Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

My issue is, now that KOTOR's out, people worship Revan and Traya as Gods...even if Sidious did feats in DE, it doesn't change the fact he COULD do them and chose not to in Episode 3 by the EU. Vader was also big time strong-like...eighty percent of Sidious, but he gets a lot of crap...mostly because he fought in an era when CGI didn't exist...

KOTOR is a tenuous source, can you prove to me what Revan knew? What he did? What DID the Ancient Sith of old ever do that was so incredible? We have a single statement from a noted liar and manipulator four thousand years BEFORE Maul and Sidious and the like.

So, I ask, why is Revan considered well above people like Anakin, or Palpatine, or Yoda or NJO Luke? There's official sources against him and little backing him

Many people say that, because the Jedi and Sith are at war in the KOTOR period, they are more adept at killing each other and so on and so forth.

I think that's kinda stupid; they should be no more powerful than the next Sith Lord. Traya and Nihilus have absurd powers...for example, Nihilus eats the Force? Is that even possible? And Traya's instakill...overpowered, and just complicates the plot of the KOTOR games so that it doesn't work against certain people and such.

Eh....I don't particularly mind the exagerrated powers...just when they keep using them to place them above and above the other strongest


And constant wars would weaken the Jedi more than anything...

Well, I've certainly never believed any idea that people were more powerful in the olden days in SW.

And yes, KOTOR does suffer from over-powered force syndrome.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well, I've certainly never believed any idea that people were more powerful in the olden days in SW.

Well, let's be honest Ush; you are kinda biased towards the movies.

What I hate most is Palpatine being downplayed...I can't believe anyone thinks Revan could take him

Don't take it to heart. I've been labeled as a Palpatine fanboy simply for defending him. He has such a low reputation around here, hence why I defend him so much. Yoda is actually my personal favorite character, but everyone likes Yoda here - and holds him in high esteem, where he should be.

And why the hell not? Do you have any idea how idiotic this thread is?

"Vader was also big time strong-like...eighty percent of Sidious, but he gets a lot of crap...mostly because he fought in an era when CGI didn't exist..."

OT Sidious according to a statement released by Lucas who is even worse then Kreia, he makes statements all the time... OT Sidious does not even come close to DE Sidious. Stop using double standards already. DE Sidious was very powerful everybody agrees, but even he wasn't the most powerful ever and his powers that are shown take time to prepare.

Vader has nothing to do with DE Sidious or Sidious for that matter. Because 80% means nothing. He could have 80% of the raw power, but only 10% of the knowledge and the skill or 80% of the raw power and be far more skilled.

You know something Fishy? You're wrong: You don't outweigh the creator's word. And what's the difference between DE and OT Sidio-OH THAT'S RIGHT! There isn't one! DE Sidious is just where he USES his power!

Whereas you have NOTHING Revan ever did to compare. Or Sadow. Or Kun. Go on, show me one thing that compared to masking oneself from the Jedi for decades. Go on.

You know why DE Sidious was more powerful? Because he was in EU.

And none of your post had anything to do with the thread.

I agree. Lightsnake, keep the Sidious campaign thing to this thread. In fact - you should've made a thread entitled as such. There's no need to go around and promote on every thread.

Oops, I meant Fishy's post.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Oops, I meant Fishy's post.

I didn't. But I do think that Lightsnake would give some incredible points if he'd not be so arrogant. He has a lot of promise.

Ah, okay.

I share his views (technically, I had the views beforehand but didn't know how to go about them, or if anyone would care in this ridiculous place...).

Fine....Blind Guardian's had a bad effect on me. I promise to tone it down now

Escape, you have to understand what the board is like from where we're from. It's really vicious at times with many skilled debaters with vast knowledge of the SW universe. Hell, you haven't even met Darthlampe yet, that guy is insane. He'll take a seemingly mundane quote and analyze it till it seems to mean exactly what he needs it to. Oh yeah, since we came from a gaming centered website, we deal with KOTOR fanboys all the time, which is why Light may be a little short with them at times.

Ah, that's neat.

Death to KOTOR fanboys!

Originally posted by SnakeEyes
Well, let's be honest Ush; you are kinda biased towards the movies.

What a nonsensical statement!

I don't actually officially represent the movies in any way, so all that can actually be said in this direction is that I like the movies more.

And if we follow that logic as worh mentioning, then we are ALL biased, one way or another. Should then all opinions be so criticised?

If I actually had some vested interest in promoting the movies, then saying I am biased as a reason to discount my opinion might be relevant.

But I don't, and hence my opinion is just as good as anyone else's.

As it is, I dislike in general the concept of power trumping- the lazy device where all you can do dramatically, sometimes, is create something more powerful than before. This isn't actually a problem except when done rapidly, and plenty of franchises (mostly in comic books) have made such errors over time.

But so has the Star Wars EU- from Death Star to Galaxy Gun, from Emperor to Emperor+, from Luke to Super NJO Luke, Star Wars EU is plagued by simple power inflation.

KOTOR has a person who can destroy three powerful Jedi Masters with a thought. Whether I prefer the movies or not, I think a person's judgment would be hghly impaired not to see this is a serious over-powerment issue.

Kreia's attack there does have....debate around it, though. She seems to cut them off from the Force rather than anything else and the shock it kills them.

That said, KOTOR II did have some ego issues.
"Hahaha, Malak? He was a brute and a fool....look at Sion here!"
"You think that Tarisian Crime Lord was bad? He was a PEON to Go-To!"

The reasoning behind her silly attack isn;t the point, it is what it conceptually does.

KOTOR seems to have this desperate necessity to push boundaries on all sides- the most powerful Sith, the most powerful Jedi, the most powerful force ability... I know Star Wars tends to be about hyperbole by default, but some moderation would help the plots very much; KOTOR II tripped over itself all the time trying to be clever. If everything is always the greatest and the best, the concept loses its power.

Eh, not all the time, which is why I loved Jerec of Dark Forces...he's a small timer trying to become more powerful.

But I do see your point and agree very much

I did say KOTOR and not all SW computer games. JK just had a bunch of Dark Siders- fair enough. Personality counts far more than sheer power in a good villain. The 'Jedi graveyard of ultimate power' might have been a bit of a cop out but it was thematically SW like.

I don't consider Ruusan a cop out truly, it's one of the most important parts of SW lore.

KOTOR annoys me so much for the constant one upping and Revan, I really dislike Revan now

Well, the whole concept of becoming superpowered by some place you find is a very EU/computer gamey thing that I dislike- Sidious never feels the need to indulge in such cheap stuff.

Besides, the Jedi Graveyard vibe is rather buggered up by the PT; always a risk the EU took.

How did Ruusan get banged up by the PT, exactly? Personally, I blame Veitch and Anderson for the whole thing....one reason why I love Sidious and Tyranus is they don't need flashy light shows to show they're strong...when Sidious HAS to, he will, but he's not flashy...just imagine...

*"Gooooood.....A pooowerful Sith you will become!!!" *Spins around several times, lightning demolishes a building
"From henceforth you will be known as Darth...." *Pauses to leaps around Anakin, blowing up several droids. "VADER!!!!" *Lightning blasts out of every one of Palp's orifices, ripping the senate apart.

Because the graveyard made an assumption that the Jedi ghost trick, and general presence after death for Jedi, was normal.

And the PT hammered that nail down hard- it ain't.

Indeed, but the graveyard of Ruusan wasn't a ghost thing...it was their spirits trapped there by a Sith thought bomb

I can't help thinking we are talking at cross purposes here.

Nevermind. Point still remains- power inflation is an EU problem, and places that superpower people when they go near (witness JK IIs sudden army of force powered sabre users... gah...) are an issue also.

I blame Kyber crystals...

Ever read the Kyle Katarn novellas? Shed light on a lotta issues there

Originally posted by Ushgarak
What a nonsensical statement!

I don't actually officially represent the movies in any way, so all that can actually be said in this direction is that I like the movies more.

And if we follow that logic as worh mentioning, then we are ALL biased, one way or another. Should then all opinions be so criticised?

If I actually had some vested interest in promoting the movies, then saying I am biased as a reason to discount my opinion might be relevant.

But I don't, and hence my opinion is just as good as anyone else's.

As it is, I dislike in general the concept of power trumping- the lazy device where all you can do dramatically, sometimes, is create something more powerful than before. This isn't actually a problem except when done rapidly, and plenty of franchises (mostly in comic books) have made such errors over time.

But so has the Star Wars EU- from Death Star to Galaxy Gun, from Emperor to Emperor+, from Luke to Super NJO Luke, Star Wars EU is plagued by simple power inflation.

KOTOR has a person who can destroy three powerful Jedi Masters with a thought. Whether I prefer the movies or not, I think a person's judgment would be hghly impaired not to see this is a serious over-powerment issue.

I was referring more to your first comment, hence why I only quoted that part. You said you never believed that older SW characters were more powerful; but you can't really argue with fact now can we? The older characters, in general, WERE more powerful than say, the prequel era Jedi/Sith.

I said you were biased because in a decent amount of the threads you post in, (mostly any SW versus), you seem to keep the movie characters in higher regard when comparing them to any EU character.

I do agree with you when you say that they overdo it sometimes, because they do. Some characters ARE ridiculously overpowered, but not all of them.

"I said you were biased because in a decent amount of the threads you post in, (mostly any SW versus), you seem to keep the movie characters in higher regard when comparing them to any EU character."

See, to this, just read my entire post above again. I like the movie characters more. Accusing me of bias on this basis is worthles-s I can just accuse anyone who likes EU characters more of bias in the other direction. Your accusation of bias is only valid if you can say I have a vested interest in it being so, which I don't- again. it's just my opinion.

And what I said is that I have never believed anything that made out that they used to be more powerful- as in, anything that makes out they are... is wrong.

Wait, so you're saying that any EU material which portrays characters (before the PT/OT) as more powerful is wrong?

Well, not literally speaking like that, as if as soon as anyone might be considered more competent than a PT Jedi/Sith then it immdeiately becomes incorrect.

But any EU that propogates the idea that, conceptually, force users used to be more powerful... yes, I believe that is in contradiction of GL and therefore wrong.

After reading this thread , and being an x-box owner I'm left with one question . Is KOTOR worth buying or not ???

And will people stop using so many acronyms ???

Gah! KOTOR is just some Game! It isn't even Canon!

*Awaiting flood of KOTOR Fanboys to come and Eat him...*

Originally posted by Clone-pilot
After reading this thread , and being an x-box owner I'm left with one question . Is KOTOR worth buying or not ???

And will people stop using so many acronyms ???

It's a fair enough game- hardly a waste of money.

Room for improvement though.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I can't help thinking we are talking at cross purposes here.

Nevermind. Point still remains- power inflation is an EU problem, and places that superpower people when they go near (witness JK IIs sudden army of force powered sabre users... gah...) are an issue also.

I blame Kyber crystals...

100% agree.

Originally posted by Clone-pilot
After reading this thread , and being an x-box owner I'm left with one question . Is KOTOR worth buying or not ???

And will people stop using so many acronyms ???

Kotor I was one of the best games I ever played, definately worth your time. Kotor II...meh it had a few good parts.

i know revan is good, but we simply do not know enough about him to give him uber confidence.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Kotor I was one of the best games I ever played, definately worth your time. Kotor II...meh it had a few good parts.

But since I have neither game would you recommend I buy KOTOR II or start with the first , because one thing I usually find is that sequals have at least a few improvements on the original (in games land that is, this rule does not apply to movies ) .

I agree with Ushgarak, much of EU was over the top, including KOTOR 2 unfortunately.

But I still consider KOTOR 1 the best RPG ever and hold it in higher regard than movies- plot is actually better than most of PT, and nothing can beat great interactive movie that KOTOR actually is- both great story and game.

If you have the money and are willing to get addicted to a video game, buy KOTOR, it's a lot of fun. Most of the enemies you can just walk right over though, it's pretty easy. It is also really good as far as customizing your character goes. You would have fun with it.

I reserved both games beat them 5 - 10 times each and now in process(xbox) trying to get mod saves to see peoples work. Now I know mod saves is a bad idea to say on these forums but come on.

KOTOR was good, but the best RPG ever? Hell no, that's Suikoden 2!
I liked KOTOR a lot, but at times it was just a generic RPG with an SW polish

Now if your a crazed fan you'd know why storyline doesnt mean crap to me. I used to have drawers and cabinets full of star wars action figures lightsabers and toys. I actually got about 2500 for the whole thing but thats just what I am a SW fan but only to movie and games books is just too much SW knoledge

Originally posted by Clone-pilot
But since I have neither game would you recommend I buy KOTOR II or start with the first , because one thing I usually find is that sequals have at least a few improvements on the original (in games land that is, this rule does not apply to movies ) .

If your only getting one then definately get kotor I. Its true kotor II has a few improvements but its mostly cosmetic stuff, kotor I is the more rewarding experience.

That isn't entirely true KotOR 2 is great just not a LONG enough storyline but its fine

Originally posted by Lightsnake
KOTOR was good, but the best RPG ever? Hell no, that's Suikoden 2!
I liked KOTOR a lot, but at times it was just a generic RPG with an SW polish

Heh I have to disagree, Morrowind is the best RPG ever.(Soon to be Oblivion)

OMG You are all fool what is wrong with you You have betrayed SW with some shit I never heard of besides Morrowind and IMo that games a piece of crap

The KOTOR force-users aren't quite as powerful as TOTJ force-users. I'm not even going to get into the pre-TOTJ force-users such as Tulak Hord.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Ah, that's neat.

Death to KOTOR fanboys! Hey, I like KOTOR.

Originally posted by Darth Hawkeye
OMG You are all fool what is wrong with you You have betrayed SW with some shit I never heard of besides Morrowind and IMo that games a piece of crap

Wtf? lol...

If you were serious actually play the game before saying its crap, and if you did and still thought it was crap its probably because your a noob at RPGS and got owned...(It happens to alot of people dont feel bad)

GAHH i want KOTOR 3, and play kotor one or two that explains every thing