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The founder of the infamous Crips gang is gonna be excecuted on Dec, 13. Plus Snoops gonna be there blue_bandana http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stan_Tookie_Williams

**** him. Hang him high!

Bet the Bloodz is happy, yo.

Whether he's reformed or not doesnt matter,he did what he did. Maybe he could just get life though.

Originally posted by KidRock
**** him. Hang him high!

Is it just coincidence that you would associate hanging with black males Cletus?

Originally posted by koolruningz
Is it just coincidence that you would associate hanging with black males Cletus?

I think his name is Tookie..not Cletus.

How you managed to get that from my post is quite an achievement really. Yes or no would have been fine.

This guy was responsible for the deaths of 4 innocent people (that we know of). One shot in the back of the head, "execution style" the other three, members of the same family.

Some people may say that he is reformed because of his work with gangs. But he is still a member of the Crips, recieves money in prison from outside sources and will not offer any information to the authorities as to the inner workings of gangs as he does not want to be a snitch.

The fact that he has been nominated for a nobel peace prize is a joke. People say he's doing good with his life now, I question his intentions or sincerity. Whatever the case, I don't think that one man is capable of doing the amount of good that it would take to erase the severity and lasting reprocussions of his past deeds.

Not to mention the message that might be sent out to gang members and their adoring youth followers in the suburbs if this man was pardoned.

Urban followers too

Originally posted by koolruningz
How you managed to get that from my post is quite an achievement really. Yes or no would have been fine.

i dont understand why people do this, the mans a criminal, he was responsible for the deaths of innocent people, yet they kill him and people treat him like a martyr. we're going through the same shit in aus with a heroin smuggler whos going to get hung in Singapore.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
This guy was responsible for the deaths of 4 innocent people (that we know of). One shot in the back of the head, "execution style" the other three, members of the same family.

Some people may say that he is reformed because of his work with gangs. But he is still a member of the Crips, recieves money in prison from outside sources and will not offer any information to the authorities as to the inner workings of gangs as he does not want to be a snitch.

The fact that he has been nominated for a nobel peace prize is a joke. People say he's doing good with his life now, I question his intentions or sincerity. Whatever the case, I don't think that one man is capable of doing the amount of good that it would take to erase the severity and lasting reprocussions of his past deeds.

Not to mention the message that might be sent out to gang members and their adoring youth followers in the suburbs if this man was pardoned.

Exactly

Originally posted by tabby999
i dont understand why people do this, the mans a criminal, he was responsible for the deaths of innocent people, yet they kill him and people treat him like a martyr. we're going through the same shit in aus with a heroin smuggler whos going to get hung in Singapore.

Singapore? He might get a whipping

Originally posted by Inspectah Deck
Singapore? He might get a whipping

he's getting hung tmorrow at 9am. good riddance you f*cking trafficker

Originally posted by KharmaDog
This guy was responsible for the deaths of 4 innocent people (that we know of). One shot in the back of the head, "execution style" the other three, members of the same family.

Some people may say that he is reformed because of his work with gangs. But he is still a member of the Crips, recieves money in prison from outside sources and will not offer any information to the authorities as to the inner workings of gangs as he does not want to be a snitch.

The fact that he has been nominated for a nobel peace prize is a joke. People say he's doing good with his life now, I question his intentions or sincerity. Whatever the case, I don't think that one man is capable of doing the amount of good that it would take to erase the severity and lasting reprocussions of his past deeds.

Not to mention the message that might be sent out to gang members and their adoring youth followers in the suburbs if this man was pardoned.

While I won't address his sincerity, as it matters little, I agree that he should have his sentance carried out.

Originally posted by tabby999
he's getting hung tmorrow at 9am. good riddance you f*cking trafficker

Uh-oh

byebye pussy@$$ gang lovin ****monkey


im a redneck
\

Originally posted by mentalguy
byebye pussy@$$ gang lovin ****monkey


im a redneck
\

Hard to say what's more pathetic. that your a retard that is a redneck. Or that you are a retard that takes pride in being a redneck.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Or that you are a retard that takes pride in being a redneck.

I wasn't aware that there was any other kind.

I mean, I've encountered rednecks and they have pretty much always been proud of it. But, you know, they're really just proud of it because they know thats all they'll ever be...so why not be proud? I've always assumed it was a passion for manual labour that only results in more manual labour

well, our friend the heroin trafficer is no more, hung yesterday. the most disgusting thing was that people were trying to get Australia to have a minute of silence for this peddler. he didn't defend our country, he tried to smuggle drugs. so i made a hell of alot of noise at 9

ya so im a redneck that makes 100,000 dollars a year and im 16. so ya i drive a truck and it has rebel flag on it. so yea im proud to be one of the few true yankees left. deal with it or get the fu(k out of america.

Originally posted by tabby999
well, our friend the heroin trafficer is no more, hung yesterday. the most disgusting thing was that people were trying to get Australia to have a minute of silence for this peddler. he didn't defend our country, he tried to smuggle drugs. so i made a hell of alot of noise at 9


i salute youusaflag

anyone remember the southpark episode where they had the Anit War protest, "if yew dont lyke merica, yew can GIT OWWWT"

tabby is awsome notworthy

Originally posted by tabby999
well, our friend the heroin trafficer is no more, hung yesterday. the most disgusting thing was that people were trying to get Australia to have a minute of silence for this peddler. he didn't defend our country, he tried to smuggle drugs. so i made a hell of alot of noise at 9



aww i didnt get to tell him to go **** himself while he was hung

Originally posted by mentalguy
ya so im a redneck that makes 100,000 dollars a year and im 16. so ya i drive a truck and it has rebel flag on it. so yea im proud to be one of the few true yankees left. deal with it or get the fu(k out of america.

You forgot to say that you were full of bullsh*t. By the way, a yankee wouldn't be driving a truck with a rebel flag on it. You might wanna bone up on the history there junior.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
You forgot to say that you were full of bullsh*t. By the way, a yankee wouldn't be driving a truck with a rebel flag on it. You might wanna bone up on the history there junior.


man dont even get me started. you dont like me quit posting then.


proud to be an americantank

Originally posted by mentalguy
ya so im a redneck that makes 100,000 dollars a year and im 16. so ya i drive a truck and it has rebel flag on it. so yea im proud to be one of the few true yankees left. deal with it or get the fu(k out of america.

That didn't make any sense

Originally posted by Inspectah Deck
That didn't make any sense



look at the clues then

I did. Looks like your the culprit

Originally posted by Inspectah Deck
I did. Looks like your the culprit



oh no looks like im on the run again

Punctuation is a wonderful thing.

Again?

Originally posted by Tptmanno1
Punctuation is a wonderful thing.


yup it is isnt it

Originally posted by Inspectah Deck
Again?



yes hitler

Originally posted by mentalguy
byebye pussy@$$ gang lovin ****monkey


im a redneck
\ You're also a f*ggot

Originally posted by StaT1c
You're also a f*ggot




is that all you can come up with. man get a life loser.

Originally posted by mentalguy
is that all you can come up with. man get a life loser. Nope. That's just all I need you f*ggot.

Originally posted by StaT1c
Nope. That's just all I need you f*ggot.


here we go again jerry

lol im a fagot. look at this queres profile before he changes it

Originally posted by mentalguy
is that all you can come up with. man get a life loser.

Your the loser

Be respectful of other members. We can all express our opinions without being sarcastic, demeaming, belittling or putting down other members. Please choose your words wisely!

Originally posted by Storm
Be respectful of other members. We can all express our opinions without being sarcastic, demeaming, belittling or putting down other members. Please choose your words wisely!

Originally posted by Storm
Be respectful of other members. We can all express our opinions without being sarcastic, demeaming, belittling or putting down other members. Please choose your words wisely!


thanks Mod police

SAN FRANCISCO - The California Supreme Court late Sunday refused to grant a stay of execution for convicted killer Stanley Tookie Williams, meaning the former gang leader who became an outspoken critic of gang violence will be executed early Tuesday Dec. 12 2005 unless the governor grants clemency or a last-ditch federal appeal succeeds. Williams' supporters also made another pitch directly to the governor Sunday to spare his life, telling Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger in a letter that they had a new witness who could help prove Williams' innocence.

I dunno. What'd you guys think?

Originally posted by mentalguy
byebye pussy@$$ gang lovin ****monkey


im a redneck
\
monkey?
i thought racial slurs were against policy here?

I know a few people on this post who should be executed for not shutting the hell up, lol

Anyway, I'm neutral on the Tookie thing. Killing and getting killed is bad just or not. I think it may be a deterrent but sometimes the system fails but then again sometimes some crimes are mad severe to the point where it lies in between insane and criminal mind. That interface is the part that keeps me undecided.

I was reading about this very issue this AM, in the SF Chronicle. (I live in SF) Look, I'm glad this guy has performed some measure of pennance for his misdeeds. However, if the whole world got away with murder, simply by telling kids not to do it after they, themselves, already had...then what is the over all message we're sending? Sorry, but the guy has his punishment coming.

When he's dead, he'll serve as an even BETTER example of a reason NOT to join gangs. If he was so concerned with stopping kids from joining gangs, he might realize that. But, he's got a good thing going in jail. Sometimes, celebrities shed light on a descent issue, but 9 times out of 10, they just jump on a band wagon for their own selfish reasons....namely publicity.

im not for freeing the guy.
just against murdering him.

Originally posted by PVS
im not for freeing the guy.
just against murdering him.

Death penalty isnt murder.

Did you guys hear? They just granted him clemency..wait..I didnt hear that either!

Originally posted by KidRock
Death penalty isnt murder.

Did you guys hear? They just granted him clemency..wait..I didnt hear that either!

Yes it is

i dont care how much this guy "changed," do you think he'd have "changed" if he hadn't been caught and thrown in jail? hardly

Originally posted by Inspectah Deck
Yes it is

# To kill (another human) unlawfully.
# To kill brutally or inhumanly.
The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

Death penalty isnt unlawful killing..also you cant prove it is inhumane. So no, it is not murder.

Originally posted by PVS
im not for freeing the guy.
just against murdering him.

I understand your logic. How can we impose death on one person for commiting murder, without looking hypocritical? Death is death is death. And killing a man on the streets with a knife is no different than strapping a man into a chair and frying him with electricity.


But, I believe that that is the right of a government than has the support of the laws behind it. Once the death penalty is no longer an option, then I'll feel differently. But I hope it never isn't an option.

It's a circular argument, on which we all have our own opinion.

And my opinion is, let him swing.

Originally posted by KidRock
# To kill (another human) unlawfully.
# To kill brutally or inhumanly.
The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

Death penalty isnt unlawful killing..also you cant prove it is inhumane. So no, it is not murder.

Inhuman? I'm sure alot of people think the Death Penalty is inhuman

I am not a huge fan of the death penealty, however, that was his sentence, and it's not like he earned it having killed on person execution-style and a family of three innicent people.

The problem is(as I see it) if he is granted clemency, then that will be seen as a victory by all the wrong people. Further emboldening them to continue a violent lifestyle that's main thrust is the victimization of others..

I don't see any real reason why he should continue to breath air.

I agree with PVS here. Don't free the man, but don't kill him.

As for the death penalty not being inhuman: I think injecting someone with lethal fluid, to kill them, is pretty brutal. Strapping them to a metal chair and killing them via electricity is brutal.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I agree with PVS here. Don't free the man, but don't kill him.

As for the death penalty not being inhuman: I think injecting someone with lethal fluid, to kill them, is pretty brutal. Strapping them to a metal chair and killing them via electricity is brutal.

-AC

Well its not a brutal as what he did to his those poor people that he killed. Let him die, hes a freaking murderer , if it was your family or someone u know or hell even YOU that was killed, you would want him to be punished for his crime!!!!! Also doesn't really make sense to let a murder out of jail and he could just end up killing someone else again!! It doesn't even sound like hes changed much, still talking with that gang! Pretty bad when people want a murder out of jail

A) As brutal or not, it's still brutal. I would argue that it's more brutal. Killing someone with electricity on purpose. That's closer to torture than what he did.

B) What do you mean when you say, "or hell even YOU that was killed, you would want him to be punished for his crime!!!!!", hmm? If I were dead I wouldn't know.

-AC

A) Im pretty sure hes not going to die in pain, they will inject him and he will simply fall asleep and die.

B) why are people worried about a murderer like this??? this is crazy, we should be talking about supporting the family of the victims.

C) the people he killed knew that they was going to die, he told 1 of them to get on the floor and on his knees and shot him in the back of the head. He shot another in the back and laughed about it when he was dying!

Yah lets worry more about a murderer then the victims.

As a correctional officer for the TDCJ (Texas Dept. of Criminal Justice) I realize that a lot of inmates who are locked up for a long period of time can truly have a 180 degree change and rehabilitate from the old person they were. They can truly repent for their crimes, and even find hope/education/religion while on the inside. I see it all the time. But the fact remains that Williams killed innocent human beings. He deserves to be punished for his crimes. I, myself, am a strong advocate of the Death Penalty. He is getting what he deserves. Some people would also argue the case of Carla Faye Tucker, who was "so reformed into a woman of God" and how she "truly repented her sins and was unconditionally rehabilitated". So? Does it erase the crime? Nope. "Tookie" Williams deserves to die. Let whoever or whatever is on the other side judge him and see if the books he wrote are reform enough.

Well no matter now. He' been executed.

He may have committed the crime but, ..i duno..

I don't think anyone should have the power to take someones life. Not Tookie not the Gov. or the State, but then again an example needed to be set.. i duno. just maybe by other means perhaps.

And i duno how people, like death penalty advocates, that have regular lives and have been in no way affected by severe crimes, would want for the death of another human being. It's like "well, wtf did he do to you. why do you wish him dead." I would never wish death to an man that I didn't know (and did know) simply because I'm a tight-ass who's upset with his own life. It's like "My life sucks and I'm mad, so yea execute him." It's disgusting. I stay away from people like that.

I'm not pro-crime but I'm not pro-******* either.

But as for tookie.

Couldn't agree more, Impediment.

BTW-My mom is also (or was) a CO in our state.

She pretty much said the same thing about the reform and the conversions to religion and all that. She also said some of it is show
to impress the parole board, and that if she had a dime for each time someone became a Muslim or a Christian to try to get out of the slammer, she'd be rich.

And she also said that if she had a dime for each time they went back
to their old ways when they get refused by the parole board, she'd be a billionaire.

I'm not saying that ALL inmates are incapable of reform, but this guy is the co-founder of the Crips, for God's sake. This guy is and always will be, who he is. And his lack of remorse and his flat out claim of innocence in the face of what he did is what killed him. To his dying day he had no feelings for what he did.

And now Hollywood comes out to defend him? It figures, being they're America's delusional third political party. Overpaid, under disciplined whelps who buy their way out of the law while everyone else goes to jail for the same thing. And I don't think I need to explain who bought the law out recently..

From guns, politics, and foreign policy, Hollywood knows it all...

As usual, there's a lot of ignorance on display in this thread...

What does it say about a society when a person can reform, show evidence of that reform, show contrition for his deeds (in regards to his life as a crip), yet ultimately be dealt exactly the same punishment as the one he committed? How can a human being be judged in absolutes that refuse to recognise the rehabilitation of man, regardless of what he has done? He was convicted of the crimes he was tried for, so I'm not debating that, but this behavior by the US government is despicable, barbaric and hyprocritical in light of the preaching that comes from the fundamental Right.

There's been talk here about the message it would give if he was pardoned...well, what about the message that screams "You shouldn't kill people, so to show you this is a bad thing to do, we'll kill you!".

It's absolutely insane nonsense.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
As usual, there's a lot of ignorance on display in this thread.......yadda yadda

this behavior by the US government is despicable, barbaric and hyprocritical in light of the preaching that comes from the fundamental Right.
It's absolutely insane nonsense.

Nonsense?
Well, so is the notion coming from Michael Moore, Hollywood, and the political left that guns are bad and kill people, yet the rich and famous and poiliticians should be allowed to carry one for their personal safety.

Apparently guns are bad unless Michael More says so...

Then the left professes that it has and preaches religious tolerance, yet shows none for Christians.

So is their notion that they value life so much, yet think nothing of abortion.

Not to mention the fact that the same politicians who speak out in favor of self defense in one's home are the same ones who then vote to make it a federal felony for someone to kill an armed and violent home intruder who wants to kill your whole family for 5 bucks in a cookie jar.

The criminal has more rights than the victim these days. Thank the left and their allies for that one the next time Martha Stewart gets off of her inside trading deal when people like you and me go to jail 5 years for doing the same thing....

Originally posted by Dagons Blade
Nonsense

At least you acknowledge that you're not making any sense...

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
At least you acknowledge that you're not making any sense...

Yeah and at least YOU acknowledge that your reply is a cop out for the stuff I mentioned above. Can you deny what I said and prove that I'm wrong? Can you NOT disprove the hypocrisy of the left as well as the right?

Apparently not because you're concentrating on me and not the issue at hand. Your name should be WhoFlungPoo because you're about as full of the brown and stinky as you accuse others of being.

Get over yourself dude, it's a two way street.

There was nothing but more drivel in your last post, so I'll return to your first line of drool...

Originally posted by Dagons Blade
Well, so is the notion coming from Michael Moore, Hollywood, and the political left that guns are bad and kill people, yet the rich and famous and poiliticians should be allowed to carry one for their personal safety.

This is a childish 'observation' fed to you by Murdoch and his affiliates. Are you full yet?



What was that I just said?



I agree that equality should reign supreme, but if you've ever considered why affirmative action was needed, then you should be able to comprehend why their is little tolerance shown towards a powerful group of fundamentalists who have key players in key positions of power. Whether these politicians use Christianity as a campaign ally, there can be no doubt. However, what about all the Christians who fool(intentional...) for this?



I value life, but I also value the right to choose. Absolutes are the speciality of a fundamentalist group who are unable to comprehend that the world is made up of billions of individuals, not one great herd. Baaa...



Woah! You hate Hollywood, but you can conjure up plot lines like this? Oh, right...It is more suited to daytime TV...



Yeah, thank us because we're the ones who set her free, whilst a Republican sits in the White House...

Now, my child...please try to hold your food down, as I'm a little dirty from cleaning up all your mess.

This was your original post...What made you think that your edited version was better? Did it seem snappier? Has it got more 'piz-azz'?



I guess we could call that ^ a 'regurgitation'...haw-haw.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
This was your original post...What made you think that your edited version was better? Did it seem snappier? Has it got more 'piz-azz'?



I guess we could call that ^ a 'regurgitation'...haw-haw.

No I did it so YOUR simple mind could understand it better. Haw haw.

I mean, I don't want you giving me too much a piece of your mind on this issue, because I really wouldn't want to take the last bit you have..

Oh and make sure you clean it all up, wil you? That's what we pay you for here at KM.

Originally posted by Dagons Blade
No I did it so YOUR simple mind could understand it better. Haw haw.

I mean, I don't want you giving me too much a piece of your mind on this issue, because I really wouldn't want to take the last bit you have..

Oh and make sure you clean it all up, wil you? That's what we pay you for here at KM.

My mommy told me that 'imitation is the highest form of flattery'...

I'm blushing right now. Thank you.

I accept your withdrawal from this debate on the grounds of you having nothing to stand on. You're right...You really are an idiot.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo


Whether these politicians use Christianity as a campaign ally, there can be no doubt. However, what about all the Christians who fool(intentional...) for this?

Oh yes I know, Christians are the only ones who fool people, while Muslims make us believe they have peace and love in their hearts and turn around and murder 3,000 people from all walks of life in one day under the guise of them all being 'American' for chasing American values.

They they continue to terrorize people who refuse to convert to their way of thinking. So much for equality and fooling people?



Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo

I value life, but I also value the right to choose. Absolutes are the speciality of a fundamentalist group who are unable to comprehend that the world is made up of billions of individuals, not one great herd.

Well all I'm saying is that 30 million some kids have been deprived of the right to live and be someone, as opposed to the Gun Deaths that the Democrats ***** about so much. What's worse, dying in the prime of your life, or dying before you had a chance to actually live and be someone?






Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
eah, thank us because we're the ones who set her free, whilst a Republican sits in the White House...

Yeah, and than Ted Kennedy for his anti-gun stance, when HIS car killed more people that most guns in America right now. He talks about how bad guns are and yet he gets off the charge of alcohol induced vehicular manslaughter with the help of his lawyer, (and also because he's a Kennedy, the most influential and powerful family in Massachusetts.) But that had nothing to do with it, DID it now?

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo Now, my child...please try to hold your food down, as I'm a little dirty from cleaning up all your mess.

Well dude, takes one to clean one up. The street runs both ways. Here take a Kleenex and wipe some of that nut off of your chin....it was good, but you're not getting my Bud Lite...

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
My mommy told me that 'imitation is the highest form of flattery'...

I'm blushing right now. Thank you.

I aim to please, now here, wipe that last load off of your chin, will you? The tryouts for "There's Something About Mary 2" were cancelled.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo


I don't need you to speak for me...I never called myself an idiot. That was YOUR wording. Nice try dude. Oh and as far as me being an Idiot, that's an "American Idiot" right? Another Green Day fanboy I suppose?

Dude, I love how people like you withdraw on the grounds of incompetence on the other side...that's a nice way of saying that you won the battle but lost the war. Quitter.

Oh and one other thing there, Floo'.

You say I accuse you Democrats of setting criminals free when a Republican sits in the White House? Yeah well with regard to Ted Kennedy's hypocritical gun stance in light of his underwater driving follies, I'll remind you that Kennedy is a Democrat....

Originally posted by Dagons Blade
Oh yes I know, Christians are the only ones who fool people, while Muslims make us believe they have peace and love in their hearts and turn around and murder 3,000 people from all walks of life in one day under the guise of them all being 'American' for chasing American values.

They they continue to terrorize people who refuse to convert to their way of thinking. So much for equality and fooling people?

Wow. People like you are real? Huh...crazy.



What I love about children like you is that you can be told quite plainly the basis of a belief - it's about choice - yet still fail to grasp the concept...Anyway, don't Christians always go on about the big guy giving you free will? Uh-oh...someone's not been paying attention in bible class...



And then I was walking around in circles for days and days and days...
"Hello, Mr. Shoe!"
"Good day, sir! The weather is fine..."
"Why certainly! A splendid day for a walk, care to join me?"
Then, I woke up and it was all a dream...



Thanks. I'll take the Kleenex, but it's not for my chin...It's to stuff up your bum-bum because I'm tired of hearing it talk.

Good-night, Timmy. I'll leave the light on so the monsters don't get you...

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Wow. People like you are real? Huh...crazy.

Takes one to know one don't it? Welcome to the club.



Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Thanks. I'll take the Kleenex, but it's not for my chin...It's to stuff up your bum-bum because I'm tired of hearing it talk.

Good-night, Timmy. I'll leave the light on so the monsters don't get you...

Good night, John Boy. And I do mean 'boy.'

As far as stuffing the Kleenex up my bum, is that so you have something to remember me by every time you masturbate?

Oh I'm so flattered. I'll give you a matching set of socks too.

You started this by calling everything I had to say nonsense, and then take a shit when you get it back? Should have thought about that before you decided to do it.

Originally posted by Dagons Blade
Takes one to know one don't it? Welcome to the club.

You've got to be no older than 14...



Remember what I said about your failure to grasp a simple concept? Apply it here, but add a dose of Freud, and you're starting to worry my girlfriend...I told her my college days are behind me! I was just experimenting...



I think I over-estimated with that guess of 14...

Oh by the way Floo Poo-the socks are no big mystery, those are for your foot fetish...and I threw them in to show you I'm a fair man.

Did I make an ass out of you? Ohhh, I'm sorry. If there's enough material left over, I'll make another one out of you when we get home.

A little respect for an opposing POV could have prevented this. We all have a right to an opposing POV. But because I happen to be on the Right, dosen't mean I'm wrong and it dosen't mean that my POV is automatically nonsense. Think before you speak next time. Peace out.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
You've got to be no older than 14...

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
I think I over-estimated with that guess of 14...

QUOTE=5556045]Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Remember what I said about your failure to grasp a simple concept? Apply it here, but add a dose of Freud, and you're starting to worry my girlfriend...I told her my college days are behind me! I was just experimenting...

Ask your girlfriend how old I am, you'll be suprised And then remember what Freud said about juvenile sexuality and remember that the next time you mention me and your girlfriend in the same sentence. Oh and you can drop by and pick up her front hook bra any time you like. I'm always home

Dude you lose. Go home. Oh and if you want that reference for the job of Police Commissioner in Beirut, you've got it. Contact me or I'll send the reference home with sweetie pie the next time she visits me....when it comes to insults, you're a lightweight.

Are you really denying that you're talking nonsense in light of your last 10 posts?!?!?! Considering Bush's mantra about 'staying on message', you really are playing 'Follow The Leader'. What a shame the leader is a moron...wait a second! Ohhhhhhh, now I understand.

I'm done with this lame game. If you still need your botty smacked, ask me via PM...

Apologies to Inspectah Deck for letting myself indulge in Child's Play in public. I'll come and teach Dagon in his kindergarten next time...

EDIT: Oh, dear. He appears to be 42 years old...How sad.

Oh for heavens GIVE IT A REST!

You're both acting like immature idiiots.

This person who was excuted may have written childrens books etc, but it should also be noted that he also never showed a single bit of remorse for the 4 human lives he took.

you dont know that. just as i dont. maybe he did, maybe he didnt,

but the guy has served his sentence and so there really is no reason to
hate him anymore.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
I'm done with this lame game. If you still need your botty smacked, ask me via PM...

Nah, your little lady does that just fine, just the way I like it too, with hot oil and a number 2 spatula. You sweet talker you,Betty Crocker...

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Apologies to Inspectah Deck for letting myself indulge in Child's Play in public. I'll come and teach Dagon in his kindergarten next time......

Hey if you feel the need to go to kindergarten at your age, then I fear for you. There again you might actually find a date, so it's up to you. Either that or you can fall back on your annual family reunions to meet women, so it's your choice.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Oh, dear. He appears to be 42 years old...How sad.

Even sadder that I can please your woman more than YOU can. At my age too. And w\o that purple little pill too...

I had a feeling that the little Golden Book of "The Marshmallow And The Coin Slot" was placed next to your space at the dinner table for a reason. Now I know why.


PM me? haven't you had enough? I swear, some people...

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
Oh for heavens GIVE IT A REST!

Hey, I ain't even broke a sweat yet...thanks for your concerns over my health though. I'm doin' fine on level 9, baby. Happy Holidays

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
You're both acting like immature idiiots.

Hy what can I say? Takes one to know one so I guess we both get a trophy. AT least SOMEONE here believes in equality.


Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
This person who was excuted may have written childrens books etc, but it should also be noted that he also never showed a single bit of remorse for the 4 human lives he took.

Thank you! That was my point before someone so rudely derailed the train of thought because he disagreed with what I said.

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
Oh for heavens GIVE IT A REST!

You're both acting like immature idiiots.

^^^^^^^^^^

Dragons Blade and Ya Krunk'd Floo no more of that bickering. The two of you are talking about maturity and none of you have shown any in your posts. Enough of the personal comments towards each other.

Originally posted by PVS
you dont know that. just as i dont. maybe he did, maybe he didnt,

but the guy has served his sentence and so there really is no reason to
hate him anymore.

First of all I dont hate him, I dont anything him, the man means nothing to me.

And regarding your first point that was actually established as fact. It was one of the reasons given as to why his clemency was denied time and again. Even the gal who spent all these years corresponding with him said as much.

Originally posted by PVS
you dont know that. just as i dont. maybe he did, maybe he didnt,

but the guy has served his sentence and so there really is no reason to
hate him anymore.

Thats why most people get either life in prison or the death penalty because MAYBE they committed crimes.....just maybe.

Originally posted by soleran30
Thats why most people get either life in prison or the death penalty because MAYBE they committed crimes.....just maybe.

try reading the conversation before you throw in your response, MAYBE that would be wise....just maybe. FYI i was responding to a post which stated that he had no remorse for his crime, and i was making a point that we dont know that.

kthx

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
First of all I dont hate him, I dont anything him, the man means nothing to me.

And regarding your first point that was actually established as fact. It was one of the reasons given as to why his clemency was denied time and again. Even the gal who spent all these years corresponding with him said as much.

i should have clarified, my bad.
the statement on hating the guy was general and aimed at the inevitable celebratory posts. i should have stressed that or gave pause in some way,
but anyway it wasnt aimed at you.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
I'm done with this lame game. If you still need your botty smacked, ask me via PM...

Apologies to Inspectah Deck for letting myself indulge in Child's Play in public. I'll come and teach Dagon in his kindergarten next time...

EDIT: Oh, dear. He appears to be 42 years old...How sad.



Looks like Tookie is dead

'I Watched a Man Die Today'

By Steve Lopez / Los Angeles Times

SAN QUENTIN -- It's just past midnight, and another Crip is on his way to the graveyard.

Stanley Tookie Williams, who shotgunned four people to death a quarter of a century ago and couldn't sell the story of his redemption to anyone who mattered, took a lethal shot in the arm and closed his eyes for good.

I watched him die from 12 feet away. The execution team struggled to tap a vein, and Williams raised his head as if to question their competence. He also looked at supporters and exchanged final words with them before the drugs kicked in and he was gone.

Nothing I saw made me feel any differently about Williams, the Crip co-founder whose legacy is terrorized neighborhoods and a chorus of weeping mothers.

His anti-violence books and speeches were too little, too late, and the mythologizing of him was as unconvincing as the Nobel nominations.

But his execution was a macabre spectacle in a nation that preaches godly virtue to the world while resisting a global march away from the Medieval practice of capital punishment.

I would have had no problem leaving Williams locked up with his regrets and haunted by his deeds for the rest of his natural life.

I watched a man die today, killed by the state of California with institutional resolve, and wondered what we gained.

If there is a heaven and hell...he will be in hell.

Who wouldn't?

Heaven would probably be giving seats away just for the publicity.

-AC

Snoop Dogg made a video as a tribute to Tookie

Originally posted by Inspectah Deck
Snoop Dogg made a video as a tribute to Tookie

Snoop Dogg, another pillar of society.

That was a good post PVS.

I am amazed right now how tookie has become a media darling. I just saw a teenage kid this afternoon in a canadian suburb wearing a "save tookie" t-shirt.

This world is so messed I wonder if it is beyond retrieval.

interesting post PVS. my comments are not directed at you, but rather are generated by the article:

<<I would have had no problem leaving Williams locked up with his regrets and haunted by his deeds for the rest of his natural life.>>

and if he HAD no regrets? felt no remorse whatsoever? what then? is it fair to continue to have the public pay to keep him locked up for another 30 years?

<<I watched a man die today, killed by the state of California with institutional resolve, and wondered what we gained.>>

what makes him think it's about GAINING anything? speaking of gaining, what did the families of the people whom he murdered gain over these last bunch of years while tookie was able to go about living his life and actually becoming a HERO to many?

<<This world is so messed I wonder if it is beyond retrieval.>>

it does make you wonder sometimes . . .

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Snoop Dogg, another pillar of society.

That was a good post PVS.

I am amazed right now how tookie has become a media darling. I just saw a teenage kid this afternoon in a canadian suburb wearing a "save tookie" t-shirt.

This world is so messed I wonder if it is beyond retrieval.

Like those "Free Yayo" shirts

Seeing as dear ol' Dagon was unable to even attempt to answer any of the questions that I raised, here they are again for your consideration:

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
What does it say about a society when a person can reform, show evidence of that reform, show contrition for his deeds (in regards to his life as a crip), yet ultimately be dealt exactly the same punishment as the one he committed? How can a human being be judged in absolutes that refuse to recognise the rehabilitation of man, regardless of what he has done? He was convicted of the crimes he was tried for, so I'm not debating that, but this behavior by the US government is despicable, barbaric and hyprocritical in light of the preaching that comes from the fundamental Right.

There's been talk here about the message it would give if he was pardoned...well, what about the message that screams "You shouldn't kill people, so to show you this is a bad thing to do, we'll kill you!".

Originally posted by leonidas
what makes him think it's about GAINING anything? speaking of gaining, what did the families of the people whom he murdered gain over these last bunch of years while tookie was able to go about living his life and actually becoming a HERO to many?

Interesting point. Wonder how his victim's family's feel about the hero worship thing happening now?

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Seeing as dear ol' Dagon was unable to even attempt to answer any of the questions that I raised, here they are again for your consideration:

The problem with that, although I agree mostly, is that people will always follow the thought pattern:

Murderer = Deserves to be "put to death" (aka murdered).

Most people won't hear anything else.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The problem with that, although I agree mostly, is that people will always follow the thought pattern:

Murderer = Deserves to be "put to death" (aka murdered).

Most people won't hear anything else.

-AC

thats how i feel.
there are idiots who make him a hero.
i just take serious issue with murdering the murderer.
the death penalty has never worked in deterring crime,
nor will it ever work. forget about the message sent to
gangs by not killing this guy. think about the message we
send to the world by still enforcing murder.

Personally it makes me feel a little bit sick to think that- regardless of crime- the subject of this thread was alive at its incipience, and has since been legally put to death by the government.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The problem with that, although I agree mostly, is that people will always follow the thought pattern:

Murderer = Deserves to be "put to death" (aka murdered).

Most people won't hear anything else.

That's the 'nonsense' that I'm talking about...How can you condem a crime while committing the same crime as a form of punishment? It's so Orwellian that sometimes I wonder whether we are stuck in a 'Groundhog Day'-esque version of the fictional 1984...

I'd love to actually read a sane response to this paradox by someone who believes in capital punishment...

If life is highly regarded, capital punishment is anathema. If life is regarded as of little importance, then capital punishment is unnecessary.

I can only see a way out of that in a general nihilism.

I been reading this quotes:

When Sims asked Williams why he shot Owens, Williams said he "didn't want to leave any witnesses."

Williams also said he killed Owens "because he was white and he was killing all white people."

Later that same day, Williams bragged to his brother Wayne about killing Owens. Williams said, "you should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him." Williams then made gurgling or growling noises and laughed hysterically about Owens' death.

Since movies were mention earlier. I might as well mention Natural Born Killers taught me that we should never make celebreties out of murders.

On the subject of death penalty. You opinion is your own people. And no matter how much you're agaisn't it or supportive....Tookie is gone.

i hear a great deal of anti-capital punishment sentiment expressed. i'm curious -- what do you all propose we do instead? keep them confined in overpopulated, tax-payer funded institutions? release them? 'rehabilitate' them? how? a LARGE percentage of people in prisons are repeat offenders -- prisons are unsuccessful in the vast majority of cases at rehabilitating individuals.

in the grand scheme of morality, is it that much less immoral to with-hold someone's freedom for their entire life (while having good people PAY for that removal of freedoms) than it is to put them to death? are we not simply turning them into zoo animals and locking them up in conditions that only propagate negative behavior?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The problem with that, although I agree mostly, is that people will always follow the thought pattern:

Murderer = Deserves to be "put to death" (aka murdered).

Most people won't hear anything else.

-AC

To my understanding, it supposedly works like this: justice = equity under the law. If you kill, the only 'equal' punishment is to be killed. A sort of "eye for an eye" mentality.

Originally posted by WindDancer
When Sims asked Williams why he shot Owens, Williams said he "didn't want to leave any witnesses."

Williams also said he killed Owens "because he was white and he was killing all white people."

Later that same day, Williams bragged to his brother Wayne about killing Owens. Williams said, "you should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him." Williams then made gurgling or growling noises and laughed hysterically about Owens' death.


Those are definitley quotes made by a Nobel worthy candidate. WTF?

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Those are definitley quotes made by a Nobel worthy candidate. WTF?

Sources:

http://crime.about.com/od/deathrow/a/tookie2.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Williams

Originally posted by Wanderer259
To my understanding, it supposedly works like this: justice = equity under the law. If you kill, the only 'equal' punishment is to be killed. A sort of "eye for an eye" mentality.

True

Reaping and sowing.....Law of action with reactions

Originally posted by Wanderer259
To my understanding, it supposedly works like this: justice = equity under the law. If you kill, the only 'equal' punishment is to be killed. A sort of "eye for an eye" mentality.

That's the principle of civil law.

Originally posted by leonidas
in the grand scheme of morality, is it that much less immoral to with-hold someone's freedom for their entire life (while having good people PAY for that removal of freedoms) than it is to put them to death? are we not simply turning them into zoo animals and locking them up in conditions that only propagate negative behavior?

Of course it's less immoral. No morals are lacking in imprisoning a person to prevent harm to the greater public. That's a simple equation of harm against harm.

Killing doesn't really slip into that equation comfortably. We can't just say 'might as well kill them then'.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Those are definitley quotes made by a Nobel worthy candidate. WTF?

Indeed.

After 24 years on Death Row, I guess they were like

"Two decades on death row? **** that shit"

And executed him

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
That's the principle of civil law.



Of course it's less immoral. No morals are lacking in imprisoning a person to prevent harm to the greater public. That's a simple equation of harm against harm.

Killing doesn't really slip into that equation comfortably. We can't just say 'might as well kill them then'.

I didn't state the quote you're referring to in the second paragraph.

Originally posted by Wanderer259
I didn't state the quote you're referring to in the second paragraph.

I forgot to edit it- I've changed it.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Reaping and sowing.....Law of action with reactions

The first one of those is farming, the latter is science.

If you'd like to provide one regarding capital punishment, there is still time.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Seeing as dear ol' Dagon was unable to even attempt to answer any of the questions

I would have, if you didn't jump in with all this shit about the hypocrisy of the right, and then shit when I gave you an earful about the left and THEIR little divorces from reality as well. Again. Right off the bat everything I said was nonsense, and you started it by throwing me the ball. Hopefully the is time It'll be better. I for one am over it and ready to move on.

What questions? The man murdered 4 people and laughed about it,and glorified killing white people (not to mention anyone who stood in his way regardless of color.) Yeah, OK. Killing in return might not be the answer, (to YOU) and it won't stop crime, but that's one less we have to worry about. And if he gets free and does it again, then people will scream "why did he get released"? Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

If people are talking about a civil society following the archaic code of ethics that states 'An eye for an eye', then who will equate the killing of Tookie by the US government?

This is the eternal problem of the 'eye for an eye' mentality; the killing continues because another death is another miscarriage of justice that somone will attempt to equate.

i think it is more a lack of a good, successful alternative. those against cp rarely have suggestions to offer to FIX the problem, or address the problems at hand.

i'm not necessarily FOR cp, i'm more against the alternatives and am fully aware of the flaws of cp. seriously though, what are viable alternatives?

Originally posted by leonidas
i think it is more a lack of a good, successful alternative. those against cp rarely have suggestions to offer to FIX the problem, or address the problems at hand.

i'm not necessarily FOR cp, i'm more against the alternatives and am fully aware of the flaws of cp. seriously though, what are viable alternatives?

Not killing people?

What is needed? A monumental shift in society's ideology that presently conditions people to think that money, money, money is the answer to all of life's woes. Then, once that misconception is corrected, the task of bringing true equality should begin and the education of our children to let them understand that race really shouldn't be an issue as the color of the blood we live with and shed is the same.

Now, I'm going to float away on these clouds here...

Originally posted by leonidas
i think it is more a lack of a good, successful alternative. those against cp rarely have suggestions to offer to FIX the problem, or address the problems at hand.

i'm not necessarily FOR cp, i'm more against the alternatives and am fully aware of the flaws of cp. seriously though, what are viable alternatives?

What is CP?

Originally posted by Dagons Blade
Killing in return might not be the answer, (to YOU) and it won't stop crime, but that's one less we have to worry about. And if he gets free and does it again, then people will scream "why did he get released"? Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

Quite confused by this.

What I'm getting from this, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that there is no point keeping him alive?

This is what I meant in the other thread. Most people who are pro-death penalty are of such a stance because of vengeance, not justice.

Nobody spoke about freeing the man, just not killing him. If you acknowledge it's not the answer and not going to solve anything, what is the point?

-AC

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
What does it say about a society when a person can reform, show evidence of that reform, show contrition for his deeds (in regards to his life as a crip), yet ultimately be dealt exactly the same punishment as the one he committed? How can a human being be judged in absolutes that refuse to recognise the rehabilitation of man, regardless of what he has done? He was convicted of the crimes he was tried for, so I'm not debating that, but this behavior by the US government is despicable, barbaric and hyprocritical in light of the preaching that comes from the fundamental Right.

There's been talk here about the message it would give if he was pardoned...well, what about the message that screams "You shouldn't kill people, so to show you this is a bad thing to do, we'll kill you!".

OK, I'll TRY to answer for you, and whether or not it's good enough for you, whatever. You have your opinion, I have mine. I don't need your personal seal of approval for my opinions.

Proof of Rehabilitation. WHAT rehabilitation? He never apologized for killing those people, laughed and bragged about his one victim's cries as they died, and refuses to admit this day that he was wrong, seeing it as his duty to the Crips. Sounds reformed to me...

Now, if you're talking about an individual basis, I will agree with you. Not EVERY inmate is incorrigible. And TRUE rehabilitation should be rewarded properly. But proof has to be given. Truths need to be satisfied. You just don't "let" someone go because your heart or mind tells you it's the right thing to do..you need proof. Good intentions are not enough. Neither are a few kids books on gang violence..

You have to realize there is NO reform for some of these guys:

Some of these guys are hardcore badasses who would think nothingof killing another inmate, or killing a guard or officer. And some continue to kill despite lockup because they have nothing to lose.

Are we supposed to guys like this continue killing on the inside as well? But I suppose it's OK if he kills other inmates because then regardless of right or left views on the issue, everyone's happy because they're offing each other and doing the world a favor, right?

How do you feel about inmates who continue to be a problem?

Once the judicial system of the world has detained, incarcerated and subdued these criminals, job is done. Whatever happens on the inside is not the responsibility of anyone else. Not saying it's right, but in that case it's the inmates that are killing. Not the government who condemn them for such actions.

The judicial system killing as a reply to killing is hypocritical. The idea of jail is to protect innocent people.

-AC

If anything, in this case it was highly counter-productive if the man is/was now having a positive effect on society.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Quite confused by this.

What I'm getting from this, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that there is no point keeping him alive?

This is what I meant in the other thread. Most people who are pro-death penalty are of such a stance because of vengeance, not justice.

Nobody spoke about freeing the man, just not killing him. If you acknowledge it's not the answer and not going to solve anything, what is the point?

-AC

What I meant, is that if he stays alive, and gets released,
and continues to kill after he's released, then the first people who will be screaming "we should have never freed him" will be the ones who wanted us to free him in the first place because they bought his reform stories.

They yell "free the man" and then yell " I knew it we shoulda' never done it" when and if the person kills again on the outside.

Now in jail, yeah you can keep him, and what if he kills in jail? And if they continue to kill and present a threat to the guards and the general populace..you have to realize not every criminal is capable of reform.

The ones inside the jail, guard and inmate alike, are people too. They have a right to safety as well. And when you get these hardcore badasses who think a life is nothing, you're putting others in danger as well.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Once the judicial system of the world has detained, incarcerated and subdued these criminals, job is done. Whatever happens on the inside is not the responsibility of anyone else. Not saying it's right, but in that case it's the inmates that are killing. Not the government who condemn them for such actions.

The judicial system killing as a reply to killing is hypocritical. The idea of jail is to protect innocent people.

-AC

Yeah and the guards and the inmates have a right to be safe as well. How would you feel if you had a loved one or relative who was a jail guard, (say, your father for example) and you found out that he was killed by an inmate? Would it then be your case that 'whatever happens on the inside happens' or would you feel something had to be done?

Regardless of your accusations of "speaking for you" in an earlier thread, I don't think that there aren't too many people who would feel opposite the way you do if a loved one was taken away from them by someone else who was assumed to no longer be a threat to society.

I think the people who were against his execution kinda shot themselves in the foot. Their whole "He's innocent, he didn't do it he didn't kill anyone" act was glaringly hollow. He was in the bloods, or crips, or whatever, he was the LEADER, and in 20+ years of counter trials and investigation there was never any counter evidence to the evidence that allowed him to be found guilty in the first place. Also the whole pulitzer prize thing was really stupid.

Whether or not he deserved to die is up for grabs, different opinions, yaddah yaddah. However, they took the wrong road in going against it by trying to paint him as some kind of saint. It was foolish on their part and backfired.

Originally posted by Dagons Blade
What I meant, is that if he stays alive, and gets released,
and continues to kill after he's released, then the first people who will be screaming "we should have never freed him" will be the ones who wanted us to free him in the first place because they bought his reform stories.

They yell "free the man" and then yell " I knew it we shoulda' never done it" when and if the person kills again on the outside.

Now in jail, yeah you can keep him, and what if he kills in jail? And if they continue to kill and present a threat to the guards and the general populace..you have to realize not every criminal is capable of reform.

The ones inside the jail, guard and inmate alike, are people too. They have a right to safety as well. And when you get these hardcore badasses who think a life is nothing, you're putting others in danger as well.

Wow, where to start. The first chunk of this quote deals with those who believe he should be freed, I'm not necessarily one of those. So it doesn't apply to me.

If it's a choice between the government protecting people outside of jail or the people inside, I'll choose outside. Moreover, how can you speak for the rights and safety of inmates and stand by the death penalty? That's not the safest option, death, is it?

Originally posted by Dagons Blade
Yeah and the guards and the inmates have a right to be safe as well. How would you feel if you had a loved one or relative who was a jail guard, (say, your father for example) and you found out that he was killed by an inmate? Would it then be your case that 'whatever happens on the inside happens' or would you feel something had to be done?

Regardless of your accusations of "speaking for you" in an earlier thread, I don't think that there aren't too many people who would feel opposite the way you do if a loved one was taken away from them by someone else who was assumed to no longer be a threat to society.

My dad isn't stupid enough to want to be the guy who keeps dangerous people in check and has to subdue them if they get out of line, so I don't have that problem to worry about. Not saying those people deserve to be harmed, but that it's not exactly as though you don't know what you're in for by working there. It's like being a gardener on a minefield.

-AC

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
If anything, in this case it was highly counter-productive if the man is/was now having a positive effect on society.

But, as I pointed out earlier, what better example could he make for those he wants to save from gangs...than being put to death?

I mean, if we want to pretend that anyone who is a prime target for becoming a gang member (inner city youths that don't do well in school, or life for that matter) will remember either him, the man, or what he did after being sent to jail...then we're fooling ourselves.

You know, let's just put it this way:

Jail and reform are a mutual deal. You do the time, and the system will do it's best to ensure you that jail is hell, and you'll want to reform and get the hell out as soon as possible.

If an inmate keeps his part of the deal, fine. he Should be rewarded when all possible proof has been exhaustively satisifed.

But to the ones who don't live up to their end, and continue their ways, the system has no promise, and the punishment is up to them.

There's no guarantee that you'll be set free, just as there is no guarantee that the inmate will change. Inside, or outside of prison, life is what you make it.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

My dad isn't stupid enough to want to be the guy who keeps dangerous people in check and has to subdue them if they get out of line, so I don't have that problem to worry about. Not saying those people deserve to be harmed, but that it's not exactly as though you don't know what you're in for by working there. It's like being a gardener on a minefield.

-AC

So now law enforcement officers are stupid by protecting and serving?

I guess you should just go ahead and spit on the police, the peace officers, and others who serve and sometimes give their lives. And
you just said it..the fact that they know what they might be in for makes them even that more special, and a breed apart.

Impediment is a correction officer in Texas.
So now you just called him stupid too. Thanks for caring.

From the military to internal and external law enforcement, we are free and safe in our homes because of the exertions of men and women much better than we could ever be. So while you're not American, try showing respect for the people in your own backyard who give it all they have to keep people free everywhere, because they're the reason why you and I are here.

And you talk about respecting other people....

Originally posted by Dagons Blade
So now law enforcement officers are stupid by protecting and serving?

I guess you should just go ahead and spit on the police, the peace officers, and others who serve and sometimes give their lives. And
you just said it..the fact that they know what they might be in for makes them even that more special, and a breed apart.

Impediment is a correction officer in Texas.
So now you just called him stupid too. Thanks for caring.

From the military to internal and external law enforcement, we are free and safe in our homes because of the exertions of men and women much better than we could ever be. So while you're not American, try showing respect for the people in your own backyard who give it all they have to keep people free everywhere, because they're the reason why you and I are here.

And you talk about respecting other people....

I don't think that's what he's saying....

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
But, as I pointed out earlier, what better example could he make for those he wants to save from gangs...than being put to death?

I mean, if we want to pretend that anyone who is a prime target for becoming a gang member (inner city youths that don't do well in school, or life for that matter) will remember either him, the man, or what he did after being sent to jail...then we're fooling ourselves.

It wasn't based on reputation though, as I understand, he was actively helping.

The death penalty doesn't discourage crime at all, that's been factually proven countless times.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
It wasn't based on reputation though, as I understand, he was actively helping.

The death penalty doesn't discourage crime at all, that's been factually proven countless times.

First, if it has been proven...then that's great. I'm less concerned with the death penalty preventing crime from others...as much as I am with it preventing crime from a single person. Namely, the guy being put down.

And by saying it prevents nothing, then you are kinda proving my point. The people who should be influenced by his execution will get no benefit from it...wheter he's offed or not.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
First, if it has been proven...then that's great. I'm less concerned with the death penalty preventing crime from others...as much as I am with it preventing crime from a single person. Namely, the guy being put down.

Well, obviously he can't commit crime from beyond the grave. He also can't while incarcerated- I suppose that comes down to a capital punishment argument again, which has been done to death, no pun intended.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic

And by saying it prevents nothing, then you are kinda proving my point. The people who should be influenced by his execution will get no benefit from it...wheter he's offed or not.

He was having an influence by being alive though- he was actively helping. I don't suggest they'll benefit from him being spared, but from the possible influence he had.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
It wasn't based on reputation though, as I understand, he was actively helping.

The death penalty doesn't discourage crime at all, that's been factually proven countless times.

And while not on topic, Gun Bans and removal of personal firearm ownership does nothing to impact black market weapons or violent crime either. Scholars and law professors have proven that.

Banning alcohol did nothing-Prohibition was rolled by the Speak Easy's.

Back to Death Penalty. Maybe it dosen't discourage violent crime, but there have to be those out there who will think twice about it knowing it's the preferred option.

Originally posted by Dagons Blade
And while not on topic, Gun Bans and removal of personal firearm ownership does nothing to impact black market weapons or violent crime either. Scholars and law professors have proven that.

Banning alcohol did nothing-Prohibition was rolled by the Speak Easy's.

Back to Death Penalty. Maybe it dosen't discourage violent crime, but there have to be those out there who will think twice about it knowing it's the preferred option.

That's not the case though, because crime isn't reduced by the death penalty. It's a baseless speculation. Nobody thinks twice because crime doesn't go down.