally posted by Draco69
Unless Jean Grey is Phoenix, then no.

why they need pheonix for wolverine is their.

JLA is packed with super powered heroes

They win easily Mag , and Jugs are the only problem

Originally posted by kgkg
JLA is packed with super powered heroes

They win easily Mag , and Jugs are the only problem

wolverine buddy.......

Bah! Batman's aura is CLEARLY stronger than Wolverine's jobber aura.

Originally posted by Draco69
Bah! Batman's aura is CLEARLY stronger than Wolverine's jobber aura.

since when..................

Originally posted by waterboy
Dose this X-men team have any chance of beating the JLA in a tEam fight..What do you thing..Could you come up with a way to win with this X-men team vs the JLA.



Lets do this for this fight: Lets say that Por.X is also working with the X-men via Mental link to help his X-men from somewhere unknown..helping them with anykind of field combat and intrefarence he can run on the JLA team.


X-men have 30 mins of prep.
JLA have 10 mins of perp.


The X-Men :
Magneto
Classic Juggernaut
Cable
Colosus
Emma Frost
Ice Man
Wolverine
Jean Grey

vs

The JLA :
Green Lantern,Kyle
Superman
Wonder Woman
Manhunter
Flash
Aquaman
Batman
Green Arrow

Who wins..No prep

You had to include Jean didn't you !

Do NOT include Jean in any X-Men threads people!

No-one sees her as Jean anymore. Give it five mins and someone'll come in saying 'Jean and the Phoenix are one, blah blah blah' and so forth.

Without her being Phoenix, the XMen are screwed lol.

This could be done.....expecialy if this was the X-mens last stand. The telepaths are ungodly. Jean, non-pheonix but in her prime? Still scary...Cable.....scary, Emma.....manipulatively scary...Iceman if he has his number one game on is a heavy hitter...or at the very least one hell of a distraction. Then you add in Magneto? Ughhh.....force of nature. Then Wolverine and Juggs....that would be one hell of a fastball special. Juggs and Pter would just take turns throwing him at things....and in the fact Magneto could direct him back to a thrower....you have a very effective missle weapon. Seriously.....this is one tough X-Team....if they had Cyclops, to help call the shots....it'd be really mean. Even so.....X-men take this 7/10.

Not likely. Flash gives the JLA the speedforce. Faster than lightspeed blitzs from several Superman-level characters. Infinite Mass punches glore. Or Kyle just uses his ring to turn off the mutant gene.

Manhunter could take out Colosus Emma Frost Ice Man Wolverine Jean Grey and Cable in a matter of seconds unless its godly Cable and Phoenix. then they put Juggernaut in a dimensional rift using GL and then they gang on Magneto.

Think of it as team based, also if the X-men are on the brink.....I belive btween Jean (keep in mind without the Pheonix she is still the second most powerfull telipath after Xavier) and Cable manhunter would have serious trouble. Mags could just kill anyone with Iron in thier blood....remember...last stand.....they wouldn't even be slightly holding back. I think the X-men are greatly underated on these boards...just think about the powers and how they could be used togeather.

i just want to see magneto flinging collossus at mach 10 straight in to superman's gut. now THAT is a fastball special.

Originally posted by XerxesLogan
Think of it as team based, also if the X-men are on the brink.....I belive btween Jean (keep in mind without the Pheonix she is still the second most powerfull telipath after Xavier) and Cable manhunter would have serious trouble. Mags could just kill anyone with Iron in thier blood....remember...last stand.....they wouldn't even be slightly holding back. I think the X-men are greatly underated on these boards...just think about the powers and how they could be used togeather.

Yeah. But you're failing to implement A) The Flash who can drain all their kinetic energy rendering them statues. Or more specifically Green Lantern who can render them all powerless with a thought.

Green Lantern: Ring?

Supercomputer: Yes, Mr. Rayner?

GL: Turn off their powers.

Originally posted by hoorayforpeepee
i just want to see magneto flinging collossus at mach 10 straight in to superman's gut. now THAT is a fastball special.

He's had worse !

Originally posted by Fishy 500
You had to include Jean didn't you ! the force never dies

Originally posted by Draco69
Not likely. Flash gives the JLA the speedforce. Faster than lightspeed blitzs from several Superman-level characters. Infinite Mass punches glore. Or Kyle just uses his ring to turn off the mutant gene.

AFAIK Wally can't "give" the speedforce, only "take". Given that, he doesn't even have to give anyone the speedforce. One lightspeed punch from a regular human aka wally - one punch from Superman according to Wonder Woman. It can go either way. I can think of the following scenarios.

X-men plan:
- Emma instantly takes over Flash's mind. Now tell me how him manipulating his metabolism can stop the mind control.
- Prof X and Jean keep Manhunter and Aquaman in check just long enough for Emma to direct Flash at them. They're now fighting Prof X, Jean telepathically and Flash physically.
- Cable keeps Green Arrow under constant fire
- Iceman is basically unbeatable, since he just reconstruct instantly from vapor. His task is to help flash against Manhunter and Aquaman.
With the two out of the game, it's like this:

Jean
Prof. X
Emma
Flash (being controlled by Emma)
Colossus
Wolverine
Magneto
Cable
Classic Juggernaut

vs.

Green Lantern,Kyle
Superman
Wonder Woman
Batman
Green Arrow

Emma, Jean and Prof X start wreaking havoc mentally, turning JLA-er against JLA-er, while the physical guys attack as best as they can. I personally think if this scenario worked, the X-men could win.


But i doubt it would work.


It's all a matter of who makes the first move + taking over Flash. The fact that the x-men have 3 top notch telepaths (even though the JLA has two strong ones as well) i think is their only advantage in this fight.

Flash will react faster then Emma...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Flash will react faster then Emma...

That's nice. Think he can react faster than Emma, Jean and Prof X all together? Cause i doubt he can take them all out before he's mind-controlled. Especially given the fact that it takes him a while to build up momentum.

MM is vastly better than Xavier as a telepath. he could easily put tp shields on all his teammates and fight X and Jean at the same time add AM to the equation and its overkill. Flash can give the speed force to people and he can take away speed. and annihilate all the X-men in a fraction of a second. same for many of the JLA. They have just too many more powerful and numerous options.

Originally posted by Dark Urizen
AFAIK Wally can't "give" the speedforce, only "take". Given that, he doesn't even have to give anyone the speedforce. One lightspeed punch from a regular human aka wally - one punch from Superman according to Wonder Woman. It can go either way. I can think of the following scenarios.

That's not true. There have been various occasions where Flash has "lent" his speed to his teammates. Most infamously during the Adam Strange storyline.

X-men plan:
- Emma instantly takes over Flash's mind. Now tell me how him manipulating his metabolism can stop the mind control.
- Prof X and Jean keep Manhunter and Aquaman in check just long enough for Emma to direct Flash at them. They're now fighting Prof X, Jean telepathically and Flash physically.
- Cable keeps Green Arrow under constant fire
- Iceman is basically unbeatable, since he just reconstruct instantly from vapor. His task is to help flash against Manhunter and Aquaman.
With the two out of the game, it's like this:

Originally posted by Dark Urizen


JLA Plan (they do have ten minutes of prep)

-Martian Manhunter and Green Lantern use their powers to render everyone completely invulnerable to psi-attacks. If GL can do it against Hector Hammond...
-Flash gives his teammates the Speed Force. Everyone is capable of exceeding light.
-Green Lantern used his prep to identify the mutant genome in the X-Men via prodding from Batman. Using the ring, the mutant genome is deactivated.
-the X-Men suffer a humilating defeat.

Or

-Wonder Woman uses the Godwave prior to the battle
-Green Lantern taps into the Power Battery and transforms into Ion
-Green Lantern supercharges Superman with solar energy making him close prime
-Wonder Woman renders her teammates invisible and telepathcially immune via the Invisible Plane. Green Lantern can do this too.

So many strategies really.

Flash once heard an gunshot a mile away. He turned into his costume, ran all the way there, searched the immense crowd, found the bullet from the back of an police woman and took out the sniper who was far away before anyone realized anything. I can post the scans later, I am not on my comp now...

But yeah, he can react faster then X, Jean and Emma.

Did anybody read JLA vs X-men?

Some funny stuff

Flash can lend speed.
http://img225.echo.cx/img225/6224/flash101220ec.th.jpg

He can also take the entire team into the SF dimension and turn 10 minutes of prep into 2 weeks.

Damn fancy internet mark ups.

http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flash101220ec.jpg

Originally posted by The Ion
Damn fancy internet mark ups.

http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flash101220ec.jpg
Doesn’t really show he can give his speed tho

Just shows whoever he touches can also be as fast as him.

This would make since for ex. when he takes his wife for a ride (she doesn't die because of the force created by using such speeds)

do you have other proof maybe he can do it

Ah, well then, i see my plan defeated. Congrats Draco and Ion

I'm still not convinced of what superherovandal is saying about MM. I need some serious proof.

It's somewhere in the Flash Respect Thread. I'm too lazy to dig it up. If you read the issue in JLA where Flash gives Superman his speed to outrace the Zeta Beam that's a good example

Originally posted by Draco69
It's somewhere in the Flash Respect Thread. I'm too lazy to dig it up. If you read the issue in JLA where Flash gives Superman his speed to outrace the Zeta Beam that's a good example ohh i have seen that

but is that sharing or giving?

Originally posted by kgkg
Doesn’t really show he can give his speed tho

Just shows whoever he touches can also be as fast as him.

This would make since for ex. when he takes his wife for a ride (she doesn't die because of the force created by using such speeds)

do you have other proof maybe he can do it
http://img73.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2132061yf.jpg
http://img73.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2132075uj.jpg

Does it really matter though? If everyone in the JLA holds hands with Wally and just makes a straight line they could bumrush the X-Men to death.

Originally posted by Dark Urizen
That's nice. Think he can react faster than Emma, Jean and Prof X all together? Cause i doubt he can take them all out before he's mind-controlled. Especially given the fact that it takes him a while to build up momentum.


do u even know who flash is?

actually nm he can indeed lend speed

how can i forget this was my fav scan

If it's God like cable and God like iceman and perhaps put nate grey into the mix, perhaps the x-team have a slight chance.

Originally posted by Solidus Snake
do u even know who flash is?



Yes, i do. Do you have a way of explaining how he can find and take out Xavier before he's braindead?

Originally posted by Dark Urizen
Yes, i do. Do you have a way of explaining how he can find and take out Xavier before he's braindead?
Shielded by Kyle of course.

Think of it this way...

If someone pointed a gun at Xavier and pulled the trigger, would he be able to mind-control someone before the bullet reached him?

No.

The Flash is between 500,000 and a million times faster than that bullet.

Flash could land a thousand punches on each telepath before any of the three could think one thought.

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
Think of it this way...

If someone pointed a gun at Xavier and pulled the trigger, would he be able to mind-control someone before the bullet reached him?

No.

The Flash is between 500,000 and a million times faster than that bullet.

Flash could land a thousand punches on each telepath before any of the three could think one thought.



a powerful bullet can travel at 1100 feet per second or 750 miles per hour (approx speed of sound)

flash moves at teh speed of light or

669,600,000 miles per hour vs 750 miles per hour

flash is 892,000 times faster than a bullet

prof x will be IMPed into the sun LOL

flash IMPing a man in a wheelchair

Originally posted by The Ion
Shielded by Kyle of course.

Smartass. I was talking to Mr. Solid reptile or whatever


Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
Think of it this way...

If someone pointed a gun at Xavier and pulled the trigger, would he be able to mind-control someone before the bullet reached him?

No.

The Flash is between 500,000 and a million times faster than that bullet.

Flash could land a thousand punches on each telepath before any of the three could think one thought.



Think of it this way:

Can Flash find a hidden person that can be anywhere on the planet before that person thinks "stop"? Of course, you do realize that as a telepath his thinking is exponentially faster than normal humans. Of course, you do realize that (taking your example into account) he could make the person have a seizure before he pulled the trigger .

FYI:
bullet speed = 1.500 mph

1.500 x 500.000 = 750.000.000 mph

speed of light = 28.800.000 mph

Your "lowest" Flash speed seems to be 26 x lightspeed.

So now Flash at his lowest moves at 26 x lightspeed eh?

Originally posted by Solidus Snake
a powerful bullet can travel at 1100 feet per second or 750 miles per hour (approx speed of sound)

flash moves at teh speed of light or

669,600,000 miles per hour vs 750 miles per hour

flash is 892,000 times faster than a bullet

prof x will be IMPed into the sun LOL

flash IMPing a man in a wheelchair

1500 mph to be more exact.

and the speed you just mentioned is the speed of light IN A VACUUM. Not quite the same

Bullet speed is that much?

I thought it was just around 300-500 mph...it's faster then the speed of sound?

No. Sound is in the 700s.

Yeah, I know the speed of sound, but 1500 MPH is faster then 700.

It's the 1500 I have never heard of.

1500?! Unless it's some new military grade I never heard of....

Theoritically any bullet at that speed should make the area it hits explode.

Flash Feats in the Flash Respect Thread...
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=375451

Originally posted by Dark Urizen
1500 mph to be more exact.

and the speed you just mentioned is the speed of light IN A VACUUM. Not quite the same

the speed force makes him frictionless...similar as being in a vaccumless arena. so the speedforce allows wally lightspeed on earth.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Flash Feats in the Flash Respect Thread...
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=375451

Seen it, read it. Remember i was one of the only three or four people who knew who the turtle is.

And the 1.500 mph speed is the one i found on several essays i used in the past. even if it's 700, then what Zephro was saying was that Flash moves at 13 times the speed of light.

Originally posted by Solidus Snake
the speed force makes him frictionless...similar as being in a vaccumless arena. so the speedforce allows wally lightspeed on earth.

Where was it every stated that the protection given by the speedforce makes it like being in a vacuumless area???
I sincerely doubt it, since he was able to keep the protective aura around him before he even found out about the speedforce, and there was no vacuumless-like mention around. Prove me wrong, and i'll admit to it.

"An impossible thing Flash has ever done, saving the entire population from a nuclear explosion by carrying 1-2 people (532,000 people to be exact) at once sending them 35 miles in and out away from the city (70 miles together) in 0.0001 seconds"

Flash goes with approximately 37240000 miles per 0.0001 seconds...now, I might have miscalculated, but it would be 1862000000 miles per second....about ten times the speed of light.

Tell me if I am wrong...

And that's not including the area of the city which Wally had to comb over countless times to make sure he got everybody. Go into buildings. Cars. Under the bed. In the subways. Closets.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
"An impossible thing Flash has ever done, saving the entire population from a nuclear explosion by carrying 1-2 people (532,000 people to be exact) at once sending them 35 miles in and out away from the city (70 miles together) in 0.0001 seconds"

Flash goes with approximately 37240000 miles per 0.0001 seconds...now, I might have miscalculated, but it would be 1862000000 miles per second....about ten times the speed of light.

Tell me if I am wrong...

You're not wrong (i think).
That feat however has been said to be absolute and immeasurable crap by Flash fans on several comic book boards.

Meh. Flash is a walking plot device. He's done crazier things. Like outrunning death till the literal end of time in which death...er..died.

Taken on account that Flash has travelled through time at least ten times, thats not ridiculous at all.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Yeah, I know the speed of sound, but 1500 MPH is faster then 700.

It's the 1500 I have never heard of.
It's true. There's bullets out there that can go faster than Mach 3.

I'd like to see Neo try and dodge those bullets....

What bullets?

They must be special ones...not your random handgun bullets.

Originally posted by Draco69
I'd like to see Neo try and dodge those bullets....

You don't understant.

He doesn't have to.

Isn't Jean currently Phoenix in the comics?

More like the Phoenix Force. If she can be killed by an electomagnetic pulse, than the JLA are in for an easy victory.

And she seems to be heavily affected by telepathy. GS overhyped the Phoenix.

Can't she simply recreate the universe w/no JLA? I've seen her do this stuff before.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
What bullets?

They must be special ones...not your random handgun bullets.
High caliber rifle bullets and large machine guns. Handgun bullets are around the speed of sound.

I swear Phoenix has ruined Jean Grey on this forum...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
You don't understant.

He doesn't have to.

When the time comes God DC, you're killin me

But yeah, Flash trips and nearly dies now and in a year he's gathering up every single one of his descendants against Blue Cobalt

Originally posted by brainchild81
Can't she simply recreate the universe w/no JLA? I've seen her do this stuff before.

Morrison's Phoenix could. But Marvel did a 180 and said that it never happened. Which is why Scarlet Witch whooped the Phoenix and sent her back to the White Hot Room. Phoenix is no longer part of God but just a cosmic force slightly above herald level.

The editorial team basically ravaged and destroyed Morrison's work on the X-Men. The only thing that survives is Scott and Emma's relationship. But they'll probably destroy that too. We're clearly going back to the convuluted stories of the 90s.

Marvel didn't say that HTC didn't happen. It's a possible future. It obviously happened, because Scott and Emma are running the institute. Regardless, before Jean even went full-fledged Phoenix in Morrison's run, she was still an omega TP/TK: "If I can think it, it's possible."

There's nothing in the handbook to suggest that Phoenix is slightly above herald. And if we're going to go with what these characters "ultimate" abilities are, then the uber abilities of Jean, Cable, and Magneto can't be discarded. Before Morrison's run Jean said "No shields, natural or artificial, can stand against Phoenix." That's proven to be fairly true. She got through Juggs and Mags helmets as Jean.

If Magneto, Jean and Cable formed shield around the X-Team, I doubt very much is going to get through, even if it's Flash and JLA.

"If Magneto, Jean and Cable formed shield around the X-Team, I doubt very much is going to get through, even if it's Flash and JLA."

Yeah, but they can't. Flash has already taken them out in 0.000000001 seconds.

Both teams have prep. If the JLA can have Flash share his speed with them all ahead of time, then the X-Men can surely have shields in place.

Originally posted by Draco69
More like the Phoenix Force. If she can be killed by an electomagnetic pulse, than the JLA are in for an easy victory.

And she seems to be heavily affected by telepathy. GS overhyped the Phoenix. You're overglorifying a plot device. She needed to die because she was needed elsewhere.

You really think that something that could devour a sun would be harmed by an electromagnetic pulse?

Hell do you think any of US would be effected by an electromagnetic pulse?

Sorry, but neither we nor she should be effected by that.

What if Flash vibrates through the shields?

That wouldn't work. The X-Men with prep are a mighty force. But the JLA with prep (even 10 minutes with can be stretched for damn near eternity is just too damn much for the X-Men.

What's even worse? If Green Lantern wanted to, he can summon (or create) more Green Lantern rings for his teammates to wear. Hmm. That Cosmic Rod seems mighty nice. Or maybe a Mother Box or two.

They can get real cheap and just hold up the Medousa Head....

Originally posted by Creshosk
She needed to die because she was needed elsewhere."I need to die to go somewhere." doesn't exactly scream omnipotence....

My money is on the JLA, depending on whose Jean this is.

Originally posted by Draco69
Morrison's Phoenix could. But Marvel did a 180 and said that it never happened. Which is why Scarlet Witch whooped the Phoenix and sent her back to the White Hot Room. Phoenix is no longer part of God but just a cosmic force slightly above herald level. I think you need to go check in on the latest phoenix debates. . . don't worry, No essays as GS hasn't been participating in them. But there's alot of interesting stuff.

You can find it in the "Marvel hiearchy as of dec" thread. . .It's been going for quite a few pages.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
"I need to die to go somewhere." doesn't exactly scream omnipotence.... Who said anything about her being omnipotent?

It still fits that like spectre she's given as much or as little power as she needs to do her job.

Originally posted by Creshosk
You're overglorifying a plot device. She needed to die because she was needed elsewhere.

You really think that something that could devour a sun would be harmed by an electromagnetic pulse?

Hell do you think any of US would be effected by an electromagnetic pulse?

Sorry, but neither we nor she should be effected by that.

Your sig is OK but your avatar is very feminine, are you a girl?

In which case if destroying the JLA isn't priority in the grand scheme of things she will have very little power...

Originally posted by Evil Jam
Your sig is OK but your avatar is very feminine, are you a girl? Oh look, a "new" member.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Oh look, a "new" member.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
In which case if destroying the JLA isn't priority in the grand scheme of things she will have very little power... Probably somewhere between Galactus and celestial(Rachel stalemated Galactus and could have won but was psyched out by what he said.). As we are to take them at the best of their ability it's probably a priority.

Originally posted by Evil Jam
Your sig is OK but your avatar is very feminine, are you a girl? Welcome back.

I'll try to be a bit more mum this time.

I thought people on this forum might know comics

Originally posted by Creshosk
Welcome back.

I'll try to be a bit more mum this time.

Who do you think I am

and really - don't worry I can come on straight away if I want

Originally posted by Draco69
That wouldn't work. The X-Men with prep are a mighty force. But the JLA with prep (even 10 minutes with can be stretched for damn near eternity is just too damn much for the X-Men.

What's even worse? If Green Lantern wanted to, he can summon (or create) more Green Lantern rings for his teammates to wear. Hmm. That Cosmic Rod seems mighty nice. Or maybe a Mother Box or two.

They can get real cheap and just hold up the Medousa Head....

Assuming they could properly use the rings. It would be speculation about if they could or to what extent, but Green Arrow for instance could barely use his entire will power to create an arrow

Originally posted by Creshosk
Welcome back.

I'll try to be a bit more mum this time.

Who do you think I am

and really - don't worry I can come on straight away if I want

thanks for the welcome - peolpel seem friendly here

Originally posted by Dark Urizen
Assuming they could properly use the rings. It would be speculation about if they could or to what extent, but Green Arrow for instance could barely use his entire will power to create an arrow

Actually they HAVE used rings before during a "crisis" with the Manhunters during a Green Lantern/JLA storyline in the late 80s. First mission of Wonder Woman with the JLA too!

I think I'm going to go with the JLA on this one,

Say it's like (9:00 am on a specific day and the batle takes place at 9:10 on that day, thus the 10 minutes of prep.)

Flash can run them back in time and basically have unlimited prep, as each time it gets close to time to battle(9:10 on the specific day) he can run them into the past. and as soon as they are ready. . . well they'll probably be ready and able to take out each and everyone of the X-men. Including phoenix. . .

Originally posted by Creshosk
I think I'm going to go with the JLA on this one,

Say it's like (9:00 am on a specific day and the batle takes place at 9:10 on that day, thus the 10 minutes of prep.)

Flash can run them back in time and basically have unlimited prep, as each time it gets close to time to battle(9:10 on the specific day) he can run them into the past. and as soon as they are ready. . . well they'll probably be ready and able to take out each and everyone of the X-men. Including phoenix. . . Maybe they'll just stab her a few times and trap her in ice... it worked in Endsong...

Originally posted by Draco69
Actually they HAVE used rings before during a "crisis" with the Manhunters during a Green Lantern/JLA storyline in the late 80s. First mission of Wonder Woman with the JLA too!

I'd say "Rebirth" is more "in continuity" than that

Not THE crisis. Just a intergalactic war that required everyone to get involved for some reason.

Superman has used a GL ring more than once. Batman will apparently be using a power ring in GL #9 so thats 3 Lanterns right there.

Originally posted by Draco69
Not THE crisis. Just a intergalactic war that required everyone to get involved for some reason.

Hmmm.......yeah........feeling skeptical......

Originally posted by The Ion
Superman has used a GL ring more than once. Batman will apparently be using a power ring in GL #9 so thats 3 Lanterns right there.

Remember the "who should be able to use a GL ring" thread a while back? I still say what i did then. Batman would be a terrible option IMO, but hey, the writers do as they please right?

I don't think Phoenix' power is like the Spectre's at all. The only time Jean hasn't been able to access as much as she's wanted is because she subconsciously held back and didn't want to give herself in totally. She still remembers what happened last time. And seeing how she has unlimited TP and TK as Jean...Besides, Jean's never died unless she's wanted to.

Don't get me wrong, with all the S*** I talk about J'onn, I still like him and think he has a lot of power. I just think the claims that he is Xavier's equal/superior are kind of far-fetched and mainly made due to them both being the "top" psys of their respective universe, not out of feats, performance, and skill.

Now, Magento IS a threat, IMO if Superman and Flash weren't there he could wreck the rest himself. J'onn, Arthur, Batman, Diana's armor/bracelets and GL's ring are all liabilities with him around.

Now, say what you want but an Emma/Cable or Jean/Cable would both be superior to J'onn and Cain, Iceman and Colossus can keep Superman busy long enough for Magneto, Logan and psys to play clean up.

Teamwork is the ONLY advantage the JLA has here, but if they match up in solo fights, its gonna wind up being Superman vs. like 3-4 people as IMO Superman can beat/stalemate anyone here, but I can't say the same for his team. Any combination of Magneto and another heavy hitter would beat him IMO.

Originally posted by Malo
Don't get me wrong, with all the S*** I talk about J'onn, I still like him and think he has a lot of power. I just think the claims that he is Xavier's equal/superior are kind of far-fetched and mainly made due to them both being the "top" psys of their respective universe, not out of feats, performance, and skill.

Actually, Hector Hammond is the top psy in the DC Universe. And don't Isee why you might consider J'onn not superior to Charles when his feats of psy clearly surpass Charles.

Originally posted by Malo
Now, Magento IS a threat, IMO if Superman and Flash weren't there he could wreck the rest himself. J'onn, Arthur, Batman, Diana's armor/bracelets and GL's ring are all liabilities with him around.

You EXTREMELY underrating Green Lantern. GL regularly faces a magnetic opponent. And the ring never falls off...

You're uninformed about Green Lantern. Green Lantern can just scan the mutants with the ring. And use the ring to turn off their mutant genome. It can do ANYTHING.

Originally posted by Malo
Now, say what you want but an Emma/Cable or Jean/Cable would both be superior to J'onn and Cain, Iceman and Colossus can keep Superman busy long enough for Magneto, Logan and psys to play clean up.

J'onn has several thousand years of experience. Facing countless uber-telepaths. His telepathy is so damned strong he once reduced Despero to fetus. LITERALLY.

Colossus will not keep Superman busy. Heat Vision. He's a metal puddle. His heat vision is as hot as 100 suns. Literally.

You're also underestimating a key element: SPEED. Telepathy and TK rely on SPEED. Several sublight/faster than light opponents is not a good thing for a team mostly comprised of telepaths.


Originally posted by Malo
Teamwork is the ONLY advantage the JLA has here, but if they match up in solo fights,

And SPEED. And an omniscent ring that can create even MORE omniscent rings. And Lansarian technology. And.....

iOriginally posted by Malo
ts gonna wind up being Superman vs. like 3-4 people as IMO Superman can beat/stalemate anyone here, but I can't say the same for his team. Any combination of Magneto and another heavy hitter would beat him IMO.

No offense, but you really need to read up on the JLA. You're generalizing that Superman is the most powerful on the JLA when in actuality he's around number 5.

should really take GL and flash out of this match up. However seening as that both GL and Flash get their buts kicked by charters that they really shouldn't have anykind of problem with (deathstroke). The X-men have a big chance here. If GL and Flash are as stupid in this match up as they were in Identy crisis then they're dead.

okay think of it this way...Batman has a way to take out his friends(as seen in the Tower of Bable) storyline in JLA. As much as I hate to say it...it could probably come up with a way to take down each member of the X-Men by himself

ok Ima work on the basis that the ring cant (at least for this fight) turn off their powers....now, if they all have ten minutes prep, this is the way I see....JLA is the favored lot and I can see them winning a majority of the time...but if X-men played it smart i could see them pulling off a win.....in those ten minutes Mags takes control, telling the telepaths to create mental sheilds for iceman while he himself covers them in one of his magnetic sheilds....cept for iceman...(who happens to be my secret weapon).....iceman has turned into water vapor before the fight, and since no one can see him in this state (not even superman, i mean he literally transforms into water vapor, not some substitute). Fight starts, Flash, who by the way SHOULD always dominate, has been taken out by DS, starts pummeling who ever he sees first....iceman then seeing his friends get beaten he does an omnidirectional flash freeze (stop all molecular motion attacking the very persons molcules not just around them)....to everyone.....thats it....iceman wins the day....

Originally posted by jasofisc
should really take GL and flash out of this match up. However seening as that both GL and Flash get their buts kicked by charters that they really shouldn't have anykind of problem with (deathstroke). The X-men have a big chance here. If GL and Flash are as stupid in this match up as they were in Identy crisis then they're dead.
Match ups on this forum don't take stupid comic book stories into account. Every character fights to the best of their ability. That means you get uber planet warping Kyle and Flash speed blitzing everyone.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
ok Ima work on the basis that the ring cant (at least for this fight) turn off their powers....now, if they all have ten minutes prep, this is the way I see....JLA is the favored lot and I can see them winning a majority of the time...but if X-men played it smart i could see them pulling off a win.....in those ten minutes Mags takes control, telling the telepaths to create mental sheilds for iceman while he himself covers them in one of his magnetic sheilds....cept for iceman...(who happens to be my secret weapon).....iceman has turned into water vapor before the fight, and since no one can see him in this state (not even superman, i mean he literally transforms into water vapor, not some substitute). Fight starts, Flash, who by the way SHOULD always dominate, has been taken out by DS, starts pummeling who ever he sees first....iceman then seeing his friends get beaten he does an omnidirectional flash freeze (stop all molecular motion attacking the very persons molcules not just around them)....to everyone.....thats it....iceman wins the day....
His flash freeze can't penetrate the might auto shield.

I realize that the characters need to operate to the best of their ability, I was just trying to make a case for the x-men if the JLA have flash and green lantern, because with them at their best of their ability the x-men are dead. From pure stats current GL (isn't he like sky father level right now or above) and flash could take JLA and x-men by themselves

Dammnit. Stop putting Flash in with the JLA. No X-men team can come ANYWHERE NEAR to stopping Flash.

Flash could literally kill them all, except for Juggernaut, Colossus, and Iceman before the rest knew what happened. The others are taken care of by the rest of the JLA, though Juggernaut will be the only one standing. He loses by default cuz he wouldn't be able to ever touch any of the JLA, since they've all been blessed with super speed.

If Pheonix is there, then the X-men win. Otherwise, Flash basically wins for the JLA.

remember one thing..this is a last stand battle. The only person on the JLA with the chutzpah to kill anyone will be WW, while Mags, Wolvie, Juggy, and to a lesser extant, Iceman and Colossus are all killers time and again

Being a killer's not very useful when you're victim is invulnerable.

X-men win. But its close only due to manhunter and not flash

X-men wins this battle. They have jean/phoenix plus Professor x giving them battle plans. They also have more prep time to hook up the danger room, if they are fighting there.

no phoenix in Xmen battles its not fair. At least with the flash there is a small chance that he could lose. and MM could just block telepathy from Jean Grey, Cable , And Emma Frost making them inert to the battle. and take out Ice Man and Juggernaut 90% of the JLA could take out most of the X-men in this line up by themselves.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Dammnit. Stop putting Flash in with the JLA. No X-men team can come ANYWHERE NEAR to stopping Flash.

Flash could literally kill them all, except for Juggernaut, Colossus, and Iceman before the rest knew what happened. The others are taken care of by the rest of the JLA, though Juggernaut will be the only one standing. He loses by default cuz he wouldn't be able to ever touch any of the JLA, since they've all been blessed with super speed.

If Pheonix is there, then the X-men win. Otherwise, Flash basically wins for the JLA.


Icemans gonna be taken out? if he himself can take out MM while being mentally protected, no one else can touch him in his water vapor form.....no one will know where he went...or...hehehe he takes out MM lets Superman "incinerate" him while he actually becomes wateer vapor so everyone thinks he's dead then takes them all out...

God I love when people make threads even I can post in............JLA wins................giving them prep only seals the deal...........why are people arguing over the flash..........there are three other people who are up there and can and will do the same thing...........x-men lose regardless

Im not argueing that the JLA doest win the majority of the time....im just trying to think of ways that the X-men COULD win...every now and then....

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Icemans gonna be taken out? if he himself can take out MM while being mentally protected, no one else can touch him in his water vapor form.....no one will know where he went...or...hehehe he takes out MM lets Superman "incinerate" him while he actually becomes wateer vapor so everyone thinks he's dead then takes them all out...

Can't Flash just run around him really fast and make an whirlwind that puts him in the space?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Can't Flash just run around him really fast and make an whirlwind that puts him in the space?

I agree he COULD (but then theres also speculation as to wheather iceman couls just "teleport" out of the immediate vicinity through water vapor or just inhabit flash himself)....if he coud see him....flash or anyone else for that matter wouldnt know that iceman was still alive.... I agree that there are JLA members that could beat him (flash, GL, MM) but if he takes out the telepath and then lets someone "beat" him, he has a tactical advantage that
1) he cant really be beaten physically
2) he can be water vapor and more so than even the Invisible women be undetected and invisible
3) have complete control over moleculer motion....he is basically the opposite of the flash in that regard, that while the flash basically speeds things up directly related to him and anything touching him, Iceman can slow things down anywhere around him, and no one has really determined a distance to how far his control can cover.....
4) can inhabit the bodies of and destroy from the inside out (if he doesnt just do a big "flash freeze" ) any of the JLA members since they also have water in them....(not so sure about john body makeup tho, but he needs to be taken out first for any of this to work in the first place)

If this was just a random fight I'd give it to the JLA 8-9/10 but the key is prep time.All the x-men do is mind sheild Iceman and he instanly takes out everyone except maybe the Flash MM or supes(MM and supes because I'm not to sure about the pysiology and flash because he can't be locked onto) and then the rest go down when they get into his absolute zero zone and either are stopped dead in their tracks(supes and MM) or are slowed down to a level where he can keep up with the flash.Without telepathy they can't hurt Iceman. With prep x-men 8/10

Flash and Iceman are the deciding factors. If you remove one, the team of the other will win.

Originally posted by waterboy


The X-Men :
Magneto
Classic Juggernaut
Cable
Colosus
Emma Frost
Ice Man
Wolverine
Jean Grey

vs

The JLA :
Green Lantern,Kyle
Superman
Wonder Woman
Manhunter
Flash
Aquaman
Batman
Green Arrow

Who wins..No prep

A lot of those people on X-Men have shields...that will increase their durability..

Magneto has a shield
Juggs has a shield, when its up he's resitant to physical harm.
Cable has an impenetrable shield
Colossus provided he doesn't get knocked out is very durable
Emma Frost is diamond hard, and can equally use TP to protect all the members
Jean Grey can also use TP to shield all the members
Ice Man cannot be destroyed
Well, Logan is pretty much dead.

This is a very formidable X squad.

Not to mention the Prof working from Cerebro screwing with everyones minds.

I say it could go 50/50

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
A lot of those people on X-Men have shields...that will increase their durability..

Magneto has a shield
Juggs has a shield, when its up he's resitant to physical harm.
Cable has an impenetrable shield
Colossus provided he doesn't get knocked out is very durable
Emma Frost is diamond hard, and can equally use TP to protect all the members
Jean Grey can also use TP to shield all the members
Ice Man cannot be destroyed
Well, Logan is pretty much dead.

This is a very formidable X squad.

Not to mention the Prof working from Cerebro screwing with everyones minds.

I say it could go 50/50

*sigh*

Flash lends speed to his teammates making them all Flashes. Prep-time is extended to relative YEARS because they're thinking so damn fast. Green Lantern uses his ring to analyze the mutants and finds a way to neutralize their powers with his ring by turning of their mutant genome. Green Lantern than uses his ring to funnel insane amounts of solar energy into Superman, making him near Prime-level. Wonder Woman has the Invisible Plane make them all invisible in every sense of the word making them not only invisible to sight, but to energy scans, telepathy and any other means. Wonder Woman also makes the Invisible Plane transform into the Wonder Dome, a flying castle of destruction. She also takes out the Medousa Head. Green Lantern uses his ring to create even more rings for his teammates.

CURBSTOMP.

Telepathy can't be used to protect one physically...telekinesis can.

Yeak TK, my bad.

Originally posted by Draco69
*sigh*

Flash lends speed to his teammates making them all Flashes. Prep-time is extended to relative YEARS because they're thinking so damn fast. Green Lantern uses his ring to analyze the mutants and finds a way to neutralize their powers with his ring by turning of their mutant genome. Green Lantern than uses his ring to funnel insane amounts of solar energy into Superman, making him near Prime-level. Wonder Woman has the Invisible Plane make them all invisible in every sense of the word making them not only invisible to sight, but to energy scans, telepathy and any other means. Wonder Woman also makes the Invisible Plane transform into the Wonder Dome, a flying castle of destruction. She also takes out the Medousa Head. Green Lantern uses his ring to create even more rings for his teammates.

CURBSTOMP.

Xavier psychically links his mind, jeans mind, cable's mind and emma's mind with cerebro and mind wipes the entire JLA. end of.

Im thinking GL shouldnt take their mutation away...its not a disease, but how their DNA is formulated. No one would be able to know Iceman was mist...thats the ONLY defense I can even think of, JLA should take this though

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Im thinking GL shouldnt take their mutation away...its not a disease, but how their DNA is formulated. No one would be able to know Iceman was mist...thats the ONLY defense I can even think of, JLA should take this though

Neither should a power nullifier....or any other countless techs that have made mutants powerless.

Green Lantern can just scan their DNA code with his ring. Find the genome that makes mutants mutants. And use the A.I. to build something capable of rendering them powerless.

They would know Iceman is mist because the scanning of Iceman would give them all they need to know of him.

Not to mention Superman's microscopic vision will see him or Diana's Eyes of Pallas.


GL can just compress the mist with his ring into a green bubble and just whip into the Sun.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
Xavier psychically links his mind, jeans mind, cable's mind and emma's mind with cerebro and mind wipes the entire JLA. end of.

Before Flash can take them out? Not a chance.

First of, Superman would not be able see him, how can he tell the difference between water vapor....and water vapor already in the air?

and whats the thing that Diana has?

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
Xavier psychically links his mind, jeans mind, cable's mind and emma's mind with cerebro and mind wipes the entire JLA. end of.

Speedblitz. Before the electrical signal leaves the friggin neuron, Flash would have already ripped him to pieces.

they have 30 minutes prep....they wouldn't no what happened. X-Men win via mind wipe.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
First of, Superman would not be able see him, how can he tell the difference between water vapor....and water vapor already in the air?

Excess water vapor. Superman's smart. There's only so much of water vapor in the air for certain temperatures.

Not to mention Iceman would be probably clump his water molecules together in order to stay coherent.

I woundn't wanna be in six places at once...

the psychics are fighting from a distance..and xavier is from an undisclosed location. they win

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
they have 30 minutes prep....they wouldn't no what happened. X-Men win via mind wipe.

JLA has literally 100 years of prep. Why? Flash lends speed. The JLA aret thinking and planning at faster than lightspeeds. Ten minutes will seem like a relative millenia.

look at this page

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=382722&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=3

shows Iceman is awesome and can become a part of "everything"

and since this is canon....whatever Im done argueing, Im just saying its closer than you guys say....JLA DOES win, just not 10/10

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
the psychics are fighting from a distance..and xavier is from an undisclosed location. they win

No they don't. Honey, you're being stubbon.

Distance doesn't matter. Flash can run at ludicrous speeds. In issue, he evacuated an ENTIRE city of 200,00 people and moved them to an area three miles away. He had to go back and forth and could only carry at most two people. He did all this in only .000000001 seconds. Thought isn't nearly the fast.

Originally posted by Draco69
Excess water vapor. Superman's smart. There's only so much of water vapor in the air for certain temperatures.

Not to mention Iceman would be probably clump his water molecules together in order to stay coherent.

I woundn't wanna be in six places at once...

ehs had a conversion with three people and two were in another place, and jugs was next to him....he can split himself up......

Originally posted by Blair Wind
and whats the thing that Diana has?

What thing? Diana has alot of things. She has so many damn things she has an entire mansion to hold it...

she can see auras..i think thats what he means. cant she?

eyes of palla....

yeah

Can't Iceman "teleport" and "possess" others?

Originally posted by Blair Wind
eyes of palla....

WW blinded herself awhile ago. Thus Athena bonded her vision with hers (Gray Eyed PALLAS is her old name).

This gave her the vision of a near-omnipotent god. She can see things in a God's view. She looks at you and knows everything about you. She can see things before they happen. She has the vision of goddess. And that goddess can "see" just about anything.

It's basically semi-cosmic awareness.

Originally posted by coosie
Can't Iceman "teleport" and "possess" others?

Yep. Not now I think. He's still being written poorly. And he's gotten really ugly.

the only thing he lost his is second mutation....he still has the rest of his powers

Originally posted by Blair Wind
the only thing he lost his is second mutation....he still has the rest of his powers

He has his powers but he's still firing icebeams and sliding around ice slides. Poor guy was only being written to full potential (not EVEN) for only a couple issues.

He still has a long way to go. He certainly has the potential. But he's not even close being full potential.

you should read my respect thread...

Originally posted by Blair Wind
you should read my respect thread...

I have but his best feats are on an alternate dimension. The things he's capable of is unimaginable but he's not even past square 3 or 4. He can dump an ocean on his foes or suck oxygen out of the air but dumbass writers still have him surfing around ice slides and firing ice beams.

not an alternate dimension, Xmen forever is canon.....

Originally posted by Blair Wind
not an alternate dimension, Xmen forever is canon.....

An alternate FUTURE. When Iceman came back to his real time and tried to fight Prosh he still wasn't developed enough to use his powers to the full potential. In fact when he destroyed Prosh's ship, he was exhausted.

He's not there yet. But in the future...

JLA TRIUMPHS....NO PHOENIX, NO COMPETION

Originally posted by Draco69
An alternate FUTURE. When Iceman came back to his real time and tried to fight Prosh he still wasn't developed enough to use his powers to the full potential. In fact when he destroyed Prosh's ship, he was exhausted.

He's not there yet. But in the future...



Id say freezing the ship that was that size (when finishing prosh), becoming part of everything that IS the ship and freezing it (after he got back) shows just how powerful he is NOW (specially freezing the strangers heat beams).....and I think the size of the ship was said to be too big for a human to actually see or comprehend or something like it was bigger than any human thought possible but Im not sure on that....

Superman has soul vision now. He would be able to tell the difference between normal water vapor and Iceman as water vapor by looking at his soul.

eh he used it once and it was on superboy.....its pis.....

No. More like it's the stupidest upgrade I've ever heard. "Soul-vision"?! I can understand giving to Zauriel or Nightcrawler but Superman?!