Iceman vs Flash

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



ZephroCarnelian
Both have some degree of control over kinetic energy:

Iceman can take it away.

Flash can give AND take away.

------------

Who wins? Debate.

Draco69
This has been done already. Flash consistently faces a foe who can induce tempetures of absolute zero...and freezing has absolutely no effect on the Flash.

golem370
He freeze his feet with tons of Ice.

Draco69
He'll just vibrate his way out. And I seriously doubt Iceman can react to a man who's literally at times a living beam of light.

Iceman: *shatters*

Iceman: What the **** was that?!

Flash: This is gonna take some imagination...

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Draco69
He'll just vibrate his way out. And I seriously doubt Iceman can react to a man who's literally at times a living beam of light.

Iceman: *shatters*

Iceman: What the **** was that?!

Flash: This is gonna take some imagination...

Flash. Without even trying too hard.

GODSCRIBE
Flash

Juntai
Flash.

NoFate007
Good ol' Wally. Both are still awesome though.

LordKaos
can't iceman just reconstruct himself from ambient water molecules if he's shattered? flash would have to shatter him, and then create enough friction to totally evaporate all moisture in the battlefield, including the moisture in his own body, effectively killing himself.

jrodslam
Stalemate.

Superherovandal
he steals all his speed effectively turning Iceman into an icestatue. then uses his speed to send him into space at lightspeed making Ice Man inert.

botcherby
couldn't Iceman freeze the blood flow to the Flash's brain?

LordKaos
what? he can't steal speed from icemans mind, if he can activate his power from a shattered or liquid state i'm sure using them in the form of an ice statue is no problem, since he is just an ice statue that can move and talk most of the time anyway. what would keep iceman from bonding his consciouness with clouds on the way to space, they are made primarily of water.

jrodslam
Originally posted by botcherby
couldn't Iceman freeze the blood flow to the Flash's brain?

Flash is faster than thought.

Although Iceman would know Flash is faster than Quicksilver or Northstar, his best bet would probably be to flash freeze the entire area. That will definately throw Wally off guard and slow him down.

However, when/if Wally hits Bobby, he can/will punch him to bits. Wally wont know Booby can exists as vapor. Thats the only chance Iceman gets at freezing Flash's blood.

If that doesnt happen, stalemate.

LordKaos
if flash is faster than thought, does that mean he moves before he thinks? how does he ever know what he is doing or going to do? or does the speed force make his thoughts faster than normal thoughts so that he can think and move, but then that would mean he's not faster than thought

Swanky-Tuna
Originally posted by LordKaos
if flash is faster than thought, does that mean he moves before he thinks? how does he ever know what he is doing or going to do? or does the speed force make his thoughts faster than normal thoughts so that he can think and move, but then that would mean he's not faster than thought
He's faster than OTHERS' thoughts.

LordKaos
how convenient roll eyes (sarcastic)

Dark Urizen
Originally posted by LordKaos
what? he can't steal speed from icemans mind, if he can activate his power from a shattered or liquid state i'm sure using them in the form of an ice statue is no problem, since he is just an ice statue that can move and talk most of the time anyway. what would keep iceman from bonding his consciouness with clouds on the way to space, they are made primarily of water.

Stealing speed = stealing kinetic energy. No kinetic energy - no motion of electricity in Bobby;s brain, effectively stealing speed from his mind. So yeah, Wally can "freeze" Bobby in time.

Juntai
Can he still do the whole existing in and controlling any and all moisture in the atmosphere and spreading of the conscious and stuff since he lost his second mutation?
I thought he was back to being regular old iceman....
Who Flash would easily defeat.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Juntai
Can he still do the whole existing in and controlling any and all moisture in the atmosphere and spreading of the conscious and stuff since he lost his second mutation?

Yea he can.

LordKaos
if bobby's organic ice form is anything like sandman or hydromans respective quasi organic states then it is presumed that his consciousness exists on the astral plane where speed, motion and time have no power, so he wouldn't need brain impulses to form a thought

Blair Wind
been done before...I think it ended as a stalemate, because even tho flash would physically whip him, he couldnd actually hurt him in vapor form (and since he wouldnt know he couldnt create a tornado to keep him busy)....

but my theory is that if the flash does that, and Bobby does go vaporish, and Flash thinks the fights done when its not, Bobby flash freezes him and its a done deal....

Metalmanx
Almost, cept for the fact that even when frozen Flash can still vibrate his molecules enough to either generate heat or phase through the ice.

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Almost, cept for the fact that even when frozen Flash can still vibrate his molecules enough to either generate heat or phase through the ice.


how would he have brain function??

jrodslam
See this is where the CIS comes in. Although Flash HAS been frozen solid by Cap. Cold, he very well could have vibrated out. I dont know why. was is shock? Beats me. As a Flash fan, it totaly upsets me that it happens, but ive gotten used to it for the simple fact that Wally hardly ever fights to his potential. Only if Linda is in immediate danger. Same can be said for Iceman with him being an Omega mutant. Fights with him should be over with a thought.

Like i said, Wally wont know that Bobby can still use his powers in vapor form. Thats the only way Iceman would have the time to even mount an attack. True his regular attacks would be way faster than Cap.Colds, because he doesnt shoot a beam that obviously comes from a gun. Bobby can create ice frrom anywhere by simply lifting a finger. I still say stalemate, but if i had to decide, i say Iceman 6/10.

Demas
Originally posted by Blair Wind
how would he have brain function??

Iceman, like Colossus, is a golem. None of their organs work like organs (typically: occasionally a writer will flub it) except in somewhat of a "magical" sense. Their lungs don't breath, but cover their "eyes" and they can't see... and yet as a vapor, Bobby can "see". It's best not to think about it too deeply residing in the realm of comic book powers logic... Flash, similarly, is able to think, sense, and perceive beyond the speed of light/information, but blessed with the Speed Force to explain it, so just accept Mutant Genes as sufficient explanation.

We can gather some precepts, though, Iceman is clearly vulnerable to psychic attack... similarly his consciousness goes where his "body" goes. This suggests that banishment-type attacks could work, such as dropping someone off in the Speed Force.

Both guys acting at their peak, completely bloodlusted, no-holds barred, Wally wins because he will pull out the big desperation moves (Time Travel or Speed Force dump- the latter more likely since he's fought elemental golems before) even before Bobby can form a thought.

Slightly more in character, but still acting at their peak, Wally busts Bobby up but doesn't go beyond that, for Bobby then, it comes down to how fast his "instant" freeze is- unfortunately we don't have a lot of measures of that- but if it's slow enough that Wally can perceive it, a peak acting Flash can avoid it as soon as the cold starts setting in- if it's too fast, then Bobby can cause cellular damage beyond Wally's healing factor and kill him... but that would be a little out of character for Bobby too.

Both completely in character, the two stalemate, Bobby unwilling to kill Flash to completely stop him, and Flash not willingly to use time-travel or speed-force banishment.

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Demas
Iceman, like Colossus, is a golem. None of their organs work like organs (typically: occasionally a writer will flub it) except in somewhat of a "magical" sense. Their lungs don't breath, but cover their "eyes" and they can't see... and yet as a vapor, Bobby can "see". It's best not to think about it too deeply residing in the realm of comic book powers logic... Flash, similarly, is able to think, sense, and perceive beyond the speed of light/information, but blessed with the Speed Force to explain it, so just accept Mutant Genes as sufficient explanation.

We can gather some precepts, though, Iceman is clearly vulnerable to psychic attack... similarly his consciousness goes where his "body" goes. This suggests that banishment-type attacks could work, such as dropping someone off in the Speed Force.

Both guys acting at their peak, completely bloodlusted, no-holds barred, Wally wins because he will pull out the big desperation moves (Time Travel or Speed Force dump- the latter more likely since he's fought elemental golems before) even before Bobby can form a thought.

Slightly more in character, but still acting at their peak, Wally busts Bobby up but doesn't go beyond that, for Bobby then, it comes down to how fast his "instant" freeze is- unfortunately we don't have a lot of measures of that- but if it's slow enough that Wally can perceive it, a peak acting Flash can avoid it as soon as the cold starts setting in- if it's too fast, then Bobby can cause cellular damage beyond Wally's healing factor and kill him... but that would be a little out of character for Bobby too.

Both completely in character, the two stalemate, Bobby unwilling to kill Flash to completely stop him, and Flash not willingly to use time-travel or speed-force banishment.

while I agree with you on most parts of that (if flash cant see or percieve bobby to be anything more than water vapor, which already exists, how can he attack unless of course he uses time travel , but that is not a common attack for him) I was actually talking about Flash....how can he have brain function if Iceman manages to flash freeze him...that would steal all of the flashes kinetic energy, making him ice cold, and the fastest man alive goes all the way to absolute zero.....how could he just vibrate if he has no brain function? can the speed force protect against that?? I know ALOT more about Iceman than I do about Flash, but i was wondering how many more abilities the speed force actually gives Wally than just speed....

Demas
Fair question. This is why I wondered about how quickly Bobby's freezing occurs... assuming Flash can perceive it, obviously, he could run away, but alternatively he could stand there and try fighting it- streaming KE from the Speed Force into himself to counter-act the cold. We know that's how he gets his vibration started in order to escape Captain Cold's Cold Gun (unlike Mr. Freeze's ice gun, Cold's gun works similar to Iceman by generating absolute zero fields). For lesser cold, we know that Flash's Speed Force aura protects him the same way it does from friction and heat... he's remarked on that many times during arctic-type adventures.

But yeah, assuming Flash was just 100% frozen with cellular damage, etc., he'd just die. Whether he can be stopped without being killed, that leads into my second question....

The other question, besides speed, is whether Bobby's power is absolute. Does it have to overcome kinetic energy/heat or does it simply and magically put things at absolute zero? For example, if you asked him to freeze a nuclear reactor- or the sun- would it be harder than freezing something inert. I theorize there's some effort to it, which is why I think unless he's willing to kill Flash, Flash will be able to still break out of most icy prisons eventually.

LordKaos
let's go back to Flash shattering Iceman, which is not the end of the battle because we all know Iceman can survive as vapor, he could reconstruct himself useing Flash's own body moisture killing him, like he did one of Nightcrawlers siblings.

Blair Wind
I think it ends with a stalemate....Iceman cant "freeze" flash fast enough, and in water vapor form, Flash would never know if he had taken enough speed or not from the air to have effectivly frozen the iceman...plus iceman could still survive, his very mutation (omega-style) would probably let him, since he can survive as anything "cold", warm (water), or even warmer (water vapor) and Im willing to bet his brain goes on a very limited astral form to be able to expand his concouisness like that....

LordKaos
I totally agree with you as I made many of those point earlier. yes

Demas
Originally posted by LordKaos
let's go back to Flash shattering Iceman, which is not the end of the battle because we all know Iceman can survive as vapor, he could reconstruct himself useing Flash's own body moisture killing him, like he did one of Nightcrawlers siblings.

But I see this as an inequitable scenario because that would be Flash holding back- having fought elemental/golem types before he'd know shattering Iceman is but a temporary measure- yet Iceman is bloodlusted and willing to kill.

LordKaos
Flash would only have basic knowledge about Iceman, most people outside of the Xmen don't know about Icemans full power, Flash would see nothing more than a mutant who can manipulate ice and cold. Iceman was willing to kill one of nightcrawlers siblings to preserve his own life. By shattering Iceman, it's safe to say that Flash would think Iceman was dead, so I think Iceman would return in kind to permenantely neutralize an enemy who just tried to kill him.

Demas
That's a huge assumption on your part. Flash's Rogue Gallery is pretty diverse including elementals and energy beings. He'd have to ignore his entire past fighting experiences to think that merely shattering is sufficient to kill. If you're going to leave the scope or elemental nature out of Iceman's "basic knowledge" dossie then Flash is "merely" a speedster, to wit, Iceman's experience is limited to Quicksilver. He'd know nothing of the Speed Force, a big handicap in this case.

The much more equitable comparsion is either both of them bloodlusted or both of them in the same degree of character.

I wouldn't take Iceman's killing of a demon/clone-thingy as a universal readiness to use lethal force in response to a non-lethal attack. Even if Flash was intending to kill Iceman and didn't know that shattering him wouldn't, Icemans DOES know that shattering isn't lethal to him and is unlikely to respond with deadly force. In context, Iceman was under mystical and actual threat before he decided to take the life of an arguably non-sentient monster-type being- certainly not human to the extend Flash is.

I mean, if we're going to take lethal force out of context to that degree, then Flash would have no fear time-travelling to destroy Bobby- just because he did with the Anti-Monitor- or shunting Bobby off into the Speed Force- just because he did with Savitar, a human.

LordKaos
Flash would be just another speedster to Iceman intially as he knows nothing of the speed force, once seeing Flash vibrate out of everything I'm confidant Iceman would turn up the volume. It's out of character for any of the Xmen to kill, until they've tried everything else. Doesn't Flash travelling through time depend on him going through the dimension the speed force comes from, wouldn't he be leaving the battlefield, eliminating himself? as a matter of fact don't they need a cosmic treadmill or something to travel through time?

Demas
That's just the point, he basically has to kill Flash otherwise Flash will always escape. Absent and immediate proof that Flash can affect him, Iceman would have no reason to escalate to lethal force... no more than Superman would kill people for shooting bullets at him. Unfortunately for Iceman that means if Flash intends on escalating, then he'd pull out attacks which Iceman has no response to.

Wally can time travel without the treadmill, Barry could not. So long as their affixation to normal space remains, there's no ringout issue, otherwise Nightcrawler would be eliminated the instant he used his powers, or Iceman would be the instant his body was destroyed since his technical location is the Astral Plane.

LordKaos
God i can't type as fast as i can think thank's to beer if only i had the speed force! The astral plane and the physical plane are two sides of the same coin even when your in one your in the other. Even if he time travels he gets no insight into Iceman and his powers he just gets to try something new still unaware of why he failed the first time.

Superherovandal
you see however he just has to send Iceman to the Speed Force and Iceman would become just like Barry Allen. Dead.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Superherovandal
you see however he just has to send Iceman to the Speed Force and Iceman would become just like Barry Allen. Dead.

Yea we all know how dead Barry is. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Wally wouldnt do that. Bobby may be able to leave his mind on earth, whereas Wally wouldnt know he did so. Then Bobby could just use the moisture in Wally to come back.

LordKaos
Happy Dance smile thumb up yes happy jrodslam Happy Dance

Swanky-Tuna
Originally posted by LordKaos
how convenient roll eyes (sarcastic)
Hehe, it wouldn't be fair to say he's not faster than though just because he can think a bunch of times faster than normal humans.

Sir Whirlysplat
He steels the speed from !cemans attacks in every form - Flash has infinite energy reserves.

Demas
Originally posted by jrodslam
Bobby may be able to leave his mind on earth, whereas Wally wouldnt know he did so. Then Bobby could just use the moisture in Wally to come back.

Two huge assumptions: 1. Bobby could leave his mind on Earth- much less think fast enough to respond to what was happening. 2. Bobby's mutant powers work on and through a Speed Force aura- again, much less being able to think of that fast enough before Flash leaves.

The former is highly unlikely, otherwise he wouldn't need a coporal body and it means it would be impossible for Iceman to have ever travelled through time, space, or other dimensions and we know he's done all three. The only argument is that he can't be taken if he's unwilling, but that's where the speed comes into play- the events occur too quickly for him to will otherwise... but even this is unlikely, otherwise he would have 'ported his spirit right out of "hell".

The latter assumption deals with Bobby's powers as being physics/genetic based, whereas Flash's powers are quasi-mystical. While running, Flash is not sustained by food or air, in danger of friction or exhaustion, and is thinking/acting/perceiving beyond the speed of light/information/rationality, etc. It's questionable whether he has any "moisture" to speak of... Flash ceases to exist as a "rational object" for Iceman's powers to work on at Speed Dump speeds. But it's a moot point considering he'd be unable to react at said speeds.

Your initial statement, however, that Flash wouldn't do that, holds some weight, which is why it's a stalemate... Bobby does not kill people he thinks can't affect him and neither does Flash banish/kill people he thinks he can always escape.

Originally posted by LordKaos
The astral plane and the physical plane are two sides of the same coin even when your in one your in the other. Even if he time travels he gets no insight into Iceman and his powers he just gets to try something new still unaware of why he failed the first time.

To your first assertion, it's a subjective/philosophical argument that doesn't address Nightcrawler... at best it's a technical loss, which by no means helps Iceman survive. To your latter assertion, Iceman's an easy target in the past because: 1. Flash knows he's a mutant (common knowledge- just like Superman is kryptonian) which means he was born mortal at one point. 2. Iceman is a relatively public mutant, making it easy to track him down and kill him at conception.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Demas
Two huge assumptions: 1. Bobby could leave his mind on Earth- much less think fast enough to respond to what was happening. 2. Bobby's mutant powers work on and through a Speed Force aura- again, much less being able to think of that fast enough before Flash leaves.

The former is highly unlikely, otherwise he wouldn't need a coporal body and it means it would be impossible for Iceman to have ever travelled through time, space, or other dimensions and we know he's done all three. The only argument is that he can't be taken if he's unwilling, but that's where the speed comes into play- the events occur too quickly for him to will otherwise... but even this is unlikely, otherwise he would have 'ported his spirit right out of "hell".

The latter assumption deals with Bobby's powers as being physics/genetic based, whereas Flash's powers are quasi-mystical. While running, Flash is not sustained by food or air, in danger of friction or exhaustion, and is thinking/acting/perceiving beyond the speed of light/information/rationality, etc. It's questionable whether he has any "moisture" to speak of... Flash ceases to exist as a "rational object" for Iceman's powers to work on at Speed Dump speeds. But it's a moot point considering he'd be unable to react at said speeds.

Well for one, if Flash were to punch Iceman to the point where he shatters, Wally would most likely assume that the fight would be over. But lets just say Wally knows Bobby isnt defeated, he still wouldnt know where his conscious is exactly. As long as theres moisture in the air, he can/would reform anywhere. And he will indeed have time for that, unless Flash is time traveling which i doubt. Secondly, if Iceman were to encase Wally in a block of ice, it would take Flash a few seconds to vibrate out. And it takes Iceman less than a second to manipulate the blood. You have to remember that Iceman doesnt have to just shoot an ice-beam. He can gather cold thats in the air to make things frozen instantly. For Wally to beat something thats instant, hed need to build the momentum. Flash even needs time to build up the momentum to reach lightspeed and enter the speedforce. Thats about 10-15 seconds. If he were to indeed do that and throw Bobby in it, hed risk getting pulled in himself. If worse comes to worse and he feels Bobby is a real threat, hed try it.

I do hear what youre saying, but i wasnt implying that Bobby can just move his conscious from place to place at anytime. If he can, i have no knowledge of that. However i do know that if hes shattered, he can move it and reform elsewhere. I wouldnt go as far as saying miles but most likely in the area. Maybe even in Wally like he did with the Nightcrawler relative was it?

Superherovandal
you guys assume he could react before that happened. he'd be in the SF before he could hope of reacting.

jrodslam
^ Flash needs to go lightspeed to do that. He also risks getting pulled in himself, so....

He also needs to build up momentum to do that which would be anywhere from 10-15 seconds. In that time Bobby can make multiple clones of himself, make the area around him so cold that Wally begins to slow down, or just simple gather the moisture from beneath the surface to throw Wally off his course.

Swanky-Tuna
Since when does Flash abide by stupid things like "momentum"?

jrodslam
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Since when does Flash abide by stupid things like "momentum"?

He always needs to do that in order to achieve some high end feats such as IMP's and speedforce.

Superherovandal
Flash freezes Iceman and takes him to SF or accelerates him into space where there is no moisture.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Superherovandal
Flash freezes Iceman and takes him to SF or accelerates him into space where there is no moisture.


Did you read my previous posts?

Flash takes speed from moving objects to render them still i believe. Iceman doesnt have to move to flash-freze Wally.

Superherovandal
Wally would be around the world and back before Iceman could even react. You're underestimating Flash's speed greatly. Iceman wouldn't even know where Wally went. Unless Iceman could freeze the entire globe he ain't doing crap to Flash. He would feel the vague effects of Icemans power long before they took full effect. He once felt the vibrations of bullet that was shot from a very distance away and ran there and back before anyone noticed.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Superherovandal
Wally would be around the world and back before Iceman could even react. You're underestimating Flash's speed greatly. Iceman wouldn't even know where Wally went. Unless Iceman could freeze the entire globe he ain't doing crap to Flash. He would feel the vague effects of Icemans power long before they took full effect. He once felt the vibrations of bullet that was shot from a very distance away and ran there and back before anyone noticed.

No Wally wouldnt be around the world and back before Iceman would notice. He needs momentum to build up that kind of speed. He cant go from 0 to light speed instantly. He was able to do that when he stole other speedsters speed. There are no speedsters in this fight.

Im never one to underestimate Flash's abilities. Im usually the one defending him in debates. I do however know that it takes him about 10-15 seconds to reach lightspeed and enter the speedforce.

Also he wouldnt feel the vague effects of Icemans powers before they take full effect. If Bobby flash-frezes him, thats it. Its instant. Much like Captain Colds freeze gun, but without the beam and the aiming. Its much different from a bullet. A bullet has kinetic energy via speed and heat. Wally can absorb the kinetic energy, slowing/stopping the bullet. Plus, a bullet isnt instant either. Wally CANT beat something thats instant without building up the proper momentum first.

Superherovandal
he definitely would be at least 200- miles away before Iceman could even react. Think about it. His starting speed should at least be about high Mach speeds.

jrodslam
Ok, so he hits Iceman coming from 200-400 miles away. So.....

Whats that gonna do?

LordKaos
how big is the battlefield? Running around the world no matter how fast you do it is considered leaving the battlefield right? seems like the only way Flash can win is by running away first.

jrodslam
Originally posted by LordKaos
how big is the battlefield? Running around the world no matter how fast you do it is considered leaving the battlefield right? seems like the only way Flash can win is by running away first.

It was never stated how big the battlefield was. It wasnt even stated where it was. Im assuming theres no ring outs unless Flash hits Iceman with a IMP and send him into orbital velocity to try to ko him.

LordKaos
Oh thanks , I'm still going with Iceman anyway, really i'm all for a stalemate but you know.

Psycho Ninja
FLASH RULEZ !!!

jrodslam
Originally posted by Psycho Ninja
FLASH RULEZ !!!

He does. But i still think its a staslemate more or less.

Swanky-Tuna
Originally posted by jrodslam
Also he wouldnt feel the vague effects of Icemans powers before they take full effect. If Bobby flash-frezes him, thats it. Its instant.
I find it ridiculous that Iceman would be able to drop someone's temperature from 98 or whatever to the negatives with no middle ground. That'd rip a person apart when all the energy is shunted out of their body at greater than light speeds.

Blair Wind
its comics...what can we do about it??

LordKaos
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
I find it ridiculous that Iceman would be able to drop someone's temperature from 98 or whatever to the negatives with no middle ground. That'd rip a person apart when all the energy is shunted out of their body at greater than light speeds.

It's just as ridiculous as Flash reaching light speed without a middle ground blink

nigel45
Originally posted by LordKaos
It's just as ridiculous as Flash reaching light speed without a middle ground blink

There is a middle ground. He just passes through it almost instantly, Which might be the same case with Iceman as well.

Lord-of-Dreams
even if Iceman froze Flash completely, he would just melt through it- I hate to use the whole vibrating through stuff arguement- then pay Ice back for the chill.
Someone please tell me whom Flash actually fights, at his new level, hes even too much for Supes

Blair Wind
but the argument here isnt that he freezes Flash in a block of ice....its that he freezes his very molecules and leaves him there....

The Ion
Hasn't Captain Cold tried that?

Blair Wind
eh I guess, I really dont know much about him, but I DO know that Iceman has more options once he's frozen him.....rip out all his mouisture, and so much more but I cant get into it, i have homework to do...

King_Mungi
Originally posted by The Ion
Hasn't Captain Cold tried that?

Yes.

Draco69
Captain Cold has tried dozen times with his absolute zero gun. Never works for more than a nanosecond.

bitca730
If IceMan can just reconstitute himself, and Flash just continually vibrates, whats the point of the fight at all?

superbatman86
The difference is that flash isn't incased in ice but has the 75% of his body that is water frozen killing him.Also he can't stop Iceman from thinking because he doesn't have eletrical impulses in ice form.He's like the the Shadow king in that he's a consciusness inhabiting a corporal form.Bobby is connected to all water that's how he can appear in more place at once.Normally I'd say tie because neither goes for the kill or their more powerful moves but if it's bloodlusted and to the death Iceman 10/10 simply because if your not a telepath your pretty screwed.

Draco69
Um. Please. No. He can just hyper-acclerate his molecules until he breaks apart into tachyons.

bitca730
Unitl whose tachyons breaks apart ? Flash or IceMan?

Lord-of-Dreams
Lemme say it like this: Flash is too much for Bobby, cuz even though he's got that amazing power, he still feels a punch from a guy moving 2000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 miles p/hour, right? That shit hurts. trust me. And it would probly kill... I'm not sure... If someone's head is hit so hard it dissolves into dust, does his mind stop working? I'd say so, but I'm no scientist.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Lord-of-Dreams
Lemme say it like this: Flash is too much for Bobby, cuz even though he's got that amazing power, he still feels a punch from a guy moving 2000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 miles p/hour, right? That shit hurts. trust me. And it would probly kill... I'm not sure... If someone's head is hit so hard it dissolves into dust, does his mind stop working? I'd say so, but I'm no scientist.

Iceman WOULD know what happened to him. The punch would most likely break his head into bits. Disintegrate? Maybe, but there will always be moisture in the air where Bobby can reform. Secondly, in answer to your question. Yes his conscious will still be around meaning he will be able to reform in the area, inside wally or somewhere else.

Like ive stated before, therese no doubts that Flash gets the first hit or 2. He may even shatter Bobby into a million parts. However that then works to Bobby's advantage in a way because he has options to attack Wally now. He can use the moisture from within Wally to reform. That would most likely kill Flash. He can create duplicates then flash freeze or manipulate Wallys blood. Instead of slowing the flow, he can purely stop it. I know Wally can speed up his heart rate and even slow it down, but if Bobbys stopping all blood flow while Wally tries speeding it up, who would win that battle? Id lean more towards Iceman for the simple fact that he can do that instantly while Flash would have to gradually slow it up.

Another thing is if Iceman were to flash freeze Flash, it would take a second or so for Wally to vibrate out of it.

Lord-of-Dreams
So it's a stalemate? what if Wally meister ran around Bob at such a speed as to cause a tornade flame around him, the pop him it a million pieces? So's he'd burn into oxygen, or whatever element, while he's unconcious?
This is actually a great fight in terms of learning about these two characters!! big grin

jrodslam
Originally posted by Lord-of-Dreams
So it's a stalemate? what if Wally meister ran around Bob at such a speed as to cause a tornade flame around him, the pop him it a million pieces? So's he'd burn into oxygen, or whatever element, while he's unconcious?
This is actually a great fight in terms of learning about these two characters!! big grin

I dont know. How would we know Bobby is unconscious? Even if Iceman did get poped into a million pieces and turned into oxygen, there would stil be moisture in the air and Bobby can still reform. Question is where would he reform. If he were to do it inside of Wally, its a wrap for Flash. If Flash can somehow knock him out, then the tactics can work. Its really hard to judge this fight. All that can be said is a bunch of "if's" then more "if's". Im only leaning slightly towards Iceman here.

GODSCRIBE
Is Iceman capable of actually entering Flash's body and materializing, or freezeing his blood cells? If he does that from inside of flash, he can cut off his oxygen, or stop the flow of blood to his head.

If he can't do what is stated above then Flash wins.

jrodslam
Iceman doesnt have to enter Flash's body to stop his bloodflow. He has a connection to all moisture around him, so if he wants, he can form a giant ice pick to stil out from Wallys chest if he wants to. Thing is, unless its the heart, Flash can heal within seconds. Flash could also speed up his metabolism so that any physical damage Iceman does to him heals instantly. Iceman would have to totaly have him in pieces. This is a hard fight to judge.

Lord-of-Dreams
Originally posted by jrodslam
I dont know. How would we know Bobby is unconscious? Even if Iceman did get poped into a million pieces and turned into oxygen, there would stil be moisture in the air and Bobby can still reform. Question is where would he reform. If he were to do it inside of Wally, its a wrap for Flash. If Flash can somehow knock him out, then the tactics can work. Its really hard to judge this fight. All that can be said is a bunch of "if's" then more "if's". Im only leaning slightly towards Iceman here.

Well, for one thing, I'd say despite his amazing power, he can still be knocked out, since he sleeps. Also, fire actually 'eats' the moisture in the air(which is why you sweat when you're near fire: you skin runs out of moisture, and your body needs to keep it moist), so Bobby should be- as far as I know- trapped in his spot (he wouldn't have time to go into the earth's moisture) till Flash bopped him, when he'd either burn to death as human, or be melted and destroyed as ice. That's my belief, but... well... I've been wrong twice before, so... :P

ixie
I think Iceman is unkillable in ice form. I don't know about his human form.

coosie
Originally posted by ixie
I think Iceman is unkillable in ice form. I don't know about his human form.
Iceman can be killed in human form.

Lord-of-Dreams
I dunno if you guys read what I said or not, but I'm assuming you did. I asked if in my scenario- which you'll go back and read if you care- Ice would die, it makes perfect sense and works with what I've heard here about his no-death policy. I have to say Flash 5.5/10

jrodslam
Human Torch once tried to surround Iceman in flames. You know what Iceman did? He made it rain.

Lord-of-Dreams
lol why were they fighting?? Can you scan that fight, sounds great!!
But see, the other part of the plan comes into play there, Flash runs through the fire and pops Ice, knocking him out, and he dies in peace... Problems are two: 1. Can Ice even be knocked out? 2. Would melting wake him up?

jrodslam
The fight is scanned in the Iceman respect thread. They were fighting cause Torch thought Iceman robbed a bank and sneak attacked him. Flash runs through the fire and hit Bobby. Would it knock him out? Thats trhe question. Can Iceman be knocked out? Probably. If hes melted and turned into water he can just reform.

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/308/iceman13gv3or.th.jpg
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7864/iceman20rs8ge.th.jpg
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5240/iceman32ns0cs.th.jpg

Lord-of-Dreams
No he can't. Fire eats the water, it eats oxygen, why uou think you can't stay in a burning building for too long.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Lord-of-Dreams
No he can't. Fire eats the water, it eats oxygen, why uou think you can't stay in a burning building for too long.

Do you think Flash can generate/create hotter fire than Iceman can colder Ice?

If so, youre sadly mistaken.

Lord-of-Dreams
Does Ice even have varying levels of coldness? I always thought it was just ice, and how frozen the water was was what decided the coldness... And how is that relevent?

jrodslam
Originally posted by Lord-of-Dreams
Does Ice even have varying levels of coldness? I always thought it was just ice, and how frozen the water was was what decided the coldness... And how is that relevent?

It does. Theres ice like we have in the freezer. Then theres the ice where youd touch it, youd freeze instanyly and die. Have you ever seen the movie Day After Tomorrow? The cold that was displayed in theat movie was an example of how cold Bobby can go.

Its relevant because no matter what fire FLash can/would create, it wouldnt be hot enough to melt him and Iceman can easily drown it out with ice.

Lord-of-Dreams
Oh, yeah, true... wow... So, it's basically a draw... hey, is Bobby still underneath all the ice, like in the goodol'days, or is he actually ice?

jrodslam
Originally posted by Lord-of-Dreams
Oh, yeah, true... wow... So, it's basically a draw... hey, is Bobby still underneath all the ice, like in the goodol'days, or is he actually ice?

I pretty much agree for the most part. Bobby may have a sliiiight advantage. But thats only after being shattered. When iced up, hes all ice. But now hes able to revert back to human form.

Draco69
Um. NO. People THINK. Flash IMPS Iceman. He does indeed shattter...however the force of blow would be so severe ( a faster than lightspeed punch would have the force of a dwarf neutron star....that's literally Hiroshima times three million) his very water molecules would be ripped apart into incoherent trash codes or dispersed into the flipping stratosphere.

Hell, all Flash needs to do is steal Iceman's kinetic energy until absolute zero. Iceman would be ironically "frozen."

jrodslam
How lond does it take Flash to preform this lightspeed IMP starting from zero? When he hit Grodd, it took him 7 seconds. When he IMP'd Zum, he already had full momentum. When recently fighting Zoom, he wasnt even going lightspeed and needed a running start to go that fast to deliver the puch. Thus at the start of the fight, Flash isnt going to hit Iceman with a IMP that "his very water molecules would be ripped apart into incoherent trash codes or dispersed into the flipping stratosphere." Starting from zero and attacking Bobby may only just shatter him with wouldnt be the end of the fight. Wally needs to be close or touching Iceman in order to steal the kinetic energy. If the fight is just starting and Iceman isnt moving yet, theres not much kinetic energy Flash is going to steal.

Juntai
Originally posted by jrodslam
How lond does it take Flash to preform this lightspeed IMP starting from zero? When he hit Grodd, it took him 7 seconds. When he IMP'd Zum, he already had full momentum. When recently fighting Zoom, he wasnt even going lightspeed and needed a running start to go that fast to deliver the puch. Thus at the start of the fight, Flash isnt going to hit Iceman with a IMP that "his very water molecules would be ripped apart into incoherent trash codes or dispersed into the flipping stratosphere." Starting from zero and attacking Bobby may only just shatter him with wouldnt be the end of the fight. Wally needs to be close or touching Iceman in order to steal the kinetic energy. If the fight is just starting and Iceman isnt moving yet, theres not much kinetic energy Flash is going to steal. Well, Flash evacuated city, person by person, carrying all half million occupants 70 miles in .000001 seconds.
When he punched Zoom with his "My fists hit with the power of stars" punch, he had only moved a step or two and already declared he was moving lightspeed.

Draco69
Originally posted by jrodslam
How lond does it take Flash to preform this lightspeed IMP starting from zero? When he hit Grodd, it took him 7 seconds.

Seven seconds?! Who wrote that crap? It only takes him about a tenth of a picosecond. He has to reach lightspeed in order to do so. And we all know how easy it is for Flash to reach lightspeed. Hell he can WALK at lightspeed.


Originally posted by jrodslam
When he IMP'd Zum, he already had full momentum.

Yes and the entire battle took place in the space of one second.


Originally posted by jrodslam
When recently fighting Zoom, he wasnt even going lightspeed and needed a running start to go that fast to deliver the puch.

Flash never tried to do a IMP at Zoom. Why? Because Zoom was completely schooling him. He couldn't land a single blow to Zoom.

And what ARE you saying about Flash not fighting Zoom at lightspeed? Why would would Flash NOT go at LEAST lightspeed against a man who's a bajillion times "faster" than him.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Thus at the start of the fight, Flash isnt going to hit Iceman with a IMP

You're relying on inaccurate comics and comics loaded with PIS/CIS. In this forum we ignore such low showings and focus on high showings.

A bloodlusted Flash would IMP Iceman (or any other opponent) several million times before they can even form a thought.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Starting from zero and attacking Bobby may only just shatter him with wouldnt be the end of the fight.

Flash wouldn't just "shatter" Bobby. You're assuming he's just a really fast object like a bullet. A bullet would likely shatter Bobby. Or a steel baseball thrown by Thor.

Flash however can go beyond lightspeeds like it's nobody's business. He can hit with the force of a dwarf neutron star with lightspeed momentum behind it. That's Hiroshima cubed, squared, and cubed again.

Bobby wouldn't shatter. He would friggin disintegrate. The force of the blow would be so outrageously powerful that it would rip apart the water molecules into nothingness.

Flash doesn't even HAVE to do an IMP. Hell all he has to do is steal his speed. And Iceman gets a taste of his own medicine.

Draco69
Originally posted by Juntai
Well, Flash evacuated city, person by person, carrying all half million occupants 70 miles in .000001 seconds.
When he punched Zoom with his "My fists hit with the power of stars" punch, he had only moved a step or two and already declared he was moving lightspeed.


yes

Lord-of-Dreams
but 'his mind could still transfer to other moisture.' That's the whole predicament.
Yo! I got it!! Flash could actually run through Ice and remove all of his moisture because of his speed, this would kill Ice, cause he wouldnt have time to transfer!

Draco69
He wouldn't even need to do that. He can just hyper-accelerate the molecules in the air until they literally break apart from the strain.

(happens in space shuttle take-offs...)

jrodslam
Originally posted by Juntai
Well, Flash evacuated city, person by person, carrying all half million occupants 70 miles in .000001 seconds.
When he punched Zoom with his "My fists hit with the power of stars" punch, he had only moved a step or two and already declared he was moving lightspeed.

I also heard Flash already had a running start before doing that.

He was moving at lightspeed with 2 steps? Yet there was a time where he already stated that he couldnt go from 0 to lightspeed instantly. In the latest fight with Zoom, he built up momentum and STILL wasnt going lightspeed.

Draco69
Originally posted by jrodslam
I also heard Flash already had a running start before doing that.

He was moving at lightspeed with 2 steps? Yet there was a time where he already stated that he couldnt go from 0 to lightspeed instantly. In the latest fight with Zoom, he built up momentum and STILL wasnt going lightspeed.

That was obviously crap. Flash can go 0 to lightspeed in no time at all. The writer was just downgrading him to make a story and building suspense. Which is understandable considering how fast Flash can truly be.....

Juntai
http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2148022rg.jpg
Notice how it describes in the first panel that they JUST started moving in the room with that guy and time stops...They trade blows.. Flash describes that he's already been moving lightspeed, and they still never make it to the guy who was only a couple feet away in that initial panel by the end of it.



Needless to say, if he taps the speedforce, he steps out of sync with our time, and time stops to him, and it doesn't matter what speed he's moving.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Draco69
Seven seconds?! Who wrote that crap? It only takes him about a tenth of a picosecond. He has to reach lightspeed in order to do so. And we all know how easy it is for Flash to reach lightspeed. Hell he can WALK at lightspeed.

Flash takes a few seconds to hit lightspeed. When was he able to do it instantly? The only time im aware of was when he gathered speed from other speedsters. Maybe you know of another instance.

Originally posted by Draco69
Yes and the entire battle took place in the space of one second.

Can you show the entire fight? Youre saying he went from 0 to lightspeed instanly? Id like prof of that.

Originally posted by Draco69
Flash never tried to do a IMP at Zoom. Why? Because Zoom was completely schooling him. He couldn't land a single blow to Zoom.

I never said Flash tried to IMP Zoom. I stated that he needed a head start to deliver the push. In the back. Hew built up the momentum and still wasnt going lightspeed. I just was my post and i made a typping error. Instead of push, i typed "puch". Thats my fault.

Originally posted by Draco69
And what ARE you saying about Flash not fighting Zoom at lightspeed? Why would would Flash NOT go at LEAST lightspeed against a man who's a bajillion times "faster" than him.

Flash went lightspeed fighting Zoom 1 time i believe. In the latest fight, Wally stated "Right now, im barely keeping up" "I cant catch him.." "I tear the muscles in my shoulder as I throw my arms forward at over one thousand miles per second..." Not lightspeed.

Originally posted by Draco69
You're relying on inaccurate comics and comics loaded with PIS/CIS. In this forum we ignore such low showings and focus on high showings.

How am i relying on inacurate comics? There has been more than one occasion where Flash stated that he coudnt go to lightspeed instantly. He needs momentum. Those arent low showings. Him going from 0 to lightspeed instantly are PIS. Those are inacurate.

Originally posted by Draco69
Flash wouldn't just "shatter" Bobby. You're assuming he's just a really fast object like a bullet. A bullet would likely shatter Bobby. Or a steel baseball thrown by Thor.

A bullet wouldnt shatter Bobby or a steel baseball thrown by Thor. It may go through him, but thats about it.

Originally posted by Draco69
Flash however can go beyond lightspeeds like it's nobody's business. He can hit with the force of a dwarf neutron star with lightspeed momentum behind it. That's Hiroshima cubed, squared, and cubed again.

I dont doubt Flash can go beyond lightspeeds. He does need the momentum.

Originally posted by Draco69
Flash doesn't even HAVE to do an IMP. Hell all he has to do is steal his speed. And Iceman gets a taste of his own medicine.

I already replied to that in another post.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Juntai
http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2148022rg.jpg
Notice how it describes in the first panel that they JUST started moving in the room with that guy and time stops...They trade blows.. Flash describes that he's already been moving lightspeed, and they still never make it to the guy who was only a couple feet away in that initial panel by the end of it.

Wait a minute thats not even Zoom(Hunter) Its Reverse Flash(Thawne). Since when does he move from 0 to lightspeed instantly? Talk about iinacurate.

Originally posted by Juntai
Needless to say, if he taps the speedforce, he steps out of sync with our time, and time stops to him, and it doesn't matter what speed he's moving.

When he does tap into speedforce mode time does stop. However in order for him to deliver a IMP he needs to build that momentum wich isnt instant.

Juntai
Originally posted by jrodslam



When he does tap into speedforce mode time does stop. However in order for him to deliver a IMP he needs to build that momentum wich isnt instant. Well, I just showed a scan of him doing it instantly. Kinda defeats your post.
O.o

jrodslam
Originally posted by Juntai
Well, I just showed a scan of him doing it instantly. Kinda defeats your post.
O.o

Not really. It shows a grat deal of inacuracy. reverse Flash cant go from 0 to lightspeed instantly, so that scan doesnt really hold any weight.

jrodslam
Flash needing a boost from Bart AND Jay just to go from 0 to lightspeed instantly.

http://img429.imageshack.us/img429/4223/theflashv2199169ny1mx.th.jpg

Flash always needs that momentum to go lightspeed.

Lord-of-Dreams
...he still wins...

Juntai
Originally posted by jrodslam
Flash needing a boost from Bart AND Jay just to go from 0 to lightspeed instantly.

http://img429.imageshack.us/img429/4223/theflashv2199169ny1mx.th.jpg

Flash always needs that momentum to go lightspeed. Eh, but my scan is contradictory to yours and is quite canon. It's just writers style. -shrug.- We have scan showing he can, and another showing he can with help.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Juntai
Eh, but my scan is contradictory to yours and is quite canon. It's just writers style. -shrug.- We have scan showing he can, and another showing he can with help.

I guess. As most know, im a HUGE supporter of Flash , but even i know thats rediculous. Im not saying i know all about FLash, however most writers would agree that Prof. Zoom cant go from 0 to lightspeed instantly as well as Wally as most instances show. Ahh well. erm

ixie
It doesn't matter if Flash can use his speed to damage water vapor around him. He can be anywhere and everywhere in the world.

OMNIKINETIC
THE FLASH COULD TAKE THIS ONE WITH ONE EYE CLOSE

ixie
How?

JOE NUNEZ
makkari=flash killer.......

coosie
But can't Iceman be fighting Flash in Egypt one second then teleport to China the next?

Draco69
Because Flash would get there first. laughing out loud

Lord-of-Dreams
Originally posted by coosie
But can't Iceman be fighting Flash in Egypt one second then teleport to China the next?
not really... he more switches bodies. And this is relevent because...?

coosie
Iceman could probably get there first but can't Iceman be one with the earth, with the plants, with everything?

Demas
Originally posted by jrodslam
I also heard Flash already had a running start before doing that.

He was moving at lightspeed with 2 steps? Yet there was a time where he already stated that he couldnt go from 0 to lightspeed instantly. In the latest fight with Zoom, he built up momentum and STILL wasnt going lightspeed.

That's not particularly relevant since it's not a linear- straight-line- feat. He needs to stop, turn, search, pick-up people, etc. Every single time he reverses directions he decellerates to zero then jumps back up to that peak speed.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Demas
That's not particularly relevant since it's not a linear- straight-line- feat. He needs to stop, turn, search, pick-up people, etc. Every single time he reverses directions he decellerates to zero then jumps back up to that peak speed.

Which is still a bit iffy considering most times he still needs to build momentum to reach lightspeeds.

Demas
Originally posted by jrodslam
Which is still a bit iffy considering most times he still needs to build momentum to reach lightspeeds.

I don't think it's most times. It's writer based and inversely logical.

That is, if Flash wants to accomplish a high speed operating task, one that forces lots of starts, stops, turns, and reversals- such as building an entire bridge, disassembling a car, evacuating buildings or cities, or rebuilding entire towns- then Flash is free from the constraints of acceleration... but comic book writers- the poor scientists that they are- tend to force Flash to accelerate only if he's moving in a mosty straight-line over long distances, or travelling speed (this is the inverse of most characters with a FTL power-subset).

There are two factors in play:
- The first is that we tend towards consistent high showings of which there are enough instant acceleration examples.
- Even if we accept both types as showings as the rule, which is more relevant? Operational speeds, IMO, are immediately more relevant to a fight than travelling speeds, so Flash should have the acceleration default to that method of motion.

jrodslam
Originally posted by Demas
I don't think it's most times. It's writer based and inversely logical.

That is, if Flash wants to accomplish a high speed operating task, one that forces lots of starts, stops, turns, and reversals- such as building an entire bridge, disassembling a car, evacuating buildings or cities, or rebuilding entire towns- then Flash is free from the constraints of acceleration... but comic book writers- the poor scientists that they are- tend to force Flash to accelerate only if he's moving in a mosty straight-line over long distances, or travelling speed (this is the inverse of most characters with a FTL power-subset).

There are two factors in play:
- The first is that we tend towards consistent high showings of which there are enough instant acceleration examples.
- Even if we accept both types as showings as the rule, which is more relevant? Operational speeds, IMO, are immediately more relevant to a fight than travelling speeds, so Flash should have the acceleration default to that method of motion.

From the instances where ive seen, it is most times.

Even when not having to make stops, turns, reversals, but running straight, he needs a momentum build up to hit lightspeed. I wouldnt expect him to do so if there were obstacles such as the things you mentioned(building or fixing things or saving people).

What are the consistent high showings? Im not saying that there arent any of him doing instant acceleration, but not any which incude lightspeed. If you know of any and can prove it, then ill concede. I also agree that operational speeds in a fight are more imporatnt. However when instant IMP's get brought up, id have to disagree. With about a 10-20 foot distance between the 2 at the start of the fight, i have no doubts that Flash would get off a devastating move on Bobby and shatter him. No question. That doesnt end the fight however and it then gives time for Iceman to counter attack. That is when the real fight begins.

Demas
Originally posted by jrodslam
Even when not having to make stops, turns, reversals, but running straight, he needs a momentum build up to hit lightspeed. No, that's the exact point. Every instance when he performs those movements is an example of instantaneous acceleration. There's no such thing as "building up momentum" for a reversal. Acceleration is a vectored value, you can't conserve it travelling along an opposite vector. So in every example of Flash operating at lightspeed or greater.

The most significant, ignoring operational ones as mentioned above, would be his time-travel/speed-dimension feats. Flash has been able to, even in-doors, leap into the speed-force dimension or time travel at will simply by running forward and shattering the super-luminal barrier. We know the acceleration to be incredible and virtually instantaneous as the feats occured indoors.

Another example would be Bart's impatience with light bulbs, literally running back and forth between the light-switch and the bulb a dozen times waiting for it to come on.

Another one is Wally's trick for appearing in two places at once, with one in costume and the other in plainclothes. He literally accelerates instantly, changes clothes, deccelerates, stands in place, then reverses direction, accelerates back, changes back into costume, deccelerates, and stands in place, doing this thousands of times per second to fool the eye, while using Speed Force tricks to keep friction, atmosphere, and his own mind undisturbed (imagine the bordem-level if there wasn't a degree of "autopilot" to his powers).



Well I'm not touching this part of the discussion, I've said my piece on it earlier... I'm just addressing Flash's abilities.

LordFear
There is a suped up version of Iceman and if its that one then advantage Bobby.Otherwise Bobby gets iced

jrodslam
Originally posted by Demas
No, that's the exact point. Every instance when he performs those movements is an example of instantaneous acceleration. There's no such thing as "building up momentum" for a reversal. Acceleration is a vectored value, you can't conserve it travelling along an opposite vector. So in every example of Flash operating at lightspeed or greater.

The most significant, ignoring operational ones as mentioned above, would be his time-travel/speed-dimension feats. Flash has been able to, even in-doors, leap into the speed-force dimension or time travel at will simply by running forward and shattering the super-luminal barrier. We know the acceleration to be incredible and virtually instantaneous as the feats occured indoors.

Another example would be Bart's impatience with light bulbs, literally running back and forth between the light-switch and the bulb a dozen times waiting for it to come on.

Another one is Wally's trick for appearing in two places at once, with one in costume and the other in plainclothes. He literally accelerates instantly, changes clothes, deccelerates, stands in place, then reverses direction, accelerates back, changes back into costume, deccelerates, and stands in place, doing this thousands of times per second to fool the eye, while using Speed Force tricks to keep friction, atmosphere, and his own mind undisturbed (imagine the bordem-level if there wasn't a degree of "autopilot" to his powers).



Well I'm not touching this part of the discussion, I've said my piece on it earlier... I'm just addressing Flash's abilities.

Im well aware of Flash's abilities and tricks, however it isnt quite relevant here. Unless hes dumping Bobby into the SF zone as soon as the fight starts that is. But thats out of character for him. So besides geting off the first move which will probably shatter Bobby, Wally will then be open for attack.

Nick1989
Listen. The Flash(Wally West) would beat the crap out of ice man. Flash posses powers that enable him to travel the world 20 times in less then 2 seconds (Proven in a comic). The Flash would just have to punch Ice Man. The Flash could punch Ice man hundreds maybe even thousands of times within seconds. The Flash would waste Ice Man in seconds if he wanted to. People underestimate The Flash becuase he makes jokes and becuse hes funny. He is one of the most powerful DC heros.

Lord-of-Dreams
hahaha!! Homeboy, go back a few pages to where I started posting in here, and learn. Flash can't win by any means. Punching won't work, no speed trick will...
I think the best think for little gyus like us is to sit and watch silently, yo know? I shut up because the guys all know way more about the characters than me, and clearly I know more than you, so... if I were you, in order to not end up looking stupid, take my advice, ok Nick? (I dont mean to insult you in any way, by the way... big grin)

Nick1989
Lol. Honestly ive read nearly all the Impulse(Bart Allen), Wally West, Barry Allen, and Jay Garrick. I know what they are capible of. The Flash would waste Ice Man. Ice Man couldint even be able to touch flash, let alone see him. Ice Man would be wasted. If you dont believe me read some Flash comics.

Lord-of-Dreams
Don't worry, I have, I'm saying g back and learn a bit more about what I'm talking about. Ice isn't gonna lose, I in fact posted several good scenarios for why Flash should win, and still, its dead locked.

Nick1989
Lol. Thanks for your comment mate.

Nick1989
Lord-of-Dreams whos your favourite Flash?

Lord-of-Dreams
umm, if you mean guy in flash suit, i'd say wally... i just know ihm the best lol, my fav. dc speedster though is Impulse, he's just... so impulsive... lol

Black Adam
ninja

Grimm22
Pretty much every Flash can beat Iceman no expression

Seriously Flash is WAY to fast for him to do anything to hurt him.

Besides if worse came to worse Flash could just run Iceman into the speed force big grin

superbatman86
Originally posted by Grimm22
Pretty much every Flash can beat Iceman no expression

Seriously Flash is WAY to fast for him to do anything to hurt him.

Besides if worse came to worse Flash could just run Iceman into the speed force big grin
And then he just teleports out.You know the whole one with all moisture thing.

Grimm22
Originally posted by superbatman86
And then he just teleports out.You know the whole one with all moisture thing.

That makes no sense no expression

The speed force is another dimension of sorts, you can just teleport out of it with moisture powers

Accel
Iceman essentially can exist as air moisture all over the place, meaning Flash could never really pull him into the Speed Force completely.

Grimm22
Originally posted by Accel
Iceman essentially can exist as air moisture all over the place, meaning Flash could never really pull him into the Speed Force completely.

Maybe not, but Iceman can not even hurt Flash, he's WAY to fast for him even to think about attacking wink

jrodslam
Originally posted by Grimm22
Maybe not, but Iceman can not even hurt Flash, he's WAY to fast for him even to think about attacking wink

Once Iceman is shattered, what will Flash be doing then? He doesnt know Bobby's consciousness is still around. Nor would Flash know Bobby can use the moisture thats inside his body to reform and kill him.

Grimm22
Originally posted by jrodslam
Once Iceman is shattered, what will Flash be doing then? He doesnt know Bobby's consciousness is still around. Nor would Flash know Bobby can use the moisture thats inside his body to reform and kill him.

How do you know? no expression

Maybe Flash will run to the X-mansion and look up Iceman's stats on a computer or what not stick out tongue

jrodslam
Originally posted by Grimm22
How do you know? no expression

Maybe Flash will run to the X-mansion and look up Iceman's stats on a computer or what not stick out tongue

How do i know? Because thats Bobbys abilities.big grin

Flash cant just run in the mansion and access thye files cause he doesnt have the password to them. Aaaannnnddd, that would be battlefield removal on his part and thus he loses. wink

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.