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Discuss.

Pro- legal validity and related privileges.

Pro- allowing a couple to express their love (if that sort of thing might interest them).

Con- marriage.

Homosexual men and women also fall in love. And once they find the man or women of their dreams they also desire to enter into life-long unions. Love and commitment between same-sex couples is the same as heterosexual couples and therefore should reap the same benefits.

(Belgium became the second country in the world to allow gay and lesbian couples to marry.)

Good. More countries should follow.

Alot of Europe is legalizing gay marriage. I don't think Italy has yet.

Before, same-sex marriages were recognized nationwide in four countries: Belgium, Canada, the Netherlands, Spain and also in the state of Massachusetts. South Africa is to follow or has already followed, I' m unsure about it.

Poland won't. With present gov for sure

I can't wait to see what will China do with this issue.

Originally posted by WindDancer
I can't wait to see what will China do with this issue. China?????????? Never!

China won't even legalize free speech let alone gay marriage.

Originally posted by WindDancer
I can't wait to see what will China do with this issue.

Maybe turkey will do it! I heard that homosexuality is illegal there !

China would be smart to legalize gay marriage, it might help with their population problem.

As for the UK, it's a good thing, obviously. America will too...just as soon as it pulls that crucifix out of its collective ass.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
China would be smart to legalize gay marriage, it might help with their population problem.

As for the UK, it's a good thing, obviously. America will too...just as soon as it pulls that crucifix out of its collective ass.

From where do you perceive the most good emanating?

Possibility or perception?

The US is too Christian......It's always fought in the courts.....

Just a technicality, but same-sex civil partnerships were legalized, not marriages.

Thats a big difference, when it comes to religion anyway.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
From where do you perceive the most good emanating?

Possibility or perception?

I percieve nothing. It's good on many levels.

It's good for human equality. That is obvious. Perception will come as a result of it becoming normal, and in time...there will no longer exist a concept of "gay rights".

Plus, as soon as gays start getting married, they can start getting divorced...and then none of us will have to listen to a mainstream media outlet mention the term "gay marriage".

As I have always said, I have a huge issue with teh term "gay rights". It only serves to further seperate homosexuals from the rest of society. The whole "seperate but equal" concept.

Both then.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Both then.

Yes.

IN Canada GAYS get married legally. Every province expect Alberta (our version of the deep south) has accepted it. There was some protests but at least we were able to talk about it and vote about unlike down south its bad to even consider it.

It's a pity it isn't marriage, in my opinion.

Related to Raz's point. It's not actually marriage if it can't be called marriage.

same sex marriages pose some issuses with tax laws, inheritance laws and other things.......thats one of the big reasons it is slowed down in america.

Originally posted by soleran30
same sex marriages pose some issuses with tax laws, inheritance laws and other things.......thats one of the big reasons it is slowed down in america.


how does it pose any problem with the things you've listed?

Thats cool. i totally understand the no church thing though. thats like a funeral in a catholic church for a suicide

Originally posted by Ronny
Thats cool. i totally understand the no church thing though. thats like a funeral in a catholic church for a suicide

so you're saying being gay is the equivalent of suicide?























j/k i know what you mean

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
China would be smart to legalize gay marriage, it might help with their population problem.

As for the UK, it's a good thing, obviously. America will too...just as soon as it pulls that crucifix out of its collective ass.
Aw, Captain, we thought you had forgotten about us.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Aw, Captain, we thought you had forgotten about us.


I could never forget you.

Originally posted by Snoopbert
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10382347/

Discuss.

That sucks

Originally posted by kmcdude
That sucks

I dont think it is necessary to legalize gay marriage as it gives a message to younger kids,that being Gay is a normal thing,I also see this leading up to kids growing up with 2 dads and feel real bad for them when they would have to answer questions to kids at school why they have 2 fathers.

Also,If this young kid grows up in front of 2 guys kissing eachother....how does he grow up to understand all this? I think if people want to engage in gay sexual activity then it should be done behind closed doors.I am sorry if I have offended anyone,but that is my view on this subject.

Originally posted by kmcdude
I dont think it is necessary to legalize gay marriage as it gives a message to younger kids,that being Gay is a normal thing,I also see this leading up to kids growing up with 2 dads and feel real bad for them when they would have to answer questions to kids at school why they have 2 fathers.

Also,If this young kid grows up in front of 2 guys kissing eachother....how does he grow up to understand all this? I think if people want to engage in gay sexual activity then it should be done behind closed doors.I am sorry if I have offended anyone,but that is my view on this subject.


Wrong thread. There's a chosen v. genetic thread. Look it up.

If you have a problem with gays, you need to re-evaluate your own grasp on your own masculinity....

Exactly. The very fact that you think people will magically become homosexual by witnessing homosexuality leads me to believe that you've witnessed some events where you had to cling to your nebulous sexuality like a balloon in a storm.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Wrong thread. There's a chosen v. genetic thread. Look it up.

If you have a problem with gays, you need to re-evaluate your own grasp on your own masculinity....

I am allowed to say my views thankyou

I dont have a problem with gays,I just think it is not something to ''commercialize''

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Exactly. The very fact that you think people will magically become homosexual by witnessing homosexuality leads me to believe that you've witnessed some events where you had to cling to your nebulous sexuality like a balloon in a storm.


Only lesbian ones

Originally posted by kmcdude
I am allowed to say my views thankyou

I dont have a problem with gays,I just think it is not something to ''commercialize''

How is allowing them to do the same things as straight couples 'commercializing' it?

Think before you type, please.

Originally posted by kmcdude
I am allowed to say my views thankyou

I dont have a problem with gays,I just think it is not something to ''commercialize''


Express your views all you want. That isn't my issue. You talk a lot about how much you oppose homosexuality. And that's cool. I have no problem with you...only with your disdain. Unexperienced and uneducated POV are the issue I'm addressing.

Your response to both posts are a total non-answer.

If you can express, in any legitimate or well-researched way, that seeing homosexuality results in becoming gay...then please do so.

I do find it a bit odd that people who try to imply that viewing homosexuality results in influence, often use the "What if a kid sees it and doubts his sexuality?" argument.

Most of the time they use a really young age, at which point in time the opposite/same sex are the furthest thing from your mind. So as Capt said first, then Vic later in more detail, it clearly is about some deep rooted fear of being homosexual themselves.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I do find it a bit odd that people who try to imply that viewing homosexuality results in influence, often use the "What if a kid sees it and doubts his sexuality?" argument.

Most of the time they use a really young age, at which point in time the opposite/same sex are the furthest thing from your mind. So as Vic said, it clearly is about some deep rooted fear of being homosexual themselves.

-AC


Actually, I said it. but I guess that's semantics.

But, you are right...in that a 4 year old might be in a developmental stage, but aren't going to become gay because they see it happen. And, the fact that they use such a young age really implies that sexuality is not a choice...even in their own minds.

Edited while I still have the ability to do so.

-AC

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Actually, I said it. but I guess that's semantics.

But, you are right...in that a 4 year old might be in a developmental stage, but aren't going to become gay because they see it happen. And, the fact that they use such a young age really implies that sexuality is not a choice...even in their own minds.

Are you saying this is good for young children to see?

Originally posted by Lana
How is allowing them to do the same things as straight couples 'commercializing' it?

Think before you type, please.

No,I think it is ''commercializing'' it in a certain way,that it is showing society that being Gay is okay if they are doing everything normal couples do.

Originally posted by kmcdude
No,I think it is ''commercializing'' it in a certain way,that it is showing society that being Gay is okay if they are doing everything normal couples do.


Another excellent non-answer.

Being gay IS okay. To assume it is not, again, is a threat to ones own "masculinity".

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Another excellent non-answer.

Being gay IS okay. To assume it is not, again, is a threat to ones own "masculinity".

No,being ''gay'' is not okay and in my view should not be accepted in this world.That is my view and my opinion.I am finished here.

Originally posted by kmcdude
No,being ''gay'' is not okay and in my view should not be accepted in this world.That is my view and my opinion.I am finished here.


There's no need for the quotation marks. I'm not "gay"...I'm just gay. Period. And in my opinion, people like you should not be accepted in this world. Your god and your bible have their place, but it's not in my life. And if god is not your banner, then you have no basis. Which would be even worse.

I'm not justifying myself to you, as your opinion of me matters little to me. Nor does your opinion of gays. BUT!...the moment you decide to put your "beliefs" in to action, then your kind will have to be dealt with.

See the Saddam thread.

Originally posted by kmcdude
No,being ''gay'' is not okay and in my view should not be accepted in this world.That is my view and my opinion.I am finished here.

Sorry, but it IS okay. It does not in anyway effect you, so why does it matter to you? How is denying someone basic rights that straight couples are allowed because they are attracted to people of their own gender 'okay'?

Originally posted by kmcdude
No,being ''gay'' is not okay and in my view should not be accepted in this world.That is my view and my opinion.I am finished here.

Finding any Christmas presents there in the closet?

I bet he finds a pair of, as Goldmember would say, toit pahnts and a card saying "It's ok son, we know and we accept you."

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
toit pahnts
-AC

That's all they sell at Express.

Yesh, yesh, yesh.

They are fery toit, toit loike a toiger.

-AC

Originally posted by kmcdude
No,I think it is ''commercializing'' it in a certain way,that it is showing society that being Gay is okay if they are doing everything normal couples do.
I'm dumbfounded. Is there some sense in which a year ago the fact that some people are gay was a big secret? We have all been aware that gay people exist for a long time. We have all known that they claim to be just the same as, and entitled to the same treatment as, heterosexuals: they don't need to be advertised by being entitled to marriage. Likewise, it's no big secret that hatemongers like yourself strongly believe that being gay is not okay.
So the difference "commercially" between a country before legalizing marriages or civil unions and a country afterwards? None whatsoever. Kids do know about gay people, or at least they will sooner or later.. so far their brains haven't blown up on us.

There are no easily demonstrated negative side effects to this law. In all the different ways in which those darn gays try to destroy society's morals, or whatever nonsense you want to spout, they are going to be doing that all the time by simply existing, and, as you seem to be endlessly asserting your right to express your opinion, they will be expressing theirs.
Only thing to do is strip them of their status as persons and ship them off to the camps. Short of those measures, the "commercializing" has been all but done for a while now.

Originally posted by Lana
Sorry, but it IS okay. It does not in anyway effect you, so why does it matter to you? How is denying someone basic rights that straight couples are allowed because they are attracted to people of their own gender 'okay'?


No,the way I have been brought up it is NOT okay in MY PERSONAL view. Being attracted to the opposite sex is natural as that is how kids are born.....if the whole world went gay,we would become extinct........please explain

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
There's no need for the quotation marks. I'm not "gay"...I'm just gay. Period. And in my opinion, people like you should not be accepted in this world. Your god and your bible have their place, but it's not in my life. And if god is not your banner, then you have no basis. Which would be even worse.

I'm not justifying myself to you, as your opinion of me matters little to me. Nor does your opinion of gays. BUT!...the moment you decide to put your "beliefs" in to action, then your kind will have to be dealt with.

See the Saddam thread.

I do not belive in a god.

Originally posted by kmcdude
I do not belive in a god.


Thank you for proving my point.

Originally posted by kmcdude
No,the way I have been brought up it is NOT okay in MY PERSONAL view. Being attracted to the opposite sex is natural as that is how kids are born.....if the whole world went gay,we would become extinct........please explain

But the whole world isn't gay. Nor will it be. Being exposed to people who are homosexual will NOT make you homosexual. Why is it so hard to understand?

Originally posted by kmcdude
Being attracted to the opposite sex is natural
And yet homosexual behaviour occurs in nature.. how odd.
And it's really odd that Levay found the anterior hypothalamus (in the brain) to be a different size in homosexual and heterosexual males. Also odd how more recent studies have found that homosexuals and heterosexuals have different physical responses to smelling pheromones.
Why, it's almost like there is some biological reason for it... now wouldn't that make it natural?

No, take this argument to the chosen v. genetic thread. That's where it belongs.

Originally posted by Zarathustra
And yet homosexual behaviour occurs in nature.. how odd.
And it's really odd that Levay found the anterior hypothalamus (in the brain) to be a different size in homosexual and heterosexual males. Also odd how more recent studies have found that homosexuals and heterosexuals have different physical responses to smelling pheromones.
Why, it's almost like there is some biological reason for it... now wouldn't that make it natural?

It would still not make it natrual it would just be nature going wrong,like when a kid is born with a deformed arm or something...

Unnatural isn't the same as unconventional.

It's still a natural baby.

-AC

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Another excellent non-answer.

Being gay IS okay. To assume it is not, again, is a threat to ones own "masculinity".

EDIT (So I have time to make a regular response)

Homosexuality is something I do not condone. However, I also do not disdain it... or rather, I do not disdain the people, but their sexual orientation. For once, yes, this does include Lesbianism (At least now, at one point in my life it was just Male Homosexuality that I disdained).

The thought a man sticking his penis up another mans ass or into their mouth just makes me feel like vomiting. Will and Grace at times makes me want to vomit. This is natural to me. I have yet to detect any real insecurity in regards to my masculinity. If there is any, it is going on behind the scenes in my sub-concious and I am not aware of it in any way, shape or form. Sorry, but that's the truth, and whether or not you as a whole (The forum) choose to accept it, label it with one of your precious names or spout one of those tired (You're probably gay - and related material!) lines of crap I here quite often in my school and on these forums, or even from my friends ("Everyone is a little gay" - "What the ****? Are you a retard?".

As for some self-created theroeis on why I find myself physically ill to such things, perhaps it's in relation to my beliefs in God. Note how I say God, rather than naming a religion. It might be socially related, or not. I don't paticularly know. In my opinion, it just isn't right. At all. But, I will point out that what is right is subjective, entirely. I've heard from multiple "mouths of the forums" that absolute evil and good does not exist, or if it does, we do not know of it yet. Therefore, absolute right and wrong does not exist in the philisophical and social sense. That would mean, being gay is right is subjective to the person, regardless of whether or not the majority of an area views it one way or another.

There are gay children in my school: Two homosexuals, one bi-sexual male. (This is where I learned that the stereotype of weak gay kids was quite wrong, as I witnessed the bi-sexual male beat the crap out of a Skater giving him a hard time). I actually am remotely friends with the bi kid. The other homosexual kid is pretty cool too. Most of those Homosexual children are friends with most of my friends as well... in fact, the bisexual and my Best Friend (Who is a female, for reference) are rather good friends. So the claim that It doesn't affect me is quite invalid.


That ends my rant.

I could not even put my penis up a girl's ass,let alone a guy

Originally posted by kmcdude
I could not even put my penis up a girl's ass,let alone a guy

*Stumbles into thread*

H-HEY! Could someone give me a hand with all this evidence? It's really piling up.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
*Stumbles into thread*

H-HEY! Could someone give me a hand with all this evidence? It's really piling up.

-AC

Dont get it

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
*Stumbles into thread*

H-HEY! Could someone give me a hand with all this evidence? It's really piling up.

-AC

Look at his title, AC. Oh boy.....you aren't kidding, piling up indeed.

Originally posted by BackFire
Look at his title, AC. Oh boy.....you aren't kidding, piling up indeed.

oh.........I get it



Funny

Santa's Little Helper also looks like he has a lot of stuff dripping from his mouth.

Dubious indeed.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Santa's Little Helper also looks like he has a lot of stuff dripping from his mouth.

Dubious indeed.

-AC


Hahaha, holy shit that's funny.

Oh my.

"Merry Christmas my little friends."

Not good.

(This is all in humour, kmcdude. Don't take offense, I've learned tonight that people can be oversensitive)

-AC

I'd like to share my opinion on this Matter. I'd like to directly point out that Marriage of the same sex completely defies what is written in the Catholic Bible.

I was in a heated Arguement with a Homosexual friend of mine and it got heated.

He stated the following:

Gay Marriage should be allowed around the World to be a unified practice by the Law. It may go against the Bible, but it also goes against Human Rights.


^ What the f*ck?

In the Bible, it states that Marriage is to be "Man and Woman." I disagree with it and it really twiches at me. I can understand Homosexuals dating and going out with each other but breaking an Ancient and sacred code of the bible just because you want to put your Homosexual relations onto solid documents which directly distorts and breaks the direct Bible Rule?

Marriage has nothing to do with the bible. Bible is not a valid authority on anything other then religious beliefs, and you can't push religious beliefs on others.

Originally posted by Sorgo
I'd like to directly point out that Marriage of the same sex completely defies what is written in the Catholic Bible..... the phrase "So what?" springs to my mind... a marriage is just a legal contract...

Originally posted by BackFire
Marriage has nothing to do with the bible. Bible is not a valid authority on anything other then religious beliefs, and you can't push religious beliefs on others.

This is True. Disregard my last points.


I still continue to think it is wrong. Marriage is entied between Man and Woman, not Man and Man... Woman and Woman...

Because the last time I checked it was Adam and Eve.... Not Adam and Steve.

Excluding Religion, Homosexual Marriage is considerabely unatural and is questionably a Chemical Imbalance of the brain.

Backfire, What is your take on Homosexual Marriage? Do you Agree? Or No?

Homosexual marriage isn't any more unnatural than same sex marriage.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Homosexual marriage isn't any more unnatural than same sex marriage.

-AC


Ouch....


I disagree. I don't see same-sex people having the ability to create a Baby. The creation of a life form signifies that Opposite-sex is natural.


Homosexual-Sex has been in question of being part of a Brain defect.


So... What makes Homosexuality natural again?

I don't see anything unnatural about gay marriage or homosexuality, and your friend is right, it does go against human rights, because it is discrimination based on sexual preference.

Originally posted by Sorgo
This is True. Disregard my last points.


I still continue to think it is wrong. Marriage is entied between Man and Woman, not Man and Man... Woman and Woman...

Because the last time I checked it was Adam and Eve.... Not Adam and Steve.

Excluding Religion, Homosexual Marriage is considerabely unatural and is questionably a Chemical Imbalance of the brain.

Backfire, What is your take on Homosexual Marriage? Do you Agree? Or No?

Again, you're referencing the bible. I don't care that it was "Adam and Eve" not "Adam and Steve". It has nothing to do with anything of relevence, simply more religious rhetoric.

Marriage itself, the very idea of it, is unatural. It's unatural for an animals to dedicate itself entirely to only one sexual partner during it's lifetime. Homosexuality itself is no more unatural then heterosexuality. It happens in nature. As, I believe, AC said earlier - Just because it may be unconventional doesn't mean it's unatural.

I am completely in favor of homosexual marriage. I see no reasons, moral or other, to object to it. I think they should have the same rights as everyone else and be subject to the same annoyance that marriage generally brings to straight people. It doesn't effect me, so why should I care? It probably won't effect you or anyone who isn't gay, so why should it matter to you?

Alot of things are discriminating, Fire.


Sure, it is Discrimination based on a preference but it is unatural.

you consider it unatural that does not make it so. Until there is undisputable scientific data that this is unatural those claims are invalid.

And a lot of things are discriminating indeed, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't change the ones we can change.

Originally posted by BackFire
Again, you're referencing the bible. I don't care that it was "Adam and Eve" not "Adam and Steve". It has nothing to do with anything of relevence, simply more religious rhetoric.

Marriage itself, the very idea of it, is unatural. It's unatural for an animals to dedicate itself entirely to only one sexual partner during it's lifetime. Homosexuality itself is no more unatural then heterosexuality. It happens in nature. As, I believe, AC said earlier - Just because it may be unconventional doesn't mean it's unatural.

I am completely in favor of homosexual marriage. I see no reasons, moral or other, to object to it. I think they should have the same rights as everyone else and be subject to the same annoyance that marriage generally brings to straight people. It doesn't effect me, so why should I care? It probably won't effect you or anyone who isn't gay, so why should it matter to you?

It doesn't matter to me. I am just expressing my views on the Topic. Hopefully, any Homosexuals on this board will not over-react to my Views.

I have had that happen numerous times. This my opinion and I ask you guys to Value it as I value your opinions and Sexual Preferences.

Although I will continue to disagree with it.

Originally posted by Fire
you consider it unatural that does not make it so. Until there is undisputable scientific data that this is unatural those claims are invalid.

And a lot of things are discriminating indeed, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't change the ones we can change. Gay Marriage is still in Question to be a Malfunction of the Brain according to Scientests who have been researching Homosexuality for years.

Once there is direct proof of it being Natural, then I may just change.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Homosexual Marriage is considerabely unatural and is questionably a Chemical Imbalance of the brain.

Homosexual-Sex has been in question of being part of a Brain defect.Hi. Neuroscientist. Could you direct me to from where you derive this if you don't mind. Brain Research? Neuroscience? Journal of Clinical Neuroscience? Journal of Chemical Neuroanatomy? Behavioral Neuroscience?

Originally posted by Sorgo
Gay Marriage is still in Question to be a Malfunction of the Brain according to Scientests who have been researching Homosexuality for years.

Once there is direct proof of it being Natural, then I may just change.

Well I'm pretty sure there are tons of scientists who have studied homosexuality for centuries who came up with very different conclussions

Again Sorgo, it's not unatural because it happens in nature.

Originally posted by Fire
Well I'm pretty sure there are tons of scientists who have studied homosexuality for centuries who came up with very different conclussions

Oh of course! The fact that Homosexuality is in qeustion of it's naturality is just 50/50 balance to the fact it may be Natural/Unatural


Backfire:

Then everything must be Natural, right?

isn't the essence of something being 'natural' the fact that it happens in nature without us tampering with it?

Originally posted by Fire
isn't the essence of something being 'natural' the fact that it happens in nature without us tampering with it? "Natural" is subjective to the views of the individual using the term. Medicine is unnatural.... Clothing is unnatural....

Originally posted by Sorgo
Oh of course! The fact that Homosexuality is in qeustion of it's naturality is just 50/50 balance to the fact it may be Natural/Unatural


Backfire:

Then everything must be Natural, right?


If it happens in nature, yep.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Hi. Neuroscientist. Could you direct me to from where you derive this if you don't mind. Brain Research? Neuroscience? Journal of Clinical Neuroscience? Journal of Chemical Neuroanatomy? Behavioral Neuroscience?

I stumbled across some interesting sites, Including ones that claimed that Homosexuality was a Disease and a Chemical Imbalance.

Type this into Google:

Homosexuality: a chemical imbalance?

Originally posted by BackFire
If it happens in nature, yep.

Then... In Essence... *EVERYTHING* is natural.

Then I wonder where Unaturality plays a Role. Does it not exist, Backfire?

And what makes you think that Homosexuality just isn't Opposite-Sex tampered with since it is only unatural when tampered with, right?

if you can give me proof of how heterosexuals pushed ppl (by persuasion, drugs or other treatment) into becoming gay, not discovering that they were gay all along but BECOMING gay, and not just to try it once, then in that case I might consider it unatural. But I doubt your gay friend thinks it is unatural.

Originally posted by Sorgo
I stumbled across some interesting sites, Including ones that claimed that Homosexuality was a Disease and a Chemical Imbalance.

Type this into Google:

Homosexuality: a chemical imbalance? In other words there isn't an abundance of actual published replicable research to back up your claim as seems implied? Rather instead it is reliant on the veracity of a google search...

as one of my university professors once said "Google can be used to proof anything, so don't use it to proof anything"

I believe that homosexual couples should be allowed to marry or at least have a civil union (with all of the same legal benefits/consequences, etc.), though religious figures should not be forced into ordaining such a union.

But just to play devil's advocate, the fact that something is naturally occurring does not necessarily make it 'normal' or 'right'.

The fact that homosexuality is 'natural' shouldn't be in question here, in my opinion. Obviously, no one is genetically engineered to be gay.

we were not talking about 'normal' or 'right', we were talking about 'natural'

'normal' or 'right' are subjective terms.

Originally posted by Fire
we were not talking about 'normal' or 'right', we were talking about 'natural'

'normal' or 'right' are subjective terms.

No, but it's obvious that his argument is that if homosexuality is 'unnatural', then it is automatically 'wrong'.

I'm not sure in what manner "natural" is being defined here though, in order to extrapolate to "wrong".
Occurring in nature outside of the human species? In which case it is still "natural", however things like complex language are not.
Occurring without external interference? In which case it is still "natural", but then one would argue things such as clothing and medicine are "unnatural" and should be extrapolated as "wrong".

Originally posted by Sorgo
Ouch....


I disagree. I don't see same-sex people having the ability to create a Baby. The creation of a life form signifies that Opposite-sex is natural.


Homosexual-Sex has been in question of being part of a Brain defect.


So... What makes Homosexuality natural again?

You referred to the act of marriage, which has nothing to do with what makes homosexuality natural.

It's two human beings indulging in the very human acts and emotions of sexual intercourse and attraction. These two things are natural, they are doing the unconventional by doing it with the same sex.

-AC

I know, that's worst than just thinking it is unatural, but the first one is wrong as well, if we can convince him of his mistake in the first part then everything is ok

No, no, no...

Although I don't care if they do it, I think it just isn't right. It IS Unatural.

Over five hundred thousand people think that Homosexuality is wrong. Do that many people think that Heterosexuality is wrong?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'm not sure in what manner "natural" is being defined here though, in order to extrapolate to "wrong".
Occurring in nature outside of the human species? In which case it is still "natural", however things like complex language are not.
Occurring without external interference? In which case it is still "natural", but then one would argue things such as clothing and medicine are "unnatural" and should be extrapolated as "wrong".

Which is why his point, or at least choice of wording, is incorrect.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'm not sure in what manner "natural" is being defined here though, in order to extrapolate to "wrong".
Occurring in nature outside of the human species? In which case it is still "natural", however things like complex language are not.
Occurring without external interference? In which case it is still "natural", but then one would argue things such as clothing and medicine are "unnatural" and should be extrapolated as "wrong".

They should. Clothing covers your natural body and Medicine can be hazardous for you.

They should be extrapolated as wrong, but they aren't.

Similar to Homosexuality.

Originally posted by Sorgo
No, no, no...

Although I don't care if they do it, I think it just isn't right. It IS Unatural.

Over five hundred thousand people think that Homosexuality is wrong. Do that many people think that Heterosexuality is wrong?

500,000 people, eh? Pretty small amount considering there are 6 billion+ in the world.

Neither is "wrong". There is no reason to see it as "wrong". There is no victim, no negative consequence, no logically sound reason to see it as wrong or to oppose it.

there's even more gay people than that

Originally posted by BackFire
500,000 people, eh? Pretty small amount considering there are 6 billion+ in the world.

Neither is "wrong". There is no reason to see it as "wrong". There is no victim, no negative consequence, no logically sound reason to see it as wrong or to oppose it.

Ah, so more than 500 Thou? I thought so.




Well, there is. Because... Well... 500,000+ See it as wrong. And it may just be wrong. It hasn't even been proven to be "Right".

Originally posted by Sorgo
No, no, no...

Although I don't care if they do it, I think it just isn't right. It IS Unatural.

Over five hundred thousand people think that Homosexuality is wrong. Do that many people think that Heterosexuality is wrong? Until you provide something substantive as to from where it is derived that homosexuality is not naturally occuring, e.g. photos of the labs in which they GE people into homosexuals, your claim that homosexuality is "unnatural" is nothing more than an opinion based upon a belief that it is "wrong".

Seeing as from what I can determine you have no substantial background or training in law, medicine or biology, and likely neither do the majority of those five hundred thousand people you took the time to personally poll, how relevant is their personal opinion to alterations to legal frameworks that have no bearing on them whatsoever?

Well, lets see.

There is no consequence to homosexuality.

There is no inherent negative.

There is no victim, no one is hurt by it.

So, what makes it wrong? "Wrong" means it's bad, what makes it bad?

If 500,000 people see it as wrong, that means 5.9 billion people see it as okay.

You know what? I wanna call for a Poll.... If it's okay and if it hasn't been done before.

500,000+ People, Backfire.

There is no negatives to Homosexuality? Er... I'd rather not get into it....

There is Consequence to everything.

Wrong doesn't make it bad. It makes it unatural, which is what I think it is.

1. Why is something unatural automatically wrong?

2. What makes it unatural when it happens in nature without any tampering?

Homosexuality is no more "wrong" then heterosexuality. There are consequences, yes, but no moreso then heterosexuality.

Originally posted by Sorgo
You know what? I wanna call for a Poll.... If it's okay and if it hasn't been done before.

500,000+ People, Backfire.

There is no negatives to Homosexuality? Er... I'd rather not get into it....

There is Consequence to everything.

Wrong doesn't make it bad. It makes it unatural, which is what I think it is. You pulled the figure 500,000 out of nowhere. Stop implying it is an actual statistic.

Originally posted by Sorgo
I disagree. I don't see same-sex people having the ability to create a Baby. The creation of a life form signifies that Opposite-sex is natural.


So... What makes Homosexuality natural again?
Humans are obviously a part of nature, so if humans have homosexual relationships, is that not therefore a part of nature? We don' t find dogs, cows, and lions entering into legal marriage contracts with one another - does that mean that legal marriage as an institution is unnatural and should be eliminated?

Is it valid to assume that the natural end of marriage is procreation, and that therefore non-procreative gay couples cannot reasonably be allowed to marry? No infertile couples would be allowed to marry.

Originally posted by Sorgo
I stumbled across some interesting sites, Including ones that claimed that Homosexuality was a Disease and a Chemical Imbalance.

Type this into Google:

Homosexuality: a chemical imbalance?


Is that the best you can do?


Besides, consider it a terrible act against nature. But, from where does the crime come?

Originally posted by debbiejo
China?????????? Never!
Actually couple of days ago in sina (pretty much chinese version of yahoo!) I read that same-sex marriages might not be that far from happening in China.
I walk down the streets of Shanghai and it's FULL of gay men, I'm not exaggerating there are lots of them.

As for the topic, hurrah for the uk! Though I don't think I'm ever gonna marry it's good to know I could in some places...

Originally posted by kmcdude
I could not even put my penis up a girl's ass,let alone a guy Well thats besides the point now isn't it. I dont fancy munching a chick but I give full props to others lifestyles. I dont think the world would like to give itself to your rule

Originally posted by PVS
so you're saying being gay is the equivalent of suicide?






j/k i know what you mean Heehee I read the beginning of that post and my eyes went all, ***** ill rip you.... ohh he was kidding

Originally posted by Snoopbert
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10382347/

Discuss.

Looks like the residents of UK are gonna see alot of same sex couples

No more than we do already.

This being a now legal option isn't going to increase the number of homosexuals, just the amount of homosexuals who can enter a legally binding same-sex partnership.

-AC

I'm curious as to what these negatives Sorgo claims to exist are.

And I wish the US would wake the hell up and legalize gay marriage already.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Santa's Little Helper also looks like he has a lot of stuff dripping from his mouth.

Dubious indeed.

-AC

holly shit that's hilarious

Originally posted by Sorgo
They should. Clothing covers your natural body and Medicine can be hazardous for you.

They should be extrapolated as wrong, but they aren't.

Similar to Homosexuality.
So I guess we're all like homosexuals, than, for wearing clothes and using medicine and computers. So, while we're at banning same-sex marriages for being unnatural and thus wrong, we should probably get rid of medical treatments, industry, technology and clothing. That's great, because I always wanted to freeze to death during the winter, condemn another hefty percentage of the world to starvation, and otherwise cut our life expectancy down by forty years or so.

Originally posted by Zarathustra
So I guess we're all like homosexuals, than, for wearing clothes and using medicine and computers. So, while we're at banning same-sex marriages for being unnatural and thus wrong, we should probably get rid of medical treatments, industry, technology and clothing. That's great, because I always wanted to freeze to death during the winter, condemn another hefty percentage of the world to starvation, and otherwise cut our life expectancy down by forty years or so. The world is hypocritical. After people accept that, then woo to us.

I'm done here. It's obvious you all disagree with me.

Originally posted by kmcdude
No,the way I have been brought up it is NOT okay in MY PERSONAL view. Being attracted to the opposite sex is natural as that is how kids are born.....if the whole world went gay,we would become extinct........please explain

I was brought up in a semi Christan family...

I was taught that "gays" (that is how you put it) would go straight to hell...By listening to what church people have to say for years trying to brainwash me NOT to be gay...HAHA yeah right---Being gay is not a trend, and commercializing it is just the same as commercializing STRAIGHT lives...I know you can have your opinion, but get your facts straight

Having a gay couple that has kids, will not make the kids gay...just because they see 2 men kiss doesn't MEAN they will turn gay, where do you get your facts at??? I would love to know (Are you gay, have you experienced it???) I can also have my opinion too, I say you are full of shit, End of story, and everyone that follows your views needs to get their facts straight...Mind your own damn business thanks

These threads make me sick...They always result in a stupid debate...People should be educated more on the subject before they type something...

I wish a mod can just close this, this thread has already gone down in the hole...

Yes I could have just left this thread alone, But I can speak my mind (Seeing every gay thread out there on these forums)--this one makes me sick even more

Ok I am done

Get their facts straight What facts are there in the game of love?

Originally posted by Snoopbert
Get their facts straight What facts are there in the game of love?

get your facts straight snoop/dogbert

And I thought this was the gen dis..shows your topic went off topic from your original haha

Well, it isn't too far. I did say discuss, and look what they're doing It isn't a bad thread, and it hasn't gone anywhere bad. So far, everyone has remained civil.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Gay Marriage is still in Question to be a Malfunction of the Brain according to Scientests who have been researching Homosexuality for years.

Once there is direct proof of it being Natural, then I may just change.

Show me. Show me where you have read this. Reference one site that supports this claim. And don't pull a Whob and post a bunch of crappy religion-based sites. Find me a single website that states that ANY real scientist has said it's a "malfunction" of the brain.


How can you ask any gay people on these boards to read your posts and NOT get offended?

When was the last time someone called you a "brain malfunction" and you didn't get offended?

I have Attention Defisite Disorder (Diagnosed). That is a brain 'malfunction' but whenever people talk about it I do not get offended. It's rather easy.

what's your point?

It isn't much different from Sorgo saying that Homosexuality is a brain error or whatever (I don't agree with that, however) and Gays taking offense to that.

Originally posted by Snoopbert
It isn't much different from Sorgo saying that Homosexuality is a brain error or whatever (I don't agree with that, however) and Gays taking offense to that.

Okay, I do take offense to it, however.

How about a national movement led by christian conservatives to amend the constitution so that it becomes illegal for ANYONE who has ADD to marry another person who has ADD? The two are totally different.

Or, how about knowing other people with ADD who have been attacked on the streets by people who didn't have ADD...simply because that person had ADD.

Or how about having to deal with the social stereotype of shows called ADD like Me! ...becoming the farcical center-ring act for the public amusment and beratement of a public that neither truely accepts or appreciates you? Individually or as a group?

Originally posted by Snoopbert
It isn't much different from Sorgo saying that Homosexuality is a brain error or whatever (I don't agree with that, however) and Gays taking offense to that.
Capt is right, there is a very big difference between having ADD and being gay...

Capt, there actually is a show called Gay like me?

Well, while it's not my cup of tea, there IS an upside to being gay...for every two guys that kiss, that means there's two more women for ME!

So pucker up, boys, I'll handle the female overflow

Here in South Africa, the government also legalised Gay marriages. What a great action of acknowledging human rights.

Originally posted by Eis
Capt, there actually is a show called Gay like me?
I know there's one called "Queer as Folk" or something like that.

Originally posted by Zarathustra
I know there's one called "Queer as Folk" or something like that.
I've heard of that one.. never seen it though.. is it any good?

Eh. The plot has rare moments. But otherwise it's rather stilted. Especially when it tries to convey a moral message with porno music in the background....

Originally posted by Draco69
Eh. The plot has rare moments. But otherwise it's rather stilted. Especially when it tries to convey a moral message with porno music in the background....
lol, so I take it you're not a big fan?

I only watched like two or three shows. It's a groundbreaking show, I recognize that. It's just rather shallow for my tastes. And the dialogue has its moments, but is very stilted and strained when it comes to gay issues like marriage and adoption.

Originally posted by Draco69
I only watched like two or three shows. It's a groundbreaking show, I recognize that. It's just rather shallow for my tastes. And the dialogue has its moments, but is very stilted and strained when it comes to gay issues like marriage and adoption.

I have heard of all the "gay" shows. Even LOGO, the gay network, are repulsive in my opinion. They're all nothing but a bunch of stereo-type fulfilling, craptastic and shallow shows.

I make an exception for Six Feet Under. Even if the white boy is a whiner....

Originally posted by Draco69


I make an exception for Six Feet Under. Even if the white boy is a whiner....

Oh, that's one of my all-time favorite shows. I don't really consider that "gay" tv, though.

I stopped watching it after season two. It got boring....

Hopefully Brokeback Mountain will be good.

Originally posted by Eis
lol, so I take it you're not a big fan?